subcap c5 ratting

[Alzuule]

Does anyone have experience with multiboxing the anomalies in c5 space? What would you guys suggest trying out apart from domis? Right now ive used armor rr domis but due to the strain they put on mass and the fact that i am in a active corp that might not like me closing the hole every time i put my characters back and forth i am looking for alternatives in about the same price range. Marauders are too expensive/big per ship as well.

[EaTCarbS]

I'm not a WH dweller myself, but from what I know, people usually use t3s with t2 logi to do anomalies in other holes. I know some multiboxers were using Gilas pre-Kronos, but I'm not sure how well they fare after the changes.

[Crayonbox]

have you considered spider tanked tengus? its been a while since ive been in a c5, but i remember spider tanked tengus being popular, but i think that was before the HML nerf.

[Mokoi]

We have 3 multiboxers in a c5/c5.

We use a mixture of things.

I have used RR domis, 5 of them at a time, doesn't stress holes TOO much, and you can use them for an hour before rolling farm etc.

Also, Ishtar / Logi are amazing.

Also, Paladin remote repair / DPS also works.

[Alzuule]

Mokoi, could i get you to screenshot your window layout for RR domis? right im just using isboxer for broadcasting and stacked clients with quick swapping, i am considering going with RR domis but the swapping between clients to do remote rep is something i could do without, but havent figured out a way to set it up with dxnothing/videofeeds/isboxermagic. My biggest problem is probably going to be that i only have 1 screen so room is limited, however all i need is a good way to manage the RR since drone assist works with up to 11 domis.

[Morganti]

You went back to the c5? How's that working out Mokoi?

[Crayonbox]

Mokoi, could i get you to screenshot your window layout for RR domis? right im just using isboxer for broadcasting and stacked clients with quick swapping, i am considering going with RR domis but the swapping between clients to do remote rep is something i could do without, but havent figured out a way to set it up with dxnothing/videofeeds/isboxermagic. My biggest problem is probably going to be that i only have 1 screen so room is limited, however all i need is a good way to manage the RR since drone assist works with up to 11 domis.

im not mokoi, but i use rr domis and i get the rr part set up via watch list. i just go down the line and just +1 each on the watchlist and with broadcast, they all target first person on watchlist and get cap and rep chain going. This is usually fine, but occasionally incoming dps is higher than single repper chain, so they need to focus reppers. at that time i use broadcast for armor and since all fleet windows are in the same place, i target and rep. pretty straight forward.

only thing to watch for is that you dont kill yourself by accidentally having your drones attack your own guys. ive done that and while trying to stabilize reps be utterly confused where the dps is coming from.

also to avoid that completely ive been using a drone bunny in a webbing loki. increases damge , adds damage and lets me deal with frigates without having to switch to light drones.
reason for the need to deal with frigates was because iw as also running 10/10 deds too in the same set up.

[Alzuule]

Thats how i do it as well with the watchlist.

The thing that annoys me is when i got things locked i have to swap to the other clients to change reps from the target they locked first which is what im working on fixing atm. Think i got is sorted now though, will update in an hour or two.

[Crayonbox]

I always prelock my cap chain first and pull that target up in the target list so its by itself above anything else that I target. If i need to single target rep someone, i just use broadcast and target anew. if the repping target is someone's chain, they continue to rep the chain and doesnt have a new target and if its not, its the last target so just selecting the empty space for the chain guy and self and everyone else targeting the new target... if that makes sense.

[Mokoi]

This is my setup.

I'll explain a bit further, too.

1166

Most importantly in EVE is your overview. I have mine setup so I can see all of the brackets on my overviews, just to make sure they are aligned, and to ensure they are all in the same system, etc at a glance. Also works for targeting etc.

The HUDs I have stacked next to their modules, so I can activate mods easily. The huds are interactive, so if I click on them, the pilot associated with the HUD broadcasts for reps. The overview bracket windows are also interactive, so if I click on them, they will also broadcast for reps. This is important in two different ways.

Typically in PvE, all rats or sleepers will target one ship, and in a C5 or C6 wormhole, this gives you precious seconds to call for reps in a fleet. Since you can see who is being yellow boxed, and anticipate damage from the overviews, it's very nice to be ahead of the DPS, and be able to have your logi support or RR ships start locking you just behind the rats / sleepers. This results in much faster reps on your ships, cna can equate to fewer losses.

On the HUD side, it's often the case in PvP where ships will target multiple hostiles and apply DPS as a group to only one of them out of many. For this reason, the HUDs provide situationally better information on who needs reps and how urgently. You might have a BS and a Cruiser being yellow boxed, but you will know that the cruiser will require reps much sooner than the BS, and it's harder to lock it on your logi. The Hud can also show you how much of the DPS is being focused on one toon, as opposed to the overviews, which onyl relay information about who is being shot, does not help as much to find out who is taking more damage. (unless of course you have a Dread targeting your ship, always keep your overview organized to see the biggest threats at the top, or they could be lost in a huge battle, and you may miss th fact that a dread is about to blap your MWD BS or BC.

I'm not finished with my UI yet, and I have two computers, with a scout / recon on the other monitor, making it easier to scout with 2 characters effectively or Logi on one minitor and DPS on another.

All-in-all I am way happy with how easy it is to box EVE, less so about how easy it is to find fights when everyone knows you are going to drop ishtars on them :)

Props go to Lord's Servant, who even though I don't fly with him any more, I am grateful to him and his corp for the help they gave me, training me for my life in a WH.

Morg, yes I am back in WH. I had to take a long month and a half AFG because of RL stuff, and I wasn't able to train much, but we joined a great WH corp, and have room for more, if you are interested in applying :)

Fly it like you stole it.

[gomeler]

I've done 3x Drakes in a C2-C3, and used 1x Vargur in a C5, but I'm looking to work my way into clearing C5s more efficiently with the pilots I have. I see lots of mention of RR domi balls, and I've participated in them many times. However, are there glaring issues with mael/logi balls?

2x Basi:
1171

4x Mael:
1170

This should have enough tank to survive everything but the Forgotten Core Information Pen and maybe Core Stronghold. Managing reps should be very simple, with a pair of Basi's pre-locking all the Maels. Sleeper neuts are only a concern in the logi chain, which can be countered by applying the secondary cap transfer to the Basi's, instead of topping off a Mael.

Per EFT, it should project damage very well out to 50-70km, which is the max that sleepers orbit at. It would likely fall apart very easily if someone were to drop it, as the reps would easily be jammed, but it is cheap enough to write off and hopefully it goes down fighting. My concerns would lie in mixed weapons, in that every Mael will have to target the same target to apply gun DPS, on top of the assisted drone DPS. Frigates will also be a problem, but I think half of the Maels could be fit with webs, or maybe drop a gun for a smart bomb. Not sure how to handle this yet.

For reference, I've done solo C5 sites in a Vargur, but I'm looking for a way to decrease clear times, decrease ISK on field(~2b Vargur fit is nerve wracking), and maintain the ability to run C5 sites solo(my corp isn't always active when I am). An added bonus would be the ability to train the Mael pilots into the Nag(and use the Vargur and almost-Vargur pilots I already have), and I could potentially use the Basi pilots for reps in PvP/PvE if my corp needs them instead of my PvP main.

Is this a terribad idea? Triple boxing drakes was pretty easy, but I'm not sure if quad-boxing DPS + dual-boxing reps would be too much to manage? Or if Maels are a terrible ship to use for DPS. I've used a pair in a C4 on Sisi with decent success, no clue if that translates well to C5 sites.

[Mosg2]

@Gomeler
I've been doing C5 with subcaps for about two months now and I've gotten pretty intimate with the Core Strongholds and Core Garrisons. My fleet is larger than what you're suggesting (20 characters at about 10m skill points apiece) but the same concepts I use apply just as easily to what you're thinking.

Battleships are great, but mass is a major concern. You don't want to be putting your static WH to half-mass just by going back and forth once--At least for me, I don't want to impede other people using the static chain for pvp, logistics, or farming. If that isn't a concern for you, then go full-tilt with the battleships. If it's a problem, then run HACs or T3s.

I personally run Ishtars because drone dps can be projected out to 90km no problem. The battleships in the last wave on a Core Garrison will orbit at 80-90km and the battleships on the second wave of Core Strongholds will orbit between 60-70km. If you're at the far end of your falloff range trying to hit those ships, you're going to spend a *lot* of extra time per site. With Gardes I run three Omnidirectional Tracking Links with Optimal Range scripts since my Ishtar pilots only have HAC IV. Additionally, while Cruisers have a lot smaller buffer than the Battleships, their signature radius is so much smaller that they tank comparably for non-escalations.

~~~

I will say that I've now successfully used two T1 Logistics ships to rep through both C5 sites. The margin for error is smaller than my previous Logistics adventures (Nestors), but it's still quite comfortable. Using remote cap transfers from drone boats to your Logistics ships is just a really efficient way to run it. You can do the same thing using a Legion or a Tengu with the remote repair subsystem--Their throughput is insane when supplied with cap.

I've got more to say but it is laaaaaaaaaaaate.

[gomeler]

I had considered Ishtars, but I was worried CCP was going to hit them with a nerfbat, given their popularity. For now I am training up 6x Vexor Navy Issue pilots and 2x Osprey pilots on a ~40 day skill plan. The goal will be to start in a C3 and faceroll sites while I get up to speed on multiboxing two pilot types and 8 in total.

Not sure what will be next. Ishtars would work, as I'm training drone skills, and your point about sig tanking would be pretty useful. The battleship hull I'm contemplating now is the Hyperion. 125mbit drone bandwidth, decent rail dps, option to use a flight of lights/mediums for frigate killing, decent amount of buffer, and stupid cheap. My current fit is ~260m, entire fleet will run just over 1.5b but pump nearly 6x the DPS of my Vargur.

Good idea on feeding cap from the DPS boats to the logi. Also thanks for the info re: T1 logi.

Are your Ishtars armor or shield fit? Guessing armor, or you're running a super tight 2 slot shield tank?

[Mosg2]

Armor tanked with only two DDAs, but I'm buying a second fleet of shield fit Ishtars running Geckos to see if it goes faster than the sentry boats.

The cap transfer option also allows you to use your mid slots for ReSebo and and projected ECCM. This makes your setup a lot more resilient to getting jumped--Not cap escalated (happened to me yesterday) but at least you can put up a good fight to a fleet landing on you.

[Crayonbox]

haha are you the one that got double dreads dropped on you?
there was a video of it on youtube posted on reddit.

[Mosg2]

Oh yeah, that was me.

[Crayonbox]

haha. im guessing you make a lot of isk doing htat?
i tried my stint in a c3 and c4 and wasnt all too much fun. the lack of local was too unnerving and complacency got me killed too many times haha. i guess if youre doing day trips into other c5s to do their sites, it might be much better though, especially since most peopel dont have the numbers to take on a gang that size on the spot. mostly do things like bubble you and cap escalate on you is the most they can accomplish.

[gomeler]

Figured that was you, as I can't imagine there are that many people multiboxing an Ishtar fleet of that size. I look forward to your results with the shield fit gecko herd. Please post, if you don't mind.

Being part of one of those smaller gangs that roams w-space, I don't frequently see fleets of PvE ships. The vast majority of the time, we find solo runners, which make for an easy gank. If we ran across a 20 pilot Ishtar fleet running a C5, we'd likely stay the hell away, and maybe try to snag a straggler in warping between sites. 20 Ishtars is a whole lot of focused DPS, easily enough to alpha all but brick tanked T3s and battleships.

[Crayonbox]

yea i actually do day roams into wh with my fleet. 5 - 10 bombers depending on how i feel and 1 scanning ship. i usually take 1 scanner go around poking around and when i find juicy targets, bomb the crap out of them.

ive also been doing "solo" roams with talwars and kestrels. actually really fun haha.

[brownish]

I had pretty decent success running C5s with 5 RR domis. I used a click bar which had buttons for broadcasting armor and controlling all clients but the one being primaried. That, combined with watch list set up in cap chain order and broadcast window allowed me to run sites in about 10 minutes. However, the domis are just too slow and get ganked too easily. This setup worked wonders in our old C2-HS/C4 hole but not so well in our C5-C5 hole.

I'm currently training my fleet up for 3 gecko ishtars and 2 basilisks for a similar system. I'll be running 1 ishtar and 4 myrmidons with corp logi support until then.

Word from the wise, don't multibox domis in C5s. They work well but they WILL get ganked. PVE RR domis are super easy but the second one of them gets jammed or neuted out your whole fleet goes down.

[gomeler]

I figured anything would get dropped in a C5. I however assumed that you more than easily made up the losses to come out ISK positive. That's why was sticking with T1 hulls(insurance) and non-blingy mods.

[Mosg2]

If you're looking to be as cheap as possible, then you can't go wrong with 8 VNIs and 2 Augorors. It'll take perhaps 15-20 minutes a site, but you'll be putting less than 2 bil on the field.

[gomeler]

Given my initial setup of 6x VNI + 2x Osprey, I just might add more DPS pilots to this if this proves to be a profitable and enjoyable venture. Took the DPS pilots out for a spin today in noobships, and I had a fun time chuckling while running a Serpentis Hideaway. Seems at least for the DPS pilots that fleet broadcasts using a primary 'FC' is sufficient for non-drone damage, meanwhile drone assist works as expected. I think the logi pilots will just rely on watchlist + a little bit of buffer to coordinate reps.

Any reason you suggest armor tanking the VNIs? Not sure if the sig bloom is that big of an issue, or if you need the mids for omnis and such.

[LordsServant]

Given my initial setup of 6x VNI + 2x Osprey, I just might add more DPS pilots to this if this proves to be a profitable and enjoyable venture. Took the DPS pilots out for a spin today in noobships, and I had a fun time chuckling while running a Serpentis Hideaway. Seems at least for the DPS pilots that fleet broadcasts using a primary 'FC' is sufficient for non-drone damage, meanwhile drone assist works as expected. I think the logi pilots will just rely on watchlist + a little bit of buffer to coordinate reps.

Any reason you suggest armor tanking the VNIs? Not sure if the sig bloom is that big of an issue, or if you need the mids for omnis and such.

I'm not sure why he was initially suggesting that, but I know a thing or two about wspace and fitting ships. ;)

Sig Bloom is a bit of an issue with sleeper missiles, and more importantly - EHP.

VNIs get rather pathetic EHP when shield tanked - with only 4 midslots and no resist bonus, you're in for a bad time.

Armor tanked, they get more EHP than any ishtar could ever hope to while keeping your midslots open for increased speed or application mods.

If you want to shield tank your ships, I suggest gilas, altho they're also rather squishy in terms of EHP, even in full tank fits.

[K'man]

If you're looking to be as cheap as possible, then you can't go wrong with 8 VNIs and 2 Augorors. It'll take perhaps 15-20 minutes a site, but you'll be putting less than 2 bil on the field.

I have been reading up on this site for a long time and I just registered today to ask a question or two. I've been multiboxing since 2007 with anywhere from 6-7 pilots. I've done mining, pvp, missions, some incursions (logistics), market manipulation and c1-c4 WHs. I've taken interest in multiboxing c5 sites and was wondering what is the fitting you use for the VNI and Augorors?

[gomeler]

I'm not sure why he was initially suggesting that, but I know a thing or two about wspace and fitting ships. ;)

Sig Bloom is a bit of an issue with sleeper missiles, and more importantly - EHP.

VNIs get rather pathetic EHP when shield tanked - with only 4 midslots and no resist bonus, you're in for a bad time.

Armor tanked, they get more EHP than any ishtar could ever hope to while keeping your midslots open for increased speed or application mods.

If you want to shield tank your ships, I suggest gilas, altho they're also rather squishy in terms of EHP, even in full tank fits.

Playing with EFT, I have a VNI shield fit with ~55k eHP and 208m sig, and a VNI armor fit with ~48k eHP and 135m sig. Both use 4 slot tanks and 3x T1 trimark/extenders. I've done RR Domis with weaker shield buffers(37k shield EHP vs 40k shield EHP on VNI) and we had no problem keeping them alive in C5s. Is there something I'm missing?

Hrm. So far things have been going well with the alts @ ~900k SP flying shield tanked Vexors with Curators/Valks in C3s. I plan on pillaging C3s until I can get their skills up a bit higher, in particular drone and hull skills.

Fortification Frontier Strongholds(my benchmark site) have been taking about 9-10 minutes to clear in a no weather C3. The clear times have been dropping dramatically as my targeting range and effective range with the Curators has increased. I think I'll see a big boost when I switch to VNIs, primarily for the hull tracking bonus, and the DPS increase from 3 to 5 curators. Running in a C3 magnetar was a good 'test', where I was able to 3 shot the weaker cruisers, and positively melt the battleships. Awakened Defenders are my only sore spot, they usually mandate a swap to mediums due to their orbiting at 15km and high EHP. Hopefully I can blap them in the VNI.

Anywho, curious if I'm missing something on shield vs armor in the C5. I've been having a terrific time playing with these alts. I really need to bring cloaky heavy tackle with me though. So far, a bomber(locked and nearly killed before it warped off), a tornado(warped at 120km, I left and ran a relic site in the same hole), and a stratios(locked, three volleys and it scooted away) have all shown up. I know I'll eventually get wrecked by someone, but it has been fun compared to solo running a marauder and being terrified when something popped up on dscan. I've been playing things safe by choosing isolated holes populated by bears, but having the attitude that any PvP experience will be good experience.