What Players make money from wow and how?

[Sam DeathWalker]

Is anyone making any real life money from wow, in a ligit fashion? Seems that this Swifty guy is making something: http://www.twitch.tv/swifty and this guy seems to make a LOT from video gaming but I am not sure what he does: http://www.machinima.com/affiliates. I am thinking that if I can kill Galleon solo box I want to somehow get some cash from the video; any ideas?

[zenga]

It's all about your CPM, or how much money you get per view. Some youtubers get into a larger organisation such as machinima, some stay solo. Some people get as much as 3$ per 1k viewers, some won't even get a fraction of that. It all depends about the advertisers and your content. That swifty channel that you linked is one of the biggest and longest youtubers/streamers for WoW, and he makes 100,000's of dollars.

Killing galeon solo as a boxer might get some attention, but frankly no one will give a shit. You might get a few k views, heck maybe even 50k views, and all you will be able to do is buy a pack of cigarettes and maybe a beer with the profit.

If _you_ want to start making money, then your best bet is to stream with a webcam on, sitting in your leather hot pants and have some half naked chicks dancing behind you. And release some videos on youtube.

[luxlunae]

I agree with zenga, I just don't think there is enough of an interest in multiboxing to become a reasonably paid streamer. Someone who knows more can correct me if I'm wrong, but to make real money you have to have people coming back to your twitch again and again, not visiting for one-off things like a galleon kill.

[MiRai]

To make decent money off of streaming you need one, or more, of the following (list not complete and in no particular order):

Be amazing at what you're doing
Be interesting and unrepetitive
Cause drama
Show your face
Entertain the viewers
Either constantly stream for hours on end or continue to release new videos on video sites

[zenga]

Youtube and twitch are basically eachothers opposites on how they work:

- on twitch you make money in the momentum, from ads (really low and adblock browser addons kinda kill that market), but most make it from donations/subs (for 5$ a month you can subscribe to your favorite streamers and get some extra perks in that channel). I still don't understand why someone in his right mind would donate to a streamer, but apparently many people do, to the extend that a couple make really good money with streaming.

- on youtube you don't make most money from releasing a new video (except when it's bleeding edge), but way more from the videos you have already published. Publishing new content on youtube is often more of a long term deal.

[MadMilitia]

It's all about your CPM, or how much money you get per view. Some youtubers get into a larger organisation such as machinima, some stay solo. Some people get as much as 3$ per 1k viewers, some won't even get a fraction of that. It all depends about the advertisers and your content. That swifty channel that you linked is one of the biggest and longest youtubers/streamers for WoW, and he makes 100,000's of dollars.

Killing galeon solo as a boxer might get some attention, but frankly no one will give a shit. You might get a few k views, heck maybe even 50k views, and all you will be able to do is buy a pack of cigarettes and maybe a beer with the profit.

If _you_ want to start making money, then your best bet is to stream with a webcam on, sitting in your leather hot pants and have some half naked chicks dancing behind you. And release some videos on youtube.


Zenga hits the nail on the head! Nothing Swifty does is actually anymore legit than doing what Zenga says to do.

Sam you're a much more interesting fellow than Swifty. You ought to join Twitch. I'm sure you'd get viewers.

[Dranny817]

sign up and start streaming on twitch and see how it goes, you can get setup and running at no cost. So no harm in trying.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well I looked into twitch, it dosnt seem reasonable to keep people entertained for hour after hour, I mean there is just not that much action going on in the game, lots of my time is doing AH, doing Guild admin and trade skillz all boring as can be. I guess Ill try youtube for now and see how it goes. My first video ever is me and a friend attacking Seven Stars! I boldly go where no horde has gone before! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLWlZ0B-QwA no sound cause that's just another copyright hassel.

[zenga]

Well I looked into twitch, it dosnt seem reasonable to keep people entertained for hour after hour, I mean there is just not that much action going on in the game, lots of my time is doing AH, doing Guild admin and trade skillz all boring as can be. I guess Ill try youtube for now and see how it goes. My first video ever is me and a friend attacking Seven Stars! I boldly go where no horde has gone before! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLWlZ0B-QwA no sound cause that's just another copyright hassel.

I gave it a go ... and well ... not sure how to proceed. It's up to you if you want feedback or not (it can be pretty harsh), but with videos like that I'm afraid you aren't going to make a single dollar.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Sure lets have some critique

[Mokoi]

People like swifty, artosis, and other people making money have skills to teach. They show nubs how to be better and help themselves. Your videos are all about you and how awesone you think you are. You are not. The videos are boring and self-serving. Nobody gives a shit about some idiot who spends too much money to accomplish something so mundane.

If you were world-firsting new content and had a charming and not arrogant attitude... people might watch you on your stream as you make history like they do with the streams fron real world first guilds.

You are a turn-off to the average gamer. They dont want to see some middle-aged man throw money and time at a game until they can kill any group of people near them with simple and uninteresting macros that emphasise a lack of skill and creativity.

They want to watch better players. Not the embodiment of the nub player who has abused multiboxing to make himself near-invincible to the random passers by you prey on.

If you really want a channel people will watch, highlight all the times a small gruop or an individual has disabled or killed you.. and stream it.

People would love to laugh at your demise. In this gane you are the evil. The bad guy. Nobody cheers for that guy.

[Starbuck_Jones]

Streaming on Twitch to make money is hard. First you have to play a game that people like to watch. So unless you are playing some high level LoL, good luck getting a decent following with any other game outside of professional starcraft. Next you need to have a brilliant personality that people want to spend their time watching, or have really nice boobs. Donations, subscribers, and ad revenue is where you will get started. Next you will have to court sponsors and do giveaways. Seriously, with the amount of toons you have, you can just do in-game drawings and giveaways and attract a decent crowd and could get the ball rolling pretty fast. However, it's not a get rich quick, or make money fast scheme. Those that do make money have been at it for years already.

[MadMilitia]

People like swifty, artosis, and other people making money have skills to teach. They show nubs how to be better and help themselves. Your videos are all about you and how awesone you think you are. You are not. The videos are boring and self-serving. Nobody gives a shit about some idiot who spends too much money to accomplish something so mundane.

If you were world-firsting new content and had a charming and not arrogant attitude... people might watch you on your stream as you make history like they do with the streams fron real world first guilds.

You are a turn-off to the average gamer. They dont want to see some middle-aged man throw money and time at a game until they can kill any group of people near them with simple and uninteresting macros that emphasise a lack of skill and creativity.

They want to watch better players. Not the embodiment of the nub player who has abused multiboxing to make himself near-invincible to the random passers by you prey on.

If you really want a channel people will watch, highlight all the times a small gruop or an individual has disabled or killed you.. and stream it.

People would love to laugh at your demise. In this gane you are the evil. The bad guy. Nobody cheers for that guy.

That would be how the average WoW player would perceive him. The doe-eyed, burger flipping nobody of the world who plays WoW to be the best at something that doesn't matter.

You nailed it when you said he needs to portray himself as the bad guy. That's exactly how they perceive him. Someone who has money who can skirt the confines of a single subscription is like a 2%er in their eyes. But that can be fun too.

If I were in his shoes I'd go after those world first targets. PvE for a botter is often where the challenge is unless you bot arenas. Botting arenas? I'm quite sure many who hate Sam would watch him do that. You're right on the money about open world PvP. Numbers matter more than anything so it's boring and stupid to see 30+ toons handing a group in shrine their asses.

Unfortunately Sam would run into the same problem of having the time to do the server firsts. Even 5 man content. I only run with 3 now and I only have time to do some arena. I have no time for anything else in this game.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well I do plan to solo Galleon, and yes PvE firsts are important. No boxer will be the first to down a raid mob. but I think I will be the first to ligit take down a world boss. I will try 25 mans but my last attempt I didn't get past the trash but my ilevel was nothing back then.

Also when I post the world of logs of those fights I think you will see that my macros are by FAR the most complex in the game (Isboxer, my main PvE macro is 82 steps long) I use a LOT of different spells, it looks like I am spamming arcane explosion but there is a LOT going on. My ISBoxerToolkitProfile.LastExported.XML is over 890K.

People don't watch shows about 1percenters? Seems in society there is more fascination with the rich and powerful then with the poor ....

Frankly I don't plan on multiboxing places where I cannot use all my guys. A 5v5 arena just isn't using the power I built up over these last 5 years.

Ya I am sure that many see me as a bad guy but then again a lot would project themselves as being me and defeating their enemies.

How does a new person watching that video see me as arrogant? There is no commentary and the title is what the video is. You might as well say that the Ravens are arrogant for showing a repeat of their super bowl win. Besides trash talk has done well for the WWF ratings.

Also no matter what bad you can say about prepared (how does he lose his twitch account lol) his claim to being one of the most famous wow players is not that far off.

[MiRai]

If I were in his shoes I'd go after those world first targets. PvE for a botter is often where the challenge is unless you bot arenas. Botting arenas? I'm quite sure many who hate Sam would watch him do that. You're right on the money about open world PvP. Numbers matter more than anything so it's boring and stupid to see 30+ toons handing a group in shrine their asses.
Why do you keep saying "botting"? Is that how you describe multiboxing to people you encounter? I think it's obvious that multiboxing isn't botting. :confused:


Also when I post the world of logs of those fights I think you will see that my macros are by FAR the most complex in the game (Isboxer, my main PvE macro is 82 steps long) I use a LOT of different spells, it looks like I am spamming arcane explosion but there is a LOT going on.
Sam, I hate to break it to you, but more steps doesn't equal better DPS rotations. Steps != Complex


My ISBoxerToolkitProfile.LastExported.XML is over 890K.
I'll be honest, after you said this I cleaned mine up and looked at the size of it (awkward?). My profile is only 781KB (shaved 80KB off of it by cleaning up a long list of old characters) and I'll bet money that mine is more complex. What I'm trying to say is...

SIZE ISN'T EVERYTHING! At least that's what the ladies tell me. :p

[Sam DeathWalker]

Post a single fight you have against galleon to world of logs and Ill take a look to compare dps and healing and tanking. Or anyone not just Mirai. I would think that the longer the steps the more cooldowns you can check closer to when they are up, but maybe I am wrong. Mine might be longer because I don't use cascading castsequences with ,,,, in them because I figure they will take that away (they don't seem to want you to check for cooldowns without additional key presses) so ....

[MadMilitia]

Why do you keep saying "botting"? Is that how you describe multiboxing to people you encounter? I think it's obvious that multiboxing isn't botting. :confused:

Boxing, botting, when you have a IWT sequence isn't much different. It isn't entirely automated no, but I can see where some would call that botting. Of course it breaks from cheating because it isn't entirely automated gameplay.

When I do my 3s for example I run with 2 melee and drive as the healer. My rotation/IWT keybind is on my G13 which is on the floor. It sure as hell feels like botting sometimes. Depends on how complex you get with the macros and the keybinds. For example the major rotation for my melee is to follow the healer if a target isn't found immediately. So they leash before running off and choose their own targets. It doesn't work in BGs but I don't do BGs anymore. In PvE and Arena it works great. It looks like this:


/startattack
/castsequence reset=target/2 <primary rotation here>
/cast !<combat cooldown here>
/stopmacro [@target, nodead, exists, harm]
/targetnearestenemy
/stopmacro [@target, nodead, exists, harm]
/follow <driver>



Then you have your AE/ST dumps which are basically toggled on and off by hotkey. They follow rotation. Then after the AT/ST dump, you have your 3/5 minute buffs like battle shout, horn of winter, etc.


Lately I haven't been doing much of anything as I'm dropping my warrior for another UH DK. But once I get back up there the only obstacles will be those teams with great synergy and good line of sight maneuvers. I've obliterated some 1800 rated teams but my comp has been shit (dk/war). Once my all pressure comp (uhdk/uhdk/rshm) is assembled I think I'll crack 2k.

[Palee]

Shit, isn't there something better to read here than this crap?

[MiRai]

Post a single fight you have against galleon to world of logs and Ill take a look to compare dps and healing and tanking. Or anyone not just Mirai. I would think that the longer the steps the more cooldowns you can check closer to when they are up, but maybe I am wrong. Mine might be longer because I don't use cascading castsequences with ,,,, in them because I figure they will take that away (they don't seem to want you to check for cooldowns without additional key presses) so ....
I doubt there's any logs for Galleon since you can come at him with as many people as it takes to crash the server that houses Pandaria. This means that optimal DPS is not required and combat logs wouldn't normally be uploaded and analyzed. I'm not saying that logs don't exist, but if they did, I think the data would be skewed.


Boxing, botting, when you have a IWT sequence isn't much different. It isn't entirely automated no, but I can see where some would call that botting. Of course it breaks from cheating because it isn't entirely automated gameplay.
If IWT/CTM is what makes you feel like you're "botting," then you should play some other games that allow for delays within their macro system where you don't even need to continue to press keys on the keyboard beyond the initial press; but if a GM asked what you're doing, and you were legitimately multiboxing, would you answer, "I'm multiboxing", or, "I'm botting" ? One is allowed, while the other is not, and I'm just trying to clarify that because multiboxers already receive enough flak as it is.

[MadMilitia]

If IWT/CTM is what makes you feel like you're "botting," then you should play some other games that allow for delays within their macro system where you don't even need to continue to press keys on the keyboard beyond the initial press; but if a GM asked what you're doing, and you were legitimately multiboxing, would you answer, "I'm multiboxing", or, "I'm botting" ? One is allowed, while the other is not, and I'm just trying to clarify that because multiboxers already receive enough flak as it is.


It's all on Blizzard. I'm not putting this out there as a multiboxer thing as I can do the same thing 'playing' one toon. Spamming IWT and some pretty sophisticated in-game macros means I can quest/raid/BG while face rolling my keyboard.

Blizzard has dumb opinions on many things. One of which is this issue. When a company goes out of its way to eliminate grinding cheese, pet battle XP, follow in BGs and whatnot they are fighting against what is fun and it shows.

Clearly the only thing left to actually enjoy is to do arenas which is what? A 1 minute timer across almost every realm? GG Blizzard the fun police.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya we all kinda drifted off topic, anyway any more suggestions as to how to improve the videos I post to get more people to look at them? Is music or commentary absolutely necessary?

[zenga]

... as I can do the same thing 'playing' one toon. Spamming IWT and some pretty sophisticated in-game macros means I can quest/raid/BG while face rolling my keyboard.

With suboptimal performance. So what? You are basically comparing the macro system with botting. It's clearly stated in the ToS what is legal and what not.


When a company goes out of its way to eliminate grinding cheese, pet battle XP, follow in BGs and whatnot they are fighting against what is fun and it shows.
The only thing they do with these examples you mention is trying to avoid abuse, or fix stuff that they did not intended. If your definition of fun is only making use of things that were not intended, well ...

[Mokoi]

Sam you are just delusional if you think people are going to relate to you and watch your stream.

And yes it looks like you are spamming arcane explosion. Where in your fantastic macro setup does it warrant using that spell at all. You have so many characters, any single-target spell is more effective.

[MadMilitia]

The only thing they do with these examples you mention is trying to avoid abuse, or fix stuff that they did not intended. If your definition of fun is only making use of things that were not intended, well ...

This is childish. Clearly they've allowed things that they've then reconsidered and removed.

So their intentions are at best, whimsical. They go after anything that doesn't meet their doctrine of fun. That's why they've lost 3 million subs of late.

[Chalked]

Swiftly brings in most of his cash flow from sponsors. I think he does make about 4k a month from twitch. Swiftly though brings in a certain value. He's quite energetic and a spokesperson for razer.

A multiboxer isn't someone who'd I'd imagine is someone who is relatable to sell a product. First off to multibox requires a good deal of money. More for some less for others. But if your spending 1000s on a hobby. Don't you already have a decent income? Why bother with outside sources. Maybe you want to quit a job. But game trends come and go.

Sam in your case, if we took the numbers you'd be about 4.5k a year on sub fees alone. That's about 10% of the average us income. Not saying its bad, but it raises question as to how relatable you can come off.

Not to discourage. I've looked at your site and you seem like a fun guy, that would attract people to a stream. Not videos.

There was a thread on the us forum, might of been yours. Someone said that multiboxing would be cool if it was high level arena or current content pve. So unless you got something amazing.

Lastly no offense to anyone. But boxers are paying 5x,10x or more in sub fees. There are easier routes to cash. I mean twitch itself is only pays swiftly about 70k? Not that much money in that market. That's if you get good. Otherwise then it's donations and lets be honest. If you're spending 4k+ on a video game, please don't go looking for handouts.

[Khatovar]

Sorry Sam, but watching an indistinguishable swarm of mess run around isn't fun or impressive. Adding music or commentary isn't going to help because there's nothing to see. Except your mile-high chatbox spamming "Soandso is following you!" Once you've seen 1 minute of you trying to cause Arcane Explosion Seizures, you've seen all there is to see.

[Sam DeathWalker]

There was a thread on the us forum, might of been yours. Someone said that multiboxing would be cool if it was high level arena or current content pve. So unless you got something amazing. Would not world first one person box solo of Galleon be amazing? If I have seven guards around me and 3 enemy players of course I will use arcane explosion .... Ya I use single target all the time, especially when I can PoM pyroblast.

[Zub]

as was stated before, I think you'd make more money with one stream/video of you dancing in a loincloth (preferably with a couple babes in the background) than anything you'll ever do with wow.

Different target audiences however..

[Mokoi]

Would not world first one person box solo of Galleon be amazing? If I have seven guards around me and 3 enemy players of course I will use arcane explosion .... Ya I use single target all the time, especially when I can PoM pyroblast.

Yes, that video might be amazing, if you used tactics and advanced mechanics to pull it off, and not just brute-forse and ignorance in your current setup. Nobody will care.

What after that? One video a channel not maketh. You need a reason for people to come back, and its not going to be for your sunny disposition.

If I were you, if you want to make money on your channel, quit paying for so many accounts, and save that money and make a channel about how you quit boxing. You would get at last 1 hit on the video, and make SO much money in savings!

[Sam DeathWalker]

I think I can safely say that most world boss kills lack for tactics and advanced mechanics, and are done with brute force.

Ya high end raids require tactics to be successful and high end raiders employ such. But world boss kills because they are almost never done by a single guild and have no real leader are just everyone doing whatever they can.

Also the simple fact that Galleon and Oon are non tauntable means it’s not clear that the tank can keep agro, and many do not regardless of the tactics they employ. Without agro tanks cannot face or move the boss where they wish and a lot of tactics just are not viable as a result when the boss is targeting random raid members.

And as you know being a boxer if you can brute force the encounter then that’s only because of the months or years you spent preparing for it and leveling and gearing your guys – no small effort as we all know.

I think I clearly have to rely on the “amazing” part of this rather than anything else. I hope that solo of a world boss would be the “greatest” multiboxing achievement to date but no doubt if I do do it someone will claim that something else is greater.

So what are greatest boxing accomplishments to date: Prepared winning AV solo? Xzin high arena rating? What raid boss has been downed in Pandaria?

[MadMilitia]

Arena is easily the most attractive. For a number of reasons.

1. You aren't carrying a numbers advantage.
2. The opposing players tend to be the best of the bunch when it comes to WoW in general.
3. The macros are going to be WAY more complicated which in of itself, draws some intrigue.
4. Most of the WoW twitch community does rated RGBs and Arena.


Those are just 4 reasons. I'm sure there are more. As for the other accounts I'll just say this. I closed most of mine last year. I only run with 2 or 3 now. I can't say given the direction the game has gone in whether that matters to me or not. I feel like I have more control with just 2 than I did with 5. Of course, me playing 5 is 5 different classes so that matters too. Does it mean you'll get rolled in BGs? Of course. No matter how good you box 2 accounts, a zerg on your location is going to steamroll you. Just accept it. I don't play 2 just to win. I play 2 because it is infinitely more interesting than playing 1.

[EaTCarbS]

So what are greatest boxing accomplishments to date: Prepared winning AV solo? Xzin high arena rating? What raid boss has been downed in Pandaria?

Aelli's high ratings - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmgMsDGyCVE
Vyndri 2x5 multiboxing Kara in BC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5DVSNR_vKs
Kara 10 boxed in BC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDrMLYYdf5w
Shodokhan's ridiculously good ratings. Sorry, no video that I know of.
LFR In cataclysm Multiboxed - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsGb03hVvRg
Nechja Multiboxing ICC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIf8vYTMHkQ
Myself and another multiboxing Vault of Archavon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mczn1Mn-q7A&feature=share&list=PLE823444FC328C50B
Team Howister and a Friend multiboxing ICC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jprkYgLrrRs
(A few others were 10 boxing it, but their names escape me)

I'm sure there are plenty of others that I missed

I hate to say it, but the glory days of multiboxing in WoW are long gone.

Also, Prepared hasn't done anything most of us would consider an 'accomplishment.' Many of us could do the same (if not much better) with 40 accounts.

[Mokoi]

Most of could do a LOT better.

I don't play wow much, and I don't do world bosses, but it sounds like they are a brute force boring BS fight. Nobody is gong to watch that, and nobody is going to watch it enough to justify the subscriptions for that day of wow.

[Shodokan]

Aelli's high ratings - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmgMsDGyCVE
Vyndri 2x5 multiboxing Kara in BC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5DVSNR_vKs
Kara 10 boxed in BC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDrMLYYdf5w
Shodokhan's ridiculously good ratings. Sorry, no video that I know of.
LFR In cataclysm Multiboxed - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsGb03hVvRg
Nechja Multiboxing ICC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIf8vYTMHkQ
Myself and another multiboxing Vault of Archavon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mczn1Mn-q7A&feature=share&list=PLE823444FC328C50B
Team Howister and a Friend multiboxing ICC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jprkYgLrrRs
(A few others were 10 boxing it, but their names escape me)

I'm sure there are plenty of others that I missed

I hate to say it, but the glory days of multiboxing in WoW are long gone.

Also, Prepared hasn't done anything most of us would consider an 'accomplishment.' Many of us could do the same (if not much better) with 40 accounts.

I streamed some 2400+ 3's and 5's in s10, and 2300+ 3's and 5's in s11 but deleted the vods. Most people just didn't care to watch, even from here when I posted I was streaming. Even at high ratings a multi-boxer gets shit on for their game style choice. (remember i got ddosed for days because i beat the r1 team on shadowburn a few times as double dk + hpal vs their RLS)

Streamers make most of their money through donations, without a sub button and a 2k+ sub base you won't make shit for money from twitch. Youtube money is easier to get in the long run but you need new and interesting content... or just be REALLY good at what you do/likeable etc.

If you want to make REAL money from boxing the only way to do it is through shady means that has nothing to do with social media. And even then you don't make that much from it vs a minimum wage job unless it is the beginning of an expansion or something stupid.

IMO you'd be wasting your time trying this, tons of people tried (prepared... though fuck him, and tim from the other forum to name a few)

I might make one more run at it next season with a shaman team... but other than that wow is dead to me too.

[Tonuss]

Ya we all kinda drifted off topic, anyway any more suggestions as to how to improve the videos I post to get more people to look at them? Is music or commentary absolutely necessary?
I think it would make a difference, it feels awkward to watch them without sound. Commentary might be good if you have a good delivery (no stammering, for example). Perhaps the best approach is to make shorter videos (5-6 minutes) and edit out unnecessary footage (ie, killing guards or running around looking for something to kill). Clean up the UI and move any UI elements as far out of the way as you can, leaving a large clean viewing window that does not distract the viewer. Change things up, you posted a video of world PVP and talked about killing PVE bosses, that seems like a good start. Since you are on a PVP server, world bosses can present the additional challenge of having to deal with opposing players as well. Of course, if you do not succeed the only videos you will be able to post is of you being wiped, which won't work as well.

I don't know much about making money on twitch or youtube, but I think you'll want some kind of schtick or personality that keeps people coming back, whether it is because they like you or hate you. Prepared has already done the "multiboxer army wipes people at Location X for two hours" bit so that may not draw too many viewers. But I think if you can regularly post short videos (say at least one every week) that have good editing and good music or narration, you might build a following and some money will follow. That also has the advantage of not requiring huge amounts of time and effort, so that if it doesn't work out you don't follow the sunk cost road to damnation.