Finding the Performance Issue

[zanthor]

Ok... I've got a problem with my machine and I'm having a bitch of a time isolating it... The performance i"m worried about is SINGLE BOXING, however I'm asking here since we have so many top notch hardware monkeys...

System Spec's:
AMD Athlon Phenom 9600 BE, 2.3ghz x 4, not overclocked.
4GB Corsair ram, 800mhz, I'm not overclocking so no need to go higher.
WD 500GB SATA Drive x2
WD 320GB SATA Drive x2
XFX GF 8800gt 640mb ddr3
MSI K9A2 CF-F (790X chipset)

Windows Vista Ultimate

This system was also running previously on an AMD Athlon64 X2 6000+ (2x 3.0ghz) with the same configuration. Also with a 7900gt 256mb DDR2 card...

I've been disappointed from the start... I've tried different drivers, I've reinstalled the OS, I've replaced the mainboard, CPU, upgraded ram, etc. According to the system performance monitor I'm not pushing the limits at all.

I have a friend who has an 8800GTX in a system identical to my old build (the x2 6000+, 4gb ram, etc) and gets 100+ FPS in shattrah, while I sit between 20-30. he doesn't this with his UI loaded, I do this with my UI stripped down to blizzards naked UI (no performance change from my UI being loaded though)...

I installed wow fresh this weekend, repatched to 2.4, etc... so it's not my wow install.
It's not my hard drive, I've tried it on all 4, and sata drives should be more than fast enough (load times are great, framerates suck)
It's not my cpu, since it sits below 75% with all 5 copies running let alone just one...
It's not my RAM since it's not anywhere near capped out, and the benchmarks I've seen between nosebleed zomg expensive ram and your economy models show a 5% performance difference for the system (IE: not 60fps difference)
It's not my NIC, nor my sound...
It shouldn't be my video card, since it's not exactly sucking tit...

Help me out, any ideas?

PS: Please keep the vista bashing out of this thread, I run Vista because I have to know Vista for work, I've had similar performance from this system in XP (10-15fps difference) and other people are having nosebleed performance on Vista.

[Eteocles]

Unfortunately Vista miiiiiight be to blame..not Vista in /general/, but Ultimate edition...I hear it runs poorly compared to the other versions.

First, simple test: Go ingame, type /console maxfps 80, any change?

If yes: lol

If not: I hear the AMD quads aren't as good as Intel's...but that shouldn't make such a horrible horrible framerate occur. Rest of the system looks like it should run great, better than mine...

Try disabling or turning down AntiAliasing or setting it to Application-Controlled in the nVidia Control Panel at rightclick desktop > Properties > last tab > Nvidia tab; you want performance, so eff the slightly less-sharp but blocky no matter what textures in favor of reliability :p

Also, what resolution are you running? LCD/CRT monitor? MonitorS?

UI only affects load time most of the time, shouldn't affect fps much. Shatt however may be a bad place to test since 2.4 sunwell dailies have people gathering there en-masse in an already over-NPC'd area...adding a half dozen NPCs to the literally 50+ already there, beside the 2 battlemaster spots and fucking flightpath no less where there's hundreds of players sitting there like dumbfucks for their welfare epics instead of queueing and moving away from the lag like a sane person...doesn't help anyone's framerates let alone a boxer's lol

[zanthor]

I've set maxfpx to 500 with no change.

I've set AA to off and to 8x, no change.

I run dual monitor, one 19" Samsung @ 1280x1024 (secondary) and the primary is a KDS @ 1680x1050.

Saddly I don't play anything else so I couldn't tell you if it runs better in another game!

I can move out to Blades Edge and get 30-40fps max. I can set all teh graphics settings to max and see no change, I can set them all to performance minded settings and set the resolution @ 800x600 and see no change...

I do see a 10-15fps change from going full screen instead of windowed mode.

As mentioned, I had the X2 6000+ running XP and Vista, there was a 10fps difference between them.

[Eteocles]

Try a reasonable number with maxfps, 500 may be overkill ;p 60-80's fine

1680x1050 is an odd-sounding res...it's not a matching multiple like most other res's are...try setting that one to 1280x1024 temporarily maybe, other than that I can't think of much else, will have to let one of the more tech-inclined people, sorry I can't be more help lol

[zanthor]

I also tried 50, 100, etc on maxfps... and I covered the other resolutions in the edit while you replied :).

[Sarduci]

Are you running SP1?

Have you looked at performance counters?

Are you capping your frames when boxing? When you are not?

I don't quite understand your last statement, if you are within 15-10 frames of the way it ran in XP, then I'm not sure what your problem is? Have you duplicated all of your friends game settings on a 1:1 basis, and I mean all of them, on every tab? How is the performance in a maximized window when you launch it manually? Specifically windowed mode maximized.

What about virus/worm/rootkit/malware/spyware?

What about driver revisions? Firmware? BIOS updates?

You do know there is a major difference in the way the memory controllers work between the 8800gt and 8800gtx?

I'll definitely agree with your opinion of DDR2 vs DDR3 RAM itself, the memory controllers are much nicer on DDR3 than DDR2 but are not worth it right now since nothing really can take advantage of the enhancements to that currently in the gaming market.

Edit: Whoops, got pulled away from my desk, some of this may have been covered above.

[Sarduci]

Try a reasonable number with maxfps, 500 may be overkill ;p 60-80's fine

1680x1050 is an odd-sounding res...it's not a matching multiple like most other res's are...try setting that one to 1280x1024 temporarily maybe, other than that I can't think of much else, will have to let one of the more tech-inclined people, sorry I can't be more help lol1680x1050 is a standard resolution. Not common, but standard.

[zanthor]

Are you running SP1?
Not yet.


Have you looked at performance counters?I have, but I'm not sure exactly what to look for.



Are you capping your frames when boxing? When you are not?With 5 instances of wow running the focus'd window gets 25-30fps even when I raise the maxfps over that. When running ONE instance of wow in the same place with the same settings I get 25-40fps.



I don't quite understand your last statement, if you are within 15-10 frames of the way it ran in XP, then I'm not sure what your problem is? Have you duplicated all of your friends game settings on a 1:1 basis, and I mean all of them, on every tab? How is the performance in a maximized window when you launch it manually? Specifically windowed mode maximized.It runs like shit in XP, it runs like shit in Vista, it's playable but not running the way this system should be able to.

Compairing to my friends setup... I have loaded wow from a clean install freshly patched to 2.4 (925mb download). All graphics settings at minimum and I get SIGNIFICANTLY worse performance than my friends pc does.

What about virus/worm/rootkit/malware/spyware?Clean install of windows XP, clean install of windows Vista, I'm certain there isn't a problem with anything of that nature.

What about driver revisions? Firmware? BIOS updates?Downloaded current drivers on all hardware, I haven't updated firmware or bios, I'll check for avaialbiltiy because that is something that I missed.

You do know there is a major difference in the way the memory controllers work between the 8800gt and 8800gtx?I don't know much about the different variants of video cards, I know 8800's smoke 8600's, and 8000's smoke 7000's, it's REALLY hard to find any english language documentation (and I don't mean technical bullshit from the manufacturer, I mean english like "Hey bubba, this cards fastest, followed by this one, then this one"). But I was under the impression that the 8800GT was FAST.

[Taipan]

Zanthor,

You may want to start with verifying if the trouble lies in "your system" as opposed to "WoW on your system".

Thus I would investigate the performance of your system with other games and/or 3D benchmark.

There are game demos available and also the 3DMark series.

My Vista Family system (not SP1 yet) is very similar to yours, apart from the Quad6600 and the Raptor drive : I get around 18 000 at 3Dmark5 (not 6) so you should be around there too.
Note : I got this 18 000 both with the 8800GT 512mo and the ATI 3870 512mo, running the free 3dmark05 benchmark.

Also Vista performance index gives me a 5.9 out of 6 so your should be around there too.

@ Eteocles: 1680 * 1050 is standard resolution for wide-screen LCDs in 21-22" nowadays, I dual-monitor on two of them.
I don't think this is related to the performance issue here.

Best regards,

[zanthor]

Also Vista performance index gives me a 5.9 out of 6 so your should be around there too.

For the vista performance index I'm 5.9 across the board except my hard drives which are 5.6.

I'll download 3dmark2005 and see what I get and let you know.

[Eteocles]

Ah yeah I'm not familiar with widescreen res's lol; couldn't hurt to try though. Also, is there any particular reason you two aren't using SP1? Windows needs all the help it can get, anyone running XP without sp2 is nuts, I don't see why that logic wouldn't apply to Vista ;p

[zanthor]

Results for 3dmark05 - 12,489 3dmarks

[Sarduci]

My Vista Family system (not SP1 yet) is very similar to yours, apart from the Quad6600 and the Raptor drive : I get around 18 000 at 3Dmark5 (not 6) so you should be around there too.
Note : I got this 18 000 both with the 8800GT 512mo and the ATI 3870 512mo, running the free 3dmark05 benchmark.
Q6600 is Intel, he's got an AMD. So not only are we talking different CPU's, but also different motherboard chipsets, BIOS and hardware controllers. Not huge changes, but not minor ones.

[Crucial]

Couple things, epecially with the AMD Phenoms. I had an older Asus motherboard that I put an AMD Phenom 9600 (black edition) into, it was key for me to make sure the BIOS version was updated to get better performance. I also made sure to specifically set the affinity for each wow session to a different processor (or multiple) otherwise only the first 2 of the cores were ever being used it seemed.

[Sarduci]

Ah yeah I'm not familiar with widescreen res's lol; couldn't hurt to try though. Also, is there any particular reason you two aren't using SP1? Windows needs all the help it can get, anyone running XP without sp2 is nuts, I don't see why that logic wouldn't apply to Vista ;pI am running SP1 on mine. Been running it for a few weeks now.

[Eteocles]

I also made sure to specifically set the affinity for each wow session to a different processor (or multiple) otherwise only the first 2 of the cores were ever being used it seemed.

Aye WoW is only optimized for dual-cores, not quads, have to deal with those yourself.

And yea Sard I was referring to Zanth and Tai :p

[zanthor]

I've got SP1 and am planning on installing it, just hadn't since I reinstalled vista last week.

[Stabface]

Can you run CPU-Z and check that your CPU/memory is running at the expected speeds? Might be something off...

[Sarduci]

Can you run CPU-Z and check that your CPU/memory is running at the expected speeds? Might be something off...Nothing like finding your SPD's on your RAM autodetect at 133mhz instead of 800mhz.....

[zanthor]

Rams running at 400mhz according to CPU-Z which appears to be standard for PC2-6400.

[thinus]

Can't help you but I run Vista Ultimate as well on a Q6600 and have no problems running 5 sessions. Gets a little laggy in Shattrah and sometimes I lose follow, seems to happen more since 2.4, but other than that no issues.

I was actually running on 2 cores till recently cause I didn't set the CPU affinity lmao. Even on 2 cores it ran fine except for the occasional few seconds freeze when a seldom used ability is used for the first time.

[zanthor]

Can't help you but I run Vista Ultimate as well on a Q6600 and have no problems running 5 sessions. Gets a little laggy in Shattrah and sometimes I lose follow, seems to happen more since 2.4, but other than that no issues.

I was actually running on 2 cores till recently cause I didn't set the CPU affinity lmao. Even on 2 cores it ran fine except for the occasional few seconds freeze when a seldom used ability is used for the first time.I actually 5 box just fine, it's single play in intense situations (read: Mount Hyjal trash) that gets ugly as hell. I'm running 5-10fps in there which is just horrible. I use Ogri'la and Shattrah as points of reference, but all said and done the system just doesn't cook like I'd expect it to.

[thinus]

I actually 5 box just fine, it's single play in intense situations (read: Mount Hyjal trash) that gets ugly as hell. I'm running 5-10fps in there which is just horrible. I use Ogri'la and Shattrah as points of reference, but all said and done the system just doesn't cook like I'd expect it to.

My reading comprehension failed miserably :(
Just assumed you were having 5-box performance problems.

I heard Hyjal was really hard on systems, never been there though.

[Eteocles]

I had no issue with framerate when I went into hyjal recently...the trash was no prob lol

[removed]

Have you tried turing off Aero? It can have an impact on performance. We got a significant increase in framerates when I disabled it on a friends pc.

[zanthor]

Have you tried turing off Aero? It can have an impact on performance. We got a significant increase in framerates when I disabled it on a friends pc.Aero makes a nominal (2-3fps) difference on my system.

[Taipan]

Results for 3dmark05 - 12,489 3dmarks

That's not right, something fishy indeed. Even if the Q6600 is about 5-7% faster than the 9600BE -as per 3dmark cpu and gfx test-, the gap shouldn't be that large with my setup.

Couple of ideas off my head.

- Silly question : is your GFX card supposed to be powered by 6 or 8 pin supply ? I once had the case where it worked on safe mode with 6 and full mode only with 8.

- Can you try with a different GFX card from a friend ?

- 3Dmark advanced version (USD 20 if I recall) offers sub-benchmarks per system component etc., then you can compare with similar components in their online dbase.

Sorry I can't be more helpful, I hope you'll nail the cause.

Best regards,

[zanthor]

I don't recall if the power connector is 6 or 8, but I know it fits exactly what my psu provided (antec truepower trio 550w) and I suspect it was 6 pins...

I've already registered 3DMark 2006 so I'll dig into that and see what I can narrow down.

Did some research and it looks like overclocking isn't an option anyhow, the phenoms are so cranked up from AMD there is no free space at the top end.

[zanthor]

Ugh.

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/13724
http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/14358

Buggy processor and the fix knocks 10-20% off performance... that would explain what I'm seeing.

[zanthor]

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13741

[zanthor]

This note is mainly for me, but also for anyone else running into this:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?s=696e582185a17373ab31adba76fedcf3&p=684518&postcount=17

Directions on disabling the fix from AMD that gimps performance.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Did applying that fix resolve the issue for you? Or have you had a chance to try it yet?

[zanthor]

Did applying that fix resolve the issue for you? Or have you had a chance to try it yet?I've been issueing RGC (Remote Girlfriend Commands) for the last 30 minutes hoping to find out, 3dMark05 is running now.

[zanthor]

Results for 3dmark05 - 12,489 3dmarksResults for 3dmark05 with TLB patch disabled!! - 14027

About a 11% gain.

I used the utility here:
http://www.rebelshavenforum.com/sis-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000521

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Better than nothing. :P Are the WOW FPS issues still happening? Also, you might try toggling the graphics options (like triple-buffering, etc.) in the WoW Options dialog if you haven't already and see if it points to something your system just doesn't do very well. I have one ATI machine and it positively HATES when I'm around a burning building. The smoke clouds just kill that card (x1300? can't remember).