Zul'Farrak Pwrleveling pull strats?

[Tdog]

My shammy team has made it to 41 and I'm headed now to ZF to try my hand and more pally pwr lvling. I've seen a few threads with maps for pulling strats for other various zones. Was wondering if anyone could link me or send me in the right direction for something similar for ZF. Ran searches in the forums and wiki but not finding anything.

[Gurblash]

ZF powerleveling on a paladin sucks... Mass Healing Totems sucks.

Best advice is to setup a macro to target healing totems on your shamans after your pally gets aggro and shock them.

[Tdog]

ZF powerleveling on a paladin sucks... Mass Healing Totems sucks.

Best advice is to setup a macro to target healing totems on your shamans after your pally gets aggro and shock them.Hmm...is there an alternative to ZF that might be a bit better for a paladin? I should mention that I actually aoe the whole instance in my shockadin gear so my conscreations are at 204 w/o wings and usually mows mobs down. I also have been using my shammies in SM at least to chain lightning healers and such for quicker kills. I don't use actual tanking gear unless I'm doing a ZOMGWTF huge pull. Although if I decide to start doing strat and scholo i probably will use tanking gear for those.

[Stabface]

Try BRD, I found it much easier than ZF. Just clear the big circle room and the left-most loop (goes around by the Arena) and run out & reset.

[geoffdavison]

as i said in other posts.. i ran through this multiple times leveling up my son's toons with my prot spec pally.. this zone sucks... go anywhere else .. if you pally is 70 hit one of the undead instances.

[Marathon]

Tottally agree! 70 Pallys do not do well by themselves in ZF. However, Mages kick alot ass there.

[Tdog]

Okay so I tried out BRD this evening...that was about the worst instance I've ever seen to boost in :( Mobs were sooooo spread out, hit harder than I would of liked only allowing me to pull a small portion of the room at a time not to mention that mobs reset in this zone which wouldn't allow you to pull a big pull anyways. But the worst thing of all was the over abundance of nets that you got casted on you making it damn near impossible to move. No imho BRD is horrible place to power boost in.

I did do ZF later on this morning and I must say, I love this place on my paladin :D I can mount which allows me to pull tons of mobs in a very short amount of time and recieve very little dmg in the process. And there are 3 seperate rooms that are condense with mobs that give tons of xp, bug room, graveyard, the pyramid event.

There were a few annoying things about ZF however but suprisingly it was not the healing totems at all that annoyed me as I've seen many people have suggested would...
1. Caster mobs run away forever and then some, especially in the first corridor before the fountain. Often have to chase them down because they just don't seem to want to come back to you.
2. Hex from the shadow hunters can be very deadly if not removed off you main extremely quickly. It doesn't happen much but with pulls with even a few hunters you'd better be rdy to either dispell it or bubble out of it and /cancelaura divine shield or you can /wave to all that xp :(

These aren't anything that can't be overcome and overall I really like this place for boosting on my pally.

[Tizer]

I would imagine powerleveling past level 40 using a pally to be a royal pain. I personally use my 70 hunter. Im in SM Cath atm with my 4 Shaman on follow, i'll be there till 35/36 then ZF till 45 and Scholo (first 3 rooms only) till 58/59 or even 60 depending on how bored i get before i hit Outlands. In Scholo from 45+ its pretty much 2 hours per level, if i up the pace a bit i can go faster but i dont bother. Its easy, comfy and i can even leave the 4 shaman on the bridge at the start while i go clear everything before resetting. I would suggest you stick to SM Cath till 36 or even 37 with your pally, get as much out of it as you can. Following that your guess is as good as mine :)....Uldaman perhaps..? gogo

[Kaynin]

The undead packs in Stratholme are awesome to boost with when you are a prot paladin. :p

Lotsa dps vs undead too.

[Tdog]

I would imagine powerleveling past level 40 using a pally to be a royal pain. I personally use my 70 hunter. Im in SM Cath atm with my 4 Shaman on follow, i'll be there till 35/36 then ZF till 45 and Scholo (first 3 rooms only) till 58/59 or even 60 depending on how bored i get before i hit Outlands. In Scholo from 45+ its pretty much 2 hours per level, if i up the pace a bit i can go faster but i dont bother. Its easy, comfy and i can even leave the 4 shaman on the bridge at the start while i go clear everything before resetting. I would suggest you stick to SM Cath till 36 or even 37 with your pally, get as much out of it as you can. Following that your guess is as good as mine :)....Uldaman perhaps..? gogoI personally decided to stay in SM till 40. I use my shammies to help chain lightning and magma totems in ZF. I'm also grinding in my shockadin gear while prot specced. My conscreation with +950 spell dmg really mows down the mobs. I use the shammies to target the healers and knock them out.

I also tried out uldaman. It wasn't too bad but the mobs are a bit too spread out for me past the first boss.

[Tdog]

The undead packs in Stratholme are awesome to boost with when you are a prot paladin. :p

Lotsa dps vs undead too.Yea I'm definitely planning on trying out strat once I get my team outta ZF.

[marvein]

Even though the first half of the instance starts the same if you do live instead of dead you can get some tasty cash drops like righteous orbs or the ever so elusive flask of distilled wisdom off the last boss, on my server atleast that pattern sells for around 300g easily. Just thought Id throw that out there. People still love crusader for the lower bracket twinks (since mongoose has become king of the 39 bracket)

[Team Squishee]

I would have thought the top floor of Sunken Temple would work well for levels 40-45 , lots of AOE pulls up there.

[Jaws5]

for 38-45 try Ultaman. Use back door , pull all bats and other scorps. then 1 big pull of troggs. that opens up 2 -3 boss really fast. nice way to gear your 5 mans.

[Ramesses]

So I am looking to do a 4shammy 1paly boost team. Paly is currently being leveled to 60, and I will probably try to take him to 70 myself before my hardware arrives and the 4 shammies are created.

So it looks like youve had much success with +damage gear and prot build. Would you reccommend this to others with a similar team makeup for boosting the shammies up? What are benefit/limitations?

[Tdog]

So it looks like youve had much success with +damage gear and prot build. Would you reccommend this to others with a similar team makeup for boosting the shammies up? What are benefit/limitations?Well It depends on your gear but I personally have a strong spell dmg set on my pally and a mediocre actual tanking set. With spell dmg gear in a prot build you will still be able to take the hits just fine. Melee dmg reduction is capped at 75% anyways which at lvl 43-46 which is what most of the mobs in ZF are at requires an amount considerably lower than the 16k armor my shockadin gear set has. Imho for a pure booster spec I'd simply skip toughness talent.

So imo shockadin gear set vs. tanking gear set for boosting purposes...

Pros:
-Higher consecration dmg allowing you to mow down mobs very quickly(Which is a majority of your dmg for boosting)
-More SoR/JoR dmg. (Very nice for downing healers quickly)
-Larger mana pool
-More +healing/mp5 (not needed but nice)

Cons:
-Takes more dmg (like i stated above your melee dmg reduction is capped at 75% which at these lower lvls isn't a very high armor amount, however you dont have near the dodge, parry, and importantly block)
-For the extremely large pulls you are much more likely to need to be able to rely on heals than when you're boosting in tanking gear, which some mobs interupt making it impossilbe to get a heal off with 50 mobs shield bashing you also cutting off your offensive abilites as paladins only have one school of magic.
-Less sheild block=less dmg reflection (Less BoSanct or any other block based dmg reflections)

Summary:
+spell dmg gear = more dmg taken, much more dmg dealt, less downtime
tanking gear = less dmg taken, more sta, slower killing time, requires less mana thru dmg reflection

TBH I'd use w/e you have a better set of for SM->ZF. If you have a strong block dmg reflection set go with you're tanking gear. If you have a strong +spell dmg set go with that. I wouldn't drop alot of money into a boosting set as you can simply pull a few less mobs if you're really getting overwhelmed. I'm past ZF now and about to go into Strat. At this point I'm starting to lean towards str8 tanking gear again or a good mix. I'll post what I figure out though as I figure it out.

[Osium]

With a Paladin you're looking at a gap between about 44 and about 53.

Nothing is very good with a paladin until you can take those Shamans into Stratholme. The reason I say about 53 is that unless your paladin is insanely geared you're not going to grind XP faster than you can quest it. At 53 the Shamans can actually start to sort of help.

ZF is terrible for a paladin for the reasons already mentioned. BRD is the same situation. It simply isn't going to be worth your while over quest grinding without a higher level helper. Uldaman is actually slower than SM.

If you want the XP gravy train to continue in that gap there is only one answer. A warlock. I subbed a warlock in for a paladin at 45 when I got desperate and ran out of ideas for the Paladin. I went to ZF, put the shamans on AF and ran through the instance insta dotting everything. I was doing about 100k per hour. That will easily take you to 52-53 in a few hours. From there you need to simply bang out a couple more levels and then go to hellfire ramparts. You will do a solid 60-70k an hour in Ramparts with a paladin tanking it for you and it will only speed up as you level and less stuff is red. The bonus is you start to collect gear and working on your instancing strategies ;p

[Ramesses]

With a Paladin you're looking at a gap between about 44 and about 53.

Nothing is very good with a paladin until you can take those Shamans into Stratholme. The reason I say about 53 is that unless your paladin is insanely geared you're not going to grind XP faster than you can quest it. At 53 the Shamans can actually start to sort of help.

ZF is terrible for a paladin for the reasons already mentioned. BRD is the same situation. It simply isn't going to be worth your while over quest grinding without a higher level helper. Uldaman is actually slower than SM.

If you want the XP gravy train to continue in that gap there is only one answer. A warlock. I subbed a warlock in for a paladin at 45 when I got desperate and ran out of ideas for the Paladin. I went to ZF, put the shamans on AF and ran through the instance insta dotting everything. I was doing about 100k per hour. That will easily take you to 52-53 in a few hours. From there you need to simply bang out a couple more levels and then go to hellfire ramparts. You will do a solid 60-70k an hour in Ramparts with a paladin tanking it for you and it will only speed up as you level and less stuff is red. The bonus is you start to collect gear and working on your instancing strategies ;p

Thanks for the advice!

What level was your paladin when you hit the 45 wall? What kind of gear was he in?

Thanks.

[Mystrana]

Best place i found with my pally tank was ST lot of Dragon kin grouped together and some undead as well so i lvled there till they hit 51 from 42 then went BRD and hit arena and the rings for the 4 plus mobs groups
But i would say ST so far was the best place other than Scholo and Strat.

[Greythan]

If you want the XP gravy train to continue in that gap there is only one answer. A warlock. I subbed a warlock in for a paladin at 45 when I got desperate and ran out of ideas for the Paladin. I went to ZF, put the shamans on AF and ran through the instance insta dotting everything. I was doing about 100k per hour. That will easily take you to 52-53 in a few hours.

Can you elaborate? With the lock were you dotting up a few mobs heavily, letting pet help, and then moving on? Sort of a straight, non-ae type of grind approach?

Reason I ask is my 70 lock can easily get taken out by SM mobs when trying to Seed of Corruption AE if something goes wrong. I can't imagine running through a higher level instance letting any meaningful melee dps hit the lock.

[xtobbenx]

ZF was atleast for me alot easier to just go full nuke straight forward and not pull everything and then kill them.. I was using moonkin + 4 ellys at the lvls in ZF. So try that.. just go as fast as you can forward while killing all in the way.

[Darcla]

Reason I ask is my 70 lock can easily get taken out by SM mobs when trying to Seed of Corruption AE if something goes wrong. I can't imagine running through a higher level instance letting any meaningful melee dps hit the lock.
Seed of corruption should not be used unless they are all on your pet... even then it is a pain.

I use to do a similar thing with my warlock in AV (to take the mines) and farming lower level instances. Basically being sl/sl helps a ton, but you run straight down the middle, putting CoA and siphon life on everything. Siphon life will be more than enough healing, because the more mobs you have, the more you get healed. With my s3 warlock, those 2 spells were enough to kill pretty much anything I was farming, throw in a corruption in that rotation if you have to, just make sure siphone life goes on everything.

[Sanctume]

Okay so I tried out BRD this evening...that was about the worst instance I've ever seen to boost in :( Mobs were sooooo spread out, hit harder than I would of liked only allowing me to pull a small portion of the room at a time not to mention that mobs reset in this zone which wouldn't allow you to pull a big pull anyways. But the worst thing of all was the over abundance of nets that you got casted on you making it damn near impossible to move. No imho BRD is horrible place to power boost in.

I did do ZF later on this morning and I must say, I love this place on my paladin :D I can mount which allows me to pull tons of mobs in a very short amount of time and recieve very little dmg in the process. And there are 3 seperate rooms that are condense with mobs that give tons of xp, bug room, graveyard, the pyramid event.

There were a few annoying things about ZF however but suprisingly it was not the healing totems at all that annoyed me as I've seen many people have suggested would...
1. Caster mobs run away forever and then some, especially in the first corridor before the fountain. Often have to chase them down because they just don't seem to want to come back to you.
2. Hex from the shadow hunters can be very deadly if not removed off you main extremely quickly. It doesn't happen much but with pulls with even a few hunters you'd better be rdy to either dispell it or bubble out of it and /cancelaura divine shield or you can /wave to all that xp :(

These aren't anything that can't be overcome and overall I really like this place for boosting on my pally.The only mobs that you have to worry about nets is the first circle room with roamer dogs. My pally can gather them all in one run, using 1 Blessing of Freedom, and switching to Blessing of Sanctuary after BoF expires. That is enough to gather all the middle mobs and into a nice cluster where Sol/Sow + HS + Consecrate does its work.

After this first room, the mobs on the right side do throw nets, but you don't have to pull them.

One pull midway the left corridor of the arena. One pull from the Dog Boss and the right side. One pull from the locked door on your left. That should be worth 12.5 minutes of pulls and kills.

[daviddoran]

I have a Holy Pally, and I do ZF all the time. I guess being able to holy shock myself is what makes the difference, and my spell dmg is quite high, so consecration ticks for a lot. I always do mounted pulls, up to the first "room" for the first pull, and LOS them around some of the ruins. I usually start off with Avenging Wrath with my consecration, it does some nice burst dmg. I tried switching some prot gear in, and I just didn't do enough dmg. I also have the Skullflame Shield, with a spike, so I do extra dmg that way, and it heals me a bit too. Occasionally I will bubble heal, but I have to be just at the max xp range for it to be worth while, or scramble to run the alts out of the instance. Before it was gimped I used to do the trick of getting them really low, and zoning out, and then my hunter/pet does the last 2% for full xp, but it usually ended with the hunter dying...

[gigauae]

any idea how to conunter hex effect on paladin who is boosting a 4x shaman? i have a hard time in ST and ZF :(

[Vyndree]

Ok, so I have done ZF and just finished boosting a 2nd set of lowbies to 45 WITHOUT ZF.

ZF:
Lowbie group composition -- Rogue, Warrior, Paladin, Druid -- paladin and rogue controlled by Suvega and my lowbies /following him.

Pulls:
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/2381/zfqw4.th.jpg (http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfqw4.jpg)

Notes:
Pull ALOT. The more parries you get the faster you'll kill things. Shadowhunters are the ones that frog you -- and yes, it hurts. You can bubble a frog IF your lowbies are way out of aggro range and out of combat. I prioritize killing Shadowhunters first, then the healers. You WILL have to hunt down and kill the healers while they run -- your DPS is less than their mana regen, so they will just heal to full and come back. Just melee them while they're running away.

The pulls are big and last forever thanks to those healers. Pick up everything while mounted and use Crusader Aura. Find a good spot to tank everything (where the lowbies are well out of aggro range) and only bring your lowbies near if you are near-death and need heals/dispells. If they do come to heal, stand at max dispel range so that you can taunt off the lowbie after you get de-frogged. Be prepared for some unlucky wipes if you get frogged off your mount while pulling.

Consider it impossible to do if you don't have a dispeller. If you do small pulls, the pulls last FOREVER. If you do big pulls, you'll get frogged and die because you can't dodge/block/parry as a frog.


2nd option....

SM: Cath until 45

It's not fun, but it's HEAVEN compared to ZF. 44-45 took me 4-5 SM runs to complete, but even so it's not bad. You can do SM with your eyes closed. You never die. Plus -- the lowbies can help finish up Mograine/Whitemane at the end since they're the right level. This greatly speeds up the run time. Because I was hitting the instance cap pretty consistently once my lowbies started helping me on the DPS, I took a few visits to SM: Lib to get some particular gear pieces to help them when I start ACTUALLY needing heals in Strat. For example, picking up the robes from Doan and the shoulders will help your healers -- particularly if you're still wearing the level1 starter gear thanks to boosting. ;)

Here is my pull style -- I don't like pulling in 1 big go because I don't have the Figurine of the Collosus and I'm already hitting the instance cap as it is.

http://vboxing.net/v/index.php?q=node/72
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj5x3M2qpYQ


Conclusion:

SM Cath is slow from 40-45, but not nearly as slow as trying to chase down a million healers in ZF and wiping every time you get frogged. If you have a warlock to siphon-spam in ZF, or plan on single-DPSing the mobs down, ZF might be a better choice -- but it sucks for prot pallies.

[Skrimshaw]

I have used my 70 lock to boost all my groups. SM I just run none stop casting Siphon Life and Corruption on each mob, lifetap while running. ZF same thing. I run with Succy on defense with soul link off. I again pretty much go non stop to the room with all the scarabs, SoC them down, then run out and reset. Siphon life and corruption is enough to kill the mobs and the succy chases down the runners. SM I'm usually waiting on the "Too many Instances" so it is a fast way to boost.

RFC 8-10
WC 10-20
SM 20-44-45ish
ZF 44-48
Quest in all areas as fast as possible to 55.
55-58 Ramps

This is the way I did the shamans and currently doing my lock team. The lock team however I'm using 2 trial accounts to get them to 20 quick via RAF.

[gigauae]

nice plan m8, any idea how much xp/hr i can make with being my shamans are 42 now?

[gigauae]

i managed approx 37k/hr while slacking in SM and made it to lvl 43

[Schwarz]

I think I found an unhexable spot.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9906/wowscrnshot081808210241ea8.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot081808210241ea8.jpg)

I did this pull 8 times with hunters being at ranged and never got hexed when I tanked everyone here. I would get hexed when I moved away from this spot to clean up the last few guys if any hunter were still alive. I tried this on the oposite side of the boxes and got hexed there and got mobs evading me so i moved to this spot. Those boxes are at the very start of the instance on the right side.

Try it out and let me know if it works for you guys/gals.

BTW anything a pally can do I can do ;-)

[Vyndree]

got hexed there and got mobs evading me

Evade bugging mobs to gain some sort of in-game advantage is typically considered an exploit.

The dynamics of the instance is that shadowhunters can and will try to hex you. Evade bugging them so they don't hex you isn't exactly a smart move.

[Ticks]

I don't think you read his post correctly. He said if he stands on one side, he doesn't get hexed, if he stands on the other, the mobs evade. I don't think he wants either of the two to happen so he stands on the side shown in the screenshot. Where's the exploit?

[charsz]

Seed of corruption should not be used unless they are all on your pet... even then it is a pain.

I use to do a similar thing with my warlock in AV (to take the mines) and farming lower level instances. Basically being sl/sl helps a ton, but you run straight down the middle, putting CoA and siphon life on everything. Siphon life will be more than enough healing, because the more mobs you have, the more you get healed. With my s3 warlock, those 2 spells were enough to kill pretty much anything I was farming, throw in a corruption in that rotation if you have to, just make sure siphone life goes on everything.My tactic with lvl 70 lock is .... Seed of corruption. My lock is crappy and siphon + CoA is doing to slow to make it fast. So I went with some kind of sl/sl build and did that way:
pulled 7-10 mobs with my Void, and then put seed on last mob taken by void, while casting i switch target and put void on that target to taunt mob right after first SoC i cast another one on taunted mob, then another one. With my crappy gear (quests only) i manage to cast 3 sometimes 4 SoCs, and thats enough to take group down.
Its tricky, and I died few times.
Main problems:
Void moved after I ordered him to switch target so mobs moved and I LoSed them and cant be fast enough with SoCs. After first boom there isn't two another and mobs are angry. Sometime aoe taunt helps.
Gathered too much and reached aoe cap and some mobs still alive. Not big deal, siphon helps in these situations.
Can't take all mobs after doors. I'm clearing front of Morgaine, then right side with optional boss. Then I aggro Morgaine with void, before mobs come I put seed on boss then fast switching target.


But the main problem is XP. It takes me up to 2 hours of max concentration to lvl. Not much considering I can't use RAF (Poland sucks) and it was draining me. Did only 24-28 and went to questing with follow on warlock. Dinged 30 and got mount, now I can quest fast with decent guide.

With RAF I think this tactic with SoC will be viable.

[Schwarz]

I don't think you read his post correctly. He said if he stands on one side, he doesn't get hexed, if he stands on the other, the mobs evade. I don't think he wants either of the two to happen so he stands on the side shown in the screenshot. Where's the exploit?

I don't think this is any kind of an exploit like Ticks said. if you stand on one side you get the chance of being hexed or mobs evading you. Agreed these are both bad things. But if you stand in the spot that I showed in the screenshot then you shouldn't get hexed. Maybe running this 8 times wasn;t enough to tell if you will ever be hexed. The hunters stand at ranged and just shoot me. I think one time I had a couple come up close and I killed them quickly.

In short stand in my spot and you won't get hexed. Stand on the other side of the boxes you get evading mobs.

[Lyrix]

got hexed there and got mobs evading me

Evade bugging mobs to gain some sort of in-game advantage is typically considered an exploit.

The dynamics of the instance is that shadowhunters can and will try to hex you. Evade bugging them so they don't hex you isn't exactly a smart move.I think you need to re-read the post abit better then telling him hes using an exploit...
He's just saying when he moves to another spot he gets hexed and then the mobs evade on him.

[Vyndree]

I don't think you read his post correctly. He said if he stands on one side, he doesn't get hexed, if he stands on the other, the mobs evade. I don't think he wants either of the two to happen so he stands on the side shown in the screenshot. Where's the exploit?


I think you need to re-read the post abit better then telling him hes using an exploit...
He's just saying when he moves to another spot he gets hexed and then the mobs evade on him.

I didn't edit out his post for a reason, because it's currently gray-area. If it were very clearly an exploit it wouldn't be allowed on these forums and I would've edited it out.

He's saying if he stands in a certain spot, he does NOT get hexed. This doesn't seem in-line with the mechanics of the mobs -- they are SUPPOSED to try and hex you.
He then said that if he was not SPECIFIC about his spot, then the mobs evade. This also is not in-line with the mechanics of the mobs -- under normal circumstances mobs should never evade.

I just stated that anything involving evading mobs or causing them not to behave the way they should is typically considered an exploit. Typically. It's up to Blizzard to decide for sure, but I'd say his method would be "use at your own risk". It doesn't sound safe to me (and that statement right there is called OPINION).

[Schwarz]

I know I can't read tone from just text but I can see how alot of new people are turned off by these forums. I don't really appreciate the holy than you attitude. I stumble across something that I thought was interesting. I don't know why the shadowhunters just want to shoot me when I am in that spot and not hex me. But it seems to be reproducable. Thought some people might like this information also. to clear things up I offer this high tech picture

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8182/evadesg1.th.jpg (http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=evadesg1.jpg)



I just stated that anything involving evading mobs or causing them not to behave the way they should is typically considered an exploit.

So is LOS pulling considered an exploit also? Pretty sure casters NPC's are supposed to cast not run after you. Vyndree pretty sure you did this a couple times in your videos. Maybe you need to go through and re-edit your video to get rid of these "exploits"

[Vyndree]

I know I can't read tone from just text but I can see how alot of new people are turned off by these forums. I don't really appreciate the holy than you attitude. I stumble across something that I thought was interesting. I don't know why the shadowhunters just want to shoot me when I am in that spot and not hex me. But it seems to be reproducable. Thought some people might like this information also. to clear things up I offer this high tech picture

I'm not trying to be "holier than thou". I'm merely trying to be careful -- what you post here represents the community. You can't guarantee that your strategy is completely, 100% unbannable unless you've got a blue post to back it up. If you don't, I'm PERSONALLY uncomfortable having it being presented without the adequate amount of warning.

Take this for example:
Let's say RAF boosting was considered a bug (which it is) that ended up being bannable (which it is not -- but bear with me here)

We have tons of threads, tons and tons of threads, explaining HOW to boost and HOW to use the RAF bonus and exactly what you need to do to get things set up. We have a thread to show our pull strats and our /played time to 60. And, thanks to us, if the above statement happened and RAF boosting was considered a bannable exploit of a bug (which, let me repeat IT IS NOT -- this is just a hypothetical), we would have been partially responsible for the banning of other people's accounts.

If I'm harsh when it comes to the rules, think about that for a minute. I am harsh because I CARE about people not getting banned. I follow the rules TO THE LETTER as an example to the community. I NEVER promote something unless I am prepared to back it up with blue posts.

That being said, I never said your method WAS an exploit, just that it was very close. Close enough to make me, personally, uncomfortable. But if a blue waltzes into a thread on the official forums and says "hey, this is OK!" then I will instantly back down. All I care about is that people make SMART decisions based on FACTS, and people get advice that's COMPLETE. Your location where the hunters won't cast hexes may end up to be perfectly OK, or it may not. The fact that it's not certain is all that I was pointing out.

So, yes. I post warnings. I sometimes post in a matter-of-fact way that may come off as rude. You can hate me for locking threads, or posting quotes to blues, or for coming off as arrogant when I don't mean to -- but when push comes to shove, I want to stand up at the end of the day and say "Nobody who listened to my advice will ever get banned for it".


So is LOS pulling considered an exploit also? Pretty sure casters NPC's are supposed to cast not run after you. Vyndree pretty sure you did this a couple times in your videos. Maybe you need to go through and re-edit your video to get rid of these "exploits"

There is a major difference between line-of-sight, which is an intended mechanic, and line-of-sight-such-that-mobs-will-no-longer-be-able-to-use-all-of-their-abilities-on-you.

Your analogy completely disregards common sense.

If I line of sight, once mobs regain sight of me they can cast 100% of their normal abilities on me. Always. This is the way the game is intended to be played (hence why people hate the Nagrand arena and "pillar humping"). It's a tactic, not an exploit. Denying mobs from being able to use their abilities on you through the use of creative positioning?? That's borderline abuse.

Example:
Sethekk halls, last boss. He casts and AoE. You hide behind a pillar to not get hit by said AoE. <-- intended game mechanic, non-bannable
Raptor boss, ZF. You stand somewhere I'm not going to mention on these forums such that the raptor pet cannot attack you. He is PREVENTED from doing his normal abilities thanks to where YOU chose to stand -- and you CHOSE to stand there BECAUSE he would be unable to use those abilities. <-- unintended bug, exploitation, bannable
I was in a raid that wanted to do this pre-BC. I left the raid once I realized their strat was exploitative and could potentially get me banned. Did they get banned for doing it? To my knowledge, no -- I didn't report them (though I should have). Does that mean I wouldn't have gotten banned for doing that along with them? No -- one report and I would be out of an account.

If you want me to back off on what I feel is a justifiable FYI to the community about gray-area pulls that might be considered exploitative, then just post on the official Blizzard forums (typically Customer Service forums) and ask "Is this considered an exploit? Would this be bannable?". You get an answer like that, and there's no need for me to inform the community.


I post what I post because I want people to make decisions with all the puzzle pieces in place. I didn't mock you, berate you, or personally attack you in any way -- I simply stated, matter-of-fact, that pulls involving evading and/or abnormal mob behavior CAN also be exploits. Buyer beware.

[Ticks]

This whole thread reminds me of when I was in high school and the teachers had kids monitoring the halls for other kids skipping classes. Those kids weren't liked much. :P

[Vyndree]

This whole thread reminds me of when I was in high school and the teachers had kids monitoring the halls for other kids skipping classes. Those kids weren't liked much. :P

Good thing I was homeschooled. ;)

I'm not interested in a popularity contest. If I have to be the hall monitor in order to keep the community safe from itself, so be it. ;) I get to be the snarky meanie moderator who sleeps well at night knowing all of your accounts are safe.

[Stabface]

I am uploading a little video for you guys... keep an eye on my video list. :)

http://www.gamevee.com/user/Stabface

[Schwarz]

I am uploading a little video for you guys... keep an eye on my video list. :)

http://www.gamevee.com/user/Stabface

thanks stabface. I guess the question is do you need blizzards permission to stand 21 yards away from a npc that does ranged attacks?

[Stabface]

Er, that's a question?

[Vyndree]

thanks stabface. I guess the question is do you need blizzards permission to stand 21 yards away from a npc that does ranged attacks?

Depends.

If you stand somewhere where a melee mob is unable to hit you with melee attacks (ZF raptor), then yes.
If you stand out of line of sight such that a caster walks into line of sight to continue to cast all of their standard abilities on you, then no.

What you've described denies a mob from being able to cast all of their standard abilities on you -- however they are still able to shoot you. So, like I've said earlier, it's "gray area" -- it doesn't cleanly fall into either category. The only person who can answer your question is Blizzard and Blizzard alone.

Like I said earlier in this thread -- if you want to ask Blizzard you are welcome to do so. Being snarky in a thread isn't exactly going to get you the answers that you seek, nor my respect. I'm very, VERY happy to admit "Hey, I'm wrong" if you can get Blizzard to confirm what you've described is NOT an exploit nor bannable.
EDIT: I've done it for you -- http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9023669418&postId=90227799776&sid=1#0

[Schwarz]

Vyndree automatically assuming that I am doing something wrong isn't going to gain my respect either.


Evade bugging mobs to gain some sort of in-game advantage is typically considered an exploit.

The dynamics of the instance is that shadowhunters can and will try to hex you. Evade bugging them so they don't hex you isn't exactly a smart move.



When you make comments like this you are in a round about way call me a cheater. So stabface explains that if you stand past 20 yards then you won't get hexed. So it could be the case that I found a pull/spot where the hunters don't come within 20 yards of me. This sounds like it makes sense to me because when I move away from my spot toward them I get hexed.

[Vyndree]

This sounds like it makes sense to me because when I move away from my spot toward them I get hexed.

Well if this is what makes sense to Blizzard, then I will owe you an apology (though I still fail to see how I was attacking you in particular -- I just don't agree with questionable strats).

The way it sounds TO ME is that anything that prevents a mob from executing its INTENDED attack mechanic is an exploit. It's up to Blizzard to say whether or not your method is intended.

In my OPINION your pull strat is much like the exploit for prince -- there is, indeed, a particular place where you can stand where you will NEVER get hit by infernals. Sure, the infernals still drop in their normal places, but you're completely avoiding the mechanics of the encounter through the use of "creative" positioning. No, they don't evade. They still do their normal abilities. But, in essence, thanks to positioning -- you completely avoid the consequences of their abilties. That's the similarity I pull between an exploit and your strat -- and the similarity, in my opinion, is why it would not be smart to utilize it before you get confirmation from Blizzard that it's ok.


At least I put my money where my mouth is. If Blizzard says it's ok -- I will "man up" and apologize.

If Blizzard says it's not -- will you? Or will you continue with this hissy fit? Nothing will come from "I think", "You think" -- at least I stepped up to the plate and asked what Blizzard thinks. Which is the only resolution to our differing opinions.

[Schwarz]

If Blizzard says it's not -- will you? Or will you continue with this hissy fit? Nothing will come from "I think", "You think" -- at least I stepped up to the plate and asked what Blizzard thinks. Which is the only resolution to our differing opinions.

Sure. I am sorry Vyndree ;-)

[Vyndree]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9023669418&pageNo=1&sid=1#1

I took a look and it looks okay. Creative use of game mechanics and all that.

In the event that this changes, I'll let you know. :)

There, was that so hard? You take a questionable strat, you get Blizzard's opinion, and then you can feel safe using it.

I apologize for any hostility that came off from my posts. Like I said, my intention is only to make sure nobody gets banned over questionable activities. Now that Blizzard has confirmed it's OK, it's no longer questionable.

So there ya go. Next time do your own investigative work -- if something is even remotely "gray area" all you have to do is ticket a GM or ask on the CS forum. ;)

[Stabface]

Ever fought Aran and stood outside his silence effect while he shoots you with his other (longer range) spells?
Exactly what's happening here. The mob in question (Sandfury Shadowhunter) has 2 ranged abilities:
Shoot: 8-30 yard range
Hex: 20 yard range

If you stand beyond 20 yards they'll only use their Shoot ability. If you stand inside of 8 yards then they will only use their Hex (along with meleeing you of course). If you stand between 8 and 20 yards away they will use both Hex and Shoot, but not melee you.

So no matter where you stand, certain abilities will not be able to be used by the mob in question.

It's not an hexploit... it is the way the mob -- and almost every mob with ranged abilities as a matter of fact - works.

[Vyndree]

It's not an hexploit... it is the way the mob -- and almost every mob with ranged abilities as a matter of fact - works.

I never said it was -- I said it was gray area. ;) Gray area that was recently clarified by our friend Belfaire.

There's very clear definition of exploitation by evading mobs. That's not the case here.
There's also very clear definition of exploitation by avoiding the repurcussion of certain mobs spells (i.e. the infernals in prince). There's also acceptable things -- like line of sight and out-ranging spells. The question in my mind -- was the "hex" portion of the shadowhunters an intended game mechanic that was purposely being avoided in a way that wasn't intended?

Hunter spells are a bit different. For one -- hunters aren't necesssarily supposed to have "spells". They're supposed to have ranged and melee attacks (and in the case of NPCs, a dead zone). Now, at the time of my post, it was unclear whether or not purposefully putting the hunter mob in a position where it was unable to use a certain "zone" (dead zone, melee zone, ranged zone) was an exploit. All I was pointing out was that it WAS unclear and had marked resemblance to things that ARE exploits. Of course, it resembles things that aren't exploits too, but the unclearness of the situation was the worry.

That's been clarified (at least for this situation). So there's really no argument. ;)


EDIT: I watched Stabface's how-to video and THIS makes more sense than "stand next to a certain box on a certain side because they evade on one side and won't hex you on the other". Stabface stepping through the mechanics, OUT IN THE OPEN without special positioning (besides outranging) makes the whole situation much more clear. Sadly I wasn't able to watch it earlier (I was at work) but his guide ('http://www.gamevee.com/viewVideo/World_of_Warcraft/PC/ZF__Avoiding_Hex_and_Totems/646936') sheds alot more light on the how and why.

So, in fact, it's not just a specific box and a specific place. This behavior can be repeated out in the open without the use of special locations.

[Stabface]

:thumbsup:

mad skills
i haz dem

[moleh]

After reading the entire thread in one go I do think Vyndree is right to be cautious as if someone looks at this site and at a pull strategy or a way of killing a mob and thinks "wow never thought of that". Then they go and do it and gets banned they are going to blame the site, and rightly so. Its up to the modirators and community to look out for themselfs and each other to make sure we dont get into trouble. If people know the risks and decide to use it anyways then that fair enough its up to them but giving people the full facts to do this is what needs to happen. I thought when I read this pull straterge it sounded like an exploit and basicly looked after myself and decided not to use it. When Vyndree saw it she thought it was possibely an exploit and tried to look after other people aswell as herlsef so I find it hard to see why you taking it SO personnally.

Dont discorrage people to be cautious IMO it can't bring anything bad to you or the other people reading it and at the end of the day it could stop you or someone else getting banned or running into other difficulties.

Moleh

[Toogi]

I think I missed the part where someone explains how you kill the shadowhunters as a prot paladin. I think anyone who has played a hunter or dueled a warrior as a caster will get the range dancing part but I still don't see how you kill them without getting hexed. Avoiding it alone isn't helpful.

[Stabface]

Hex is only a problem when it happens while there's a ton of mobs beating on you.
Once you kill everything off while avoiding hex, you can then kill the Shadowhunters at your leisure.

[Vyndree]

I think I missed the part where someone explains how you kill the shadowhunters as a prot paladin.


I am uploading a little video for you guys... keep an eye on my video list.

http://www.gamevee.com/user/Stabface


For clarity. :)

[Toogi]

For clarity. :)Guess I thought avoiding it meant avoiding it while killing them. Thanks

[Stabface]

You could do so if you had ranged DPS.