"It's automation!!!"

[Tonuss]

It appears that the newest anti-multiboxing rallying cry is to claim that key broadcasting, particularly via programs such as keyclone, are automation, and therefore a ToS violation. The premise is that you're using one keypress to "do the job of many" keypresses. In Vyndree's thread on clarification of semantics (ironically enough) one poster tried to use the following definition:


Add in a 3rd party program. You press ONE button and all 5 screens react. How exactly is that fair/legit? It's not. The ability to control 5 computers at once with 1 single keyboard and 1 single press of a button is automation. The ability to make your characters cast their individual spells and skills at once by pressing 1 button is automation.

1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a minimum.

What has Blizzard stated regarding automation? From that same thread:



"Unlike the forms of botting you mentioned, multi-boxing requires user input and does not automate any aspect of gameplay. Each time an action is performed it is controlled by a real player sitting at their computer controlling multiple accounts. "
Aradek, Customer Service Member




"Is it sending an identical signal to all client windows or switching between them to send commands? Not automation.
Is it playing the game for you, or rather, for one of your client windows? Automation."
Belfaire, Blizzard Poster


Since people want to insert or invent their own definitions of what automation means, (or apply the wrong definition) the above responses make it clear. When Blizzard refers to automation, they are referring to automating actions within the game by means not available via the standard interface and macro system.

What does this mean? It means that the external means that you use-- be it a keyboard, mouse, multiplexer, keyclone, etc-- as long as it sends a single keypress/button click to a single instance of WoW at a time, is NOT AUTOMATION. If this was automation, then the in-game macro system itself would be a violation of the Terms of Service, since you can use a macro to combine keypresses (example, have it activate a trinket and then perform an ability or spell).

I repeat, any external means of directing input to an instance of WoW that does not automate actions within the game is NOT a ToS violation. So if you send a keypress to 100 instances of WoW and each of those instances receives that single keypress... it isn't a ToS violation. Don't get sidetracked by people who have basically found a new way to say "I don't care what Blizzard says, I make the rules!!!" They are going to try to argue the semantics of "automation" until their lips fall off, but because their premise is flawed, so are any of their arguments. Once you strip their arguments away, they will fall back on stating directly that "I don't care what Blizzard says, it's illegal!"

And at that point they can be safely ignored. Once they get to that point, they are practically admitting that they have run out of ways to try and make facts and logic fit their opinion, instead of the other way around.

Now to wait and see what new tactic they come up with...

[Majestic_Clown]

Hey dude,

You got the link to the new rally?

[Tonuss]

Yeah, it is this thread (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5288579356&sid=1) that Vyndree started. The latest whine is on page 14, response number 266 by Tourettes.

[Skuggomann]

Jubb i think as long as wow lives there will by mass whining about it :S

[Xaedra]

I had to reply to this one:

Q u o t e:
I have had the rather dubious pleasure of having to wait for over an hour in STV while some jerk running a 5 box of hunters or botting was grinding quest mobs. Refused to reply to any and all attempts at communication and just kept running around, killing everything that spawned before anyone else could get to them. They all moved identically, fired same at the time, in the same shot rotations, sent their pets out at the same time, etc.

In my humble thoughts, that did have a very negative and very real affect on my game play experience.


My response:

You get these jerks everywhere, not just in the multi-boxing community. I'm sorry that this person acted this way, but it doesn't mean all multi-boxers play like this. Don't look down on all of us because of something one multi-boxer did to you. Personally, if I see someone else questing in an area with a limited number of mobs, I'll come back later, or I'll stick to the big groups and leave the solo mobs alone. Doesn't matter if you're horde or alliance, I will not treat anyone like that.

So, please don't be so quick to judge the rest of us. We're not all jerks.

[Eteocles]

Don't forget to add "And lv70s ganking you constantly for hours on end doesn't impact your experience?" And somehow I doubt his "Attempts at communication" consisted of "Pardon me but would you mind leaving me a few mobs so I can finish my quest too? I'd appreciate it" but sounded more like "wtf cheater quit stealing all the mobs or i'll fukkin report u asshole" GM shows up later "ITS LEGAL CUZ HES NOT AUTOMATING ANYTHING STFU LOL" leading to the post you quoted :P

His problem is with dickheads, not boxers. A lv70 alone could sit and oneshot all his shit all day just as easily as a boxer on the quest as could a normal questing group. The person is a dick, boxer or not. It's like being pissed that a guy in a wheelchair is an asshole to you and bitching because he's in the wheelchair, not because he was a dick.

[@Ang@]

I'd appreciate it" but sounded more like "wtf cheater quit stealing all the mobs or i'll fukkin report u asshole" GM shows up later "ITS LEGAL CUZ HES NOT AUTOMATING ANYTHING STFU LOL" leading to the post you quoted :P

i loled irl here :P thanks :D

[Tonuss]

His problem is with dickheads, not boxers.Yeah, this was also a pattern with the person who was trying to imply that multiboxing was bad because a selfish person could take up multiple spots on a raid and leave some guildmates out in the cold. Erm... why would a guild allow that? If you've got a selfish player it doesn't matter if he multiboxes or not, you're probably better off without him. If your guild leader or raid leader is willing to push people aside in order to let some selfish jerk take up spots on a raid, why are you still in that guild?

People will make any argument about multiboxing... even arguments that have nothing to do with multiboxing!

[Tehtsuo]

It's like being pissed that a guy in a wheelchair is an asshole to you and bitching because he's in the wheelchair, not because he was a dick.This made me laugh irl. What an elegant simile!

[keyclone]

it's amazing to me, the utter lack of understanding of a simple concept. this is basic AI understanding.

flipping a switch that turns on 1 light bulb or 10 is not automation... it's called wiring.

to make a strand of lights flash or blink in some order... is not automation... it's wiring combined with a capacitor

these people would actually look at a Christmas tree with awe and declare it to be automated as someone flips the switch...

to these idiots... the whole world is pfm (pure freakin magic)

:evil: ignorance is bliss .. just crying out to be clubbed

[Ughmahedhurtz]

lol keyclone. I was thinking something similar. Every time I see these people trying to claim it's automation, I'm reminded of Clarke's laws ('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws') . Especially the one that says "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

We need that colonel in Full Metal Jacket to be our spokesman: "[H]ow about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?" http://tools.digeratimarketing.co.uk/content/lb/smile/party/party0005.gif

[Vyndree]

Allow me to set your argument to rest. This:



Add in a 3rd party program. You press ONE button and all 5 screens react. How exactly is that fair/legit? It's not. The ability to control 5 computers at once with 1 single keyboard and 1 single press of a button is automation. The ability to make your characters cast their individual spells and skills at once by pressing 1 button is automation.



Is not automation by our standards. This is why multi-boxing is just fine.

The moment that single keypress initiates a string of actions not normally possible via our base macro system for an individual character, then that is a different matter. It is also a separate offense.

Multi-boxing, currently, is not a violation of our policies.

That is all.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5288579356&sid=1&pageNo=14

[PyrostasisTDK]

Does anyone else find it funny when someone complains about us, then a GM comes and explains in detail how its fine, and they suddenly disappear. Every once in a while it would be nice for an apology, and yes I know Im dreaming.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

That or they start with the "I don't care what blizz says, it's cheating and you people are lame." :P

[Vyndree]

That or they start with the "I don't care what blizz says, it's cheating and you people are lame." :P

Retort with "I don't care what you say, blizz says harassment is cheating and you are" ;)

[kermitforney]

What is it with the WOW community and their constant B&Ming? ? ? I have never experienced this
in any other gaming community.

All I ever hear:
Nerf This - class is overpowered
Why did you Nerf this - the calss was fine
Your cheating
I'm not cheating
You suck
I am awesome
etc. . .

It just makes any person with an ounce of intelligence and lack of patience not participate in the discussion at all. :thumbsup:

[Tdog]

What is it with the WOW community and their constant B&Ming? ? ? I have never experienced this
in any other gaming community.

All I ever hear:
Nerf This - class is overpowered
Why did you Nerf this - the calss was fine
Your cheating
I'm not cheating
You suck
I am awesome
etc. . .

It just makes any person with an once of intelligence and a lack of patience not participate in the discussion at all. :thumbsup:LOL you just more or less explained why I started Multi-boxing. If I have to put up with one more shitty pug for of elitis wanna-be pricks I'd have to strangle some kittens :( My goal is to get so good with multiboxing end-game dunegons I don't have to ever do a pug again! Not to say I wouldn't run some with good friends or people that I know and like but screw the mass public of WoW imho.

[Moxy]

LOL you just more or less explained why I started Multi-boxing. If I have to put up with one more shitty pug for of elitis wanna-be pricks I'd have to strangle some kittens :( My goal is to get so good with multiboxing end-game dunegons I don't have to ever do a pug again! Not to say I wouldn't run some with good friends or people that I know and like but screw the mass public of WoW imho.Hear, hear! :thumbup:

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Honestly, this isn't new to WoW. I've seen it in gaming forums for Team Fortress back in the day, DAoC before this and now in WoW. Just a lot more prevalent in WoW. (or maybe just a lot more visible due to the population size?)

[Dezeral]

Apparently some of you never played Everquest or don't remember the whinefest. The EQ forums actually got so bad that Sony shut down their official forums due to all of the whining.

[d0z3rr]

Apparently some of you never played Everquest or don't remember the whinefest. The EQ forums actually got so bad that Sony shut down their official forums due to all of the whining.Hopefully Blizzard will do that. The WoW forums are filled with Trolls, it's the most amazing thing I've ever seen.

[Otlecs]

I have never experienced this in any other gaming community.

I wish I could say the same! Every game I've ever played has seen the whiners hitting the forums every 30 seconds whilst the rest of the population just quietly enjoy the game.

With every game I've played, you'd think the sky was falling by reading the forums, and if anybody dares try to bring some sanity to the discussion, they're dismissed as fanboys.

The WoW community isn't any different in that regard.

[Jubex]

Money talks man....blizzard doesn't give a shit if 1 dude quits....cause a multiboxer has already covered his fees easily. Yes we get the standardised reply but what everything always comes down to is profit.

[Ðeceased]

Money talks man....blizzard doesn't give a shit if 1 dude quits....cause a multiboxer has already covered his fees easily. Yes we get the standardised reply but what everything always comes down to is profit.

tis true to some extent :) on the other hand now that there has been so much debate logic vs illogic and as they have said over and over and over that it is not automation etc I can't see how they could possibly.. in future say "well actually", even if ppl decided on mass to quit due to mboxing

[keyclone]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Gnomes_plan.png

[Ðeceased]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Gnomes_plan.png

service?

[Bigfish]

Apparently some of you never played Everquest or don't remember the whinefest. The EQ forums actually got so bad that Sony shut down their official forums due to all of the whining.Hopefully Blizzard will do that. The WoW forums are filled with Trolls, it's the most amazing thing I've ever seen.

I don't know. The general forum is a huge mess, but I find the more specified forums do rather well in their purpose. I find that the companies that don't offer or shut down their forums are the ones least interested in fostering their community. For all the complaints and negetivity that gets tossed around on message boards, a lot of it remains positive and a more-or-less good place to get information. Even just from an information perspective, I would rather have some amount of control and awareness to what the forum junky community is saying than just letting it all fall to tens to hundreds of 3rd party message boards.

[wrs]

I find it a little unsettling that the GM stated:


Multi-boxing, currently, is not a violation of our policies.
Currently?

[Gallo]

I find it a little unsettling that the GM stated:




Multi-boxing, currently, is not a violation of our policies.
Currently?Another GM has been quoted talking about this exact thing. He basically said that GM's need to say "currently" to cover their own ass because it COULD change. In the same breath he stated that he didn't think it would change.

[Dorffo]

I find it a little unsettling that the GM stated:




Multi-boxing, currently, is not a violation of our policies.
Currently?Another GM has been quoted talking about this exact thing. He basically said that GM's need to say "currently" to cover their own ass because it COULD change. In the same breath he stated that he didn't think it would change.

doh just beat me to it! Yeah if you look back over the history of "blue" posts any time a CSR comments on something that is covered by the EULA or ToS verbiage they have to phrase it that way so that someone doesn't dredge up that post and say "See see the company said X" if the policies change down the road. From a business stand point though, anything that falls within the allowed rules and gets a subscriber to pickup 1-5 additional subscriptions has to be a Good Thing.