Legion World PvP Teams

[Mosg2]

Hello everyone!

I have been waiting until closer to the Legion launch to consider team setups, but now I think we're close enough to toss some ideas around. I'll split my thoughts into melee and ranged--And I'm talking about a team of 10 or more characters. With that in mind...

Ranged:
1. Warlocks look amazing. With Shadowburn, you just need enough Warlocks that they can one-shot a character with Shadowburn, and you'll be able to blow up one person per GCD at instant speed, while moving, without spending mana. With the new Fire and Brimstone and/or Wreak Havoc, you're looking at good AoE potential. They also come with an AoE stun, albeit with a 1.5 second cast.

2. Hunters also look amazing. Because of IWT not being functional for Hunters you can't run Survival, but MM looks great. With Barrage and Sidewinders they'll be able to chew through any number of characters easily, and Hunter single-target burst is, of course, instant and usable while moving. The obvious downside is that there is no real AoE CC available with Hunters :/

3. Priests seem interesting, but I'm not sure how good they'll be. Mindbomb is an amazing AoE stun that you could cast on every single target with enough Priests in your group, but their AoE is virtually nonexistent and their DPS isn't as mobile as Warlocks or Hunters.

4. None of the other ranged classes/specs look very interesting to me. Druid lost its crazy AoE and their single-target DPS isn't super impressive, though with the changes to Balance you can now multibox it much easier. Mage doesn't have anything that's particularly interesting from a multiboxing perspective. Shaman are virtually immobile while casting, plus you have to ground target totems now. Without the SWTOR innovation of "autocast ground targeted spells on my target" I don't see them being better than average.

Melee:
1. I have to say that once again Death Knights seem to be head and shoulders above the rest. Death Grip solves so many problems, and the AoE of Howling Blast is just stupid good. Even Unholy looks competitive this time around, though all specs still lack any sort of AoE CC.

2. Demon Hunters seem actually doable to me. For mobility, they've got a 15 yard charge on a 15 second cooldown that can be reset through your normal rotation. Additionally, they have Fel Rush on a 10 second cooldown AND an insta-cast AoE 5 second stun. With 8 or more of them, you could chain it pretty effectively to shut down people's offense. Eye Beam and Fel Barrage seem like strong AoE damage, too. I think, overall, you're losing part of the strength of the DH by not being able to individually manage the Fel Rush, but the AoE stun and damage are really enticing.

3. I think the rest of the melee classes kind of fall into the same camp of "I do good damage but I don't have any break-out abilities". None of them have the same mobility tools that DK/DH have, which to me is the first and last problem you have to solve with a melee team. Boxing 15 toons, the thing that held me back always was managing to get as many toons into melee range as possible. In any situation where you're facing a lot of people, you're going to spend a lot of time snared/rooted/stunned unless you have some good AoE CC that doesn't break on damage (DH, Warrior, and Monk all have this, though Monk's is only a 5 yard range vice 8 on the DH and Warrior).

So, those're my thoughts. Since I was unable to get my Bnet split up, I'll be restarting a week or two after Legion launches. I'd love to have some productive back and forth on this topic :)

[ebony]

i have to say i had many talks to players about this. and we been looking at paladins a lot again if we get rooted its kinda bad but then we was thinking the pala/dk setup.


To be fair i been playing a lot with warlocks and or though the shadowbrun build atm is the only build you can play as desto. we have a bit of CC thats not to bad. or though you need a felhunter for spell lock. But atm its the artifact ins cast spell x3 changes and then ShadowBruns and the other ins cast fire spell.

again this is not a number topic i understand that but desto is really really lacking, but we have a lot of def and shields and one of the few classes that can take a good beating.


Or though i seem to be falling more for Demo atm i love all the pets! the pets do all the hardwork and get assess to a x2 ins stuns. the aoe is good. doom is kinda funny when stacked for the dmg it does. and healing is really top atm am doing more healing them some healers in bgs. (maybe a number problem)


but right now the xpac or the starts and the pvp templates seems to go for Melee i don;t know how well they play in the world. as i can not really see many boxers doing arena.

[Mosg2]

Ebony, have you played around with Demon Hunters at all?

[ebony]

Ebony, have you played around with Demon Hunters at all?

Yep i played the into quest my setup is your dk spam bar follow worked well. The eye beam was a pain but i did not setup any marocs.

[Fat Tire]

Currently with no reliable way to break snares on their own demonhunters are a horrible choice. Also, hunter have to cast their single target burst shots besides piercing shot, but that is a 30 sec cooldown. Aimed shot is not available while moving any longer.

If it were me I would go with blood dks and prot paladins. Blood with double grips and mass grip and prot with avengers and 25% targetable instant heal every 10 secs along with their cool auras. Dont have to worry about holy power with prot as well.

[Mosg2]

@Fat Tire
Don't all the melee struggle with roots and snares though? It seems like all of'em are susceptible to chain roots/stuns--One of the reasons I think DH will be good is because of their strong AoE stun. I think it'll make it harder to pull off successive CC effects on a team.

I wonder if the DH PvP talent Reverse Magic works on non-damaging harmful spell effects, like Frost Nova etc...

[Fat Tire]

AoE stun is a mixed bag. On the beta most pvpers are still human and humans get a free "get out of stun" trinket. Counting the stun DR and your not getting much bang for your mass mutiboxing buck with DH, unless youre playing vengeance spec as they just dont die atm.

Yes, some melee are having a harder time with snares/roots than others. Some melee are able to stick to casters much easier in legion. However, one nerf or buff either way and it could be real rough.

[Kruschpakx4]

rets got all the healing and cc dispel blessing on 30 sec cooldown, combined with a blood dk for double deathgrip and death chain, thats probably the best comp for anything

eventually it will come down to numbers, but talent wise ret looks very solid

its really a joke when you compare pvp talents of any class with those from shaman, "when you use stormstrike on a target you will also cast chainlightning on it" I'd really like to know which genius came up with this brilliant idea. Looking back at MOP it should actually read "when you use stormblast you will actually cast stormblast not just triggering the cooldown and nothing happens despite the target cant even parry/dodge"

[ebony]

Shams have bloodlost on a 30sec cd no debuff as well.. that is just sillly.

As for holy power jamba can track this now for your team.

[Malseph]

The problem with World PvP in general in Legion is that stat templates don't take effect in world, making world pvp pretty much worthless in Legion. Any mythic raider can walk up to an LFR geared boxer and AoE him twice and hes dead. Its silly. Hopefully they allow stat templates in world like they have in instances to fix this, if people complain enough.

As far as classes go DK's have had a lot of changes. I kept my eye on them since alpha began, then through beta still. If your going DK, you'll still want to run frost/blood os but its about only about half as strong as it was in WoD due to Rime. Your Howling Blast now reguires a proc to do full damage (Buffs it by 300% after you obliterate). You can buff it via talents, and now you have 6 runes to spam it instead. But it wont hit nearly as hard anymore unfortunately without you obliterating first.

For Demon Hunters they could be pretty decent in tank spec for world PvP. One of the main attacks (and most other main attacks for Vengeance) are AoE/Cleave abilities. One interesting ability is soul cleave or something like that, it hits all enemies in front of you for (on my DH) 158k dmg and heals for 180k. As long as you can manage being hit at range they look good. Maybe not the best damage though if your facing larger raids with many healers, you won't beat the heals unfortunately. The other DH spec increases in speed with Mastery but has very very few AoE abilities. Mainly just eye beam and the other one.

Warriors have had a lot of good work done on them. Arms warriors (If you know how to box warriors, some people find it tough) look fantastic in legion for boxing. Cleave and Whirlwind are basically both main attacks now and Mortal Strike can hit another target. They have a lot of cleave AoE that is just built into their main attacks. Combine that will the CD's they now have and you could run 20 of them into a blob of 60 players and take them all out in a cleave or two. Fury is meh right now, i've been looking a lot at it hoping it improves since currently its the only spec with Bladestorm. But for boxing it doesn't seem amazing. Just my opinions so far from what i have seen on Alpha and Beta

[Kruschpakx4]

The problem with World PvP in general in Legion is that stat templates don't take effect in world, making world pvp pretty much worthless in Legion. Any mythic raider can walk up to an LFR geared boxer and AoE him twice and hes dead. Its silly. Hopefully they allow stat templates in world like they have in instances to fix this, if people complain enough.

I asked ebony to check out if counterstrike totem has internal cooldown/reflects aoe damage. We can confirm that even spells like chainlight/bladestorm are getting reflected and there is no internal cooldown. To clarify: if you bladestorm 5 people and one of them has cs totem up, you get every single hit reflected back on you. Furthermore the totem buff stacks, so if you bladestorm 5 shamans with 5 cs totems up you die almost instantly. Considering that this totem is pretty much useless in 3v3 since you can just onehit it I doubt that it will get nerfed too hard (maybe cooldown or stacking). But in non competitive pvp stacking this totem will be insane.

This pretty much solves the "mythic raider problem" for me, since its damage output scales with the damage of whoever attacks you within 20 yard range. Still not sure how to deal with fear though, maybe I'm gonna use a demon hunter as main for aoe magic dispel and save trinket for stuff like warrior fear.

[ebony]

The problem with World PvP in general in Legion is that stat templates don't take effect in world, making world pvp pretty much worthless in Legion. Any mythic raider can walk up to an LFR geared boxer and AoE him twice and hes dead. Its silly. Hopefully they allow stat templates in world like they have in instances to fix this, if people complain


Am sorry but changeing stats in the world on the fly is what has broken wpvp the lag it makes its unreal and big boxers (pepard) just are unkillable. there saying wpvp anything! Goes inc boxers not everyone is going to have that gear.... so really the odd few players with cds get you down or half off a big team then so it be. We can not be gods that is what brecking the game. And boxers carry on like they are now then i can see more hits to us.

If u really wanna be that good then get the gear u not even said anything about like nukes and stuff we can use in zones. But more like tj where u get more of a choice. So we will not be all that bad


Take a death!

[Malseph]

Am sorry but changeing stats in the world on the fly is what has broken wpvp the lag it makes its unreal and big boxers (pepard) just are unkillable. there saying wpvp anything! Goes inc boxers not everyone is going to have that gear.... so really the odd few players with cds get you down or half off a big team then so it be. We can not be gods that is what brecking the game. And boxers carry on like they are now then i can see more hits to us.

If u really wanna be that good then get the gear u not even said anything about like nukes and stuff we can use in zones. But more like tj where u get more of a choice. So we will not be all that bad


Take a death!

Hes not unkillable. I killed him all the time till he quit. Changing stats and making everything balanced doesn't kill World PvP, it just balances it. It makes it better for everyone. Boxers and any pvper that doesn't raid are hurt the most in World PvP in legion. Not sure how you can justify that. Not sure how you can possibly justify PVE'rs dominating PvP and PvPers getting roflstomped by some guy who backpeddles, but okay. The lag isnt caused by scaling either. You will get the same lag in legion unless they upgrade. PvP whether you are a boxer or not should be irrelevant. We are talking about balance across the board for everyone, making gear pointless in PvP. That is what they are doing in instances but leaving it out where it really matters for a lot of people, that being the world. Yeah i dont really like the nukes or toys either but thats part of Wpvp and you can easily counter the people that abuse those but you cant counter the acual games mechanics. I'm really not entirely sure what you are getting at besides trying to argue the point that world PvP should be balanced, which makes no sense to any real PvPer. PvP SHOULD be balanced.

[Andreauk]

PvP will never be balanced, just like classes won't..

[Fat Tire]

PvP will never be balanced, just like classes won't..

Yup, nor should it be. The fact that legion gear scaling kills off mass world pvp or makes in a pain in the ass to gear is just icing on the cake, any cake.

[Mosg2]

I'm sorry, I don't understand how the gear scaling affects world pvp in Legion. I was under the impression that the gear from PvE and PvP would comparable at comparable skill levels, and interchangeable. Is that not the case? Or is the concern that you won't have all your characters with a high enough rating to get comparable pve gear?

[ebony]

I'm sorry, I don't understand how the gear scaling affects world pvp in Legion. I was under the impression that the gear from PvE and PvP would comparable at comparable skill levels, and interchangeable. Is that not the case? Or is the concern that you won't have all your characters with a high enough rating to get comparable pve gear?


there is no more pvp gear no pvp set bonus etc. in ins pvp ashran/bgs/rbgs/arana you have a temple stats that everyone will have in there. your gear is like i ilvl a point in pvp. so raiding gear being 810 (or whatever it is) will be better then pvp gear unless u can do arena at 2220+ then you can get gear at a ilvl off 805 or somthing close.

in world pvp the temple does not kick in and will have to go off pve gear stats. as all gear is pve now even if you get it from pvp it will not be used that for ins pvp really..


so what his saying is a 810 will oneshot a team of say 760

[Mosg2]

Certainly the difference between 760 and 810 isn't that big?

But I understand now :) I'm gonna' go look at the pvp talents again.

[Malseph]

Yeah hopefully the difference isn't that bad. I'll probably manage to get my toons pretty geared some way but it will be a pain compared to now and before.

[Wubsie]

I asked ebony to check out if counterstrike totem has internal cooldown/reflects aoe damage. We can confirm that even spells like chainlight/bladestorm are getting reflected and there is no internal cooldown. To clarify: if you bladestorm 5 people and one of them has cs totem up, you get every single hit reflected back on you. Furthermore the totem buff stacks, so if you bladestorm 5 shamans with 5 cs totems up you die almost instantly. Considering that this totem is pretty much useless in 3v3 since you can just onehit it I doubt that it will get nerfed too hard (maybe cooldown or stacking). But in non competitive pvp stacking this totem will be insane.

This pretty much solves the "mythic raider problem" for me, since its damage output scales with the damage of whoever attacks you within 20 yard range. Still not sure how to deal with fear though, maybe I'm gonna use a demon hunter as main for aoe magic dispel and save trinket for stuff like warrior fear.

Interesting... I wasn't really looking at the CS totem as much as I was the buff ones and plausibly having 100% uptime on them, but this might change things. Of course good players will snipe them fairly quickly, but I suppose enough pets and toons might make them somewhat hard to target without pre-set macros. I would also not be surprised to see the stacking nerfed, but for now they seem too good to pass up on

Personally I am most likely looking at a Tank + Frost DKs + Healers setup... Not 100% on the specifics, but a combination of monk/shaman healers seems decent. Perhaps leaning more towards shammies due to the totems. Tank of choise is most likely Blood DK or Prot Warrior for AOE CC and the 3% leech buff they give your group. Perhaps I should consider some Enha shammies...

Still looking at other options, but something like that seems like a fairly safe bet to me.

[Mosg2]

It seems like Demon Hunters, with Reverse Magic and Darkness (amplified by PvP's Cover of Darkness) make for a crazy team. With 8-10 DH, you could rotate Reverse Magic every 2 seconds or so... That would fix all your root problems (Frost Nova and the Druid root)!

Anyone have any idea of how fast the PvP leveling will work without doing BGs and/or arenas?

[ebony]

It seems like Demon Hunters, with Reverse Magic and Darkness (amplified by PvP's Cover of Darkness) make for a crazy team. With 8-10 DH, you could rotate Reverse Magic every 2 seconds or so... That would fix all your root problems (Frost Nova and the Druid root)!

Anyone have any idea of how fast the PvP leveling will work without doing BGs and/or arenas?

World pvp quests seems to show 2+ at a time and give a set blue item and a good deal of xp it seems they last 4 hours before new one shows i can not test untill 110 but i have been to them.

From winning 2 bgs i got a level 1-6 is very fast it slows down a lot after that for 2nd row (4+ wins) and 3rd row nerver got to. Stuff like this is changing a lot and goes down to players on your realm.

Jamba will have the honor xp bar support.

[Mosg2]

I have a question about Unholy DKs that hopefully someone in the beta can answer.

With the T1 talent Bursting Spores, you get a small AoE from each Festering Wound that bursts. Festering Wound says that it also bursts when the target dies; does this mean that you get the AoE from each unburst Festering Wound when they die before you can pop them?

That was my reading of it, but the FinalBoss second pass of Unholy DK said it doesn't.

[Wubsie]

I have a question about Unholy DKs that hopefully someone in the beta can answer.

With the T1 talent Bursting Spores, you get a small AoE from each Festering Wound that bursts. Festering Wound says that it also bursts when the target dies; does this mean that you get the AoE from each unburst Festering Wound when they die before you can pop them?

That was my reading of it, but the FinalBoss second pass of Unholy DK said it doesn't.
Meant to test this earlier, but Beta servers have been up and down like an elevator lately.

As far as I can tell, you do not get the AOE from the unburst Festering Wounds. Atleast I did not see fairly obvious damage numbers pop up, nor anything in my combat log. Take this with a grain of salt as usual.

[Kruschpakx4]

I've done a little beta arena yesterday, havent played for half a year now so I didnt really know what to do but it worked out really well. Windstrike+doom winds + random numbers from random damage sources (I couldnt track down from where they all came from lol) is gonna be oneshot in its current state for 3-4 shamans. Counterstrike totem, as expected, is retardedly op. If you drop it in a zerg fest and they dont see it they basically kill themselves in a couple of seconds. I had a duel vs a warrior and killed him in 2-3 sec with ascendacne+cs totem while he had cooldowns up too. The totem has 5 hp though so against better players its not that useful but in the <2200 3v3 it can win the game for you.

Our dps is also sick, I forgot bloodlust half the time but when lining up with doomwinds every 45 sec it hits hard. Maelstorm generation is also quite easy, as long as you are withing 10 yard range on a target to spam bolderfist you wont run out of it. Speaking of it, all of the rockbiter/flametongue/frostbrand/boulderfist attacks have 10 yard range which makes up abit for the loss on windwalk totem I guess. Right now lava lash is not hitting that hard so I would use the maelstorm on healing, the heals do 175k on a 1.5M healthpool so alittle over 10%, thats quite ok considering with 100 maelstorm you can spam 5 instant heals in a row. The limiting factor is mana though, healcost is not reduced by maelstorm so after those 5 heals you have to attack stuff to reg mana, full mana bar takes approx 15 seconds.

Mobility is somewhat ok, we still have 60% runspeed+root remove on 60 sec cooldown and a charge called feral lunge (which is far bettern than the crappy totem in that tier, even for multiboxing), what sucks though is that the healing rain is in the same tier. If you're about to do a world pvp team I would suggest to add a dk to the team (blood for double deathgrip) and then take the instant healing rain talent, its quite good for group healing.

As for the bad stuff, no more shamanistic rage for enhance, but astral shift which is weaker overall. No more tremor /grounding totem so get used to stay in full fear whenever you have no trinket ready :/. That does suck but since cs totem has 100% uptime its gonna make up for it, atleast in world pvp.

Gonna test ret and dk next. In case of cs totem nerfs I'm gonna play Kromtors dk/ret combo because the gameplay is going to be cool with trinket+cc dispel rotations. Shamans got their skillcap massively lowered since you no longer have to track windwalk/tremor/reset totems cooldowns, not sure how fun it is on the long run with basically zero totem management.

[emitchell109]

KrushPak what server do you play on?
EU or US?

Do you twitch stream at all? Your old pvp videos are insane.

[Kruschpakx4]

I'm EU, streaming wasnt possible for me over the years since the best possible internet in my region had 0.7mbit upload. Meanwhile its 3 mbit upload and thats probably barely enough for 720p stream, something that I have to check out in the near future. If my latency wont be affected all too much I'll stream in legion.

[Invisahealz]

I may be coming back as well. gonna have to decide on my team! Some interesting info posted here so I guess I will have some choices to make on what I want to do!

[Mosg2]

I'm planning on leveling mages first, of all things.

Arcane gives Mass Invisibility, which will cause every enemy to detarget you. I'm not sure if healing or taking actions other than damage will pop you out, but if it doesn't...

Krush, lots of good information on the shaman. You're not worried about mobility?

[Wubsie]

Will be interesting to see if CC totem gets nerfed, but as Krusch said, against competent players (atleast in arena) it's a no-brainer to deal with utilizing targetting macros and add-ons to warn you of it's presence. The only real problem with it that I can see is it being dropped close by out of LOS, in some cases making attacking not an option before you locate it, waddle over to it (while most likely slowed) and kill it.

I honestly think that Rets could be viable in the right hands. They are severely nerfed in the off-healing department, but they can do some serious burst damage if specced for it. Judgement (+20% damage on Holy Power Spenders), +35 % from Avenging Wrath + Trinkets ? % + Hammer of Justice to increase Justicar's Vengeance (http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=215661/justicars-vengeance#comments) damage by 100%. Then just Wake of Ashes (http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=179546/ashes-to-ashes) to instantly gain 5 more holy power and hit Justicar's Vengeance again, although I doubt you would need to if you land the first one.

Leaning more towards a few simplified teams for my setups. For now considering a melee team and a ranged team:

Ranged: 1x Prot Warr, 3x Hunter, 3x Boomkin, 3x Resto Shaman / MW Monk
Melee: 1x Blood DK, 3x Frost DK 3x Enha Shammy, 3x MW Monk

This is if I go with 10. If only do 5, then I will most likely do Rets or Enha shammies.

Not really sure how necessary tanks are since I've not tried how hard guards hit on Beta, but I like having one and the 3% leech buff from Prot Warrs seems like a decent addition.


Also: WB Invisahealz. ^^

[emitchell109]

I have no clue as to what I wanna roll in legion. I have just about everything at 100 now in good numbers. But the only classes I have with decent gear "being 705-710 pvp" would be a 5xhunter-BM/5xdruid-Feral set.

[Kruschpakx4]

Krush, lots of good information on the shaman. You're not worried about mobility?

So we have spirit walk on 60 sec cd, feral lunge on 30 sec cd. Ghostwolf +30% runspeed and cant be slowed below 100% of ususal runspeed, earthgrab totem has 35 yard range +10yard radius range to root/slow targets. Its probably smart to have all three of earthgrab/vodoo/lighting surge totem in your team to have each cc on a different dr. In that regard all of a sudden we have 3 different reliable aoe ccs, I'd suggest to use root totem first followed by vodoo/lighting surge, switching window and dropping totem shouldnt be that much of a challenge. Unlike the current mechanic where your drop first then place you can now directly place the totem to that location. We have no more frostshock btw and frostbrand weapon is more of a waste of maelstorm as it needs 20 maelstorm and slows for only 3 sec and it doestn stack so dont even have that ability is your action bar.

So afterall our slowing capabilities rely on the root totem but I think we have enough utility to catch up with targets, if not we can still think about rotating frostbrand or using fury of air. I have hopes though for the windrush totem to get buffed, either reduced cooldown or improved range would be great.

If it turns out to be a bigger problem then swap one shaman for a dk :)

[ebony]

I have no clue as to what I wanna roll in legion. I have just about everything at 100 now in good numbers. But the only classes I have with decent gear "being 705-710 pvp" would be a 5xhunter-BM/5xdruid-Feral set.


i can not even get my head around Feral healing is a pain.... dps is slow.... i really really need to look at them more though and try and work something out

[emitchell109]

Well as of right now and while leveling I macro'd in the preditorial swiftness heal procs to always go to my tank. Now that they are all lvl 100 and can cast Rejuve while in cat form + with the talent if they cast it on someone else it also cast on themselves I am sure to have everyone sharing rejuves + I can aim the instant heals or have them focus who ever i am driving from.

I took them into a Mythic dungeon @itm lvl 640-660.

I was able to take down trash! lol but first boss almost one shots the team with just his shout alone. I got him to 89% Davidmage I am not!

Also, mine was leveled as a full team.
Tank, feralx3, resto. However the resto was macro'd to only cast rejuve/lifebloom/wildgrowth then wrath + talented so that wrath healed.

[Kruschpakx4]

I made a mistake in my previous post, frostbrand weapon works the same way as it does now, so 3 sec slow on each melee hit not on frostbrand use, got that wrong.

Recent patchnotes hit the cs totem, cooldown increased to 45 sec and duration down to 15 sec. Imo still good as long as the damage (and range) stays unaffected. Ss and switftness got nerfed but nothing to worry about for now. Enhancement got a huge surviveability buff with the recent ethereal form (http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=210918/ethereal-form) buff, I didnt mention that ability before since it had a big downside that has been removed. This ability grants immunity to melee attacks for 15 sec on 45 sec duration, you are unable to attack though and movement speed is reduced by 50%. But other than that this ability is just perfect for multiboxers as you can shift into that form for healing or more importantly, gathering after a full fear landed. Fear-> ethereal form->ghostwolf -> gather. Seems perfect to me.

[Mosg2]

CS Totem also changed so it's direct damage only, so no more redirecting Bladestorm etc.

Anyone have a mage they can test mass invisibility with? If it only cancels on offensive action, or on healing etc too?

[ebony]

there goes cs totem :( to be fair in bg's over half my dmg was from that..... its a no brainer it was going to change

[Kruschpakx4]

there goes cs totem :( to be fair in bg's over half my dmg was from that..... its a no brainer it was going to change

didnt see that lol, did alittle more skirmish games today and after feeling more confindent with this new playstyle I think its gonna be quite sucessful for 3s. Despite that aoe nerf the totem still does a shitload of damage as the most powerful abilities are singletarget anyway. The games follow the usual pattern where you get cc'd and they pop all cooldowns, so trinket out of cc + cs totem+oneshot macro is a pretty solid strategy. Bloodlust, ascendance and doom winds have no gcd so you can build them straight up into one macro. I've also found love for sundering, it does good damage against non plate. Ethereal form does suck because you cant heal either, its probably more useful with multiboxing when you use it only on the shaman that gets killed.

[Kruschpakx4]

Arcane gives Mass Invisibility, which will cause every enemy to detarget you. I'm not sure if healing or taking actions other than damage will pop you out, but if it doesn't...



you can eat/cast evo while beeing in mass invis, so I guess it only affects damaging spells

[Mosg2]

Looking at Demon Hunters more, I think they're going to be pretty amazing for multiboxing--Probably better than DKs en masse.

If you tank spec them you get Gorefiend's Grasp equivalent, amazing AE, survivability, and the Darkness' 65% chance to avoid damage to every friendly within 8 yards. That's a big deal.

[Fat Tire]

Looking at Demon Hunters more, I think they're going to be pretty amazing for multiboxing--Probably better than DKs en masse.

If you tank spec them you get Gorefiend's Grasp equivalent, amazing AE, survivability, and the Darkness' 65% chance to avoid damage to every friendly within 8 yards. That's a big deal.

Just logged on beta and its 15%; 3min cooldown

Edit: didnt see the honor talent boost

The sigils are all ground targeting, which sucks to me. I dont like those types of spells

[Mosg2]

There's a talent that makes the sigils auto-drop at your feet and one which reduces the cooldown on Darkness, too. That's the only reason I even posted about them haha--Having to ground target everything would be ridiculous, but all of a sudden they have AoE silence too? And their Gorefiend's Grasp has a 70% snare for 6 seconds? That's harsh.

[Kruschpakx4]

Have to try dh myself, from what I've seen on beta they are good but numbers arent final yet. Talents look great however. Reverse magic is gonna be huge in world pvp.

[ebony]

and here is a post on some wpvp i found...

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/52690-Alpha-Beta-Legion?p=405008&viewfull=1#post405008

[Mosg2]

It's gonna' stink if raids work but you have to be in a party to do the quests :/

[Mosg2]

Some notes from my prepatch experience for you intrepid wpvpers:

1. Unholy DKs are insane. Outbreak plus Clawing Shadows paired with the Ebon Fever talent makes DKs do about 70% of their dps at range. I'm in love with them.

2. Hunters are head and shoulders above the other ranged classes for multiboxing. Silly single target, silly AoE burst. I can't justify playing any of the other ranged specs when Hunter is so superlative.

3. The simplification of healers' rotation makes it pretty trivial to have a one-button rotation via ISBoxer.

4. It's cosmetic, but Holy Paladins using 2h now makes me ridiculously happy--I have weird OCD, and I always pair teams up so that they all wear the same type of armor. It's always irked me that I couldn't transmog each toon to be identical due to weapon/shield, but now I can!

~~~

5. I still haven't played with the DH, but I'm cooling off on their potential. Their AoE Death Grip only has an 8 yard range, so it doesn't actually solve team mobility. They may have amazing cooldowns and a bunch of cool tricks, but the bottom line is that they have a Roll-equivalent gap closer and very limited ranged DPS.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Some notes from my prepatch experience for you intrepid wpvpers:

1. Unholy DKs are insane. Outbreak plus Clawing Shadows paired with the Ebon Fever talent makes DKs do about 70% of their dps at range. I'm in love with them.

That's pretty interesting considering http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/19955661/:


So many of the Retribution Paladin’s abilities were ranged spells that they started to feel more like a caster than a melee crusader.

[Fat Tire]

Some notes from my prepatch experience for you intrepid wpvpers:

1. Unholy DKs are insane. Outbreak plus Clawing Shadows paired with the Ebon Fever talent makes DKs do about 70% of their dps at range. I'm in love with them.

2. Hunters are head and shoulders above the other ranged classes for multiboxing. Silly single target, silly AoE burst. I can't justify playing any of the other ranged specs when Hunter is so superlative.



I would expect Uh dk to get its aoe nerfed. On beta their pvp talent aura dot along with their amazing spread pressure is to much to last for to much longer. I wouldnt be surprised to see it not make it to launch.

Hunters on the other hand I could see getting buffed. Their loss of cc and mobility could allow them a buff to dps before to long. I dont feel that MM dps is strong enough.

BM hunters will get sprint bond back via the artifact talent and adaptation via the legendary ring. So BM is looking up.

Edit - The biggest boon to melee muti pvpers is run through. Casters have to cast alot more now and melee currently has no problem sticking to them.

[Mosg2]

@Ugh
I'm not sure what you're trying to say...

@Fat Tire
If they do nerf the AoE of Unholy, I imagine it'll be via tuning down Epidemic and the cleave from dropping DnD. I have a hard time imagining they'd remove the AoE disease spreading of Outbreak.

Hunters are still much more mobile than the other casters. Barrage and Sidewinders are pretty awesome, too.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

@Ugh
I'm not sure what you're trying to say...

Just that they dramatically reduced the ranged component of the ret paladin (a melee class) because it was a melee class and was working like a caster and not a melee class, and if a DK is a melee class...

[Fat Tire]

@Fat Tire
If they do nerf the AoE of Unholy, I imagine it'll be via tuning down Epidemic and the cleave from dropping DnD. I have a hard time imagining they'd remove the AoE disease spreading of Outbreak.

Hunters are still much more mobile than the other casters. Barrage and Sidewinders are pretty awesome, too.

Well one thing you can count on is that anything good now wont be good at launch or shorty after. Once players get their artifacts filled in a little and their honor talents the nerfs will start coming. It always happens at the start of an expansion, in this particular case I believe the class that will be nerfed first will be.....melee.

Decomp aura and the CD aura I am sure will be nerfed first. Decomp aura probably down to 2%, since currently 5% is one of many things making them op.

[Mosg2]

Ah sure. All three DK specs look pretty amazing, so I'm pretty happy with them as a primary team.

[Mosg2]

*News Flash*

When you take the Bursting Sores talent, you get the AoE when a mob dies and the pustules burst. I'm cleaving down packs of 5-10 elites in seconds right now.

[Fat Tire]

*News Flash*

When you take the Bursting Sores talent, you get the AoE when a mob dies and the pustules burst. I'm cleaving down packs of 5-10 elites in seconds right now.

Be aware. I am seeing stealth nerfs to UH dks past couple of days. Clawing shadows, scourge strike nerfed among others. Burst sores I am sure is not far behind.

[Mosg2]

Well, I came back from vacation and got 16 Demon Hunters to level 100. They're very fun (and fun to watch no less), but trying to determine how a class plays without talents is just too hard. Without Felblade they really have issues staying on a target, and they don't have a reliable snare.

Also, they removed Darkness from the Vengeance spec, which was a nontrivial part of the allure of Demon Hunters. Sigh.