Software boxing in Wildstar not allowed?

[Lyonheart]

I was reading post on Reddit and found this in a list of things to know about Wildstar " I asked for a source and also tried to go the the wildstar site but I think its down. Allowing multiboixng but not the means to do it is not right lol. I guess we could hardware box it.



About Multiboxing: if you're doing it yourself without the use of 3rd party programs/bots/macros, it's allowed. One keypress for multiple characters is not allowed

[rfarris]

I just posted the same thing on ISBoxer which is probably the best place to discuss this issue.

As far as a source, it was mentioned on the "Nexus Report," a weekly "blue" vlog put out by Carmine. Search "Nexus Report" on youtube and view the one posted today.

[Lyonheart]

yea.. i watched it..guess i'll do it until i'm banned.. no way to box a fast paced action game without sending key presses at the same time. Unless they refund my 5 pre orders. This really bums me out! I think this kind of policy should be made public BEFORE pre-orders are live.

[keth]

Grrr, yes I thought someone posted that they stated it was allowed before? Thankfully I just got 2 copies. Guess I'll nix the plans to make two of the same class for ease of hotkey rotation and just go back to oldschool different keys for different abilities. Just as well probably, now I won't even be tempted to do more than have two boxes for just farming and leveling. Anything more is going to require serious macro setups in this game.

[Lyonheart]

i was doing 5 in beta before i got to large areas and got lagged out.. but i did 3 all the time and it was just as easy as WoW IMO. Between in game macros and keybindings/settings i was easily assisting.. IWT and following and getting lots of shit dead! But yea.. im doing 2 or 3 and going to put in for refunds on my other accounts I purchased. ( im probably not going to get my money back )

[Lyonheart]

I got my response


"Chris (WildStar Player Support)


May 28 15:48


Hi Travis,


Playing with more than one account at a time is allowed as long as you are individually controlling each account. However, if you plan to use a program to control each account simultaneously, with a single set of controls, then this is considered botting and would not be allowed.


Some players only consider the second definition as Multiboxing and if that is the case then Multiboxing would not be allowed. If you consider the broader definition, then there are some forms of Multiboxing that are allowed. It is the automating of gameplay that is against the rules.


Regards,


Chris
WildStar Support Team

[ebony]

they don't seem to understand what botting and Multiboxing game play is.

1) engine is running but there no one behind the wheel
2) there is someone behind the wheel

but its there game i could of told you this months ago they do something silly like that. its all about getting the cash out of players then changing the rules at the last min (why am scard wow will do it)


maybe its time to put a ticket in about "hardware boxing" thats not using 3rd software hehe!

[Kicksome]

It sounds like they are saying, it's ok to have multiple accounts, but you have to manually control each one.

One keypress for multiple characters is not allowed

That pretty much covers software and hardware.

[Ishar]

For some reason I'm reminded of the popsicle stick guy from eve online

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Lyonheart]

It sounds like they are saying, it's ok to have multiple accounts, but you have to manually control each one.

One keypress for multiple characters is not allowed

That pretty much covers software and hardware.

They only allow alt-tabbing is what it boils down to. I replied a few times and got responses that all said "do it the old school way". I told them that is neither practical or efficient, and in essence they are telling us not to multibox. In a fast paced action combat game.. not controlling all toons at once is not fun. And we do this because it is fun...ill post my replies so you guys can have fun picking it all apart.

Good news is they will refund my money on a few accounts ( im still going to try and box two or three.. just delay actions and use spread out macros.. if i get banned.. well i guess its back to WoW for me lol )

Also, forgive me if i sound like a total idiot in my replies.. i was frustrated and was just letting them now how i feel. all the while knowing it was going to accomplish nothing more than me feeling like i made my point hehe.


"""Hi Travis,


Playing with more than one account at a time is allowed as long as you are individually controlling each account. However, if you plan to use a program to control each account simultaneously, with a single set of controls, then this is considered botting and would not be allowed.


Some players only consider the second definition as Multiboxing and if that is the case then Multiboxing would not be allowed. If you consider the broader definition, then there are some forms of Multiboxing that are allowed. It is the automating of gameplay that is against the rules.


Regards,


Chris
WildStar Support Team



May 28, 2014 15:48

Ok.. so this is what i thought.. what is strange about this.. if carbine knows anything about multiboxing, especially in a fast paced action combat like Wildstar ( or other games such as WoW ) it is very impractical to "hardware box" using multiple computers. not only from a cost perspective. but a control perspective. SO you guys are basically saying you do not allow multiboxing, for all intents and purposes.


I purchased 5 delux version because i love his game.. but i have been boxing full groups since EQ1 and the newest software..such as ISboxer, is essential in making it even possible ( again from a practical point of view ).
Also.. one key press per account at the same time is the "norm" in the industry.. so i had no idea that i would not be able to box a full group in this great game.. using the very well known multiboxing softwares that are out there.


Just to note.. i am not a PvP player.. i do it for PvE.. to ease the pain of harder open world content/grinding and having to wait around for groups ( i do enjoy grouping as well ).I would understand both PvP restrictions and more then one action per keypress..but you guys stand to lose multi thousands of dollars per month by making a stance on a playstyle that is harmless ( if non PvP ) it kind of boggles the mind..coming from a business man.



May 28, 2014 20:52
User photo Jeff
NCSOFT
Greetings Travis,


I have played games which are more lenient with their rules in regards to playing in the manor you are speaking of, so I understand the appeal. WildStar was not intended to be played that way, in where you are basically playing one character and the others respond via software. Playing that way is a violation of the rules and may result in multiple account termination. I multibox two accounts on one computer all the time when I QA Test WildStar. I pretty much never leave home without a buddy. If your computer can handle it, its the way to go. What I do is auto follow and then make the screens small or play on multiple monitors. When I need a heal, I just move my mouse to the other screen. That is perfectly OK. But at no point did any additional software achieve that goal. In that way, no rules were broken and I got double the rewards. Protostar looooooves multiboxers! I hope that you are able to find tons of enjoyment with the content available in the manor it is intended to be played. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us.


Regards,


Jeff
WildStar Support Team



May 29, 2014 05:42

Would it be possible to get a refund on 3 of my 5 accounts that i paid for? there is no way i will be able to box 5 accounts "the old school way". This is a policy that should have been made public BEFORE pre-orders im my opinion. I mean if you guys really didn't want people multiboxing your game you should have left out follow and assist.. those are the two ingredients that would lead someone like myself to believe that I would be able to play the game "my way".


To say its not "intended" to be played that way implies that it is "wrong" or cheating.. and thats where you guys are mistaken. Someone who boxes using software has an advantage.. but its the same advantage a well coordinated group might have...only the boxer is paying for the privilege to run a group by himself. Its not "botting" and it IS one person in controll of all his accounts.


I would like to hear from whoever wants this game to be successful..who wants to make as much money as possible without compromising for "actual" botting/botters. I mean i can imagine a board meeting with investors.. Dev says " Hey we have many thousands of players who would like to buy multiple copies of our game AND pay for multiple monthly subscriptions" ..investors" REALLY? WOW! thats GREAT!" Dev says " Well we will not allow it.. they use software to control the accounts and we feel thats cheating..like bots kind of:" Investors : Umm.. are they behind the keyboard actually control the characters? in other words they don't have some macro program that they hit a key and go afk? " Dev" They control all accounts at the keyboard but they send one button and all the toons do an action at the same time" Investor " You mean like if a group focus fires all at the same time..but it was separate players?" Dev " yea. kind of like that.but its one dude.. and thats not fair!" Investors " Umm.. whats the problem?.. are you crazy?"


Anyway sorry for the rant..knowing that i wont be able to enjoy this game the way i like to play MMOs really bums me out.. makes me feel like im wrong in some way and i think that in itself is wrong.. so can I have my hard earned money back for 3 of the 5 accounts.. I will TRY and box two toons like you said. separately,pocket healer type thing i guess.



May 29, 2014 13:56
User photo Chris
NCSOFT
Hello Travis,


Thank you for contacting us.


We can certainly refund your purchase from our website. Please know that issuing a refund does have some consequences if you have already applied your serial code to your account. Since players can only have one WildStar account per NC Account, refunding your purchase will permanently ban the WildStar account on your NC Account. If you would like to purchase a new code and play in the future, you will need to create a new NC Account using a different email address in order to apply the code.


If you still wish to obtain a refund, please provide the following information in your reply:


• The reason you are requesting a refund. (e.g. technical reason, found game cheaper, double billed, changed mind on purchase, unhappy with gameplay, intended as gift, or other (please specify))
• Your WildStar purchase Order ID provided in the receipt of the purchase(s)
• The e-mail address you used when making the purchase
• Credit/Debit Card: the last four digits (only the last four, please) of the card
• PayPal®: the Invoice ID from your PayPal® payment history
• Your billing zip code or postal code


We look forward to your reply.I am transferring your ticket to our Payments Team. Someone will be in contact with you as soon as possible.


Thanks!


Chris
WildStar Support Team"""


May 29, 2014 14:08
User photo Travis Watson
Awaiting your response

[ebony]

like all i read in that from that duma** supports staff is the "3rd party software" is playing the chars you. and you can not do that in our game.

so take out the software.




For some reason I'm reminded of the popsicle stick guy from eve online

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk


http://forums.riftgame.com/attachments/pvp-warfronts/12520-stop-multiboxing-least-pvp-eve_multiboxing_1.jpg

this?

[Ishar]

Yeah. While feasible it also stands as an example of the logical inconsistencies of their policy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Khatovar]

They only allow alt-tabbing is what it boils down to. I replied a few times and got responses that all said "do it the old school way". I told them that is neither practical or efficient, and in essence they are telling us not to multibox. In a fast paced action combat game.. not controlling all toons at once is not fun. And we do this because it is fun...ill post my replies so you guys can have fun picking it all apart.

Good news is they will refund my money on a few accounts ( im still going to try and box two or three.. just delay actions and use spread out macros.. if i get banned.. well i guess its back to WoW for me lol )

Also, forgive me if i sound like a total idiot in my replies.. i was frustrated and was just letting them now how i feel. all the while knowing it was going to accomplish nothing more than me feeling like i made my point hehe.


yea.. i watched it..guess i'll do it until i'm banned.. no way to box a fast paced action game without sending key presses at the same time. Unless they refund my 5 pre orders. This really bums me out! I think this kind of policy should be made public BEFORE pre-orders are live.

Please stop discussing how you are intentionally going to violate the rules of a game simply because you don't agree with their policy. This has always been against the rules here.


To say its not "intended" to be played that way implies that it is "wrong" or cheating.. and thats where you guys are mistaken.

This is their game, they have every right to dictate what they intended. There is no "norm in the industry," multiboxers have always been a niche group and over the past year or so there has been push back against us in several games. It has always been suggested that when looking to start boxing in a game, even if there has been previous acceptance of multiboxing, the player should contact support and get an up-to-date greenlight before investing in multiple game copies.

I understand it's a lot of money to blow and you're disappointed, but that doesn't change the rules here. Adamantly stating how you're going to do it anyway portrays multiboxers as a bunch of spoiled brats and is only adding fuel to the anti-boxing fire, which makes it even easier for the next game down the pipe to tell us to piss off.

[keth]

If he's simply moving a mouse from one screen to another to click quickly, this is in fact using 3rd party control software afaik...most games do not allow two instances without some special workarounds. But he's implying the only allowed method is multiple computers/keyboards/mice. It's ludicrous that they think they can make the distinction at that point, and he seems to not even think twice that a single mouse is just as much a "cheat". My bet is that they can't/won't regulate the "macros" that are packaged with every gaming keyboard and mouse available, which is in effect more of a hack than sending key presses to two windows and I'm certain I've seen a few popular twitch streams using to automate ability rotations. So in the end I guess we attempt to play by the rules as much as is reasonable and wait and see if they really are banning for every 3rd party type assistance.

I guess I'll be doing the old school pocket healer on laptop. I always thought I was better at that anyway. Now the question is if I plug a gamepad in there and put it next to the main keyboard, is that too close to the speed of having one keyboard with hotkeys going to the other screens. Guessing it's ok since it's hardware but can you prove that's what you're using.

[keth]

Oh and I'll be rolling my oldschool carpal tunnel boxing gimpness on Caretaker server with a few friends if anyone wants to come commiserate.

[Lyonheart]

Please stop discussing how you are intentionally going to violate the rules of a game simply because you don't agree with their policy. This has always been against the rules here.



This is their game, they have every right to dictate what they intended. There is no "norm in the industry," multiboxers have always been a niche group and over the past year or so there has been push back against us in several games. It has always been suggested that when looking to start boxing in a game, even if there has been previous acceptance of multiboxing, the player should contact support and get an up-to-date greenlight before investing in multiple game copies.

I understand it's a lot of money to blow and you're disappointed, but that doesn't change the rules here. Adamantly stating how you're going to do it anyway portrays multiboxers as a bunch of spoiled brats and is only adding fuel to the anti-boxing fire, which makes it even easier for the next game down the pipe to tell us to piss off.


I think i admitted before i pasted my dialog with them that i might have sounded idiotic.. once you hit enter you can not edit or retract.. yes.. I was obviously pissed off..disappointed..butt hurt..alll the above.. buts its their logic that is effecting my playstyle that i disagree with and had to make my point.

Im sorry for saying i was going to cheat anyway..

[rfarris]

> When I need a heal, I just move my mouse to the other screen...

I find this part interesting. It looks like you could use VideoFX to - at least - dual-box to bring a healer. Even some dps if you set up your VideoFX to have your abilities for the slave nearby so that you could click-click.

[Kicksome]

It sounds like the same policy guildwars 2 has:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first#post1532762



And as stated above, you may not program your keyboard to perform functions on more than one account at a time.
a. For example, if you press W on your keyboard to move forward, a single character on a single account should move forward. The keystroke or mouse click should not perform functions on more than one account.

[Lax]

It sounds like the same policy guildwars 2 has:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first#post1532762



And as stated above, you may not program your keyboard to perform functions on more than one account at a time.
a. For example, if you press W on your keyboard to move forward, a single character on a single account should move forward. The keystroke or mouse click should not perform functions on more than one account.



They can't actually determine whether you're pressing one button to move two guys at the same time, or pressing two buttons to move two guys at the same time. Or if you're using two physical keyboards instead of one. It really doesn't matter how you achieve playing them together.

So I don't think the distinction matters -- by having the rule this way anyone with multiple accounts is immediately suspect, will likely get reported just for having multiple accounts, and will indeed be at risk of being banned. With a rule like this, the only way to multibox is actually to not play the accounts together, but instead use a second account as a mule. The rule might as well be that "you can have multiple accounts but only for storing items".

They allow "having multiple accounts" and "launching the client multiple times" and therefore they claim "multiboxing is allowed under this broad definition". But when they are itching to ban for what is "technically allowed", you might as well hack, bot, exploit, cheat, etc in this game instead of multibox because you're less likely to get reported for doing any of those things. I mean, it's pretty obvious to see someone with multiple accounts, but most people won't recognize bots and hacks.

Sad, but their rules. Sorry for promoting this pile of crap.

[keth]

It sounds like the same policy guildwars 2 has:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first#post1532762



And as stated above, you may not program your keyboard to perform functions on more than one account at a time.
a. For example, if you press W on your keyboard to move forward, a single character on a single account should move forward. The keystroke or mouse click should not perform functions on more than one account.




Yeah that's what I found odd as well. You could do as much with mouse pass through and click bars as you can with keybinds. Unless you have a serious need for simultaneous key press. but would a csr observing be able to tell the difference.

[keth]

They can't actually determine whether you're pressing one button to move two guys at the same time, or pressing two buttons to move two guys at the same time. Or if you're using two physical keyboards instead of one. It really doesn't matter how you achieve playing them together.

So I don't think the distinction matters -- by having the rule this way anyone with multiple accounts is immediately suspect, will likely get reported just for having multiple accounts, and will indeed be at risk of being banned. With a rule like this, the only way to multibox is actually to not play the accounts together, but instead use a second account as a mule. The rule might as well be that "you can have multiple accounts but only for storing items".

They allow "having multiple accounts" and "launching the client multiple times" and therefore they claim "multiboxing is allowed under this broad definition". But when they are itching to ban for what is "technically allowed", you might as well hack, bot, exploit, cheat, etc in this game instead of multibox because you're less likely to get reported for doing any of those things. I mean, it's pretty obvious to see someone with multiple accounts, but most people won't recognize bots and hacks.

Sad, but their rules. Sorry for promoting this pile of crap.

yeah exactly what concerns me. I'd be more likely reported and suspected for playing by their rules and being any good at it, than if I went and deliberately coded in delays to have the second account act more like a bad two box setup from eq 1 days. It's irritating but I'm going to guess it's not something they're gunning to enforce until and unless they find it being a big issue in PVP or whatever. It'll crimp my style a bit but I'm just going to make sure nothing happens too in-sync and wait and see for awhile.

[Slashem]

So this sucks glad i just tossed out cash on three accounts....

[Lyonheart]

Yea at this point i will just be dragging a long a healer for emergency heals/rezes ( i think anyone can rez in this game though ).

Aside from my extreme disappointment of not being able to box this game like we do, Wildstar is the best MMO since Vanilla WoW IMO.. it is super crazy content and feature rich.. the most at launch than any MMO before it. And its all really cool shit.. not just lots of useless content. So im playing it no matter what.

Now im not sure how long i will last not being able to box a full group, ill have plenty of time to figure that out before WoD comes out. TESO is the first MMO that i have ever played that i have not at least two boxed.. and i have loved it ( aside from some random rollbacks and bugs ) But i will always be a boxer at heart.

[keth]

Yea at this point i will just be dragging a long a healer for emergency heals/rezes ( i think anyone can rez in this game though ).

Aside from my extreme disappointment of not being able to box this game like we do, Wildstar is the best MMO since Vanilla WoW IMO.. it is super crazy content and feature rich.. the most at launch than any MMO before it. And its all really cool shit.. not just lots of useless content. So im playing it no matter what.

Now im not sure how long i will last not being able to box a full group, ill have plenty of time to figure that out before WoD comes out. TESO is the first MMO that i have ever played that i have not at least two boxed.. and i have loved it ( aside from some random rollbacks and bugs ) But i will always be a boxer at heart.

I agree but it looks like there's enough advantages to 2 boxing to be worth it. You get those social coin awards, you have access to extra paths that open up new options with a complementary path, you can take extra gathering skills for cash, you can do higher level content and bounties at a faster pace than you otherwise could, which should significantly increase leveling speed, etc. The auto aim and auto move to target features make it pretty doable. Also there's some kind of spell queuing which I didn't experiment much with, but if it's any good it will let you double tap to make for less switching between windows/keys/whatever.

[propagandalf]

Ya, I'm going to duo-box.

[Lyonheart]

I will two box it as wel.. just kind of scared lol. But a pocket healer ..even if all i do is tab over to heal now and then. I will be two boxing for sure. If i get banned doing it "their way"..that will suck.. but i've got to try