Tried to quest in Hyjal tonight

[pinotnoir]

Well I turned in one quest then a 90 hunter decided to kill me every time I rezed. I am about give up trying because I have better things to do than run back to my corpse only to get ganked by 90's. In all my years of playing this game I still don't understand the mind of the person who camps lowbies all night long. They must have been bullied as kids or something and want payback through the internets.

[Multibocks]

Whisper me if you need any backup. I hate CRZ so much, it encourages level 90s ganking

[heyaz]

you've never been camped before? people have been camping and ganking relentlessly since the game came out...

doesn't have anything to do with CRZ. sounds like a wow general forums post

[zenga]

Well that's the risk of both playing on a pvp server and multiboxing .... if you don't want to deal with it roll on a pve realm where you can quest in peace. I personally like the danger when I (solo) quest that I can be ganked at any point. I tend to log a high geared toon and it often results in some good world pvp.

[MiRai]

you've never been camped before? people have been camping and ganking relentlessly since the game came out...

doesn't have anything to do with CRZ. sounds like a wow general forums post
I find that to be a pretty weak argument because there are only so many people on a single server that would be willing to camp you for hours on end, and you can return that favor to those same people on your server when you get to the top level. With CRZ, there are endless 90's from the entire datacenter that will camp you for hours, and when they get bored, another batch rolls in. These are people that aren't from your server, so even if you brought in your level 90 and tried to fight back, you can't; they just fly off into another zone and disappear forever, never to be seen again. You cannot hunt them down to get your revenge... ever.

Consistent and cowardice ganking, with zero consequence, is what CRZ encourages. I've been playing on a PvP server since the day this game went live, and no one can tell me, "This is how it's always been."

[luxlunae]

I find that to be a pretty weak argument because there are only so many people on a single server that would be willing to camp you for hours on end, and you can return that favor to those same people on your server when you get to the top level. With CRZ, there are endless 90's from the entire datacenter that will camp you for hours, and when they get bored, another batch rolls in. These are people that aren't from your server, so even if you brought in your level 90 and tried to fight back, you can't; they just fly off into another zone and disappear forever, never to be seen again. You cannot hunt them down to get your revenge... ever.

Consistent and cowardice ganking, with zero consequence, is what CRZ encourages. I've been playing on a PvP server since the day this game went live, and no one can tell me, "This is how it's always been."

Beautifully stated. In the past you could usually just switch to a less popular leveling zone and be fine, when I leveled my monk in November I actually had to switch to instance only leveling in the 50s because I spent considerable time moving from zone to zone just to encounter more gankers. I really fail to see how this adds to the game experience at all.

[Multibocks]

Mirai hit the nail on the head. I hate CRZ with every fiber of my being and I will help anyone getting ganked. I love the virtual expression on their face when 20 characters drop from the sky and blast them. Assholes.

[heyaz]

I think CRZ is amazing once you hit max level. 24/7 PVP anywhere, anytime. A dream for any PVPer and especially for a multiboxer. Arenas are dead, BGs get tired after awhile, and given the server imbalances and populations it was not possible before CRZ for me to log on any time of the day and find constant action. It's all over the world... and I'm talking 90s ready to fight, group up, even form raids. If I see a couple 90's bothering the lowbies, I clear 'em out.l If it's quiet, I kill a couple lowbies and wait for the 90s to show up. All of this while being able to play on a High/Full pop horde dominated server with all the resources I need, without the drawback of the entire world being empty and feeling like a single player game.

[Blubber]

The only thing CRZ does is make absolutely sure that every zone now has at least one ganker of the opposing faction around. And the worst thing is that you can't really call for backup, because you never know for certain that the other person is going to end up in the same instance of that zone.

They should disable CRZ in low-level zones, which might hamper questing a bit, but nobody is standing around waiting for a group these days anyway.

The idea about CRZ is great, but as usual, Blizzard failed with the implementation :].

[Multibocks]

Easy fix, no 90s CRZ in any zone below 84 (or whatever cutoff). That means I will see 89s trying to kill me, but at least I have a fighting chance since they aren't geared to the teeth. Blizzard feels like they have re-invigorated leveling, but for me the last thing I want to do is level my last two teams to 90. CRZ would have been fine with me if I could get revenge, but a lot of the time I fly my 90s there and I can't even see the gankers. Such bullshit.

[Ellay]

CRZ was definitely implemented to use less resources on their server farms and make the old world zones look more populated. If it was just your server alone it would probably look pretty dead at this point. This is the overall negative that comes from CRZ and it does truly suck. Leveling up one of my teams through Hyjal the experience was awful. I think Hyjal itself is the worst spot this happens in for ganking. You do have the option of going to the water zone but I hated the water zone. The only positive I took out of this is I truly despise the Horde now being on Alliance. Whenever I see someone from the opposing faction I feel no remorse for taking them out. I used to be a softie outside of arena's/pvp :)

[Lyonheart]

I have always enjoyed PvP, but only when I want to PvP. I miss DAoCs separate zones.. each faction had its own leveling zone.. you could go there to PvP..but it was not easy.. took a lot of time to get there. Most the PvP happened in the BGs, and The Frontier ( RvR Zone ) IF you enter that zone.. you are PvP flagged, the quest rewards were better.. the loot was better.. but the risk was high. But your PvE zones were different areas of the map for each realm.

CRZ could implement some kind of restriction on PvP servers so that CRZ had level limits. Other than that, you just have to find a work around. Like transferring one toon, that you don't use much, to a PvE realm on that cluster ( can you do that ? ) And inviting your other toons to that zone?

[heyaz]

Easy fix, no 90s CRZ in any zone below 84 (or whatever cutoff).

It's already implemented like that for the most part. CRZ doesn't include Pandaria zones unless you invite someone to your realm. EDIT: I got that backwards

Again, people asked for that since vanilla... no level 60s in low level zones. It's just not how WoW PVP is set up.

I don't think this is changing and honestly if you can't handle it you need to level on PVE realms or stick to dungeons. Blue post on this recently, I don't think it's going anywhere:



Cross-Realm Zones and PvP
Players have always been able to kill low level characters, this isn't something new with CRZ.

PvP realms were designed right from the get-go to be a place where random acts of PvP could take place (outside of a handful of safe zones), and we have no plans to change this.

Ganking is always a threat on these realms, there have always been players who enjoy it and who go out of their way to do so. It just comes with the PvP realm unfortunately.


I think a huge part of the game would die for me and other max level players that enjoy world PVP if they removed CRZ. I can gank other 90 gankers anywhere, and I kill lowbies along the way to stir up trouble. Camping lowbies isn't that satisfying to me at max level and especially not with 5-10x 90s, the goal is to get the 90s to come out, and on certain CRZ's you can get start a war in minutes. It's the most fun I've had in awhile, my only complaint is flying mounts, they fly away to reset the fights just like people wait for PVP flags to go down on PVE realms.

[heyaz]

transferring one toon, that you don't use much, to a PvE realm on that cluster ( can you do that ? ) And inviting your other toons to that zone?

Bigger group will take precendence. If you have one lowbie on a PVE realm invite 2 or more players in a PVP CRZ, your lowbie will coalesce into the PVP realm.

When I leveled my last team in Deepholm, which is a big ganking spot, my lowbies were killed dozens of times by air ganking spriests/mages/engineers. I just went about my business and didn't fuss about it. My 90 booster got the crap kicked out of him by multiple 90s as well. Obviously they didn't stop me from hitting 85, but they delayed me a bit. I didn't go crying to the forums about it - I rolled a PVP server knowing the potential danger.

[daviddoran]

CRZ just exacerbates an existing problem: The game isn't fun when you get ganked by someone with such an extreme level advantage, such that you have no hope (even 10 vs 1 in some cases) of coming close to damaging the ganker. I believe the sensible solution, is to not allow opposing factions to see anyone more than 20 levels below their own level. Or maybe 10 levels below. Obviously this won't help an 80 getting ganked by a 90, but it certainly can't hurt.

[pinotnoir]

I would hardly say my post is crying on the forums. I have played this game since release on pvp servers. I quit before panda express came out. Upon my return it's not the same. You may have fun with world pvp in every zone, but I would bet people who enjoy it like you are a small percentage. If I wanted world pvp before I went to world pvp zones or opposite faction cities. I sure as hell didn't camp lowbies. If you cannot call for backup from guild or bring your own to get revenge what the hell good is it? MiRai explained the problem perfectly. My options are log in another team only to face the same problem or instance grind. If Blizzard wants people to give them money every month this new system is a great way to prevent that. I have leveled many toons on pvp servers and never had a problem this bad. If I can't level any of my teams without idiots camping them non stop I say fuck this game. Before you say go to a pve server you need to understand this game is no longer the same. This new system they have is retarded. I hated the thought of playing with pandas before now this is really reinforcing my hatred of pandas.

[Multibocks]

Bigger group will take precendence. If you have one lowbie on a PVE realm invite 2 or more players in a PVP CRZ, your lowbie will coalesce into the PVP realm.

When I leveled my last team in Deepholm, which is a big ganking spot, my lowbies were killed dozens of times by air ganking spriests/mages/engineers. I just went about my business and didn't fuss about it. My 90 booster got the crap kicked out of him by multiple 90s as well. Obviously they didn't stop me from hitting 85, but they delayed me a bit. I didn't go crying to the forums about it - I rolled a PVP server knowing the potential danger.

you are going to turn a respectful conversation south quick. I joined a PvP server knowing I was going to get ganked 1-5 times an hour while low level. What I didn't expect was Blizzard to put ALL the people interested in killing me in the same zone in Cata. Now as I said before, if I can gank them back - fine. But what really happens is the kill me until I'm sick of it and then my 90s show up to even the score and they are in a different phase. That leaves me no recourse but to log off.

Guess what happens to your game when a few bad apples force you to log off? Subscription numbers go down. I can't play? I ain't paying. The person who came up with CRZ is not my favorite person and has taken some of the enjoyment out of this game for me.

[Fat Tire]

I am with Heyaz. The people who whine and bitch about being ganked are the ones I love to annoy. I must have died 100 times just to gankers going from 1-90 on horde tich when mop came out. Suck it up and once your 90 create some havoc yourself.



Posted 3 days ago in response to CRZ ganking....
Players have always been able to kill low level characters, this isn't something new with CRZ.

PvP realms were designed right from the get-go to be a place where random acts of PvP could take place (outside of a handful of safe zones), and we have no plans to change this.

Ganking is always a threat on these realms, there have always been players who enjoy it and who go out of their way to do so.

[pinotnoir]

Fat Tire I am not into sadomasochism. Furthermore, I am not going to pay someone $75 a month to be miserable. I have better things to do in real life. There are many problems with CRZ in addition to an unending group of random gankers to make your life hell. If Blizzard does not make modifications to it they will see their subs go down. I for one will not endure hell just so I can go and gank lowbies when I am 90. I would say very few people play the game for that purpose. If you enjoy this pain more power to ya. Soon you will find your server has no community. It will be nothing but a bunch of random people you don't know and will never see again. It's pretty much the end of the wow community in my eyes.

[heyaz]

CRZ just exacerbates an existing problem: The game isn't fun when you get ganked by someone with such an extreme level advantage, such that you have no hope (even 10 vs 1 in some cases) of coming close to damaging the ganker. I believe the sensible solution, is to not allow opposing factions to see anyone more than 20 levels below their own level. Or maybe 10 levels below. Obviously this won't help an 80 getting ganked by a 90, but it certainly can't hurt.

Except ganking is not a "problem", it's a risk inherent to PVP realms. The same level of rampant ganking and camping existed long ago on high pop PVP servers, and the extreme level advantage was still there - 60s vs whatever. CRZ just put it back to that level everywhere. You think you had some hope of damaging that level 60 ganker in the 20s in Hillsbrad? Same deal there. Nothing new.

Your suggestion has already been implemented on several other MMO's and you could always try those. I'm not a fan of it, considering how much it would cut down on high levels around the world, who are the people I actually want to fight. And in a genre of game where the entire purpose is to improve your character's power through level and gear - to be downgraded when I enter a lower zone is not desirable.

[heyaz]

Fat Tire I am not into sadomasochism. Furthermore, I am not going to pay someone $75 a month to be miserable. I have better things to do in real life. There are many problems with CRZ in addition to an unending group of random gankers to make your life hell. If Blizzard does not make modifications to it they will see their subs go down. I for one will not endure hell just so I can go and gank lowbies when I am 90. I would say very few people play the game for that purpose. If you enjoy this pain more power to ya. Soon you will find your server has no community. It will be nothing but a bunch of random people you don't know and will never see again. It's pretty much the end of the wow community in my eyes.

I get the sense you really aren't enjoying WoW anymore and in that case there's really no reason for you to pay for it and put up with it if it's not fun. There's no sense in debating or trying to convince you of this or that, if you aren't enjoying it, really, don't play!

Be that as it may, to extrapolate your experience to the entire WoW community is ridiculous; a lot of people are still enjoying the game and I've found things to be as lively as ever. I thought our community was better than this, but this is turning out just like a WoW general forums post about how I and a few people I know hate this feature and now WoW is dead for everyone.

Multiboxing is a big investment and if the current state of the game is not to your liking, multiplying it by X number of characters probably won't help, in fact it may just multiply the problems. There's tons of other games out there, and your real life interests; do what is fun to you.

[heyaz]

Leveling up one of my teams through Hyjal the experience was awful. I think Hyjal itself is the worst spot this happens in for ganking.

Ah, there's a spot I haven't hit with my DK's yet. I've been clearing gankers out of STV, Blasted Lands, and Hellfire recently. I think it's time to unleash hell in Hyjal. I'm on a particularly malicious CRZ group and there will definitely be some people who need punishment :)

[pinotnoir]

I am going to try and level again tomorrow. I have played on high pop pvp servers since this game came out. It's not the same. PVP was always limited to your servers population. Right now there is a never ending stream of random people in zones they would never be in even on the highest pop PVP server. I have endured ganking for years. I could either bring my max level toons to pay them back, call in guild reinforcements, or log in other toons and go somewhere else. Right now I have no option but to be slaughtered no matter where I go by random people not even on my server. You cannot log in your toons for pay back because they will be gone or not in the same zone. If you are in The Zerg come with me and see if you can keep my team from getting one shot. I have been in this community since 2008 and have made plenty of contributions. Don't act all high and mighty and say this legitimate concern is below you just because you enjoy it. There are many of us boxing for many different reasons. You know what they say about opinions. They are like assholes. We all have one and we all think everyone else's stinks.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I think one point that might be getting glossed over is that if you call in guild reinforcements, in the olden days you'd see a ton of your people swoop in and lay waste to the opposition. In the CRZ world, there's no guarantee (and in fact a pretty good chance) they won't be in the same phase with you and, thus, won't be able to help you out. So, that old saw about "PVP happens, get some backup" doesn't apply anymore. It's like saying "crime has always been around; just call the cops" but nowadays when you call the cops, they may not be able to get to your location at all.

[JohnGabriel]

The PTR is down so in a bit you can all go check and see if they did anything with world PvP.

Seems most of the changes in the works right now are for arena/bg/etc but nothing for world PvP.

[heyaz]

The PTR is down so in a bit you can all go check and see if they did anything with world PvP.

Seems most of the changes in the works right now are for arena/bg/etc but nothing for world PvP.

What would they change? No ganking low levels? Blue posts already stated that's part of PVP realms and they have no plans to change it. World PVP in and of itself is part of a PVP server including unfair advantages.

The system has its drawbacks, I agree. Zones getting overcrowded and players coalescing into a completely different phase despite being in the same CRZ group and zone, making getting back at gankers sometimes impossible. Dismounting and losing follow between zones. Spawn rates not favorable. I'm sure it will be improved over time. All I know is that despite its drawbacks, it has created a vibrant world full of PVP 24 hours a day. And I'm not out looking for lowbies to gank, I'm engaging 90s and there are, as you know, no shortage of them running around.

You may get ganked and camped more as a multiboxer. I feel like I was, when I leveled non-CRZ back in wrath and in CRZ 80-85. Questing sucks and there are ways to avoid it 1-85 including LFD, boosting, and grinding spots. Once you hit Pandaria, there is no CRZ by default. And if you still don't want any PVP encounters before 90, there are ways to skip questing there as well.

[valkry]

Well I turned in one quest then a 90 hunter decided to kill me every time I rezed. I am about give up trying because I have better things to do than run back to my corpse only to get ganked by 90's. In all my years of playing this game I still don't understand the mind of the person who camps lowbies all night long. They must have been bullied as kids or something and want payback through the internets.
You answered your own pondering, that's the reason right there... that, and rage responses.

[Ualaa]

Once you're dying, and not therefore not getting experience anyway...

Could you not convert to raid, and then invite members of your guild or friends (those who were willing to come to your assistance)?
I'd assume, being in the same raid would have everyone in the same phase.

There is no guarantee the other guys are still going to be there.
But you should at least ensure your reinforcements are able to drive away the camper.



I look at it as this...

I can be killed, it is a pvp server after all; I expect to die regularly.

But if someone wants to camp me for hours and hours, and with the CRZ system you basically get numerous people doing just that...
Then (prior to maximum level) questing (or outside play in general) is not an option once you reach the point where you enter a contested zone.

So the best option is going to be, hanging out in friendly territory (where you're not involuntarily flagged) or a sanctuary like Shattrath.
And leveling exclusively in 'Fair Content', which would be battlegrounds (because the relative level limits are enforced) and/or instances (because there aren't enemy players there).

Basically CRZ is great on paper.
And if you're into world pvp, at maximum level, it is also great in practice.
But rather than populate the lower zones with level appropriate characters, it will drive those away.

As a boxer, leveling...
It might be an idea to temporarily re-arrange teams in a manner such that you have at least one Tank and one Healer in each group of five characters.
Dungeon Finder removes the cap on instances per hour, and removes the need to even move through the cross-hairs of the level 90s sniper rifles...

[MadMilitia]

If you are finding it difficult to deal with unwanted PvP, multiboxing is not going to make that more tolerable! In fact it will just encourage PvP.


Your only option is to Xfer off of the PvP realm.