Diablo 3: Patch 2.1.0

[Binzyrd]

1199


Get your multiboxing team ready! The first major content patch for Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls will be launching in the near future.

Have you checked out the Patch Notes for 2.1.0? The list is HUGE! You'll find new features and content, changes to classes and skills, cool new items, achievement and crafting adjustments, tweaks to the user interface, and a whole lot more. View the full list here (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/14569138/patch-210-ptr-patch-notes-updated-july-18-7-18-2014).

Diablo 3 Game Designers will also be discussing the upcoming Patch during Blizzard's new Tavern Talk on Twitch on August 21st at 11:00am PDT. Click here (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/15198719/introducing-tavern-talk-join-us-august-21-on-twitch-8-14-2014) for more details.

What features, fixes, nerfs or buffs are you looking forward to in this Patch? Which ones will benefit your multiboxing team the most?

[Ellay]

I'm looking forward to the Witch Doctor pet fixes the most. The characters will be able to perform at close to 100% maximum as a solo player does.
I really want Monks to be in an enjoyable state but they still need some polishing :)

[Devile]

The nerf to the enforcer gem really disappointed me. It feels like D3 Devs have no clue of what they are doing. Going from unkillable Pets to 30% damage reduction and now 25%. Uterly STUPID and pretty much useless stat now. Pets get 1 shoted in GR 30+. Guess SMK is the only way to go now for petdocs in GRs. Sure, it's PTR and that's what a test environment is for, but going from unkillable to 30% tells me they dont even play the game.

I really hope they take more time til they get it right.

[Ellay]

Agreed, don't want to be a negative nancy but I don't think they play the game enough or understand it.

[Devile]

Just tested pets and they go down like flies. Even the big dog dies fast. Already got the Enforcer gem. I'll level it to 25 but don't think that will prevent them from dying. Will need to find a way to increase their toughness some other way.

[Ellay]

I may have spoken too soon, the Monks apparently from what I hear are doing well in T6 and going past Rift level 30 without too much of a problem.. I'm happy with that.

[dancook]

Just lost 2 x WOH HC Wizards, because I thought it was softcore and I left them to die to take my wife to work - doh

[Devile]

I'm still playing with DH only. At least for now that they are a bit OP compared to the rest of classes. It's a lot easier to get all my gems to 25 with them, also get Ramaladni's Gifts. I haven't even touched my WDs or Wizards. I'm waiting for Blizzard to address the issues with pets and Hydras. Petdocs don't have a chance past GR33. AoE spells from mobs kill pets almost instantly, not even the big dog survives. Tried solo several pet builds and none did much past a certain point.

Hydras and the Firebird set are still bugged as hell, so won't try wizards until they do something about it. Pretty sure they will be even more OP than DHs once this gets fixed.

Haven't tried monks yet. Don't like the playstyle much, but will give it a try soon enough.

[Ellay]

I've been working on my monks this weekend. I LOVE IT. I really spoke too soon but it's the exact playstyle I wanted. Sunwoko's set is amazing and since the most effective way to play it is to spam mantra's you have extremely high survivability from spamming Mantra of Healing and Mantra of Salvation. I just got my third character equipped with the set and set it to Torment 6.. was a breeze, kill speed is quite nice, my crits are in the 110-120 mil range on top end and don't take much if any damage. My gear still needs fine tuning and I can swap out more defensive abilities for higher greater rifts, overall very pleased.

Side note on the Ramaladni's Gifts. They don't show up on the radar or map, and I've only found one so I feel like I'm missing them. How are you going about not missing legendaries? I think that is the biggest reason I like the GRifts, the only loot is at the end.

[Ellay]

Further note, from forums they state Sunwoko monks can get to about Grift37 solo. I'm hoping I get near that as a group.. right now I've stopped at 25 because I'm just working on gems. but I usually finish with half the timer left.

[Devile]

Seriously? I've got 6 Ramaladni's so far. They are as common as legendary pots I guess. I get 1 every now and then. I always play with sound, so I don't think I've miss any. So far, these are the ones I've used. The Calamity is insane :D

1220

The highest I've gone in GR with DHs is 35 but I'm not trying to compete or anything. Just getting all my gems (the important ones at least) to 25. I should prolly be able to get up to 37 or so, but multiboxing and Greater Rifts don't go along very well. It's 4 times harder than solo and dying with DH is so damn easy. U can't relax, not even a second. Even white mobs destroy u at 35+ and since u can't use Unity ring, u have half the toughness ppl have solo, making it extremely hard.

So far I've got to Rank 25+

Enforcer
Bane of Powerful
Bane of Trapped

and working on getting Gem of Efficacious Toxin, Gogok of Swiftness, Wreath of Lightning and Zei's Stone of Vengeance.

[Ellay]

Is there a way to play with sound but only have legendaries make noise?

[Devile]

Not that I know of :/

[Devile]

Tried petdoc few hours ago and I didn't like it at all because:


Pets AI/hitboxes still suck. Eventho its much better, is not good when u have 4 WDs with 23 Fetishes + 1 dog each. It's a huge mess, all get cluttered and a lot of them don't attack. Specially in corners and doorways, is just frustrating and takes forever to kill anything.
FPS!!! I have a very good PC and I can't really handle that many pets. It's just bad. Playable but I hate it. My GTX780 Ti can't do shit about this. I like that now other WD pets are almost invisible, but they are still rendered and u get massive FPS drops.
Killing speed was not amazing because of point 1. I haven't Finished all my petdoc gems, but still T6 didn't feel fast enough. I'm pretty sure any of my WDs will do a run faster solo than in party.
Pets die like flies. Certain affixes and RGs can kill most, if not all your pets with a single blow.

I ended up with just FA because FA + FS was lagging me pretty bad and I didn't notice much difference cause all the pets couldn't do much in close spaces. FA alone felt smoother and faster.

My main has a SMK so I made a round robin with BBV Slam Dance + Ghost Trance (WD1+WD2, WD1+WD3, WD1+WD4). I had 2x BBV for every elite pack. Also round robin of Piranhas Piranhado. Still, T6 didnt feel fast. Don't get me wrong, Elites and RGs went down fast, but it was actually trash that took longer to kill. The lack of AoE is a problem. Maybe if pets AI/hitboxes improved, it would be a good choice, but a party of 4 increases mobs health by quite a lot and if a good amount of pets are not dealing damage, then u will go slower than a solo run.

IMO, Jade is a far better choice right now for WDs multiboxing. Less clutter + more AoE = faster killing speed.

I think 4x Wizards or 3x Wizards + WD is a great choice too. A Tikladian WD as support with 3x Firebird wizards can do some serious damage.

[Multibocks]

Just lost 2 x WOH HC Wizards, because I thought it was softcore and I left them to die to take my wife to work - doh

ouch!

[Multibocks]

Seriously? I've got 6 Ramaladni's so far. They are as common as legendary pots I guess. I get 1 every now and then. I always play with sound, so I don't think I've miss any. So far, these are the ones I've used. The Calamity is insane :D



Sigh, and I have zero Ramaladnis.

[Ellay]

Give the monks a try!! you do need the 4 piece bonus of the sunwoko set but I am able to jump into the fray of T6 and face tank elites while arcane beams are going off and standing in poison.
The face tanking is enabled because spamming mantra of healing puts a group shield on, and when you recast it twice a second the enemy needs to be hitting for 100k+ to bust through it.
Also using ability like resolve (-20%) passive to reduce damage further, and inner sanctuary (-55%). Plus they fixed it so armor and resists scale much better.
I am just happy the class I've wanted to work from the get go of the game is finally able to compete with the ranks of other classes.

[Devile]

Eventually I will give it a try, but I don't see monks doing good in Greater Rifts. 38 is the highest in Americas while every other class is around 40 already. I'm gonna use DHs until they nerf them (hope not), they buff other classes (really hope so) or get bored (maybe). I have full Sunwuko sets for all 4 monks already since I stashed them long time ago. Only need the boots. Also have Flying Dragons for all.

Right now I wanna farm fast. Ramaladni's, Ubers, Goblins, Bounties, etc. and DHs provide exactly that, fast and efficient farming.

[Multibocks]

Give the monks a try!! you do need the 4 piece bonus of the sunwoko set but I am able to jump into the fray of T6 and face tank elites while arcane beams are going off and standing in poison.
The face tanking is enabled because spamming mantra of healing puts a group shield on, and when you recast it twice a second the enemy needs to be hitting for 100k+ to bust through it.
Also using ability like resolve (-20%) passive to reduce damage further, and inner sanctuary (-55%). Plus they fixed it so armor and resists scale much better.
I am just happy the class I've wanted to work from the get go of the game is finally able to compete with the ranks of other classes.

Can you post your build or profile? I haven't played monk before.

[Ellay]

With the most awesome change last night, bounties reward legendaries based on torment difficulty, so getting a Ring of Royal Grandeur is much much easier.

with that said.
Gear to shoot for with this build.
Ring of Royal grandeur
3 pieces Sunwoko, minus helm.
2 piece Augilds (chest / shoulder )
Flying dragon weapon for weapon.
Witching hour
Depth diggers
Couple of options for helm.
If you use mind's eye the spirit bonus from inner sanc goes to all monks - so it's super group friendly, but with a flying dragon and the right gear set and speed I don't think this is fast enough generation, plus you have to be standing in it.
Working on getting a set of Peshkov, able to spam breath of heaven at that point for really high spirit regeneration.

This is my main profile.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tuivian-1495/hero/7488853
Mix one of them using Exploding Palm for increased 20% damage, and another use Cyclone strike.
Trying to figure out how to get breath of heaven skill and dashing strike on my bars.

[Ellay]

Also I just realized.. I have quite a ways to go on my gear, my dps looks terrible but it's super inflated with all the buffs that work together. When I'm just standing in town in game it's 1.3 mil sheet dps. I see profiles with 1.3 mil unbuffed so ... hot dog I got some improvements to make.

[Multibocks]

So I'm kind of getting annoyed with how easily these guys get separated. I'm leveling monks for the season and their primary strike tends to separate them during battle. How are you getting around this? Should I remove primary attack from left mouse button and make it move only?

[Devile]

I tried solo Wizard today and made it to GR35 10:57 after a couple tries only. Very impressive. 3x Wizards + WD sounds like the combo I'm gonna use for GR35+. DH are perfect for T6 Rifts/Bounties, Trials, Ubers and general farming, but for GR35+ they are too squishy. They can do GR40+ solo but that's cause of Unity, without it, you get 1 shoted by Jailer without even seeing it coming. Multiboxing DHs is very frustrating once u hit those levels cause u died too easy, even from white mobs. Wizards can have twice the toughness and even have 2 chances of dying (Firebird 4 set bonus + Unstable Anomaly), making them a much better choice. The dot kills everything with enough time and a good support WD can provide safety/damage for the party.

[Multibocks]

I'm shocked you guys are getting up that high. I have one very geared WD that I use for solo play and I've only done grift 32. This is of course a pet build, which isn't the best build for grifts. They die too goddamn fast.

[Ellay]

I think I've only done grift 26 or 27 so far. I haven't really pushed the limits yet but I think ranged classes will do better as the scaling gets higher. Less worry on tanking the damage.

My characters stay together pretty well. Which primary attack are you using? Make sure to have a key to hold down when attacking that "forces stand still", then they don't keep moving forward. I hold down that key + left click for primary attack.

[Multibocks]

Yeah I use that, however the little dash forward they do starts to separate them from their primary attack. Then I spend the next 30 seconds trying to group them back up. It's pretty frustrating. Also I am having issues with ISBoxer. It likes to set off all my round robin skills at once and I can't figure out why. It's really random too. Sometimes it won't do it for 3 mins and then it will for the next few keypresses. Really annoying.

Oh and I switched from your primary attack of Way of the Hundred Fists to Fists of Thunder with the Wind Blast rune, because almost perma freezing bosses is too badass.

edit: would you mind doing a video? I want to see if you have the same issues I do with this group. I really don't like skills that make you dash forward or teleport to the mobs. It becomes to easy to have guys all over the place.

[Ellay]

Gotcha, I'll see if I can get a video of them in action tonight. I guess at a certain point I'm used to the separation and regrouping aspect of it all, just takes time.
I also agree I'm not a fan of skills that cause you to move forward. That's why I stayed away from Fists of Thunder because it teleports you to the target.
Epiphany does this as well but it's not on 100%.

[Devile]

Teleport is the one thing that makes me hesitate about Monks. Besides that, they lack damage and AoE. Sure, u can always pull stuff and kill it close to u, but that's way slow compared to ranged classes that can clear the entire screen without much effort.

My Wizards are getting stronger and with a support WD I can easily clear GR35. I still need to work on toughness but it looks like an amazing combo for higher GR. DHs are perfect for speed farming. I can get high trial keys with them, ubers, etc.

I would like to try Crusaders again too.

[Ellay]

Since monks have to face tank. I'm not sure I can hit those GR levels. I'll have to rearrange my defensive capabilities.
I have only tried up to 28 but I did it in 8 minutes so I think my dps is fine for scaling.
Monks aoe is superb, the sunwoko clone is an AoE 3500% damage. I can easily make a lvl 35 trial rift but that's pushing it probably for how much I can take. They run about 18 mil defense atm.

[Ellay]

Just made a quick recording of T6. Did it in about 6 minutes, density was pretty good but hopefully it gives an idea of the build and monks~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1IdSaehNdM

[Devile]

Since monks have to face tank. I'm not sure I can hit those GR levels. I'll have to rearrange my defensive capabilities.
I have only tried up to 28 but I did it in 8 minutes so I think my dps is fine for scaling.
Monks aoe is superb, the sunwoko clone is an AoE 3500% damage. I can easily make a lvl 35 trial rift but that's pushing it probably for how much I can take. They run about 18 mil defense atm.

The main problem with high GR is not really survivability, but damage. U can get around survivability but the lack of damage is what's gonna make u fail. Even if u have all your monks with Blackthorne's sets and Xephirian amulets, if u don't deal enough DPS, it's a lost battle. Not to mention there's a complete lack of balance in GR. Your gear and skill is prolly less than 50% of the chance to succeed a GR. More than 50% is going to be RNG. It's all about the map and the mobs u get. Blizzard REALLY needs to address this ASAP.

Nice video, but from there I can see the killing speed is not good. AoE is not the best like I thought. Sure u can pull stuff with Cyclone, but u should see what happens when 4 DHs place sentries, or even better, when Wizards cast Apocalypse and just run while everything dies off screen. Still, it's fun and will prolly try later on. The dsync is a serious problem. Sure Crippling Wave hits 360 degrees, but that's not the best skill for the SWK build.

[Ellay]

Only 1 character is using Crippling Wave for the 10% increased damage bonus, rest using WotHF:FoF.

Can you throw up a video of your DH's, I've seen it played solo but not multiboxed and was concerned the playstyle just didn't seem "fun".
Also wizards too if you got those :)

[Multibocks]

Cool video, but I may move these guys to back burner after hitting 100 plevels. I use to watch a wizard boxer clear T6 and he smoked the stuff. I wonder if he still uses Ashara's(spelling?) 4 piece bonus.

edit: can someone tell me whats up with my ISBoxer? I can't get my keys to work anymore. Only the first guy does anything now.
12341233

[Ellay]

What happens if you just blow it away and start fresh? I had to do that about a year or so ago when things went wonky.

[Devile]

Yep, easier to do it all over. Takes a lot more to troubleshoot the issue than just do it all over again. I usually keep a common base template for all my builds/classes and start from there, so I don't have to start completely from scratch.

[Grobi]

Hi,

so which team is stronger in 2.1? 4 wizards or 4 demonhunter?

[Ellay]

Judging by the leaderboards. Demonhunter.
For non multiboxed play it looks like the perfect combo is 1 monk , 1 wd, 2 dh.
The monk though is in pure defensive mode with super high CDR to maintain vulnerability and just groups mobs up and debuffs them. WD for added damage, and the 2 DH for straight damage.

I haven't tried Wizards in 2.1 (I have them geared though at 70) and I would say Demonhunter playstyle also seems easier for a multiboxed perspective.

[Ellay]

So starting to work on DH's, leveled them up to 68 last night.
I did try a round of Grifts though on my monks prior. Highest prior was 28 so I went to 30 and had no issues and finished in 9 minutes. So not seeing a problem with DPS yet and my gear has a long ways to go before I would consider it to be good. I'll try for higher but when monsters are able to instantly take you out DH's will shine better which is why I'd like to try them out and see if I can perform better :) It'd be nice to actually compete on some of these leaderboards.

[Multibocks]

Sweet I hope you go far! Do you stream on twitch?

[Ellay]

Negative, I might turn it on every now and then but I just use it to record a short session. Maybe I'll try to turn it on more often :)

[Devile]

Multiboxing DH hits a wall around 37 or so. Damage is not a problem, but survivability is. EVERYTHING 1 shots u, even white mobs. Since u cant have a follower with Unity to duplicate your toughness, being a glass canon turns into a big problem. If u get a bad rift, which is extremely common thanks to Blizzards bad RNG/balancing, u will get Act5 mobs. They are fast, they jump, charge and dont give much rift progress regardless of their difficulty. U will prolly die several times and fail the rift. Anarchs and Winged Assassins are a huge pain in the butt. Even with all the cold damage they get, they are still pretty fast and can charge or jump u, sometimes before u even see them. It only takes 1 hit and 1 or more DHs go down. Awareness is a must, but even with that, u will die. Chanon Bolter wont save u here cause in higher GR mobs take quite a while to kill and the taunt will run off before u kill them.

That's just white mobs. Elites are a different story. Jailer is retarded and is unavoidable. Unless u have 4 Julia Cameo amulets with good rolls, then u will insta die to these packs. Solo is not that hard to deal with, cause it's all about position and range, but multiboxing is something else. Then there's is cold too which also will instakill u in less than a second of standing on top of one of the ice thingys. And to enjoy it even more, u have Thunderstorm.

Basically u cant chill or relax for a second. Anything and everything kills u. GR35 is not difficult so u can upgrade all your gems to 25 with a good DH group, but beyond that its a little bit difficult. Wizards are a little better IMO because they have far more toughness and can die 2 times (passive + firebird's 4set bonus). I use a 3x Wizards and a support WD and things go pretty good. Still need to work on the wizards gear tho. My main is very good geared and im at solo GR38, can prolly do 40 without problems but need to get the right rift ... RNG!

Non multiboxing parties are always 2 pure DPS DH, 1 zDPS monk and 1 support/zDPS WD. Basicall, it's just the DHs doing damage and the monk and WD providing buffs/debuffs to multiply the DHs damage. WD will use Tiklandian to root all mobs and disable all elite affixes, spam Big Bad Voodoo, Mass Confusion and Piranhas (30% + 20% + 15%). Monk will stun also, pull everything and debuff with Mantra of Conviction, Inner Sanctuary and Crippling Wave.

DH is a lot of fun and its a very different playstyle but can be frustrating. For T6, I suggest u get a Boon of the Hoarder Gem, Avarice Band and a Goldwrap. That way u can forget about survivability. For higher GR, Wizards might be a better choice for multiboxing.

PS: I'll try to make a video during the weekend.

[Devile]

Ok, made 3 quick videos almost back to back.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPz09mkttig

This is T6 Rift with decent density. Rift can take me 4-8 minutes depending on the density and mob types. This was on the Cementary so it was fast (5 mins). U can see AoE shines here. Just a couple sentries only from each DH and everything dies. Rift Guardians are not problem whatsoever. From the damage I take, u can tell what's gonna happen on high level Greater Rifts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xztz8NKDKmo

This is about Trials and from here u can see how no other class comes even close to DHs. It's extremely easy to get keys to upgrade gems. I died at 41 but if I actually try, I can get higher than that. I was using Bane of the Powerful which is completely useless there and not moving much to avoid getting hit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OHsmXHagd0

And finally a GR35. It was not the best density but still u can see how easily I finished in around 10 minutes. I did proc awareness a few times, but still was able to finish it without dying. I was lucky to not get jailer/cold affixes tho, but even in those cases, it's not a big issue. Problem starts once u start going higher.

All videos should be in 720p. If they are not, it's cause I just uploaded them and they are still processing.

[Multibocks]

Nic videos, but I can't help to think that DHs need a nerf or everyone else a buff. This is what I imagined WDs being like before they nerfed that gem that made pets invincible.

[Mamut]

Thank to everyone who shared vids, nice to see other classes in action before leveling them up.

Those monks look fun and the dmg is more then i expected. Would see survival getting very hard once you get to higher Grift (same problem as my condemn saders)

The DH in action, they play much differently from my crusaders. While I'm enjoying the saders a lot I've been tempted to try doing 4 wiz or 3 wizz and a CC WD for higher rifting.

For trials i run condemn build and can usually get mid 30's just standing there spamming vacuum. For the Grifts I've been using a stampede build but finding I run out of time a lot once i get to Grift 34 or so due to elites that require me to move slowing down the dps. (or just cause i scrub out and die to some arcane i didn't see).

Wiz looks like a pretty standard blizz/apoc build would work decent, add in the WD for some CC and buffs. Both have the extra life. The stun on level 25 Zei's stone of Vengeance would be pretty nice similar to my stampede. Having the WD would make using teleport quite difficult which i used a lot way back when we had CM spam style wiz.

Cheers

[Devile]

Nic videos, but I can't help to think that DHs need a nerf or everyone else a buff. This is what I imagined WDs being like before they nerfed that gem that made pets invincible.

Nerfing makes no sense to me unless it completely breaks the game, which is not the case here. They just need to buff other classes and add more stuff to make the game more appealing and interesting to everyone. Killing a build is always a mistake. It just generates frustration and hatred towards the game. Build diversity is horrible in D3. Every character is a copy+paste of the top chars on leaderboards which is quite sad. There is literally no build diversity in this game.

Nerfing DHs will achieve nothing but a lot of unsatisfied players who got a buff and then it was taken away because of ENVY. Most, if not everyone who asks for DH nerfing is just envy because their class is not that good. Instead of nerfing a class that is working, they should buff other classes. That's called BALANCING. A nerf is the LAZY ass solution to a problem. Buffing the other classes without adding plain damage takes time and creativity. They should do that and also add more Torment levels so T6 is not the highest difficulty.

Buffing other classes is the right thing to do. Regardless, I can play any other class if the lazy ass solution is implemented. Until more ppl cry about another class being OP and that one gets nerfed as well.

[Ellay]

Really enjoyed the videos thanks.
I actually got 4 DH's up and running with full M6, it didn't take too long and I'm surprised at how much fun I am having with their playstyle.
The only thing though is my DPS even with full M6 is no where near what you are putting out.
I'll have to compare your gear to mine and find out what the difference is, it looks like Calamity helps quite a bit but I'm sure there is more to it.

[Ualaa]

Balancing is bringing classes in line with each other.

It could be a nerf to an overly strong class.
It could be a buff to an overly weak class.

If only one class is stronger, they have to decide if the others are weaker than intended (buff everyone else a bit), or if the stronger class is too strong (how much of a nerf to implement).
Similarly, but the reverse process when one class is weaker than the others.

When one class is a lot stronger/weaker than the others, it's going to be easier to adjust the one class than every other class.

[Devile]

Calamity only adds 20% damage. The real damage comes from each DH that has over 1.2m dps unbuffed, 45+ CC, 360 CD and 1.74+ attack speed breakpoint (1 at 2.84, 1 at 2.16 and 2 at 1.74). All have SoJ and 3 rank 27+ gems (main has 35). Also 40%+ Sentry Damage, 20%+ Cluster Arrow. Fully buffed with Wolf and Bane of the Powerful they around 1.8 - 2m sheet dps. 1 DH uses a Toxin gem for an added 10% damage on top of the Calamaty 20% debuff. Took me quite a while to get them where they are, but it was well worth it. They are still a work in progress since I dont have TnT for all, weapons are not the best, 1 SoJ without socket, etc.

U add up all and they can do that. Is not basic gear gathered in 1-2 weeks of playing. Basically, end game items. U should be allowed to play that way with end game items. Problem is, not all classes can do the same with end game items, which Blizzard needs to address. Wizards come pretty close with a fire build and Furnace.

Wizards need Hydra and Firebird fix and they will prolly beat DH by quite some. Petdocs need more survivability for pets and damage. All melees need a buff. They need to balance Rifts in terms of density and progress vs mob difficulty. Fix certain affixes or drastically reduce the damage they do to melee classes (ie: jailer). Remove pylons from GR, etc. Good old BALANCE.

Nerfing DH is a step backwards. Then they will have to nerf Wizards and piss off more ppl.

[Multibocks]

Wow you have a quite a few paragon levels. My main has 357, but my alts are 100 :(

[Ellay]

Further testing I don't find DH's to be too OP, mostly due to their defense causing them to flop to the ground over a hint they might take damage.

I am kind of interested in trying out Wizards now as well... ugh just spent the whole weekend working on DH's :) this game actually has a lot of replay value in it.

[Devile]

DHs are glass canons and that's the trade off for having high damage. As u noticed, is not like getting M6 and u will instantly faceroll the game in max difficulty. U need other end game items to be able to do that. A lot of ppl that talk about nerfing DH never even played one. Exact same thing happened with WDs and Jade set. Bnet forums were full of kids crying 24x7 about Jade being OP and that it needed a nerf when they didn't even have a WD to begin with. They just bitched cause they saw a video or a streamer facerolling T6, but never tried it and saw how long it takes to get there.

End game builds should let u do that! That's the reason why we play this repetitive game over and over again. Farm and farm to get those items that will let u beat the game. Blizzard just needs to balance all end game items so all classes have a chance to beat the game the same way. Right now we are in good shape compared to 2.0, but there's still a lot of work to do in this matter. Blizzard needs to address those balance issues ASAP so everyone can enjoy their classes without bitching at the rest for being better.

M6 alone lets u play T6 very decent, but u wont get far, specially in GR. Don't expect to do GR40 any time soon. If u think DHs are OP and u can easily do everything u see in videos and streams, then try it and see for yourself. In order to do amazing with a DH and be OP, u need Tasker and Theos, a good Etrayu with ramaladni's gift to socket it, Bombadiers Rucksack and an M6 set. All with good rolls. Just the 3 first items alone will take u quite a while to get. Those aren't items u will get in a week unless RNG is amazing for u. Sure there are always lucky ppl that get everything in a few days, but that's not the general rule.

Did around 40+ T6 rifts during this last weekend and got lucky with 2 trifecta TnT, so now I have 3 DHs at 2.84 breakpoint. Upgraded a few gems, rerolled some items for more damage and tried T6 ubers. This is my last DH video, hope ppl see its based on end game gear gathered in 2 months (200+ hours on each), and not some shit u can do by playing 1 week. Enjoy :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK2q1-f2XVs

Wizards are amazing and even easier to gear than DH. DH end game items require several rare legendaries, more complex calculations (breakpoints), etc. Wizards are a lot simpler and they can double/triple DH toughness without much effort. They only need a Firebird set and a decent weapon which doesnt need to be The Furnace. A well rolled Maximus can do pretty good, if not, a Sunkeeper + Firebird offhand. Sure, they can't burst, but they can dot and just destroy everything in time. That may not compare to DHs in lower difficulties, but in higher difficulties they can shine. Provided a good support, they can do amazing as well.

I'm working on a multiboxing build for Wizards, with and without suppor WD. I would love to play 4x Wizards, pure damage, no support. AoE wise, they are the kings and they don't have cooldown like DHs have. I really hope Blizzard fixes Wizard bugs. I'll post a new thread once I have a decent build to show.

[Ellay]

Another good video thanks. I thought Ubers with DH's would be nice, but that was butter smooth.

The reason I want Wizards to work is from what I have found Strongarm bracers debuff proc stacks - found a video that proved it.
So with Black Hole in a decent round robin situation you could potentially have 120% more damage going making for really nice kill speeds. The only issue is on some elites and any Rift guardian you would not benefit from this damage and a large portion of a rift run is dps'ing down the boss, which it seems Wizards dps is not as high as DH's. Unless I'm mistaken?

[Devile]

I should be a little bit better with my DHs now since I've switched 2 DHs to pure fire with Immolation Arrow. The 1 DH that had SoJ without socket now has a gem, so that will add up too.

I don't think Strongarms stack like that, but if it's the case, then why go with Wizards that have cooldown on that skill, just go with Stampede Crusaders. 4 of them will proc Strongarm's like there's no tomorrow. That's another build I'm working on too. The main attack knockbacks and stuns, so u can imagine everything will be CC and debuffed. And Crusaders have the highest toughness and with Akarat Champion they are completely immune to CC. Stampede stuns even Rift Guardians and with 4 Crusaders we are talking about permastun of everything.

I'm working on this too but will take me a while I guess, tho I got most of the items already.

[Ellay]

Check this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYRt8lAT7mY
Basically shows it. I figured this is something Multiboxing can capitalize on for wizards putting in a good Black Hole rotation or with like you said the Crusaders, though a normal group could do that too.

[Devile]

Interesting. It should work, but Wizards won't capitalize much from this. The debuff lasts what? 5 seconds? I dont think u can stack 4 debuffs. Maybe 2 since each debuff runs its own timer and by the time the last Blackhole pulls the same mob, the first and even second debuff should be over. Not to mention de cooldown u have, making it hard to repeat at will.

Meanwhile Crusaders can stack several times really fast since your main attack don't have any delay, and by the look of the skill, it knockbacks almost every cast with just 1 Crusader. U don't need a rotation or anything in this case. Worst case scenario, u will have 2 stacks on 100% of the time. 3 stacks around 50% and 4 stacks 25% of the time or so. No real math behind this, just assumptions.

I'll try this for sure.

[Ellay]

Let me know how it goes. I don't have the stamina for all this gearing :) also I see Crusaders don't seem to scale well like other classes do at the high grifts. It looks like the monsters just hit too hard but I'm assuming this build is more ranged?

[Devile]

It will take me some time since I'm also gearing my wizards. But from initial tests, Phalanx Stampede is a very solid build. I didn't switch any of my gear to Physical damage nor I have the right weapon and shield, and was doing ok in T6. I'm sure it will scale very good once I switch to physical, phalanx damage and start getting those specific legendaries for the build. Once I'm able to do GR30+, I'll create a topic with my build.

[Ellay]

I'm extremely sad to say I tried to back to monks to compare what I have learned on the DH's and they literally felt unplayable. The ability to keep them synchronized is a huge boon (the DH's), and the damage is so much more effective. Not having to be "on" the target for DPS to continue is very important. Everytime I have to dodge freeze or run away from Molten, 0 DPS is happening.

Will continue on the DH path, and maybe dabble in Wizards. If they could have the WD pets scale with the GRifts, I think they would become viable again :)

[Devile]

Multiboxing shines with ranged classes. Melee works, but AIMING is a huge problem. Unless its an AoE skill that can hit 180-360 degrees, u will hit AIR with some of your characters many times, losing a lot of DPS. Dsync is not a big problem with ranged classes since most of their skills are AoE. Doesn't matter if u are actually aiming at the target or not, u will still hit your mark. That doesn't happen with all melee skills. Monks can hit with Crippling Wave, but that's not gonna be the case for Way of the Hundred Fists. Once there's a little dsync, 1-3 monks will be facing a different direction from the target(s) and u will end up doing a lot less party damage. Not to mention all the running around to the target which adds up to a huge difference in terms of efficiency.

WDs, I'll keep an eye on them, but I don't have much faith. FPS is a huge problem for me. Even with very good hardware, petdocs kill my FPS and it becomes unbearable. I dunno, guess I'll have to figure something else.

[Ellay]

My machine doesn't have issues, and it's not bleeding edge. Maybe I can assist on that one.
One of the biggest items to help was setting the fps in ISboxer for each instance. I throttled mine at 30 no matter what the game wanted it to be.

[Devile]

Once they fix pets, I'll get back to this topic. For the time being, I don't plan on playing WDs at all.

I did try a few things with Crusaders and my initial test build seems stupidly OP. I need to work on my DPS because I'm use using my old Holy Shotgun items only, but so far it looks VERY promising.

[Multibocks]

For a physical Phalanx build is there a specific weapon or shield or any item I am looking for? What skills are you using?

My crusaders are currently building towards Darklight, 3 of 4 have the weapon. It seems ok, I'm not sure if it can be successful in GRift 30+.

[Devile]

Yes, u are looking for this:

Mandatory
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/unrelenting-phalanx

Recommended
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-furnace
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/heart-slaughter

Without the shield, u will do T6 just fine. The Strongarm stacking will help u increase your damage, but once u get the shields, in theory it will duplicate your damage. My build is the regular Stampede build. U can check this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hl1lNdBq0U

This build is very solid and that's what top Crusaders are using, regardless of what's visible in their profiles. The main issue with this build is how the horses behave with ground objects and walls. Blizzard needs to hotfix Stampede so horses deal with objects in a much better way. Narrow corridors, ground objects, walls, etc. are a huge problem. When a horse hits a wall or an object, it just disappears, so your DPS can go REALLY low in certain maps just cause horses can't go thru.

The waller affix is a HUGE HUGE pain in the butt. Solo u can prolly get around walls, but in a full party, waller is just stupid. Sure u can use a pot to remove walls, but that has a long cooldown and those things spam walls. They literally shut u down. U don't really die cause of your high toughness, but u just get stuck and waste a ton of time. If u can't hit them, they are free casting and spamming more and more walls. I tried a GR31 and got no less than 5 packs with this affix. Uterly frustrating. Of course I failed since I couldn't MOVE, couldn't even skip the damn things. Is not that they spam walls to block u, some times they cast walls ON TOP of u, and u get stuck inside a wall without being able to move. IMO that's a long due bug Blizzard is ignoring.

Introducing Illusory Boots as mandatory could help, but then u won't be able to use Leoric's Crown and lose a lot CDR which is very important for this build. Doable but I don't think this is the way to address this. They should make the horses go thru walls, not u, just your horses. That or have Steed Charge go thru walls, just like Spirit Walk for WDs. If u get a rift with several packs with waller affix, trust me, just leave game and start again. It's not worth the time.

U can also use Falling Sword Rapid Descent but u will sacrifice 1 skill for just the waller affix. Besides the cooldown of this skill is a lot higher than the Elite internal cooldown for waller, so u will get fucked anyway. I will try Illusory Boots and if it hurts the build too much, I'll just go with the regular build with Leoric's Crown and leave game if the rift has too many waller Elites.

Besides waller, build works very good. I used my Holy Shotgun items and was able to do T6 without a problem. Not like T6 is hard anyway, but still it worked very good, better than Holy Shotgun anyway. When I finish my build, I'll create a topic.

PS: Changed the video for Alkaizer's GR41. As u can see, this build is amazing and multiboxing it has a ton of potential but requires some skill in terms of positioning.

[Ellay]

Need the Shield - unrelenting Phalanx, casts Phalanx twice.
The best weapon is considered The Furnace but it's drop rate is insanely low, so low actually I've never gotten one to drop in d3 :)

I think this is a viable build though and Devile was messing around with it last night. I'm sure he can shed further info.

[Mamut]

Laws of hope- Wings of angels lets u pass through waller. During my gearing and lower Grifts i had 2 using this for 100% uptime for the faster movement and running through mobs/wallers.

Now that im mid 30's Grifts Im using Laws of Hope- Stop time on round robin for 12 seconds of damage immunity. My Dps has me stalled out on Grift 34 so im looking for weapon/rings/ammy upgrades. I found one furnace so far on seasons but never seen a heart slaughter or anything over 3400 dps.

Not sure what the best legendary gems are. Atm im using BoT, BoP, with one using the toxin gem to buff party 10%. For the third im trying out pain enhancer and Zei's. Mobs get pushed so far back that im usually at the max distance from them for the Zei 50 yard bonus dmg.

[Devile]

I rather lose CDR or just leave game than cut my toughness by half just to use Laws of Hope. I think I can get my party close to immortality with proper setup without losing DPS. Prolly will try GR40+ tonight just to test survivability (not planning on killing anything). See if I can stand on frozen, thunderstorm, frozen pulse, orbiter, etc.

As for gems, BoT, Pain Enhancer and prolly Gogok of Swiftness (1 with Toxin). BoP could be too but might not help much against RG. Taeguk is amazing but it can be pretty stressing playstyle. Wish they made it to last 5 seconds instead of just 3 or increase the damage per stack. U lose the stacks too easy and getting again max stacks can take forever. Very good against RG tho.

[Multibocks]

Is that shield seasonal? Surprising on weap dps Mamut, I have 3 crusaders with 3700+dps weapons. Still need some Ramaladni's though :/


edit: pains me to think of how many Heart Slaughter's I have destroyed.

[Mamut]

The shield is not seasonal. The seasonal shield is fryders wrath (condemn shield).

[Multibocks]

Ah ok, what about Blessed Shield build with http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/gyrfalcons-foote and the shield that goes with it? No good for high GRifts?

edit: also http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/baleful-remnant is wicked awesome for clearing rifts, just sucks once you hit the boss. I have had my whole screen full of these guys just destroying mobs before I could get to them. Sadly boss fights are very very slow.

[Ellay]

The Blessed Shield was pretty fun when RoS came out but started to show it's lack of DPS once you hit T6, then the Holy Shotgun build came about and took over, now it's the Stampede route if your looking for max damage.

[Ellay]

I wanted to try out Wizards last night with the popular Apoc/Hydra/Black Hole build, and while my gear didn't support it I could do it fine in T2/3 but it just didn't gel well. Honestly for multiboxing DH's seems like the smoothest option, it's getting 1 shot that's annoying :)

[dancook]

Almost at lvl 70 with WD + 3 X Wiz, and advice on builds would be appreciated.

Currently using arcane torrent powered up by arcane dynamo, and a bunch of damage increasing abilities.
WD just has a small army to give Wizards some time to do damage.

[Devile]

For Wizards, nothing comes even close to Firebird 6 piece + Blizzard Apocalypse + Blackhole Blazar + Mammoth Hydra. The Furnace is BiS but that's crazy difficult to get. Second place is for a good rolled Sunkeeper + Magefist. If not, Maximus.

But is not just cast and forget. Firebird set needs to hit 3000% damage in 3 secs in order to proc the infinite DoT. And since this damage only cares about base damage, a slow 2 hander with high DPS is the best choice in order to hit that 3000% damage fast. If not, u will have to keep reapplying the DoT. That's why some ppl use Meteor Molten Impact so they hit that 3000% damage instantly and the DoT will tick forever.

[dancook]

For Wizards, nothing comes even close to Firebird 6 piece + Blizzard Apocalypse + Blackhole Blazar + Mammoth Hydra. The Furnace is BiS but that's crazy difficult to get. Second place is for a good rolled Sunkeeper + Magefist. If not, Maximus.

But is not just cast and forget. Firebird set needs to hit 3000% damage in 3 secs in order to proc the infinite DoT. And since this damage only cares about base damage, a slow 2 hander with high DPS is the best choice in order to hit that 3000% damage fast. If not, u will have to keep reapplying the DoT. That's why some ppl use Meteor Molten Impact so they hit that 3000% damage instantly and the DoT will tick forever.

Would you still do that with a WD? the build normally includes teleport - and I kind of miss using that, but then I realise how long I'm able to stand nuking sometimes..

[Devile]

Wizards can do pretty high damage and have higher toughness than DHs, so in theory they should do better in higher Greater Rifts. At least that's my theory for multiboxing only. But, the main problem is CC and pets. DHs have cold damage that will slow everything. Even 1 DH will keep everything slowed (I prefer 2 DH with cold) . And to make it even better, they have 4 autocast pets that will distract mobs so DHs can go to a safe spot and wait til everything dies. Since they have high burst damage, they can afford staying without moving forward to wait til things die.

Firebird Wizards lack burst damage, don't have pets and CC is not great. Skills have long cooldowns and slowing things is prolly not the best idea since Firebird gamestyle requires mobs to be chasing u and die 1-1.5 screens away from DoT. If they remain stunned/slowed, then u may go out of range and the infinite DoT stops, causing them to not die. Sure u can stick around and wait til they die, but then u will fail the rift anyway. This build requires u to keep moving forward or u won't have enough time. U cast your Blackhole, Apocalypse and leave a Hydra ahead and go to the next pack. Not even stop for elites, just gather 1-3 packs (asuming affixes are not a huge pain in the butt) and DoT all.

The idea of having a WD is that u can still move around, cast your DoT safely and keep moving forward. Mobs will still chase u and keep up with your pace, but the WD will prevent anything from coming too close and hit u. That's why I decided to go with that combo, otherwise, if u go with 4x Wizards, u might run into survivability issues. If u have Illusionist passive, that will cause horrible dsync issues cause not all wizards will get hit at the same time, causing your teleport to be off cooldown at different times for each wizard. Without Illusionist, teleport is limited to your CDR and may not save u in most cases. I rather replace teleport with Familiar or anything that adds more damage.

4x wizards i's doable, but I don't think it will be more efficient than 4x DHs cause u will be running and kiting all over the place and 1 or more wizards will die at any time. U need something to distract mobs and CC them to the point u can free cast and let them chase u til they die. U can try slowtime with mirror images and try to not go too far so things still die, but not sure how efficient this will be. It's something I will test later on.

A SMK WD will boost the party DPS and provide the kind of CC that wont interfere with Firebird gamestyle.

[dancook]

Cheers, I think I will run 4 x wizard until I get 3 with enough gear then substitute in the witch doctor. Might take some time :D

[Devile]

Been testing Crusaders for almost a week now and I'm pretty much convinced it's a better combo for GR36+ than Wizards + WD or DHs. I'm barely scratching the surface here and my main is already criting elites for 80m+. I have 40m+ toughness, around 100k life per sec and immune to CC, basically immortal. It's just too good. DHs are perfect for Ubers, normal Rifts, Trials and GR1-35. But keywardens, bounties and GR35+, I think Crusader are way better. Farming keys and Bounties with Crusaders is just perfect. Nothing comes even close. Permahorse with Swiftmount lets u clear bounties in prolly half the time DHs and u NEVER die :D. Not to mention u can always port uninterrupted.

I dont even have full gear. Most my Crusaders have 1-2 gems only, yellow amulets, random SoJ with INT/DEX or Holy/Electric damage. Only 3 have Unrelenting Phalanx Shields with suboptimal rolls. 1 Furnace, 1 Heart Slaughter and 2 horrible Baleful Remnants.

The thing I hate the most is doing T6 rifts with them. Once u play DH u are spoiled. Everything feels so damn bad and slow. I'm facerolling T6 but doesn't come close to DHs speed. But I have no other choice in order to gear them. Sure I can do T6 rifts with DH and then switch to spend my shards, but Kadala is a @#$% and I get more stuff from regular drops than from her. Once I get my forth shield and a couple more Leoric Crowns, I'll trying GR35 and see how it goes.

It's so cool to have maxed reflection pools all the time :D

PS: Tried GR37 and failed horrible. Right at the beginning a nasty champion pack with Extra Health Knockback Desecrator and my favorite affix, WALLER which boxed my whole party with desecration for the first minute and a half. Density was really good, the map too, but elites were @#$@%. No less than half were waller and I got completely boxed every single fight. Every time I was catching up with the timer, a waller pack. Well, it helped me see that I'm not ready for GR37 yet. 2 Crusaders are doing decent damage, but 2 are doing less than half those 2 are, so not gonna make it that way. Survivability is pretty good. Trash does almost nothing. Can face tank some elites ground effects but I can die if Akarats Champion runs off. Once I improve the damage of those 2 Crusaders, I should be able to do GR37+. Also, for GR, Gogok of Swiftness is a must IMO. Need 100% uptime for AC and getting that much CDR from gear will hurt my DPS.

Did GR34 without problems. It was not as fast as with my DHs, but not a fair comparison since DHs have all end gear items Crusaders don't iven have BiS weapons. Still, it was decent and nothing did much damage.

[Ellay]

Really exciting to hear :) I like the fact you get to be on the same screen as the boss you are fighting, instead of chilling behind a wall until it dies :)

The perma swiftmount thing also sounds awesome for keywardens/bounties. As well as the damage reporting now with a Furnace of 80m, seems like those bracers stacking is working very well.

I'll probably give crusaders a try again.

[Devile]

80m+ without Furnace. My main has a Heart Slaughter, at least for now. SoJ with DEX, not the best shield/helm, but overall, in good shape:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Devile-1430/hero/44621324

Bracer stacking works amazing for trash, Elites (blues and minions) but does nothing on Champions, Rift Guardian and some big ass white mobs like Executioners, Mallet Lords and Punishers. For those u need raw damage on all your chars and my party is handicapped right now. I'm carrying 2, but once I improve them, it should be a lot smoother. At least I managed to get all my Shields, reason why GR34 was possible. Now I need to work on 2 more Leoric Crowns, 2 decent weapons and Physical/STR SoJs for every char. Right now I'm hitting Champions and RG for around 50m. I should be posting later today my topic about Crusaders. I'll prolly upload a video later tonight as well.

Steed Charge is THE best skill to move around. Something u don't quite get from the description is that mobs don't attack while u are on the horse. While WD Spirit Walk kinda does that, many ppl don't know that the "spirit" left behind can be killed and that will instantly cancel the skill. That doesn't happen here. It not only lets u run at an unbeatable 150% movement speed, but it literally makes u invisible to everything for 3 secs. Not to mention u can go thru mobs and even most doors. Can be used to quickly search all map for bounties/keywardens or escape from tricky situations. I use it all the time whenever I wanna switch to Nemesis Bracers on Shrines/Pylons. I get 3 secs where Elites don't even cast a single affix, to switch back to Strongarms and position correctly. By the time Steed Charge is over, the pack is already stunned. Many times wallers can't even cast because I'm able to quickly Steed Charge in position and stun them before they start casting walls.

Crusaders beat DHs for bounties and keywarden runs by a LONG shot. Not even with Danetta's Hatred DHs can compete with Crusaders. DHs are so squishy on T6 that I was forced to look around with just 1 DH and once I found the objective, clear the area a little bit and port the other 3 to that position. Plenty of times I got my whole party killed by doing this, specially on Fields of Misery cause of the huge ranged mob density. Also, porting out was always a problem and had to clear everything to port, wasting time. Sure, I can clear everything pretty fast, but still, sometimes u get your portal cancelled cause of a single mob or an elite affix, etc. Not a problem with Crusaders. U just run around extremely fast with your whole party without consuming any resource at all, go thru mobs safely, get to your target, kill it, port to the next bounty/keywarden. I'm able to farm RoRG prolly 3+ times faster than with DHs and NEVER die. I actually ENJOY doing bounties now. Multiboxing bounties/keyruns was prolly the most BORING thing in D3 for me, specially after u do split farming. Everything felt so damn slow and many times I fell asleep. Not anymore. This weekend I lost the count of how many bounties I did and got a ton of RoRG, 2 ideal for my party.

So yeah, Crusaders are in very good shape. My target is to be able to do GR40 with them. We'll see how it goes.

[Ellay]

Even though the strongarm bracer doesn't proc, is the stun still going off on RG and Champions?

[Devile]

Yes, but it's not 100%. They are still able to cast affixes or do certain attacks every now and then. Still helps kill them in a more comfortable way and also procs Bane of the Trapped for additional damage. Keep in mind some RGs are very dangerous regardless of the stun, like Bloodmaw.

[Devile]

Pets have been buffed. Will give it a try during the weekend. Also Spirit Walk got a little buff so it cant get cancelled anymore.

[Ellay]

Excited to try this out as well :)

[Devile]

Well, I tried WDs tonight and I'm once again so disappointed. It's clear, nobody at Blizzard really plays this game. Seriously they don't have a clue. And if they actually play, they SUCK at it.

They did fix pets survivability, at least from what I saw til GR34 where I got bored, frustrated, pissed off and rage quit. No point on playing petdocs. Why? Cause they haven't fixed pets collision. Depending on the map and the target, there are PLENTY of cases where half of your pets are doing NOTHING, and that's just for 1 WD. Imagine when u have 4. It's completely pointless. Get a narrow corridor and u are fucked. Get single target, or even 3 targets, the same.

They should get rid of collision for pets, otherwise, there's no point on playing petdoc in a party. It might not seem like a problem in lower difficulties, but once u scale and have a clock ticking, there's no way u can beat a GR when half your DPS is just standing still doing nothing.

Besides that, there seems to be a bug or something else with BBV. My main has around 1.5m dps buffed and when I have 2 BBV stacked (different runes), I was over 2.4m, but during plenty of fights I noticed my sheet dps was just 1.6m with 2 stacks. I have no idea why was this happening but my damage was WAY lower that it should be with 2 BBVs. Didn't test more cause I was so damn pissed that I just left the game.

Don't think I'll be playing WDs for a while cause I don't think anyone at Blizzard plays WD or has a clue about this class. I don't think they will fix this class any time soon. Hope I'm wrong but dont think so.

And to make matters worse, they fucked up big time on this patch and they are avoiding all complains about it. Crafting is almost over for me cause I have few Veiled Crystals. Kadala change was good, but they seriously fucked up with the amount of crystals we get, and RGs drop nothing. Trials are a joke now and they did this while people where competing for seasons. Total lack of judgement!

[Ellay]

I only got a chance to play the WD's briefly last night and I did notice their AI didn't seem too sharp. On RG's the entire team didn't seem to join in until the boss was under half HP. I guess that's what spoils me about the DH's, their damage is on, just takes a few to ramp up.

[Multibocks]

WD pets need to be invulnerable. DHs sentries are and even if the pets were invulnerable the chances of dying are still high. Pet AI blows too, I had my Garg and dog refuse to join a RG fight that was like 5 feet away. So stupid.

[Devile]

I dont really think they need to make them invulnerable. They can just fix some mobs that do stupidly high damage to pets. If they make them invulnerable, great, if not, u can get around those issues somehow. The AI/collision problem makes this build/class unplayable for higher GR. U are competing against a timer and while all other classes/builds can apply all their damage to mobs, we have a good part of our pet army standing still cause they cant reach the target. And playing in a party makes it a LOT worse. At least your dog and garg should go thru everything. Having 20 fetishes surrounding an elite/boss and not letting your dogs/gargs hit its a huge dps problem. Reminds me of the good old times of D2, playing Necro in Lut Gholein, the Maggot Lair.

There's no way u can beat a high GR like this. It's very sad cause WDs in theory, should be THE best class for multiboxing but u rarely see anyone using them. I'm may try the Carnevil build since at least u get a little more control and can have your fetishes go ranged while dogs/gargs tank, tho Blizzard screw up this build too with the leash distance change.

[Devile]

I'm kinda bored of the game right now and wanna try something new. Played too much DH and Crusaders, and WDs plain suck right now. I really wanna make 4x wizards work, but not being able to teleport around stops me from doing it. Illusionist passive is a must for Wizard survivability but that causes dsyncs because not all wizards will get hit at the same time to reset teleport's cooldown. But what if all 4 use Unity rings and try to get roughly with same life, armor, all res for all? Wouldn't that kinda solve the problem. Sure, it's a double edged sword, but at least it makes it possible to play "normal" wizard while multiboxing.

It's gonna be challenging, but I guess it will be fun :P

[dancook]

I've gone back to 4 x Wiz

using this with RR blackhole

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#eQONSj!SZVX!YYcbcY

The magic weapon shield keeps me pretty safe in T4, haven't tried to go higher yet - my Wizards aren't end game geared.

scrub that, I thought I'd try t6, killed a few elites - no deaths yet :D

complete the rift but died a few times :/

[Devile]

please delete

[Devile]

please delete

[MiRai]

I am going to ask that this thread doesn't turn into a mega-thread of several different builds and team compositions for the new patch. People who haven't been following this from page one are unlikely to begin digging through a 10+ page thread just to find an answer which is likely buried or may not even be answered.

It'll be more helpful to everyone if specific builds or team compositions are broken down into smaller, more organized threads where it's easier to follow the discussion both now and in the future.