Thinking of a new 5 box PVE setup - could use some input

[Asterix]

Heya :)

I'm thinking of a new 5 box PVE Setup in World of Warcraft and worked myself through about half of the threads in this subforum.
The last time I've played a 5box setup was when WOTLK addon was released (Pala Tank, Heal Priest, 3 Mages for CC and DPS)
so all the infos I remember could be a little bit ... outdated :)

Therefore I'm looking for some input from players which currently 5box successfully a PVE Setup.

I'm trying to:
- create a PVE Setup (I'm not interested in any PvP content)
- create a guild to get the "bonus-gold" for guild-dungeons and level through LFG dungeons until lvl 85 maybe 90
- either switch to scearios and play 3 of the 5 chars or stay with heroic dungeons with 5 of the 5 chars
- keep the makros as less and as easy as possible while getting a solid DPS to focus on boss tactics and healing my tank/group

So I thought of a 5box with the same classes:

- 5 Paladins
(tank and 4x dps, using seal to heal all targets in melee range with a % of Damage dealt
and using HP or instant flash heal spamming on the tank to keep him alive if necessary)
negative: AOE effects hit all chars at once.

- 5 Druids

So I can use the random dungeon tool with my group, but then I read the thread about the moonkin
and the lunar and solar phases and kicked the idea of the druids due to the complexity of the class
and the DPS loss I might get while boxing it with simple macros.

While reading all the threads I often heard about a group of one tank and 4 healer classes, played
as DPS and only in the heroic content using one of them as a dedicated healer:

- Paladin Tank, 4 Disc Priest

- Paladin Tank, 4 Shadow Priests, healing with shields and Vampire Touch? (not quiet sure if it was VT which heals the group)
(afaik shadow has to switch out of shadow form to heal?)

- Paladin Tank, 4 Ele Shamans

----------

Any input / experience / suggestions you can share with any of the combos or maybe another combo
where I haven't thought of about? I've mainly used a paladin tank because I've played this specc most
of my time - therefore I don't need that much focus on playing the tank because I'm used to it.

Thanks in advance
Asterix

[TRoN]

I've never played a 5 all same class toons, even on the early days of multiboxing where 5XShammies were THE thing. I've always prefered hybrid groups to get a bit more from each class benefits. I have fun watching their own internal 'competition' within my multiboxing universe. I like to analise and compare their performance as DPSers, Healers, CCers, Buffers, etc.

But I can tell you that 1 DK (or Paladin) + 4 Disc Priest will be a breeze. Rush mode ON, at least for the content you've mentioned 80-90. I assure you that with those priest pack, with just what you get from the dungeons you run, will keep your tank and themselves full health just by DPSing - and they are pretty good DPSers.

You'll maybe have some problems on some Cata dungeons or, at least, a bit more adrenaline with some packs that would be easier having a toon with decent CC.

Nowadays, every group composition can easily run WotLK/Cata dungeons and when we choose our group in terms of efficiency or difficulty, if your priority or preference goes to fast and easy, then we are not talking about classes but mechanics and the way we setup the team. Mellee vs ranged is part of that dilemma and is what impacts the most on our team performance, our expectations and how much fun we have driving the toons. I'll elaborate a bit about this:

Imo, the most important factor when setting a group composition is not their classes but if we like, or get used to, or get annoyed by having more then 1 rebel mellee guy always dancing around the tank. Most of the times, the player don't set a proper configuration to control the mellees particular behaviour. Teams with mellees dpsers can't just be treated like the tank and the others but, instead, the tank, the 'half-retarded' mellee(s) and the others.

So, if people prefer a more relaxed way of multiboxing, more predictable, less failures, and really efficient, the easiest combo is tank + others beeing the tank=anytank and the others=anyrangeddpser/healer.

And what more, keeping it simple? More is: at least one of the others (not the tank) should be a decent CCer, capable of controling the type of creatures you'll have to deal with. A DPSer with some healing capability can aid to optimize things (every boxer know why...). And if your tank can't silence/interrupt someone's got to do it.

I've recently run 3 teams on WotLK/Cata content and I found the warlock the most versatile dude regarding those extra tricks he can use to make things smoother. With the aid of his boosted minions, he can CC, off-tank for a while, kite or bait mobs, debuff, and keep the group Soulstoned because oh yeah shit happens. And, of course he can hit like the best. (All my locks are destro when leveling).

In general, any class can give that bit of a difference that brings the extra power we need to the team if you are ready to set it up and use it. The fact is that a great part of multiboxers set their teams almost exclusively in terms of damage-healing (and tbh, to run WotLK/Cata content is just what is needed :)).

/cheer

[luxlunae]

I'd suggest dual speccing the priests shadow/disc and only running with one or two of them disc at a time. An spriest with a decent rotation does very nice dps and, especially while levelling, especially if you have heirlooms, you just don't need the power of that much healing at the expense of time in dungeons.

[MiRai]

Any input / experience / suggestions you can share with any of the combos or maybe another combo
where I haven't thought of about? I've mainly used a paladin tank because I've played this specc most
of my time - therefore I don't need that much focus on playing the tank because I'm used to it.
MoP Heroics are much more forgiving than Cata Heroics were, but if you want the most out of your group (in any game, really) you should try and maximize buffs (http://www.wowhead.com/guide=1100/mists-of-pandaria-buffs-and-debuffs). Obviously, playing a full party of entirely mixed classes requires more setup and tweaking on your part, but it may help you overcome specific encounters quicker, and with less gear, than you would with a comp that's easier to manage.

However, I always recommend that people don't restrict themselves to only one comp and, if you plan on re-RaF'ing, then you should try to get a handful of classes to level 80 before that time is up.

[Asterix]

Wow... thanks a lot for all the input, guys :)

Watched several movies now and now I understand what you mean with 'half retarded melees running circles around the mob / tank'.
Doesn't look really satisfying and I think all the running might be a big dps loss, except you always position your toons close to the enemy.
Range DPS seems to be more comfortable.

4xheal+range dps vs 1xheal + 3xrange dps:
One thing I learned the hard way (back in WOTLK): forget to focus the lifeline once and you regret it badly.
Therefore I thought of 4 healer which can easily do some basic healing to keep the group alive and (if needed) a dedicated healer to
heal against the damage spikes. Therefore I can focus more on interrupting (with the pala) or moving out of AOE or boss abilities.

That's why I thought about the 5 paladin setup with the seal that heals everyone in range or disc priests with their renew
or druids with their tons of HOTs. Everyone places a single HOT on the tank and starts DPS on the mob - if needed some
healing and if the mob / boss hits like a truck then a dedicated healer which doesn't DPS and just keeps spamming heals
on the group / tank.

In my way of playing (WOTLK HCs): I prefered having a solid basic heal on the tank/group than having a CC / buff for every situation.
That's why I played with 4 Shamans, all Ele Specc and DPS and only spamming a quick & small heal on the tank when necessary.
4xsmall heal = full HP. In Boss Fights with heavy damage spikes on the group (i.e. Garfrost in Pit of Saron) I placed the tank close
to the group and spammed chain heal with all toons after each 2 - 5 attack casts... oh and I had 4 self-resurrections :D
(btw haven't heard anything positive about ele shamans in DPS and healing in Ele Spec?)

and btw. when playing a team of 4 even classes you don't get into trouble with the cast rotations when changing target, loosing
a second due to a log or breaking your sequence because of a heal. I usually had the problem to get all the spells in the right
direction even, so that 1-3 macros can handle the whole rotation and then try to include possible proccs because some of them
are a big DPS loss if not used.

btw: no heirlooms, no RAF, I'm using my old accounts and leveling down from the scratch 1-15 questing 15-90 dungeons.
7+ lfg-dungeons a week for collecting the bonus-gold in guild bank, the bonus-guild exp for guild dungeon and the bonus exp+gold for lfg.
that's why I try to plan my team now and not test + trash it because leveling is so fast with RAF :)

[Asterix]

ok, looks like the choice has been made.

checked the wow talent calculator and all the new spells and abilities the healing classes got.

druid = no go because of the solar/lunar eclipse stuff and tons of positioning spells and procs.

shaman = looks nice but not that nice anymore, mainly because of the changes in the healing
stream totems. I've used 4 of them all the time (ages ago) to get a basic healing in the group.
Now the totem got a longer CD than it is present therefore useless.

monk = never played so I won't use it, tbh. I'm too old to learn new classes *g*

paladin = nice but melee, will use him if I can't handle the priests.

priest (disc) = ranged dps, shields and a HOT and does some basic healing in the group with
atonement. Looks like 4 of them can easily heal me through the instances from 15-80.


thanks to MiRai for getting RAF back in my mind:
currently got 3 accounts, on one is a lvl 90 paladin tank, therefore I will use the RAF
on the other two accounts to get me two additional accounts and use the paladin tank
to kick my toons through the instances.

I'll keep you updated on my progress :)

[TRoN]

druid = no go because of the solar/lunar eclipse stuff and tons of positioning spells and procs.

The druid is a very reliable healer and the healing process can be easily be put inside the global team rotation. You can run all pre-MOP content normal or heroic without focusing on healing at all. Obviously you should have also a Click Heal functionality set for tough fights and messy situations. But overall a Druid Resto is a very powerful multiboxing healer. The problem vs Disc Priest is DPS. The druid dps contribution will be close to null to function the way I've described.


priest (disc) = ranged dps, shields and a HOT and does some basic healing in the group with atonement. Looks like 4 of them can easily heal me through the instances from 15-80.

That 'basic healing with atonement' = ALWAYS full health. 4 priests are overhealing abuse! With a good configuration, your tank will stay 100% shielded all the time and you'll probably run some full instances without a single click heal action. Maybe a POH here and there to bring spirit to the guys ;)

[Asterix]

That 'basic healing with atonement' = ALWAYS full health. 4 priests are overhealing abuse! With a good configuration, your tank will stay 100% shielded all the time and you'll probably run some full instances without a single click heal action. Maybe a POH here and there to bring spirit to the guys ;)

:o:o

this sounds great :D

thanks a lot.

[candlebox]

Rets are getting a 15% buff to dmg....

[Asterix]

Priest


Glyphs

Glyph of Smite (http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/42416) no longer causes the additional 20% damage dealt by Smite (http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/585) to transfer into Atonement (http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/81749).


Discipline

Atonement (http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/81749) now heals nearby friendly targets for 90% of the damage dealt, down from 100%.
Penance (http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/47666) now deals 10% less damage, but healing done is increased by 10%.




http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/9135374/53_PTR_Patch_Notes_now_available-3_22_2013

[Asterix]

Progress:

Used my lvl 90 tank paladin to rush through the instances while having 4 disc priests in my back.
Pushed them on one weekend from level 1 to level 72. Currently taking a break (lots of work here).

I haven't needed any heal so far (bc of the level 90 pala tank) so the only thing I've set up is
the follow macro. I start 'playing' the toons when getting into the first cata dungeons.

[cmeche]

I miss playing with raf. Leveling up was fun in itself for me.

[luxlunae]

I miss playing with raf. Leveling up was fun in itself for me.

Agreed. Paying $75 a month to power level myself never struck me as fun, actually PLAYING the dungeons at level is fun!... usually

[MiRai]

I miss playing with raf. Leveling up was fun in itself for me.


Agreed. Paying $75 a month to power level myself never struck me as fun, actually PLAYING the dungeons at level is fun!... usually
With this latest RaF of mine I'm actually going back to questing & dungeons (with mixed teams) rather than boosting and it really is much more enjoyable. I may end up boosting some extra classes in the end if time is short, but I'm enjoying it very much since I've discovered the pro system for ISBoxer.

[Asterix]

this had been my intention, but I already had 3 accounts (with MOP Addon) therefore
I only needed two more and you can't combine a RAF group with a non-RAF Tank to play
all chars at once because you can only play some dugeons
with this group due to the 300% exp boost on the toons.

that's why I choose to use my main account solo and combine the other two accounts
to a RAF group and boost them 1-80 and start "playing" as soon as my tank needs
support which I think will be in cata dungeons.


therefore I'm currently just boosting toons for group composition ideas:

Dungeon-Groups:
5x paladin
1x paladin 4x priest
1x paladin 4x shaman
1x paladin 4x warlock
1x paladin 4x hunter

and btw. I earn money through selling cloth and disenchanted items.
Made 10K Gold only for the stuff I sold when I played the priests 1-72

[Asterix]

Heeeeeeere we go again :D

after a long break because of work I'm back online. I saw the MiRai Videos and now I know exactly what I was missing:

All this boosting toons with RAF (because one of my accs don't have the 300% bonus therefore I cannot play them as a team)
is far away from what the actual game is all about: Playing and having a challenge and having fun. It was more like 'work'.

Therefore I'm glad that the 300% bonus expired and I'm thankful for the MiRai videos which showed me that.

I've renewed my subscriptions and gonna create a new team, quest them through lvl 15 and start doing LFG.

1 tank + 4x DPS/Heal hybrids.

currently I'm thinking about a druid tank and 4 disc priests so I can turn the druid into a moonkin while
doing dailys so I got a complete range DPS team. I always hated running around with a paladin while
one-shotting the enemies from the distance, therefore my paladin was just standing around and
waving goodbye to the mobs. ^^

[rfarris]

I leveled 1-80 with a pally tank and a druid healer and you're right. The pally was always standing around waiting for a mob to get close enough.

My next team I used a warrior tank with charge and that was a little better, but not nearly as good AoE taunting.

My current team has a monk tank and that is working out pretty good. Have you considered that? He has a quasi-charge and great AoE taunting and dps.

[Mamut]

For just killing time in 5 mans and scenario i rolled a mixed melee group. Tank bounces between a DK and Druid, enh sham, fury war with monk full on fist weaving. Had to buy some crafted PVP gear to get iLevel high enough to use DF.

Cover every buff but spell power. Skull banner + Bloodlust/heroism just melts bosses even in crap gear. Pretty much just zerg the dungeons down no need for any CC at all.

The monk heals are not too bad if you macro it up to take advantage of muscle memory as well as keeping renewing mist up. Drop a jade statue for bosses or large pulls.

If i was to do a hybrid dps/healer i think ele shamans are the way to go with crazy AoE with chain lightning and dropping healing totems on cooldown could make for fast runs.

[Asterix]

warrior / monk etc. got a simple problem: a) melee and b) if I charge, my toons continue following and break their current cast. If I stop follow before charging I can run back to get them back in follow distance.
That's why I don't want to quest with a combination of melee and range dps. So I will choose a druid which can be a boomkin or keep the group alive in AOE situations with HOTs and it can be a tank for LFG

hybrid healer+dps:
thought about a lot of combinations but in the end I won't choose a mixed team.
Mixed teams will be more effective with buffs etc. but I will try to keep my setup simple and clean.
And for healing, you got 2 choices:

a) dedicated healer which heals the group
b) everyone can heal and keep the tank alive with a sh*tload of HOTs while they DPS

I'll take option B

Therefore I need a dps healer with HOTs:

Shaman: no HOTs (except in heal specc). Totems got a Cooldown now.
They had been my fav. in WOTLK but they lost too much power :(

Druid: lovely hots, they could stay out of moonkin and keep DPS and healing as a caster.
But I will loose a lot of DPS and got the lunar/solar phases and all the additional dps stuff
must be casted via mouse on the ground

Priest: disc priest: passive heal via atonement, can shield and renew, can DPS.

therefore: priest.

[luxlunae]

Jade statue doubles your passive healing so you really should take the time to drop it every pull.

[MiRai]

Therefore I'm glad that the 300% bonus expired and I'm thankful for the MiRai videos which showed me that.
Haha

Glad I could be of service. ;)



My next team I used a warrior tank with charge and that was a little better, but not nearly as good AoE taunting.
Love my Warrior. I'll eventually have both a DK and Warrior tank to show off during Cata heroics (whenever that will be).

[Asterix]

successfully finished ragefire with a lvl 15 group of druid tank and 4 priests.

took about 1,5 hours (macro setup with castsequence for dps and healing etc etc etc...)
was more like fiddling around with macros, killing one mob, continue fiddling.

renew will make healing easier (at lvl 26)
thrash will make tanking easier (at lvl 28)

atonement will make things epic (at lvl 38)

resurrection would be cool (at lvl 18 - wtf bliz?)

[rfarris]

I hear you there. I just finished taking a 5-man group (Monk tank, resto shaman, ele shaman, arcane mage, surv hunter) from 1 - 80. I spent a *lot* of time fiddling with macros, adjusting windows, etc.

It took me a total of 2.5 days played, which bothered me a little bit until I realized that it was for 5 toons -- 0.5 days each toon. Not too bad. The entire job was done in dungeons (after level 10). I ran dungeons once to get the internal quests. Had to run Deadmines a couple of times to get up to 15 so I was eligible for the quests. Other than that, no questing. Hit 80 as I was killing Loken.

[Asterix]

Deadmines Clear *g*

Still having issues with tanking and healing because of the missing HOT and the missing AOE Aggro Ability.

I've noticed there is a glyph which allows you to cast renew while in shadow form.
Maybe a cool alternative for normal instances where you don't need tons of heal and can push through faster because of the +DPS while being a shadow.
I'll play the 4 chars as shadow priests with the gylph from lvl 25-38 and then test and compare it to atonement to see what will work better for me.

[Asterix]

Wailing Caverns clear.

Placed the group in Dalaran to have easy access to class- and profession-trainers.
I'll only level via LFG and when I'm rested.

Switched to 4 Shadow Priests, one of them with stopcasting and healing macros for my tank.
Simple basic castsequence rotation of shadow word pain and mindflay with [nochanneling]
so I can spam it - works excellent.

revived my old fun-group of 3 warlocks (thanks to Andreauk) for questing and fun
outside of instances while my main group is resting.