oFollow Discussion

[smalltanker]

So this morning I assisted Tiny in working out the kinks to get oFollow to identify the ISBoxer windows, BTW he did all the complicated stuff I was just the practice dummy. I haven't had this much fun since oQueue was in the early beta portions. After an hour or so of posting images and chatting in vent, after being interupted by a guy having some user vs oQueue issues, we were able to get oFollow to identify each of the ISBoxer windows. I was able to navigate around in Ogrimmar using it vice /follow and am currently setting up the macros on each toon to do the following:

/of master ------- Identifies the master for the minions to trail behind
/of slave -------- Identifies the minion windows/toons to trail behind the master when oFollow is activated for movement
/of follow ------- basically a replacement for /follow. I will have a macro that is broadcasted to each of my multiple windows that puts the toons into follow mode
/of break -------- cancels /of follow. This will probably be the top line in each of my shaman DPS macros and in a one line macro for my restodruid which doesn't have any spells set up in the keys 1-4 spots. This would enable me once I switch to enhancement to default back into using /IWT in my two step sequences

I plan on populating the other three toons with the abilities in the SHift 1 - 4 bar position basically as outlined above. That way I can on the fly shift click those and move out pretty smoothly.

I know Tiny has been using his oFollow app in BGs and has had a few disconnects. But when I was leveling last night I didn't hear him have any issues using it out in the world or in his BGs. I know WOW has had some server/DNS/connectivity issues this week and all that. I did have few of my minion movement keys get stuck trying to automove them forward but all in all they moved and followed pretty well in the troll section of Ogrimar on the bridges and other complicated terrain there. I think in BGs it will be much smoother especially if I take my time or keep to the clearer areas before using /IWT or regular key broadcasting for straffing and what not.

If I was a streamer/YouTuber I would post a demo of it but Mirai has a much cooler/sexy internet voice than I do and I sit beside a spastic lil-1st grader that loves chatting with me or being too loud when ever I don't want him to be. So maybe a few screen snaps later. Now lets see if I can get this to post as the last attempt was eaten by the internet monster. I am sure there are some better ways to build in the macros using the ISBoxer game assist general/DPS/control functions but I would settle for getting the low tech way to work first.

[Owltoid]

Any insight on how oFollow is mimicking /follow?

[MiRai]

For everyone who is interested... at the moment, oFollow comes with a one time cost of $30 and a warning label stating "use at your own risk".

884


I'm going to let all you others try it out first. :)

[heyaz]

Seems legit.

[zenga]

oFollow comes with a one time cost of $30

I was under the impression one could not charge for addons according to the WoW ToS?

[MiRai]

I was under the impression one could not charge for addons according to the WoW ToS?
The way to get around this is by charging for the program and providing the add-on for free (e.g. Zygor leveling guides).

[zenga]

The way to get around this is by charging for the program and providing the add-on for free (e.g. Zygor leveling guides).

So they basically charge for a self-extracting exe file, but the one purchasing can legally spread the actual addon around?

[flux1]

Total shot in the dark here, but my guess is the program is using information displayed by the addon to change the keys sent to the window in real time. The addon keeps track of the target you want to follow, then the program reads that information off the screen and adds either left or right turns to adjust while holding down the movement key. As the program itself does the adjustment and no keys are sent at all when you aren't holding a movement key, it would get around the automation rule. In theory that is.

[Owltoid]

Total shot in the dark here, but my guess is the program is using information displayed by the addon to change the keys sent to the window in real time. The addon keeps track of the target you want to follow, then the program reads that information off the screen and sends either left or right turns to adjust while holding down the movement key.

If that's the case then that breaches the automation line, in my opinion. Basically just a bot program at that point, with functionality limited to trying to follow a toon.

But, I don't know if that's how oFollow actually works - just commenting on if it did work like that.

[EaTCarbS]

Considering you have to run another program for this functionality to work, I would not use this.

[MiRai]

So they basically charge for a self-extracting exe file, but the one purchasing can legally spread the actual addon around?
Zygor's guide is strictly an add-on, but they're charging for the guide portion of it. If you know someone who has access to the Zygor add-on, then yes you can just install it and go. Whether that's "legal" or not, I have no idea and I won't pretend that I know the answer to that.

As for oFollow, it obviously looks like it relies on an external program to do some type of calculation for you, so I doubt you could just install the add-on and be able to use /follow as usual.

As per whether oFollow breaks the TOS is unknown at this point, so I have no issues discussing it until we find out more about it; but as the oFollow site states: Use at your own risk.

[Peri Helion]

Considering you have to run another program for this functionality to work, I would not use this.

I'm no lawyer or game ToS/EULA expert, but I am with you.

Even if this doesn't violate the ToS doesn't any method that restores a /follow like behavior have the potential to allow the same types of basic bots that they targeted by removing /follow in the first place? In which case you get banned for attempting to circumvent their changes, or they further nerf the macro/lua functionality to break this work around and who knows what else.

[Jafula]

As per whether oFollow breaks the TOS is unknown at this point, so I have no issues discussing it until we find out more about it; but as the oFollow site states: Use at your own risk.

As far as I am concerned it breaks TOS;

It is replicating something Blizzard removed. That's generally not a good idea.
It has to read game/screen memory (hence instructions for setting scale). That's what bots do.
It has to send movement keys that are not initiated by a human. Goes against Blizzard blue posts of what key presses are ok / not ok.

I wouldn't recommend anyone use this.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I am not sure you can change key strokes based upon real time information. I am wild guessing that the program reads where the master and slave are and then as someone stated adds turns to keep them in a /follow type of situation.

So you press "move" and the program changes that to move right or move left based upon real time information.

I am sure that an addon that allows you to face your enemy automatically would violate tos and I dont see a lot of different here.

As would an addon that ground targets automatically.

One of our disadvantages is that our macros are made days in advance and we cannot change them based upon real time information.

On the other hand one could argue it restores functionality that the devs did not wish to take out for boxers, and of course none has been banned for using it yet and no blue has stated it is illegal yet.


As I think about it what can be done is to preprogram 1000s of "move forward" "move left" "move right" in a spicific sequence that would for example take you from the Grave Yard in AV to the top of a spicific tower. As long as you press the button 1000 times or whatever and as long as its a static sequence that is programed prior to battle it should be legal, of course the amount of work that would take is insane but if one person did one route and another did another route .....

You have to start with a known faceing and you have to not touch your guys during the 1000 button movement and you have to have a way to make sure each press moves you the same each time. The grave yards will have a known facing and the hearth will but that about it. But all your guys would be in one bunch (no leader) which is kinda nice.

[Owltoid]

If the program gets data from WoW and reacts accordingly, it's automation. For comparison, ISBoxer doesn't have a clue what's going on in WoW - bot programs do.

[Palee]

You guys are threading on thin ice with this oFollow :)
The the way it sounds I'm pretty sure it falls into the category of botting.

[MiRai]

I broke apart the oFollow posts from the /follow thread since we were getting off topic. This makes it easier to keep the two discussions separate from each other.

EDIT:
To add...

I'm not saying that oFollow is safe to use and until I know more about it I personally wouldn't use it myself, but unless someone breaks down to purchase a $30 license then it's purely speculation at how it operates. The chances that Keyclone (Rob) himself will come here to let us know how 'safe' it is to use are close to zero.

Yes, Blizzard removed /follow from battlegrounds, but the community has found numerous workarounds -- some more "legit" than others -- but who's is to say that the current workarounds we have in place are safe to use? The mere fact that those who use said workarounds haven't been banned or suspended yet?

People bot for weeks, months, or years before they ever see a ban, but that doesn't mean it wasn't against the rules or "against the spirit of the game" to begin with. It's good to see the community come together and react to such a topic, but it's impossible to know exactly what is going on here without knowing all the facts.

[smalltanker]

I think we should all calm down a bit. I am sure many arguements could be said for Keyclone, Pwnboxer, and ISBoxer doing pseudo botting like functions by programming key translation, treating keys strokes as two or more different one when pressed, released, or pressed and released, etc... I am well aware that we all operate in the one keystroke = one action world as we are always under the microscope for being looked at for any automation of gameplay or references to botting, which I have never done in my WOW experience which has been going on almost non-stop since open-Beta. I was posting the info as I am previewing it only as an alternative to continually adjust my camera angle, popping between screens for a micro adjustment, etc... I still do a preponderance of broadcast straff, forward, backward and my ISBoxer hotkey broadcast for /IWT, and /IWT to my druid with glyph of stag which if you read my blog I have been leveling my butt off on for the last week or so, which as we are all well aware of is currently totally allowed functions. If there is a concern that I am by any way trying to automate my play or spread a potentially greyish bot program I would ask a mod to quickly remove my last 2-3 inputs to this thread and the following replys and will move on.

Thanks team and if required /apologies.

BTW thank MiRai for the awesome admining/moderating and moving this out of the other thread.

[Mosg2]

@Mod/Admin folks:

I'm really surprised you're letting this stay on the site. This is *exactly* how bot programs handle moving around in game except instead of running a pre-determined route it is getting the information from an addon. You don't even allow people to *name* botting software on this website, but you'll allow people to market a program that obviously is interfacing with the game in unintended ways to circumvent a feature that that was intentionally removed from the game.

This is the literal definition of what we should be policing off of the site.

/appalled

[Owltoid]

Mosg2 - do you know that's how oFollow works? I thought peeps were just throwing around ways that it could work, but nobody yet knows if that's actually how it works.

[MiRai]

I'm really surprised you're letting this stay on the site. This is *exactly* how bot programs handle moving around in game except instead of running a pre-determined route it is getting the information from an addon.
Those two don't really sound the same -- Pre-determined versus not pre-determined.


You don't even allow people to *name* botting software on this website
1) Botting is against the TOS of any MMO.
2) We don't want dual-boxing.com showing up in search engines associated with bot programs.
3) There's no reason to mention bot programs by name because... well, see #1.


but you'll allow people to market a program
If what's already been posted in this thread is aimed at marketing said software, then someone needs to fire the marketing team.


interfacing with the game in unintended ways to circumvent a feature that that was intentionally removed from the game.
Maybe we should also start deleting threads that mention the use of IWT with mounts because this also circumvents the same feature that was intentionally removed from certain aspects of the game. Unless, of course, you can get a public response from a blue stating that this is okay and acceptable use of game mechanics.

The same could be said about oQueue. Blizzard broke its functionality back in 5.1 and publicly released a statement (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7199643338) about why such add-ons are not allowed. However, a workaround was eventually released and the add-on is still being hosted on an official site (http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/oqueue).


/appalled
Really? You're appalled (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/appalled) that d-b, a site aimed at multiboxing video games, would attempt to have an educated discussion about a tool which was just released and is designed for multiboxers?

Fact of the matter is... There's a new program named oFollow which is less than 24 hours old and was just released to the public. oFollow was created by Keyclone (author of another software for multiboxing with the same name) and is marketed as a tool that will allow you to use the /follow command (or similar function) in areas where /follow doesn't currently work.

If anything, this thread should stay open and active because if oFollow is truly deemed to be against the TOS, then this thread will help educate those who are tempted to use it.

[Mosg2]

Those two don't really sound the same -- Pre-determined versus not pre-determined.

Botting programs have pre-determined waypoints that they run through and then cause your character to move through them like wickets. This program does the same thing except it dynamically generates the waypoints. Pre-determined is not the crux of the issue--it's having a program that automatically moves you through wickets. You're being disingenuous (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disingenuous).



1) Botting is against the TOS of any MMO.
2) We don't want dual-boxing.com showing up in search engines associated with bot programs.
3) There's no reason to mention bot programs by name because... well, see #1.

My point is that given how strict the site is about botting the mods would set the bar a little higher.



Maybe we should also start deleting threads that mention the use of IWT with mounts because this also circumvents the same feature that was intentionally removed from certain aspects of the game. Unless, of course, you can get a public response from a blue stating that this is okay and acceptable use of game mechanics.

Actually, I think you should. Heyaz was given a 72 hour suspension on all ten of his accounts for doing this in BGs and the GM stated in no uncertain terms that it was a violation of the ToS.



The same could be said about oQueue. Blizzard broke its functionality back in 5.1 and publicly released a statement (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7199643338) about why such add-ons are not allowed. However, a workaround was eventually released and the add-on is still being hosted on an official site (http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/oqueue).

So, you're saying that despite Blizzard explicitly stating that they removed the functionality intentionally and disapprove of its use... it's still ok to do it? We should support it? Also, Curse is not an official website.



Really? You're appalled (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/appalled) that d-b, a site aimed at multiboxing video games, would attempt to have an educated discussion about a tool which was just released and is designed for multiboxers?

Fact of the matter is... There's a new program named oFollow which is less than 24 hours old and was just released to the public. oFollow was created by Keyclone (author of another software for multiboxing with the same name) and is marketed as a tool that will allow you to use the /follow command (or similar function) in areas where /follow doesn't currently work.

If anything, this thread should stay open and active because if oFollow is truly deemed to be against the TOS, then this thread will help educate those who are tempted to use it.

This program obviously violates the ToS. It's not even close. It automates behavior, let alone behavior that was intentionally and willfully removed from the game. We shouldn't be discussing it on this web-site. oFollow further strengthens the "Multiboxing=botting" thought process, one which could eventually lead to multi-boxing itself being outside the ToS. I feel strongly that we should be conservative on this topic.

[Owltoid]

Mosg2 - do you know that's what oFollow does? Otherwise are you suggesting banning discussion on any product that may have unknown tech to produce something?

Regarding the ban for IWT, you'll notice there is quite a bit of discussion regarding some saying you should avoid the behavior and some saying that it may be ok in a limited fashion. Are you suggesting banning discussion once one boxer has received a suspension for some behavior? We all know they errantly throw out bans lately.

oFollow seems fishy to me, but as MiRai said it's so new that you can't throw the baby out with the water. I'd say give it some time for peeps to have actual complaints instead of pure hearsay.

[Mosg2]

@Owltoid:
What I'm saying is that once Blizzard makes it clear that a particular behavior is not ok that we then do not support it on the website. Heyaz petitioned his 72 hour suspension and got an email back with zero sympathy. That doesn't seem like it's a gray area to me.

You admit yourself that oFollow seems fishy--It's because you know underneath your desire to have /follow back in BGs that this type of program flagrantly violates the ToS.

[Alge]

This program obviously violates the ToS. It's not even close. It automates behavior, let alone behavior that was intentionally and willfully removed from the game. We shouldn't be discussing it on this web-site. oFollow further strengthens the "Multiboxing=botting" thought process, one which could eventually lead to multi-boxing itself being outside the ToS. I feel strongly that we should be conservative on this topic.
This sums up my feelings on the matter as well. The author of the product in question makes a "use at your own risk" disclaimer. That is enough to damn it in my eyes.

[Owltoid]

You admit yourself that oFollow seems fishy--It's because you know underneath your desire to have /follow back in BGs that this type of program flagrantly violates the ToS.

I've been successfully doing BGs without follow for a couple of weeks now and I have no desire to use oFollow, legit or otherwise. I just don't want to call a product bad before there is any proof. Tiny has been a great developer for the multiboxing community and think he deserves some latitude to at least wait until someone can actually comment on the program.

[smalltanker]

I don't know the marketing phrases or how it works as I have yet to get into a BG due to leveling as real life issues. Not marketing anything, meerly discussing with like minded enthusiasts that share the same hobby. This tool/application/program (we will settle on a buzzword phrase later I am sure (hopefully not Bot program)) I thought was originally an addon as that is where I downloaded and saved it to the wow-interface folder. Seems it is a stand alone paid product much like Keyclone, ISBoxer and PWNBoxer in that regard. I am still driving a toon and issueing commands and then turning off commands much like follow and IWT break from time to time in the game world with the spinning characters orbiting a target or running off willy nilly or need to be broken as we position our toons for an incounter (can't have that healer standing right behind the tank on a boss/rarespawn fight now can we.

As Owltoid has depicted in his stream and other venues boxing is capable but at a reduced capacity for teams using IWT, straff, forward and backward movement.

And yes the "Use at your own risk" is a good disclamer, much like you find on Over the counter medicine, after market car parts, and other products. Is it a catch all so a coder potentially doesn't have to refund money if a play style becomes non-supported? If last month taught us anything it is something breaks and the community wants it subscription money back 3-5 days later. I do not want to condone exploiting but I am basically planning on exploiting my Glyph of the Stag to get around a BG... I know I will be middle fighting in AV, AB, IOC as I can't go inside if my team is all jacked up due to losing some small utility. Once I get my gear I will probably just be using 5s in arena anyway plus solo-queueing for RBGs with the rest of my team to cap out.

I do appreciate the discussion and the emotions. Not here to advertise, but to discuss. MiRai has been doing a good job of keeping us focused and end of the day each boxer uses their own set up, their own gaming software (ISBoxer, PWNBoxer, Keyclone, etc...), own Mods (JAMBA, etc...) and own skill. And even then we have been getting banned for using our work arounds. I don't want anyone to lose their ability to play so if each and everyone thinks there is a valid grey area that this is closer to botting or an automated game play then pay attention to that "use at your own risk" disclamer and stick with what you are comfortable with. I do know that my toon doesn't go anywhere unless I am actively at my keyboard pushing a key (I don't have auto-run enabled on my current mouse (unlike my old World of Warcraft mouse (Maybe that was automated game play with 3rd party software too...))) and I don't use a logitech programmable keyboard. Each of my key presses is my own and sometimes (okay aalot of the time) I have to manually herd my five cats/spirit wolves in the PVE world even with /follow active.

So continue to discuss and do what you are comfortable with. I hope to be 90 soon and back in arena's before 5.3 if I can get my weapon, trinkets and non-crafted gear.

[MiRai]

Those two don't really sound the same -- Pre-determined versus not pre-determined.

Botting programs have pre-determined waypoints that they run through and then cause your character to move through them like wickets. This program does the same thing except it dynamically generates the waypoints. Pre-determined is not the crux of the issue--it's having a program that automatically moves you through wickets. You're being disingenuous (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disingenuous).
The problem is that you're making a baseless (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/baseless) claim (my sentence is their example of usage!) and just throwing around words as if they're facts. You make it sound as if you've been using the program for awhile now and know exactly how it works. Have you used it? Do you own a licensed copy?

If so, then I will acknowledge your claims; but if not, then please stop making things up.




1) Botting is against the TOS of any MMO.
2) We don't want dual-boxing.com showing up in search engines associated with bot programs.
3) There's no reason to mention bot programs by name because... well, see #1.

My point is that given how strict the site is about botting the mods would set the bar a little higher.
How high would you like the bar to be set?

It sounds like you're asking for this thread to be deleted and for all future threads to be immediately locked or deleted because the content within them might fall under the 'fishy' category.

Where does one draw the line?

When talk about botting gets censored around here, it's most likely because it was used in a similar context to one of the following examples:
"My friend uses <insert name of bot> and says he's never been banned."
"I used to use <insert name of bot> back in the day, but blah blah blah..."
"If you check the <insert name of bot> forums you'll see that there was a recent ban wave."

As for bots... There is no discussion to be had about bots -- They're against the TOS of every single game. At this point in time it's unknown how oFollow operates, although you seem to be extremely adamant that it is a bot, regardless of the fact that you have never actually used the program.




Maybe we should also start deleting threads that mention the use of IWT with mounts because this also circumvents the same feature that was intentionally removed from certain aspects of the game. Unless, of course, you can get a public response from a blue stating that this is okay and acceptable use of game mechanics.

Actually, I think you should. Heyaz was given a 72 hour suspension on all ten of his accounts for doing this in BGs and the GM stated in no uncertain terms that it was a violation of the ToS.
Incorrect (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49099-The-follow-workarounds-BAD-IDEA). He received a suspension for using IWT with both the mount vendors and the Ethereal Soul Trader pet. No one, as of yet, has received a suspension for using IWT with mounts while in a battleground.

Also, the thread I linked stays open and available to the public regardless of the fact that it lists possible ways to exploit and circumvent /follow in battlegrounds. That thread, like this one, is informative to the community.




The same could be said about oQueue. Blizzard broke its functionality back in 5.1 and publicly released a statement (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7199643338) about why such add-ons are not allowed. However, a workaround was eventually released and the add-on is still being hosted on an official site (http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/oqueue).

So, you're saying that despite Blizzard explicitly stating that they removed the functionality intentionally and disapprove of its use... it's still ok to do it? We should support it? Also, Curse is not an official website.
I never said it was an official Blizzard site, but Curse abides by Blizzard's TOS. Is Curse in the wrong for hosting oQueue? If you believe so, feel free to submit your feedback to them, but oQueue gets installed into your AddOns folder and runs off of legitimate Lua code approved by Blizzard -- No external programs.




Really? You're appalled (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/appalled) that d-b, a site aimed at multiboxing video games, would attempt to have an educated discussion about a tool which was just released and is designed for multiboxers?

Fact of the matter is... There's a new program named oFollow which is less than 24 hours old and was just released to the public. oFollow was created by Keyclone (author of another software for multiboxing with the same name) and is marketed as a tool that will allow you to use the /follow command (or similar function) in areas where /follow doesn't currently work.

If anything, this thread should stay open and active because if oFollow is truly deemed to be against the TOS, then this thread will help educate those who are tempted to use it.

This program obviously violates the ToS. It's not even close. It automates behavior, let alone behavior that was intentionally and willfully removed from the game. We shouldn't be discussing it on this web-site. oFollow further strengthens the "Multiboxing=botting" thought process, one which could eventually lead to multi-boxing itself being outside the ToS. I feel strongly that we should be conservative on this topic.
Again, you're just tossing out words as if they're facts and you've never even used the program. If people weren't being conservative about this topic then there would be members chiming in about how they've already purchased the program and how legitimately legit it is.

However, I see the complete opposite happening in this thread -- No one seems interested enough to want to purchase it and try it out.

What I don't understand is that you're attacking this site and its moderation, rules, and the way it operates. You're saying that because this particular thread exists, our overall integrity as multiboxers is currently at stake and it should be immediately removed, when the only justification you have for any of these claims is that you can't explain how the program itself works, so it must be a bot, and therefore, must be immediately censored on this site. It would be appalling to think that this site would immediately and completely censor a multiboxing-related program without even knowing how it works.

It's great that you feel so strongly about protecting the members of this community from things that may endanger their accounts, but no one who has posted in this thread, not even yourself, knows how this tool truly operates. So far, everyone is in agreement that it is "fishy", but this is a discussion board where we can discuss these things. People use this site to discuss all kinds of multiboxing-related material, and right now, oFollow is currently being discussed in this thread and on this site until further notice.

With all of this being said, it should be clear from my prior posts that I'm not defending the use of oFollow as a program, I'm defending the ability to hold an open discussion on this site without expecting the mods to swoop in and lock it for absolutely no reason; because at this point, there's no reason to stop the discussion of oFollow.

[ebony]

I wish rob would come back and give us some more info on this, But what it looks like it does is center the mouse on that window and uses click to move. To be fair if it does not might be a good way to box bg's

To be fair i would wait out for a few more months.

[Shodokan]

Judging from the way it is described it does indeed "seem" to be a "automation" of click to move of sorts due to the scale tweaking that needs to be done.

I'll stay away for a bit, but maybe it will be deemed legit, dunno.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I think we should allow discussion of any software actually but surely its ok to discuss this new software. I am with Miria on this one.

If its click to move I need to think it over more.

We clearly have insufficient information to make any kind of intelligent conclusions at this point.

[ebony]

Oh come on already! We Been doing stuff blizzard has not wanted in a long time here's a few.

,,,,,,,,,,, timing got removed. We find a way round it.

ctm-itw had been a topic for a long time. Not what it was made for! (and i check every ptr patch waiting for it to get removed)

Spamming loads off keys at the Same time you get banned for saying this on the other site (or topics removed) dark topic still yet we all still use it. the "one key press at a time". is it ok to use?


All the top stuff had nerver been oked by blizzard and has been use at own risk not saying we should use ofollow if its automated but bending the rules is what we good at. and if all this does is finds a system blizzard forgot about then its all good.

And the guy got banned was more the ten boxing they are saying is super unfair. some changes to the pvp queing system will make this a impossible.
But taking them a lot longer to fix. They stopped Oque to stop players joining over five and Yet ten boxers still do it!!!! (sorry off topic). so beating the five man queuing system is what that guy got banned for. From the talk i has to CS the other day (they can not talk about a 3rd party account but all they said he was not banned for what your saying that is just bending the rules using mounts/soul trader/noncombat pets/druids Car't say you will not get banned for not doing it but nice find is all i got told.)

He said that they are looking at ways to add follow back in the game but like you been told its to stop the bots and they did not want to remove it in the 1st place its was the only opt they had as a fast fix. (as any group that ques up is unfair in randoms)

[HPAVC]

I thought for sure when reading through this that this was an April Fools post. Still hope it is.

[Pazgaz]

I wish people stop mentioning sending more than one key at the same time as something blizzard frowns upon. It's just the same as using 5 fingers on the keyboard at the same time...

[Feehza]

i looked into ofollow

short summary of the functionality:

- get x,y values via GetPlayerMapPosition
- set dot frames and the color for it via blablaframe:SetTexture(r,g,b)


function of.dots.set( ndx, r, g, b )
...
blabla
...

of.ui.dotframe.dots[ndx].texture:SetTexture( r/255.0, g/255.0, b/255.0, 1.0 ) ;
...
blabalala
...
end

- then (as many others assumed) the binary reads out the colors of the dot and trying to reach to the position of the main via movement keys


i wont upload the whole addon and binary for a public download.
Screenshot:

Attachment 885 (http://www.imagebanana.com/view/mxn2w53n/ofollow.jpg)

[Shodokan]

i looked into ofollow

short summary of the functionality:

- get x,y values via GetPlayerMapPosition
- set dot frames and the color for it via blablaframe:SetTexture(r,g,b)


- then (as many others assumed) the binary reads out the colors of the dot and trying to reach to the position of the main via movement keys


i wont upload the whole addon and binary for a public download.
Screenshot:

885

Overlays in game makes the addon illegal, not to mention the fact that if it interacts with a game based on the overlays that is automation regardless of if it uses movement keys or click to move. Blizzard banned people who were using the raid mechanic overlay one back in ICC (i forget the name) and IIRC disabled the API to do so.

[Feehza]

of course, ofollow is against TOS

[MiRai]

And there's your answer.

This is exactly why threads like this should exist not be deleted or censored, so that we can figure out whether or not something is allowed.

Kinda reminds me of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1o45Fc7h2g).

[Santa]

I don't understand how would anyone do this kind of application and hope they would get away with it while multiboxing bgs?

I mean I was getting harassed by gms like crazy in 5.1 while doing battlegrounds.

No doubt this program would result in bans in a record time.

[Shodokan]

Also for the addon to do overlays... you have to unlock the API to allow it which is also against TOS. (much like some people remove locked API for scripting their rotation etc like you could back in WOTLK)

[Feehza]

Also for the addon to do overlays... you have to unlock the API to allow it which is also against TOS. (much like some people remove locked API for scripting their rotation etc like you could back in WOTLK)

Its not like these addons who use 3d projected textures. This is locked since LK or Cata. ofollow use standard frames

[Ualaa]

I don't know how it works... but I know you're not supposed to charge for an addon.

If the program is a licensing device of some sort, to all the addon to work...
But doesn't actually do anything else.

And the addon, which uses Blizzard provided API achieves its' magic via the addon system...
It could very well be removed tomorrow, for bypassing a feature which was removed.
But then again, so could IWT -- whether with a Vendor, a Mount or a player Druid in Stag Form.

If it uses Blizzard addon code (the Blizzard API) to do its' functionality, it is allowed within Warcraft until such time as Blizzard changes their API to disallow whatever functions the addon uses.

IS Boxer has the ability to withhold the sending of keys, despite having the keys pushed.
So if this program/addon were to broadcast your movement key (on the main) to W + A + D on the slaves, and then withheld the A and D on occasion... to correct your aim...
As long as everything that determined positioning was done with the Blizzard API (functionality provided for addons to use), it would be entirely fine.



On the other hand, if it reads memory or otherwise scans the game, then it probably isn't going to be allowed long term.

I could also see including the program, as a requirement for the addon to function, entirely so that it is the program that is being charged for... and the addon is free.

I don't know enough of how this works to comment.
If it relies on the API, whether that functionality of the API is being used as intended or not, then it is fine to use.

Again though, that is speculation.
Keyclone has been legit forever, and a part of the boxing community far longer than myself.
That he has developed it, and not someone who is new/unknown to the community, supports that it might not be against the ToS/EULA.
But I don't really know...

[Khatovar]

Oh come on already! We Been doing stuff blizzard has not wanted in a long time here's a few.

There's a VAST difference between doing stuff "Blizzard doesn't want" and using standard functions to serve our purposes. If Blizzard doesn't want us to use something, they'll remove the functionality, tell us "We don't like how this was being used" and leave it at that, just like they did with the old Decursive, whispercasting, minimap ping-targetting etc.



,,,,,,,,,,, timing got removed. We find a way round it.

I'm still waiting for Blizz to remove the ability to use armor by slot number or allow it to have a failure action so if it can't be used it's just like trying to use a spell you don't have. Until then, it's fair game using something that is accepted by the standard macro interface. And even if it does go, people will just switch to using some of the other methods, like "timing" it through castsequences.


ctm-itw had been a topic for a long time. Not what it was made for! (and i check every ptr patch waiting for it to get removed)

I hardly consider that a "questionable" tactic. We're using it for exactly what it's meant for, movement and interaction.


Spamming loads off keys at the Same time you get banned for saying this on the other site (or topics removed) dark topic still yet we all still use it. the "one key press at a time". is it ok to use?

I'll keep my mouth shut about why it would be taboo "elsewhere" but I've yet to see anyone, at any time, banned or actioned for sending too many keys at once in this manner. Could you get actioned for flooding the servers? Sure, but I think you'd really have to go out of your way to create a hotkey that would send that much information to the servers. For our purposes, we have the ability to duplicate this with ingame macros by using /click.



All the top stuff had nerver been oked by blizzard and has been use at own risk not saying we should use ofollow if its automated but bending the rules is what we good at. and if all this does is finds a system blizzard forgot about then its all good.

Everything you've mentioned is wholly doable within the game using Blizzard's own macro system (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/46687-bot-i-think-so?p=360338&viewfull=1#post360338). It doesn't need to be given a stamp of approval for us to use it, Blizzard already gave their stamp of approval when they added it to the game for any player to use.

This, IMO, is not the same thing as what oFollow is trying to do. Blizzard very deliberately removed the ability for people to use the follow command in BGs. Then they came out and said "Hey, we did this on purpose, we don't want people to use /follow in BGs anymore." And oFollow is NOT using an alternative method as provided by an ingame function, it requires the download and use of an external, paid program that reads information on the game client to automatically adjust and move a specific toon in a very specific path to get to a goal location. There is NO ingame function that can duplicate this. It is not now, nor has it ever been, possible to do what oFollow is trying to do via any combination of ingame actions.



i looked into ofollow

short summary of the functionality:

- get x,y values via GetPlayerMapPosition
- set dot frames and the color for it via blablaframe:SetTexture(r,g,b)


- then (as many others assumed) the binary reads out the colors of the dot and trying to reach to the position of the main via movement keys


i wont upload the whole addon and binary for a public download.
Screenshot:

Attachment 885 (http://www.imagebanana.com/view/mxn2w53n/ofollow.jpg)

Thank you for digging in to this Feehza. This works exactly how I expected it to when I read the instructions.

[Shodokan]

I don't know how it works... but I know you're not supposed to charge for an addon.

If the program is a licensing device of some sort, to all the addon to work...
But doesn't actually do anything else.

And the addon, which uses Blizzard provided API achieves its' magic via the addon system...
It could very well be removed tomorrow, for bypassing a feature which was removed.
But then again, so could IWT -- whether with a Vendor, a Mount or a player Druid in Stag Form.

If it uses Blizzard addon code (the Blizzard API) to do its' functionality, it is allowed within Warcraft until such time as Blizzard changes their API to disallow whatever functions the addon uses.

IS Boxer has the ability to withhold the sending of keys, despite having the keys pushed.
So if this program/addon were to broadcast your movement key (on the main) to W + A + D on the slaves, and then withheld the A and D on occasion... to correct your aim...
As long as everything that determined positioning was done with the Blizzard API (functionality provided for addons to use), it would be entirely fine.



On the other hand, if it reads memory or otherwise scans the game, then it probably isn't going to be allowed long term.

I could also see including the program, as a requirement for the addon to function, entirely so that it is the program that is being charged for... and the addon is free.

I don't know enough of how this works to comment.
If it relies on the API, whether that functionality of the API is being used as intended or not, then it is fine to use.

Again though, that is speculation.
Keyclone has been legit forever, and a part of the boxing community far longer than myself.
That he has developed it, and not someone who is new/unknown to the community, supports that it might not be against the ToS/EULA.
But I don't really know...

We won't know unless someone gets banned for it.

[ebony]

There's a VAST difference between doing stuff "Blizzard doesn't want" and using standard functions to serve our purposes. If Blizzard doesn't want us to use something, they'll remove the functionality, tell us "We don't like how this was being used" and leave it at that, just like they did with the old Decursive, whispercasting, minimap ping-targetting etc.




I'm still waiting for Blizz to remove the ability to use armor by slot number or allow it to have a failure action so if it can't be used it's just like trying to use a spell you don't have. Until then, it's fair game using something that is accepted by the standard macro interface. And even if it does go, people will just switch to using some of the other methods, like "timing" it through castsequences.



I hardly consider that a "questionable" tactic. We're using it for exactly what it's meant for, movement and interaction.



I'll keep my mouth shut about why it would be taboo "elsewhere" but I've yet to see anyone, at any time, banned or actioned for sending too many keys at once in this manner. Could you get actioned for flooding the servers? Sure, but I think you'd really have to go out of your way to create a hotkey that would send that much information to the servers. For our purposes, we have the ability to duplicate this with ingame macros by using /click.




Everything you've mentioned is wholly doable within the game using Blizzard's own macro system (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/46687-bot-i-think-so?p=360338&viewfull=1#post360338). It doesn't need to be given a stamp of approval for us to use it, Blizzard already gave their stamp of approval when they added it to the game for any player to use.

This, IMO, is not the same thing as what oFollow is trying to do. Blizzard very deliberately removed the ability for people to use the follow command in BGs. Then they came out and said "Hey, we did this on purpose, we don't want people to use /follow in BGs anymore." And oFollow is NOT using an alternative method as provided by an ingame function, it requires the download and use of an external, paid program that reads information on the game client to automatically adjust and move a specific toon in a very specific path to get to a goal location. There is NO ingame function that can duplicate this. It is not now, nor has it ever been, possible to do what oFollow is trying to do via any combination of ingame actions.




Thank you for digging in to this Feehza. This works exactly how I expected it to when I read the instructions.


yes am with you on most the stuff here. they said they never removed follow because of us. they just said there ok with us not doing it.

[Ronburgundy]

All I can say is that I have used oFollow, and it works great. Yet, if you are the kind who doesn't speed on the highway, I would heed the warning on the site.

[Owltoid]

All I can say is that I have used oFollow, and it works great. Yet, if you are the kind who doesn't speed on the highway, I would heed the warning on the site.

Do you have the same feelings about bots to get you honor?

[Peri Helion]

Has anyone tried asking Blizzard?

I see from the various Follow threads there are members of this community that have contacted Blizzard directly in the past to determine if what they were doing were acceptable. I appreciate Ron taking one for the team and giving it a try, but even if he never gets banned it isnt conclusive.

I also see this degenerating into a marketing war (not on these pages though) as people with a vested economic interest in either elevating their own product or denegrating the author of their competitors software begin to make this personal and use a lot of adjectives and invective without any definitive statements from a clear and unbiased party.

[Ronburgundy]

Do you have the same feelings about bots to get you honor?

No.

Regardless of whatever method I want to use, or you want to use, to get my toons from point A to point B, when my toons get there I am in control of the combat functions, I decide who to attack, and how to attack them. A honor bot, (assuming one that doesn't just stand in place and jump), makes all of its decisions without any real time human interaction.

I am not going to get into it with anyone on the technical intricacies of how oFollow works, I rest my head on the pure fact that when I look behind my main, my slaves are right behind me, or they are stuck on a mailbox, or a fence post, and it functions the same, if not alittle worse than /follow used to. If oFollow gave the player some new kind of miraculous new ability that /follow didn't I would feel differently, but it doesn't it just does what we used to do with /follow, regardless of how it does it thats what its doing.

[Owltoid]

No.

Regardless of whatever method I want to use, or you want to use, to get my toons from point A to point B, when my toons get there I am in control of the combat functions, I decide who to attack, and how to attack them. A honor bot, (assuming one that doesn't just stand in place and jump), makes all of its decisions without any real time human interaction.

I am not going to get into it with anyone on the technical intricacies of how oFollow works, I rest my head on the pure fact that when I look behind my main, my slaves are right behind me, or they are stuck on a mailbox, or a fence post, and it functions the same, if not alittle worse than /follow used to. If oFollow gave the player some new kind of miraculous new ability that /follow didn't I would feel differently, but it doesn't it just does what we used to do with /follow, regardless of how it does it thats what its doing.

I ask because your comments imply that those who avoid oFollow are just being overly paranoid and goody two-shoes. In reality, if oFollow works as others have described, then it's simply a gimped botting program. I asked if you were ok with honor botting and your response makes very little sense - you're not ok with it because those programs because they make all decisions, yet you're ok with oFollow that makes movement decisions. Your rationale is that /follow used to have that functionality so it is ok now, willfully disregarding that Blizzard removed that functionality. I assume that you'd be ok with a program that allowed decursing to work the way it did with addons in Vanilla, even though Blizzard explicitly removed the functionality because it made healing too easy.

The reality is this is a botting program, and I'd be surprised if you're not caught relatively soon. I actually hope you do. You can BG very effectively without /follow, but if you want to do something that is clearly cheating, then I have no respect for any of your "accomplishments" in WoW.

[Owltoid]

Has anyone tried asking Blizzard?

I see from the various Follow threads there are members of this community that have contacted Blizzard directly in the past to determine if what they were doing were acceptable. I appreciate Ron taking one for the team and giving it a try, but even if he never gets banned it isnt conclusive.

I also see this degenerating into a marketing war (not on these pages though) as people with a vested economic interest in either elevating their own product or denegrating the author of their competitors software begin to make this personal and use a lot of adjectives and invective without any definitive statements from a clear and unbiased party.

Blizzard very rarely "approves" something, and often you don't know until bans start coming out. If you want to ask Blizzard "is it ok to have another program read the binary so that my slaves will move on their own?" then go ahead - waste of time for something that is clearly against the rules.

There is no marketing war here, unless you're suggesting that others are trying to market their botting program over oFollow. This isn't a ISBoxer vs Keyclone vs HKN vs PwnBoxer debate - this is a debate whether a gimped botting program is ok because it simulates functionality that existed in the past.

[Ronburgundy]

I ask because your comments imply that those who avoid oFollow are just being overly paranoid and goody two-shoes. In reality, if oFollow works as others have described, then it's simply a gimped botting program. I asked if you were ok with honor botting and your response makes very little sense - you're not ok with it because those programs because they make all decisions, yet you're ok with oFollow that makes movement decisions. Your rationale is that /follow used to have that functionality so it is ok now, willfully disregarding that Blizzard removed that functionality. I assume that you'd be ok with a program that allowed decursing to work the way it did with addons in Vanilla, even though Blizzard explicitly removed the functionality because it made healing too easy.

The reality is this is a botting program, and I'd be surprised if you're not caught relatively soon. I actually hope you do. You can BG very effectively without /follow, but if you want to do something that is clearly cheating, then I have no respect for any of your "accomplishments" in WoW.

"Accomplishments"?. Sorry, but my accomplishments in life, are not derived from a fictitious virtual world in which I participate for the sole sake of my own enjoyment.

Thanks for describing my own post to me though, just incase I didn't understand what I wrote when I wrote it.

If anyone doesn't want to use oFollow. THEN DON'T! I wasn't saying that not using it makes you a goody two-shoes, I was saying that its an untested resolution to our current situation that might have negative effects from its use. SO YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES, MUCH LIKE SPEEDING ON THE HIGHWAY.

But thanks for trying to make wild tangents about the subject, and making subtle attacks on me.

I'm also confused why you are attacking my opinion. That is my opinion, if that is how I feel, and you feel differently then congratulations. Your not going to change my opinion on the subject. You also don't see my trying to persuade people to have the same mentality as myself.

I merely stated that the Program works as it is intended. Regardless of the possible negative effects it may also have.

I am not sure why I even replied to your inquirey about the botting program. It has nothing to do with whether oFollow accomplishes a mimic of /follow effectively or not. Which was the subject of my original reply, that it does indeed accomplish it effectively, regardless of the possible "legality" issues.

If anyone wants to try and use it, you can find help in the wow.publicvent on configuration and useful macros.

But use it at your own risk.

[zenga]

All I can say is that I have used oFollow, and it works great. Yet, if you are the kind who doesn't speed on the highway, I would heed the warning on the site.

There are gradations of speeding on the highway. If you are allowed to do 120km/h and follow the traffic that is doing 130km/h on a bright weekend day, then you can't compare that with a joker doing 200km/h who comes back at 5 am from the pub. There is a clear difference there, just like there is a clear difference between using an available feature that might be not intended and clear automation.

[Ronburgundy]

The inhabitants of this thread obviously don't want to discuss oFollow, and would rather nit pick at posts because they were not written word for word how they would have written them.

Did you really take my "speeding on the highway" metaphor literally? How dense are you people? It was a metaphor to make a point. There are inherited risks that you must accept if you take part in both activities, using oFollow, and Speeding on the Highway. Holy crap.


...just like there is a clear difference between using an available feature that might be not intended and clear automation.

Well, it doesn't seem that blizz is going to distinguish between the two. The way I see it is if we box in bg's they are going to try and stop it, regardless of how.

[Peri Helion]

There is no marketing war here,

Correct, I said not here


I also see this degenerating into a marketing war (not on these pages though) emphasis added

Like many who read this thread I look at lots of different sites and even though this thread has stayed pretty focused on the product and facts other sites seem to be making a point of attacking the author and attaching labels and names to the product and author, rather than discussing facts.


Blizzard very rarely "approves" something, and often you don't know until bans start coming out. If you want to ask Blizzard "is it ok to have another program read the binary so that my slaves will move on their own?" then go ahead - waste of time for something that is clearly against the rules

I hear what you are saying, and surely if you formed the question like that you would get blank stares, but perhaps something like ....

"Is an addon that restores /follow functionality to BGs prohibited?"

.... wouldn't be a waste of breath? Or at least save future wasted breath put into speculation on this thread, or any others like it when another solution is proposed?

(Also, I assumed that since some people early in the original /follow thread alluded to direct communication to Blizzard some in this community had better credibility/recognition and therefore access to Blizzard, but I could certainly be wrong).

[Owltoid]

I hear what you are saying, and surely if you formed the question like that you would get blank stares, but perhaps something like ....

"Is an addon that restores /follow functionality to BGs prohibited?"

That's not an accurate description. oFollow is not just an addon, but a combination of an external program and an addon. If it was simply an addon that used LUA code, I don't think you'd have anyone opposed. If it was just LUA code then you may have people saying Blizzard will remove the functionality in the future, but you wouldn't be accused of cheating (I am making that accusation of the users who use oFollow).

Now that it seems like the community has a decent understanding of oFollow, and that it does use an external program to interact with WoW and move toons accordingly, I support the "ban discussion of the product" bandwagon. It's a botting program - just not a very functional one.

BTW, the other site has a similar conclusion - Tim has stated that he believes it to be a botting program and it should not be used.

[Fat Tire]

"Accomplishments"?. Sorry, but my accomplishments in life, are not derived from a fictitious virtual world in which I participate for the sole sake of my own enjoyment.



I dont care about ofollow, follow in random bgs or even random bgs. I just quoted this statement because I could not agree with it more.

You guys that like random bgs might want to pay attention to the ptr. Role checks and the end of oqueue in randoms.

Holinka ‏@holinka (https://twitter.com/holinka)30 Mar (https://twitter.com/holinka/status/318222633701363712)
@Wiredmana (https://twitter.com/Wiredmana) Agreed, Premades ruin unrated battlegrounds. Working on making it difficult to do. Sad a cool addon like oQueue does this


Holinka ‏@holinka (https://twitter.com/holinka)30 Mar (https://twitter.com/holinka/status/318231552012218368)
@CuddlyKittyHugs (https://twitter.com/CuddlyKittyHugs) @Wiredmana (https://twitter.com/Wiredmana) I've said a few times, the only part of oQueue I don't like is circumventing premade restrictions

[Owltoid]

I dont care about ofollow, follow in random bgs or even random bgs. I just quoted this statement because I could not agree with it more.

You guys that like random bgs might want to pay attention to the ptr. Role checks and the end of oqueue in randoms.

Holinka ‏@holinka (https://twitter.com/holinka)30 Mar (https://twitter.com/holinka/status/318222633701363712)
@Wiredmana (https://twitter.com/Wiredmana) Agreed, Premades ruin unrated battlegrounds. Working on making it difficult to do. Sad a cool addon like oQueue does this


Holinka ‏@holinka (https://twitter.com/holinka)30 Mar (https://twitter.com/holinka/status/318231552012218368)
@CuddlyKittyHugs (https://twitter.com/CuddlyKittyHugs) @Wiredmana (https://twitter.com/Wiredmana) I've said a few times, the only part of oQueue I don't like is circumventing premade restrictions


Yes, yes, we've been through this "accomplishments" debate before, which is the whole reason I put it in parentheses. Next time I'll put it in italics and pink font to help clear confusion.

It's premature to call the end of oQueue. Hopefully it's just the end of greater than 5 man random BG premades. Blizzard doesn't care about an addon that helps you find 4 players to play with cross servers, they care about bringing more than 5 in a coordinated fashion.

But you already knew all this stuff, and it doesn't belong in this thread.

[Peri Helion]

I hear what you are saying, and surely if you formed the question like that you would get blank stares, but perhaps something like ....

"Is an addon that restores /follow functionality to BGs prohibited?"

.... wouldn't be a waste of breath? Or at least save future wasted breath put into speculation on this thread, or any others like it when another solution is proposed?


That's not an accurate description. oFollow is not just an addon, but a combination of an external program and an addon. If it was simply an addon that used LUA code, I don't think you'd have anyone opposed. If it was just LUA code then you may have people saying Blizzard will remove the functionality in the future, but you wouldn't be accused of cheating (I am making that accusation of the users who use oFollow).

Now that it seems like the community has a decent understanding of oFollow, and that it does use an external program to interact with WoW and move toons accordingly, I support the "ban discussion of the product" bandwagon. It's a botting program - just not a very functional one.

BTW, the other site has a similar conclusion - Tim has stated that he believes it to be a botting program and it should not be used.

Owltoid – Note the bolded part of my quote that you left off, and the bolded itallicized part for emphasis.

My question is NOT just about oFollow, but about the NEXT solution that comes along as well.

The fact remains nobody has even made an attempt to see if a generic question about efforts to restore a /follow function would be deemed a violation. Sure any inquiry is likely to get no response, but for the amount of effort put into this thread it would take less effort to make an inquiry - and as I said above there are people on this site with a better reputation/credibility who could make an inquiry with a higher probability of getting a response.

[Owltoid]

So you want someone to ask a general question of if a macro/method can replicate follow if it would be allowed? And you think Blizzard would answer that general of a question, when they rarely opine on specific questions? Otherwise, what specifically would you like to see happen or what specific question would you like asked? I can guarantee you that even if they did answer, a program that reads the binary would still not be legit.

We currently have a follow method that works very well for melee boxers in mountable areas - use IWT with a multi person mount. I doubt Blizzard will come out and say whether they support the method - they will instead issue suspensions/bans for misusing game mechanics, remove/modify the mechanic to make it no longer useable, or just keep quiet while we continue to use it. This open dialog doesn't really exist, even for Lax or Rob or Tim.

ETA: others have asked general questions about simulating follow and others have also asked if multi person mounts with IWT is legit. To my knowledge Blizzard has been silent.

[pinotnoir]

I'm in a glass case of emotion!

[Peri Helion]

From Blizz Chat (I changed the CS Name to Blizz Customer Support since I wasn't sure about this sites rules on posting blizz communications)


Blizz Customer Support
at 17:53:21
Hello there, I'm Blizz Customer Support with Blizzard Customer Support and I'm looking over your request now. How are you doing today?

Peri Helion
at 17:54:14
I am well. I am looking to reactivate my account and begin multiboxing, but want to make sure this is still allowed before spending the money

Blizz Customer Support
at 17:54:43
Multiboxing has never been against the rules.

Peri Helion
at 17:55:45
I know /follow was removed from Battlegrounds, I just wanted to make sure

Blizz Customer Support
at 17:55:56
Yes /follow was removed but multiboxing hasn't been outlawed Peri Helion

Peri Helion
at 17:56:19
Great – if there was an addon that allows the follow function in Battlegrounds, would that be allowed?

Blizz Customer Support
at 17:56:28
That I won't speak to as I am not familar with that addon and I cannot guarantee using it will make you safe.

Blizz Customer Support
at 17:56:43
My guess is the developers will disable that addon though.

Peri Helion
at 17:57:38
ahh - understood - thank! I will not use it then

Blizz Customer Support
at 17:57:18
It was removed for many reasons to ensure that players were all participating in Battlegrounds.

So - less time than it takes to make a post, somewhat of an answer. Is it definitive? Nope. Is it indicative of what the CSRs are being trained to say, and therefore a factual insight into Blizzards potential stance on ANY attempt to bring /follow back into Battlegrounds? Each can read for themselves and decide.

[Owltoid]

If you found value in that interaction with the CSR, then I'm glad for you. I did not.

[Peri Helion]

If you found value in that interaction with the CSR, then I'm glad for you. I did not.
As I said

Each can read for themselves and decide.
So your opinion is your prerogative.

Perhaps you should re-read Mirai's post on what the purpose of this site and thread is, and then determine what you can best do with your next post to better inform the community on this subject.

I must confess given the probity and reasoning demonstrated in your previous posts and threads over the months I have been reading this site your tone and demeanor in this thread are baffling.

We both agree oFollow is most likely something that will result in a ban, I just put forth a little more effort to attempt to get further information rather than just rely on opinions. In deference to your seniority I will not post again on is topic and allow you to have the last word with your inevitable rebuttal (I just hope you don't misquote me for the 4th time today :) )

[Ualaa]

That's not an accurate description. oFollow is not just an addon, but a combination of an external program and an addon. If it was simply an addon that used LUA code, I don't think you'd have anyone opposed.

I agree, if the program is reading information from the game, and then acting upon it... it is something most of us should avoid, assuming we care about retaining our accounts.

But I wanted to point out, just because it is a program + an addon, doesn't make it automatically bad.

IS Boxer is both a program (which you pay for) and it generates wow macros/FTL/etc via its' addon.
Without the program running, your IS Boxer addon won't be much good.

Still, IS Boxer doesn't read anything from the game, and it sounds like oFollow does.
IS Boxer has no way of knowing if a spell fired off or not, if it was resisted or not, if your toons are in follow range when you issue the follow command, etc.

If oFollow reads anything from the game, that's too close to prohibited actions for me.

[Owltoid]

In deference to your seniority I will not post again on is topic and allow you to have the last word with your inevitable rebuttal (I just hope you don't misquote me for the 4th time today :) )

I think that's pretty funny given that you actually misquote me in that post (hint: you said "Each can read for themselves and decide," not me). Don't worry about the seniority, there are a few curmudgeon posters on this site and I am joining their club.


But I wanted to point out, just because it is a program + an addon, doesn't make it automatically bad.

Good point and good example using ISBoxer.

[zenga]

I dont care about ofollow, follow in random bgs or even random bgs. I just quoted this statement because I could not agree with it more.

You guys that like random bgs might want to pay attention to the ptr. Role checks and the end of oqueue in randoms.

Holinka ‏@holinka (https://twitter.com/holinka)30 Mar (https://twitter.com/holinka/status/318222633701363712)
@Wiredmana (https://twitter.com/Wiredmana) Agreed, Premades ruin unrated battlegrounds. Working on making it difficult to do. Sad a cool addon like oQueue does this


Holinka ‏@holinka (https://twitter.com/holinka)30 Mar (https://twitter.com/holinka/status/318231552012218368)
@CuddlyKittyHugs (https://twitter.com/CuddlyKittyHugs) @Wiredmana (https://twitter.com/Wiredmana) I've said a few times, the only part of oQueue I don't like is circumventing premade restrictions


Oqueue doesn't circumvent premade restrictions as far as I know. You can queue up with a group of 5 players for random bg's, and oqueue doesn't circumvent that restriction. All it does is making it easier to find people to queue up together: it saves you from spamming forums, raidfinder, trade etc ... to find a team.

[Fat Tire]

Oqueue doesn't circumvent premade restrictions as far as I know. You can queue up with a group of 5 players for random bg's, and oqueue doesn't circumvent that restriction. All it does is making it easier to find people to queue up together: it saves you from spamming forums, raidfinder, trade etc ... to find a team.

No idea, as I dont use it. Obviously blizzard has more information than I do since they believe its an issue. I was just linking the tweets from the newly acquired senior pvp developer who has been around for roughly 2 months or so and letting people know about the role check for random bgs on the ptr.

[boxblizzardd]

this is bad ethos for dual-boxing.com, this ofollow subject and especially any form of marketing needs to be removed.

lock or remove/edit this thread please.

[EaTCarbS]

this is bad ethos for dual-boxing.com, this ofollow subject and especially any form of marketing needs to be removed.

lock or remove/edit this thread please.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49224-oFollow-Discussion?p=379502&viewfull=1#post379502

Please re-read the thread. The information in this thread is extremely valuable to the multiboxing community - especially those that may be considering using oFollow.