The threw us a bone?

[Janus]

Looks like the luck of the draw buff now also applies when you join as a group in the LFD....
Are they throwing us a bone?

[Multibocks]

Most likely coincidental. Don't think they give a shit about us.

[EaTCarbS]

Most likely coincidental. Don't think they give a shit about us.

>implying they ever did.

[Chivalrous]

I love you guys.

[heyaz]

They did not make this change for us

They did not have battlechest/expansion sales for us

They did not implement follow or IWT for us

They did not add group credit for collection quests for us

They did not add aoe cc to counter us

They did not make a last minute change to get an extra month or two out of us

The did not make CRZ phasing break follow just for us

They did not implement XYZ change to any significant game mechanic that affects the entire player base, because of us

And believe it or not, they did not break /follow in battlegrounds just for us. They broke all of the less sophisticated bots, which are also some of the ones that they can't detect easily since they used a legitimate in-game function. They broke afk /follow leeches in battlegrounds. Hop on over to your favorite premium bot forums and guess what, they broke portions of those too. Jump in an AV and take a look at the 10-15 players stuck in the cave because of follow not working, running all types of bots. They admitted to us as being collateral damage and it was a calculated risk. And honestly given the "I'll do want in BGs because I pay for this" attitude of a lot of boxers, is a reason they were willing to let us get hit too. MiRai touched on this subject in another thread and I agree with him.

and so forth....

Blizzard makes >$140,000,000 per month from subs. We're not an army, or even a large community. The bogus math like "there are 40k forum members on DB if only 1/4 five that's 50000 accounts!" is just ludicrous. A more conservative estimate would be like... about 1000 active boxers with 3-5 accounts each. It's probably more like 500 people boxing 5 or more and actively renewing subs over the years.

We're virtually nothing to their bottom line. They tolerate our playstyle, nothing more. You guys need to stop acting like you're entitled. The nonsense flooded all over the official WoW forums was disgusting, and it's starting to look almost as bad here on our own forums.

[Lyonheart]

I think they guys like Lax..Rob..Tim would have a better idea of how may people are boxing ( with software.. not including those who hardware box ).. not including all the free boxing software downloads.. and its fair to say that WoW has the most ( or had ) But i think 500 is a tad low.

[Santa]

500 or 5000, it doesn't matter compared to whole player pool.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I fully agree with heyaz except for:


Blizzard makes >$140,000,000 per month from subs. We're not an army, or even a large community. The bogus math like "there are 40k forum members on DB if only 1/4 five that's 50000 accounts!" is just ludicrous. A more conservative estimate would be like... about 1000 active boxers with 3-5 accounts each. It's probably more like 500 people boxing 5 or more and actively renewing subs over the years

If if you count dual boxers also the figure will go way up, also because boxers are hard core players each hard core player who leaves a game costs a number of casuals also. All games want hard cores because it is they who post, who make videos, lead guilds, have blogs, have video feeds. etc. For 1000 people we sure are extremely visible. How many people joined wow when reading about prepared boxing 40 accounts or whatever a few years ago? Of course the fact that 10X more people read the bot forum then this forum has got to say something also.

[SoulSeekerUSA]

They did not make this change for us

They did not have battlechest/expansion sales for us

They did not implement follow or IWT for us

They did not add group credit for collection quests for us

They did not add aoe cc to counter us

They did not make a last minute change to get an extra month or two out of us

The did not make CRZ phasing break follow just for us

They did not implement XYZ change to any significant game mechanic that affects the entire player base, because of us

And believe it or not, they did not break /follow in battlegrounds just for us. They broke all of the less sophisticated bots, which are also some of the ones that they can't detect easily since they used a legitimate in-game function. They broke afk /follow leeches in battlegrounds. Hop on over to your favorite premium bot forums and guess what, they broke portions of those too. Jump in an AV and take a look at the 10-15 players stuck in the cave because of follow not working, running all types of bots. They admitted to us as being collateral damage and it was a calculated risk. And honestly given the "I'll do want in BGs because I pay for this" attitude of a lot of boxers, is a reason they were willing to let us get hit too. MiRai touched on this subject in another thread and I agree with him.

and so forth....

Blizzard makes >$140,000,000 per month from subs. We're not an army, or even a large community. The bogus math like "there are 40k forum members on DB if only 1/4 five that's 50000 accounts!" is just ludicrous. A more conservative estimate would be like... about 1000 active boxers with 3-5 accounts each. It's probably more like 500 people boxing 5 or more and actively renewing subs over the years.

We're virtually nothing to their bottom line. They tolerate our playstyle, nothing more. You guys need to stop acting like you're entitled. The nonsense flooded all over the official WoW forums was disgusting, and it's starting to look almost as bad here on our own forums.

Hey, I come here to get away from the fanboys on the wow forums and guess what here we go. I agree with some of what you said but the /follow I do believe was 100% for us. The bot reason was just to cover their asses. I also believe that the reason they kept it a secret was to get as much out of us as they could. I also believe that we are a bigger part of their bottom line then they think.

The reason I am so sure they broke follow to eliminate us is because they could have done that years and years ago and chose not to, so that makes it pretty obvious. All in all I don't even care at this point. I was never much into PVP anyway but I did cancel after the /follow thing happened because I do believe that it is only a matter of time before it spills over into PVE. And to be honest I don't miss it I am kind of relieved, now I can start on the huge backlog of steam games I need to play, thanks Actilizzard!

[TRoN]

I fully agree with heyaz except for:

If if you count dual boxers also the figure will go way up, also because boxers are hard core players each hard core player who leaves a game costs a number of casuals also. All games want hard cores because it is they who post, who make videos, lead guilds, have blogs, have video feeds. etc. For 1000 people we sure are extremely visible. How many people joined wow when reading about prepared boxing 40 accounts or whatever a few years ago? Of course the fact that 10X more people read the bot forum then this forum has got to say something also.

^^this

[Meathead]

Yea, And if they think that removing /follow will stop botting well they are way behind. I find that botting dev are a lot smarter then bliztard's own team. Path navigation was implemented years ago with bot's, the last time I seen a bot use /follow was in TBC. At this moment in time I am thinking should I play or quit for good. Ah well it may be over for the hardcore multiboxers who love doing PVP and PVE not just one thing. Im sure everyone who does PVE has done some PVP fun and like to do it at times. Just PVE would be boring, What are you acheiveing? I get gear from bosses and GOLD but I can not have fun seeing people die ultra fast from my 5x howling blasts or I cant play with my friends with all my 5 accounts while they heal me....I see Tim saying, "its ok its ok" But he loved doing pvp also, For all your PVE MB's you will get bored and want to pvp, but them remember " o yea no /follow" then /logout

Are we dead? Only time will tell. Till then its MR FREEZE!

[MiRai]

Hey, I come here to get away from the fanboys on the wow forums and guess what here we go. I agree with some of what you said but the /follow I do believe was 100% for us. The bot reason was just to cover their asses. I also believe that the reason they kept it a secret was to get as much out of us as they could. I also believe that we are a bigger part of their bottom line then they think.

The reason I am so sure they broke follow to eliminate us is because they could have done that years and years ago and chose not to, so that makes it pretty obvious. All in all I don't even care at this point. I was never much into PVP anyway but I did cancel after the /follow thing happened because I do believe that it is only a matter of time before it spills over into PVE. And to be honest I don't miss it I am kind of relieved, now I can start on the huge backlog of steam games I need to play, thanks Actilizzard!
It sounds like you're turning your opinions into facts.


the last time I seen a bot use /follow was in TBC.
What about the people reporting that there are 10-15 bots stuck in the AV cave after this change? Are they lying?


I can not have fun in a battleground seeing people die ultra fast from my 5x howling blasts or I cant play with my friends in a battleground with all my 5 accounts while they heal me
FTFY

[Meathead]

Bot's are free you can google them. But for the people who pay for there software and get updates for it are ones who arnt stuck and still running around. If you think bots can only do a certain type of thing look again. Ive seen a bot heal everyone in bg's and do a dam good job at it later on finding out it was not a human by it running into a rock then walking backwards then forwards again. Look like it had down syndrome or something. lol But if you googled bots for wow and see if they have things complaining about /follow not working or some crap then show me that bliztard did something right for once.

Coming from a software engineer myself. I have always said no matter what game it is, there will always be a crack or cheat around things. They will never stop and always be 1 step ahead. For instance MegaUpload shutdown. few hours later FBI got hacked..lol..

Just to put blizzard down some more, it took them 1 year to fix a major bug on there website with RAF and Free Game Time.

But if you want to support bliztard by ignoring the fact of removing /follow to "try stop botting" as they say. Then go ahead and farm loot that will make you look cool :) Since you cant pvp with it. Just wait until /follow gets removed totally or the bring it back to bg's its going to be one or the other. They wont just remove it from bgs.

[TRoN]

[...]But if you want to support bliztard by ignoring the fact of removing /follow to "try stop botting" as they say. Then go ahead and farm loot that will make you look cool :) Since you cant pvp with it. Just wait until /follow gets removed totally or the bring it back to bg's its going to be one or the other. They wont just remove it from bgs.

Why they would remove /follow from PVE. That doesn't make any sense!

[MiRai]

Bot's are free you can google them. But for the people who pay for there software and get updates for it are ones who arnt stuck and still running around. If you think bots can only do a certain type of thing look again. Ive seen a bot heal everyone in bg's and do a dam good job at it later on finding out it was not a human by it running into a rock then walking backwards then forwards again. Look like it had down syndrome or something. lol But if you googled bots for wow and see if they have things complaining about /follow not working or some crap then show me that bliztard did something right for once.
I'm well aware of what bots are capable of, but you stated that you hadn't seen a /follow bot since 2007 when apparently they're still being used.


But if you want to support bliztard by ignoring the fact of removing /follow to "try stop botting" as they say.
Just because I'm not actively fighting against it with a pitchfork in one hand and my picket sign in the other doesn't mean that I support the change. However, if the vast majority of multiboxers were actually competent in battlegrounds outside of AV/EotS (and even then competence can be argued), then I could see this as a much harsher change.


Then go ahead and farm loot that will make you look cool :) Since you cant pvp with it.
You're assuming that I multibox so that I can PvP in battlegrounds/arena.

[Toned]

Didn't you run shamans in arena when you used the forum name Fenril? WoW multi-box pvp has been the highlight of my gaming experience since leaving 6-18 boxing Everquest in 2005. Now that it is gone, it's only a matter of time till we all migrate to another game :P Looks like a lot of people are thinking about Rift. If we start migrating there we should definitely all meet up and make a multi-box guild :)

[Pazgaz]

Gave rift a shot. Feels very clunky compared to wow. Might be the difference in HW requirements.

[Andreauk]

That luck of the draw was a bug for me yesterday.. I went into Black Morass at level 90 to farm some leather and still had it!

[MiRai]

Didn't you run shamans in arena when you used the forum name Fenril?
Nope. Although, back in the day I used to run solo with a lot of other multiboxers in PvP while I was still leveling my teams (and put out some videos of it).