Ultimate Tri-Force 7-box Fleet (watcha think?)

[Brax]

Obviously my theorycrafting has left me with high expectations. However, this setup is possible with mostly IV's and some spotty V's. Keep in mind the lower range of the DPS list is with IV majority gunnery skills including only IV Large Energy Turrets (using Imperial faction Tachyon's, heat sinks, crystals, etc). DPS only spikes slightly near 1k per ship with Tech2 guns & higher dmg skills.

Drone DPS is SEPERATE from per-ship DPS. Meaning the DPS listed for drones is "Average" & not max V skilled, and is also bonus DPS should you choose to use your HobGoblin IIs. Once again, HobGoblins are only being used for mass frigate-rape once anything larger than a Cruiser is popped & all that is left are Frigates :).



Short term tests using ISBoxer has shown great promise with only using Destroyers :D~


Enjoy my l33t PowerPoint skills:


852


Watcha fink :3~?


ps: Did I mention this fleet is cap stable around 70-80% on every ship ^_^? Not by choice mind you, and yes they each use AfterBurner II's (Bs go 300km/s, Logis go like 500-600).

[Kaytek]

Hey, I don't post here much but I'm a busy little bee, multiboxing my way through nullsec anoms. Before I provide any commentary, I'd like to ask what you intend to use this setup for? LvL 4 missions? Nullsec anoms? WHs?

[Brax]

Hey, I don't post here much but I'm a busy little bee, multiboxing my way through nullsec anoms. Before I provide any commentary, I'd like to ask what you intend to use this setup for? LvL 4 missions? Nullsec anoms? WHs?

Going to practice with Level 4's, and then after I get comfortable I'll try harder & more dangerous things.

I'm curious if you believe this isn't possible for WHs? I know it is possible for Nullsec Anoms and lvl 4's, and i'm not sure about lvl 5's.

Cheers :)

[moog]

First thought - how well do you handle 1+ ships being jammed and losing all your rep/transfer targets?

I started off 5-boxing Drakes and now 5 Navy Ravens and it's a big enough pain for me when I lose DPS targets on 1 of my ships (and shield rep targets if I have shield bots out) and, since the AI change in December, I've had 2 of my 5 ships jammed on a number of occassions (this is both in L4 missions and null anomolies).

[Brax]

First thought - how well do you handle 1+ ships being jammed and losing all your rep/transfer targets?

I started off 5-boxing Drakes and now 5 Navy Ravens and it's a big enough pain for me when I lose DPS targets on 1 of my ships (and shield rep targets if I have shield bots out) and, since the AI change in December, I've had 2 of my 5 ships jammed on a number of occassions (this is both in L4 missions and null anomolies).

Well, I don't go after Guristas since they're heavy into jamming.


However, my Logis have ECCM to increase their Radar strength. So they're sitting pretty at about 50 radar strength. It won't make them immune, but it'll decrease the likelyhood of jamming. Also, This setup is mainly a lazy-man's lolness at settuping up a fleet that can almost be afk'ed if you're not worried about being jammed.....and if rats lasted more than 20 seconds vs the Abaddon's :p.

I suspect WH's have lots of jamming, so I'd change the fit up for heavy ECCM, and reduce some deeps.

I've also not had TOO much trouble switching targets in EvE with 7 toons. Using ISBoxer is a treat for this kind of stuff :).



[edit]: I believe there are also Fleet Skills to increase ECCM aren't there?

[Kaytek]

Well this is major overkill for LVL 4s and nullsec anoms. That is of course depending on the rats you face. Guristas and jamming can be a real pain, but in general the amount of dps you have is a huge 'tank' in of itself. They jam a ship, you primary the jammer. Sanshas could be a real pain with their insanely powerful tracking disruption. Serpentis, well their damps can be a bit much also. In the end, you're murdering the most annoying rats first and then you're pretty set.

WHs though, that's a whole different ball game. They do omni-damage, neut from long range, web, scram, the works. They love to murder drones if you're using them a lot. They have RR themselves. They are pretty tough. High class wormholes, c4 and up are where multiple ships really come into play. Most people eventually drop carriers and dreads in c5s and c6s. This is done for the tanking and dps, as well as when you drop capitals in c5s and c6s you get extra battleship spawns. That's where the major isk in WHs comes from. But you'll need to loot and salvage it all. Then haul it out and sell to NPCs/market. Generally field trips into WHs aren't that good of an idea without a dedicated cloaky probing ship to get you out if your connection dies. If you really want to learn about WHs, start in c1s or c2s with some battlecruisers like the harbinger or prophecy, maybe even some t1 logi ships and see how you like things. If you really like it, you'll probably end up living in a WH to make it worthwhile. There's another set of headaches with the POS, fuel blocks, defences, constant probing for new WHs opening, getting eyes on any new holes... WHs are definitely team efforts if you haven't gotten the gist of it yet :)

So if you're looking to take your insane 7 man team and farm isk like no tomorrow, I'd recommend nullsec. Renter corps are an option unless you want to play in the big leagues i.e. get into null fleet warfare.

A word of warning though, at some point, which I'm not sure based on your setup, you'll hit a terrible point of returns. You'll be making very good isk, but the isk per account won't be great. I know this as I'm running 5 toons in null at the moment. I crush anoms but there is lost time in flying to the next one, setting up cap/rep chains, wasted dps on overkill for some rats (in my case I assign sentries to a target caller, this could be improved I suppose by having each toon lock targets and engage multiple targets simultaneously). The other issue is the salvage. Guristas salvage sucks, but other rats can yield very nice salvage. At times the salvage can be more than the bounties of the anom you just ran. Trying to multibox my dps team while salvaging for me is a major pain, so that can hurt isk per hour. You could split your rape train team into multiple groups, but then you're really starting to work to keep everything under control and dps constantly applied where it should be. Once the work word comes into it, I just throw up my hands and say piss on it. I'm making good isk to buy shiny things to get blown up. But I'd rather not have to 'work' while playing a game.

Well, take everything I said with a grain of salt. Try things out for yourself and have fun. If all else fails, you can always try and sell your toons on the character bazaar :)

Cheers!

[Brax]

Well this is major overkill for LVL 4s and nullsec anoms. That is of course depending on the rats you face. Guristas and jamming can be a real pain, but in general the amount of dps you have is a huge 'tank' in of itself. They jam a ship, you primary the jammer. Sanshas could be a real pain with their insanely powerful tracking disruption. Serpentis, well their damps can be a bit much also. In the end, you're murdering the most annoying rats first and then you're pretty set.

WHs though, that's a whole different ball game. They do omni-damage, neut from long range, web, scram, the works. They love to murder drones if you're using them a lot. They have RR themselves. They are pretty tough. High class wormholes, c4 and up are where multiple ships really come into play. Most people eventually drop carriers and dreads in c5s and c6s. This is done for the tanking and dps, as well as when you drop capitals in c5s and c6s you get extra battleship spawns. That's where the major isk in WHs comes from. But you'll need to loot and salvage it all. Then haul it out and sell to NPCs/market. Generally field trips into WHs aren't that good of an idea without a dedicated cloaky probing ship to get you out if your connection dies. If you really want to learn about WHs, start in c1s or c2s with some battlecruisers like the harbinger or prophecy, maybe even some t1 logi ships and see how you like things. If you really like it, you'll probably end up living in a WH to make it worthwhile. There's another set of headaches with the POS, fuel blocks, defences, constant probing for new WHs opening, getting eyes on any new holes... WHs are definitely team efforts if you haven't gotten the gist of it yet :)

So if you're looking to take your insane 7 man team and farm isk like no tomorrow, I'd recommend nullsec. Renter corps are an option unless you want to play in the big leagues i.e. get into null fleet warfare.

A word of warning though, at some point, which I'm not sure based on your setup, you'll hit a terrible point of returns. You'll be making very good isk, but the isk per account won't be great. I know this as I'm running 5 toons in null at the moment. I crush anoms but there is lost time in flying to the next one, setting up cap/rep chains, wasted dps on overkill for some rats (in my case I assign sentries to a target caller, this could be improved I suppose by having each toon lock targets and engage multiple targets simultaneously). The other issue is the salvage. Guristas salvage sucks, but other rats can yield very nice salvage. At times the salvage can be more than the bounties of the anom you just ran. Trying to multibox my dps team while salvaging for me is a major pain, so that can hurt isk per hour. You could split your rape train team into multiple groups, but then you're really starting to work to keep everything under control and dps constantly applied where it should be. Once the work word comes into it, I just throw up my hands and say piss on it. I'm making good isk to buy shiny things to get blown up. But I'd rather not have to 'work' while playing a game.

Well, take everything I said with a grain of salt. Try things out for yourself and have fun. If all else fails, you can always try and sell your toons on the character bazaar :)

Cheers!

Really the whole point of this is to see if I can do it effectively enough to be fun for me :).

Also, I have a half-decent job and I won't be converting Plex -> isk for funds like a lot of people do as that'll hopefully come from my boxing. So I'll end up probably paying out of pocket for 3-4 of my accounts and plex the other 3 (maybe). I'm not adverse to paying up to 8 accounts out of pocket if I'm having fun (used to do this with DAOC, had years of hilariousness & godlike power on my server).


As it stands now, Multiboxing is the only challenge I can derive anymore from Modern MMOs as they've taken a steep nose-dive in terms of challenge, difficulty, fun etc. EvE is the only game I haven't multiboxed in, so I figured now is the time to try :)!


If anything, I'll have a 3-boxed Logi team I can do stuff with, or I might try running my team with hi-sec incursions by myself. Dude I just got done talking to said Hi-Sec incursions suck ass unless you're boxing more than 3 toons per incursion. He was making something like 160mill and hour with a 4box in Hi-Sec incursions :).


ps: Do you believe I could do level 5's with this setup?

[Kaytek]

Yes, that setup would crush level 5s. The new NPC AI can be a bit of a pain with the target switching but as long as your logis are orbiting with afterburners and they have appropriate resists, you should be fine. I used to run lvl 5s in hisec before CCP nerfed that. DPS was generally between 2 and 3k. That is of course if you somehow end up in the middle of all the rats. Keeping range and target prioritizing helps reduce that significantly.

I completely understand you with respect to the challenge factor for MMOs. LVL 4s and nullsec anoms really are not a challenge once you bring that kind of DPS into play. Nullsec complexes on the other hand would be a good challenge. One that I haven't tackled yet as I need to get more skills/practice in the area of RR battleships. The worst thing really about using RR setups is the initial entry into a complex where you need to start setting up cap chains, deploy drones, etc. Once you had that down though, you could get into multibox pvp also.

Regarding Incursions, I forgot to mention them because I've never done them myself. In retrospect, I do believe that is where you would get the most bang for your buck. Each pilot gets a set payout as opposed to splitting a set amount between fleet members as in missions or anoms. The bonus with Incursions I think is that they can make for good pvp practice.

Anyway, good luck with your multiboxing. Let us know how things go.

Cheers!

[Digitaltitan]

854

Who needs Logi for LV 5 missions? Its about thinking outside the box.

855

Microjump to range and Turn the guns back. On a related note, I will hunt everyone and everything in my region.

[Brax]

So, all you did was maximized DPS and buffer tanking without Logi?


7 Abaddon would do better :P. However, I like being lazy with 3 logi & 4 abbadons :).

[Digitaltitan]

Each ship has an 500-1000 dps local tank, and for this particular situation 7 abaddons wouldn't be better. It all really depends on what your aiming for, if you wanna do incursions do 7 dps and get other people to logi for you. If you wanna do LV V missions get alot of mission pullers.

And imho 7 is a really strange number of ships to run, if you wanna run incursions you want 10-12 with offgrid boosting

LV V missions dont get easier above 3 and a scout.

Join channel Drexel Lounge Ingame and Look for Zabriske or Digitaltitan

[Brax]

7 is not an odd number, it is actually a really nice number as illustrated by my picture :).

Perfect # of remote reps and remote energy trans.

4 abbadons fitted for pew pew end up with 0-98km weapon range & 972dps per ship, not counting drones.

I imagine Level V's, depending on the type, might be a cake walk if I get used to the setup.

I've yet to try incursions though as my guys are not ready yet :(.

[Digitaltitan]

Level V's neut really hard, And it will be nice, but you have to be really dilligent about the local scanner. If i drop in on you the 3 guardians wont save you.

[Brax]

Level V's neut really hard, And it will be nice, but you have to be really dilligent about the local scanner. If i drop in on you the 3 guardians wont save you.

I'm not concerned about people warping in on me. I always drag a Falcon with me wherever I go in low-sec. I had some dudes warp in on my Abaddon + dual-guardian setup yesturday and I decloaked my Falcon -> Jam -> Warp to safespot on the edges of the system :)~.

[CMKCot]

the thing with boxing a fleet, is that you can downsize the hulls and still get the same result. drakes and canes are the beasts in lvl5s, and pirates die horribly to them. specially 650mm arty canes or HAM drakes. those things are kings now.

for regular lvl4s 5+ drakes are overkill, at 7 you can downsize to Caracals with the same result, if not better.

hell you can chain blitz lvl5s in a small fleet of AFs. not to mention how OP blitzing can get, when chaining 6 or 7 FWlvl4s. that's 200m+ isk/h with a bunch of t1 slashers with near zero chance of dying.

and if you mission against NPCs with no Jams, you can run a RR fleet with ease. just split your fleet into two groups, group A targets ships in group B, and vice versa. so long as the number of ships in each group is less than the max targets on each ship, you are fine. the problem is the "slots" for enemy dps are less. but since BCs like the drake can target 8x it shouldn't be a problem. personally i would never fly battleships in low. the only place battleships are fine is doing anoms in sov null, a swam of AC maelstorms can destroy any anom in record time. unless is one of those crap ones full of frigs... :mad:

keep in mind that having the NPCs swich targets is not a bad thing, its something you need to learn to abuse. dont fit passive tanks, not even in lvl5s. fit buffer tanks. drakes with 110k ehp? yes please. they can survive full room aggro long enough for you to set up RR. by the time the room agro changes 2 or 3 times, the room should be half dead anyway. no need for logis, at all.

the old drakes were insanely OP for lvl5s, all you had to do was fit for max buffer and one small shield booster and one small shield RR, the new ones are much more delicate, sadly.

[Brax]

the thing with boxing a fleet, is that you can downsize the hulls and still get the same result. drakes and canes are the beasts in lvl5s, and pirates die horribly to them. specially 650mm arty canes or HAM drakes. those things are kings now.

for regular lvl4s 5+ drakes are overkill, at 7 you can downsize to Caracals with the same result, if not better.

hell you can chain blitz lvl5s in a small fleet of AFs. not to mention how OP blitzing can get, when chaining 6 or 7 FWlvl4s. that's 200m+ isk/h with a bunch of t1 slashers with near zero chance of dying.

and if you mission against NPCs with no Jams, you can run a RR fleet with ease. just split your fleet into two groups, group A targets ships in group B, and vice versa. so long as the number of ships in each group is less than the max targets on each ship, you are fine. the problem is the "slots" for enemy dps are less. but since BCs like the drake can target 8x it shouldn't be a problem. personally i would never fly battleships in low. the only place battleships are fine is doing anoms in sov null, a swam of AC maelstorms can destroy any anom in record time. unless is one of those crap ones full of frigs... :mad:

keep in mind that having the NPCs swich targets is not a bad thing, its something you need to learn to abuse. dont fit passive tanks, not even in lvl5s. fit buffer tanks. drakes with 110k ehp? yes please. they can survive full room aggro long enough for you to set up RR. by the time the room agro changes 2 or 3 times, the room should be half dead anyway. no need for logis, at all.

the old drakes were insanely OP for lvl5s, all you had to do was fit for max buffer and one small shield booster and one small shield RR, the new ones are much more delicate, sadly.

I see what you're saying, however I'd like to point out Drakes & Canes got nerfed heavily as they were being abused for both PVE & PVP turning EvE into CaneDrake Online.

Right now, my guys went back to training all their sub-skills so I've not 100% decided on a ship path yet. However, lasers was the ultimate choice since you don't have to worry about ammo too much. However, I'm avoiding missiles since their dps is absolutely attrocious compared to any other race to fly. Hybrid weapons are just pathetic, and Autos/Artillery on anything smaller than Large weaponry don't have the range missiles or Lasers do.

I was told to do Tengus as they're decent around 70km range, agile, and can be tanked fairly well.

I'm not a fan of the Tengu, like a lot of people, I believe they're overrated by the minority out there who think they the best thing since sliced bread. I'm also not looking for the easiest setup ever as I want something that can be used for quite a few different situations without worrying about engagement duration. Logic / BS fleeting doesn't worry about engagement duration as the difficulty part is the initial warp-in aggro survival before logi-chain is setup.

I'm also not interested in blitzing as I can do that already with a 3box of HACs. Blitzing also doesn't earn as much money as harder PVE income that turns into billions per week.

Right now, i'm still in research phase (still) while I train subskills to IV & V. :)

However, all of these replies continue to narrow down my path, and I'm sure they've helped others who aren't even registered here.

Thanks,
-Brax :cool:

[Meeo]

I've been using 3xTengu for the last 3 years, even post HM-nerf they are highly reliable ships, speed tanking is a good way to mitigate damage. The only downside that i see with using them, is not really a DPS issue as they still volley enough to kill anything smaller then a BS with no transversal in 1 hit, but its more about the Time-to-Damage, since missile have a flight time.

Since the Time-to-Damage has been bothering more and more, i actually switched over to Laser boats. As with other turret boats, there is no delay. I'm currently using 2 Nightmares and 1 Tengu for my PvE Missions, doing both level 4s and 5 in Caldari space, for 5s sometimes i bring a friend with me for extra eyes on local. I do not use all 12 of my accounts to pve. I may eventually get there, but i find 3 to 4 is a good number for grinding out missions when i'm bored of doing trading or mining. I tried to use Torp golems buti didnt like the fact that i couldnt get 1 cap stable enough, even with most of the needed skills at level 5. I could tri-force style of energy transfers between them, but to me that is to much work for something i could simple doing with another ship with less attention.

At one point in time, i used 4-5 AFK Sentry-Domis which was fun until they change the aggro to be more like the sleeper AI.

I would love to use blaster boats, because they are really fun to fly, ie: Brutix or Proteus, especially with the changes over the last year to armor and hybrids. However they take a lot of attention because of the very bad optimals on hybrids.

I myself am torn between what setup to use to get the best benefit of all my accounts, besides mining. For PvE i've always been a missile boater, i like my Tengus, i never really did like drakes but i have used their OPness back in the day.

[Eekeker]

Hey guys,

I am working with a raven shield tank, 3 Dominix drone boats and a noctis. I find it easiest to set the drones on guard on the shield tank as it only requires 1 lock.


any suggestions?

[Brax]

Hey guys,

I am working with a raven shield tank, 3 Dominix drone boats and a noctis. I find it easiest to set the drones on guard on the shield tank as it only requires 1 lock.


any suggestions?

Well, if you're running missions fast enough there's no point in using a noctis unless you're doing wormhole stuff. If i were 5boxing which wouldn't give me the ship count needed to tri-force, I'd totally do 5 passive tanks + as much dps as possible. So probably passive tanked x 5 Ravens and DPS-ho my enemies until they went splodey-boom. Not sure how viable it'd be, but it'd be funny as hell :).

Drones are a bit of an icky topic now that there is an AI change to make drones more of a target than you even after the initial warp-in aggro. Otherwise i'd say 5box Dominix's with sentries and pew-pew everything to doom & gloom.


ps: I like that friends of mine are now using "Tri-Force" to describe a box design with the concept of 3 logis at the center of it :D. ^-^