60-Boxer on Emerald Dream

[Ñightsham]

Not sure if all here have seen this post ...

Interesting complaint about multi-boxing again (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19890939660?page=1)

[ebony]

ha funny post, Well just QQ really because they not got money to do it or though the big mutiboxers (all three of them) i think its more of the phasing problem then the boxers as even you was solo 200 vs 200 is not not going to help boxer or no boxer.

anyway.

[CMKCot]

im going to say something here, so i can say "i told you so" later.

shit like this is why CCP changed their TOS. you know it, we all know it.

they WILL end multiboxing in wow. and you will have no one to blame but yourselves.

i know mirai runs this place and usually reads it. so please, think with your head and understand, you MUST limit the number of characters isboxer can run or you will lose the only game that is giving you money i dont care if the dude running 80, 100 or whatever wows is your life long e-friend, get rid of him, he will cost you your livelihood.

it WILL happen if you do nothing, i don't care how you guys try to lawyer your way around it, when tasked with it, Blizzard wont limit the number of logins to a sensible value, they will just limit logins entirely, or remove every feature wow has that makes it boxing friendly. exactly like CCP did.

and no, they don't care about eroding the legal precedent that gave them the memory region protection years ago, they just don't care anymore about it, they know that if they lobby hard enough they can get a lot more out of politicians, so we cant count on that either.

and we boxers MUST make the lives of this idiots a living nightmare, we have to camp them out of existence, they are shit and are ruining our fun. im from KJ and we have to deal with that prepared simpleton who keeps crashing the zone outside org... constantly.

been boxing for almost a decade now, using initially nothing but alt+tab. and I've see this pattern develop in three different games so far. as soon a retards start making 80+ alts and the boxing community doesn't call them out on the complete idiocy and lack of any skill on what they are doing the player base gets fed up, they bitch long enough and boxing is over.

i know there are other tools out there, but we have to at least show some good faith.

[ebony]

Well mirai does not run isboxer lax does. And most the 40+ boxers dont post here or care.

[Lyonheart]

I can understand that argument that if one person is running so many accounts that it makes the game unplayable, to laggy etc..then limiting the amount of accounts. It does not mater if it only a small number of multiboxers do this, it makes us all look bad imo. I would 100% be cool with them limiting us to 10 accounts( for raids ).

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Are you asserting that multiboxers don't report people for abusing game mechanics or violating EULA rules? /me is confused, but maybe I'm just a simpleton.


the boxing community doesn't call them out on the complete idiocy and lack of any skill on what they are doing the player base gets fed up, they bitch long enough and boxing is over.
Stick with objective facts; that 'lack of skill' canard is old, tired, and repeatedly proven false, usually by butthurt people that couldn't strategize their way out of a wet paper bag. Furthermore, I would submit that the proper purview of this problem of a few people intentionally* crashing zones is a "disruption of the game servers" type of GM ticket under EULA clause 1(C)(ix). Unless you expect multiboxers to just give up and abandon their hobby because a few bad apples are being douchebags? You're not a college student perchance, are you?

* Intentionally meaning they know it crashes the zone either more often or more quickly than normal, so repeatedly doing it would seem to be an abuse of game mechanics, especially if they're dropping 40-100+ pets/banners/whatever to purposely exacerbate the situation. I'm kinda surprised that if this has been going on this long (and judging by the twitter stuff, it has been) and with the gazillions of complaints these folks have surely gotten every day that it is still going on. IT'S LIKE BLIZZARD DOESN'T EVEN GIVE A SHIT. Why ever could that be...

Again, just in case it wasn't clear, I'm not arguing that WoW might eventually decide to kill off multiboxing. I'm just saying that fratricide is not going to achieve your aims or sway the opinions of people who clearly do not listen to us and never have. ;)


Well mirai does not run isboxer lax does. And most the 40+ boxers dont post here or care.
I don't think he/she/it was addressing the 40+boxers but the ISBoxer dev primarily.

[Fat Tire]

as soon a retards start making 80+ alts and the boxing community doesn't call them out on the complete idiocy and lack of any skill

I knew 79 was the sweet spot

...and all this shit was answered 5 hours ago. I am sure Mirai can clean up my post and make it nice and pretty.


Posted by Jalën (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210?page=1#1)
Why do you allow this Blizzard?
For the same reason we allow you to have multiple World of Warcraft licenses on your Battle.net account and to be registered to multiple Battle.net accounts. If we didn't then you could not create an account to be used by a minor child (that you are the parent or legal guardian of). You'd be restricted to having a single account, ever.

Multiboxing is not a supported playstyle, but it doesn't violate our policies.
11/20/2015 11:41 AMPosted by Jalën (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210?page=1#1)
Didn't you ban Swifty for a server crash?
Not exactly. That is the problem with this one, most people have very little understanding of the actual events that happened. The penalty you are referring to was done in error. After a more thorough investigation it was overturned.
11/20/2015 11:41 AMPosted by Jalën (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210?page=1#1)
Some people would say, "just ignore it", but how can I ignore an issue that is the result of constant server crashes? How is it that something like this is allowed in World of Warcraft?
Because that generally doesn't happen. While your connection may be impacted by having a lot of characters in an area, it rarely impacts server stability.
11/20/2015 11:41 AMPosted by Jalën (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210?page=1#1)
The only benefit that I see is that it fills up your wallets with money.

Another misconception. Yes, a multiboxer may pay more in game purchases and subscription fees than you do, but that doesn't necessarily translate into more revenue. Encounters with a multiboxer may have a negative impact on another players game experience, because going up against 5 characters as 1 can be frustrating. So in the end that multiboxer may have cost us a player, and that can happen at any time.

It is allowed because the activity doesn't violate policy, period.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210
Posted by Askari (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210?page=1#7)
I would suggest any blue go take a look at the Emerald Dream forums right now and see that our community is railing at the moment. Seriously, go take a look.
What posts are created on the forum isn't indicative of how the server itself is behaving. During those times there are certainly drops,I can see them, but the realm/zone/instance itself does not go offline. There are population drops, but those don't zero out either.

That is more indicative of the individual users systems and connections as the area remains online and populated.
11/20/2015 12:14 PMPosted by Askari (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210?page=1#16)
Im curious how 1 person piloting 80 toons isnt considered botting?
Because unless they are using a different method outside the normal ones used by the majority of multiboxers, they are otherwise in direct control of the characters.
11/20/2015 12:05 PMPosted by Jalën (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210?page=1#8)
Based on this blue post, we should just all sit on our hands and do nothing about it.
No, I'm saying the activity that is often associated with multiboxers, is not considered to be a violation of our policies. From a CS point of view there is nothing that we'd be able to do.

If you believe they are somehow exploiting, or intentionally causing realm issues, using the right click report option or sending an email to hacks@blizzard.com with relevant information would be the course of action you'd want to take.

If this is a practice that you think should not be allowed or at least limited, you'll need to submit your feedback to our Development team. You can do that by posting in the General Discussion forum and/or submitting your suggestions via the in-game interface option.
11/20/2015 12:05 PMPosted by Rasek (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210?page=1#9)
Yeah the whole "They don't affect servers" is silly, considering Emerald Dream has been brought down a ton this week alone due to too many characters fighting in a single space.
To be clear, no, it hasn't. There was an issue yesterday with several realms, Emerald Dream included, but the realm itself outside of this week's maintenance has not had any other major incidences.
11/20/2015 12:14 PMPosted by Askari (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19972717210?page=1#16)
Lets be honest though, Blizz only cares about money; but yet they wonder why subs are so low.
That may be your honest opinion, Askari, but that is what it is, an opinion. While we absolutely value the opinion you may have, that doesn't make it accurate. It is unfortunate that those that voice such an opinion that we "only care about money" are rarely apt to change their mind, even with all evidence to the contrary.

As I heard one of our Developers say recently, it is our games that bring in the revenue but the revenue does not drive the decisions about our games.

I think this discussion has run its course.

[ebony]

oh i forgot to say our 40 mutliboxer on outland used to raid stromshild a lot, one time (last few months) he got told by a gamemaster to leave the zone and stay away from it as it was infarct making the server lag for them and they could tell from hardware logs of the realms that it was not coping well.
He did not banned and took the note and just stayed to sw/if and other zones that was not as painful for the servers. So blizzard doing nothing is a lie.

And talking about realm stable-able Outland eu had a guild that was using lag switches (players out there to crash the realm) to get a easier win he got a full ban last mouth for this. so blizzard does do stuff about this.


outland-eu sounds as bad as this us server.




But like the blue posts say to ban us there going to have to stop real players using the tools we use and its not fair on them to what stop a handful of mutiboxers and that post might have a lot of posts but to be fair it could only be 3 or 4 players kicking off and using other accounts to post off. and once one starts the others join in.


we always been hated nothing going to change, even though half the time we die fast just when we don't!

[Fat Tire]

Gotta admit now I want to make a team on Emerald Dream....

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I knew 79 was the sweet spot heh ;)


It is allowed because the activity doesn't violate policy, period.

That may be your honest opinion, Askari, but that is what it is, an opinion. While we absolutely value the opinion you may have, that doesn't make it accurate. It is unfortunate that those that voice such an opinion that we "only care about money" are rarely apt to change their mind, even with all evidence to the contrary.

I think this discussion has run its course.

/thread

1574

[EaTCarbS]

my 2 cents: lol blizzard's game cant even run a 100 people in an area without crashing. Reminds me of when casting 10x army of the dead would lag out the AV server. complete trash.

[Wubsie]

TLDR: People are mad at Prep for being Prep.

I would be fine with liming the amount of accounts allowed in WoW for a single person to something less ridiculous (10-20?) to reduce the negative effects a few people have on many others and to promote skilled gameplay over brute force with numbers. However, if seen required, it is the responsibility of the game developer to instate and enforce such rules. Limiting the capabilities of ISBoxer to start enforcing our own rules within the boxer community to limit the options of users and as would be the case here, targetting a few specific individuals to stop them from playing within the boundaries of the game's TOS, does not seem like the correct response to me. It is not the place of this comminuty to attempt and regulate what is and is not acceptable in each individual game.

This of course does not mean that we as a community need to condone everything that can be done without breaking the rules of any individual game. Plenty of behaviour even people playing single characters, that fall within the rules given by developers, are fine but still fall very much under the "dick move" category (e.g: continuosly ganking low level players, killing quest mobs, etc). While they are seen as negative and I would assume most of us would denounce such activities (to an extent anyways), it is simply not up to us to create and enforce rules regarding these kinds of issues.


my 2 cents: lol blizzard's game cant even run a 100 people in an area without crashing. Reminds me of when casting 10x army of the dead would lag out the AV server. complete trash.
Oh, you don't even need that many. Belinda defense with my 8 DKs can freeze the instance for a good 15 seconds. -.-

[zenga]

For me multiboxing is all about what the Krushpack/Ellay videos showcase. Being in full control of what your 4-5 chars do, and being completely aware of your surroundings. That is a completely different thing from running around with godmode turned on with 40+ chars.

There is some idiot on my realm cluster who just stands in one of the MoP cities killing off everyone who tries to take a portal, for hours on end, with a raid full of toons (can't even say if he has 30 or 50). I just makes me log out or change toons/do something else. What's the fucking point even. If that is what is allowed and the game admins decide that it's not a problem, fair enough but I think (and act) different.

If people leave church after a wedding/funeral you are technically allowed to just go stand in the way with 40 people and sing funny songs. But that doesn't change the fact that it's completely moronic behavior and an absolute dick move. It's pretty much how I think about the boxers who run large groups in pvp.

[Ualaa]

I still get a kick out of these kind of threads.

[EaTCarbS]

There is some idiot on my realm cluster who just stands in one of the MoP cities killing off everyone who tries to take a portal, for hours on end, with a raid full of toons (can't even say if he has 30 or 50). I just makes me log out or change toons/do something else. What's the fucking point even. If that is what is allowed and the game admins decide that it's not a problem, fair enough but I think (and act) different.

http://i.imgur.com/KLT0Ihq.jpg

[sparvath]

we have one too on the EU forums crying

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16518582061

[Andreauk]

we have one too on the EU forums crying

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16518582061

I understand their frustration.. in that situation they didn't have a shred of hope of winning. That kind of boxing I find out of order. When I box it involves me and only me.. I would never impact on anothers gameplay.

[ebony]

I understand their frustration.. in that situation they didn't have a shred of hope of winning. That kind of boxing I find out of order. When I box it involves me and only me.. I would never impact on anothers gameplay.

That arana is a mass mostly done by guilds or other runs. Stuff like that does not work in wow.

[sethlan]

80+ is lagging the server? it is lagging no matter what, Even if you put 150 people in the same area without any multiboxer, it will do that, to prevent server from crashing. (creates huge bubble around it and that area goes into - phase)

I remember on Darkspear, thrallmar - hellfire - Allliance would come and attack the starting area. Every damn day, not 1 guy, A guild with 10+ people and camp that area over and over....10 - 20 multiboxer steps in, they start crying about it.... that is not fair.

They also raided ORG every damn day. Not anymore. You cant access the mailbox or ah? plenty of areas to go and access that .

It is a video game.

[Andreauk]

That arana is a mass mostly done by guilds or other runs. Stuff like that does not work in wow.

I wouldn't mind being killed by a guild.. but 1 person killing me then themselves just to win?

[Ughmahedhurtz]

we have one too on the EU forums crying

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16518582061

That moment when you realize an entire faction can't find a competent fear-bomber(s)...

[BuGsY]

Before it was edited out, this SS was on http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20043054994?page=1

1586

Maybe we should be louder. Preparedwow's actions could cause rules to implemented that would hurt us.

[Noxdiebox]

R.I.P. WoW Multiboxing

[ebony]

Before it was edited out, this SS was on http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20043054994?page=1

1586

Maybe we should be louder. Preparedwow's actions could cause rules to implemented that would hurt us.


am not really that worried this could be anything.

[Tin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU9gQWTjoB8

[Ughmahedhurtz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU9gQWTjoB8

Saw that. Honestly, I agree with him that it has nothing to do with multiboxing -- it's about people knowingly causing game server instability in violation of the ToS; the tool is irrelevant. The only remaining question is, will Blizzard view it the same way. I suspect so but time will tell.

[MiRai]

i know mirai runs this place and usually reads it. so please, think with your head and understand, you MUST limit the number of characters isboxer can run or you will lose the only game that is giving you money i dont care if the dude running 80, 100 or whatever wows is your life long e-friend, get rid of him, he will cost you your livelihood.
For clarification (because this isn't the first time someone has mistaken my role)... I do not own this domain, I do not run this forum, and I do not directly work on, or develop, ISBoxer. I am one of several moderators on this forum, and I make videos on YouTube related to multiboxing with ISBoxer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU9gQWTjoB8
Did you want to add something to the discussion in addition to the link? When you just drop a link (with no context) it almost looks as if you're just trying to get people to click on something... Unless you're Asmongold!

I watched the video the day it came out, and I replied directly to Asmongold to let him know that there were others (perhaps, a majority?) in the community that felt the same way.


Saw that. Honestly, I agree with him that it has nothing to do with multiboxing -- it's about people knowingly causing game server instability in violation of the ToS; the tool is irrelevant. The only remaining question is, will Blizzard view it the same way. I suspect so but time will tell.
Yes, let us hope that if any decision is made, that Blizzard punishes the behavior, rather than the playstyle. I even released a video earlier today about it, and I tried to get the word to several Blizzard employees who might be part of any decision that may potentially be made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwAkFr46fhs

[zenga]

Blue Araxom just commented (https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/3wx14b/blizzard_has_gone_pay2ban_despicable/cy046g1?context=3) on the issue on reddit. His wording might lead to some speculation though: 'On a relative note, we've seen a significant uptick in the number of multiboxing concerns that have been brought up across the various channels and we're currently in talks about the subject'.
While it sounds to me at first sight that 'the subject' is related to multiboxing, it links to another blue post that says that they are looking into this one particular subject (i.e. the massive boxer) and not multiboxing in general.

[Syferr]

It sucks that we could all suffer just because of one persons actions. I don't know why he dose not realise this himself, he obviously loves the game or is it more the fact that he thinks hes a god running around 1 vs 100 people and calling them weak players on his stream.

[Fat Tire]

It sucks that we could all suffer

Suffer how? dont speculate

[Lyonheart]

Yes, let us hope that if any decision is made, that Blizzard punishes the behavior, rather than the playstyle. I even released a video earlier today about it, and I tried to get the word to several Blizzard employees who might be part of any decision that may potentially be made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwAkFr46fhs

Good stuff! Thank you for that Mirai!

[Fat Tire]

Good stuff! Thank you for that Mirai!

I didnt watch, but I am guessing I would agree with the mirai opinion. Did the video touch on this websites obvious bias against him? I mean he is still ip banned on this site right? Does he use isboxer? hmmm

[MiRai]

I'd like to make it clear that it's 40-60 accounts, not 100+. I'm going to edit the title of this thread to be less misleading.


Blue Araxom just commented (https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/3wx14b/blizzard_has_gone_pay2ban_despicable/cy046g1?context=3) on the issue on reddit. His wording might lead to some speculation though: 'On a relative note, we've seen a significant uptick in the number of multiboxing concerns that have been brought up across the various channels and we're currently in talks about the subject'.
While it sounds to me at first sight that 'the subject' is related to multiboxing, it links to another blue post that says that they are looking into this one particular subject (i.e. the massive boxer) and not multiboxing in general.
Interesting.


I didnt watch, but I am guessing I would agree with the mirai opinion. Did the video touch on this websites obvious bias against him? I mean he is still ip banned on this site right? Does he use isboxer? hmmm
The video makes no claims, and mentions no names. It only asks that "if the multiboxing playstyle is under review due to a few disruptive, large-scale multiboxers, that any changes made to it, not adversely affect the small-scale multiboxing playstyle," as well as states, "toxic players and their toxicity should be dealt with on a per-player basis."

[ebony]

I watched pepard last night and he was not killing ever player he see. He was not making the server lag using toys etc. This seems part of an ongoing "guild" wars where they used to hop onto dark spire so he says he took the war there.


And his playing 60 accounts. Just sounds like outland drama to me (EU). Or though the player that's been saying we lag the server has been banned 2 times in the last month

[JohnGabriel]

I was 5-boxing earlier in Tanaan jungle when I was attacked by a single alliance toon who I quickly destroyed, like duh I had 5. About 20 minutes later I hearth to Warspear and I see in the chat channel some sort of chat bot saying "Report [Shame][Branched][Schreech][Bently][Beaute] for botting." and being sent over and over again. Sometimes it said "for botting" but that part of the chat changed.

They are using bots to try to stop boxers. I didn't say anything, there were already half a dozen people getting annoyed with him and "reporting for reporting" comments.

[Selzmultibox]

JohnGabriel exaxtly this kind of msg, i bet ur names were colered aswell, are not real. It's a joke be cause some people have found a code to type in chat that will make ur name appear. So when others saw that msg their very own name was listed. I saw one do it with free gold, and whole tradechat kind of went crazy. So there is nothing to be afraid of in youre case :)

And yes it does list even multiboxed chars.

[MadMilitia]

It most likely will affect all of us in a very adverse way. Just knowing how these kind of things squeak their way through the corporate domain doesn't give me a lot of hope.

It will take development time to accommodate what should be done.

Ex: Allow one bnet account more wow accounts and then limit things like follow to bnet account only, then restrictions based on number of logged in sessions.

2 - no restrictions and officially supported.
3 - bg restriction
5 - pvp restriction
10+ phasing restriction.

That takes development effort though. I hope that they consider this but again, the cost to do it might outweigh the benefit of doing it.

I could very easily see this decision to ban all multiboxers coming down from the executive level from someone who has never played the game let alone explored the playstyle.

[Fat Tire]

I could very easily see this decision to ban all multiboxers coming down from the executive level from someone who has never played the game let alone explored the playstyle.

The world of warcraft's game director - Tom Chilton aka Kalgan has publicly said he mutiboxes.

As for the restrictions I would be ok with them

[MadMilitia]

The world of warcraft's game director - Tom Chilton aka Kalgan has publicly said he mutiboxes.

As for the restrictions I would be ok with them

Ah, I didn't know that. So he probably dwells here from time to time.

That's cool. Yeah I think the mechanisms are needed. Mine come from having been involved in multiboxing since very early EQ ( via MQ ). I think the heart of multiboxing is in fact dual boxing. I like the complexity though I don't care if others want to box 40. The question is why as I view world PvP as an arms race. A huge waste of time and money on both sides of the argument. It just boils down to who has more and focus firing your way to victory. It reinforces the idea of having 40+ for what amounts to empty bragging rights.

The real multiboxer game is in arenas, challenge modes, etc. Doing something people would usually think impossible.

So it stands to reason someone can 10 man a rated BG but only if they occupy all 10 slots which prohibits them from queuing into randoms with a 5 or 10 man party. The same goes for LFD and LFR.

Phasing out 10+ permanently would also go a long way to removing the target from our backs, reduce the impulse purchase ( aka arms race ) and generally make both sides happier and probably healthier.

Mind this is all just me saying I prefer dual boxing and think that 40+ boxing boils down to something that isn't the true spirit of the playstyle.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

The question is why as I view world PvP as an arms race. A huge waste of time and money on both sides of the argument. It just boils down to who has more and focus firing your way to victory. It reinforces the idea of having 40+ for what amounts to empty bragging rights.
Well, don't forget that this "arms race" of whiners was going on well before multiboxing was a thing; we're just the equivalent of drag queens at the Marine Corps Ball, politically.


Mind this is all just me saying I prefer dual boxing and think that 40+ boxing boils down to something that isn't the true spirit of the playstyle.Ah, but "spirit of the playstyle" has no fixed meaning, never has, and never will. Ditto with PvP. Ganking lowbies isn't in the spirit of the playstyle if you're the lowbie but if you're an archetypical nub-pwner, It's Fine L2P. The arms race IS the entire raison d'etre of PvP; it's why there isn't a checkers MMO. ;)

[MadMilitia]

Well, don't forget that this "arms race" of whiners was going on well before multiboxing was a thing; we're just the equivalent of drag queens at the Marine Corps Ball, politically.

Ah, but "spirit of the playstyle" has no fixed meaning, never has, and never will. Ditto with PvP. Ganking lowbies isn't in the spirit of the playstyle if you're the lowbie but if you're an archetypical nub-pwner, It's Fine L2P. The arms race IS the entire raison d'etre of PvP; it's why there isn't a checkers MMO. ;)

I only need look at the title of the forum and to recall when this was new to know that the origins of dual boxing came long before the multiboxing we know today. It addressed a very specific niche for very few players. Players who were not challenged by playing a single character had the option of playing two. Then it went up to a party and ballooned out of control to what we see today.

I view this as a perversion. It reaches a point where the challenge is lost and it can only represent the ultimate form of griefing. Think about it this way. What is the impetus to buy a few more accounts whenever someone trounces us in world PvP? To win the next time, right? Lets forget about getting better on what you have. That is the sticking point for me. It moves away from actually learning how to play two characters and moves into a numbers game. Just add 20 more accounts with the same one button rotation and justify the cost by going around the world looking for a fight.

Why not do arenas? Why not try out challenge modes? The answer is they aren't actually looking for a challenge. They are looking for bragging rights to something that isn't even worth bragging about. A giant waste of time and money.

[Kayley]

PvP happened :'( so sad.

[ebony]

It most likely will affect all of us in a very adverse way. Just knowing how these kind of things squeak their way through the corporate domain doesn't give me a lot of hope.

It will take development time to accommodate what should be done.


If we go we go thats it.


Ex: Allow one bnet account more wow accounts and then limit things like follow to bnet account only, then restrictions based on number of logged in sessions.

This is really really silly so remove follow from the hole game just let mutiboxers use it NOT going to happen. sorry but that is just silly to think they would do this other players do use follow. I can not really see follow getting removed to be fair.

one bnet account per person is as well silly, so anyone that plays d3 and box's it can not do it.



2 - no restrictions and officially supported.

Not going to happen they would have to support software a tech support for us, if we want a change to make stuff easyer for us then they might have to. EG: HEY am a mutiboxer and dungons have to much aoe fix blizz, I BOX and my class does not work fix fix fix fix fix etc.


3 - bg restriction
Already in place and it works for them.


5 - pvp restriction
Follow removed when tagged for pvp great plan make all my chars Useless or make me pay to move servers great!


10+ phasing restriction.
Undo wod changes make life a lot easyer. and what about friends in big groups (eg summing outside raids)



That takes development effort though. I hope that they consider this but again, the cost to do it might outweigh the benefit of doing it.

I could very easily see this decision to ban all multiboxers coming down from the executive level from someone who has never played the game let alone explored the playstyle.

you said it right here. ban all multiboxers or though it be to hard keep tags on. something they let us do for 11 years.

Or keep it as is leave it and suck it up and if they was going to do somthing i would think it be done by now.

Or though i can see a full follow removed when tagged for pvp (with the new pvp mini zones back and other stuff.)

[Kayley]

Prepared: What do you call someone who doesn't multibox? an Unskilled-player.
Prepared: What do you call someone who multiboxes, but argues with other multiboxers? You call him MiRai!

I had a cheeky laugh at the second one ;)

[MadMilitia]

Not going to happen they would have to support software a tech support for us, if we want a change to make stuff easyer for us then they might have to.

You don't know that. A plea for a more difficult experience has historically been supported. Clearly the first step here is identifying acceptable ranges for multiboxing and applying restrictions beyond that.


Follow removed when tagged for pvp great plan make all my chars Useless or make me pay to move servers great!

I never suggested this. Follow wouldn't be removed. The ability to queue into the same random BG would be. 2-3 is really debatable but 5+ is not. Though I don't think a 10 boxer should be blocked from running a rated BG. So the rule would be if concurrent sessions greater than 3 there will be no queue random BG button for you. If you log one out ( down to 2 concurrent sessions ) and reload the interface the queue button will be back.

As for world PvP, you don't hit the phasing restriction until 10+. The PvP restriction at 5+ would be to flag you as neutral to vendors and such so that you can't grief towns doing it. You can still defend yourself when someone attacks you.

At 10+ concurrent sessions your squad would be phased out ( phased into their own server instance ) when out in the world.

[Selzmultibox]

Did you guys think about the removal of honor points and the fact that it is only tied to arena and bg in next expansion.

Perhaps what is needed to make 5 / 10 boxing the wanted thing to do is already in place.

[Fat Tire]

Did you guys think about the removal of honor points and the fact that it is only tied to arena and bg in next expansion.

Perhaps what is needed to make 5 / 10 boxing the wanted thing to do is already in place.

If I understand you correctly, and I like to think that I am. The changes in legion will have an impact on wpvp.

[MadMilitia]

Did you guys think about the removal of honor points and the fact that it is only tied to arena and bg in next expansion.

Perhaps what is needed to make 5 / 10 boxing the wanted thing to do is already in place.


The angst resolves around the notion that someone can have 5+ characters focus fire down someone else without them having much chance at doing anything / getting away. Some classes simply can't do it.

I do agree with them on that front. Once you reach a certain number, focus firing down people is really easy and doesn't take intimate knowledge of the class. This makes it more of a problem than say, 5 people who may or may not be focused on you. Even though 5 people generally stomp a 5 boxer.

[ebony]

Did you guys think about the removal of honor points and the fact that it is only tied to arena and bg in next expansion.

Perhaps what is needed to make 5 / 10 boxing the wanted thing to do is already in place.

no changes for wpvp blizzard said they be more wpvp then ever before. u get the new honor levels for honor kills in the world and quests there and killing old world bossess (maybe) and they said somthing about asking the guards to leave dala to take over the city!

chars will use the pvp templates when a char goes for you in the world (like pvp ilvl works now)

[Fat Tire]

chars will use the pvp templates when a char goes for you in the world (like pvp ilvl works now)

Wrong.


Looks fun!Will stat nullification(reallocation) activate upon entering pvp combat in open world or only in instance pvp?

Only in instanced PvP.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/677565040728236032

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Correct me if I'm taking your point(s) wrong.

The angst resolves around the notion that someone can have 5+ characters focus fire down someone else without them having much chance at doing anything / getting away. Some classes simply can't do it. We'll just agree to disagree about that. How is it _any_ different than a 700+iLvl fully-geared player camping a fresh 100? I'd argue that's even worse; at least with the 5+ boxer (or a coordinated team with voice comms), you knew you never had a chance unless you got more people, whereas 1v1 should always be marginally possible depending on individual derpiness. But with the difference in damage and procs between 5-man gear and top-tier raid gear, it's hardly even in the same sport. Hell, I've had healers get away from some of my 5-man teams because I simply could not burst through their heals. /shrug It probably bears remembering the uproar about pre-made BG groups (with the addon that allowed pre-mades to work after the nerfs to raid joining) roflstomping people that don't have voice comms or anything resembling leadership; you can't blame that on violating the spirit of the game or playstyle or whatever...

Furthermore, if the accounts=skill were generally true, then why can a 15-boxer repeatedly kill a 40-60-boxer? Or are you suggesting that there are multiple tiers of faceroll?


I do agree with them on that front. Once you reach a certain number, focus firing down people is really easy and doesn't take intimate knowledge of the class. This makes it more of a problem than say, 5 people who may or may not be focused on you. Even though 5 people generally stomp a 5 boxer.I'll remind you that 5-boxers have been bursting down people since Day 1, and it's a lot harder to do that over the last year or two due to resilience and health pool changes. Hell, that's been true even for solo classes e.g. Windfury+Arcanite Reaper shams, the old ret paladins, fury wars, some rogue builds, etc. etc.

[ebony]

Wrong.


Looks fun!Will stat nullification(reallocation) activate upon entering pvp combat in open world or only in instance pvp?

Only in instanced PvP.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/677565040728236032






Not what they said at a few months ago. But stuff changes it seems

[MadMilitia]

Correct me if I'm taking your point(s) wrong.
We'll just agree to disagree about that. How is it _any_ different than a 700+iLvl fully-geared player camping a fresh 100? I'd argue that's even worse; at least with the 5+ boxer (or a coordinated team with voice comms), you knew you never had a chance unless you got more people, whereas 1v1 should always be marginally possible depending on individual derpiness. But with the difference in damage and procs between 5-man gear and top-tier raid gear, it's hardly even in the same sport. Hell, I've had healers get away from some of my 5-man teams because I simply could not burst through their heals. /shrug It probably bears remembering the uproar about pre-made BG groups (with the addon that allowed pre-mades to work after the nerfs to raid joining) roflstomping people that don't have voice comms or anything resembling leadership; you can't blame that on violating the spirit of the game or playstyle or whatever...

It's different because a fresh 100 can escape a fully geared 100 pretty easily. I remember the infamous feral druid on Bleeding-Hollow that camps horde players tried to get my hunter one night. He got his bleeds up but in the end he couldn't kill me because he didn't put out enough damage to make it happen.

Some classes can put out insane damage in a short period but when you combine 5 classes together, if you really know what you are doing, nobody has any business escaping your wrath except classes that can bubble/hearth. Five ferals would have stomped my hunter very easily if they were all played to the degree that feral plays his.



Furthermore, if the accounts=skill were generally true, then why can a 15-boxer repeatedly kill a 40-60-boxer? Or are you suggesting that there are multiple tiers of faceroll?

I'll remind you that 5-boxers have been bursting down people since Day 1, and it's a lot harder to do that over the last year or two due to resilience and health pool changes. Hell, that's been true even for solo classes e.g. Windfury+Arcanite Reaper shams, the old ret paladins, fury wars, some rogue builds, etc. etc.

Well there are varying degrees of skill even multiboxing. I'd lean on the idea that a guy who boxes 60 is far less likely to have explored each class intimately than the guy who boxes 15.

Which is part of my appeal here. I think world PvP is a meaningless arms race in the case of a 60 boxer because you skirt learning how to play with just buying more accounts. It registers as cheap because it is.

Also, just because it has been going on forever doesn't make it right. I would be interested to see if dual boxing was the only way to play anymore how many boxers would stick around and get better on 2 rather than quit the game altogether.

[Smor]

http://www.twitch.tv/devolore/v/30360205?t=01h15m27s

For all of you doubting Blizzard.

[MiRai]

http://www.twitch.tv/devolore/v/30360205?t=01h15m27s

For all of you doubting Blizzard.
I don't think anyone is fully doubting Blizzard, but it helps to speak up, as a multiboxer, when multiboxing is under heavy fire. Also...

1) That's Lore's personal stream (i.e. He isn't a CM with blue text at that point)
2) He says, "I also don't get to make any of the decisions on that. So, don't take anything I say as gospel."

Beyond that, those on the Emerald Dream server are making a lot of noise about this, and rightfully so, since they can't even fight back at times (https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/3xbo5f/why_there_is_no_pvp_solution_to_mass_multiboxing/). However, it would seem that many, many people--more so than usual--are fighting against large-scale multiboxers specifically, but also defending the small-scale multiboxers.

[Kayley]

I've been watching/laughing during his streams at work. The servers are generally fine until certain guilds get involved that like to spam guild banners/toys, for whatever reason that causes servers to freak out. I am able to do this with 20 characters myself (but I don't).
Still, it is what it is and we will see what happens.

[Smor]

I don't think anyone is fully doubting Blizzard, but it helps to speak up, as a multiboxer, when multiboxing is under heavy fire. Also...

1) That's Lore's personal stream (i.e. He isn't a CM with blue text at that point)
2) He says, "I also don't get to make any of the decisions on that. So, don't take anything I say as gospel."

Beyond that, those on the Emerald Dream server are making a lot of noise about this, and rightfully so, since they can't even fight back at times (https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/3xbo5f/why_there_is_no_pvp_solution_to_mass_multiboxing/). However, it would seem that many, many people--more so than usual--are fighting against large-scale multiboxers specifically, but also defending the small-scale multiboxers.
Lore is basically Blizzard's representative. If he didn't know if they were going to ban multi-boxing or not, he would say "I don't know".

And about Emerald Dream, it's not just the 60 man multi-boxers fault. Anyone who is in the area and is casting spells contributes to the overall lag in the spell queue. Lag is inevitable, no matter how many players are in the area. The lag can be reduced though. If a players doesn't put down another non-stacking banner while there is already one down, then that can reduce lag. If a player doesn't cast any excess items into the battle that do not help at all, then lag can be reduced.

What Prepared does is fine. He's done 60 characters in the past, and Blizzard was fine with it. You want to know why they're fine with him doing 60 characters? It's because they treat it like he doing World PvP. If you replaced Prepared's 60 characters with 60 individual players that follow/assist the same person, then the same, if not, more lag is caused, which is inevitable.

Blizzard will NEVER ban multi-boxing because of a single person. Blizzard is not like the other shitty MMO companies. If a multi-boxer is PURPOSEFULLY causing lag (I don't see why they would want to), then they would BAN that person. If you don't believe me, then Prepared isn't the one you should be worried about getting multi-boxing banned. You should be worried about the 20 man alliance boxer who places down excess toys and casts fireworks in battle, filling up the spell queue with unnecessary items, not allowing other players spells to go off.

Let me state it again. You should not be worried about the state of multi-boxing.

[MiRai]

Lore is basically Blizzard's representative. If he didn't know if they were going to ban multi-boxing or not, he would say "I don't know".
If we want to be picky... To quote Lore on the stream you linked:

"Multiboxing itself, I don't think we have a problem with."

Sounds like he doesn't know.


And about Emerald Dream, it's not just the 60 man multi-boxers fault. Anyone who is in the area and is casting spells contributes to the overall lag in the spell queue. Lag is inevitable, no matter how many players are in the area. The lag can be reduced though. If a players doesn't put down another non-stacking banner while there is already one down, then that can reduce lag. If a player doesn't cast any excess items into the battle that do not help at all, then lag can be reduced.

What Prepared does is fine. He's done 60 characters in the past, and Blizzard was fine with it. You want to know why they're fine with him doing 60 characters? It's because they treat it like he doing World PvP. If you replaced Prepared's 60 characters with 60 individual players that follow/assist the same person, then the same, if not, more lag is caused, which is inevitable.

Blizzard will NEVER ban multi-boxing because of a single person. Blizzard is not like the other shitty MMO companies. If a multi-boxer is PURPOSEFULLY causing lag (I don't see why they would want to), then they would BAN that person. If you don't believe me, then Prepared isn't the one you should be worried about getting multi-boxing banned. You should be worried about the 20 man alliance boxer who places down excess toys and casts fireworks in battle, filling up the spell queue with unnecessary items, not allowing other players spells to go off.

Let me state it again. You should not be worried about the state of multi-boxing.
Now it all makes sense... You're in Prepared's guild on Emerald Dream. You're his buddy, and this is why you're defending him and his actions.

[Smor]

If we want to be picky... To quote Lore on the stream you linked:

"Multiboxing itself, I don't think we have a problem with."

Sounds like he doesn't know.


Now it all makes sense... You're in Prepared's guild on Emerald Dream. You're his buddy, and this is why you're defending him and his actions.
He actually does know. He's stated that he has brought up the subject before in meetings. Obviously, they do not have a problem with it. Otherwise, they would have banned it a long time ago.

And no, I am not in Prepared's guild. I am not in any of Prepared's guilds because I do not multi-box. I stopped a long time ago, but you can continue to say I am if it makes you feel better. :)

[MiRai]

He actually does know. He's stated that he has brought up the subject before in meetings. Obviously, they do not have a problem with it. Otherwise, they would have banned it a long time ago.
Bringing it up at a meeting means that he brought it up at a meeting. Whether he knows or not, for certain, is not known by you.


And no, I am not in Prepared's guild. I am not in any of Prepared's guilds because I do not multi-box. I stopped a long time ago, but you can continue to say I am if it makes you feel better. :)
I didn't say you were multiboxing alongside of him, or even at all; I said you were his buddy. If you're going to lie about it, then I have to call this out. Here goes...

You play characters which contain, but are not limited to, the name Bobbobolob and other variations of it. How do I know this? Because I do, and if you wish to know I'll gladly post the information here, but as of right now, I won't.

Here you are, on July 15th, 2015, multiboxing five characters on a Kazzak kill with Airborne (another multiboxer) from Sargeras (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cHZkMjCotI). You say you stopped multiboxing "a long time ago," but I'd hardly consider 5 months (assuming you stopped the very same week of uploading that video) to be a long time. (Mirror (http://i.imgur.com/q2DcoS3.jpg))

Here is a video from Prepared showing his guild roster on stream from earlier this month (https://youtu.be/ztbSsvyoPQ4?t=16m10s). Look who shows up! Hint: It's you! (Armory (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Bobbobolob/simple) / Mirror (http://i.imgur.com/nABlG6s.jpg) / Video Still (http://i.imgur.com/8DNdq3Y.jpg))

Here you are in an even more recent video shown right at the heart of battle with Prepared, ensuring that he's healed (http://i.imgur.com/UBlM6VL.jpg). I'll also point out that you defend Prepared and say that he does not use banners or fireworks, but you seem to be overlooking the fact that, when attacked, he instantly increases his numbers by using Blacksmith pets (http://i.imgur.com/3r5BGXp.jpg), in addition to the 20+ totems all pulsating in the same area and affecting all of his units combined.

Here's another raid (http://i.imgur.com/bQT5xO7.jpg) where you're hanging with Prepared.
Another raid on your character from Tichondrius (http://i.imgur.com/b2MfImo.jpg)--And before you try to pretend that's not you (http://i.imgur.com/KDt5quH.jpg). Coincidence? Unlikely.

Also, your argument about how "60 individual players that follow/assist the same person" from your prior post is slightly ridiculous because such a situation would never occur. No large-scale, world PvP raid is ever going to bunch up like that... Ever. Without /follow, there's no way to keep that many people, who all play from different locations in the country with varying latency, to stay on top of one another like a multiboxer does, as well as the fact that you cannot get that many players to focus fire on individual targets like that. This may sound like I'm arguing against multiboxing, in general, but the larger the group of single players, the less effective they become at such things, which is why small-scale multiboxing is hardly any different than a small-scale group that you may run into in the outside world.

So, in closing, I'm glad you could join us, Bobbobolob. For someone who claims they are not Prepared's friend, you sure seem to be hanging out with him quite often, as well as vehemently defending him wherever you go (http://i.imgur.com/7umCEQ1.jpg), while trying to ensure that "the other guy" is the actual problem. Just so everyone is clear, you're defending things like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIwmUUyuQYE) (mirror (http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=232905&stream=69)), and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjXfj76H9aM). I'm sure there are plenty more examples, but I don't have time to watch all of his videos to pick things out.

Update: It looks as if you're still multiboxing (like you said you weren't), and in Prepared's guild (like you said you weren't) (http://i.imgur.com/yAXBu6F.jpg).

[ebony]

Bringing it up at a meeting means that he brought it up at a meeting. Whether he knows or not, for certain, is not known by you.


I didn't say you were multiboxing alongside of him, or even at all; I said you were his buddy. If you're going to lie about it, then I have to call this out. Here goes...

You play characters which contain, but are not limited to, the name Bobbobolob and other variations of it. How do I know this? Because I do, and if you wish to know I'll gladly post the information here, but as of right now, I won't.

Here you are, on July 15th, 2015, multiboxing five characters on a Kazzak kill with Airborne (another multiboxer) from Sargeras (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cHZkMjCotI). You say you stopped multiboxing "a long time ago," but I'd hardly consider 5 months (assuming you stopped the very same week of uploading that video) to be a long time. (Mirror (http://i.imgur.com/q2DcoS3.jpg))

Here is a video from Prepared showing his guild roster on stream from earlier this month (https://youtu.be/ztbSsvyoPQ4?t=16m10s). Look who shows up! Hint: It's you! (Armory (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Bobbobolob/simple) / Mirror (http://i.imgur.com/nABlG6s.jpg) / Video Still (http://i.imgur.com/8DNdq3Y.jpg))

Here you are in an even more recent video shown right at the heart of battle with Prepared, ensuring that he's healed (http://i.imgur.com/UBlM6VL.jpg). I'll also point out that you defend Prepared and say that he does not use banners or fireworks, but you seem to be overlooking the fact that, when attacked, he instantly increases his numbers by using Blacksmith pets (http://i.imgur.com/3r5BGXp.jpg), in addition to the 20+ totems all pulsating in the same area and affecting all of his units combined.

Here's another raid (http://i.imgur.com/bQT5xO7.jpg) where you're hanging with Prepared.
Another raid on your character from Tichondrius (http://i.imgur.com/b2MfImo.jpg)--And before you try to pretend that's not you (http://i.imgur.com/KDt5quH.jpg). Coincidence? Unlikely.

Also, your argument about how "60 individual players that follow/assist the same person" from your prior post is slightly ridiculous because such a situation would never occur. No large-scale, world PvP raid is ever going to bunch up like that... Ever. Without /follow, there's no way to keep that many people, who all play from different locations in the country with varying latency, to stay on top of one another like a multiboxer does, as well as the fact that you cannot get that many players to focus fire on individual targets like that. This may sound like I'm arguing against multiboxing, in general, but the larger the group of single players, the less effective they become at such things, which is why small-scale multiboxing is hardly any different than a small-scale group that you may run into in the outside world.

So, in closing, I'm glad you could join us, Bobbobolob. For someone who claims they are not Prepared's friend, you sure seem to be hanging out with him quite often, as well as vehemently defending him wherever you go (http://i.imgur.com/7umCEQ1.jpg), while trying to ensure that "the other guy" is the actual problem. Just so everyone is clear, you're defending things like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIwmUUyuQYE) (mirror (http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=232905&stream=69)), and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjXfj76H9aM). I'm sure there are plenty more examples, but I don't have time to watch all of his videos to pick things out.


Note to self nerver upset MiRai (http://www.dual-boxing.com/members/24666-MiRai)

[zenga]

It's different because a fresh 100 can escape a fully geared 100 pretty easily. I remember the infamous feral druid on Bleeding-Hollow that camps horde players tried to get my hunter one night. He got his bleeds up but in the end he couldn't kill me because he didn't put out enough damage to make it happen.

That's quite a bogus example to backup your statement:
- you give the example of one shit feral that couldn't kill you
- you played a hunter, which is one of the 2 classes that is best equipped to get out of such trouble

I could literally name any other class combo (attacker/trying to get away) that prove you wrong.

[Smor]

Bringing it up at a meeting means that he brought it up at a meeting. Whether he knows or not, for certain, is not known by you.


I didn't say you were multiboxing alongside of him, or even at all; I said you were his buddy. If you're going to lie about it, then I have to call this out. Here goes...

You play characters which contain, but are not limited to, the name Bobbobolob and other variations of it. How do I know this? Because I do, and if you wish to know I'll gladly post the information here, but as of right now, I won't.

Here you are, on July 15th, 2015, multiboxing five characters on a Kazzak kill with Airborne (another multiboxer) from Sargeras (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cHZkMjCotI). You say you stopped multiboxing "a long time ago," but I'd hardly consider 5 months (assuming you stopped the very same week of uploading that video) to be a long time. (Mirror (http://i.imgur.com/q2DcoS3.jpg))

Here is a video from Prepared showing his guild roster on stream from earlier this month (https://youtu.be/ztbSsvyoPQ4?t=16m10s). Look who shows up! Hint: It's you! (Armory (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Bobbobolob/simple) / Mirror (http://i.imgur.com/nABlG6s.jpg) / Video Still (http://i.imgur.com/8DNdq3Y.jpg))

Here you are in an even more recent video shown right at the heart of battle with Prepared, ensuring that he's healed (http://i.imgur.com/UBlM6VL.jpg). I'll also point out that you defend Prepared and say that he does not use banners or fireworks, but you seem to be overlooking the fact that, when attacked, he instantly increases his numbers by using Blacksmith pets (http://i.imgur.com/3r5BGXp.jpg), in addition to the 20+ totems all pulsating in the same area and affecting all of his units combined.

Here's another raid (http://i.imgur.com/bQT5xO7.jpg) where you're hanging with Prepared.
Another raid on your character from Tichondrius (http://i.imgur.com/b2MfImo.jpg)--And before you try to pretend that's not you (http://i.imgur.com/KDt5quH.jpg). Coincidence? Unlikely.

Also, your argument about how "60 individual players that follow/assist the same person" from your prior post is slightly ridiculous because such a situation would never occur. No large-scale, world PvP raid is ever going to bunch up like that... Ever. Without /follow, there's no way to keep that many people, who all play from different locations in the country with varying latency, to stay on top of one another like a multiboxer does, as well as the fact that you cannot get that many players to focus fire on individual targets like that. This may sound like I'm arguing against multiboxing, in general, but the larger the group of single players, the less effective they become at such things, which is why small-scale multiboxing is hardly any different than a small-scale group that you may run into in the outside world.

So, in closing, I'm glad you could join us, Bobbobolob. For someone who claims they are not Prepared's friend, you sure seem to be hanging out with him quite often, as well as vehemently defending him wherever you go (http://i.imgur.com/7umCEQ1.jpg), while trying to ensure that "the other guy" is the actual problem. Just so everyone is clear, you're defending things like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIwmUUyuQYE) (mirror (http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=232905&stream=69)), and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjXfj76H9aM). I'm sure there are plenty more examples, but I don't have time to watch all of his videos to pick things out.

I see that you like to jump to conclusions.

http://i.imgur.com/fW7Y3bL.png
But anyways, you completely missed my point on the 59 characters following 1 guy...

You can continue to bring whatever the fuck you want up, but the blacksmithing pets actually contribute to the battle, unlike fucking fireworks, toys, and shit... If the pets didn't do any damage, then he would not have a good reason to use them. By the way, have you seen what the other alliance multi-boxer and their guilds have been doing? They've been creating "phase lines" by spam putting down all of their banners.

Hmmm, what's this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i89qwOnaEGg
Wow, here's someone who's actually breaking the ToS and lagging the zone! That is the multi-boxer you should be worried about! You seem too focused in participating in the witch-hunt against Prepared, being blinded by your arrogance and not seeing the truth. I shouldn't expect much from a person who doesn't even play on the server... But wait, you've watched the videos of Prepared "purposefully" causing lag, so you must know a lot! I'm done trying to argue with you.

[Wubsie]

The whole issue once again is getting derailed to the nonsense of each side on ED claiming that it is the others that are the cause of the lag and not them. They all contribute to it... Enough characters doing combat with each other will lag out the server, whether those characters are multiboxed or not. Sure, there are no issues when the area is vacated by mainly one faction and only one or two of the opposing one are coming in at a time. I've not yet seen a single video where the server does not grind to a halt with large numbers on both sides doing battle. If such a thing exist, I'd love to see them. It can not possibly be the case that in every single fight there is always someone trying to crash the server, while both sides claim it's the others doing it to put them at a disadvantage. The servers simply can not handle all that is going on. How do I know this? Because I've seen the exact same thing happen, although at a smaller scale when I've attacked a raid on my DKs. It's neither fun, nor fair so I refrain from it nowadays.

I'll even go as far as providing an example: My last run in with Pinkskull. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYb7gTrB3ms) This is far less characters in total than in those big fights on ED, and in a fairly unpopulated area nowadays, at almost 3 am. As soon as we engage and the AOEs hit, the server becomes what most would consider unresponsive. I do fatfinger my Hand of The Prophet Battle Standard at around the 2 minute mark, but as we're not in Draenor, it should not have any affect, and by that time the lag has already been going on for around 1.5 minutes. This is in no way a poke at Pink, but simply a demonstration of the point I am making.

Again: You do not need to cast any toys or banners to cause lag. Large scale battles simply will lag. Who the lag benefits more is debatable, although I would have to lean to the side of the multiboxer over individual players.


Oh, and one more thing. Can anyone explain to me how on earth the fireworks are supposed to be lagging out the server? Are they not just particle effects that are rendered on the client side with no real affect on the game world? If so, surely their impact on server load is minimal compared to, for example an AOE spell.

[MiRai]

I see that you like to jump to conclusions.
Thank you for confirming that you were lying about not knowing Prepared, or being in his guild. I found it a bit odd that someone who claimed to not know him was furiously defending him out of good will, and any bit of credibility you had is now lost. I'll see if we can get a "Liar" rank implemented into the forum, just for you.


You can continue to bring whatever the fuck you want up, but the blacksmithing pets actually contribute to the battle, unlike fucking fireworks, toys, and shit... If the pets didn't do any damage, then he would not have a good reason to use them. By the way, have you seen what the other alliance multi-boxer and their guilds have been doing? They've been creating "phase lines" by spam putting down all of their banners.

Hmmm, what's this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i89qwOnaEGg
Wow, here's someone who's actually breaking the ToS and lagging the zone! That is the multi-boxer you should be worried about! You seem too focused in participating in the witch-hunt against Prepared, being blinded by your arrogance and not seeing the truth. I shouldn't expect much from a person who doesn't even play on the server... But wait, you've watched the videos of Prepared "purposefully" causing lag, so you must know a lot! I'm done trying to argue with you.
Listen, Bobbobolob, we get it... You're tired of parroting the same 4-5 sentences about how Prepared is completely innocent and a good, kind person who is misunderstood by many, and, quite honestly, we're tired of listening to it. So, you're free to go (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBfYQOSSPqc). :)

I think I hear someone in the distance screaming racial and homophobic slurs. You should hurry back to the game because I think he needs his favorite Druid healer!


The whole issue once again is getting derailed to the nonsense of each side on ED claiming that it is the others that are the cause of the lag and not them. They all contribute to it... Enough characters doing combat with each other will lag out the server, whether those characters are multiboxed or not. Sure, there are no issues when the area is vacated by mainly one faction and only one or two of the opposing one are coming in at a time. I've not yet seen a single video where the server does not grind to a halt with large numbers on both sides doing battle. If such a thing exist, I'd love to see them. It can not possibly be the case that in every single fight there is always someone trying to crash the server, while both sides claim it's the others doing it to put them at a disadvantage. The servers simply can not handle all that is going on. How do I know this? Because I've seen the exact same thing happen, although at a smaller scale when I've attacked a raid on my DKs. It's neither fun, nor fair so I refrain from it nowadays.
I agree, and I'd wager that it has something to do with the way that Blizzard has been tweaking their load-balancing phase technology--that and the fact that they changed the way server-client communication works at the beginning of WoD. This used to hardly be an issue back before MoP when phasing was pretty non-existent, but these days you can't see anyone from more than 15 yards away, so everyone has to be so bunched up in order to fight anyone else, or else people in your own party/raid begin disappearing right in front of your eyes.

[Wubsie]

I agree, and I'd wager that it has something to do with the way that Blizzard has been tweaking their load-balancing phase technology--that and the fact that they changed the way server-client communication works at the beginning of WoD. This used to hardly be an issue back before MoP when phasing was pretty non-existent, but these days you can't see anyone from more than 15 yards away, so everyone has to be so bunched up in order to fight anyone else, or else people in your own party/raid begin disappearing right in front of your eyes.
While it's impossible to tell for sure while having limited information, this what the conclusion that I've drawn as well. It does appear to have to do alot with the phasing mechanics. With spikes or just heavy load of activity those mechanics kick in to overdrive, trying to ease the stress on clients/servers. There was a decent read about it on the EU forums (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16518932170?page=1) a bit back in regards to massive WPVP and while some of it is speculation at best, I do feel like my experiences align with some of the theories posted there. Sadly the thread got fairly little traction. I found the example videos interesting to browse through, and oddly enough even the one with Swifty seemed to have some valid points.

Tldr of that thread would be: There are multiple mechanics to determine phasing (CRZ, Area of Interest, etc) which, in theory at least, might offer an advantage when having the whole raid grouped up in a small spot, while the area is under heavy stress causing a lot of phasing.

My personal experience has also been that the issue has gotten worse over the course of this expansion. I can not think of another reason for this other than Blizzard tweaking the numbers on the phasing system, most likely making the "limits" for phasing lower.

[Xixillia]

Note to self nerver upset MiRai (http://www.dual-boxing.com/members/24666-MiRai)


...agreed

[EaTCarbS]

tl:dr its Blizzard's fault

[MadMilitia]

That's quite a bogus example to backup your statement:
- you give the example of one shit feral that couldn't kill you
- you played a hunter, which is one of the 2 classes that is best equipped to get out of such trouble

I could literally name any other class combo (attacker/trying to get away) that prove you wrong.

Most classes have escape mechanisms. The problem is being able to gauge when you have a shot and when you don't. So most people wait until that oh shit moment to try and get away. They can learn from that and learn how to better gauge potential before taking any damage.

That was part of the reason why I mentioned feral and marks. Marks has no business beating a feral even when outgearing him. So I just threw up my defensive right away and kited him around town guards until he got tired of it and left. If I were on my shaman I could have just threw up my hots, shields, dropped earth ele and kite him with frost shock. Shrug. Maybe my resto shaman wouldn't survive but being one of the easiest classes to train in the game can still be surprisingly solid to run away with. Especially if you know your limitations.

Conversely my hunter, shaman, warrior, monk, dk, etc would be dead meat getting smashed by five all at once. Yeah maybe a druid could displace and sprint to get away and a lot do or a paladin could bubble and hearth. Most are screwed though.

[zenga]

Most classes have escape mechanisms. The problem is being able to gauge when you have a shot and when you don't. So most people wait until that oh shit moment to try and get away. They can learn from that and learn how to better gauge potential before taking any damage.

That was part of the reason why I mentioned feral and marks. Marks has no business beating a feral even when outgearing him. So I just threw up my defensive right away and kited him around town guards until he got tired of it and left. If I were on my shaman I could have just threw up my hots, shields, dropped earth ele and kite him with frost shock. Shrug. Maybe my resto shaman wouldn't survive but being one of the easiest classes to train in the game can still be surprisingly solid to run away with. Especially if you know your limitations.

Conversely my hunter, shaman, warrior, monk, dk, etc would be dead meat getting smashed by five all at once. Yeah maybe a druid could displace and sprint to get away and a lot do or a paladin could bubble and hearth. Most are screwed though.

TLDR most geared lvl 100 players will eat a fresh lvl 100 alive .....

[MadMilitia]

TLDR most geared lvl 100 players will eat a fresh lvl 100 alive .....


In other words you're one of those who run headlong into everything and observe your surroundings when on a rez timer. I guess that's alright you aren't alone.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I view this as a perversion. It reaches a point where the challenge is lost

Some classes can put out insane damage in a short period

if you really know what you are doing

would have stomped my hunter very easily if they were all played to the degree

varying degrees of skill



TLDR most geared lvl 100 players will eat a fresh lvl 100 alive .....
In other words you're one of those who run headlong into everything and observe your surroundings when on a rez timer. I guess that's alright you aren't alone.False dichotomy FTW! /groan

You aren't strengthening your argument by restating the known exceptions to the rule as inerrant proof that the rule doesn't exist and then snarking at people when they point out the inconsistencies. Nobody is disagreeing with you that some people definitely use multiboxing as a griefing mechanic, but those people would grief regardless of whether they were multiboxing or not. They wouldn't have _as much_ success at it but it would still happen, and putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring the experience of pretty much everyone else on here while asserting the primacy of your arbitrary "this level of multiboxing is OK but THAT shit is just EEEEEvil" gospel looks markedly similar to the anti-multiboxer trolling in other forums.

[MadMilitia]

False dichotomy FTW! /groan

You aren't strengthening your argument by restating the known exceptions to the rule as inerrant proof that the rule doesn't exist and then snarking at people when they point out the inconsistencies. Nobody is disagreeing with you that some people definitely use multiboxing as a griefing mechanic, but those people would grief regardless of whether they were multiboxing or not. They wouldn't have _as much_ success at it but it would still happen, and putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring the experience of pretty much everyone else on here while asserting the primacy of your arbitrary "this level of multiboxing is OK but THAT shit is just EEEEEvil" gospel looks markedly similar to the anti-multiboxer trolling in other forums.


I'm not sure why you bothered quoting me out of context. I don't have the interest nor the time to decipher that. Though my stance has been the same since I posted in this thread.

I do think people who incessantly complain are the type who run into situations and then figure out what they did wrong in front of a rez timer. Those people just need to learn how to play. I do not think the people complaining about machine lag or having 40 toons dropped on their head are the same people. Nor are they facing the same experience.

There are degrees involved with the issue. Writing them all off as false is unnecessary and does nothing to solve the problem.

[RestrainT]

Prepared posted a video showing a multiboxer called Malseph casting army of the dead, fireworks also banners. the server crashed right after. why do pepole cast stuff that is not needed in the battle?

https://youtu.be/F_-u0rv9ves?t=1434

[MiRai]

Prepared posted a video showing a multiboxer called Malseph casting army of the dead, fireworks also banners. the server crashed right after. why do pepole cast stuff that is not needed in the battle?

https://youtu.be/F_-u0rv9ves?t=1434
There are videos from both sides showing massive lag and server disconnections with a "World server is down" message afterwards. This has been going on for weeks upon weeks.

I assure you, neither side is as innocent as they claim to be.

[Zandrae]

I just read over Fred's posts on Reddit and boy does that guy have a hateboner for Prepared.

The most amusing post so far is him attempting to call the guy out for racism. Having the misfortune of having a couple of toons on ED, I've got to say that racism is not something unique to the mass multiboxer. There's a lot of toxic dudebros there, Fred's just looking for a witch hunt.

I also find it funny that Fred is making all these special demands for "RP-PVP" servers but no demands for RP servers. Truth is that ED is the only "active" RP-PVP server. From what I can tell, ED is mostly a PVP server with a little bit of RP or precious "immersion" that he goes on about multiboxing harming. Multiboxing and RP can be perfectly harmonious. In fact having a squadron of characters in a uniform can look pretty cool and multiboxing is a great tool for DMing too because you can be in many places at once.

I feel like the truth of the matter is that a lot of people on ED transferred to Alliance side with the WoD changes to PVP just like what happened all over. In comes multiboxer and suddenly there is danger again and they can't stand losing. It has nothing to do with "roleplay."

As someone on an actual RP server we deal with PVP tryhards disrupting actual RPers in public areas all the time and you don't see us creating a witch hunt to have PVPers phase while flagged in cities so they don't disrupt the RPers.

Server "crashes"? Correlation does not imply causation. Perhaps ED is just an unstable server? I've been on an old server before that just had constant stability issues. Perhaps these people are playing on crackerjack boxes. It's a bit rude that he might camp someplace like Stormshield, but I know PVP groups that get together sometimes and do the same thing. PVP happened on a (RP)-PVP server.

In reality, I think it'd be pretty easy to dispatch Prepared's team in the same way that premade vs premade Ashran groups fight.
Form a 40 man raid or 2 40 man raids.
Have everyone set focus on the target caller.
In vent/mumble/ts/etc.
Predator Frames WPVP clickable target frames.
All DPS assist off the caller, trying to gun down targets one by one.
CC, stuns, fearbombs, etc. There'll be lag. Just keep pressing your assist button and shooting.
If you can't target the target caller's target? Move because phasing.
Healers spam AOE heals and cooldowns, even if they can't see and are lagging.

When the dust settles, one group will be victorious. And it'll probably be the coordinated group of multiple brains that has more mobility than a lone multiboxer.

It's no different than mass Ashran clashes.

[zenga]

...
In reality, I think it'd be pretty easy to dispatch Prepared's team in the same way that premade vs premade Ashran groups fight.
Form a 40 man raid or 2 40 man raids.
Have everyone set focus on the target caller.
In vent/mumble/ts/etc.
Predator Frames WPVP clickable target frames.
All DPS assist off the caller, trying to gun down targets one by one.
CC, stuns, fearbombs, etc. There'll be lag. Just keep pressing your assist button and shooting.
If you can't target the target caller's target? Move because phasing.
Healers spam AOE heals and cooldowns, even if they can't see and are lagging.

When the dust settles, one group will be victorious. And it'll probably be the coordinated group of multiple brains that has more mobility than a lone multiboxer.

It's no different than mass Ashran clashes.

- gather 40 people ..
- get 40 people to set same focus
- get 40 people in voice chat
- get 40 people do assist (focus) the same dude

Sounds to me like it would be easier to convince (insert name of random terrorist regime) to drop a nuke on prepared his place.

[EaTCarbS]

- gather 40 people ..
- get 40 people to set same focus
- get 40 people in voice chat
- get 40 people do assist (focus) the same dude

Sounds to me like it would be easier to convince (insert name of random terrorist regime) to drop a nuke on prepared his place.

We do this every day in EVE like its nothing, but its an extreme challenge for wow players. All you need to do is find some people with more than 2 brain cells to rub together.

[MadMilitia]

We do this every day in EVE like its nothing, but its an extreme challenge for wow players. All you need to do is find some people with more than 2 brain cells to rub together.

The problem with WoW is how solo play is pushed.

1-Max level is an exercise in futility towards grouping. So everyone hits max level thinking ( and rightfully so ) that they can just go solo and everything will be fine.

The design should be about consistency. If max level requires grouping to get anything done, 1-max should be pretty close to the same. Maybe 1-50 is solo and 50-99 is a gradual grouping process. Anything like that would be preferable to what we have now.

[EaTCarbS]

The problem with WoW is how solo play is pushed.

1-Max level is an exercise in futility towards grouping. So everyone hits max level thinking ( and rightfully so ) that they can just go solo and everything will be fine.

The design should be about consistency. If max level requires grouping to get anything done, 1-max should be pretty close to the same. Maybe 1-50 is solo and 50-99 is a gradual grouping process. Anything like that would be preferable to what we have now.

yea, thank LFD and LFR for that.

[jinkobi]

All I can say is use common sense... I have seen boxers being real pricks in several instances that makes the rest of us look bad. Just because you can shutdown a zone doesn't mean you should. Blizz is going to always err on the side of the masses.

If you enjoy boxing just use some common sense. We know when we are pushing things a bit too far and people intentionally trying to crash servers will get us shutdown quicker than anything. Anyway just my two cents. I love boxing and don't want to see it taken away due to stupidity.