WoWInsider.com & Xzin

[DarkslayrX]

Check it out....

http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/04/04/wow-insider-show-special-multiboxing-edition-this-weekend-with/

Xzin Edit: Link to podcast: http://www.vimeo.com/864164

[Tonuss]

One of the tags is "cheaters." :rolleyes:

[Majestic_Clown]

WoW Great Find!

Saturday at 3:30pm EST over at WoW Radio.
What time is that EST and where is the link to wow radio?!?

Xzin, shotgun on a shoutout :D

[Bongohead]

He's just another whiner...

[Skuggomann]

im so lisening to that XD

[Eteocles]

I told you guys they were gonna do a Multiboxer episode soon, like last week :p Tomorrow's gonna be an interesting afternoon...I'm gonna have to make sure I remember somehow so I can bitch at them live instead of post-show.

And yeah, their comments last week were not particularly in favor of it, so Vyn if you can make plans to intercept them and maybe get a direct PM line via IRC or something that would be helpful so they don't go spouting uninformed stupidity all day and people get the wrong idea until a followup show if any

[Djarid]

EST is GMT-5 so European Summer Time -7

22:30 I guess
21:30 in UK

[DarkslayrX]

WoW Great Find!

Saturday at 3:30pm EST over at WoW Radio.
What time is that EST and where is the link to wow radio?!?

Xzin, shotgun on a shoutout :D
http://wcradio.com/shows.php?selectShow=81

[bodefeld]

My alarm clock is set so I don't miss this one!
Xzin, be our hero - once again.
Good luck!

[Eteocles]

Also, could someone copy and paste the OP's article if they wouldn't mind please? I can't read it at work and feel a little in the dark as to why Xzin is involved :p

[Tehtsuo]

Good luck Xzin, although personally I wouldn't be caught dead on that show. He's made his point of view clear, and I assume you know that it's going to be a debate, but if it were me I'd say "Why should I argue with this guy, he's attacking my play style to get attention." He makes his intentions clear right in this line: "But I, Mike Schramm, personally have always been quite against the idea of multiboxing." He only has one thing in mind: making a name for himself. I got a distinct Michael Moore vibe from him. (My apologies for referencing politics, but even most of M.M.'s supporters will admit he has some level of personal gain in mind when creating his documentaries.)

Plus, am I the only one that laughed about the part about his coworker coming on the show two, who has "actually multiboxed two characters at a time." I bet he had two computers and just hit some buttons on his second keyboard to control, nowhere near the type of complexity as most people in this community deal with. I could be wrong, but still would be very surprised to hear this Adam Holisky guy say "Yeah, I use Keyclone."

All that being said, my proverbial rainbow after the thunderstorm is the fact that Xzin will be there, who I consider perfectly able to speak as my representative. Good luck Xzin!

[Tehtsuo]

Also, could someone copy and paste the OP's article if they wouldn't mind please? I can't read it at work and feel a little in the dark as to why Xzin is involved :pWoW Insider Show: Special multiboxing edition this weekend with guest Xzin
Posted Apr 4th 2008 10:29AM by Mike Schramm ('http://www.wowinsider.com/bloggers/mike-schramm')
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion ('http://www.wowinsider.com/category/analysis-opinion/'), Podcasting ('http://www.wowinsider.com/category/podcasting/'), WoW Insider Business ('http://www.wowinsider.com/category/wow-insider-business/'), WoW Insider Show ('http://www.wowinsider.com/category/wow-insider-show/')

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.wowinsider.com/media/2008/04/xzins-bwl-1-%28custom%29.jpgMultiboxing ('http://www.wowinsider.com/2006/12/15/interview-with-xzin-the-man-with-ten-arms/') -- we've mentioned it quite ('http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/07/06/multiboxing-madness/') a few ('http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/07/19/all-you-needed-to-know-about-multiboxing/') times ('http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/08/07/multiboxing-in-formation-with-xzin/') here on WoW Insider, and it's always been a controversial subject ('http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/07/06/should-multiboxing-be-illegal/'). While the game is quite clearly not designed around players playing multiple characters at once, Blizzard has stated that they have no problem with it ('http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/03/13/blue-poster-belfaire-explains-blizzards-stance-on-multiboxing/') -- as long as people are paying for each account they use, and not using third-party programs to control their characters, Blizzard is fine with it.

But I, Mike Schramm, personally have always been quite against the idea of multiboxing. Lots of folks have used macros and programming to control multiple characters all the way up to level 70 and beyond, and some have even taken teams of characters into PvP areas to win battlegrounds and gain honor, or even win the arena seasons, and all the rewards that come with that victory. In my opinion, that's a horrible mockery of the way the game was designed -- this is a social game that is meant to be played with other players, and to pit one person with five computers against a real-life team of five people just isn't fair or interesting. Sure, you might be able to control the movements of five characters with skilled programming and control, but the other team has to coordinate five human minds all together, a much harder and more interesting act, in my personal opinion. I am firmly against multiboxing -- it's not the way this game is meant to be played at all, and while Blizzard may be content to make more money off of someone paying for many accounts, I'm not content to be stuck in a game with them.

Which is why, this Saturday on the WoW Insider Show ('http://wcradio.com/shows.php?selectShow=81') over on WoW Radio (at 3:30pm EST), our guest will be Xzin ('http://www.wowinsider.com/2006/12/15/interview-with-xzin-the-man-with-ten-arms/'), one of the most notorious (and popular) multiboxers the game has ever seen.

Yes, this Saturday, Xzin and I will go head-to-head on the podcast to talk about multiboxing, its legality (or lack thereof), and how and why it's used in the World of Warcraft. You couldn't find two people on further sides of this issue, so we'll be sure to have some interesting debate on the subject. Turpster will also be along as always (to act as moderator, if we need him), and WoW Insider's Adam Holisky will be on board as well. Adam tells me that he has actually multiboxed two characters at a time, so he'll have another voice in the argument also.

Whether you're for or against multiboxing (or whether this is the first you've heard of it), definitely be sure to tune in on Saturday at 3:30pm EST over at WoW Radio. We'll also be in the IRC channel, #wowradio at mmo.irc.com, and you can email the show at theshow@wowinsider.com ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/mailto:theshow@wowinsider.com') if you have any questions you'd like to ask myself, Xzin, or any of us on the show about mulitboxing or anything else.

It's sure to be a spirited and interesting debate about one of the most controversial subjects in MMO gaming. Definitely tune in and check the show out this weekend.Tags: adam-holisky ('http://www.wowinsider.com/tag/adam-holisky/'), cheaters ('http://www.wowinsider.com/tag/cheaters/'), debate ('http://www.wowinsider.com/tag/debate/'), multiboxing ('http://www.wowinsider.com/tag/multiboxing/'), multiple-characters ('http://www.wowinsider.com/tag/multiple-characters/'), turpster ('http://www.wowinsider.com/tag/turpster/'), wow-insider-show ('http://www.wowinsider.com/tag/wow-insider-show/'), wow-radio ('http://www.wowinsider.com/tag/wow-radio/'), xzin ('http://www.wowinsider.com/tag/xzin/')

[Eteocles]

Jesus freaking christ so much bias and ignorant stupidity in that post I want to punch him lol...he goes with the classic "welp blizz makes extra money off it, that's the only reason they don't mind it"...goddamn stupid fucker UGGGGH lol; we're a minority compared to TEN FUCKING MILLION, what's banning a couple hundred accounts gonna do? That's probably a week's worth of coffee and donuts at the GM office in Texas at worst

[Crucial]

How has multiboxing been debated and handled in the past with other MMORPG's and game companies? Would be good ammo to have in a debate I would think.

[Tonuss]

The debate is usually based around PvP, with very few people worrying about how it affects PvE. Some people do try to find angles for criticizing its use in PvE but these tend to be weak. The whole "this isn't how the game was intended to be played" bit is an example-- there are many ways in which players change the way the game is played, and as long as they aren't breaking any rules it's possible that the designer will incorporate those player-driven changes into the game. An example being the way enhancement shaman off-hand weapons are itemized. Shaman found that slow weapons were better for DPS, and Blizzard has added slow off-hand weapons to the game.

It goes the same for most other PvE-related arguments.

But if you notice most of the complaint threads on the WoW forums, they usually are started by someone who got ganked 5-on-1 by a multiboxer and they're very angry about it. Most of them are upset because they figure they just got griefed by a cheater or bot, while others understand what happened and are angry over the unfairness of one person having five characters at their disposal. But once you work past the anger, most of their issues are also pretty weak and require that they bend and twist facts and logic, sometimes a lot.

[Toned]

When this show airs I expect links people ! I won't be watching the live stream, but an achieve link will be fine ^^

[Diamndzngunz]

Ohhh no's this should be interesting. Maybe we will see his set up now.

[Vyndree]

And yeah, their comments last week were not particularly in favor of it, so Vyn if you can make plans to intercept them and maybe get a direct PM line via IRC or something that would be helpful so they don't go spouting uninformed stupidity all day and people get the wrong idea until a followup show if any

Aye, aye, captain!

Xzin - be sure to emphasize the pve component of multiboxing. It's very hard to argue that multiboxing a heroic and/or raid is an "unfair advantage" and/or "cheating" -- most people only complain about pvp because they end up on the wrong side of a 1v5 so it's easy for them to empathize with the "cheating" aspect. Throw in the complexity of pve encounters which are clearly character-capped and they shut right up.


EDIT: btw, I had to throw in the obligatory ZOMG WE GET TO HEAR THE ELUSIVE XZIN'S VOICE?!

[Maat]

I'd still say Vyndree getting interviewed would be better, or Ellay. Not saying Xzin will let us down just my two cents.

[PyrostasisTDK]

I got nothing against Xzin, but Vyndree is like our own Lobby group. I have no doubt she would own them in an argument... and as an added bonus, sound nicer than Xzin =)

[Vyndree]

I got nothing against Xzin, but Vyndree is like our own Lobby group. I have no doubt she would own them in an argument... and as an added bonus, sound nicer than Xzin =)

Erm, I don't think I have quite teh PR oomph as Xzin or Ellay. Xzin's done a great job representing us thus far. My only concern is that I hope he's fiddled around with BC enough that he knows how to argue for the state of the game as it exists now, not as it existed pre-BC. :) I'm sure he'll do fine -- and I'm looking forward to getting to hear what he sounds like IRL since he's been so elusive with anything RL related (RL pics, setup pics, etc).

[Eteocles]

While I would also approve of Vyn and/or Suv being interview I do think Zin's quite capable of handling himself...and with how secretive Zin is about his real life it'll be quite interesting to hear him on netradio :p

Shit that's right...he hasn't played much of BC and we had a long-ass argu-discussion in IRC about how Outland bosses are/are not tougher than the pre-bc bosses...and everything he gave was simply listing abilities off bosskillers or something and saying "oh that's easy" lol

[Gurblash]

Zin is pretty well versed in theorycraft and has more time than most of us to read up on it. I'm gonna say he'll do just fine and bring enough information to the table. I imagine he's pretty well organized for this.

[Tonuss]

Anyone who tries to argue against multiboxing by applying it to specific expansions or content is not actually addressing the issue of multiboxing. If the radio discussion comes down to "but you don't know enough about tBC content, it changes things" or something similar, then you're in for a pointless discussion IMO.

[Nepida]

Anyone who tries to argue against multiboxing by applying it to specific expansions or content is not actually addressing the issue of multiboxing. If the radio discussion comes down to "but you don't know enough about tBC content, it changes things" or something similar, then you're in for a pointless discussion IMO.

I think the point is that pvp has been greatly emphasized in BC, specifically 2-5 man pvp.

[Eteocles]

Read:
Blizz: /target Warhammer
Blizz: /cower
Warhammer: KEK /flex

[DarkslayrX]

The traffic on this site may have a nice spike on Saturday if Xzin gets a dual-boxing.com plug in there.

Was thinking and became curious what others thought - do you think that the added attention is good / bad for boxing? I am on the fence seeing it as something that Blizz has done limited to address in the past (until Vyndree's recent forum campaigns), but may have to if enough of a stink is made. What I am worried it is the squeeky wheel that gets the grease (a common thing with nerfs/buffs to classes) - If enough people complain, do you think Blizz will react with stricter rules related to boxing? - like no keyclone? No X? (Which would take me from a quin-boxer to a dual-boxer pretty quick). Or, does the added attention help air "our" side enough to explain how we are not gold farmers, bots, etc... What do you think? (Be great if we could create user polls on the site).

[Ellay]

Xzin handles himself very profressional, he'll be fine in the podcast :)

As for the attention the site gets, it's more about educating others. Once you view the forums here you quickly realize there is no cheating / botting going on, the more this type of information is solicited to others the more accepted dual-boxing becomes. We really aren't doing anything wrong :) it's just breaking that perception of wrong doing.

[keyclone]

and not using third-party programs to control their charactersa nit pick... one that people get stuck on....
but Blizzard is good with 3rd party programs .. so long as they do not AUTOMATE game play

edit: fixed quote origin.. sorry Tehtsuo :D

[Tehtsuo]

and not using third-party programs to control their charactersa nit pick... one that people get stuck on....
but Blizzard is good with 3rd party programs .. so long as they do not AUTOMATE game playlol take my name off that quote :P I was posting the article for people here. If you want a quote from me, use the one I posted in defense of multiboxing on my battlegroup's forum:


In actuality, most 3rd party software is not against the TOS. Your operating system is considered 3rd party software, as are the drivers for your keyboard and mouse, yet they are perfectly acceptable to use in conjunction with World of Warcraft. Only third party software which automates the game is prohibited by the terms of service. Feel free to read this very informative post made by Velath, and answered by Belfaire.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5288579356&sid=1

[Tonuss]

I think the added traffic and attention will be good for this site and multiboxing, as it might get more people to try it out, and it may help to overcome the concerns that some people have. People who are dead set against it won't change their minds, but they are not the people that you want to reach-- you want to reach people who might enjoy multiboxing and people who want to be reassured that it isn't something evil.

Blizzard will only take action against it if they feel it has become a problem that is too big to ignore, and we're not even at the "it's a problem" stage. They admitted that they would not hesitate to drop their support for multiboxing if they felt they needed to, but that they really couldn't imagine having to do so. Keep in mind that for every Ellay, there are a dozen or more Tonusses, who can't PvP our way out of a paper bag with one, five, or twenty characters on at a time. Same from the PvE angle as well.

I don't think that there is any danger at all of Blizzard deciding not to allow multiboxing.

[Skuggomann]

EDIT: btw, I had to throw in the obligatory ZOMG WE GET TO HEAR THE ELUSIVE XZIN'S VOICE?!

EXACTLY wat i thougt wen i read this post XD

[Poolboy]

I picture a low, sensual Barry White.

[Team Squishee]

I picture a low, sensual Barry White.

I am going for Sheldon from 'Big Bang Theory'

j/k Xzin - Give em hell tomorrow :thumbup:

[Eteocles]

The bastard's gonna try to use a voice changer =\

Xzin: Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :)

[PyrostasisTDK]

yeah totally going to use a voice modulator to protect the guilt....err innocent.

[opt]

stick it to the man zin!
ohh and give me a shoutout pleeeeease

[bodefeld]

For those of you outside North America getting confused with time zones and daylight saving time, there is an actual countdown till the show starts. You can find it on the right side of
http://wcradio.com/

Cheers!

[Vyndree]

We've got a few people in my vent as well:

Server: sandiego.ventriloservers.biz
Port: 3860
Password: nether


I lied. We've now taken over WarcraftRadio's public vent...
Adrress: vent2.ugt-servers.com
Port: 10024
Password: publicvent
Channel: Gaming 1

[tigger2577]

wow I jsut got baned from that server guess I will jsut have to go with out the Warcraft Raido's vent that is



got back on

[Vyndree]

http://vboxing.net/blog/webs.php/2008/04/05/wowinsider-interviews-xzin#more173

(10:52:04 AM) Milkingit: i'd love to see someone do a full Kara run with keyclone
(10:52:19 AM) Milkingit: yeah actually im proposing this fall
(10:52:20 AM) Milkingit: lol
(10:52:22 AM) Vyndree: psh a bat does just nicely
(10:52:34 AM) Drayth: it's not as elegant or painful though
(10:52:37 AM) Vyndree: a full 10-man kara?
(10:52:42 AM) Vyndree: 1 person 10 chars?
(10:52:48 AM) Vyndree: not possible, imo
(10:52:53 AM) Drayth: we've had 2 people 5 chars each do it
(10:53:00 AM) Drayth: dunno how far they got
(10:53:23 AM) Vyndree: drayth
(10:53:26 AM) Vyndree: uhh
(10:53:31 AM) Vyndree: we got to opera
(10:53:34 AM) Vyndree: curator was bugged
(10:54:01 AM) osaka: Vyndree: you raiding atm?
(10:54:04 AM) Milkingit: Thats amazing
(10:54:12 AM) Vyndree: atm? on my main or multiboxed?
(10:54:15 AM) Milkingit: like i said i know Tremor on Uldaman has 9 toons
(10:54:17 AM) osaka: at the moment
(10:54:23 AM) Drayth: bugged?
(10:54:24 AM) osaka: like, now
(10:54:28 AM) Milkingit: one of each class and he attacks alliance towns with them
(10:54:29 AM) Vyndree: not really, i've been raiding with my prot pally to get her some tank gear
(10:54:34 AM) Vyndree: but the shammies are gathering arena points
(10:54:48 AM) Vyndree: and we haven't really gone in to 2-man it again cuz when we do it again I want my tank geared enough to tank prince
(10:55:21 AM) Vyndree: right now she's awfully undergeared.
(10:55:29 AM) keyclone: milkin, you using the maximizer feature?
(10:55:31 AM) Drayth: LOL
(10:55:45 AM) Milkingit: no right now i am dualboxing, manually
(10:55:51 AM) Milkingit: i havent used any software atm
(10:55:57 AM) Milkingit: its Druid tanks, mangle
(10:56:03 AM) Milkingit: alt tab to hunter
(10:56:03 AM) Drayth: what the heck...why did we get banned from the public vent?
(10:56:06 AM) Milkingit: autoshot sent pet
(10:56:10 AM) keyclone: banned??
(10:56:15 AM) keyclone: for what?
(10:56:18 AM) Vyndree: ya I did too...
(10:56:19 AM) keyclone: noobs
(10:56:20 AM) Vyndree: banned for reason ""
(10:56:29 AM) Los: :(
(10:56:40 AM) Wihl [asdf@MMOIRC-2CA181D3.kund.kommunicera.umea.se] entered the room.
(10:56:41 AM) Walterion: noobs ?
(10:56:43 AM) Walterion: Where ?
(10:56:53 AM) Vyndree: in the public wcradio vent
(10:56:59 AM) KikiJiki: read the ventrilo rules in future when you join a server
(10:57:21 AM) Drayth: I did and didn't see any we broke...
(10:57:25 AM) InfiniteSquirrel left the room (quit: Ping timeout).
(10:57:40 AM) keyclone: ah.. i see.. so when there is a podcast eminent.. people shouldn't gather at the associated vent... advertised on the website... as public
(10:57:57 AM) osaka: no
(10:57:57 AM) keyclone: brilliant
(10:58:00 AM) Vyndree: chehe keyclone
(10:58:02 AM) Vyndree: *hehe
(10:58:03 AM) Los: heck its the same everywhere, you keep to the eula, but still get called a cheater :(
(10:58:14 AM) Vyndree: we werent' multiboxing the vent, los :P
(10:58:20 AM) Drayth: lol
(10:58:23 AM) Jerkin: see the multiboxers even break the eula on vent too
(10:58:28 AM) Drayth: but seriously kiki what rule did we break?
(10:58:33 AM) osaka: you're not supposed to use the vent for raiding
(10:58:34 AM) keyclone: well.. i have 2 ears.. so techniically i was dual-hearing
(10:58:40 AM) Los: who was raiding :P
(10:58:48 AM) keyclone: lol
(10:58:49 AM) Vyndree: we're not raiding?
(10:58:54 AM) Larink [cedwards@CF852CC2.A066C6FE.27182D97.IP] entered the room.
(10:58:58 AM) Los: raiding the cooky jar in a few minutes
(10:59:00 AM) KikiJiki: we were told you were raiding by someone else using it
(10:59:00 AM) keyclone: someone mentioned they were raiding while waiting
(10:59:03 AM) Vyndree: we were talking about how I raidED karazhan with suvega... as in... a long time ago
(10:59:08 AM) keyclone: 'we'... peopelo in the vent... are not raiding
(10:59:08 AM) Drayth: that person lied to you then
(10:59:17 AM) Vyndree: as in the videos on my blog
(10:59:19 AM) Vyndree: as in multiboxing karazhan
(10:59:21 AM) Drayth: we were having random chat :p
(10:59:26 AM) Vyndree: GG context
(10:59:30 AM) keyclone: haters... typical.
(10:59:38 AM) wowradio914 [wowradio@MMOIRC-2ACA8A34.ipt.aol.com] entered the room.
(10:59:46 AM) KikiJiki: your bans are being removed now
(10:59:48 AM) Drayth: most of us don't even play on the same SERVER
(10:59:50 AM) keyclone: i farted... was that covered in the tos?
(10:59:51 AM) Drayth: let alone raid in the first place
(10:59:52 AM) Walterion: Stop Freaking whining.
(10:59:53 AM) wowradio914 is now known as Nastro
(11:00:01 AM) Walterion: You got unbanned, there.
(11:00:01 AM) Los: lets raid on the ptr's
(11:00:04 AM) keyclone left the room (Kicked by KikiJiki (whiners...typical)).
(11:00:07 AM) Drayth: ty :p
(11:00:20 AM) Walterion: You keep Whining, you get kicked from here.
(11:00:21 AM) Walterion: Got it ?
(11:00:23 AM) Vyndree: next time would be nice if you actually got proof of rule breakage before random ban-age
(11:00:23 AM) Milkingit: this is gonna be a fun debate, i can see it now
(11:00:26 AM) Chris: Bans removed, dont be looking like a raid again
(11:00:35 AM) InfiniteSquirrel [InfiniteSq@MMOIRC-3E4584A4.geab-046-1.ephone.se] entered the room.
(11:00:48 AM) Drayth: try asking or checking first next time :p
(11:00:49 AM) Vyndree: uh, we're multiboxers
(11:00:50 AM) Los: how do you look like a raid
(11:00:52 AM) Vyndree: we always look like a raid
(11:00:56 AM) Los: haha
(11:01:02 AM) Drayth: we're just sticking together to chat before the wow insider show lol
(11:01:03 AM) Larink left the room.
(11:01:16 AM) Walterion: Keep going the trash talk.
(11:01:36 AM) Vyndree: i'm not trash talking, hun. :) i think it's amusing
(11:02:01 AM) Los: show him the belly chain vyn, that would soften it up
(11:02:06 AM) Vyndree: so just to be clear
(11:02:10 AM) Walterion: Sigh.
(11:02:14 AM) Vyndree: should we stop talking about ever having multiboxed a raid?
(11:02:20 AM) homeboy left the room (quit: Ping timeout).
(11:02:21 AM) keyclone [keyclone@90488670.C0879E89.B349D97A.IP] entered the room.
(11:02:29 AM) Vyndree: or can we continue the conversation? Just clarifying
(11:02:33 AM) homeboy [homeboy@MMOIRC-E05AAD87.dhcp.inet.fi] entered the room.
(11:02:36 AM) Drayth: just let it go for now :p
(11:02:41 AM) Vyndree: okie dokie
(11:02:45 AM) Whoflungdu left the room (quit: Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com).
(11:02:48 AM) KikiJiki: Vyndree, let me break it down for you or else the ban will be back for being an ass
(11:02:57 AM) KikiJiki: you are ~10 people in a channel
(11:03:02 AM) KikiJiki: and admin is told to check you out
(11:03:09 AM) KikiJiki: the admin hears you talking about raiding
(11:03:11 AM) keyclone: hold on... let me get the lawyer online...<
(11:03:26 AM) Vyndree: i'm not being an ass, i'm asking an honest question. All I wanted was clarification -- thanks for obliging me, but I've been perfectly polite
(11:03:34 AM) mode (+b *!*@90488670.C0879E89.B349D97A.IP) by KikiJiki
(11:03:36 AM) Vyndree: so as a finale, thank you for clarification :)
(11:03:39 AM) keyclone left the room (Kicked by KikiJiki (you had a chance to play nicely)).
(11:04:00 AM) Walterion: Well, now kiki is Pissed off.
(11:04:15 AM) ***DeusEx yawns and nods
(11:04:17 AM) Zepheric: what they do?
(11:04:22 AM) Walterion: Seriously, don't piss off mods.
(11:04:26 AM) Zepheric: i CBA to read the past
(11:04:28 AM) Walterion: It will GREATLY help you.
(11:04:30 AM) Drayth: lol
(11:04:51 AM) Drayth: someone in here mentioned seeing a boxer do kara, we talk about the kara that was 2manned in the past, mass bans ensued
(11:04:51 AM) Zepheric: kiki u still a tales of fan?
(11:04:53 AM) Walterion: Zepheric: Sarcasm.
(11:04:54 AM) Drayth: without even checking first
(11:05:20 AM) Milkingit: actually it was me asking if anyone had boxed Kara
(11:05:25 AM) Drayth: yea
(11:05:26 AM) Milkingit: so its my fault :(
(11:05:27 AM) Vyndree: you're not allowed to talk about kara, Drayth. Drop the subject. :P It's not allowed
(11:05:28 AM) Drayth: naw :p
(11:05:35 AM) Zepheric: ahhh sarcasam does not flow very good through the intertubes
(11:05:51 AM) KikiJiki: Vyndree, you've already had a warning
(11:05:59 AM) Los: ow please
(11:06:00 AM) Los: relax
(11:06:00 AM) MoonWolf: SINDRIII!
(11:06:09 AM) Vyndree: i'm helping enforce the rules. When have I been impolite?
(11:06:18 AM) Drayth: let's just not talk lol


Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!

[bodefeld]

Wow, that was so peaceful.
Good job!

[yarr]

that was so hilarious vyn, thx for posting it!

[Skuggomann]

Hers a pic 4 ya Xzin:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f361/skuggomann/WOW/Xzin-interweve.jpg

[Bueller]

Anyone have a link to the show? I missed it.

[Xzin]

Hey Vyn - did your husband listen in too?

Link to show:

Link to WoW Insider Podcast ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=5812')

[Yamio]

(11:03:11 AM) keyclone: hold on... let me get the lawyer online...<
(11:03:39 AM) keyclone left the room (Kicked by KikiJiki (you had a chance to play nicely)).

I actually laughed when I saw keyclone's comment, then I was like 8| when I saw the kick. WTF was that for?? Having wit takes intelligence. Understanding and "getting" wit takes even more, which just proves those moderators were idiots. Funny part is this is all over a game. I don't know why but that doesn't make any damn sense to me, no matter how many ways I look at it.

gg keyclone, it's been years since I've been kicked out of a room that fast or that many times. I'm envious! :thumbsup:

[Yamio]

Xzin, just heard the podcast.

Masterful job. I take my hat off to you.

[Xzin]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. Hopefully I can get our small but vibrant community some more respect and recognition.

[Klamor]

wewt! xzin pwns! haha

was someone playing "Dead Rising" in the background? every once in a while i would hear the soundtrack from the title screen of that game and i would also hear the soundtrack for the title screen of WoW

good stuff IMO

[Bravo]

Well done, Mike clearly stated he was against all of this from the begging but I thought you were able to handle his ignorance fairly well... My favorite part which kept popping up is how he believes these 'macros' that we are using are making the game unfair.. I think we should tell people how to type /macro

[clesven]

NO; I DON'T KNOW

I'm sorry, but I felt like bashing my head in every time I heard that after 40 minutes, and there was a huge bomb of them around 42 minutes.

You know
You know
You know
You know
:P

[Yamio]

Well done, Mike clearly stated he was against all of this from the begging but I thought you were able to handle his ignorance fairly well... My favorite part which kept popping up is how he believes these 'macros' that we are using are making the game unfair.. I think we should tell people how to type /macro

Good point! The part where he spoke about macros we "download" was a not-so-subtle reference to botting. Ohh, like anybody can be up and multiboxing in a matter of minutes with little to no configuration just by downloading macros. I've been multiboxing for three months now and I'm still configuring my stuff.

None of you all ever pointed out the "download the easy buttons from here" website. An oversight I'm sure. :evil:

IMO he didn't seem to be listening to Xzin but thinking more along the lines of what he was going to be asking next. Hey, I understand working a live show is hectic and it has to keep moving no matter what, so I can forgive the "keep it moving" aspect, but I can't forgive that he wasn't listening as closely as he needed to. I think Xzin did a great job from being backed into a corner and having to fight his way out, because it seemed to me that's what they were trying to do, and they probably went in thinking they were going to do just that.

(Watching keyclone keep getting booted from the vent channel proved they all had the "we hate mulitboxers" mentality.)

My only hope is that someone out there heard the podcast and now that person's mind is a little more open to our community. Even if it only reaches one person will make me happy. Xzin, once again you did a beautiful job.

So, when are you going on Conan?

[Tdog]

It was very apparent how little he knew about multi-boxing prior to the show :) It's funny how people think we use something massively more complex than /assist focus /cast fireball macros. I mean yea we get a little bit more complex macros than that sure, but's its all just macros. You don't have to be a computer genius to figure it out. YET at the same time people think "Oh all you have to do is hit button 2 and you blow something up!" Well that's true AFTER we have everything set up. You got to get the toons all facing the same way, you got fears and stuns and everything else to worry about. Sometimes you don't even notice you lost a toon till its too late and you're dead :P

It's like they think the simple things are so hard and the hard things are so ez. They are all bass ackwards when it comes to wtf we are actually doing and just simply jump to conclusions.

Just today waiting for the boat some guy runs up and says"damn pwrlvlers" "multibox lamers"

I responsed "lol you dont even know what you're talking about do you?"
He responds "yea its good money when you sell them but its nooblets like you that ruin this game"

I responed "okay first off you might want to know what the jargon words you're using means b4 you actually say them :P power lvling is simply taking a character and leveling them up very quickly not even necessarily in the most efficent manner, multiboxing is controlling more than one character at a time, noob or nooblet is someone who is new to something whether it be a game, profession, group or community"

"So what you're really pissed off about isn't multiboxers or power levelers or even noobs like yourself. You're pissed off about people who sell toons and gold and make real money and profit in a game which in return takes away from your enjoyment of it. Which just so we are clear I am completely against that BS as well. I do not sell toons or gold nor have I ever bought either nor will I ever either."

"So don't simply jump to conclusions about that which you have no clue about."

He responds "w/e at least I have a life"

Another person on the boat responds " what life is that? annoying and harrasing ppl who were just minding their own damn business?"

As he rode off from the boat I simply said "Have a nice day :)"

[Xzin]

NO; I DON'T KNOW

I'm sorry, but I felt like bashing my head in every time I heard that after 40 minutes, and there was a huge bomb of them around 42 minutes.

You know
You know
You know
You know
:P

I know :) I can take a good ribbing :) And it's a bit deserved. Something to work on and improve.

[keyclone]

He responds "w/e at least I have a life"

Another person on the boat responds " what life is that? annoying and harrasing ppl who were just minding their own damn business?"

As he rode off from the boat I simply said "Have a nice day :)"next time, before he runs off... try to remind him you play the same game he does, and possibly spend less time getting more out of it.

and if that fails and he continues to spew on... unmute and type:

"Ni Hao"

from all 5 at once... in unison... to everything he says

it's not helpful, but would fry him anyhow in a nice way

oh, and don't forget to /target and /wave from all 5 and remind him that 'solo is the new gimp' :D

[Ughmahedhurtz]

An interesting interview, even if their constant attempts to weasel you into admitting some kind of automation got a bit boorish towards the last 1/3rd.

[PyrostasisTDK]

Was a good interview. I didnt like how he kept saying "Download macros"

Only other thing that ticked me off was the first part with the daoc stuff Team wizzy DIDNT have aoe stun, he had single target stun, and... there is no aoe silence in daoc... hell there is no silence at all.

Other than those two things great interview.

You know!

[khundawg]

Is this poscast being hosted anywhere other than Vimeo? I cant get that player to work and would love to hear the interview.

[opt]

Zin,
one thing i really liked about the interview is how you often referred to things as ... well anybody can do that.
Cought him out a few times and stuffed up his arguments.
Well multiboxers can go into arenas and loose 10 games a week and get epics.., well so can anybody else. I lol'd bigtime.

[Xzin]

Was a good interview. I didnt like how he kept saying "Download macros"

Only other thing that ticked me off was the first part with the daoc stuff Team wizzy DIDNT have aoe stun, he had single target stun, and... there is no aoe silence in daoc... hell there is no silence at all.

Other than those two things great interview.

You know!

I know :thumbsup:

There was AoE stun in EQ... and I could have sworn there was SOME kind of AoE stun he was using but it was specific to one "faction". I didn't play that much DAoC though so I could be wrong. Eitherway, he destroyed people :)

[Xzin]

Zin,
one thing i really liked about the interview is how you often referred to things as ... well anybody can do that.
Cought him out a few times and stuffed up his arguments.
Well multiboxers can go into arenas and loose 10 games a week and get epics.., well so can anybody else. I lol'd bigtime.

Lose 10 a week and they get gear faster than you anyway :) Not to mention minimum arena ratings..... etc.

[thinus]

Zin,
one thing i really liked about the interview is how you often referred to things as ... well anybody can do that.
Cought him out a few times and stuffed up his arguments.
Well multiboxers can go into arenas and loose 10 games a week and get epics.., well so can anybody else. I lol'd bigtime.

Lose 10 a week and they get gear faster than you anyway :) Not to mention minimum arena ratings..... etc.

The whole argument about gear was a bit silly to me. Gear is character/account specific and it takes a multi-boxer exactly the same time to aquire as a single boxing group. We do not magically get more gear because we multibox.

The main argument about PvP, however, was that a multi-boxer take rewards away from single-boxers. In other words, they do not feel it is fair that single boxers have to compete with multi-boxers for rewards. I can see their argument and empathize to a certain extent. I think anyone that goes up against Ellay will appreciate the other side of the coin.

The big question is whether 5 single boxing players with the same team setup (and skill) can achieve the same as Ellay or whether multi-boxing does give him an edge. Now I know all the arguments for and all the arguments against but at that level of play I assume every split second is important, it can mean the difference between a pally dying and getting his shield up in time. Will a 5 player team have the same coordination to burn that pally before he can realize he is the target and pop his shield?

The other problem is that counter teams for Ellay's combo exist but they are probably useless against the popular high end teams and won't rack up a rating high enough to fight Ellay.

If tremor totems nullify fear then it also nullifies one of our biggest weaknesses which is getting your team scattered.


But at the end of the day I think if your team is good enough to make the top 10 then you should be good enough to work out a strategy to give you a 50-50 against Ellay. You should be looking at Ellay's team as a challenge and earn your reward by beating them.

I think the system is broken anyway in that the top teams don't have to play to maintain their rankings. Do teams lose rating if they do not play at all in a given week?

[opt]

The big question is whether 5 single boxing players with the same team setup (and skill) can achieve the same as Ellay or whether multi-boxing does give him an edge. Now I know all the arguments for and all the arguments against but at that level of play I assume every split second is important, it can mean the difference between a pally dying and getting his shield up in time. Will a 5 player team have the same coordination to burn that pally before he can realize he is the target and pop his shield?
In theory, 5 seperate players can play the same as a boxer, if your other players setup commands like we do such as /cast [target=Ellaytarget] lightning bolt and everyones mashing it, in theory isnt that multiboxing emulated gameplay by 5 people?

[Team Squishee]

Of course non multi boxers could take the time and effort to 'download' all the macros we use such as /focus, /assist, /cast [target=Xzin] Ritual of Whine , if we actually made public the secret illegal macro download server we all use :wacko:

Maybe 5 separate players would have a little bit of lag between each chars spellcast if they co-ordinated their attacks thru vent/ts , compared to a multi boxer, but at the same time they have the ability to target a separate target each and use cc / debuffs on every member of a multi box team at the same time, the mobility to move every member of their team in different directions independently (jeez you would think the concept of moving out of LOS of 4 casters who all NEED to stand within a couple of yards of each other was a revolutionary idea)- things that multi-boxers cannot do.

Schramm didnt come across as hostile as i expected him to, but hell i would have expected him to have done a little bit of research - 'downloading macros' , 'taking spots in arena teams from single boxers' , 'exploiting the arena system by losing 10 games a week' - he came across as totally ignorant , at least his co-host (was it Duncor?) had attempted to dual box and had some knowledge of the subject.

At the end of the day it all comes down to one thing - we have the knowledge / ability to multi-task / skill / desire and most importantly real life disposable income to do something that they wish they could do too - it's a case of the green eyed monster every single time.

Edit: kudos to Xzin - you did really well considering that public speaking isn't your thing - Only criticism I can make is that you didnt say: (I am going to have another listen today as I may have missed it)

SOLO IS THE NEW GIMP!

[Nepida]

'taking spots in arena teams from single boxers'

I think he means Ellay, not multiboxers. I can tell you the only spots I am taking is in the high 1300 bracket :) There may be more higher level competitive arena players now, but my guess is it is still way less than 1 per server, _hardly_ something to use in an argument.


Good job on the interview :)

[Gallo]

Gah! I've been stuck unpacking in our new townhouse and I missed the podcast! I didn't even know there was one... my wife told me the internet was forbidden this weekend (for good reason, theres tons of shit to be put away).

I can't wait to get home from work and listen to this.

[Havelcek]

So I'm new to the community and really don't have any preconceived man-love for the posters here (yet ;) ) but I have to say that interview was pretty much a waste of time. The interviewer didn't seem to have more than a passing knowledge of the game industry and made all kinds of errors in comments about DAOC, EQ and WoW and how they work. I found that Xzin was basically asked for information that can be easily found on the dual-boxing Wiki and I would have been much more interested in hearing questions asked around the following subjects...

1) Xzin, what made you stop playing Warcraft as much?
2) What can you tell us about your setup and how has it evolved over time?
3) I [interviewer] talked to [XYZ] Blizzard employees for comments on multi-boxing, how would you respond to said comments?

Took me about 5 seconds to think about those. Could have been asked in way that didn't make it sound like he thought Xzin was a Chinese gold farmer running a sweatshop. Kudos to you for keeping your temper. :thumbup:

[Gallo]

So I'm new to the community and really don't have any preconceived man-love for the posters here (yet ;) ) but I have to say that interview was pretty much a waste of time. The interviewer didn't seem to have more than a passing knowledge of the game industry and made all kinds of errors in comments about DAOC, EQ and WoW and how they work. I found that Xzin was basically asked for information that can be easily found on the dual-boxing Wiki and I would have been much more interested in hearing questions asked around the following subjects...

1) Xzin, what made you stop playing Warcraft as much?
2) What can you tell us about your setup and how has it evolved over time?
3) I [interviewer] talked to [XYZ] Blizzard employees for comments on multi-boxing, how would you respond to said comments?

Took me about 5 seconds to think about those. Could have been asked in way that didn't make it sound like he thought Xzin was a Chinese gold farmer running a sweatshop. Kudos to you for keeping your temper. :thumbup:Oh, don't think for one second that the interviewer as giving a "fair" interview. I'm sure he was purposely giving questions like that so that his view of multiboxing could be enhanced. He has stated many times that he is against multiboxing and therefor is very biased.

[kllrwlf]

The interview was great! :thumbsup:

It's funny that just because 1 multiboxing team is able to hit the top 20 in Arena for that battlegroup, there is a fear that ALL multiboxers will be able to hit the top 20.

There are 13 battlegroups, top 20 for each = 260 Teams considered the top 20 for their respective battlegroups.

Ellay's team is only 0.38% of the top 20 population... and the ONLY multiboxer.

I think people should only worry if it's obvious that multiboxing is a guaranteed spot on the top 20... which it isn't... seeing that there is only 1 team in that spot... and not one in each battlegroup...

*Sigh*, I'm just hoping I don't go below the 1200 rating because I royally suck in Arena. ;(

[Nepida]

*Sigh*, I'm just hoping I don't go below the 1200 rating because I royally suck in Arena. ;(

I know its kinda pathetic, but I simply remake my team when I hit 1100 -_-; Though lately I've been more focused on pve and just keep my arena going for eventual loot.

[Havelcek]

Oh, don't think for one second that the interviewer as giving a "fair" interview. I'm sure he was purposely giving questions like that so that his view of multiboxing could be enhanced. He has stated many times that he is against multiboxing and therefor is very biased.Ahh I see....haven't read that far back through this thread....

[kllrwlf]

*Sigh*, I'm just hoping I don't go below the 1200 rating because I royally suck in Arena. ;(

I know its kinda pathetic, but I simply remake my team when I hit 1100 -_-; Though lately I've been more focused on pve and just keep my arena going for eventual loot.

I'm going to have to do the same thing... eventually I'll figure it out... or maybe I won't because my group makeup is just horrible in arena.

My mages are too squishy, they are the first to die... but it's always fun having my Paladin as the last one standing, then bubble, heal, heal to try to stay alive for another 15 seconds...

[PyrostasisTDK]

So I'm new to the community and really don't have any preconceived man-love for the posters here (yet ;) ) but I have to say that interview was pretty much a waste of time. The interviewer didn't seem to have more than a passing knowledge of the game industry and made all kinds of errors in comments about DAOC, EQ and WoW and how they work. I found that Xzin was basically asked for information that can be easily found on the dual-boxing Wiki and I would have been much more interested in hearing questions asked around the following subjects...

1) Xzin, what made you stop playing Warcraft as much?
2) What can you tell us about your setup and how has it evolved over time?
3) I [interviewer] talked to [XYZ] Blizzard employees for comments on multi-boxing, how would you respond to said comments?

Took me about 5 seconds to think about those. Could have been asked in way that didn't make it sound like he thought Xzin was a Chinese gold farmer running a sweatshop. Kudos to you for keeping your temper. :thumbup:Oh, don't think for one second that the interviewer as giving a "fair" interview. I'm sure he was purposely giving questions like that so that his view of multiboxing could be enhanced. He has stated many times that he is against multiboxing and therefor is very biased.I do gotta give him some credit though. Unlike some people in other media forms he actually admitted his bias so you knew what to expect.