5.4 PTR Discussion

[MiRai]

Some interesting changes coming in 5.4:


Virtual Realms are coming, which will essentially merge realms. This will allow you to keep playing on your current realm, but trade with and do arenas, raids, and dungeons with people in your realm group, as well as use a merged Auction House.


All permanent item enhancements provided by Enchanting, Engineering, Leatherworking, Tailoring, and various vendors and quests are now able to be applied to items of any level. The effects of these enchantments will be scaled down to the level of the player using the item.

I'm not going to link the initially data-mined class changes and tier bonuses because it's very early and they're subject to change at a moment's notice. Anyone interested in that stuff should seek out the constant updates on their favorite data-mining news site; but feel free to discuss any of that information here if you'd like. ;)

Patch 5.4 is live -- Thread closed.

[luxlunae]

Yep, trashing the heirloom enchant market. I've been out of the game for four months now, this is the time I normally get the urge but still nothing.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I can't see from a mathematical standpoint that there is any difference in having a multi server ah vs. a single server ah. He who logs in more often to undercut others and check for buying opportunities has the edge either way.

[Klesh]

Low pop server -> low supply -> high prices = mostly caused by resellers High pop server -> higher supply -> mostly lower prices = resellers can't buy everything to relist, especially items which are easily farmed I've used to play on a higher pop server. When I got into the gem market ppl thought they could just buy my cheap stuff and relist. Well, that didn't work out thaaaaaaat well, cause ore supply was pretty much unlimited at reasonable prices (I've bought from ppl who prefered to mine and sell their ore instead of bothering with the gem market, and they liked my reasonable gem prices).

[djensen2010]

Been messing around on the PTR for several hours now doing alot of wpvp and arenas. Pvp will definitely be superior in Wpvp again due to the fact that players will be again hovering at around 45% pvp power which is obviously unattainable with pve gear. So I suppose thats a plus for some of us.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Low pop server = higher price for materials that might be true but a lower price for finished goods as there is less demand for those goods, as there is less demand for high priced goods makers of those goods pay less for materials which drives down their costs ... High pop server is the opposite but in both cases the demand for finished goods goes drives the cost of materials. Lower pop server has lower supply lower demand, high pop server has higher supply and higher demand ... and I cant see a difference.

[luxlunae]

I meant trashing the enchant market because I like selling +4 to chest and the vanilla weapon enchants. So not trash in general obviously, just gut a pet market I like. Which I shouldn't care about since I'm not playing, but *shrug*.

[Kruschpakx4]

I love the remove of passive damage reductions, I guess they want to make "on use" defensive cooldowns or similar to the lightning shield glyph for shadows/locks/boomkins, anyway thats gonna be a very nice buff for multiboxers that rely on oneshot macros

[Kruschpakx4]

For Arena matches lasting longer than 15 minutes, one of the teams will receive a buff called "The Crowd Chose You" that increases damage, critical strike chance, stealth detection, and reduces damage taken. The buff is awarded based on the following criteria.


Team with the largest number of players alive.
Team that brought an enemy player closest to death (lowest health).



the last time I was that happy about a patchnote was when they removed the fan of knive aoe silience

[suicidesspyder]

What about allowing the sending of heirloom gear cross relm and faction now. What about making spirits of harmony account bound now. Everything looks cool but they should add these two elements. Some of my toons are sitting on 50+ spirits and cannot use them.

[Sservis]

On Mail,

Given that they are merging realms to the extent of allowing guilds and the AH inside the newly created realms, but not forcing name changes, they're effectively implementing cross realm mail/trade/etc within those communities. It's just a question of if they'll allow it everywhere. They might hold off due to a desire to keep the economies unlinked as mail would enable a whole new metagame moving goods between realms for higher resale.

[MiRai]

Interesting...

932

[Oatboat]

I heard you were now going to zone in to the Arenas and have Rock/paper/scissor matches to decide who wins. To get rid of the whole you have to be geared thing.

[MiRai]

I heard you were now going to zone in to the Arenas and have Rock/paper/scissor matches to decide who wins. To get rid of the whole you have to be geared thing.
Fantastic!

Although, rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock (http://youtu.be/_PUEoDYpUyQ) requires more skill IMO.

[ebony]

its to remove follow from them again because there to unfair to arena and killing like they did in random bg's!!!!!!

[Multibocks]

Did you see the new trinkets? Unreal OP. 39% haste on CD rate of your main 6 abilities?! That alone will make them extremely useful even into the next expansion. Makes me wonder how they will nerf them for pvp.

[zenga]

Time to unshelf those 5v5 teams ...

- no more fixed team ratings, but individual rating
- region wide matchmaking (i.e. battlegroups no longer exist for arena)

This means that you will queue vs entire EU or entire US (maybe east and west are sep). Either way plenty more teams to queue.

[Fat Tire]

Time to unshelf those 5v5 teams ...

- no more fixed team ratings, but individual rating
- region wide matchmaking (i.e. battlegroups no longer exist for arena)

This means that you will queue vs entire EU or entire US (maybe east and west are sep). Either way plenty more teams to queue.

I would be excited about region wide matchmaking. However, I find it curious that they are adopting a rating system(rbg) which has and is still currently being exploited heavily in plain sight.

This change and flex raids are going to bring the carrying in wow to a new level in 5.4

[MiRai]

Time to unshelf those 5v5 teams ...

- no more fixed team ratings, but individual rating
- region wide matchmaking (i.e. battlegroups no longer exist for arena)

This means that you will queue vs entire EU or entire US (maybe east and west are sep). Either way plenty more teams to queue.


I would be excited about region wide matchmaking. However, I find it curious that they are adopting a rating system(rbg) which has and is still currently being exploited heavily in plain sight.

This change and flex raids are going to bring the carrying in wow to a new level in 5.4
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[Fat Tire]

Unfortunately, wintrading and boosting will be almost impossible to spot with the removal of arena teams.

The blog on Monday discussing the pvp changes looks to be an interesting read.

[zenga]

Unfortunately, wintrading and boosting will be almost impossible to spot with the removal of arena teams.

The blog on Monday discussing the pvp changes looks to be an interesting read.

They should just make the match history available for arena and rbg on the armory, like back in the day.
Still I think wintrading within your own battlegroup at certain ratings is easier now then it's going to be when everyone can queue into everyone.Maybe not at the absolute top rating, but in the 0-2400 bracket it will just be harder to set up matches (unless there is some exploit ofc) with so many more teams queuing.

[Fat Tire]

They should just make the match history available for arena and rbg on the armory, like back in the day.
Still I think wintrading within your own battlegroup at certain ratings is easier now then it's going to be when everyone can queue into everyone.Maybe not at the absolute top rating, but in the 0-2400 bracket it will just be harder to set up matches (unless there is some exploit ofc) with so many more teams queuing.

Yea I didnt say trading would be harder than it is now as its always been easy. I said it would be harder to spot. Given blizzards inability to police the rbgs ladders only adds to my point.

[Sservis]

The data mined Enduring Elixir of Wisdom (http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103557) is interesting. 100% xp boost potion for 85+, tooltips suggest a Blizzard In Game store, which is even more interesting.

[EaTCarbS]

The data mined Enduring Elixir of Wisdom (http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103557) is interesting. 100% xp boost potion for 85+, tooltips suggest a Blizzard In Game store, which is even more interesting. Pay a sub, and pay to win. Brilliant.

[Mickthathick]

Pay a sub, and pay to win. Brilliant.

Buying XP boosting is F2P bread and butter, not sure how it's pay to win for the player though.

But maybe you mean Blizzard wins haha

[Sservis]

Zarhym weighed in (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377319765?page=9#177) with no real clarification.

We are currently exploring the possibility of adding a way for players in certain regions to make purchases directly within the game. As part of this process, elements related to this will be appearing on the PTR. We’ll provide additional updates on our plans as development progresses.

[zenga]

Another 'iconic' multiboxer thing gone next patch: there will be diminishing returns on knock backs, So staggering thunderstorm is no more.

[Fat Tire]

Zarhym weighed in (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377319765?page=9#177) with no real clarification.

We are currently exploring the possibility of adding a way for players in certain regions to make purchases directly within the game. As part of this process, elements related to this will be appearing on the PTR. We’ll provide additional updates on our plans as development progresses.


I have absolutely no qualms about purchasing an experience boost, because it means I don't have to buy yet another account in order to level my characters more quickly.

Free to play could be on the horizon. Doesnt blizzard make more money off services than actual subscriptions? I think I read that somewhere.

If they keep losing subs they will have to change drastically, I could see ftp as a way to increase revenue and get back some of those players who quit. Ghostcrawler said that the reasoning that most players give for quitting is that wow is to expensive.

[ebony]

I have absolutely no qualms about purchasing an experience boost, because it means I don't have to buy yet another account in order to level my characters more quickly.

Free to play could be on the horizon. Doesnt blizzard make more money off services than actual subscriptions? I think I read that somewhere.

If they keep losing subs they will have to change drastically, I could see ftp as a way to increase revenue and get back some of those players who quit. Ghostcrawler said that the reasoning that most players give for quitting is that wow is to expensive.

if they go free to play and how blizzard is all about cash. then the game will be play to win. to be fair i can see more games going ftp and making money of items etc seems to be the new way.

[zenga]

Free to play could be on the horizon. Doesnt blizzard make more money off services than actual subscriptions? I think I read that somewhere.

If they keep losing subs they will have to change drastically, I could see ftp as a way to increase revenue and get back some of those players who quit. Ghostcrawler said that the reasoning that most players give for quitting is that wow is to expensive.

My guess is that it will only be available to those regions that don't allow RaF. Currently playing arena with a guy who was going to transfer to my realm, but since he is a student he didn't fancy transferring more than 1 toon. Offered him the option to get a 5 euro battlechest and that I would boost him a few nights to dungeons. Easiest/fastest/cheapest way to get multiple alts on a new realm. Unfortunately the country he lives in does not allow incentives like RaF. And just looking at the list of countries that don't allow it, I can see they miss out on quite some business. Making the purchase directly ingame would circumvent the whole restriction for these countries.

Either way, I don't see WoW becoming free to play any time soon. If they have 5m subs at 15$, thats $75kk per month or $900kk from subs alone each year. That's a whole lot of cash to put on the line. Slowly adding items (pets, mounts, this xp boost, cosmetic items, ...) while not trying to piss off your subs, i.e. items that don't offer any strength cq direct combat advantage in the game, ... sure. But free to play with the current revenue they get from subs, I highly doubt it.

Just like I doubt that they make more money from services than from subs ... you have to transfer/faction change/buy a lot of pets to surpass what you pay each year for your sub.

And a last consideration: I've been playing on an empty realm until roughly 20 months ago. Pretty much everyone I knew there has quit over time, simply because they could not play the game anymore the way they want. When I look at the people I know on my new full realm, the drop out rate is much lower. So yeah they made perhaps a lot of money from people transferring away from dead realms, but most feel ripped off for that. But the amount of people that left the game because they were stuck on a dead realm and didnt feel like paying $100+ to transfer their alts to a populated realm sooner or later surpasses that.
That is one of the reasons why they will cluster the low pop realms together next patch. Which obviously means that they will miss out on a lot of transfers, but a bunch of players who quit might come back (or keep their sub going since there will actually be more to do).

[Fat Tire]

It doesnt matter what anyone thinks about pay to win or free to play all that matters is what blizzard is told by Activision. If they are told to increase revenue then blizzard will have to find ways to increase it. Since they cant increase the subscription costs, because evidently that is a major driver away from the game I would be curious what players would suggest. The little pets and mounts are not cutting it anymore I am sure and services will take a hit from the virtual realm thing.

[ebony]

It doesnt matter what anyone thinks about pay to win or free to play all that matters is what blizzard is told by Activision. If they are told to increase revenue then blizzard will have to find ways to increase it. Since they cant increase the subscription costs, because evidently that is a major driver away from the game I would be curious what players would suggest. The little pets and mounts are not cutting it anymore I am sure and services will take a hit from the virtual realm thing.

well they should not not removed /follow from bg's if they wonted my money!

[Lyonheart]

A lot of other MMOs have HAD to become FTP in order to survive. Some have started off as FTP based on what they learned from other previously PTP MMOs that went FTP with great success ( DDO for example ).

WoW is in a unique position to be able to still charge a sub fee AND offer some of these store items, without a "need" to be FTP. I think its a great idea. How many of us have made multiple new RaF account for the simple purpose of having accelerated exp? I know i have spent hundreds doing it. And i will gladly pay for exp potions and a monthly fee. I do it in so called FTP games all the time. I go gold ( becoming a PTP account ) and also always buy tons of shit in the in game stores for real money.

[Multibocks]

Speculation is this item will actually be bought in game from currency earned on the island that is introduced in 5.4. Don't get your hopes up too soon, it may be wrong.

[zenga]

Speculation is this item will actually be bought in game from currency earned on the island that is introduced in 5.4. Don't get your hopes up too soon, it may be wrong.

They said literally: 'We are currently exploring the possibility of adding a way for players in certain regions to make purchases directly within the game'

Don't see how that fits with your ingame currency.

[Multibocks]

They said literally: 'We are currently exploring the possibility of adding a way for players in certain regions to make purchases directly within the game'

Don't see how that fits with your ingame currency.

sorry I missed this, where did they say that?

[Fat Tire]

sorry I missed this, where did they say that?


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377319765?page=9#177

[MiRai]

I've already spent more money on re-RaF'ing accounts over the last few years than I ever will on any XP potions, but I welcome the idea, though. I'd say once a game starts selling things that give an actual in-game advantage (gear, stats, currency, etc.) against other players who choose not to buy the tiems, then it becomes a problem. However, I don't think any major game publisher offers such items that truly affect actual gameplay like that.

The reasons that I wouldn't play a game isn't because they have a store where people can buy vanity/semi-useless items, it's because the content, the gameplay, or something else is lacking to where I don't find the game fun. If anything, an option for store bought items such as this will likely increase the revenue that Blizzard currently makes on WoW which, in turn, will most likely lead to the ability to hire more developers and more/better content (or even future Blizzard games).


sorry I missed this, where did they say that?
In the mega-thread on their forum - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377319765

[Mickthathick]

I have gone off the subscription model entirely due to the fact that the content in subscription games is developed primarily to keep you playing, usually by doing grindy or repetitive content in one way or another. Fun is secondary!

Also, and this is my own (but pretty common) psychological issue, but I also dislike the compulsion I feel to play said subscription games as I want to make sure I get my monies worth and will play past the point of enjoyment and into unpaid 2nd job territory.

I am actually thinking of buying game cards for 2 accounts this weekend as I want to check out 5.3 and have some pet battles, but I'm really hesitant as I also want to start painting the house I've just bought!

************************************************** **************************

Thinking about this further, my life is actually so much better when I have no active WoW accounts. I still love the game though, goddam but it really plugs into the self-destructive streak I have :(

Going deeper, I was reminising about WoW a couple of nights ago as I was vacuuming and the way I was thinking about the 'good old days' of the game when I used to raid and be in an active guild, was equivalent to looking back on bad, fun but destructive failed relationship.



ARGH I think I better just stick to X3 Albion Prelude (awesome sandbox space sim) and other indie games that are easy to play for a bit then switch off.

[Tonuss]

I think WOW will eventually go F2P because it seems that is where the MMO industry is headed, but I think it's a few years off. As long as they can retain several million subscriptions I don't see why they would change. When they do, the number of people who will return will probably swamp the login and realm servers for a while. It's a fun game and it's managed to both attract and retain a surprisingly large number of players since it launched. Blizzard's real concern (IMO) should be that WOW might be an anomaly, and their next game will be like all of the other post-WOW MMOs, which has an early surge of subs but settles in with fewer than 1 million or even 500k.

[Palee]

I think WOW will eventually go F2P because it seems that is where the MMO industry is headed, but I think it's a few years off. As long as they can retain several million subscriptions I don't see why they would change. When they do, the number of people who will return will probably swamp the login and realm servers for a while. It's a fun game and it's managed to both attract and retain a surprisingly large number of players since it launched. Blizzard's real concern (IMO) should be that WOW might be an anomaly, and their next game will be like all of the other post-WOW MMOs, which has an early surge of subs but settles in with fewer than 1 million or even 500k.

Ha ha, wouldn't that be a bummer to work so hard on a new game and not be able to be as successful as their own same old WoW lol.
I can't see how they won't compete with each other. If the new game is anything short of amazing, they will have to use a lower sub/month to attract more people. Even if the new game is amazing, many people might just not want to move on. Old is sometimes better, just like wine. And I doubt they would just shut down WoW when it still has so many subs.

Now of course, there are going to be a whole new set of customers for the new game who never played WoW, or are no longer WoW customers.

[Khatovar]

I still think WoW is a long ways off F2P. Even with a new game I'd have to guess they'll keep the current subscription model and would probably opt for a "Station Pass" kind of deal if they come up against too many people unsubscribing from WoW to play their new game. That way they can increase their revenue while encouraging customers to simply swap between their games and possibly drop more money SC and D3 as well.

[Fat Tire]

I still think WoW is a long ways off F2P. Even with a new game I'd have to guess they'll keep the current subscription model and would probably opt for a "Station Pass" kind of deal if they come up against too many people unsubscribing from WoW to play their new game. That way they can increase their revenue while encouraging customers to simply swap between their games and possibly drop more money SC and D3 as well.

I dont think wow will wait 3 years to introduce new ways to increase revenue. Titan was pushed back to 2016.

[Kruschpakx4]

Healing Tide Totem is now baseline, available to all three Shaman specs.

ok plenty buffs in the past but now its getting scary

Season 8 part 2 incomming

[zenga]

Healing Tide Totem is now baseline, available to all three Shaman specs.

ok plenty buffs in the past but now its getting scary

Season 8 part 2 incomming

With the entire region being in same group now, 5 queues are going to be way more active. Played some ptr 3s myself with a disc, and had 450k shields at a give moment with stone bullwark totem/spirit shell. Combined with 4p from resto (aura mastery for swg) and since thunderstorm dr's now, I can see boxing ele being viable again in 5s. Just think you are more or less forced to play with a rogue for aoe stealth. So disc / rogue and triple ele, going in as rambo mode. Can't wait to queue.

[Multibocks]

Fraps! Fraps! Fraps!

[zenga]

Shaman: Chain Heal's effectiveness will no longer decrease with each jump, and there's a new talent.
Also healing tide is now baseline.

So basically ... if you play 4x ele or enhancement:
4x healing tide
4x Ancestral Guidance or you take the new talent that buffs healing stream totem by 100% and heals 2 extra people.
4x chain heal spam ... (instant in some cases)
4x healing rain (less practical in pvp ofc)

Boy oh boy .,..

[ebony]

why oh why i miss Av so much and the sham changes look fun for us :'(

[MiRai]

Connected Realms

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10551009/Patch_54_Feature_Preview_Connected_Realms-8_5_2013

[Kruschpakx4]

best idea ever

[Baltyre]

I don't care, i play my multibox cross realm. I hope they will not nerf the ability to choose my server.

[Multibocks]

I'm hoping this doesnt turn into phasing part deux. If I lose follow a bunch in a zone, more than I do now, I dont think I will box anymore.

[luxlunae]

Perhaps they shouldn't have spent eight years "suggesting" the lowest pop realms to every new player. I think closing the servers would have been cleaner (especially if done like rift, with the option to move your character anywhere).

Reading the comment on mmochamp (battle net is down), it sounds like they really are just merging the servers and half your server is going to have conditionals tacked onto their name. Not great for immersion and I'll be curious how friends list will work using that (perhaps you'll only be able to friend linked realmers that give you their battletag? annoying if you're just trying to tell when someone signs on).

Probably bad for gold making but gold making wasn't as interesting this expansion anyway.

[MiRai]

Perhaps they shouldn't have spent eight years "suggesting" the lowest pop realms to every new player.
Haha

[Tonuss]

This looks like it will help them to deal with population issues without having to shut down or consolidate realms, at least for a while. That always seemed to be a sign that a game was "in decline." It won't help high population realms that have a severe faction imbalance. I think Stormrage US and Darkspear US are both in that situation. It will be interesting to see if people take them up on any free transfer offers if there is less concern that they'll be moving to a ghost town or just going from one lopsided server to another.

[zenga]

It won't help high population realms that have a severe faction imbalance.

In EU at least, most high pop servers have 1 faction that makes up for almost 100% of the total server population.
Take a look at this list for example (http://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/eu/lang.en) (counts amount of players that have killed a raid boss)

e.g. Kazzak is a complete horde realm, whereas ravencrest is a complete alliance realm. Shouldn't be too hard to merge both realms together without orgrimmar or stormwind becomes overcrowded ...
Or they merge 1 big horde realm with 2 lower alliance realms ... its not like only the high pop realms have only1 faction

but ye ofc for some it will work out better than for others. but in the end everyone will benefit from it

[Baltyre]

Yes, but i think that's majority of players like Kazzak and Ravencrest the way it is. So i'm not sure that's a good idea to merge them.

[Khatovar]

Yes, but i think that's majority of players like Kazzak and Ravencrest the way it is. So i'm not sure that's a good idea to merge them.

Majority, yeah, but it sure does suck being on the minority side of things. Stormrage US (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49290-Multiboxing-Horde-on-Stormrage-PVE?p=379923&viewfull=1#post379923) has been the victim of increasingly abysmal faction imbalance since the beginning of time. Nothing sells on the AH, there's no raiding guilds, there's barely even social guilds and the new people who come in see that and turn right around to reroll on another server. There hasn't been any world PvP to speak of since BGs were introduced, unless you count Alliance steamrolling in to kill everything in Org while the 10 Horde there move from the Valley of Wisdom AH to the Valley of Honor one, lol.

When free transfers come up, Horde are the only ones that leave. If it wasn't a huge, costly pain in the ass to move all my guys and all their stuff I would have left years ago. These merges are going to have pretty much 0 impact on Alliance, but could potentially have a huge impact on Horde for my server. Assuming Blizzard doesn't manage to turn the whole thing into a massive disaster, which is where my money's going, heh.

[Baltyre]

I have one of my alliance char on kazzak (100% horde), and when i want to do some world pvp, i invite my whole team here. It's great ;)
Pro Tip : For the AH for a boxer, you can use the neutral AH to buy stuff from the other side.

[Khatovar]

Pro Tip : For the AH for a boxer, you can use the neutral AH to buy stuff from the other side.

Buying is fine, that's how I've always outfitted my toons, even when I was solo. It's selling the ungodly amounts of stuff you acquire as a boxer. With the last expansion my only "customers" were the other people still trying to sell on the horde AH. Roughly 50% of the auctions on Horde AH were mine, lol. I even spent some time trying to transfer to sell on Alliance, but once you consider the time investment, fees, lower prices, competition and lack of storage, it quickly became an exercise in futility.

[luxlunae]

Buying is fine, that's how I've always outfitted my toons, even when I was solo. It's selling the ungodly amounts of stuff you acquire as a boxer. With the last expansion my only "customers" were the other people still trying to sell on the horde AH. Roughly 50% of the auctions on Horde AH were mine, lol. I even spent some time trying to transfer to sell on Alliance, but once you consider the time investment, fees, lower prices, competition and lack of storage, it quickly became an exercise in futility.

Agreed, this is how you end up with two guild banks filled with levelling crap that you swear you're going to use to level professions.

I LIKE making gold (and at times its been the only activity I keep an active sub for), but dragging stuff between two factions is all kinds of aggravating and not a fun way to turn a coin.

[Multibocks]

So they said we could save up 3000 valor points before patch, but what exactly do you spend it on?? I don't see any valor armor vendors for 5.4.

[rfarris]

One of the Blizzard devs tweeted yesterday that 27-Aug is the target date for the 5.4 patch to drop.

[luxlunae]

flex raid might lure me back. I haven't had a fun pug in years.

[Multibocks]

ugh, gamescon interview is now saying Sept 10th for 5.4. F me I can't take the wait!

[Fat Tire]

ugh, gamescon interview is now saying Sept 10th for 5.4. F me I can't take the wait!

Actually it has been confirmed.

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/august/sooBanner.jpg

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3354-Preparing-for-Patch-5-4-Siege-of-Orgrimmar-September-10?page=2#comments

[zenga]

Guess someone else will have made the joke before, but patch hits here 9/11 .... quite the date to release a city raid.

[Multibocks]

Well at least there are no figurative towers (or literal) in this raid.