[WoW] Build 18898 ashran REMOVED FOLLOW! [Archive]

ebony

09-18-2014, 10:24 PM

Wait, you say cities and by that do you mean follow only works in cities? Or just anywhere that isn't Ashran?

the back off ashran where your talking about i would think are classed as a city and follow works there the world pvp zone is on its own server. you phase there. and follow dies on the way in.

it still works in arena just tested it.

in other news.
MR. Ethereal-soul-trader works in ashran now.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49964/ethereal-soul-trader

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20663759/WOD%20BETA/WoWScrnShot_091914_032246.jpg

I WOULD NOT GO OUT AND BUY it AS it was broken at one point in bg's and ashran.

old SS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20663759/WOD%20BETA/WoWScrnShot_081614_004446.jpg

Lyonheart

09-18-2014, 10:46 PM

i knew it..oh well.. i guess i should have waited until closer to release to pay for 5 WoD upgrades

ebony

09-18-2014, 10:49 PM

i knew it..oh well.. i guess i should have waited until closer to release to pay for 5 WoD upgrades

yep we all know it deep down, prepared been there with 20 accounts been a lot of QQ

Mosg2

09-19-2014, 05:36 AM

Well, I canceled all 15 of my accounts and included a note with each one stating that it was due to the removal of autofollow from Ashran. I'm sure it will have next-to-zero impact, but I believe in voting with my wallet.

Vociferate

09-19-2014, 05:47 AM

Man that's disapointing, just as I was gearing up to get back into boxing. :(

zenga

09-19-2014, 06:53 AM

Makes sense to me that if they don't want (or make it hard) multiboxers in BG's that they don't want multiboxers in a central pvp zone either. But one could see this coming from miles away after previous dev statements ('multiboxing is fun for the guy doing it but not for the ones on the receiving end', etc ... ).

But ye, same thing like before: couple guys running around with their own invincible army and eventually it affects all other < 5 boxers.

Fat Tire

09-19-2014, 08:55 AM

Meh, melee is king. Dont need follow for that

If they dont add an afk/kick it will end up being a cluster fuck anyways, with or without 10-25+ boxers

Lax

09-19-2014, 09:49 AM

I'd argue this is more of a concession to bots than anything else.

When they originally removed /follow from battlegrounds they said it was to get rid of bots. Really it only gets rid of shitty, most-obvious bots, and multiboxers. I'm sure they could pretty much care less if multiboxers are in battlegrounds, if it weren't for random complaints and people referring to multiboxed toons as "bots". I don't think they're really that concerned about less obvious bots -- as I said back in 2007 when I was working with Blizzard's Warden (anti-cheat) on a regular basis and knee-deep in the legal BS between Blizzard and Glider, "quite frankly, if a cheater does not appear to be cheating to the other players, then clearly no harm is done to the game". I can't speak for them obviously but I personally met and talked to various members of the Warden/Risk team at Blizzard and they didn't exactly disagree with my statements from the time. (They did, however, say that Prepared running so many accounts would become a problem for multiboxers.)

So instead of spending their time and energy dealing with the actual bot problem, they're taking the route of reducing the number of characters who appear to be cheating to the other players. This is a much easier and less costly solution for them, especially considering that with respect to Warden and detecting bots running on players' PCs, their hands are somewhat tied! (They can't implement scans that are particularly invasive, and bots are pretty good at hiding from them.) One of the only remaining defenses they have is legal, and with bot developers not in the US (say, "for the sake of example", in Germany) the legal team also has their hands somewhat tied.

The practical effect of this is that the more human-looking bots become more effective, and the profits of said bot developers is increased (people have to use those bots instead of the shitty ones) -- and there is the concession to bot developers. Blizzard is, blatantly I would say, choosing these bots over multiboxers.

And I am certain that many people who would otherwise be multiboxing and following the rules, will be botting instead and violating them. In this scenario, that is a win for Blizzard.

They have to rely too much on player reports, and they're effectively reducing those. Meanwhile, they can say they're doing something about the bot problem, they can still show that they are banning people (a la reports), and they can still rake in cash from selling accounts and subscriptions to a pretty sizable population of botters who are often happy to repurchase the game.

Long story short, I don't think that cancelling your multiboxed accounts will affect change on this issue. They will make that money back from botters -- a much larger population than multiboxers. However, we could maybe put together a formal legal complaint in a civil court to argue the issue, and maybe in the process force them to confirm in public records that they are not doing what they claim to be doing against bots.

Vecter

09-19-2014, 10:23 AM

I think at this point cancelling accounts isn't the best course of action. Ask questions and plead our case in a professional manner during this beta phase. If it ends up being a final decision come launch then take those measures.

We need to voice our opinions on twitter, the forums, etc. Let them know in such an environment disabling /follow makes little sense unless of course it is truly pointed at multiboxers and not bots.

Please don't whine, make your case, state the facts and have GOOD discussions about this.

luxlunae

09-19-2014, 10:24 AM

But ye, same thing like before: couple guys running around with their own invincible army and eventually it affects all other < 5 boxers.

Yup :(

ebony

09-19-2014, 10:30 AM

a simple follow bot has no great use here as they would not invite you to a group. and honor would suck as a lot it comes off killing players/npc u have to target
same for the world bossess to get the loot box's you need to do DMG/heal a target hiting to the boss not just be in the zone.

forgot to say the zone "used" to be classed as a battleground where anything you could no do a bg you could not do here this got taken out so but it might just be a bug to to changes and the bg rules will get put back in as mass res works there now. Soultrader is still broken in real bg's.

Xixillia

09-19-2014, 11:30 AM

We need to voice our opinions on twitter, the forums, etc.

I'll chime in if someone starts a post - I'm pretty terrible at expressing myself in a way that makes sense to other people that aren't me.

Vecter

09-19-2014, 12:00 PM

I'll chime in if someone starts a post - I'm pretty terrible at expressing myself in a way that makes sense to other people that aren't me.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14527272635#1

Let's keep it civil, show your support!

Xixillia

09-19-2014, 12:46 PM

Thanks vecter. If you have a beta US account please weigh in. Need all the support we can get I think.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14527272635#1

JohnGabriel

09-19-2014, 01:19 PM

We need to voice our opinions on twitter, the forums, etc. Let them know in such an environment disabling /follow makes little sense unless of course it is truly pointed at multiboxers and not bots.

I dont think anything like this will work, there are very few boxers and what good is 1 supportive forum post followed by hundreds against it?

Lyonheart

09-19-2014, 02:01 PM

Thanks vecter. If you have a beta US account please weigh in. Need all the support we can get I think.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14527272635#1

Grr.. not in beta ( first beta in any MMO i did not get in ) I was going to post. I was going to say the removal of /follow in an open world zone in an upcoming expansion is basically saying " If you play more than one account you can only "effectively" play in the new PvE zones." i would say.. if we cant "effectively" play in Ashan then we are not getting equil treatment and enjoyment for the same dollars per account that solo players get. YES. i understand there are "workarounds" but most of us want to play the game how we play it anywhere else ( PvE ) and should be able to in all the areas of the game we PAY for.

The thing that bums me out is that this zone has a lot to offer someone who does not enjoy arenas, and it sounds like it will have a lot of ways to upgrade your toon. So if i im boxing in PvE but cant effectively box in Ashran..then my progression is limited.. at the very least to a very long time commitment to get the ashran rewards on my whole team.

I would also say that I would understand limits of some sort ( no more than X amounts of accounts at a time in the zone for example )

I paid for 5 WoD upgrades.. so ill be playing.. hell maybe PvE will be so fun i wont miss PvP.. but this bums me out.. i was looking forward to Ashran more than any other feature in WoD ( and boxing it specifically )

Mosg2

09-19-2014, 08:38 PM

I didn't cancel my accounts out of a fit of rage or anything, I canceled them because WoD no longer offers anything fun for me, personally, to do.

I've been looking forward to Ashran since they announced it--A huge zone quasi-dedicated to pvp, with rewards commensurate to arenas/rated BGs and/or raiding. That sounds awesome, and I think there are going to be tons of people playing there. Without follow, I won't be able to enjoy it, and I've never truly loved arenas like other members.

So, adieu to WoW until/unless they re-add /follow in Ashran.

Kayley

09-20-2014, 12:50 AM

Uuuugggghhhhhhh, one of the big reasons why I bought the expansion. How sad.

EaTCarbS

09-20-2014, 01:04 AM

Trying to convince Blizz to add follow into Ashran will work as well when they removed it from BGs. Talk with your wallet, tell Blizzard to eat shit in the most effective way possible.

Andreauk

09-20-2014, 01:18 AM

You can get wod refunded even after using the boost.. they just lock the boosted toon till you pay again.

zenga

09-20-2014, 12:21 PM

Trying to convince Blizz to add follow into Ashran will work as well when they removed it from BGs.

Because multiboxers had reasonable arguments they added /follow back for arena though.

Kruschpakx4

09-20-2014, 05:25 PM

MiRai

09-20-2014, 06:53 PM

I think it was a mistake of multiboxers, especially prepared, to invade the beta with 5+ accounts, as their attitude towards boxers got worse and worse throughout pandaria causing trouble on beta was really dumb.
Out of sight, out of mind -- I couldn't agree more.

ebony

09-20-2014, 08:34 PM

I think it was a mistake of multiboxers, especially prepared, to invade the beta with 5+ accounts, as their attitude towards boxers got worse and worse throughout pandaria causing trouble on beta was really dumb.

Out of sight, out of mind -- I couldn't agree more.

and what it would of been removed a week later hot fixed into the game after you spent money/time leveling

MiRai

09-20-2014, 08:48 PM

and what it would of been removed a week later hot fixed into the game after you spent money/time leveling
None of us will ever know if removing follow from Ashran was on their radar to begin with and we will never know if we would have gotten a chance to play there on live, however it was implemented as a "battleground" from the start with follow enabled. But there's no doubt in my mind that when multiboxers began showing up there during beta -- especially in large numbers -- the future of /follow was quickly put on the list of things that they were going to discuss, and during beta I would imagine that these things are easier to change since all of the developers are knee deep in code right now and they literally push new builds at least once a week.

Kruschpakx4

09-20-2014, 08:52 PM

and what it would of been removed a week later hot fixed into the game after you spent money/time leveling

Well on live we have a few pvp boxers across plenty realms, on beta we had prepared some a couple more boxers on a single server where blizz looks closely on feedback, as well as gm's/devs/holinka playing there. Despite this change been made against bots (that will most likely be their answer), it was still a bad idea to draw much negative attention after they started to rethink their attitude toward boxers. At least it lowers our chances to get some form of love, like allowing follow in bgs/ashran when the accounts are on the same battle net or something like that.

I just don't believe in the bot argument here because ashran is meant to be fun and not a place to grind honor.

Lax

09-21-2014, 08:28 PM

From the Live Chat earlier, Ebony had been on the phone with Blizzard asking about follow and getting a refund on WoD. At first, this

[12:00:07] <Ebony> he said ya more then likey your going to get banned if you find a work around. its been put in to be removed from the more of less the start

A short time later..

[12:33:26] <Ebony> they just phoned me back
[12:34:35] <Ebony> said there not made there mind up on follow in ashran and are still "thinking about"

Talk about mixed signals. I'm not holding my breath but they "could" still be "thinking about it"

MiRai

09-21-2014, 08:39 PM

Talk about mixed signals. I'm not holding my breath but they "could" still be "thinking about it"
We gotta convince Holinka of two things:

1) That he will want to encounter multiboxers in Ashran
2) That he will want multiboxers on his team in Ashran

Only then will /follow be reinstated. ;)

Mosg2

09-22-2014, 01:44 AM

In the meantime, leveling up 10x characters in RIFT. It's the only place for multiboxers to find open world pvp in any game on the market.

ebony

09-22-2014, 01:47 AM

From the Live Chat earlier, Ebony had been on the phone with Blizzard asking about follow and getting a refund on WoD. At first, this

A short time later..

Talk about mixed signals. I'm not holding my breath but they "could" still be "thinking about it"

they was not the same person that phoned back.

just a lot of mixed feelings it seems.

1st i was saying it seems more at boxers so there for if i find ways round follow could i get banned and they said yes. if the devs took follow out and your finding a way even with in game tools that be even using ingame tools (more then likey they just hotfix what we doing)

but the 2nd called they said unless Holinka says other wides it still stands as "thinking about it" what he posted they said as well the beta is still a few weeks behind what Q&A are testing (whatever that meens) and they could of just been playing with stuff. does not meen that its in game or will be so ill still do this refund for you and they needed something from me as they massed up what accounts i wonted refunding.

anyway i got refund pending on all my accounts.

but what does CS know anyway.

smalltanker

09-22-2014, 04:12 AM

Andreauk

09-22-2014, 08:08 AM

I refunded 4 of 5 accounts some time ago .. just go into account management and make a ticket for a refund.. make sure to put all of the order numbers in the box at once that you want refunds on. I didn't even give a reason, they gave my money back no problem.

ebony

09-22-2014, 08:11 AM

So as someone who picked up the pre-order... how do we go about getting a refund. I won't lie, I was looking forward to some world PVP. Was flying through Wintergrasp this weekend and /follow worked there as I knocked out all of the raid instance and picked up some small honor doing those bosses in the Vault. Ashran and the quest/PVP there was going to be our best way to do some gearing up for PVP in WoD.

I only 5 box but still, it takes time to grind points for and maintain a competitive set of gear.

open a webchat/or call back ask for a fefund on your perolder they will lock the level 90 boasted toon

this is the email i got them

his is the latest response from Customer Support:
Good evening,

I have now registered a refund request for an amount of 4 x 34.99 € GBP and we are proceeding with the necessary checks and verifications.

When the refund is approved your license will revert to the previous level or a starter edition if no license is left.

As previously mentioned remember that refunding a purchase is an exception, and something we can only assist with once every six months.

Please note that the estimated time to process a refund internally varies from 7 - 14 days

See you .

my main account is still paid for.

Andreauk

09-22-2014, 10:41 AM

I don't like boxing in pvp.. that's my personal opinion. How many people really want boxers in pvp? I think more would like them kept out of the new zone rather than in.

MiRai

09-22-2014, 11:44 AM

In the meantime, leveling up 10x characters in RIFT. It's the only place for multiboxers to find open world pvp in any game on the market.
I think there are many that do large-scale world PvP in WoW that would beg to differ.

JohnGabriel

09-22-2014, 12:46 PM

In the meantime, leveling up 10x characters in RIFT. It's the only place for multiboxers to find open world pvp in any game on the market.

You can find it, but its just geared players teleporting from shard to shard ganking unsuspecting questers.

EaTCarbS

09-22-2014, 05:23 PM

In the meantime, leveling up 10x characters in RIFT. It's the only place for multiboxers to find open world pvp in any game on the market.

um, technically that would be EVE :p

Vociferate

09-22-2014, 05:42 PM

Because multiboxers had reasonable arguments they added /follow back for arena though.

So wait, /follow does work in arenas? (I haven't been boxing since Wrath.)

Mosg2

09-22-2014, 06:58 PM

@Mirai
I've been running 15 toons on Sargeras Horde on the Timeless Isle, and I love it. Unfortunately, in WoD I think most of the action will be in Ashran. So, doable now but I think wpvp will be hard to find in a month and change.

edit:
@eatcarbs
Oh, I've played the shit out of Eve :) I think it's just way too hard to find fights. Finding people doing stupid things is easy, but leveraging that when running 20 toons is difficult.

ebony

09-22-2014, 07:31 PM

I don't like boxing in pvp.. that's my personal opinion. How many people really want boxers in pvp? I think more would like them kept out of the new zone rather than in.

not the Point or though it is a pvp zone there is none pvp stuff there. i can see the a lot of quests and even the god dam pvp gear vendors are there. so there saying you can do arena but not buy gear. the Legi quest will more then likely have parts here

So wait, /follow does work in arenas? (I haven't been boxing since Wrath.)

ya i was removed for less then 24 hours. when they said in fact bots don't go arena. I can see this getting removed very very fast into the xpac now they got pug arena matches.

zenga

09-22-2014, 08:45 PM

I can see this getting removed very very fast into the xpac now they got pug arena matches.
can you do premade skirmishes on the beta?

ebony

09-22-2014, 08:57 PM

can you do premade skirmishes on the beta?

yes, but only 2v2 3v3.

in 6.0 this will be added as well.

Mosg2

09-23-2014, 04:01 AM

ebony

09-23-2014, 09:55 AM

Ebony, could we the community get you to check every few days if the Soul Trader continues to work in Ashran? I know the tundra mammoth/two person mount will function fine for moving from spot to spot, but the Trader makes it so much easier to collect your people when dismounted.

ill keep you updated with mr. soul trader, and other toys. but if if was removed for boxers then there is a way you could get banned, and the items removed very fast.

ebony

09-23-2014, 06:28 PM

Build 18922 still no follow

soul trader still works there, brew pup don't and mounts still work.

Vecter

09-23-2014, 06:32 PM

Build 18922 still no follow

soul trader still works there, brew pup don't and mounts still work.

I wouldn't expect them to change /follow after 1 build especially if they are testing for specific results.

ebony

09-24-2014, 09:12 PM

Build 18927 - no follow. soul-trader etc still works there.

just updating.

Mosg2

09-25-2014, 03:33 AM

Thanks Ebony, I really appreciate it.

Kayley

09-25-2014, 10:00 AM

Thank you.

ebony

09-26-2014, 09:31 PM

Build 18935 Still no follow, soul trader etc still working there.

(i know its not going to change but still.)

Mosg2

09-26-2014, 09:34 PM

What do you mean? You don't think they'll remove the soul trader?

Lyonheart

09-27-2014, 12:14 AM

What do you mean? You don't think they'll remove the soul trader?

My guess is that if a lot of multiboxers are seen using the soul trader, or anything like it, they will "fix" it eventually.

ebony

09-27-2014, 12:17 AM

What do you mean? You don't think they'll remove the soul trader?

I don't think they add follow back in.

soul trader was nerver removed because of boxers to be fair. there was a bug you could lag your client out in a bg.

ebony

10-02-2014, 02:06 AM

so after bugging him for weeks i got a replay

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/517519631607537665

@JenniferCally (https://twitter.com/JenniferCally) /follow will remain disabled in Ashran. It didn't take long on beta to see it was going to be a problem.

this is not over botting this is 1000% hate to us.

Andreauk

10-02-2014, 02:35 AM

Good they saw sense on it.. fun for boxers sure.. not so fun for a non boxer in a pvp situation.

ebony

10-02-2014, 03:11 AM

Good they saw sense on it.. fun for boxers sure.. not so fun for a non boxer in a pvp situation.

in big numbers less then five i got hammed it kinda makes you want to add more accounts to stop running from gy every 2m

Vociferate

10-02-2014, 04:37 AM

So /follow is still gone?

ebony

10-02-2014, 05:09 AM

So /follow is still gone?

its not in and its not being added back.

read what holinka said.

Kayley

10-02-2014, 08:15 AM

okeydokey.

What's their (blizzard GMs) stance on you (boxer) getting around the /follow removal via methods in-game, say for instance the soul-trader (if it's still there) and interact with target etc etc. I mean I don't do BGs now but some people do, its all tolerated?

Fat Tire

10-02-2014, 08:55 AM

Nothing stops boxers from still going into ashran with all their characters. There is no report/afk kick functionality, it will be a cluster fuck after the first couple of weeks.

Edit: or you could play melee and everything is golden.

Lyonheart

10-02-2014, 09:35 AM

If they removed /follow because of boxers, and tons of boxers end up using the workarounds.. they might make an official stance against it. I will be playing a melee team for PvP this expansion, lets see what happens.

Vociferate

10-03-2014, 12:00 AM

+1 (2 or 3) to running melee teams. Casters are fun, but too finnicky for me. Hat off to those that have the skills and patience to box casters in PvP.

Mosg2

10-03-2014, 12:49 AM

Melee works fine in combat, but how are you going to group them back up afterwords? Just use IWT on targets to get them to go in the right direction?

ebony

10-03-2014, 12:54 AM

Melee works fine in combat, but how are you going to group them back up afterwords? Just use IWT on targets to get them to go in the right direction?

i just mounted the main char and used that to get them back to main, but now with my "no follow mkIII system" there is no need to do that it feels like follow so well.

Mosg2

10-03-2014, 04:34 AM

Are you going to share? :)

ebony

10-03-2014, 06:53 AM

Are you going to share? :)

i share all my info. with isboxer setup guides.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/51263-BG-follow-MKIII-using-Brew-pup-%28isboxer-setup%29?highlight=follow+mkIII

Mosg2

10-03-2014, 07:14 AM

Ahhh I see. I thought you came up with a different workaround.

The brew pup doesn't work in Ashran though, right?

Fat Tire

10-03-2014, 08:35 AM

Really 3 is the max without worrying about follow or using a "pet" work around in bgs & ashran as melee, any more than 3 and it becomes a pita. 3 person mount becomes the shuttle service to fights in those areas without follow. In reality its only two instances without follow, its not a big deal once you get used to it.

ebony

10-03-2014, 08:40 PM

Ahhh I see. I thought you came up with a different workaround.

The brew pup doesn't work in Ashran though, right?

i would say that it was a "bug" as you can not summon it anywhere in the game much (unless this is a change)

Really 3 is the max without worrying about follow or using a "pet" work around in bgs & ashran as melee, any more than 3 and it becomes a pita. 3 person mount becomes the shuttle service to fights in those areas without follow. In reality its only two instances without follow, its not a big deal once you get used to it.

And don't forget druids can follow each over with there mount forum.

Mosg2

10-03-2014, 09:38 PM

I tested the druid travel form a bit yesterday and it looks really promising. Even if someone is already mounted on the druid, when you IWT with them you run to them. You can travel form in combat. Hitting an ability that requires you to be in stance while in travel form gives an error, so you don't have to worry about popping out while spamming your DPS button as you reposition yourself for a follow.

Edit:
No downside. You can try and mount someone who isn't in your group. You still IWT to them. Totally baller.

Kruschpakx4

10-04-2014, 05:45 AM

nice catch, druid also has many great supportive abilities for any 4 caster or melee team, that looks very promising

ebony

10-04-2014, 09:14 AM

nice catch, druid also has many great supportive abilities for any 4 caster or melee team, that looks very promising

i love the changes to drilds and they have a lot of ins casts. what i been playing on beta.

if i come back to wow this will be main group (who am i kidding "IF")

EaTCarbS

10-04-2014, 12:51 PM

everybody starts using druids for follow, how long till blizzard nerfs that? I'ts extremely evident blizzard doesn't want multiboxing in pvp.

JohnGabriel

10-04-2014, 01:41 PM

They could just remove IWT as well as follow in battlegrounds.

Fat Tire

10-04-2014, 02:22 PM

They could just remove IWT as well as follow in battlegrounds.

I would be ok with that

Hohoz

10-04-2014, 02:47 PM

As a multiboxer .... yes some will tell me where to go but :

I feel it shouldn't even be allowed in PvP period , it gives you a edge no matter how you look at it.I played Daoc for many years and I can tell you when you run a proper assist train you're godly in many ways.And that's what Isboxer does is just that , you target,assist and fire off abilities faster then anyone yes I know if you hit a proper set up group blah blah but most of the time that is rare.And if you hit a zerg it's just part of the game

I feel if multiboxers aren't careful more and more games with start banning it because of this especially in PvP games.I think pve is one thing it really effects no ones game play unless you're killing off quest mobs like crazy or something ..... but I feel gaming companies are looking more into this , this is all just a opinion but I am kinda stating what I am seeing transpire over time now.

I would say the 1% of multiboxers in the gaming would cause more companies resources checking into false botting/afking reports then any other thing in a game period.

pinotnoir

10-04-2014, 03:16 PM

I'm so glad I quit WOW and moved to EVE Online.

ebony

10-04-2014, 05:14 PM

They could just remove IWT as well as follow in battlegrounds.

itw does not work like follow so they can not really stop it they do they have to axe it everywhere, to change ctm the same thing.

there best bet would be nuke mounts and pets we use. (that they already done with mr.soultrader in bg's)

the only other thing would be to stop itw/ctm working like it does. but it goes to how deep coded it in the core a lot of bots been using this system for years and nothing happen as of yet.

Mosg2

10-04-2014, 08:19 PM

Well, the "upside" to using the Druid's travel form is that they can't just toggle it on/off like follow on a per zone basis. Because it would take a lot of coding effort to change, they'll have to make a policy statement instead of just trying to neuter what we're capable of doing.

@Hohoz
An assist train of multiboxed toons is better at killing than the same number of solo players who are in voice comms, but certainly not better at surviving. In order to be efficient at multiboxing, we have to simplify many choices so that we're not overwhelmed.

Mosg2

10-04-2014, 11:37 PM

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/517519631607537665

Don't spam, but trying to get a simple yes/no as to whether multiboxing in Ashran violates the ToS.

MadMilitia

10-04-2014, 11:39 PM

The only time multiboxing in PvP works is like Mosg2 stated. You simplify everything and overload as much burst potential as possible to one shot your way to victory. You do that or you put some serious numbers in your favor and do pointless things like hang around vendors and blow up people in green starter gear. Either way its an unsupported way to play the game that feels and is bottom feeding at a premium. It makes little sense.

You'll never be competitive in a thinking match with 2 / 3 / 5 / 10 humans on the other side of the equation either.

I think the rationale for multiboxing PvP in an MMO starts with getting harassed by a couple guys in the world. Then you think man, if I had 2 or 3 more accounts I would have owned those guys. Then next time they see you, they bring a 5 man team. The arms race mentality goes like that.

Once I stopped multiboxing WoW I oddly started to enjoy it more. Yes, I still ran into those griefers out in the world while soloing but I'm no longer inclined to renew any additional subs because it will be a short-lived satisfaction. I got my 9/9 golds done in like 3 days, got my garry achievement and started to gear up a single toon WAY faster. It just feels like I'm doing a lot less screwing around with setup and more socializing / more progress.

As a multiboxer who went back as far as EQ / MQ my days of mutiboxing are almost certainly over. If it wasn't the overly complicated routines needed for WoW it was the fact that I was paying 5 times as much for half the progress most were making on a single toon. It just didn't add up.

PS: I don't think they will ever remove IWT / CTM as it would raise a serious stink regarding accessibility for handicapped people.

ebony

10-05-2014, 12:24 AM

there some replays to the twitter. its sounds really aimed at us now.

Anthony Anderson ‏@_verisimilidude (https://twitter.com/_verisimilidude) 4h4 hours ago (https://twitter.com/_verisimilidude/status/518553924312109056) @holinka (https://twitter.com/holinka) @JenniferCally (https://twitter.com/JenniferCally) Still don't understand why it's a problem--Same thing as a premade group. Are you saying you don't like premades?

Holinka ‏@holinka (https://twitter.com/holinka) 4h3 hours ago (https://twitter.com/holinka/status/518558214007586816) @_verisimilidude (https://twitter.com/_verisimilidude) @JenniferCally (https://twitter.com/JenniferCally) It is not the same thing.

Anthony Anderson ‏@_verisimilidude (https://twitter.com/_verisimilidude) 2h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/_verisimilidude/status/518586961540296704) @holinka (https://twitter.com/holinka) @JenniferCally (https://twitter.com/JenniferCally) How so? Focused DPS via assisting, but less survivability. Is multiboxing a ToS violation in Ashran?

@_verisimilidude (https://twitter.com/_verisimilidude) @JenniferCally (https://twitter.com/JenniferCally) There is a social value added to the game when 15 people get together to play.

so any pvp as a boxer then = going to get into shit am reading it. or am going to make life really fucking hard for you.

Mosg2

10-05-2014, 03:56 AM

I'm Verisimilidude there. I'm gonna' follow this up until we get a definitive answer.

ebony

10-05-2014, 04:07 AM

I'm Verisimilidude there. I'm gonna' follow this up until we get a definitive answer.

ya sad panda for sure. I can not see them saying NO you can not go there at all as the conquest vendors are there. and like i said if because 5/10/100 players killing one player there, what happens if we do it in the normal world. its the same thing. (say timeless island)

Infarct its worse as that's ganking and the player will get a lot less help to take down a boxer, when in ashran they can team up and nuke us like they did in bg's many times.

Vecter

10-05-2014, 06:43 PM

5 boxing isn't an issue. it is the player that brings in 20, 30, 40 that it becomes ridiculous. I would even say 10 boxing gives the boxer an advantage at the start of an encounter with the near instant targeting we have, but as it goes on and larger groups of players take on a boxer we are at a disadvantage. So how do they prevent the massive boxing groups? Get rid of follow to start. Unfortunately that just impacts any size group so we have to come up with other ways to move around. All legitimate ways and I can't see that being taken away without some game altering ramifications for everyone. Of course they could just remove following from any raid group and leave it for party groups. Maybe we can at least steer them that way. It is not all doom and gloom, its just in specific PvP Areas, we still have the whole world to battle it out.

harvan

10-05-2014, 10:47 PM

u guys understand ever since holinka was promoted to be the pvp designer boxers got screwed. its his fault mainly. it all started in mop. he doesnt have the balls to say it so he just ignores us. tiny actually got alot of twitter msgs from him when he made oq. but i dont know much about what was said.

harvan

10-06-2014, 12:03 AM

the cause of multiboxers down fall

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14730503255#1

ebony

10-06-2014, 01:39 AM

the cause of multiboxers down fall

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14730503255#1

lots of hate not helping.

we use workrounds and hope we don`t get banned or the null the items or change the game to stop it working like it does. IF they do ban then fight the ban, as they can not say its because you was in ashran. if they say you was killing a player then all world pvp would = in this ban. using tools to bug the game will be what they could/would use.

Or though i only know one player that got banned from AV using soul trader on ten accounts, to my understaning it was banned from expoloring the limit of 5 players per BG party as i know of players solo that got banned for the 3 days around the same time (solo playing)

i was doing a lot of bg's with my shammys and nerver got banned nothing even was talking to a blizzard gm when i was in a BG with all 5 accounts.

And i know players on my server that put in tickets and reported me for doing it, they did say to me that they talked to a gm about my going to bg's as boxer that is not allowed anymore enjoy the ban. (funny did not read that in the tos i said.) 1 week later i talked to "this" player and they said you was right your not braking any rules. infact we talk a lot now not a bad guy after they get to know you. just so much hate.

Vociferate

10-06-2014, 06:53 AM

"I am not happy about the changes to Ashran and
not allowing /follow. I would like to cancel my WoD preorder.

I can see why that the /follow command does not work in battlegrounds, but Ashran is not only a battleground. It is an essential part of the game that is housing the Conquest vendors, quests, and other parts of the game. If it was an instanced battleground, that was not intergal to the game I would be keeping this account.

But these changes are game breaking as a multiboxer, and it is not the way to fix things.

Suggestions:

- Disable /follow in a raid, and allow it in a party. (In BG areas. eg. Wintergrasp, Tol Borad, etc)
- Relocate essential vendors/quest/NPCs to an area that /follow will work.

Or simply, reinstate /follow in places that are not a battleground.

For shame."

Kayley

10-06-2014, 09:28 AM

ebony

10-06-2014, 10:51 AM

I know it sucks, but clearly I'm missing something. I thought this was just another BG similiar to Wintergrasp -- I HAVE to go here for questing/conquest rewards?

I mostly stay away from expansion stuff and only peak in on a few bits that may influence my money making, clearly I need to read into this more :/
zzzz

its more like a wg before the changes to raid group etc and queing, ashran is no groups crz and kinda does have a que system if needed but not seen it go on beta much.

harvan

10-06-2014, 11:48 AM

lots of hate not helping.

we use workrounds and hope we don`t get banned or the null the items or change the game to stop it working like it does. IF they do ban then fight the ban, as they can not say its because you was in ashran. if they say you was killing a player then all world pvp would = in this ban. using tools to bug the game will be what they could/would use.

Or though i only know one player that got banned from AV using soul trader on ten accounts, to my understaning it was banned from expoloring the limit of 5 players per BG party as i know of players solo that got banned for the 3 days around the same time (solo playing)

i was doing a lot of bg's with my shammys and nerver got banned nothing even was talking to a blizzard gm when i was in a BG with all 5 accounts.

And i know players on my server that put in tickets and reported me for doing it, they did say to me that they talked to a gm about my going to bg's as boxer that is not allowed anymore enjoy the ban. (funny did not read that in the tos i said.) 1 week later i talked to "this" player and they said you was right your not braking any rules. infact we talk a lot now not a bad guy after they get to know you. just so much hate.

im going to tell u know idk why that person got banned but i was using the soul-trager all the time in bgs up until they suddenly removed it and i never got banned. know i use the brew pug and still no ban. and that forum thread no body is looking at the real point holinka is mixing his emotions with work and that is illegal. prepared killed him in ashran on beta and he was like i just killed a f***in dev lol.and i bet we have killed him plenty of times in bgs and wpvp

harvan

10-06-2014, 11:51 AM

Have u guys ever thought about it? all this has happened since holinka started aspvp designer.

Ughmahedhurtz

10-06-2014, 12:50 PM

- Disable /follow in a raid, and allow it in a party.
That's gonna break PVE raids, right?

ebony

10-06-2014, 01:28 PM

im going to tell u know idk why that person got banned but i was using the soul-trager all the time in bgs up until they suddenly removed it and i never got banned. know i use the brew pug and still no ban. and that forum thread no body is looking at the real point holinka is mixing his emotions with work and that is illegal. prepared killed him in ashran on beta and he was like i just killed a f***in dev lol.and i bet we have killed him plenty of times in bgs and wpvp

the soul-trager was nerver removed because off boxers. YouTube/Google what players was doing with it in bg's.

harvan

10-06-2014, 01:34 PM

the soul-trager was nerver removed because off boxers. YouTube/Google what players was doing with it in bg's.

i know it was bc of pple in rbg using the lag thing.

Khatovar

10-06-2014, 01:58 PM

and that forum thread no body is looking at the real point holinka is mixing his emotions with work and that is illegal. prepared killed him in ashran on beta and he was like i just killed a f***in dev lol.and i bet we have killed him plenty of times in bgs and wpvp

People mix their emotions with work every day, there is nothing illegal about that. At most, it's unprofessional.

There's a lot of speculation in your statement. I may disagree with Holinka and think he gets his multiboxing information from trolls, but you're making it sound like he's running around like some clichéd PvP basement-dweller, throwing hissies and declaring new rules like the King of Siam and the rest of Blizzard is just like "Ok, whatever." I very highly doubt that's the case and treating the situation like that by using Holinka and Prepared as the only scapegoats doesn't make it better.

Changes have been made before that had at least a side-eye in our direction, admitted or not, {commas, castrandom, map pinging, BG Queueing, non-participation and win trading rules} so it's not like Holinka showed up and suddenly we went from some golden age where we were sacred cows to Blizzard right to the slaughter on his say-so.

Blizzard's intolerance has grown proportional to multiboxing's sense of entitlement. I know people hate that argument, but there are multiboxers out there who do it to be godmode. They do it to be obnoxious and disruptive, they do it because Blizzard isn't going to do squat about it *waves an 8 year old blue post around like an invincibility shield* and if they do, who cares? Prepared may be the posterchild for anti-boxing sentiment, but you only need two accounts to be "just another example of *** multiboxers."

We aren't caught in the crossfire of some personal grudge match between Holinka and Prepared. We've been throwing straws on the camel's back for as long as people have realized we were there.

Vociferate

10-06-2014, 06:48 PM

That's gonna break PVE raids, right?

I meant in regards to being an instanced PvP area. I'll edit for clarity.

Vociferate

10-06-2014, 06:56 PM

People mix their emotions with work every day, there is nothing illegal about that. At most, it's unprofessional.

There's a lot of speculation in your statement. I may disagree with Holinka and think he gets his multiboxing information from trolls, but you're making it sound like he's running around like some clichéd PvP basement-dweller, throwing hissies and declaring new rules like the King of Siam and the rest of Blizzard is just like "Ok, whatever." I very highly doubt that's the case and treating the situation like that by using Holinka and Prepared as the only scapegoats doesn't make it better.

Changes have been made before that had at least a side-eye in our direction, admitted or not, {commas, castrandom, map pinging, BG Queueing, non-participation and win trading rules} so it's not like Holinka showed up and suddenly we went from some golden age where we were sacred cows to Blizzard right to the slaughter on his say-so.

Snipped for lenght.

I think that was very well said, and I would like to reiterate that point as well, Blizzard does run changes through a gauntlet of sorts before they make it live. Sometimes it's not a very difficult (or thought out one) as in /follow is used by bots...

But at the end of the day, what we do can easily be construed as against the rules. Most of the loud voices on the forums are the people that cannot break 1300 in arenas with a full set of Prideful. They are the ones that feel belittled because they are not winning. They want to be the roflstomping, graveyard camping douchebags. But we take that away from them. Everyone know of you knows, that if we go against another group of equal numbers, we are at the disadvantage.

We need to show that we are good for this game, and doing that will not be throwing out insults on the forums, spreading the flames, and acting with knee jerk responses. As a small community, we need to show that we are not all like the assholes in pug BG's berating new players, and partaking in asshattery.

My $.02

Dranny817

10-09-2014, 01:28 PM

avo

10-10-2014, 04:29 PM

I just wanna say this is a completely moronic change, and hurts only multiboxers. Any bot worth its salt is completely unaffected by /follow being removed in battleground and ashran, because they can programmatically follow someone by just clicking underneath them.

This is a kick in shins to multiboxers, with a steel toed boot.

Meathead

10-10-2014, 09:53 PM

MadMilitia

10-12-2014, 01:06 AM

Yea well the BG's are still flooded with bots removal of /follow really did a tiny dint in anything but a huge dint for us multiboxers I say they also did it as people would complain about us in bgs. I guess the only way to have fun is do arena but you gotta be fully geared to even do anything. Last exp I got full geared from doing dungeons guess I will have to do the same this exp.

Its still not as fun as it was running around in bgs full geared and destroying people while helping the team out. I guess we dont help newbies out much since they removed follow anyway.

They probably had multiboxers in their crosshairs the entire time perhaps not realizing it.

When players report, they usually go for something that looks out of the ordinary. Like 4+ toons following behind a single toon. So they report it. Blizzard investigates and can't know for certain if it's a player or a bot. So they just look at the 4+ on /follow and declare it the problem. It's the one thing they can do. They can't read your memory dump. They can't look at your process list to come to a determination. They can't even see if anything is periodically sniffing at their memory address.

Unfortunately good bots don't use follow. An upside for Blizzard is that because they are so often so well designed, hardly anyone reports them if the person running it has any common sense.

That is how we got where we are today. Multiboxers bear the brunt of the bot scare because they're a more obvious 'hack'.

ebony

10-12-2014, 01:26 AM

They probably had multiboxers in their crosshairs the entire time perhaps not realizing it.

When players report, they usually go for something that looks out of the ordinary. Like 4+ toons following behind a single toon. So they report it. Blizzard investigates and can't know for certain if it's a player or a bot. So they just look at the 4+ on /follow and declare it the problem. It's the one thing they can do. They can't read your memory dump. They can't look at your process list to come to a determination. They can't even see if anything is periodically sniffing at their memory address.

Unfortunately good bots don't use follow. An upside for Blizzard is that because they are so often so well designed, hardly anyone reports them if the person running it has any common sense.

That is how we got where we are today. Multiboxers bear the brunt of the bot scare because they're a more obvious 'hack'.

They never once said it was to stop all "bots" they said it was to stop a few simple bots on follow or afk players. (they even said you should not be following in pvp.) That was more of less freeware. They understand we needed it but they can live without us being there, saying as always your not doing anything wrong but we don't support you and stuff like fun for the boxer true but not fun for the other player on the other side (this is probs just PR for devs would look silly if they started sticking up for us then it look like the $$$$$.). As of yet no boxer has got banned for going in bg's but one 10 boxer at this time players was getting banned for using av pemade or o-que getting round the 5 per group in bg's. so can not say for sure this was from that. noway to find out.

Few months ago there was a blue post on the blizzard forums saying it does not sound like a bot but a mutiboxer this was after follow got axed.

Am not saying blizzard are in the right or wrong removing follow but you need to look at out of the box from there point of view or the other players we upset everyday.

They removed follow the same day they added the soul-trader back to ashran am sure the devs are not silly they know we use pets like this. But as always we start to make hell there then they remove it. i could not see many ten+ boxers trying to use that pet it would get Massey very fast five is evil with it. I could be wrong and infect they just massed up.

Mosg2

10-12-2014, 06:31 AM

There was a point that the Soul-trader didn't work in Ashran, Ebony?

ebony

10-13-2014, 01:35 AM

There was a point that the Soul-trader didn't work in Ashran, Ebony?

Yep it did not work when follow worked. The day follow got removed soul-trader came back. (this was true for mass ress as well and that works now.)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20663759/WOD%20BETA/WoWScrnShot_081614_004446.jpg

harvan

10-13-2014, 10:34 AM

Yep it did not work when follow worked. The day follow got removed soul-trader came back. (this was true for mass ress as well and that works now.)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20663759/WOD%20BETA/WoWScrnShot_081614_004446.jpg
u should try using it in bgs. bc if that works then they reenabled it bc of the server improvments for 6.0.2.

ebony

10-13-2014, 12:35 PM

u should try using it in bgs. bc if that works then they reenabled it bc of the server improvments for 6.0.2.

tryed it in bg its still does not work.

Mosg2

10-14-2014, 03:25 AM

Do you get kill credit and loot for everyone while in a raid group in Ashran, or only in 5-man groups, Ebony?

ebony

10-14-2014, 03:40 AM

Do you get kill credit and loot for everyone while in a raid group in Ashran, or only in 5-man groups, Ebony?

raids work in ashran and you get honor kills the items from killing players used to buy ashran stuff.
2nd u don't need to be in a raid just tag a boss to get loot from it. infact any npcs u need to kill work like this. for bag loot.

Fat Tire

10-14-2014, 08:12 AM

http://i.imgur.com/bOx53.gif

baisin

10-14-2014, 08:36 AM

So are Brew Pup and Soul Trader still working in BGs or Ashran?

ebony

10-14-2014, 12:53 PM

So are Brew Pup and Soul Trader still working in BGs or Ashran?

was unable to the test the Brew Pup as the pet is just bugged or is on beta. still

soul trader works on beta but not bg's still

ebony

10-16-2014, 02:33 AM

Brew Pup works fine in bg's so far in 6.0.2 soultrader is still borken from that bug players did with it or though that got fixed so they might add it back.

follow is still working in arenas as well same as what i got from beta.

Mosg2

10-16-2014, 07:47 AM

Does the brew pup stop when someone interacts with it like the soul-trader does? I've never used it.

ebony

10-16-2014, 08:52 AM

Does the brew pup stop when someone interacts with it like the soul-trader does? I've never used it.

no it works a lot better the soul-trader is a lot less "jumper" as well. but once you take the item from it then u can not interact with it again, but if you have a full bags of junk then you don't have this problem. you can run a marcio to clear the item but you spam the bg with beer. and that is a big prob if your keeping a low profile.

with the focus setup i have it acts just like follow and it changes over very fast, the prob with itw is it does not change target intel you meet you target. so need to use back up a lot.