cpu and mb upgrade ideas

[CD82]

so im giving a lot of serious thought to doing a mb and cpu upgrade..
right now I have a p8z8-vpro mb and intel i7 2600k 16 gigs of memory..
my current video card Is a EVGA NVidia GeForce GTX 680 FTW...
newegg has some free shipping so i ordered of the same memory i have which makes it 32 gigs..
im running two SSDs one of them has windows installed and the other one is for my game..
i run 3 to 5 toons on this system im just feeling its an upgrade time.

any suggestions or ideas will be helpful

[MiRai]

The 2600K is still a pretty decent CPU (especially if yours is OC'd) and the only reason I upgraded mine to a 4930K was because I run some ridiculous video settings and my CPU was becoming a bottleneck (I also added a third GPU). I actually kept my 2600K system and use it as my secondary computer (replaced an old Q9550).

If you want today's equivalent of a 2600K CPU then you're looking at a 4770K, but I don't think it warrants an upgrade unless you are sure that the CPU is your bottleneck. If you really want a new 6-core upgrade, then the 4930K is it, but next year Intel is releasing their X99 chipset and will be selling 8-core CPUs at the high-end consumer level -- We're still probably about a year away from that happening, though.

Also, more memory isn't going to do anything for you unless you're running out of it, and I doubt you are since you say you're only running 3 clients (I realize you've already ordered it). In fact, the more DIMM slots you fill up with memory, the less stable an overclock can become (or it may be harder to hit certain speeds) -- Again, only important if you actually OC your system.

Whether you use ISBoxer or not, this page has a good way to identify any bottlenecks in your system:
http://isboxer.com/wiki/HOWTO:Tweak_your_framerate#Identifying_framerate_b ottlenecks

[CD82]

i dont oc just not a fan of it myself. the memory was a good idea i thought and a good deal might have been a mistake...
so no big game changer by upgrading to the 4770k... ive not bought anything yet except for the memory im ready for an upgrade.

for the 4930k what motherboard do you recomend ? do you like your evga i think it is mirai?

[MiRai]

i dont oc just not a fan of it myself. the memory was a good idea i thought and a good deal might have been a mistake...
so no big game changer by upgrading to the 4770k... ive not bought anything yet except for the memory im ready for an upgrade.
The 4770K is an upgrade from the 2600K, but it's probably only 15% on average.


for the 4930k what motherboard do you recomend ? do you like your evga i think it is mirai?
No, I would not recommend my motherboard. The Asus Rampage IV (not the Black) has been around for awhile and I'd probably recommend that one, but if you don't OC then you're not going to be using anywhere near its full potential and you'd essentially just be spending $400+ on a motherboard to hold components in place. If that's the case, then I'd look for a cheaper X79 motherboard.

[CD82]

ill be totaly honest here bud the oc stuff kinda scares me on stuff i would be scared to toast something..
i love asus products the last mb i got was doa i sent it back an just used the cpu on my current board.
i was building a newer system and got two damaged products and kinda pissed me off.
so i got some money back and did a half ass upgrade (in my opinion) to my current set up..
ive not been very thrilled with the set up..

[CD82]

i was looking at something like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1465539
but since its a 4770 and maybe only 15% upgrade ill pass i think

[CD82]

MiRai why not the black edition because i dont overclock?? or is it a bad board???

[MiRai]

ill be totaly honest here bud the oc stuff kinda scares me on stuff i would be scared to toast something..
i love asus products the last mb i got was doa i sent it back an just used the cpu on my current board.
i was building a newer system and got two damaged products and kinda pissed me off.
so i got some money back and did a half ass upgrade (in my opinion) to my current set up..
ive not been very thrilled with the set up..
Overclocking isn't for everyone. Stability testing can be a tedious process which a lot of people half-ass and then end up wondering why they get blue screens or artifacts.

As for having things be DOA... Well, that's part of building your own system. ;)


i was looking at something like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1465539
but since its a 4770 and maybe only 15% upgrade ill pass i think
I mean... 15% is just an estimated guess and you could most likely pull at least 15% more out of your current setup if you were into overclocking; but you still haven't said where your bottleneck is, and everything in your current machine, as it stands right now, should have no issues running 3 clients.

What is making you feel like it's time for an upgrade?


MiRai why not the black edition because i dont overclock?? or is it a bad board???
Because it's the second most expensive X79 motherboard there is on the market coming in at $500 and it was built specifically for extreme overclocking. If you want to spend money just to spend money, then I could use some new video cards.

Get something that's going to run your components at stock speeds like a Gigabyte UP4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128562), ASRock Extreme6 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157289), or an MSI GD45 Plus (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130681) -- I've heard nothing but good things about ASRock.

[CD82]

Well this setup i have now was just kinda tossed together.
I had ordered the current cpu memory mb and case.
The case and mb had came damaged so i sent it back.
Kept the cpu and memory used my old mb.
Put the money up i had got back waited.
And ordered the video card i have now.
Which i had read some good reviews on.

Ive not been vey happy with the setup.
And im ready to build something new.
I woud like to use the current video card.
And maybe the memory from this set up also..

You mention just new cards i got this one.
Back in march should i have got something different?

[CD82]

when I get home I will test for bottle necks on my system and let you know MiRai

ok ive got this report done where do i need to post it ?


ive noticed also while playing a single account while in a raid.
Ill have a big drop I frame rates with this current card..
and my settings are not high they are all set on good...

and one reason why I want to build a new rig is so I can.
use this system for editing my photos I take with my d3100

[MiRai]

If you edit your last post, then the forum doesn't act as if there's been an update to the thread. I just so happened to check this thread and noticed your edit.


ive noticed also while playing a single account while in a raid.
Ill have a big drop I frame rates with this current card..
and my settings are not high they are all set on good...
I linked to a page on the ISBoxer Wiki which shows you how to check for a bottleneck because saying that you have a drop in FPS during a raid encounter where there's a lot going on doesn't actually mean that you have a bottleneck at all.

EXHIBIT A - http://i.imgur.com/qIwi8la.jpg

I'm in Stormwind and there are a lot of people around, nothing exciting is happening, and you can see my FPS is only in the mid 30s. My GPUs are only using about 40% of their processing power and my CPU is only using 14%.

EXHIBIT B - http://i.imgur.com/1D7IfGK.jpg

I'm in Elwynn Forest and there is nobody in rendering view, nothing exciting is happening, and you can see my FPS is now at a solid 60 (capped). My GPUs are pushing twice as hard as they were in Stormwind and my CPU is still doing practically nothing.

Problem: Why am I at such a low frame rate in Stormwind when I have much more GPU power available to use? Shouldn't I be at 60 FPS in Stormwind, just like in Elwynn?

Answer: No. I don't actually have a bottleneck in Stormwind regardless of the fact that my FPS is low. It's just the way the game engine acts when there are a lot of players in the same area (e.g. a raid or a populated city).

I'm not trying to stop you from building a new computer, I'm just trying to educate you on the situation at hand; because you may end up spending $2,000 on a new machine and have the exact same issue you're seeing right now with your current setup because of the way that the game engine handles lot of playable characters in one single area and causes a drop in FPS.

EDIT: If you want a new computer, then by all means, build a new computer. Honestly, I try to find ways to spend more money on my computer every single freakin' day.

[CD82]

well I started this post for ideas for a new system or upgrades... everything is helpful and i thank you for your time for talking with me!!
and im looking into this newer stuff like the black edition I might even concider ocing some.
if not the black edition then the rampage right under it.. i will check into my logs and look at your links..

[CD82]

I wouldn't mind getting the black edition and getting into some overclocking... nothing major but hell newegg is out of stock of them....

[MiRai]

I wouldn't mind getting the black edition and getting into some overclocking... nothing major but hell newegg is out of stock of them....
The RIVE Black is going to be the most difficult board to get a hold of at the moment due to its demand and the fact that it was just released a week ago. If you can't wait for the RIVE Black, then you can overclock with any X79 motherboard.

[CD82]

Is the ASUS Rampage IV Extreme a nice board to get???
I can wait cause I have this system here... im looking at other options also

[MiRai]

Is the ASUS Rampage IV Extreme a nice board to get???
I can wait cause I have this system here... im looking at other options also
I know nothing about any other X79 board except for the one EVGA X79 Dark which I already own. My assumption would be that because Asus has a good reputation in the motherboard market and has always marketed their Rampage/ROG series boards as high-end, that the Rampage IV would be a good board (it would be my choice if the Black Edition didn't exist).

But like I said before, you can overclock on any X79 motherboard if that's what you're looking to do and you don't need a $400 motherboard to do it. High-end boards that cost $400 and up are boards that are going to have higher quality components to handle the increased voltage that the CPU needs, added voltage phases, higher quality on-board sound, bigger/better heatsinks, possibly a better UEFI BIOS with a ton of settings that no one will ever use, and so on; but they're for the purpose being able to fine tune your settings and really squeeze the absolute most performance out of your machine. These are boards that are used to set and break world records.

Honestly, at this point I feel like I'm trying to talk you out of buying the high-end board, but I'm really just trying to save you some money which can go toward other components (assuming you're on a budget). It's just out of the ordinary that you would want to buy the most expensive hardware to start overclocking when you had never overclocked in the past. If you do end up burning something up you're either going to be out a lot of money or you're going to be waiting quite some time for a replacement motherboard if you end up buying one that's back-ordered at the moment.

A lot of high-end motherboards will also let you tweak settings beyond what is considered safe because those who are trying to break records are running LN2 to keep their components at extreme temperatures.

The only reason I'm getting the RIVBE is because:


It has a perfect PCIe connector layout that fits my needs (although the RIVE has a very similar layout)
I'll be able to use 3-way SLI and still have an open PCIe 8x slot for any expansion card I want to throw in there (like this PCIe SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820785002) that I'm currently eye-balling)
Two extra SATA6 ports (although they may end up being crappy like most SATA ports that aren't native)
I've decided that I won't be upgrading to an 8-core Haswell-E in H2 2014 (unless something I'm doing absolutely warrants it), so I might as well make my current 6-core machine awesome
I got it for $70 less than what Newegg wanted to charge me
I'm a complete sucker for aesthetics
I'm an idiot who spends too much money on his computer


I'm just trying to lay it all out there because if you find that you don't want to overlock, well, you've just spent a lot of money on stock hardware when you could have saved some of it and put it toward a better video card like a GTX 780Ti or a the newest mystery GPU that nVidia has yet to reveal (as opposed to the GTX 770).

[CD82]

i honestly think my current card is good for another year or so it is less than a year old...
ive always wanted an rog board it was going to be my next build anyway.
ive got the chance to get a board i want and even though i might not overclock a ton.
im weird i like the way both boards look and to tinker with things..
i think that black board would look awsome in that white case that cooler master has...
i dont plan to break world records but i might want to tweek some settings.

i once had oced one video card long ago just a tiny bit to help with performce but nothing major..
im somewhat familure with ocing but i have not overlocked a whole lot of things .. i whouldnt just jump in and turn something way up!!!
an older asus mb i had came with this remote and it had a turbo mode i used it some but thats about it...

i like the way the rog boards look and especily this new one and ive always wanted to.
build a system with one and see how they do
ive also looked at couple asus other boards the gold x79 boards..
and also noticed they have the rampage gene micro atx board for 300 its also x79 board...

[pinotnoir]

Save your money on the MB and CPU upgrade and buy a better video card. That will give you more performance increase in gaming than going from a 2600k to 4770k. You have an unlocked chip and the latest MB's have super easy tools for overclocking them. Even with a stock fan you can get a boost in performance by taking advantage of your unlocked chip. Just up the speed a small amount and make sure your temps are ok. If you have an aftermarket cpu cooler you can go much higher. If you had an aftermarket my next question would be why are you not overclocking. These new motherboards and unlocked chips make it simple to overclock. In all honesty you are fine with the current system. If you have money to burn you could upgrade your video card and buy a better monitor for higher resolution.

[CD82]

i feel my monitors are fine they are Samsung SyncMaster SA550 27in and
the second monitor is a Samsung SyncMaster S23B550 23in.
and the current video card i have that i am running was suggested on the fourms here.. gtx 680 FTW 4gig
why dont i overclock? i do not trust this system enough to overclock..
the current motherboard has been through two builds.
it isnt all that new of a mb bought in june 2011.
and then on year later i got a mb and cpu to build a system for gaming.
the motherboard at that time i got was the asus armor plated sabertooth z77..
it came DOA!! along with the new case i had got. so i sent them both back
i also purchased the 2600k for the sabertooth board. the fan with it came DOA
so i just took the 2600k put it in my current board and used the fan off the i5 i have.

i am wanting to use this system for all my photos and photoshop work.
and build myself another system just for games..
i have not bought anything yet still giving some thought..

so now if i were to just get a video card maybe another ssd
and maybe h100i cpu cooler what card would yall suggest?

nvidia or ati is fine

[CD82]

and pinotnoir sorry if you are confused but im not going to be upgrading to the 4770k..
that was my first thought if i upgrade cpu and mb ill be getting the 4930K with the asus rampage IV black edition..

[pinotnoir]

That CPU and MB is a very expensive upgrade for a small gain in performance. I would recommend looking up some comparison reviews on the amount of performance you are gaining with that upgrade. Unless you have money to burn I would put it into a better card. The new AMD 290 cards are the best bang for the buck at $399. You can go higher to 500-700 cards but the gain just does not pay out for the extra money in my opinion. I have the Corsair H80i cooler with a 3770k processor and Asus P8 Z77 Pro V motherboard and my chip runs great at 4.5ghz. That cooler is amazing keeping my cpu around 40C with 11 Eve Online games open and all my other applications running on the other monitor. The Asus Rampage is an amazing board. Having purchased a Rampage II years ago I just cannot justify the price when the more affordable boards do just about everything I need without spending hundreds more.

Bump that CPU you have up with some conservative overclocking and you should be happy.

[Ualaa]

I haven't looked at the 4930K chips.
A few years back, I upgraded to a 3930K based system.

At that point, the Asus Rampage IV was the top motherboard for the enthusiast (who would overclock and generally tweak for maximum effect).
I'd imagine the current Asus Rampage (or if its the same board entirely) would be a good board.

I personally wasn't going for more than a modest overclock.
I ended up going with the Sabertooth X79, as it had the features I wanted, and was a bit cheaper.
No point in paying for a premium overclock board, when not planning on using those extra features.




As far as clock speed goes, a 3930/4930 isn't that much different than a 2600/4770; when playing a small number of clients, you're not going to see major differences.

The big gain is going from 4 physical cores (+4 logical cores) to 6 physical cores (+6 logical cores).

If you're five boxing, that is a physical core per client (plus an extra core for anything else you have running in the background), which should be an improvement if CPU is at all a bottleneck.
Down the road, if you want to play more clients (whether in WoW or another game), having the better ratio of physical cores to game clients is a major benefit.

[CD82]

i am wondering how well the amd 290 video card will benifit with it having 512bit.
where my current card has only 256 bit.. and im wondering if i will gain better video performance from it
then what my current card does

maybe put the cpu and mb upgrade off untill the 8core comes out..

[MiRai]

i am wondering how well the amd 290 video card will benifit with it having 512bit.
where my current card has only 256 bit.. and im wondering if i will gain better video performance from it
then what my current card does
That's a tough call because my GTX 580s have a nice 384-bit memory bus, and one of the problems I had with the GTX 680s was that they only used a 256-bit memory bus. When benched against the AMD 7xxx cards, the lower memory bus seemed to be an issue at really high resolutions. There was also a lot of complaints from multiple hardware communities at the time about the GTX 660 because it only came with a 128-bit 192-bit bus which is pretty weak -- The GTX 760, on the other hand, comes with a 256-bit bus.

Now, I would guess that most people that multibox are playing with all of their clients in either 1920x1080, 1680x1050, or a very similar resolution, but you have to take that number, multiply it together, and then multiply it by the number of accounts you're playing and that's how many pixels you're trying to push down a single memory bus.

AMD cards have always had a wide memory bus on them because Eyefinity is capable of running five (or six?) monitors at once, whereas, nVidia's Surround only works across three monitors, but I've always stuck with nVidia cards myself because I like what their drivers allow me to do.

There are other factors that come into play like foreground/background FPS, video settings, and whatever else, but I think when I upgrade again I'm personally going to stick with a 384-bit memory bus or better -- That's just me, though.

[CD82]

hmm so it might not hurt to try the 512 bus.. i just run two monitors
now when you say (I like what their drivers allow me to do.) do you tweak them or what can you explain a bit more please?

this current card is the first nvidia card i have owend in a long time.
i have always been an amd card fan this 680 is nice but.
i might make the switch back to amd and tryout there R9 290 card..

as far as the creators of the card when i ran my amd cards Sapphire was they way to go..
but im hearing good thing about the Asus amd cards would they work better with my Asus MB??
im really curious if this is going to help me perform a bit better both monitors i run are 1920X1080..
when i run just two accounts both monitors are full screen..
but when i run 3 to 5 i have the window layouts set small..

still trying to find the right path here to go i see some different options
get a new card and liquid cooler now and wait and get a new mb and 8 core cpu next year
with my set up now i have ran 5 but ive not really checked cpu load like with task manager an such..

[MiRai]

now when you say (I like what their drivers allow me to do.) do you tweak them or what can you explain a bit more please?
It means I can use third-party tools like NVidia Inspector to tweak a bunch of settings that I normally wouldn't be able to through most games' video options. I know that AMD has similar tools, but because of however they develop their drivers, AMD users don't have the same options.

With third-part tools I have access to:


Forcing SGSSAA (my favorite thing in the whole wide world)
Forcing FXAA (NVidia-only technology)
Forcing higher levels of MSAA/Anisotropic Filtering/Texture Filtering/Ambient Occlusion
Force on/off VSync
Force SLI in games that don't officially support it
Adjust the FPS limiter
Adjust the GPU's power management
And more


The above list is just an example and what's available really depends on the game, the engine that it was built with, and the API(s) it uses. Some of that stuff is available through the basic NVidia Control Panel, but some of it definitely requires a third-party tool. A lot of it is pretty experimental, but I love tinkering with things like this to really get the absolute best visuals my hardware can handle. For the most part, this is while playing games solo since forcing settings to be enabled beyond what the game's settings allow can easily drop your performance in large amounts, but that's why I always try to have the best GPUs that I can afford. ;)

[CD82]

ok got ya i understand now
now in one of your screen shots in your new build post i do thin it was the one.
you had i guess an addon that showed your cpu temps is that something you created with lua?
or is there an addon like that out there on curse or wow matrix?

hmm wonder if i might tinker with something like that with this card i have now?

[MiRai]

ok got ya i understand now
now in one of your screen shots in your new build post i do thin it was the one.
you had i guess an addon that showed your cpu temps is that something you created with lua?
or is there an addon like that out there on curse or wow matrix?

hmm wonder if i might tinker with something like that with this card i have now?
It's MSI Afterburner (http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm) with certain properties selected to show up in the OSD. Not all games play nice with it, especially if you're using Inner Space, but WoW does happen to work well with it.

[CD82]

ok thank you very much for the tool info..

maybe i can get some other people to chime in on the amd card r 290..
the 512 bit has me very curious im sure its a nice upgrade from my video card.
and i would hope it would increase my performance some

[Kicksome]

I get much better performance on a i7-4930K OC to 4.0 ghz with a GTX 680 and a raid 0 2x250 gig (samsung evo) SSD setup. Just 2 drives total in the machine in raid 0.

Than a i7-3930K overclocked to 4.2 with a GTX 690 (fastest bench marked card on the nvidia site, even faster than titan) and a single dedicate gaming SSD.

Both have 32 gigs memory.

I'm starting to think the Raid 0 SSD makes a decent difference with tons of wow's open.

Just a note - the i7-4930K uses a different socket, so you can't just pop it in your existing motherboard. It can also use up to 64 gigs memory.

[CD82]

Just a note - the i7-4930K uses a different socket, so you can't just pop it in your existing motherboard. It can also use up to 64 gigs memory

yes im well aware about this thanks for the tip though!! it is a 2011 socket
which if i go this route i will be getting a different board..

and i may very well wait till after the new year ive not made a decision yet..

[CD82]

well im close on making a decision on what to get for right now..
I think ill just get video card and another ssd as to what card yet I do not know

possibly the amd card

[pinotnoir]

The non reference amd 290's should be out soon. They will have better coolers and be much more silent verses the reference version.

[CD82]

im not in much hurry I could wait have any idea when soon could be though??

[MiRai]

I don't think there are any release dates set, but they're expected to hit sometime in January. AMD cards are becoming incredibly difficult to get a hold of at the moment because of all the BTC and LTC miners so, I'd assume you might have a hard time finding those aftermarket ones after they are released as well (since it's likely they will be in limited quantities).