Rules Updated

[Dranny817]

Hello all found out this morning they have updated the rules regarding multiboxing for Trion games. This is the link I was sent.

https://support.trionworlds.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/947/kw/multiboxing

Updated 29/07/2014 :(

[Andreauk]

hmmn..

Are you sure this isn't for ArcheAge as mentioned in this thread?

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/51111-ArcheAge-Founder-s-Packs-Available?p=389867&viewfull=1#post389867

[Dranny817]

I was told it is for all Trion games. I have sent a message to Daglar to see if I can get a reply about Rift.

[Andreauk]

Smedbox had a forum post on the Rift forum which did state that the rules originally said:

"It is perfectly valid for a player to play the game on multiple accounts at the same time.
While we do not condone or tolerate unattended gameplay or botting, if a player is actively in control of all of their characters, they are not in violation of our Code of Conduct."

but now the link in that Rift forum post has indeed been updated :(

http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/353718-multibox-migration-rift-2.html

[Andreauk]

I was told it is for all Trion games. I have sent a message to Daglar to see if I can get a reply about Rift.

Told by who?

[Andreauk]

I started a thread on the Rift forum.. if this is it for boxing then I wonder if I can be refunded for the things I paid for in the past month for my 2nd account?

My post and I plan on phoning them later.

http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/433342-multi-boxing-stance-change.html

[Dranny817]

Told by who?
When I logged in some jerk started harassing me and told me the rules had changed and multiboxing wasn't allowed. So I checked the rules and contacted support.
He didn't know how I was multiboxing just was just being a jerk but after checking the rules I logged and waiting to find out before I box again.

[Andreauk]

Well it is allowed so long as your followers just follow you and do no actions.. unless you have a keyboard and mouse for all of them.. lol
This is so bloody typical.. I only started boxing it recently.. am patron x2 and spent quite a bit on the store for both accounts.

[Dranny817]

Well it is allowed so long as your followers just follow you and do no actions.. unless you have a keyboard and mouse for all of them.. lol
This is so bloody typical.. I only started boxing it recently.. am patron x2 and spent quite a bit on the store for both accounts.


Well I was going to sub them all to get the perks from 54-60 so I guess I'll just save my cash for now.

P.S. Can they detect if you are using Isboxer.?

[Andreauk]

I would guess that they would have something that could detect it.. but I'm not sure.. I think this is a silly move on their part as they need all the money they can get.
I almost increased my box from 2 to 5.. glad I didn't now as it would have meant more credits to get the mount speeds to match.
How many were you boxing?

[Dranny817]

I got 5 Clerics currently 54 which I was going to push for 60 before the expac. :(

[Andreauk]

I have my 2 mages, and with my 2 clerics I was using a variation of the druid soloing build.. melee boxing has been really fun :(

[Lyonheart]

I know we have been over this before " Its their game and they can do what they want" It just seems so wrong to "change the rules" like this so late in a games life. How many people have spent thousands of dollars paying for multi accounts who are now at risk to lose everything. At the very least they should be obligated to pay back ALL the money spent on all but one account.

Im not paying Rift.. but these types of rules hurt us. It seems like more and more MMOs are getting in line with this type of multiboxing stance. It killed my interest in Wildstar and i was looking forward to boxing a group in that game. i could do it.. but not without risk and that keeps me from even trying ( boxed two for a few weeks.. just not the same for me )

[Andreauk]

I would like to be refunded everything on the 2nd account.. I'm annoyed as they don't seem to have bothered to announce the change, or why they changed it.
I have been number 1 on the live chat for ages now.. and there's no phone support.. looks like I'm back to wow boxing or finding another game.

[Andreauk]

they told me I'm not entitled to a refund as too much time has passed.. charming

[luxlunae]

Andreauk did they confirm that you're going to get in trouble if you keep boxing your two accounts?

[Andreauk]

Here is a copy of the live chat.. I edited out my name and emai details -

GM Treance: Thanks for contacting Trion Worlds Customer Support. My name is GM Treance. I'm happy to look into your issue for you today.


Me hi there :)


GM Treance: Hello. How may I assist you today?


me: I have 2 rift accounts.. I made the first when rift came out.. the second is new as I used ascend a friend.. I have been playing both accounts (multiboxing them) and I see as of yesterday you have changed your stance on allowing this
me: before your stance was - It is perfectly valid for a player to play the game on multiple accounts at the same time.
While we do not condone or tolerate unattended gameplay or botting, if a player is actively in control of all of their characters, they are not in violation of our Code of Conduct."

me: I am patron on both, and have spent quite a bit of money on the store.. so if multiboxing is no longer allowed then I'd like everything on the second account to be refunded.. the second account is ************
me: that account can also be closed as I have no use for it now.


GM Treance: I can certainly understand how that can be frustrating. I will be more than happy to assist you with that! In order to do so, I’m going to need to collect some information from you.
Is the e-mail on this chat linked to the account in question, or is there another e-mail related to this issue? If there is another e-mail related, may I please have that information?


me: this is my main account the veteran account *********** the new account is ***********


me: you can see they are linked via ascend a friend which is why I got a 2nd account


GM Treance: Great, thanks! Just a moment while I retrieve your account information.
me: np.. why did they change the multiboxing stance without any announcement? I was at risk of being banned :(


GM Treance: Unfortunately, I'm unable to provide any refunds for this account due to the amount of time that has passed since these charges were made. I deeply apologize for the inconvenience that this change has caused, but our policies can update at any time.


me: it's been like a month..
me: the 2nd account is new
me: who do I complain to about the changes.. a lot of people box even 5-10 accounts


GM Treance: If you would like I could I escalate your issue for further review. Their response will be via email, but I have no ETA as to when they will be able to respond.


me: yes please do so.
me: it's very unprofessional to not announce such a big change thats been allowed since release


GM Treance: May I assist you with anything else today?


me: yes one more thing.. if a person was to continue boxing what action would be taken.. as they are using what they paid for?


GM Treance: Unfortunately, I'm unable to say.


me: so there is a new change with no consequence known?
me: did you yourself know about the change?


GM Treance: Well, we never provide the possible actions that can be taken on the account, and I do know about them
.
me: well the new rules dont ban boxing.. just the way its done.. it allows me to keep my alt on follow but not contribute.. that will make many in game annoyed that's for sure!


GM Treance: I apologize, but this isn't something that is up to Customer Support.


me: so who do I need to speak to? tech support or?


GM Treance: Well, the best thing I can do is escalate your issue for the refund request, but we can't really discuss the policy change.


me: okay go ahead and do that and I can open a paypal dispute at the same time.


GM Treance: Is there anything else that I can assist you with before I escalate your issue?


me: doesn't seem so


GM Treance: Have a good day and thank you for contacting Trion Worlds.

[Andreauk]

The way I see it is I'm playing the first account fine.. but really they should only ban the second account because it's not being played with it's own pc/keyboard/mouse?

[luxlunae]

As I've said on the thread, I want something more solid than a rule change on an obscure page.

[Andreauk]

well the GM I spoke to said he knew about the change... but they really should have made it known at least on their own forum.

[luxlunae]

yeah my mind is boggled. was the plan just to change the rule and then start banning people that had been legitimate customers for years? really?

[Andreauk]

I totally agree.. it's so badly handled.. the only way I knew was from the OP being told in game then telling us here.

I'm not happy at all.. how long had you been boxing Rift? At least I only lost money for a short period of time..

[luxlunae]

I haven't actually given them any money since they went f2p, just whatever I spent on my original game and subs three years ago.

I'm mildly annoyed but not passionately so. Not sure what I'm going to do with the month of august until grad school classes start again.

[Andreauk]

Sometimes I wonder if it's worth my boxing anything anymore.. it's just a waste of money when they change the rules.

[luxlunae]

For me wow will always be worth boxing because of the advantage it gives me with professions and playing the AH.

Other games I box for the experience while it is happening, not in any kind of long term attachment way.

[Andreauk]

I loved wow boxing but Warlords doesn't look very box friendly.. some of the instances I have watched on other peoples youtube require the group to split and do other stuff.. and then there's all that aoe..

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Well, I guess it was fate that I decided to ditch Rift for other games. That's disappointing.

[Andreauk]

Well, I guess it was fate that I decided to ditch Rift for other games. That's disappointing.

What other games apart from wow are good for boxing? I have only boxed Rift and wow.. I tried Diablo but the breaking follow I couldn't get the hang of.

[Dranny817]

I'll continue to box 4 of the cleric's and leave my main account and see what happens. will log on tonight and give it ago

[Andreauk]

If you could reply on my thread on the rift forum I'd appreciate.. we just want some official clarification

http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/433342-multi-boxing-stance-change.html

[Lyonheart]

What other games apart from wow are good for boxing? I have only boxed Rift and wow.. I tried Diablo but the breaking follow I couldn't get the hang of.

EQ1 and 2 are boxer friendly... EvE..FFXIV is fun to box, but hard to be great at in end game content ( lots of moving around ). But for now it looks like if we want to box PvE content WoW is the best.. as far as how much you can do and such.

[Andreauk]

EQ1 and 2 are boxer friendly... EvE..FFXIV is fun to box, but hard to be great at in end game content ( lots of moving around ). But for now it looks like if we want to box PvE content WoW is the best.. as far as how much you can do and such.

I guess with the fact that devs box, wow will remain the least likely to axe boxing too.

[Dranny817]

Just got a PM from Daglar he is going to get back to me.

[Andreauk]

Just got a PM from Daglar he is going to get back to me.

Who is he?

[Dranny817]

Who is he?

He is the "Creative Director Bill "Daglar" Fisher"

[Andreauk]

He is the "Creative Director Bill "Daglar" Fisher"

That's good then.. at least it is some kind of response from them.

[Dranny817]

That's good then.. at least it is some kind of response from them.

Ok so he has been back in touch and said he was unware of the change and is looking into it and will make a post on the matter once he is up to speed.

[Andreauk]

Ok so he has been back in touch and said he was unware of the change and is looking into it and will make a post on the matter once he is up to speed.

Thanks that's great... direct him to my thread if you like.

[Dranny817]

Thanks that's great... direct him to my thread if you like.


I think that is the thread he spoke of in the PM and he would make the post in, Maybe :confused:

[Andreauk]

I think that is the thread he spoke of in the PM and he would make the post in, Maybe :confused:

I must say I'm quite surprised at how nice the majority of the replies were on the Rift forums.. I expected a ton of boxing hate.. but nope.

[Dranny817]

I must say I'm quite surprised at how nice the majority of the replies were on the Rift forums.. I expected a ton of boxing hate.. but nope.


Give them chance to wake from their slumber.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I guess with the fact that devs box, wow will remain the least likely to axe boxing too.
That's flawed logic, IMO. If this was indeed an intentional thing and they stick with it, the most likely factor was being free to play. If WoW ever goes that route, I'd expect to see some possible changes there as well.

[Dranny817]

Hey guys, I didn't want to post in this thread until I got a chance to actually talk to our CS folks.

The article will be updated to reflect that RIFT and ArcheAge have different stances on this subject. No policy has changed for RIFT.

~Daglar

[Andreauk]

I'm very happy now.. haven't been able to log in today till I knew it was safe :)

[luxlunae]

Thank goodness. I've been sitting on my crafting alt afraid to log in!

[MiRai]

For a direct link:

http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/433342-multi-boxing-stance-change-5.html#post4856064

[Dranny817]

Aye well all my fault sorry for the alarms but wanted to be sure so we didn't get banned.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Nice that they clarified.

[Andreauk]

Aye well all my fault sorry for the alarms but wanted to be sure so we didn't get banned.

No better safe than sorry.. and they may not have updated the article at all.. the gm I spoke to via live chat thought the rules had changed too.

So thanks for the heads up :)

[Smedbox]

Daglar has responded in the forum thread. It was a mistake. The "new" multiboxing rules is only for ArcheAge and the support post has now been changed to reflect that. Multiboxing is still allowed in Rift in the same way it has always been.

https://support.trionworlds.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/947/kw/multi-boxing

EDIT: Hah, didn't notice there was a whole second page in this thread. :)

[Andreauk]

Nice to see they changed it so fast :)

[Lyonheart]

This is great news!

[woloss]

I got ban on my 9 slaves accounts :(
So, I sent e-mail to support, wait...

[JohnGabriel]

I got ban on my 9 slaves accounts :(
So, I sent e-mail to support, wait...

Nooooo!!! What? You were banned in Rift for boxing??

What happened?

[woloss]

Yes, for multiboxing. At 17 lvl hah.

I don't know exactly atm. Wait e-mail from support.

P.S. multiboxing allowed in World PvE (i mean instant adventures, rifts)?
P.S.S. main account still alive

[Smedbox]

Ok, you're multiboxing, which is perfecntly normal, so that didn't seem a reason to ban. Did you do anything else that would be against any rules before you go t banned, or at any other time since you started playing the game for the first time?

[woloss]

Ok, you're multiboxing, which is perfecntly normal, so that didn't seem a reason to ban. Did you do anything else that would be against any rules before you go t banned, or at any other time since you started playing the game for the first time?

If i do this, my main account got ban too. In the last time I just did instant adventures for maybe 30 min per day and nothing else.

P.s. I didn't play solo, so...

[Dranny817]

Any further news on this yet Woloss.?

[woloss]

Nothing, still waiting for an answer from support.

p.s. atm, i dont want to buy patron, that's why i can't get the Live Chat Support.

[luxlunae]

We had someone else come into chat support today with the same problem so I've started a thread in the tech support forum (probably not the right place?) where people should express their concern even if they aren't actively boxing at the moment. I feel like we did a good job of keeping the issue moving in August and getting an answer and obviously someone at Trion needs a slap up the side of the head again.

http://forums.riftgame.com/technical-discussions/tech-support/443016-multiboxers-getting-banned.html#post4929869

[Dranny817]

Try sending Daglar a PM about it too this is his profile http://forums.riftgame.com/members/daglar.html he has always answered any questions I have had with regards to Rift.


P.S He is the Executive producer for Rift just in case you are wondering or didn't know.

[Alex66]

My 5 RIFT accounts have been banned 3 days ago, I appealed and received this response (the irony is that I dont even have Archeage installed, let alone play it).

==============================================
Response By Email (GM Giant) (11/03/2014 05:45 PM)
Hello,

Thank you for contacting us regarding your recently banned Trion Worlds account. We have reviewed this account and the reason for the ban and have found this ban to be valid. While you are welcome to create a new account and begin a new adventure within ArcheAge, this account will not be reopened.

In order to best guarantee that your account is not closed again in the future please keep these tips in mind.

• DO NOT ever make use of a 3rd party program to assist you in ArcheAge. ArcheAge intentionally does not allow add-ons or macros. Any use of such is a violation of our terms of service and will lead to your account being closed permanently.
• DO NOT use a proxy service to login to our servers
• DO NOT create multiple accounts unnecessarily
• DO NOT mimic gold spammers/sellers
• DO make sure that you add valid information when creating your account. This means making use of a valid e-mail address, first and last name, date of birth, and secret questions and answers.
• DO try using a different e-mail domain if necessary

This decision is final. If you have any other questions or concerns in regards to ArcheAge or Trion Worlds then please let us know.

Regards,

GM Giant
Senior Manager, Customer Support
Trion Worlds Inc.
Customer By CSS Email(11/02/2014 07:55 AM)
================================================== =========

I guess I'll try sending a PM to Daglar as you suggest, Dranny

[moog]

And I bet you waited days for that response!

Rift's Customer Service has been appalling since it went F2P :(

[Lyonheart]

It sounds like their system is all messed up..did you call them? i mean that response is obviously for Archage and not Rift..and you don't play Archage

[Alex66]

Trion has no call support, and I cannot chat with them online because you need to have a patron status and being logged-in (cannot while being banned). I did however started a thread on Rift Forums and added comment to pre-existing thread Lux started a couple of weeks ago. I also sent a pm to Daglar, who is an executive Producer for Rift and the one who was providing us with feedback from Trion on multiboxing.

They are messed up and paranoic about botters in ArcheAge. The problem is that Trion switched to unified Glyph launcher for its games and even though I neither play AA, nor have it installed, does not eliminate me from being a target for AA watchdogs just being logged-in via Glyph with similar emails originating from one IP. But they really should at least verify that an accused actually plays the game they attempt to safeguard. Quite unprofessional, imho.

Here's a link to Luxlunae's general thread on bans for boxing:
http://forums.riftgame.com/technical-discussions/tech-support/443016-multiboxers-getting-banned.html

and mine
http://forums.riftgame.com/technical-discussions/tech-support/446199-rift-accounts-banned.html

If any of you guys play/played RIFT and have a log-in for its forums, I'd appreciate you leaving a comment on either one and generally make noise that might get noticed, lol.

[Alex66]

Phew, sending a PM to Daglar (Senior Executive on Rift) helped :)

==========================
Greetings Alexander,

Thank you for your appeal inquiry.

We have reviewed your account and verified that you were banned incorrectly. We apologize for this error and we will use this information to improve our reports system so legitimate players such as yourself are not banned incorrectly going forward. We are working our hardest to get rid of as many of the illegitimate players as we are able to, but unfortunately this means that certain times our reports can be too restrictive and catch legitimate players. Again, we apologize for this inconvenience. The ban has been removed and you should be able to log in normally once again. Good luck and have fun in RIFT.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to let us know. Your reference number for this question is 141102-001151.
===============================

/dance

P.S. Lol, I still cannot login on either of my accounts, Aghh
P.P.S. All's fine now. Got a veritable shower of in-game gifts too:)

[Alex66]

Got a PM from Daglar

===================================
You were erroneously caught in a report -- and the example of you has now fixed that from happening to other folks.

Your accounts should be unbanned at this point. Sorry about that!

~Daglar
======================================


Good guy that Daglar :)

[Smedbox]

You need to post the responses on the Rift forum thread.

[Lyonheart]

Got a PM from Daglar

===================================
You were erroneously caught in a report -- and the example of you has now fixed that from happening to other folks.

Your accounts should be unbanned at this point. Sorry about that!

~Daglar
======================================


Good guy that Daglar :)

Damn good news! So cool that a dev would respond directly to you!

[Alex66]

You need to post the responses on the Rift forum thread.

Done. Posted responses on general ban-for-multiboxing thread started by Luxlunae. However, I think RIFT multiboxers that also have Archeage toon(s) are still at risk as long as Trion uses Glyph launcher for both games. What saved me was the fact I dont play AA, so its watchdogs screwed up not bothering to check if I had AA characters before banning me for multiple Glyph logins from one IP address. So be careful.

[JohnGabriel]

You can uninstall glyph and just run each game from its own launcher. You do not need glyph to play.

[luxlunae]

Thanks for letting us know how things shook out for you. My last wow account expires next week and I'll probably take up rift or lotro again at that time so I'm thrilled that at least the deal is getting taken care of.

Your intuition that the glyph launcher might be running some anti-botting stuff that flagged you is an interesting one. I myself despised the launcher from the get go and will continue to not use it.

[Alex66]

Your intuition that the glyph launcher might be running some anti-botting stuff that flagged you is an interesting one. I myself despised the launcher from the get go and will continue to not use it.

I dont think Glyph launcher itself has an anti-botting component, but rather the login server Glyph uses. Their reports apparently flag multiple logins from same IP with alarm trigger looking for email address that are similar (mine are almost identical with only one digit different in them and using same "gmail" domain). If I were to start new team with new accounts I'd probably use different email domains and unmaching addresses to create logins.

But hopefully they modified their reporting as they said they did, and we should not be having problems down the road.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I dont think Glyph launcher itself has an anti-botting component, but rather the login server Glyph uses. Their reports apparently flag multiple logins from same IP with alarm trigger looking for email address that are similar (mine are almost identical with only one digit different in them and using same "gmail" domain). If I were to start new team with new accounts I'd probably use different email domains and unmaching addresses to create logins.

But hopefully they modified their reporting as they said they did, and we should not be having problems down the road.

If that's the case, then it's recently added "feature." My 5 accounts were riftmain@... and riftalt1@... through riftalt4@...

[Alex66]

If that's the case, then it's recently added "feature."

Yes, I am pretty sure the new "feature" came about just recently after Archeage launch. Trion is fighting botters and gold sellers in AA, so Rifters may get affected, even if not intentionally.

[luxlunae]

As the proud possessor of rifttwo through riftfive@ my domain.com I'm a little alarmed.

[MiRai]

This thread was originally about the rules of multiboxing being updated on Trion's site which have been acknowledged and made clear as to what the policy was actually changed to -- Which was no change at all. It then turned into a "I got banned" thread and is turning into a speculation thread about how Trion is flagging potential botters and/or hackers through the Glyph client. Now people are worried about whether they also play ArcheAge or whether they share the same e-mail domain on their accounts when there is no proof of anything and Trion is not going to tell us how they catch the "bad guys."

This thread has run its course.