The Banned thread

[thedevilyouknow]

so yeah i got banned....

for "macro use" (lolwhat?)

Including an account that i did not isbox with, just was logged in on the same computer while i did (booster account)

E: Including main acc that was never logged in during any ISBoxing activities

E2: Never used macros, i have one for a text block for league of legends, but otherwise nope

[luxlunae]

E2: Never used macros, i have one for a text block for league of legends, but otherwise nope

Were you running AHK or similar in the background? Just curious.

[shadowandlight]

What were you doing in-game usually?

[ebony]

where the story?

[EaTCarbS]

What were you doing in-game usually?

Based on his post history, incursions.

Some butt-hurt carebear incursion runners probably got their jimmies rustled and spammed GMs with tickets.

[thedevilyouknow]

Yup, was doing incursions

Story is, I'm on my way to winning Eve

[EaTCarbS]

http://i.imgur.com/iom9ASx.jpg

[shadowandlight]

heres an idea, its a long shot but i think it would help

if you can still log into the test server, duplicate your exact setup there and record (using Twitch, OBS, whatever) your exact incursion running setup to show without a doubt you werent using Input Duplication.

[thedevilyouknow]

http://i.imgur.com/iom9ASx.jpg


Much thanks :P

Sure it won't be missed, but i think it is time to stop the eveing, or so it seems

E: nope can't login to test server, my isbox doesnt like the test server anyways

[shadowandlight]

Can you post your ISBoxer profile you were using (leave out the characters if you want)?

i could then make a video showing how your profile was completely legit and within the EULA (as far as we understand it currently)

[multiboxingforever]

o7 guys!
I am an old dual-boxing forum reader but this is my first message that i write.
Today my 8 account and the booster account has been banned permanently by ccp peligro for MACRO use???????? what macro??? so multiboxing goes under MACRO category????
My personal pvp account banned too!i have never multiboxed with him!! never i swear!! i think they have banned all my account because of course the IP was the same.
I was mining alone in my system in deep 0.0.....
What to say.....
1) why the ban is permanently and not a 30 days ban?
2) why have they banned my booster account? ( never multiboxed with him.....)
3) why have they banned my pvp account? never multiboxed with him too....


If someone thinks that i am a troll, no i'm serious about this post

http://i.imgur.com/JGDR26W.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4j4NnsZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tqM0qEK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/j9QmXxh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/t49XeGo.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hIR0Jv3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/t2jdQPx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wfCpqaO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Uxvpg9U.jpg

Of course i was never involved in any RMT activities.
So what to say bye bye eve online and welcome wow! i am going to create an account!;)

So guys watch out if you multibox!

p.s: i have already opened a ticket, if i have good news i will post here!

[LordsServant]

As long as you were doing everything aboveboard, petition, then escalate it until someone provides you an actual response.

Buttmad bears spamming petitions is gonna happen, but as long as everything was 100% aboveboard and you can prove so, you should eventually get unbanned.

If you're getting a cut and paste response from some bottom tier GM who doesn't actually play the game nor has any experience with it, ofc they might not have a clue and might've hit the ban button without thinking.

Just keep asking for it to continue to be escalated until a senior GM looks at it. Be polite, don't rage, and don't make silly threats about the EULA or RL legal action.

They will ban all of your accounts simply because the rules on macro use is that all of your accounts are permabanned, it has nothing to do with whether they were involved or not.

For example, if you were botting and RMTing, they'd ban all of your chars, not just the ones you were botting and RMTing on.

If it's a mistake, don't worry, and keep petitioning/asking for it to be escalated. If you're 100% innocent then you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

[LordsServant]

Opening a ticket is the right response.

Just be very calm and don't rage.

Be polite, point out all the reasons you WEREN'T macroing, and explain how you were doing what you were doing.

As I explained in the other thread, the response to macro use is a permaban on all accounts. If you were a botter, or RMTer, or w/e, they'd ban all of your accounts.

Assuming you aren't, continue to make this clear with logical valid facts in a calm manner, and ask for it to be escalated. I've never heard of this CCP Peligro guy, so odds are he's just someone they hired and he probably got enough petitions about your chars that he figured he should ban you.

Not everyone at CCP actually understands the game, and not everyone has the full picture. There are people working at CCP who simply work there as a job, go in, and review petitions. Not all of them are perfectly competent, and not all of them play or understand the game itself.

You'll end up with a few of those, and assuming everything you did was 1 RL action --> 1 ingame response and 100% aboveboard, you should be fine.

[bugme143]

I've never heard of this CCP Peligro guy, so odds are he's just someone they hired and he probably got enough petitions about your chars that he figured he should ban you.
Peligro's been there for a number of years, but so far he's stayed out of the ISBox drama.

[shadowandlight]

Peligro's been there for a number of years, but so far he's stayed out of the ISBox drama.

actually in the summer CSM minutes he was on the side of multiboxers

OP - can you share your isboxer setup so we can all look at it (including CCP)

feel free to block out the character names when exporting it

I want to make videos using the same ISBoxer setups showing that these people being banned are NOT in-fact breaking the EULA.

[bugme143]

actually in the summer CSM minutes he was on the side of multiboxers
Hmm, I missed that. Think I'll have to look over the summer minutes again.

[thedevilyouknow]

Exactly the same as my ban, except my ban was for 30 days and not perm....

[thedevilyouknow]

Seperate post to specifically detail what i have and have not done - if it mentions edits, it is due to the fact i was editting the original post and created a new one so people would not have to look specifically look for the edits (sorry forum guys, hope this is okay)

Okay since I did just get on the eve general forums to check up on the input duplication thread, and i did realize that my original post is quite lacking in content (mostly due to the shock of the "oh look, i'm banned...winning eve")

Disclaimer, (as stated in the original post) Have a Razor keyboard with inbuilt macro functionality
Have had in the past, and for computer programming reasons, had macros installed (coded? uhh....recorded!) on the keyboard, non of which are specifically EVE related
Anyone who is familiar with razor keyboard software will know that they allow profiles, my default profile is "off" no macros of any kind, and the keyboard is programmed to swap if a specific file is launched.

Regarding input duplication, have followed the rules, and while some people might find it controversial, I have been using a mixture of video FX and round robin keys to conduct my activities.
No input duplication of any kind has been used, any key regarding the game i have been using has been round robin

Shadow: Not entirely sure how to upload my setup but to be frank it is quite easy to duplicate and doesn't require much imagination. Keymap'd round robin to f1, f2, f3, f4, and locking targets, also right click
Also some of these were not actually based on the original keystroke (I.E. right click was rebound to a keyboard stroke -THIS IS NOT A MACRO - it is a keybind, that can be done through the game client as well)

As to my incursion setup, it was previously, 12 NM 1 Basi setup shown by Tonksi in a youtube video, very simple to do and did not require much effort: also no 3+ step hotkeys for drone recall was used either (just fyi)

To clarify, I have been playing eve for...probably 4+? 5+? years now, In the incursion setup i had the 12 NM, 1 logi pilot, 1 booster, and the 1 main account.
Totaling in 15 accounts (ikr :D)
All 15 accounts have been given a temporary ban, of 30 days by CCP Peligo

Reason: You have been banned for 30 days by CCP Peligro. The reason specified was: EULA/TOS Violation - Macro Use
Copy paste from ban notice when trying to login

Unless this is fixed by CCP, which has not replied to the ticket since the original post date 29th Jan, and the ban revoked, i will not continue to be play EvE Online, including on the main account, due to the nature of CCP of these matters as of late, including but not limited to

The refusal to answer support tickets (not only regarding bans) of any questioning nature as to what is and is not acceptable post 1st Jan, being redirected to the forum post and just dumped there.

Refusal to hold a public meeting regarding the change

Any other reasons seem abit bitter so i shall not share them, but my respect for the game company has dropped, and while i may miss the Eve community in general, and some of the friends i have there, I can't in good conscious continue to pay (yes i payed for some of those accounts IRL money, the main account being subbed for full year cycles every January) for a game that is owned by a company that whores the premise of it being beneficial to have multiple accounts, yet does this.
Even though i have the option to continue to play eve after the 30 day ban, I doubt i will as, unless this issue is settled, any more time invested into this game after the bans lapse may just result in a permanent ban that will make all the effort moot.

Good luck to you all out there, will possibly update as this progresses

Can't have my stuff

[brammator]

01/31 11:59 (brammator) you won't believe what did CCP do with my petition about round-robin.
01/31 12:00 (brammator) they just remove it.
01/31 12:05 (s***********) that ridiculas, they dont even allow you to make a valid argument
01/31 12:06 (brammator) wasn't an argument
01/31 12:06 (brammator) it was just a #$%&@&#^ question
01/31 12:06 (s***********) oh thats even worse ! lol
01/31 12:08 (s***********) its not supprising though, this is the same kind of thing that trion/glyph does
01/31 12:09 (s***********) instead of being smart, they just make them selves look smart posts
01/31 12:09 (s***********) by removing *
01/31 12:11 (s***********) my kids aged 10 and 13 do the same thing, if we play cards they will look at my hand and just take away the winning cards so i cant win :P... says alot for ccp
01/31 12:17 (A**) xD
01/31 12:21 (Lavish) [dual-boxing.com] EVE Online: Information on setup, and the ban - thedevilyouknow - http://goo.gl/TpdDhO
01/31 12:24 (brammator) talk about devil.
01/31 12:25 (s***********) hehehe

I hope your and mine questions both get resolved soon.

EDIT: found my petition. First I checked all my accounts without luck and get furious, and then I found it on TEST support site. Go me.

[Tool of Society]

Yeah I stopped playing rift some time ago due to Trion's stupidity.

I'm leery of round robin usage. I think if you use it too quickly it'll hit two or more clients on the same server tick which then causes issues. I'm personally using click through videoFX. I haven't run in the last week though.


Thank you for sharing this with us. You might help prevent more bans with this information.

[EcoGas]

suck to hear man ;(

about the perma ban, what i can say its a "urban myth" :)

Was banned 2 years ago for RMT actions that i did, last year Ive made some support ticket and said I will be a nice guy ect...
took 4 months till they took the ban

and right now im playing with all of my acounts

[multiboxingforever]

suck to hear man ;(

about the perma ban, what i can say its a "urban myth" :)

Was banned 2 years ago for RMT actions that i did, last year Ive made some support ticket and said I will be a nice guy ect...
took 4 months till they took the ban

and right now im playing with all of my acounts


yes but i've been never involved in any RMT activities.... i hope they will at elast answer to my support ticket

[thedevilyouknow]

Thank you for sharing this with us. You might help prevent more bans with this information.

That was the idea

[brammator]

Well maybe "pending investigation" part of message is answer? I mean, maybe they banned you "permanently" for time of investigation, and then decide if you get perm or 30d or nothing.

[EcoGas]

yep, your best bet is to submit a ticket and ask to FORWARD to an senior CCP
and hoping to get an answer quickly (last ticket of my got answered 6 week after I submitted -.- )

[Mosg2]

I was told by a reputable source that even though the server processes actions in 1 second ticks, the game captures the timestamp of your button click to the millisecond and sends that, too. If that is so, then they are perhaps just flagging and banning any clicks that come too close? Ionno.

[Khatovar]

All "Banned" threads merged. Please keep all "I'm banned" posts to one spot since it's all the same topic - we don't need multiple threads on the same topic.

[bugme143]

I was told by a reputable source that even though the server processes actions in 1 second ticks, the game captures the timestamp of your button click to the millisecond and sends that, too. If that is so, then they are perhaps just flagging and banning any clicks that come too close? Ionno.

Most of us also were told this.

[Tool of Society]

I'm seriously of the belief that round robin is the issue. My petition asked about round robin but the response was completely unhelpful with basically a link to that one thread which I posted in.


I have been actively using isboxer +8 hours a day for a variety of tasks which do not involve round robin. I am NOT using videofx for the most part either currently.

i use the repeater to log in and open windows or such but that's it.


My incursion running was all videoFX at first but I added in a round robin for F1 after a week or less. I used the videofx round robin setup for a week or so before the rage popping stopped my incursion running last week. When I did use round robin I made it a clear point to press it once a second basically.


EDIT : I've had a few arguments in local about isboxer being banned and I've been involved in several discussions across several public channels so I've probably been reported a few times.

[bugme143]

Except it doesn't make sense, since Round Robin sends 1 command to 1 client per click / key press. CCP doesn't even know what they're banning themselves.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Except it doesn't make sense, since Round Robin sends 1 command to 1 client per click / key press. CCP doesn't even know what they're banning themselves.

Unless it's simply:

if ($KeystrokesReceivedPerSecond > 3) { doBanUser($User); }

[bugme143]

Unless it's simply:

if ($KeystrokesReceivedPerSecond > 3) { doBanUser($User); }


if ($headupass = 1) {doChangesFromAHat}

[LordsServant]

Except it doesn't make sense, since Round Robin sends 1 command to 1 client per click / key press. CCP doesn't even know what they're banning themselves.

I avoid round robin specifically because - if you think about it - it does 2 actions with 1 input.

For example:

Step 1. Press f1 --> character 1 presses f1.
?????? --> Swap to character 2.
Step 2. Press f1 --> character 2 presses f1.
?????? --? Swap to character 3.
etc etc...

Even if you argue semantics about the order (Step 1. Press f1 --> character 1 presses f1. Step 2. Press f1 --> swap to character 2, ????? --> character 2 presses f1) you still end up with 2 actions.

If CCP considers "swapping characters" as an action, then you are in violation of the rules.

Noone in my corp uses round robin, and none of us have been banned. I specifically mentioned to folks that they should avoid using round robin at all costs.

You could argue that my corp living in wspace means we have a lot less folks around to petition us, unlike some incursion folks who swim in the tears of "but isboxer is BANNED AND EVIL!!!1111" every day. This argument is invalidated by folks like ShadowAndLight.

ShadowandLight multiboxes bombers on the regular in nullsec, vs HUNDREDS of angry hostile pilot who I'm sure petition spam him at least as much as the incursion groups do. I don't believe he uses round robin (rollover instead) which might be why he's NOT banned.

Another potential reason for folks being accused of macro use when using round robin could be that your cursor (if clicking) appears in exactly the same area of the screen, or your f1's are coming far too quickly (I don't believe the 3 second bullshit, that's definitely wrong) for them to be considered "possible" for a human player to do.

With my videofx setup, it's incredibly easy to see tons of variation in my cursor movement and clicking, and I manually hit f1-f4 on my logis interspersed with the odd clicking during the same session so it's very easy to see that everything I'm doing is manual.

tl;dr - Don't use round robin, it might actually be against CCP's new rules of 1 input --> 1 output.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Changing the focus of a window is an OS mechanic, not an in-game action. Or are you saying ALT+TAB is an action?

[bugme143]

Changing the focus of a window is an OS mechanic, not an in-game action. Or are you saying ALT+TAB is an action?
This.
It'd be the same as having a 15+ monitor setup, and just moving your mouse over each separate window to change focus.

[LordsServant]

Changing the focus of a window is an OS mechanic, not an in-game action. Or are you saying ALT+TAB is an action?

I am absolutely saying alt-tab is an action.

Press f1 --> char 1 hits f1.
Press alt+tab --> swap window.
Press f1 --> char 2 hits f1.

With videofx, I'm still using only one window/layer of input.

All I'm saying is it seems like the only people getting banned are those using round robin, while the rest of us aren't.

It'd be kinda stupid not to read into that wouldn't it?

That said, if you wanted to test it, I imagine by this logic:

press f1 --> char 1 presses f1.
press f1 --> swap window.
press f1 --> char 2 presses f1.
press f1 --> swap window.
press f1 --> char 3 presses f1.

etc etc....

Might be ok?

[shadowandlight]

i use round-robin, specifically because CCP said that any action outside of the game client (like switching windows) wasnt an issue and not considered breaking the "one action per client at one time" policy.

i ofc cant find that exact statement right now, but if anyone was going to get banned for using VFX or round-robin I'd assume it would have been me considering I have videos of me using ISBoxer and dozens of petitions from angry Nulli Secunda pilots for using bomber squads.

Wait till I am using isthars... oh man

Now, that all said, I wouldnt be surprised if CCP is making mistakes, people arent telling the full story or all of the above.

However I will say that just based on people's reporting (which we can only take at face value) what is happening can be viewed as

- CCP's detection software is off and they are banning EULA violators (which who knows what that is ATM)

- they are catching people using Input Duplication and those people are changing their stories (of which i think ID should NOT be banned, really dumb move on their part)

- GM's are getting trigger happy and banning people 1st, doing research later.

I will say if someone like CCP Pelligro bans you, I'd be wary and you probably did something wrong. The person that WAS banned however was banned "pending investigation" so perhaps its just a temp thing and you might get it reversed. During the Summer CSM minutes we didnt have a better supporter in CCP then him

Now, if CCP WOULD JUST TALK TO US INSTEAD OF HIDING BEHIND GENERIC PETITION MESSAGES THIS WOULD ALL BE A LOT BETTER!

ANY CSM FEEL LIKE HELPING OUT, YA KNOW, YOUR PLAYER BASE?!

Phew... ok im good now, got that off my chest.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Now, that all said, I wouldnt be surprised if CCP is making mistakes, people arent telling the full story or all of the above.
All of that has happened in just about every other MMO I've ever played, so I wouldn't be surprised either.

[Tool of Society]

Oh I'm sure CCP is making mistakes and that people aren't always telling the full truth.

I think the earlier comment about input rate is on the right track.


I know that in december I was having issues with hotkeys not working if I was using hotkeys too quickly with the repeater. That's what made me suspicious that they were monitoring hotkey input times.

[bugme143]

1409
http://puu.sh/ftOq5.png
Lords, any word from your CSM buddy?

[Tool of Society]

The post has been up for some time. The last time there was a real GM conversation posted it was down pretty quick. It's not like this is an off hour for ISDs and such.

[gomeler]

Well that is very interesting, and disconcerting. Basically, if you want to multibox past simple stuff like carrier + cyno alt, you need to take a huge quality of life hit. That is a real shame. I was okay with the broadcasting changes, as I recognized them as being broken and easily abused. I viewed rollover/round-robin as toeing the line. At this point I use VideoFX due to my pair of panels not being large enough to view the important pieces of information for as many characters as I control. Guess in the end, CCP doesn't know what CCP wants. They encourage multiboxing with power of two and such, but then bomb the experience back to the stone age.

[Lax]

Guys, don't put words into CCP's mouth. People see big fancy words and pastes from EULA and think that Peligro just said that this or that is banned, when in fact he did not.

He very clearly avoided saying anything was banned or prohibited. All he did was reiterate what was said in CCP's dev blog from April 2014 on client modification. In case you need help finding that, here it is for you: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/client-modification-the-eula-and-you/

Don't miss this part:

This extends to multiboxing software. Some of the multiboxing software out there is powerful enough to count as “client modification” if used for that purpose. Our stance on third-party software is that we do not endorse such software as we have no control over what it does. As such, we can’t say that multiboxing software isn’t against our EULA. But the same goes in this case, that unless we determine that people are doing things beyond “multiboxing”, we will not be taking any action. We only care about the instances where people are messing with our process for the purposes of cheating, and running multiple clients at the same time is not in violation of our EULA in and of itself unless it involves trial accounts.

Which is reiterated in Peligro's paste:

We do not endorse or condone the use of player-made software or any other third party applications or software that confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or is used for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use player-made or other third party software at your own risk.

Or, in Peligro's words...
1. "With regards to "round robin" or other features of specific third party programs; We will not authorize or otherwise sanction the use of any third party software. The End User License Agreement and Terms of Service are clear on this subject"
2. "Whether input broadcasting is used, video "overlays" or other features are used does not really matter. These are third party programs which change the way the game is played. This also includes round robin."

That's almost the entirety of his actual post, the rest is a pasted excerpt. But it is very clear that he DID NOT say that round-robin OR Video FX ("overlays") fall under what they consider cheating. All he said is that they will not authorize or sanction the use of any third party software, and that whether broadcasting is used, overlays or round-robin are used, "does not really matter".

So Peligro said literally nothing.

The important takeaway I got from this person is that they were reported by another player, and there was minimal followup observation from a GM. (This was backed up by direct conversation, they confirmed to me that they got banned after a player report.) Players and GMs cannot be expected to tell the difference between input broadcasting, round-robin, video fx with rollover, etc. If you're being observed and look too efficient, they're going to temp ban you. And when your excuse is to show them your uber-clever workaround of the rules "hey I'm not broadcasting, I'm using round-robin" blah blah, they can't verify it and really don't care. All they have to do is agree with the reporting player that an unfair advantage is gained, regardless of your methodology, and temp ban you.

I would still put money down saying there is no automatic detection that people are describing, because a lot more people around here would be banned. Remember, other players have motivation to report you, to get you out of their way. And everyone using multiple accounts, regardless of using ISBoxer or not, is at risk of being banned this way.

More or less cross-posted from ISBoxer forums -- http://isboxer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6569#p30845

[bugme143]

Lax, did you sell out to CCP or something? We have at least two players who were banned for following CCP's new EULA, at least one of which helped another group in-game to come up with ways of multiboxing that fell within the defined EULA, including using petitions and asking CCP directly. CCP told us that there would be no way in hell that their detection software would have false positives, and yet, here we are.

We have a CCP employee flat out lie to us (not even talking about Seagull's Vegas and Fanfest blunders for a moment) when he agreed to a meeting with the multiboxers, and then come out on a podcast saying there will be no meeting.

We have an undefensible change to the EULA that reeks of coming out of the EVE Onion, and people using straw man, ad hominem, and other fallacies to attack ISBoxer, not to mention outright lying in their posts, and CCP doesn't do anything when we show them that we're following the new EULA.

And you expect me to lick their boots and thank them? Hell no.

[Lax]

I'm just telling you what you need to know. Excuse me for trying to clear a few things up in this thread.

My post has nothing to do with whether it is bullshit or not.

[Stevo_]

Im glad i stopped playing the game i love.. CCP made an easy 14.400 dollars a year on my accounts (80x 15 dollars)...

Over the years i have adapted through all the gamechanges. But risking being banned for "random reports" while not even using isboxer means the end for me.

I'm not banned, i just stopped playing after newyear since i was expecting this CCP bullshit - I'm not going to sit around waiting for some twatface to feel like I'm having an advantage. And advantage gained through learning how to play the game as efficienct as i can. This used to be a pvp game where brains, skills and dedication gave you the advantage over those who didn't put time into the game... now it means the you'll get banned since you're using more then one client...and well have an advantage....

[Tool of Society]

There is without a doubt something automated going on. In december I started experiencing hotkey issues that I NEVER experienced before. If I used hotkeys too quickly I would start losing the ability to use them and I would be forced into clicking in the client manually. Unless there was suddenly an isboxer bug I'm not aware of that hit all the clients and all my computers (win 7 xp and win 8.1).

[multiboxingforever]

i hope they will losing so many subscription that they will take a step back in the right direction:rolleyes:

[EaTCarbS]

i hope they will losing so many subscription that they will take a step back in the right direction:rolleyes:

I sincerely doubt they have lost too many subs over this. The game's lifeblood is pvp, and that remains relatively unaltered.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I sincerely doubt they have lost too many subs over this. The game's lifeblood is pvp, and that remains relatively unaltered.
If the ratio of EVE YouTube videos of solo players to multiboxers is a fair sample of the live game, they've got nothing to worry about. And this won't affect people using two accounts, /afk spy accounts, etc.

[Pithy]

The post has been up for some time. The last time there was a real GM conversation posted it was down pretty quick. It's not like this is an off hour for ISDs and such.

It looks like the post has been edited by ISD now ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5463343#post5463343 ). Should this be reason to worry?

[K'man]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=389086

CCP FoxFour helping in the development of a window management 3rd party program created for multi boxing.

It's by no means isboxer but I do find it interesting that there is CCP involvement after all of the misconceptions going around.

[bugme143]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=389086
CCP FoxFour helping in the development of a window management 3rd party program created for multi boxing.
It's by no means isboxer but I do find it interesting that there is CCP involvement after all of the misconceptions going around.
Nothing more than a window management tool, which ISBoxer also has.

[thedevilyouknow]

Personally i've stopped trying to get an answer from the support tickets, way too much messing around with things that should be simpler

No more EVE for me

Good luck to you all -15Acc, guess it is time to go spend time IRL

[multiboxingforever]

Personally i've stopped trying to get an answer from the support tickets, way too much messing around with things that should be simpler

No more EVE for me

Good luck to you all -15Acc, guess it is time to go spend time IRL


the same here, opened a ticket on 30 jan as today no answer!!!!
no more eve for me too
-8Acc

time to play somethin other

[K'man]

Nothing more than a window management tool, which ISBoxer also has.

I understand that its just a simple and still broken window management tool. I would prefer isboxer of that even if that is all I ever used it for. I didn't get a chance to finish what I was gonna say about the topic.

This is what I find interesting the most about the involvement of CCP on this 3rd party tool.


CCP said is that they will not authorize or sanction the use of any third party software

This tool started development right around the time that they introduced to us back in November that there will be regulated policies being put into place.

It is probably nothing important but I just happen to find this by accident and putting the pieces together nothing makes sense anymore.

I have not logged in more than one account since December and will be selling 11 alts next month and will be selling off the other 4 come September. I will try to go back to solo play or until we get some type of clarity.

Maybe we can get some answers come fanfest this year. If that what it takes to bring it up in person.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

This tool started development right around the time that they introduced to us back in November that there will be regulated policies being put into place.

It is probably nothing important but I just happen to find this by accident and putting the pieces together nothing makes sense anymore. That they would have devs assisting with 3rd-party tool development and explicitly refusing to authorize or sanction that same tool doesn't make sense? Think about it from the position of having to run everything past a legal team; should make more sense.

[bugme143]

Someone should interview CCP regarding this and their statement regarding 3rd party programs.

[shadowandlight]

Someone should interview CCP regarding this and their statement regarding 3rd party programs.

yea we've tried

we have a few CCP people for an upcoming podcast (one of which you will be quite interested in asking questions)

but the stipulation was no ISBoxer questions or they wouldnt come lol.... oh well... hopefully CSM 10 will listen to our pleas.

[LordsServant]

1409
http://puu.sh/ftOq5.png
Lords, any word from your CSM buddy?

From what I've talked with him about it, it's looking increasingly unlikely, which really sucks. :(

I'm currently super busy atm with trying to recover 2 of my accounts, one of which was stolen/"hacked" and the other which was tempbanned pending investigation of the aforementioned theft (standard practice with stuff of this magnitude.) Hilariously, these happen to be my two main accounts(with all my assets), so I'm sorta stuck with absolutely nothing while I wait on that, which sorta takes up most of my time/effort. :P

[bugme143]

Wonderful. Seriously tempted to chargeback CCP for all my gametime right now.

e: and that's why Oatmeal is dead all of a sudden...

[LordsServant]

that's why Oatmeal is dead all of a sudden...

lolyep.

Also just found out that the guy who stole my account has been trying to smear my name to people who have/do know me. As part of this, he's also doxxing my RL info. Heh.

[EaTCarbS]

Its funny how mad some people get. Not sure how you'd manage to get your account stolen though. :rolleyes:

[Mosg2]

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/52002-Post-EULA-Change-EvE-Multiboxing

We'll see how long it takes CCP to ban me :)

If they don't, I'll take that as tacit approval of everything I'm doing here.

Changed link from direct YouTube link to your video thread so that people can discuss what's happening in your video thread rather than potentially derail these other threads.
-MiRai

[LordsServant]

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/52002-Post-EULA-Change-EvE-Multiboxing

We'll see how long it takes CCP to ban me :)

If they don't, I'll take that as tacit approval of everything I'm doing here.

1.5-2b per hour for 20 accounts?

:(

I guess it's super safe cause :hisec:, but eh. That's pretty horrible isk/char(and in general considering TWENTY accounts). How much were you making running c5s post blue loot change with your setup? I downsized 2 of my gilas due to computer issues (I need a new gfx card I think, maybe a better cpu, tho dunno, I don't like being unable to record my stuff) recently, but with my original 11 char setup I was pulling about 1.2-1.5/hour - that was with low sp chars and in an entirely nonoptimized setup (I could run pve fits, but I'm lazy and would rather be able to take a fight if I get jumped than make more isk/h).

Also, I gotta chat with you sometimeish. :)

[bugme143]

Dammit Lords you're making me wanna join your alliance, or at the very least hang out and bullshit on TS.

[Mosg2]

I hadn't run any C5 sites after the blue loot change. If I can get each site down to 12 minutes, which I think is more than doable, it'd be more like 1.7-2b an hour. That's pretty good for being in hisec, though not mind-blowing.

Cash in WH space isn't a problem. The issue is constantly needing other people to scout, scan, tackle, bubble etc. The biggest draw to multiboxing, for me, is being pretty much self-sufficient. There's not so much of that in WH space :/

[Mosg2]

Well, all 20 of my accounts were banned yesterday for 'Macro Use' while I still had a ticket in about multiboxing. I have not received an email explaining the situation, just a message when I tried to log in. When I do get it, I intend on posting it for everyone's edification.

In other news, a little birdy sent me a copy of a response they got from CCP about multiboxing. I'm presently negotiating its release to the public; in short, though, I'll say that in CCP's view, anything that you do with ISBoxer or a similar program that makes controlling multiple characters faster than alt tabbing is considered a bannable offense.

[shadowandlight]

Well, all 20 of my accounts were banned yesterday for 'Macro Use' while I still had a ticket in about multiboxing. I have not received an email explaining the situation, just a message when I tried to log in. When I do get it, I intend on posting it for everyone's edification.

In other news, a little birdy sent me a copy of a response they got from CCP about multiboxing. I'm presently negotiating its release to the public; in short, though, I'll say that in CCP's view, anything that you do with ISBoxer or a similar program that makes controlling multiple characters faster than alt tabbing is considered a bannable offense.

what a joke....

you were doing incursions right? Using Round-Robins / VFX?

Ninja Edit: I am easily of the opinion you were petitioned, a GM probably watched you for 30 seconds and assumed your way too good of a player to not be "cheating" and just decided to ban 20 accounts without asking you what you were doing.

CCP Falcon / Leelo claim that the GM team and the developers are in constant communication and "on the same page".

Why do I find that hard to believe.

[Mosg2]

The multiplex/input-broadcasting change was made in order to eliminate certain patterns of play that gave those involved unfair advantages over other players. If using any other set up results in same or similar unfair advantages then those patterns of play are clearly not safe to employ and players risk getting banned for it. The end result is an unfair advantage over other users playing the game with the EVE Online client as it is shipped and action will be taken in such cases. The video you linked is in violation of our policies at this point.

Questions regarding specific features or technical aspects of 3rd party tools, over-lays, key-bindings etc. are addressed in the EULA, section 6. A:

2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.

3. You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

Any unfair advantages over other players by means of macros, key-bindings, overlays, 3rd party tools, etc., are subject to this rule and violations will result in action against users involved.

Whether you are using round robin, input broadcasting, rollovers or some other feature of some other third party software - the end result is much the same. I apologize for repeating myself, but this EULA clause is key:
"2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."

Please refer to our policies, found here:
http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/

The third party policies page offers clarification on some topics covered in the EULA:
http://community.eveonline.com/suppo...arty-policies/ (http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/)

Best regards,
CCP xxxx
Team Security

~~~

That's the response. I have screenshots, but I'd prefer to try and retain anonymity for the guy brave enough to share.

The basic takeaway is that they don't give a good fuck about how you're doing it--They only care if it makes you faster than alt-tabbing. If the answer is yes, your time is coming. Le sigh.

[Mosg2]

I also created a reddit post. I would personally like to see the multiboxing post on the CCP forums flamed with the link and/or the email and see if we can get CCP to respond.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2xeevl/ccps_real_stance_on_multiboxing/

[shadowandlight]

if they are going to come out with the opinion that you cannot be faster than someone who is alt-tabbing then they need to tell us specifically how fast you're allowed to be.

if I send a command every. 5 seconds am I in violation of the rule which they won't describe this is completely ridiculous

[ebony]

I hadn't run any C5 sites after the blue loot change. If I can get each site down to 12 minutes, which I think is more than doable, it'd be more like 1.7-2b an hour. That's pretty good for being in hisec, though not mind-blowing.

Cash in WH space isn't a problem. The issue is constantly needing other people to scout, scan, tackle, bubble etc. The biggest draw to multiboxing, for me, is being pretty much self-sufficient. There's not so much of that in WH space :/

Sorry to hear that mosg2 or though i love watching your videos i don't get eve a nulf to play it. why did they just not say at the start eve = mutiboxing = ban.

it seems more and more games are banning it now. or not even letting you do it from the start maybe isboxer got to good.

[Kicksome]

Hi Mosg2,
Sorry to hear about your loss. I'm going to cancel my eve subs.

As far as what ebony said about more games banning it now. I think we have more options than ever actually, as far as games go - at least with isboxer.

Eve is just such a serious game, and there are tons of HUGE groups of thugs out there. They way it's structured, they can really make a stink about anything in large numbers.

[shadowandlight]

Before everyone unsubs their accounts please vote for CSM 10 Candidates that you agree with on multiboxing.

1-2 CSM 9 members caused this and with proper campaigning we can get it reversed.

[Mosg2]

Did nobody post it over on the multiboxing post on the Eve forums, or was it trimmed?

[shadowandlight]

I posted in the eve thread the voting list.

[pinotnoir]

Sorry to hear about the ban Mosg2. You are the best Isboxer I know. It's a shame they have a witch hunt out for Isboxer. I am letting my accounts expire. It's just no fun anymore. I tried to cope with the change but I have to restrict my game play so much that it's no longer fun.

[Mosg2]

Thanks for the support guys. I knew when I resubbed in late January that there was a 50-60% chance of getting banned; I wasn't walking into it blind. I figured if I did get banned it'd make it easier to go back to WoW, and if I didn't then I could have fun getting ships blown up :)

[ebony]

Thanks for the support guys. I knew when I resubbed in late January that there was a 50-60% chance of getting banned; I wasn't walking into it blind. I figured if I did get banned it'd make it easier to go back to WoW, and if I didn't then I could have fun getting ships blown up :)


Mosg2 wow isboxer setup :) can not wait!

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Mosg2 wow isboxer setup :) can not wait!

Seconded! :p

[thedevilyouknow]

In other news i got unbanned today

all my isk is gone (even the isk i didnt earn multiboxing incursions...lol)

what to do now...

I was going to set up a dashboard with vidfx but there is alot of shit flying around saying that video fx is also illegal

E:Inb4 lords mad post

Sorry for your loss tony, if you hadnt gotten banned i was actually planning to sub more accounts :D going to start multiboxing rift soon :D (cant handle wows pay model :( ) good luck wherever you go

E2: (sorry) received very similar response from GM, they seem to reply to ban threads after the ban has been lifted.

ALSO, who said Videofx are legal? from what im seeing video FX are illegal....

[bugme143]

Let's see Lax and the CSM try to spin THIS one!

[shadowandlight]

In other news i got unbanned today

all my isk is gone (even the isk i didnt earn multiboxing incursions...lol)

what to do now...

I was going to set up a dashboard with vidfx but there is alot of shit flying around saying that video fx is also illegal

E:Inb4 lords mad post

Sorry for your loss tony, if you hadnt gotten banned i was actually planning to sub more accounts :D going to start multiboxing rift soon :D (cant handle wows pay model :( ) good luck wherever you go

E2: (sorry) received very similar response from GM, they seem to reply to ban threads after the ban has been lifted.

ALSO, who said Videofx are legal? from what im seeing video FX are illegal....

Why the hell would they unban you but take your isk??

Have they offered any explanation at all?

[Mosg2]

@thedevilyouknow
I received a screen shot of a GM response to multiboxing questions. It's what I posted on page 7. I'm 100% convinced that it is legit.

[thedevilyouknow]

To clarify, I wasnt unbanned (misuse of the word apologies) The ban ran its course, and my accounts were drained of isk (apparently isboxing is in line with the policy for botting, yay...not like i spent dozens of hours theory crafting, training and practicing)

mosg i saw that page, my response looks identical in many areas with just a bit extra

[shadowandlight]

To clarify, I wasnt unbanned (misuse of the word apologies) The ban ran its course, and my accounts were drained of isk (apparently isboxing is in line with the policy for botting, yay...not like i spent dozens of hours theory crafting, training and practicing)

mosg i saw that page, my response looks identical in many areas with just a bit extra

petition for the isk back.

per their policy
here
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571
or
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/begun-the-bot-war-has/?_ga=1.164895167.1417290520.1423025845
they make no mention of seizing isk or assets

[thedevilyouknow]

petition for the isk back.

per their policy
here
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571
or
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/begun-the-bot-war-has/?_ga=1.164895167.1417290520.1423025845
they make no mention of seizing isk or assets


they directed me to this when they mentioned the assets seized
http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-banning-policy/

[shadowandlight]

So I guess they are now placing VFX / Round-Robin into the EXPLOIT category!? Have the wheels fallen off the bus at this company?

[thedevilyouknow]

apparently according to lords, vfx are legal.....waiting for official response before i unsub all my accounts

[EaTCarbS]

How exactly would they determine you're using vidfx to begin with? From their end it is indistinguishable from alt-tabbing.

[shadowandlight]

if your too good they just ban you, that appears to be how it shakes out

[Tool of Society]

So I'm using a third party program (windows 7) to alter the appearance of the game environment content. So I'm breaking the rules now by playing in windowed mode? Holy shit no wonder they didn't want to draw a line or even discuss this. CCP's stance is fucking insane.

Apparently high 6 minute low 7 minute ticks are fine for vanguards.


CCP doesn't seem to realize they aren't the only option anymore when it comes to space combat mmos.

There's so many free GOOD MMOs I've begun considering quitting before I become the next ban.

So who's up for reporting everyone in game for having an unfair advantage? IT's not fair you started playing the game before I was able to which caused you to have more SP then me. It's not fair you had more isk invested in your ship in our fight!!!

My god what a mess.

[thedevilyouknow]

If you're too good, and they ban you, does that mean those that use local overlays and are too good at pvp also get banned?

Also shadow, you've been using vfx, round robin and rollover yes?

[shadowandlight]

If you're too good, and they ban you, does that mean those that use local overlays and are too good at pvp also get banned?

Also shadow, you've been using vfx, round robin and rollover yes?

for bombers ive been using rollovers and vfx, I could use round-robins but rollovers are faster in some situations

[MiRai]

Let's see Lax and the CSM try to spin THIS one!
Spin what? His prior post on the matter seemed to be pretty spot on:


Players and GMs cannot be expected to tell the difference between input broadcasting, round-robin, video fx with rollover, etc. If you're being observed and look too efficient, they're going to temp ban you. And when your excuse is to show them your uber-clever workaround of the rules "hey I'm not broadcasting, I'm using round-robin" blah blah, they can't verify it and really don't care. All they have to do is agree with the reporting player that an unfair advantage is gained, regardless of your methodology, and temp ban you.

[bugme143]

Spin what? His prior post on the matter seemed to be pretty spot on:
Except we were promised explicitly that they had the means to differentiate between the three and would only target input duplication/broadcasting. If a GM doesn't give a shit about the game he was hired to police, he should quit or be fired. We the players have sunk time, money, and effort into this game, and we're supposed to be OK with what may be some Indian call center rent-a-GM who wishes he was back at home instead of at work? I don't buy it.

As for "unfair advantage", we've had this discussion millions of times in the weekly GD threads of the people crying about "wah my kitchen sink noob incursion fleet lost a contest with a super-bling super skilled isboxer", "wah someone mined 'my' minerals in the asteroid belt", "wah my AFK hauling freighter with 20b worth of blue loot and deadspace modules got ganked in Niarja", and my personal favorite, "wah my fleet was sitting on a planet 100% AFK with no scouts and we got bombed".

[thedevilyouknow]

As for "unfair advantage", we've had this discussion millions of times in the weekly GD threads of the people crying about "wah my kitchen sink noob incursion fleet lost a contest with a super-bling super skilled isboxer", "wah someone mined 'my' minerals in the asteroid belt", "wah my AFK hauling freighter with 20b worth of blue loot and deadspace modules got ganked in Niarja", and my personal favorite, "wah my fleet was sitting on a planet 100% AFK with no scouts and we got bombed".


There is a theme here
If you are TOO good, at controlling multiple accounts, you will be banned

I.e. if, as you say, but time, money and effort into EVE and work extremely diligently, and eventually compete against a group of other players, drunk, messing around and putting in 10% effort, and you beat them in whatever way, you will be banned

If they cannot differentiate between the three, then we have a problem, also have a problem where if there is a "Indian call center rent-a-gm" who receives X amount of petitions on certain characters, and auto bans them, then any multiboxer who was previously banned will receive a permanent ban and be done with the game.

Bottom line is, we have no leverage and are expendable
CCP has inadvertently shaken consumer confidence - that is an undeniable fact regardless of whether you have been banned or not, as logically, if you see a governing force of any description, suddenly change its ways, or penalize a population for previously unstated reasons then yes you should be worried.

Also this poem comes to mind, for some reason...

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

[Mosg2]

@all
As others have previously said, the situation is basically "If you're too efficient then you're going to get temp banned." I don't know what their metric is for pvp. The real question, even though it's rhetorical, is "Does it matter?"

You could get temp banned at any point. It will take them 2-3 weeks to process your request to have it lifted. Then you could get banned again for being too efficient. I don't know about you, but I prefer a little bit more stability and regularity in my game-play. Shrug.

[thedevilyouknow]

shame mosg, i love all your setups, should be part of eve porn on reddit

Personally for my ban, i got a reply literally 1 day before it ran its full course
So 1 day - infinity for a permanent ban

I petitioned for CCP's renewed stance on videoFX because they like to change things

Also might see if i can get the first ban lifted from my accounts
Which i hear some people have tried

I don't like the idea of a "efficiency wall" that is also invisible - so don't use round robin or rollovers, the gm response mosg got is legit

As long as i get a green light on VideoFX that leaves a small window of hope, but stil lweary of signing up more accounts

@mosg what game will you play now?

[Mosg2]

@thedevilyouknow
The problem with a positive response to VFX is that it still doesn't solve the 'efficiency wall' as you put it. If you're too efficient, you'll get the ban.

I'll probably go back to WoW. Playing on a super-unbalanced server (Kil'jaeden-Horde) means that there are fights everywhere.

[thedevilyouknow]

Some of the fun with multiboxing fleets was that you could develop ways to become as efficient as possible without having to worry about 3rd parties and focus on your own clients.
Yes that's the problem, if the stance from the start had been "no input dupe, no RR, no rollovers" but vid fx are okay so all you crazy efficient multiboxers have at it, we'd all be mostly fine, some might want to argue but those are clear, concise terms that we do not have to worry about false bans or bans due to petitions

Id love to multibox wow someday but paywall :(

[Tool of Society]

@thedevilyouknow
The problem with a positive response to VFX is that it still doesn't solve the 'efficiency wall' as you put it. If you're too efficient, you'll get the ban.

I'll probably go back to WoW. Playing on a super-unbalanced server (Kil'jaeden-Horde) means that there are fights everywhere.
Wow has been changed so that it doesn't matter what server you're on when it comes to world pvp. Blizzard in an attempt to balance numbers combines city and overworld maps across servers so there's more of a balance of horde vs alliance.

I can't wait till my windowed mode is too fast and I get banned...



Am I the only one that finds it completely hypocritical of CCP to now be worrying about one very very narrow "unfair advantage" while advocating others and even advertising on the fact that eve isn't fair?

[bugme143]

I'd like to be the first to congratulate EVE Protection Agency corporation for their boxed bomber squad (https://xplct.zkillboard.com/kill/44664083/) that killed Corebloodbrother, and that bombed a rupture fleet (https://xplct.zkillboard.com/related/30001162/201502162100/o/%7B%22A%22%3A%5B%2299002422%22%5D%2C%22B%22%3A%5B% 2299003393%22%2C%22498125261%22%2C%2299003214%22%5 D%7D/). I apologize for the bad BR, as I don't know which minor alliance is on which side.

[shadowandlight]

I'd like to be the first to congratulate EVE Protection Agency corporation for their boxed bomber squad (https://xplct.zkillboard.com/kill/44664083/) that killed Corebloodbrother, and that bombed a rupture fleet (https://xplct.zkillboard.com/related/30001162/201502162100/o/%7B%22A%22%3A%5B%2299002422%22%5D%2C%22B%22%3A%5B% 2299003393%22%2C%22498125261%22%2C%2299003214%22%5 D%7D/). I apologize for the bad BR, as I don't know which minor alliance is on which side.

you have no proof that this was a multiboxed bomber fleet, nor are you or anyone else able to qualify what they did, or did not do, as an unfair advantage!

get this slander off these forums!

(who was the FC, i want to send him a thank you)

[thedevilyouknow]

Going to specifically point out this segment from the post Mosg put up

]The multiplex/input-broadcasting change was made in order to eliminate certain patterns of play that gave those involved unfair advantages over other players. If using any other set up results in same or similar unfair advantages then those patterns of play are clearly not safe to employ and players risk getting banned for it. The end result is an unfair advantage over other users playing the game with the EVE Online client as it is shipped and action will be taken in such cases.

Read it carefully

[LordsServant]

Going to specifically point out this segment from the post Mosg put up

The multiplex/input-broadcasting change was made in order to eliminate certain patterns of play that gave those involved unfair advantages over other players. If using any other set up results in same or similar unfair advantages then those patterns of play are clearly not safe to employ and players risk getting banned for it. The end result is an unfair advantage over other users playing the game with the EVE Online client as it is shipped and action will be taken in such cases.

Read it carefully

Right. So STRICTLY interpret these rules as they are.

Are you doing anything that another player in the game couldn't do? Don't do it.

With my setup - I use videofx simply to move around the actual ingame assets. Any player in the game can move their mouse and click a button - just like I do. Any player in the game can go click their broadcast window - just like I do.

Any player in the game CANNOT scroll their mouse wheel and fire off 20 rattlesnake's worth of missiles.

I'd say avoid any and ALL shenanigans. If it can't be done by someone in the normal game don't do it.

[New Horizon]

Any player in the game CANNOT scroll their mouse wheel and fire off 20 rattlesnake's worth of missiles.

In my point of view, everything Mosg2 showed in his video was okay - except that. So, am I correct assuming that using videoFX for snipping the EVE windows in parts like he did would be okay, since it's only "window management" and the same could be done by alt-tabbing or similar? How do you think about it?

[bugme143]

And not every player can use EVEMon, or PYFA, or EFT, or use Fuzzworks to it's full extent, or use whatever that new market thing that shadow mentioned, or..... do I need to go on? If CCP wants to ban one thing that has ZERO PROOF THAT IT CREATES AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE and has serious weaknesses to EWAR, then they need to ban anything that looks like it can create an unfair advantage. Anyone can bind "Scroll Wheel Down" as F1, and indeed many FPS players bind SWD for M1 for pistols or semi-autos.
We have been shown no evidence that ISBoxer creates an advantage, and indeed there's quite a bit of evidence about it's weakness. We have seen, in response to our statements and evidence and request to be left alone: ad hominem attacks, strawman fallacies, True Scotsman fallacies, outright insults, verbal abuse, Kafkatraps, and a general lack of knowledge of the program and of the EULA.

[moog]

Surely, sitting on a gate with a 10-man remote sebo fleet is a hugely unfair advantage over little ole me just tootling through lowsec?

Where do I submit my 'refund' request when I'm ganked that way?

[shadowandlight]

Right. So STRICTLY interpret these rules as they are.

Are you doing anything that another player in the game couldn't do? Don't do it.

With my setup - I use videofx simply to move around the actual ingame assets. Any player in the game can move their mouse and click a button - just like I do. Any player in the game can go click their broadcast window - just like I do.

Any player in the game CANNOT scroll their mouse wheel and fire off 20 rattlesnake's worth of missiles.

I'd say avoid any and ALL shenanigans. If it can't be done by someone in the normal game don't do it.

how many normal players are able to run 10+ accounts, have the hardware for it, are able to spend the days required to tweak their setups to be effective multiboxing etc etc etc

its a ridiculous situation!

[Tool of Society]

I can run 8 accounts easily on my old e7200 dual core system which is about 6 or so years old now. The major limiting factor is ram.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Kafkatraps
I learned something today. :p I knew about the concept but never heard a name put to it. o7

[Mosg2]

@Lords
Sorry dude, but the response is pretty clear: Anything you're doing, no matter what program etc, doesn't matter; they're only looking at how efficient you are. VFX do speed things up, obviously, because you don't have to tab to that window and move your mouse as far to do that action. Don't be disingenuous.

[bugme143]

I learned something today. :p I knew about the concept but never heard a name put to it. o7
Well well, I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks! :cool:

jk

[LordsServant]

And not every player can use EVEMon, or PYFA, or EFT, or use Fuzzworks to it's full extent, or use whatever that new market thing that shadow mentioned, or..... do I need to go on? If CCP wants to ban one thing that has ZERO PROOF THAT IT CREATES AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE and has serious weaknesses to EWAR, then they need to ban anything that looks like it can create an unfair advantage. Anyone can bind "Scroll Wheel Down" as F1, and indeed many FPS players bind SWD for M1 for pistols or semi-autos.
We have been shown no evidence that ISBoxer creates an advantage, and indeed there's quite a bit of evidence about it's weakness. We have seen, in response to our statements and evidence and request to be left alone: ad hominem attacks, strawman fallacies, True Scotsman fallacies, outright insults, verbal abuse, Kafkatraps, and a general lack of knowledge of the program and of the EULA.

Evemon does not interact with the game client. You are clicking the buttons to train the skills it advises you to.

PYFA and EFT both do not interact with the game client - you are clicking the buttons to fit the ship as you choose ingame.

Fuzzworks also....does not interact with the game client. It simply advises you on what t do.

Please do go on.....

Ofc anyone could bind scroll wheel down to f1, but guess what? Scrolling down won't activate f1 on all of their chars - just the one currently selected.

You need to go from one to the next THEN scroll down or do w/e you bound f1 to.

Round Robin, per CCP's ALREADY STATED RULES of 1 input = 1 output already clearly show that to be against their new regulations.

It WOULD be legal to scroll down(hitting f1), go to the next client, then scroll down again.

1 input = 1 output.

Again, with videofx only - I click once ingame, and then I manually move my mouse over to wherever else, then manually click the ingame button for w/e again.

Just stick to doing things as close to the original client as possible, while avoiding shenanigans and STRICTLY interpret the eula - you should be fine.

[bugme143]

Rollover: One button per 1 action.
Round Robin: One button per 1 action.

CCP's policy is very clear: ANYTHING that may provide an advantage is bannable. Doesn't matter if it interacts with the client or not. If CCP wants to enforce a relatively small part of their EULA on a relatively small group of players who want to be left the fuck alone and who don't, in any measurable or appreciable way, cause players to leave the game, they ought to enforce the EULA on everyone. /sarcasm

[thedevilyouknow]

@Lords
Sorry dude, but the response is pretty clear: Anything you're doing, no matter what program etc, doesn't matter; they're only looking at how efficient you are. VFX do speed things up, obviously, because you don't have to tab to that window and move your mouse as far to do that action. Don't be disingenuous.

Pretty much this, if you have an advantage against anyone just playing the game as it was shipped, they can, ban you at any time

[shadowandlight]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2xr099/hey_fuck_you_oodell/

Oodell is causing mass anger

hilarious

[Tool of Society]

I didn't realize so many people were so bad at the game. The spread of bombs is easy to do without a repeater or any real tricks.

[LordsServant]

Rollover: One button per 1 action.
Round Robin: One button per 1 action.

CCP's policy is very clear: ANYTHING that may provide an advantage is bannable. Doesn't matter if it interacts with the client or not. If CCP wants to enforce a relatively small part of their EULA on a relatively small group of players who want to be left the fuck alone and who don't, in any measurable or appreciable way, cause players to leave the game, they ought to enforce the EULA on everyone. /sarcasm

No matter how many times you say that, it doesn't make it true.

Round Robin = 2 actions, 1 input.

I'm not 100% sure on how you guys are doing rollover, since my original idea for rollover (spamming f1 then moving your mouse along the windows to swap focus) is far different from w/e one is "popular" now, but I'd be willing to bet it'd be 2 actions for 1 input similar to Round Robin.

It's pretty simple; stick to straightforward perfectly simple stuff that is just like the game in its original format......or you can continue whining about GMs, conspiracy theories, and do illegal things until you're banned.

The choice is pretty easy for me. vOv

[thedevilyouknow]

yet to get proper response about VideoFX, not multiboxing till i get that reply - ALSO yes it is clear, anything that is an advantage is illegal...so....vov

Also i think eve and wow have taken some flips, Wowtokens are coming for those multiboxers who want to "plex" their gametime, we can go play wow now

[shadowandlight]

yet to get proper response about VideoFX, not multiboxing till i get that reply

i want a specific "no more then this many commands to your clients per second" ruling

none of this really gray area garbage

[thedevilyouknow]

i want a specific "no more then this many commands to your clients per second" ruling

none of this really gray area garbage

I personally believe that whoever made that statement was false, in the EULA theres some tiny clause about them having the legal right to monitor your pc for programs, they can tell if we use isboxer or not

[MiRai]

Round Robin = 2 actions, 1 input.
You're going to have to explain this statement to me (and probably others). What are the two actions you speak of?


yet to get proper response about VideoFX, not multiboxing till i get that reply
You're not going to get a reply that says "X feature is allowed." How many times do people have to keep repeating this?

[thedevilyouknow]

You're not going to get a reply that says "X feature is allowed." How many times do people have to keep repeating this?

X feature is not allowed is very similar to X feature is allowed, just a matter on semantics and which what we do to our checklist, tick or cross

Ive already gotten a response as to what is not allowed, however am not taking that is "everything i did not mention is allowed" so excuse me on wanting clarification

[MiRai]

X feature is not allowed is very similar to X feature is allowed, just a matter on semantics and which what we do to our checklist, tick or cross

Ive already gotten a response as to what is not allowed, however am not taking that is "everything i did not mention is allowed" so excuse me on wanting clarification
So, when they say that X feature is allowed, and then X feature changes because it's out of their control... Then what? Then you wait for a new response? What if they change their minds about feature X in two months and they stop allowing it? Are you on a mailing list to get that updated information? What if you don't know that they changed their mind for that one feature and now you're at risk for using it?

This is the exact same in every single game that we, as players, multibox. Blizzard doesn't tell us what features aren't allowed, they give us a guideline for what is allowed and we adhere to it because they would never, and probably cannot legally, state publicly, on their forum, what features of X third-party program are allowed, and aren't allowed. The same goes for Trion, SquareEnix, CCP, NCSoft, etc. because if they do not control what that feature of the third-party program can do, then they cannot make that statement with confidence. If they were to give specifics like what you're asking, then people would take those statements, build a setup around that statement, and then try to play innocent when the banhammer comes because they weren't actually adhering the original guideline.

Video FX can break the "one action, per key press, per game client" rule set by CCP if you configure them a certain way, so for them to specifically state that the Video FX feature is 100% allowed would be highly unlikely. So, instead, they say what is allowed, which is "one action, per key press, per game client," and you adhere to those rules instead.

With everything said above, I'm not here to argue about what others have or haven't been adhering to and why they've been the victim of temporary suspensions, I'm just making an argument for why you won't get them to state that X feature is allowed, and even if you could, it's likely unofficial or "off the record."

[thedevilyouknow]

So, instead, they say what is allowed, which is "one action, per key press, per game client," and you adhere to those rules instead.


You clearly haven't been paying attention, they sent out petitions in copy paste glory, they've changed their stance

Even those who may have previously abiding by the 1 to 1 rule, if anyone is overly efficient to anyone else who plays the game then the multiboxer would get banned

So in that regard, if they can change the statemented "rule" they made official - unofficially - then it isn't too much to ask for what is if they have already listed every other feature of isboxer as illegal or legal and im waiting for the last little clarification

[MiRai]

You clearly haven't been paying attention, they sent out petitions in copy paste glory, they've changed their stance

Even those who may have previously abiding by the 1 to 1 rule, if anyone is overly efficient to anyone else who plays the game then the multiboxer would get banned

So in that regard, if they can change the statemented "rule" they made official - unofficially - then it isn't too much to ask for what is if they have already listed every other feature of isboxer as illegal or legal and im waiting for the last little clarification
Well, on one hand you ignored my entire post and picked out one sentence, and on the other hand, you've reinforced exactly why it's silly to ask for specifics, but I'd also ask that you provide a link to CCP giving an unofficial statement about how being too efficient when multiboxing will land you a ban, because if you don't have a link then it's based purely upon the speculation in this thread.

[bugme143]

Getting a statement out of CCP is like squeezing blood out of a rock. CCP gave us said guideline and then went and banned people for crossing over it. GG.

[LordsServant]

You're going to have to explain this statement to me (and probably others). What are the two actions you speak of?

NP, thought I'd mentioned it here somewhere, but I'll explain it again.

----------

Input on Left, Action on Right:

Vanilla Player:

f1 OR click module --> activate module on eve client 1.
alt tab OR move mouse to other eve window --> swap focus to different eve window.
f1 OR click module --> active module on eve client 2.

Isboxing Round Robin:

f1 --> f1 on eve client 1.
f1 --> f1 on eve client 2.

Isboxing Simple VideoFX:

f1 OR click module --> activate module on eve client 1.
move mouse to other eve window OR hit ctrl+"some number" (in my setups case) --> swap focus to different eve window.
f1 OR click module --> activate module on eve client 2.

-------------------

You'll notice two of these are almost identical.

Can you tell me which of those is not like the others?

If you said Round Robin, you'd be correct.

Somewhere between:
"f1 --> f1 on eve client 1."
and
"f1 --> f1 on eve client 2."
there is a:
???? --> Swap Window Focus.

You argue it differently if you want, but you still end up with:
"f1 --> f1 on eve client 1."
"f1 --> swap window focus to eve client 2."
"??? --> f1 on eve client 2."

You can't explain to me how you're swapping window focus - that is an action that must be taken by a vanilla user, and using round robin completely circumvents it.

I'm not sure how Rollover works, since it's not the rollover I originally envisioned (manually spam f1, then move your mouse over various eve windows to hit f1 when your mouse moves over it), but if it does ANYTHING like round robin - then it is also breaking the 1 input, 1 output rule.

Anyone can argue these points til they're blue in the face, but the evidence sorta speaks for itself. I'm not banned, despite putting up a video myself, and with one of my accounts stolen a month or so ago, CCP went over my shit with a fine-toothed comb - they knew my accounts, how many I had, what they flew, what they did, etc etc - no bans or mention of isboxer(or "macro use" as they'd call it when done illegally).

------------

I also want to echo Mirai again with a "CCP will NEVER say 'isboxer feature xxy is perfectly ok,' since they cannot talk about specific stuff." If you want, just think of translating a different language.

Macro Use = any program interacting with the game. Isboxer is such a program. They're not gonna call you out for "isboxer use."

Hopefully that clears some stuff up.

[shadowandlight]

Here is the real issue for me ATM.

Input Duplication - Considered now against the EULA. Ok Fine.

Video FX - No explanation
Round-Robin - No explanation
Rollover - No Explanation

Each one of these can be used to emulate someone using Input Duplication (but make no mistake to those who don't use these tools, they are NOT sending more then 1 command to more then 1 client at a time in their basic usage).

Someone please try to explain why they can call out Input Duplication but not provide any clarity for ANYTHING else.

What I assume is happening is CCP has decided they can't really figure out if someone is using any of the above, they just say "hey this guy is **TOO** good, so lets just ban him".

Here is the MAJOR issue with Versimilli.

We dont know what is or is not allowed aside from ID, but in CCP's extremely vague definition he was banned per his words. All his isk was confiscated as well (that is so far over the line I can't even put it into words with getting seriously angry).

He had a ticket into CCP asking if there was any issues with what he was doing, their response? Banned without any answer.
Here is the video he submitted - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFdYO9h0H3Y

Wanna know the WORST part about this?

CCP Falcon stated on 2 podcast's that the best solution was to send in a petition to start a dialogue with CCP. He stated their would be no repercussions and made comments that CCP is looking to help, not ban, its players.

Listen for yourself

http://t.co/Tzs4NYanpu @ 1:14
and
http://show.gamingradio.net/podpress_trac/web/181/0/GRNShow250115.mp3 @ 2:07

The OPPOSITE reaction occurred. He gets BANNED and ALL his isk confiscated. Really? REALLY??

[Stevo_]

still glad I left EVE.... seems ccp went full retarded and is punishing it's playerbase that has gone with the "forced" game changes and evolution that require you to have alts...

"just don't do it to efficient, we dont want you to get better at our game otherwise we have to actualy balance our broken game features"

[MiRai]

You can't explain to me how you're swapping window focus - that is an action that must be taken by a vanilla user, and using round robin completely circumvents it.
I would never consider changing window focus to be an in-game action since it's a function of the operating system, but if what you say is true, then...

Two Mapped Keys:
Pressing F1, from Slot 1, sends F1 to Slot 1
Pressing F2, from Slot 1, sends F1 to Slot 2

Those are two completely separate Mapped Keys not using round-robin, but they can both function just fine w/o having to change window focus, so... Where (or when) is the window focus change happening in my example?

[LordsServant]

I would never consider changing window focus to be an in-game action since it's a function of the operating system, but if what you say is true, then...

Two Mapped Keys:
Pressing F1, from Slot 1, sends F1 to Slot 1
Pressing F2, from Slot 1, sends F1 to Slot 2

Those are two completely separate Mapped Keys not using round-robin, but they can both function just fine w/o having to change window focus, so... Where (or when) is the window focus change happening in my example?

It's happening when you press f2. You instantly swap focus to slot 2 and send the f1 there. If you say "but I'm still focused on window 1" then it's even worse - you're swapping focus to window 2, activating a command, then swapping back to window 1 all in one go.

Even if you want to argue that it's not for arguments sake - vanilla players cannot do the same thing no matter what.

It's been well established for a very long time (see: Bacon back in 2007 or something, along with many others) that using a program that specifically gives you the ability to do something impossible to do as a player in the vanilla game is a big "NOAP."

Isboxer entirely aside, throwing commands out to various clients without having to swap windows/window focus is entirely against the EULA for that reason.

I'm happy to casually debate in a friendly manner, but the evidence speaks for itself - I'm not banned, despite CCP having an EXTREMELY close look at my actions and accounts, while everyone who we know for a FACT has been petitioned that uses round robin/rollover - has been banned.

Looks pretty cut and dry to me.

[thedevilyouknow]

Here is the real issue for me ATM.

Input Duplication - Considered now against the EULA. Ok Fine.

Video FX - No explanation
Round-Robin - No explanation
Rollover - No Explanation

Each one of these can be used to emulate someone using Input Duplication (but make no mistake to those who don't use these tools, they are NOT sending more then 1 command to more then 1 client at a time in their basic usage).


Okay im just going to come out and say it

Page 7, legit.

If ccp is going to give copy paste answers in petitions im allowed to recognize things for what they are

Edit: With Lords on the window focus swapping, is that why to use Vidfx you have to click once first to 'focus' the window on the videofx tile, or am i doing something wrong?


but I'd also ask that you provide a link to CCP giving an unofficial statement about how being too efficient when multiboxing will land you a ban, because if you don't have a link then it's based purely upon the speculation in this thread.

You want my petition response? its near identical to the one on page 7
have at it

[Lax]

on the window focus swapping, is that why to use Vidfx you have to click once first to 'focus' the window on the videofx tile, or am i doing something wrong?
No. It sounds like you're using DxNothing and putting your Video FX Viewers in that, right? You have to click to first focus the DxNothing window because in your Window Layout you have not ticked the "Focus follows mouse" box :)

... now back to your regularly scheduled riff raff.

[LordsServant]

No. It sounds like you're using DxNothing and putting your Video FX Viewers in that, right? You have to click to first focus the DxNothing window because in your Window Layout you have not ticked the "Focus follows mouse" box :)

... now back to your regularly scheduled riff raff.

I have videoFX viewers in both a dxnothing and a non dxnothing window.

You'll notice that I mentioned that I click a lot - if you have 4 eve windows in 4 different monitors, you can move your mouse over that eve client, and then click once and it will activate a module. Go ahead and try it right now if you want.

With isboxer, if that "swap focus" is NOT checked, you have to click once to focus the window, then click a SECOND time to activate a module. I'm only trying to make my experience as close to vanilla as possible. ;)

We had this discussion iirc several months ago when I was building my setup.

[MiRai]

Even if you want to argue that it's not for arguments sake - vanilla players cannot do the same thing no matter what.
Unless of course they're using multiple computers where multiple windows can stay in focus, and you can control both with the same keyboard by moving just your mouse between the computers.


It's been well established for a very long time (see: Bacon back in 2007 or something, along with many others) that using a program that specifically gives you the ability to do something impossible to do as a player in the vanilla game is a big "NOAP."
If it's so well established and such a big "NOAP" (as you put it), then how come it has only become a concern 8 years later? CCP had stated many, many times in those 8 years that ISBoxer was allowed, but if it was doing things that fell into a category as extreme as the "NOAP" category (I have to assume that because it's in quotes, capitalized, and spelled incorrectly that it must be an extreme category) then why did it take almost a decade for them to get around to actioning people for using it?


Isboxer entirely aside, throwing commands out to various clients without having to swap windows/window focus is entirely against the EULA for that reason.
You have nothing to back that statement up with. Please show me the excerpt from CCP's EULA which states what you claim, and I'll ask that you not twist some general statement into your own statement for your convenience. You are very adamant that you're correct, so we're going to need some hard evidence and not your interpretation of a general statement from within the EULA.


I'm happy to casually debate in a friendly manner, but the evidence speaks for itself
And what evidence is that? The only thing I see is you just spouting words and claiming they're facts because you believe them to be so. You've convinced yourself that you've figured it out even though you don't actually have anything beyond your own speculation and assumptions to back up anything that you claim in your last post.

It's a fact that CCP has not given you, or any of us, any information on what they're "logging," or even looking for, so for you to claim that you know otherwise is complete ignorance.


I'm not banned, despite CCP having an EXTREMELY close look at my actions and accounts, while everyone who we know for a FACT has been petitioned that uses round robin/rollover - has been banned.
That is untrue, as well.

Everything you've said so far, and every claim you seem to be making is based off of the incredibly small sample size which is this forum, and this forum alone, since not a single player up to this point has posted on the ISBoxer forum claiming to have been banned. So looking at the few threads from this forum, there must be less than 20 (maybe 30) people who have actively participated in these discussions... and this is your sample size for a game with a very large multiboxing playerbase?

If the evidence speaks for itself, then show it to us and let it speak because during this dark time, EVE multiboxers need factual evidence more than ever. What they don't need are your assumptions, or opinions, which you're trying to pass off as fact, and there is a very large difference between saying, "I have factual evidence," and, "This is what I believe." If you have facts that you can provide links to, then I ask that you present the information, for you cannot cite yourself and expect others to believe what you're saying -- This isn't religion, or politics, this is a multiboxing forum where we value actual facts.

[brammator]

"Using overlays or other methods to alter how the game is played is against the rules and policies and we cannot sanction any such activity.

We will now close this here ticket as resolved."

[LordsServant]

Unless of course they're using multiple computers where multiple windows can stay in focus, and you can control both with the same keyboard by moving just your mouse between the computers.


Just like you can move your mouse between windows with a certain isboxer setup that's legal? ;)

TY for proving my point.




If it's so well established and such a big "NOAP" (as you put it), then how come it has only become a concern 8 years later? CCP had stated many, many times in those 8 years that ISBoxer was allowed, but if it was doing things that fell into a category as extreme as the "NOAP" category (I have to assume that because it's in quotes, capitalized, and spelled incorrectly that it must be an extreme category) then why did it take almost a decade for them to get around to actioning people for using it?



CCP has banned all sorts of stuff in between, from macros, to the very thing I pointed out in my example - Bacon.

I don't know why CCP took as long as they did to ban these features of isboxer, but they have - as they should. Your point here has absolutely nothing to do with the relevant discussion.




You have nothing to back that statement up with. Please show me the excerpt from CCP's EULA which states what you claim, and I'll ask that you not twist some general statement into your own statement for your convenience. You are very adamant that you're correct, so we're going to need some hard evidence and not your interpretation of a general statement from within the EULA.



I pointed out Bacon specifically. You seem to have issues with reading things when posted. Claiming "nothing" when I specifically cite a source is a very bad way of going about a debate. Re-read above if you need to. Arguing that it took CCP a while to notice one particular thing while they banned all sorts of other stuff (again, lemme list the example of Bacon) does not constitute me not backing a statement up, nor does it have anything to do with the discussion at present.

Don't strawman (or w/e other :shenanigans: - I can't be bothered to debate over THAT) in this discussion please, it doesn't speak well of you.




And what evidence is that? The only thing I see is you just spouting words and claiming they're facts because you believe them to be so. You've convinced yourself that you've figured it out even though you don't actually have anything beyond your own speculation and assumptions to back up anything that you claim in your last post.


Read above, this isn't worth responding to beyond these words.



It's a fact that CCP has not given you, or any of us, any information on what they're "logging," or even looking for, so for you to claim that you know otherwise is complete ignorance.


Well, no. They gave us all the same thing - you're the one trying to argue that something which is clearly 2 actions is magically one. Re-read things again if you need to understand, or re-read what I've already posted if you'd like someone to lay it out to you.




That is untrue, as well.

Everything you've said so far, and every claim you seem to be making is based off of the incredibly small sample size which is this forum, and this forum alone, since not a single player up to this point has posted on the ISBoxer forum claiming to have been banned. So looking at the few threads from this forum, there must be less than 20 (maybe 30) people who have actively participated in these discussions... and this is your sample size for a game with a very large multiboxing playerbase?

If the evidence speaks for itself, then show it to us and let it speak because during this dark time, EVE multiboxers need factual evidence more than ever. What they don't need are your assumptions, or opinions, which you're trying to pass off as fact, and there is a very large difference between saying, "I have factual evidence," and, "This is what I believe." If you have facts that you can provide links to, then I ask that you present the information, for you cannot cite yourself and expect others to believe what you're saying -- This isn't religion, or politics, this is a multiboxing forum where we value actual facts.

I'm not sure if this is your first time "friendly" debating, but usually you actually provide your own evidence to back up statements, rather than trying for the "never mind me, you're wrong BECAUSE I SAY SO."

Your response had absolutely nothing in the way of evidence to back up your points, beyond validating my original point in your very first response. Let's not sensationalize things, and instead use (very simple) logic to reason here.

Provide me evidence that disproves any of what I said and/or my evidence, and then you may attempt to make a statement of this substance again. You can't claim that anything I've said is wrong while having absolutely zero evidence or backing logic to what you're saying.

[thedevilyouknow]

No. It sounds like you're using DxNothing and putting your Video FX Viewers in that, right? You have to click to first focus the DxNothing window because in your Window Layout you have not ticked the "Focus follows mouse" box :)

... now back to your regularly scheduled riff raff.

Riff raffing away o7

Thanks for the DX and VFX help lax, i havent opened isboxer and eve together for a while now, will look into it

Going to stick my head into the cockfight

It has gone way past the merits of isboxer, but i think what Lord is trying to say is the act of swapping focus is also construed as an action, as it is not something we are able to do without the use of isboxer

I.e. there is no ingame keybind to send commands to other clients

So if i was to focus on client X, and press f1,f2,f3, and have each of those keys, send f1 - to clients 1, client 2, client 3...etc, while i am focused on window X, this is the order of events

Press F1 > focus to client 1 (since otherwise you cannot send clients there) > send f1 to client 1 > Have client X as the focus without technically swapping positions

[mbox_bob]

Just like you can move your mouse between windows with a certain isboxer setup that's legal? ;)


Umm it's built into Windows......

Control Panel->Ease of Access->Change How Your Mouse Works->Activate a window by hovering over it with the mouse



Have client X as the focus without technically swapping positions

Actually you can do this in Windows too with a couple of registry settings. It is Focus Follows Mouse (like the activate a window by hovering), but without bringing the window to the front.

You need to set the bitmask for Active Window Tracking and Active Window Tracking Z Order as detailed here https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc957204.aspx
If you want to speed up the Active Window Tracking to be faster, you can set the ActiveWndTrkTimeout https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc957203.aspx

You end up with the ability to have a window receive input without it being the "active" or topmost window as per the usual setup in Windows.

This would allow you to arrange your windows in such a way that you could simply roll your mouse around over the windows pressing the F1 key, all without changing the layout. Not quite as fancy as Video FX, but it's pretty damn close, and if you have 6 screens and 6 clients (or just a 4K screen) you could be quite effective with nothing but Windows and EVE, and be much faster than an ALT+TABer.


Also, I recommend you press ALT+ESC rather than ALT+TAB, as it will cycle through Windows in the order they were opened, whereas ALT+TAB uses a MRU order. Cycling through in a known order is much more useful than in the MRU order

[thedevilyouknow]

Umm it's built into Windows......

Control Panel->Ease of Access->Change How Your Mouse Works->Activate a window by hovering over it with the mouse



Actually you can do this in Windows too with a couple of registry settings. It is Focus Follows Mouse (like the activate a window by hovering), but without bringing the window to the front.

You need to set the bitmask for Active Window Tracking and Active Window Tracking Z Order as detailed here https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc957204.aspx
If you want to speed up the Active Window Tracking to be faster, you can set the ActiveWndTrkTimeout https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc957203.aspx

You end up with the ability to have a window receive input without it being the "active" or topmost window as per the usual setup in Windows.

This would allow you to arrange your windows in such a way that you could simply roll your mouse around over the windows pressing the F1 key, all without changing the layout. Not quite as fancy as Video FX, but it's pretty damn close, and if you have 6 screens and 6 clients (or just a 4K screen) you could be quite effective with nothing but Windows and EVE, and be much faster than an ALT+TABer.


Also, I recommend you press ALT+ESC rather than ALT+TAB, as it will cycle through Windows in the order they were opened, whereas ALT+TAB uses a MRU order. Cycling through in a known order is much more useful than in the MRU order


That is quite cool

The only thing i can imagine ccp doing is labeling windows as a third party program :D

[MiRai]

Just like you can move your mouse between windows with a certain isboxer setup that's legal? ;)

TY for proving my point.
As it's been pointed out, the functionality is built into Windows (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/51980-The-Banned-thread?p=397099&viewfull=1#post397099), so any vanilla player can use this feature if they wish.

But other than that, it would seem you don't have any proof. Saying "see: Bacon back in 2007 or something, along with many others" is on par with saying "Google it," and from the sound of it ("or something" and "along with many others"), it would seem like you don't even know what I'm supposed to be Googling. When you make the original claim the burden of proof falls upon you, and it doesn't fall upon anyone else to disprove something which cannot be proved in the first place -- I don't understand how you don't understand this concept. How can there be a debate of anything (which is a complete waste of time anyway since no one here has the real information) when you haven't brought anything to the table except your own speculation? You say that swapping windows is interpreted by CCP as an action, and I say it isn't, so I'm asking you to prove it.

I never said you were wrong, but I said you have no proof and you still haven't provided any, so I'll make this easy...

Please provide proof of your claim(s), other than your own belief, that CCP is interpreting what you consider to be a window focus action as a second action being sent to a game client, and then actioning players based upon that.

[thedevilyouknow]

I don't know if you noticed...since its been said a few times...but CCP is not really abiding by the 1 action rule anymore....

[Lax]

That is quite cool

The only thing i can imagine ccp doing is labeling windows as a third party program :D
"Third party program" only means "made by a third party", which in this case is to say, not CCP. So yes, Windows is quite literally a third party program and nobody should argue otherwise. ;)

[LordsServant]

As it's been pointed out, the functionality is built into Windows (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/51980-The-Banned-thread?p=397099&viewfull=1#post397099), so any vanilla player can use this feature if they wish.


Yes, any player can move their mouse. JUST. LIKE. IN. LEGAL (NOT illegal, LEGAL). ISBOXER. SETUPS. This has been established for the third time now in just the last few responses?

I'm really not one for insulting people, but how thick do you have to be to not get that moving your mouse to swap window focus is an action?

F1 --> Move Mouse --> F1.

Not F1 --> F1. This is a VERY simple concept.

You have now acknowledged my point for the second time.




But other than that, it would seem you don't have any proof. Saying "see: Bacon back in 2007 or something, along with many others" is on par with saying "Google it," and from the sound of it ("or something" and "along with many others"), it would seem like you don't even know what I'm supposed to be Googling. When you make the original claim the burden of proof falls upon you, and it doesn't fall upon anyone else to disprove something which cannot be proved in the first place -- I don't understand how you don't understand this concept. How can there be a debate of anything (which is a complete waste of time anyway since no one here has the real information) when you haven't brought anything to the table except your own speculation? You say that swapping windows is interpreted by CCP as an action, and I say it isn't, so I'm asking you to prove it.



http://bit.ly/1zOuGmh

http://bit.ly/1zOuQdh

http://bit.ly/1zOuyTL

http://bit.ly/1BKNrN8

http://bit.ly/1BKNE2O

http://bit.ly/1BKNHM5

http://bit.ly/1BKO6xX

Literally just woke up and I think of all of those off the top of my head. Click any one, and even if you have a noscript or w/e and that doesn't automatically open the link for you, any of the top 5 or simply reading the results should be quite simple to look through.

Also, if you're brave enough or if there's an FHC link on there, that might be rather enlightening as well. I was in the alliance(s) in question during several of the monkeysphere / python injection / broken api things, and also was in certain command channels where I directly witnessed russians talking about, and using some "binary thing" to gain entrance to POS forcefields. I don't think anyone was ever banned from that, and Raiden. (the alliance I was in) never used it ourselves; White Noise (our close RusRus allies) were the ones doing it.




I never said you were wrong, but I said you have no proof and you still haven't provided any, so I'll make this easy...



See above, now provide your own proof or stop wasting my/everyone's time with crazy conspiracy theories.




Please provide proof of your claim(s), other than your own belief, that CCP is interpreting what you consider to be a window focus action as a second action being sent to a game client, and then actioning players based upon that.

We've gone over (several times now) how swapping window focus is absolutely a thing. People have banned for breaking the 1 input 1 output rule several times.

Pretty damn simple - unless YOU can provide evidence otherwise. Go find some.

[LordsServant]

Umm it's built into Windows......

Control Panel->Ease of Access->Change How Your Mouse Works->Activate a window by hovering over it with the mouse



Actually you can do this in Windows too with a couple of registry settings. It is Focus Follows Mouse (like the activate a window by hovering), but without bringing the window to the front.

You need to set the bitmask for Active Window Tracking and Active Window Tracking Z Order as detailed here https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc957204.aspx
If you want to speed up the Active Window Tracking to be faster, you can set the ActiveWndTrkTimeout https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc957203.aspx

You end up with the ability to have a window receive input without it being the "active" or topmost window as per the usual setup in Windows.

This would allow you to arrange your windows in such a way that you could simply roll your mouse around over the windows pressing the F1 key, all without changing the layout. Not quite as fancy as Video FX, but it's pretty damn close, and if you have 6 screens and 6 clients (or just a 4K screen) you could be quite effective with nothing but Windows and EVE, and be much faster than an ALT+TABer.


Also, I recommend you press ALT+ESC rather than ALT+TAB, as it will cycle through Windows in the order they were opened, whereas ALT+TAB uses a MRU order. Cycling through in a known order is much more useful than in the MRU order

Yes, and I was saying this is perfectly legal for that reason. My legal isboxer setup works just like this.

You quoted me as saying specifically that it is legal.

That wasn't sarcasm. What is illegal is sending button presses/actions to OTHER windows without first swapping window focus - such as moving your mouse.

F1 (to eve client #1) --> Mouse Mouse to swap window focus --> F1 (to eve client #2).

Versus F1 (to eve client #1) --> F1 (to eve client #2).

There is zero mouse movement or anything at all to swap window focus. Whether you're running 2 eve clients on 1 computer, or 1 eve client each on 2 computers, you need to somehow swap focus between the two if you're using the same keyboard.

You are welcome to setup 2 different keyboards and hit f1 with one hand each on different computers as well.

Mirai is just being silly at this point, as is anyone who is trying to debate this simple concept. :)

[Justname]

I'm really not one for insulting people, but how thick do you have to be to not get that moving your mouse to swap window focus is an action?

Of course no one is arguing with you that it is an action. It is however not a GAME action, it is an OS action. CCP should not care about how many windows you mouse over, or hotspots, or elements, or how many times you got up to go to the loo, all they should care about is the action you do that generates actions inside their game.

[MiRai]

See above, now provide your own proof or stop wasting my/everyone's time with crazy conspiracy theories.
I'm sorry, but Google results do not release you from the burden or providing proof for your claim of focusing windows to be an in-game action.


We've gone over (several times now) how swapping window focus is absolutely a thing. People have banned for breaking the 1 input 1 output rule several times.

Pretty damn simple - unless YOU can provide evidence otherwise. Go find some.
I made this for you based off of a comic that I like:

1415

[pinotnoir]

I'm sorry, but Google results do not release you from the burden or providing proof for your claim of focusing windows to be an in-game action.


I made this for you based off of a comic that I like:

1415

That comic reminds me of the burden of proof theist have on the claim a god exist.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I'm wondering how bots/hacks relate to window focus swapping through mouse movement. Maybe I'm just thick.

[shadowandlight]

I'm wondering how bots/hacks relate to window focus swapping through mouse movement. Maybe I'm just thick.

stop being good at multiboxing, cause now its considered cheating and they will treat you like you a botter or hacking

[bugme143]

That comic reminds me of the burden of proof theist have on the claim a god exist.
That's where it came from

[LordsServant]

I'm wondering how bots/hacks relate to window focus swapping through mouse movement. Maybe I'm just thick.

That's the point - they don't.

If you can move your mouse then you're 100% fine.

If you swap window focus thru :magic of isboxer: then it's NOT ok.

Only one thick here is Mirai, and he's made it abundantly clear he can't debate or back any of what he says up. All he's good for is comic (pun intended) relief. ;)

[bugme143]

Lords, if CCP is starting to consider OS commands as means of accelerating gameplay, I'm not sure if I want to keep playing this game.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

That's the point - they don't.

If you can move your mouse then you're 100% fine.

If you swap window focus thru :magic of isboxer: then it's NOT ok.

Only one thick here is Mirai, and he's made it abundantly clear he can't debate or back any of what he says up. All he's good for is comic (pun intended) relief. ;)Here's the thing: "magic of ISBoxer" has lots of different meanings. Let's take your Round Robin example.

Option 1: Internal Round Robin

* Press F1 (1) -> sends key to current window
* Press F1 (2) -> sends key to next window in that character set

Option 2: Multi-Step Round Robin variant 1

Press F1 (1):
* sends key to current window
* Changes the title of the game window
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window
* Switches focus to the next client
Press F1 (2):
* Repeat all actions from above

Option 3: Multi-Step Round Robin variant 2:

Press F1 (1):
* sends key to current window
* Changes the title of the game window
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window
Press F1 (2):
* Switches focus to the next client
Press F1 (3):
* sends key to current window
* Changes the title of the game window
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window

Option 4: Manual Round Robin

Press F1 (1):
* sends key to current window
* Changes the title of the game window
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window
Press ALT+ESC (2):
* switches focus to the next client
Press F1 (3):
* sends key to current window
* Changes the title of the game window
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window

Just so we're on the same page and stuff, could you tell us how many "actions" by your thinking each of the above encompass?

[shadowandlight]

I think the ones paying attention can all agree on is the GMs have been told "If they are playing too effectively ban them"

Maybe there is a command pee second ruling, maybe it's all up to the GM to decide, maybe Team Security had some abstract baseline of what is too effective.

Regardless they won't talk to us and it makes me extremely uncomfortable doing anything multiboxing.

[LordsServant]

Key:

* = [While this is an action, if done by the ingame vanilla client, it is ok by CCP. Example - press autopilot, your ship flies to jita, doing many actions. This may also be ok if said action is occurring in or out of the game client, but has absolutely zero bearing on your ability to play the game or do things in the game.

OK --> Turns on your spotify music without having to tab out of the game.
NOT OK --> Swaps focus to another window as a non-uniquely paired action following the above guidance (ie you did something else before the original button press, then had this action occur - such as swapping window focus to press f1 again).]


Here's the thing: "magic of ISBoxer" has lots of different meanings. Let's take your Round Robin example.

Option 1: Internal Round Robin

* Press F1 (1) -> sends key to current window ACTION
????? Missing ACTION to get to next window
* Press F1 (2) -> sends key to next window in that character set ACTION

Option 2: Multi-Step Round Robin variant 1

Press F1 (1):
* sends key to current window ACTION
* Changes the title of the game window ACTION (*)
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key ACTION (*)
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer ACTION
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION
* Switches focus to the next client ACTION
Press F1 (2):
* Repeat all actions from above ACTIONS

Option 3: Multi-Step Round Robin variant 2:

Press F1 (1):
* sends key to current window ACTION
* Changes the title of the game window ACTION (*)
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key ACTION (*)
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer ACTION
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION
Press F1 (2):
* Switches focus to the next client ACTION
Press F1 (3):
* sends key to current window ACTION
* Changes the title of the game window ACTION(*)
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key ACTION(*)
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer ACTION
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION

Option 4: Manual Round Robin

Press F1 (1):
* sends key to current window ACTION
* sends key to current window ACTION (with no input this is illegal as it is duplicating input)
* Changes the title of the game window ACTION (*)
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key ACTION (*)
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer ACTION
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION
Press ALT+ESC (2):
* switches focus to the next client ACTION
Press F1 (3):
* sends key to current window ACTION
* sends key to current window ACTION (with no input this is illegal as it is duplicating input)
* Changes the title of the game window ACTION (*)
* Pops up a dialog letting you know you pressed the key ACTION (*)
* Moves the current character out of the "not firing" ATG to the "firing" ATG in ISBoxer ACTION
* Enables a VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION
* Disables another VideoFX viewer in the dxNothing window ACTION

Just so we're on the same page and stuff, could you tell us how many "actions" by your thinking each of the above encompass?

You can do whatever you want, just as long as you aren't having greater than 1 legal actions occur per 1 input.

Super simple.

One input, one action.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Gah...option 4 had copy-pasta dupes on the second lines. :/

[thedevilyouknow]

One input, one action.

OH MY GOD HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS THMETHOEHTIJOTEHJTEIGUOD HDJTIH

Seriously, it is no longer about one input one action anymore

If using any other set up results in same or similar unfair advantages then those patterns of play are clearly not safe to employ and players risk getting banned for it. The end result is an unfair advantage over other users playing the game with the EVE Online client as it is shipped and action will be taken in such cases.

However for your crusade against MiRai...who as far as i'm aware does not even play eve (??) yes you are correct as far as i can tell from this shmear of an argument


@Shadow, yes, if you're too good you may eventually get banned
I don't know about commands per second though, perhaps it has something to do with how many commands you give out across however many clients and having it scale as such

But commands per second seems too trivial

[Khatovar]

Let's reign in the speculation and semantics. These arguments aren't productive and I'm about to call it a dead horse if there isn't some verifiable information presented. No one here has anything to do with EvE's policies - if you want to campaign that, you should take it to an official EvE forum.

[LordsServant]

OH MY GOD HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS THMETHOEHTIJOTEHJTEIGUOD HDJTIH

Seriously, it is no longer about one input one action anymore


Well yes, yes it is. This is me pointing out that that's what it is.


If using any other set up results in same or similar unfair advantages then those patterns of play are clearly not safe to employ and players risk getting banned for it. The end result is an unfair advantage over other users playing the game with the EVE Online client as it is shipped and action will be taken in such cases.

However for your crusade against MiRai...who as far as i'm aware does not even play eve (??) yes you are correct as far as i can tell from this shmear of an argument


@Shadow, yes, if you're too good you may eventually get banned
I don't know about commands per second though, perhaps it has something to do with how many commands you give out across however many clients and having it scale as such

But commands per second seems too trivial

I don't think Mirai plays eve anymore, but he used to, if my memory is correct (everyone but me having different usernames than their eve names is hella confusing).

I don't mind if he has differing opinions, but when he wants to have a friendly discussion about it, then shittalks, posts comics, and repeatedly says the equivalent of "nuh uh I saw you're wrong so you're wrong," while spouting off about my lack of "evidence" (nevermind me posting whole walls of logic and links when asked nicely) when he hasn't bothered to give me any evidence for his case whatsoever, there isn't much left to discuss.

I highly doubt it's a case of "too good" - it's just people breaking the rules and expecting something otherwise. Avoid trying to toe the line, or "well technically it's legal...."

Unless it's super easy to see that it's legal and you can't think of it being not legal through very clear logic, don't bother trying it. If you do - guaranteed - CCP will interpret it the other, less lenient way and call it like they see it; illegal and ban.

[brammator]

You can do whatever you want, just as long as you aren't having greater than 1 legal actions occur per 1 input.

Super simple.

One input, one action.

Did you see my quote earlier?

[MiRai]

I don't think Mirai plays eve anymore, but he used to, if my memory is correct (everyone but me having different usernames than their eve names is hella confusing).

I don't mind if he has differing opinions, but when he wants to have a friendly discussion about it, then shittalks, posts comics, and repeatedly says the equivalent of "nuh uh I saw you're wrong so you're wrong," while spouting off about my lack of "evidence" (nevermind me posting whole walls of logic and links when asked nicely) when he hasn't bothered to give me any evidence for his case whatsoever, there isn't much left to discuss.

I highly doubt it's a case of "too good" - it's just people breaking the rules and expecting something otherwise. Avoid trying to toe the line, or "well technically it's legal...."

Unless it's super easy to see that it's legal and you can't think of it being not legal through very clear logic, don't bother trying it. If you do - guaranteed - CCP will interpret it the other, less lenient way and call it like they see it; illegal and ban.
Lords, the only "claim" I've made is that you have no proof of what you're saying about how CCP supposedly interprets the swapping of game window focus as an in-game action -- This has been the main topic of discussion between us for over a day. Your "walls of logic links" were not only masked as bit.ly links since you knew no one was going to click on a LMGTFY link, but they weren't useful by any means in backing up this one single claim of yours. So, I'll ask again...

Please provide proof of your claim, other than your own belief, that CCP is interpreting what you consider to be a window focus action as a second action being sent to the game client, and then actioning players based upon that.

I'm looking for a single, and official, quote from CCP on this claim of yours since this information would be helpful to all EVE multiboxers. If you had provided it in your "walls of logic links" then it went overlooked since I wasn't about to sift through Google search results, and all I'm asking for is a direct link to an official CCP statement on this claim -- This is a very simple request.

[thedevilyouknow]

Got response from ticket about isboxer in general

It may as well be banned

The input duplication rule was a farce, no matter how you do it, if you have an advantage expect the banhammer

[IronSatan]

link for proof or something other then ISBOXER is banhammered.

[thedevilyouknow]

I hope you do realize that linking the proof I have is illegal

Also I did not say it was banhammered, I said it may as well be

The part after that you can find proof on page 7, since I got the same copy paste response so as far as im concerned its legal for me to recognise it as a legit response

[zenga]

Man now I so want to be a GM just to fuck with people and create controversies.

[kraken1122]

I'd like to be the first to congratulate EVE Protection Agency corporation for their boxed bomber squad (https://xplct.zkillboard.com/kill/44664083/) that killed Corebloodbrother, and that bombed a rupture fleet (https://xplct.zkillboard.com/related/30001162/201502162100/o/%7B%22A%22%3A%5B%2299002422%22%5D%2C%22B%22%3A%5B% 2299003393%22%2C%22498125261%22%2C%2299003214%22%5 D%7D/). I apologize for the bad BR, as I don't know which minor alliance is on which side.


Just wanted to inform you that (Requiem Eternal) and (Spaceship Samurai) + (The Explicit Alliance) is a part off hero collation, and by the way.

-Tin Can Alliance <- not on our site (not blue)
-Rezeda Regnum <- not on our site (not blue)
-Nulli Secunda <- not on our site (not blue)
-Elemental Tide <- not on our site (not blue)
I don't know if there were any arragements between any off these alliances under this battle, but they're not an part off hero/blue to us as far as I know :)

[bugme143]

I tend to ignore null politics so I don't know who's with who. I just tend to shoot anything that isn't Blue or Purple, notable exceptions aside.

[EaTCarbS]

I tend to ignore null politics so I don't know who's with who. I just tend to shoot anything that isn't Blue or Purple, notable exceptions aside.

https://eveskunk.com/s

[bugme143]

https://eveskunk.com/s
:effort:
Much easier to look for non-blues and just F1 :D

[EaTCarbS]

:effort:
Much easier to look for non-blues and just F1 :D

especially when you aren't part of the blue donut. I always ask CFC/N3 people what its like to be surrounded by 3 regions of blue space.

[bugme143]

especially when you aren't part of the blue donut. I always ask CFC/N3 people what its like to be surrounded by 3 regions of blue space.
Er, dunno if you know this but I'm a new goon pet :D
TBH it's lots of fun. We can harass BL and PL, or take a roam to lowsec for fun.

[bugme143]

As CCP wants to ban ISBoxer for 6A2 biolations despite the fact it doesn't violate 6A2, I figured we might as well inform them of another program that violates 6A2; namely, the EVE-O program that is being developed in part by CCP themselves.

http://pastebin.com/EFiykhXZ

[thedevilyouknow]

Is that program any good? May need to swap to it

[Tool of Society]

Umm it's built into Windows......

Control Panel->Ease of Access->Change How Your Mouse Works->Activate a window by hovering over it with the mouse



Actually you can do this in Windows too with a couple of registry settings. It is Focus Follows Mouse (like the activate a window by hovering), but without bringing the window to the front.

You need to set the bitmask for Active Window Tracking and Active Window Tracking Z Order as detailed here https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc957204.aspx
If you want to speed up the Active Window Tracking to be faster, you can set the ActiveWndTrkTimeout https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc957203.aspx

You end up with the ability to have a window receive input without it being the "active" or topmost window as per the usual setup in Windows.

This would allow you to arrange your windows in such a way that you could simply roll your mouse around over the windows pressing the F1 key, all without changing the layout. Not quite as fancy as Video FX, but it's pretty damn close, and if you have 6 screens and 6 clients (or just a 4K screen) you could be quite effective with nothing but Windows and EVE, and be much faster than an ALT+TABer.


Also, I recommend you press ALT+ESC rather than ALT+TAB, as it will cycle through Windows in the order they were opened, whereas ALT+TAB uses a MRU order. Cycling through in a known order is much more useful than in the MRU order

The issue is if you click in teh window it changes focus still so it's not nearly as helpful as I expected :(

Still running BTW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZz_5dI6fgM

today.

[New Horizon]

Anyone still running Incursions with ISBoxer for window management ("next window" and "previous window" hotkeys)? I don't think that CCP sanctions that too.

[bugme143]

Interesting. So CCP's going down the old road of T20 where whatever CCP does is exempt from following the EULA. Forward those mails to internalaffairs@ccpgames.com and mention that ISBoxer doesn't modify a client any more than EVE-O preview does.

[shadowandlight]

Anyone still running Incursions with ISBoxer for window management ("next window" and "previous window" hotkeys)? I don't think that CCP sanctions that too.

If you go over to the Team Security thread, your'll find that most of us are pretty confused as to what is and is not allowed. CCP is doing a great job at talking out both sides of their mouth.

[thedevilyouknow]

Btw shadow, number of actions per second is stupid

But not as stupid as the complete lack of info they're giving us

From what i've read, no VFX

[bugme143]

Oh look. CCP just banned a multiboxer from the forums because they got tired of listening to him. GG CCP, now we know this game isn't worth it anymore (no, not me).

[thedevilyouknow]

Proof? also they have that power don't they?
Also banned from forums, (double checking) or banned accounts?

[bugme143]

Just had an interesting conversation with Steve Ronuken, of Fuzzworks and CSM notoriety:
1440
http://puu.sh/hhFds.png

[shadowandlight]

did you get a petition on using Round-Robin answered?

[thedevilyouknow]

Already have a petition answer for round robin.....


Whether you are using round robin, input broadcasting, rollovers or some other feature of some other third party software - the end result is much the same. I apologize for repeating myself, but this EULA clause is key:
"2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."

[Tool of Society]

SO I sent in some links to the videos of me running and asked if I was fine running incursions that way. I also asked if I could use windows ease of access to setup mouse over focus. I was told that windows 7 is a third party program and that they strongly discourage me from using it. I have no now asked what OS I should be using. I will let you know what the response is.

[shadowandlight]

CCP's Team Security is the gift that keeps on giving, or robbing the store, I can't tell any more!

[Ughmahedhurtz]

SO I sent in some links to the videos of me running and asked if I was fine running incursions that way. I also asked if I could use windows ease of access to setup mouse over focus. I was told that windows 7 is a third party program and that they strongly discourage me from using it. I have no now asked what OS I should be using. I will let you know what the response is.

I thought this appropriate:
1443

[brammator]

SO I sent in some links to the videos of me running

Could you please post those?

[Andrivullar]

So; just did a little checking/registering. CCP has retroactively banned all 35 of my "OLD accounts" who where inactive since sep 2014. [I am also the boxer they banned for talking on their forumns.] Got proof for both. So guys; Its been awhile, and i've done my homework on this; are you aware CCP has been sued once before over power of 2? by a female law student? who won and got settled out of court? [hint; UCC law]. Are you guys ready to give up and just enter in a mass-tort [mass sueing]? Anyways; to the CCP trolling here; Take my personas name[Andrivullar] off your damn monument. Illegal use of intellectual property. As you can plainly see with a quick google, the name belongs to me longer than CCPs been alive. ;)

E1: it has absolutely no ability to add any game time.

[thedevilyouknow]

how dare you run a 3rd party program like a computer OS on your eve client

shame on you

You should run EVE as your computer OS

[Tool of Society]

Could you please post those?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4bZm2-gTwE NMC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZahhEjfAso NCO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZz_5dI6fgM OTA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pYOv7T6bug old NM video post jan 1st OTA. I could do the NM version much quicker now since I've figured out some stuff that would improve the time. I haven't done more NM videos due to concern over a possible mistaken ban.


I've gotten a response saying that windows 8 is perfectly fine with a detailed list of eve requirements to run. So I've gotten a non answer as I wasn't concerned if eve could run on windows 8....

[Andrivullar]

As far as I'm concerned [pain time] EvE is a sunken game. I mean retroactively banning inactive accounts? really? Its sad but man, i'm just ready to sue them. I'm tired of reading the ghettolords with IQs of shovels argue on the real forumns and circle logic. All i know is that CCP has overstepped their legal boundarys enough times a tort-suite could return our money and then some.

[Tool of Society]

I'm still waiting on a response for my second petition. Hoping I got a script response on the first one.

I'm going to attempt to create a video that shows all my screens. Will post when I succeed.

[Krops]

Never been banned. Before and after changes. Don't know why its such an issue to follow their rules. :) We are playing their game.

[moog]

Never been banned. Before and after changes. Don't know why its such an issue to follow their rules. :) We are playing their game.

If only they would publish a full set of rules for their game or enter into discussion about how they are interpreting their own rules!

[Andrivullar]

Never been banned. Before and after changes. Don't know why its such an issue to follow their rules. :) We are playing their game.

Well I got 35 accounts retro-actively banned that havent been active since sep 2014. So you tell me. [AFAIK, all for talking on the forums with a newbro account, cause they got tired of listening]. I've quit eve entirely since then, with only a small interruption due to wanting to check on progress[ what progress, CCP got their head so far up their own ass when it comes out it'll go "pop!" on the way out /eyeroll] I'm still of the opinion those that are in my position who have played for awhile and know the legal going on; still should sue this company[under US/UCC law]. they don't give a damn about honesty or human ingenuity.

Honestly in light of all the changes, i almost want to bot eve now and sell the isk[e1:eh, effort doe], for the irony of it; Complete active at keyboard player [pre 01-01-15] to completely vampiric bot] why should i have any remorse for them when they made me [an active, at keyboard player since i was 13 [2007] Worse than a bot just because i'm "too good". I'll share alittle secret for those who think its about isk faucets; high end trade produces the max end-game income. How do i know? because before my inactives where banned, my main trader had... well, not far from a T.
And I say all this with no fear; they've already banned my inactive main without giving a reason, and those that know me I'm kinda spiteful.

[Khatovar]

Well I got 35 accounts retro-actively banned that havent been active since sep 2014. So you tell me. [AFAIK, all for talking on the forums with a newbro account, cause they got tired of listening]. I've quit eve entirely since then, with only a small interruption due to wanting to check on progress[ what progress, CCP got their head so far up their own ass when it comes out it'll go "pop!" on the way out /eyeroll] I'm still of the opinion those that are in my position who have played for awhile and know the legal going on; still should sue this company[under US/UCC law]. they don't give a damn about honesty or human ingenuity.

Honestly in light of all the changes, i almost want to bot eve now and sell the isk[e1:eh, effort doe], for the irony of it; Complete active at keyboard player [pre 01-01-15] to completely vampiric bot] why should i have any remorse for them when they made me [an active, at keyboard player since i was 13 [2007] Worse than a bot just because i'm "too good". I'll share alittle secret for those who think its about isk faucets; high end trade produces the max end-game income. How do i know? because before my inactives where banned, my main trader had... well, not far from a T.
And I say all this with no fear; they've already banned my inactive main without giving a reason, and those that know me I'm kinda spiteful.

1. If you want to take up a lawsuit, that's your deal, but stop trying to rile people here up with it. 4/5 of your posts have been calls to sue and as far as I'm concerned it is violating the rules of this site (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49138-Dual-Boxing-com-Community-Rules-Read-Before-Posting) as disruption. It also casts a poor light on this community.

2. Do NOT discuss violating the rules of any company's game on this site. Openly discussing botting on this site is a no tolerance rule and you are looking to get yourself banned here, too.

[Tool of Society]

Video of all my screens in an OTA. Systems were lagged to hell due to OBS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ4LByLY5T4


I also have a NMC video to finish which I will hopefully post tomorrow.

[Andrivullar]

1. If you want to take up a lawsuit, that's your deal, but stop trying to rile people here up with it. 4/5 of your posts have been calls to sue and as far as I'm concerned it is violating the rules of this site (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49138-Dual-Boxing-com-Community-Rules-Read-Before-Posting) as disruption. It also casts a poor light on this community.

2. Do NOT discuss violating the rules of any company's game on this site. Openly discussing botting on this site is a no tolerance rule and you are looking to get yourself banned here, too.


Okay; do it then, cause obviously your reading comprehension is lacking. /eyeroll, ANNNNNDDDDD; Don't ever tell me what to discuss or not to discuss. you're not my boss, mother, father, or even brother. And I think the term here is pussy-whipped. Silly wabbit, trix are for kidz.

Also, when/if you decide to wield a banhammer wildly, just delete the entire account i have here mkay? mkay. Genius. ;to spell it out before banhammer gumpy gets around to being like CCP; I'm not the type to be squelched from speaking my mind due to a ban-threat. ESPECIALLY a eve-ban threat. /sarc Reading comprehension is great.

[Lax]

Don't ever tell me what to discuss or not to discuss. you're not my boss, mother, father, or even brother.
Khatovar is a site moderator and you will respect the site moderators, or you can leave. There are rules and we will, in fact, tell you what not to discuss here.

[Tool of Society]

Should I just make my own thread in this forum?

[thedevilyouknow]

I was planning to make one based around new methods of Jewwing, then some time later make one for PVP setups we could still run...if youd want to wait for that? :D

[Tool of Society]

Okay I have NMC and NCO videos waiting,

[MiRai]

Should I just make my own thread in this forum?
If you have something to talk about related to being banned that hasn't already been beaten to death, then feel free to post it in this thread. If you have other topics to talk about then you should create a new thread where it fits since it doesn't make any sense to bury something off-topic in a 20+ page.

[Andrivullar]

Khatovar is a site moderator and you will respect the site moderators, or you can leave. There are rules and we will, in fact, tell you what not to discuss here.

Then feel free to delete my account here buddy, since it doesn't have the option for me to do so. Respect is earned not given.

[MiRai]

Then feel free to delete my account here buddy, since it doesn't have the option for me to do so. Respect is earned not given.
Deleting it would allow you to disappear into thin air without a trace of your existence. I'd rather just ban the account so that we can keep your posts around to look back upon and show as an example of what not to do to earn the respect of others.

Good luck with your lawsuit!

[mbox_bob]

Then feel free to delete my account here buddy, since it doesn't have the option for me to do so. Respect is earned not given.

When you grow up and can afford your own house, have a partner and have kids, and later some little dirt bag comes to date your daughter, and does not bother to respect you, your daughter, your house or your rules, because you have not yet "earned" it, you will change your tune and probably work out for yourself that respect is mostly just given freely out of courtesy, because otherwise we are just all uncivilised monkeys flinging our shit around.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Okay; do it then, cause obviously your reading comprehension is lacking. /eyeroll, ANNNNNDDDDD; Don't ever tell me what to discuss or not to discuss. you're not my boss, mother, father, or even brother. And I think the term here is pussy-whipped. Silly wabbit, trix are for kidz.

Also, when/if you decide to wield a banhammer wildly, just delete the entire account i have here mkay? mkay. Genius. ;to spell it out before banhammer gumpy gets around to being like CCP; I'm not the type to be squelched from speaking my mind due to a ban-threat. ESPECIALLY a eve-ban threat. /sarc Reading comprehension is great.


Then feel free to delete my account here buddy, since it doesn't have the option for me to do so. Respect is earned not given.

Spare us the much-maligned martyr syndrome; the demographics of this forum contraindicate outpourings of sympathy for your ever-so-sad plight. At some point you have to make a decision on whether you're gonna STFU and go make something happen, move on, or sit in your basement and whine about it. What does your character tell you is the most rational next move?

Couldn't help but think of this:
ZtYU87QNjPw

[bugme143]

an example of what not to do to earn the respect of others.
The irony. It burns.

[Khatovar]

The irony. It burns.

Is there something wrong with my English? Did I not just say causing strife among the community is not tolerated?

This thread has been nothing but trouble. It's pretty clear that EvE doesn't want multiboxing and attempting to do so is a huge gamble. At this point it isn't about false positives and there's nothing to track down, therefore this thread no longer serves any purpose other than a jumping point for people to break the community rules.