I may have gotten the WoW itch, tell me what's happened in the past 2 years.

[Ellay]

What's fun these days in WoW? Are you having a good time?
Can I get by with 2 hours of playtime a day?

[Lyonheart]

Depends on your personality. If your the type who feels compelled to get "everything" done each day.. then don't resub! There is a TON to do.. more dailies then you can get done in a few hours. New BGs, boxable dungeons .easy mode raiding ( LFR ) New farming ( tillers rep ), pokemon..err pet battles! LOTS. But i think your a big PvP guys. If you like a challenge, I'm sure you would find it fun..but its not easy mode as it used to be ( read all the sky is falling PvP threads here ).

Ahh something you might like if you ever loved to duel >>> http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004406077?page=7#126

[Ellay]

It would probably be a lot of PvP. Sky is falling sounds great. I love to figure things out. There is always a solution :)

[zenga]

A few quick facts with regards to pvp that might help out if you've been away so long:

- everyone has 40% base resilience nowadays w/o gear
- there is crafted pvp gear that is a bit lower than honor points gear
- honor points is the currency to buy the first tier of pvp gear from the vendor, acquired by doing random bg's
- if you run instances you acquire justice points, which can be converted into honor points (350 jp nets 250 hp)
- conquest points is the currency to buy the arena pvp gear, you acquire them by winning arenas, win random bgs or by rated bgs
- valor points is the pve equivalent of conquest points, acquired by doing dailies, random heroics or raids, and can be converted into conquest points
- pvp gear now has besides resilience pvp power, it's a stat which allows you to do more damage vs player targets, so pvp gear is always better than pve gear for pvp

[Lyonheart]

It would probably be a lot of PvP. Sky is falling sounds great. I love to figure things out. There is always a solution :)

I can't wait for the next Ellay rules arena videos! Can i invest in DB.COM stock? last time you made( WoW )videos, this site blew up!!!

[Shodokan]

If you are coming back for PVP Ellay i suggest staying away if you want to multi-box it.

Unless you plan on running triple DPS + double healer or quad dps (non class stacking) and actually figuring out an effective means to CC (3 toons is easier imo with a naga and shift + ctrl + alt controling who is CCing and #1-5 controling who is getting CC'd)

To me it seems that Feral/Warrior/Enhance might be effective.

I've sorta given up on multi-boxing and gone back to pushing 3's and only using my other toons for professions :(

[Fat Tire]

The game is now all about cooldowns - defensive,offensive and crowd control. With that said I like mop way more than cata pvp wise.

[Ellay]

Thanks for the feedback so far! I do want to publicize it more as well. I plan to do a livestream when I am on and plug d-b as much as possible :)

I've been watching quite a few streams and it does seem like a very intensive offensive/defensive cooldown system. The system has changed a lot itself and I want to look over all the classes and hopefully get a better idea.

Any flavors of the month right now with the new xpac?

[roddo]

For pvp war's, hunters and mages. Mages same old same old, cc and burst, hunters have insane burst, warriors can cc and burst.

[Fat Tire]

Thanks for the feedback so far! I do want to publicize it more as well. I plan to do a livestream when I am on and plug d-b as much as possible :)



Better to follow the model of Bajheera.

While Reckful made about 10k last month from streaming and donations he will burn out.

[Ellay]

What is Bajheera's model? I have seen Reckful streaming, he is on quite a bit.

[Lyonheart]

Any flavors of the month right now with the new xpac?

Should get a better feel after the patch.. lots of burst getting nerfed. You should do RaF and level 5 of everything ( or 4 if thats what you do still )

[Ellay]

that seems good, but I'd rather keep my characters and their names. Planning on 5, but not sure if Shaman is the key :) This new talent layout is quite different!

[Fat Tire]

What is Bajheera's model? I have seen Reckful streaming, he is on quite a bit.

Bajheera has been streaming for a couple of years now and Reckful has been streaming for a month and a half, not to mention he streams for 15+ hours at a time. Very unhealthy and is just begging for burnout in the near future.

Bajheera makes videos from his streams and edits them together for youtube vids, think he has 80k subs on youtube. He is not even close to the best player unlike reckful who is probably the most well known wow player and the thing is Bajheera doesnt have to be a top arena player, he understands that the entertainment factor is most important. Its the interaction with the viewers that plays and pays biggest part. Bajheera also has a secondary topic in which he interacts and that is bodybuilding, while not a huge guy there are alot of fat whimpy teenagers/people out there that play wow and they ask him training questions.

Here is the thing about streaming nowadays, if you are just going to stream your wow without constant viewer interaction dont expect alot of viewers. You have to webcam and interact with them and not all people can do that.

[Ellay]

That's awesome, great insight. Time to do some more research!

Is druid still the best class for throwing out heals with no cast times for a group or is it someone else?

[heyaz]

Ele shaman are about the worst pvp spec in the game at the moment. Stacking them doesn't seem to overcome their limitations. All their spells hit like wet noodles, assuming you actually get a chance to cast, but with all the aoc CC and no way to be immune to it on shaman, you usually don't get to cast at all.

Lot of people still doing melee comps, 4x DK 1 holy paladin is pretty popular. Although given the way arenas are going at the moment, lots of warriors and hunters dominating 5s I don't know of anyone doing serious arena while multiboxing.

Kruschpak called it pretty early on elemental shaman and just geared out enhancement and continued to do 5s but with limited success it seems:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackrock/Kruschpak/simple

--

IF you can forget about competitive arena at least for this season, there is a lot WoW has to offer that it didn't in the past.

- World PVP is constant, 1-85 due to cross realm zones, and at 90 due to dallies being both lucrative for gold/gear and necessary for the hardcore types. There are always people to fight. The next patch is supposed to add even more with the new faction. Certain lower level zones are full of 90s and are cross realm, so that's 24/7 action.
- Regular BG PVP is about the same as it was before, boxers can still mow through everything although you do have to deal with some annoying CC and broken classes like warriors 2 shotting things.
- LFR gives you the option to see all the raid content and queue your multiboxing team. It's not the top gear but it's still fun to do.
- The PVP stats (pvp resil and pvp power) do not carry weight on the item and are free; so you not only get the same stats for that ilvl as pve gear but bonus pvp stats.

[Kromtor]

As far as 4 and 5 boxed PvP goes, I've found everything Shodokan has said to be unfortunately true. 5's arenas are definitely not gladiator viable for 5 boxed melee and I'd have to guess the same will be true for ranged. Mass CC and peeling is far too effective that any smart team will devastate you. One of the biggest new issues that Shodokan brought up was the fact that in arenas the opposing team can see your team make-up from the very beginning and they have plenty of time to change talents to maximize their classes AoE capabilities. 5's in general just suck, they are so underpopulated they are ripe for off-hours win-trading. The logistics and politics out of the arena perhaps play a bigger portion than inside the arena. If you want to get to the top that way you might be able to but that's lame. Maybe play 3 and get two friends but that doesn't interest me at all.

The PvE is fun, but it's essentially the same old stuff. The heroics are just very easy compared to other expansions. I thought the timed instances might be fun (they at least are quite hard - far harder than heroics) to try to get some competition going, but I'm afraid that's mostly going to be a kiting competition.

[Ellay]

Loving everyone chiming in, really do appreciate it. Even in the prime pre Season 5, 5v5's were still tough to find competition if it wasn't in prime time hours. With further pvp options I can only imagine it's less played since it's easier to make a group for 2 or 3's and Rated bg's.

What are you guys having fun with? I have read BM hunters are decent on the dps (will those pets eventually scale down as time goes on?). As well as DK's. It looks like Ret Paladins lost their awesome storm aoe heal/damage move.

I guess what it boils down to for me really is for some reason I watched my own video that I haven't seen in almost 3 years, and it inspired me. How does that even work? But it made me want to play again and do more. Technology for gaming has advanced so well. It is totally feasible to live stream everything I do in a much more balanced state. 4 years ago I sacrificed a lot of frames just to even record or stream barely and the quality was terrible.
Multiboxing is the meta game of the meta game. It's reverse inception, and after multiboxing Diablo 3 for about 5 months I've capped out. (it's definitely not the easiest game to multibox) but love that challenge.
I made a deal with the wife and even with a hectic schedule I think I can give this mmo another go and enjoy it.
That's just my rant, hope I'm not coming across as an old timer - you guys are way more advanced than me in the Wow - boxing - fu.

Also Heyaz and Kromtor what are you guys playing. I see your sig shows 1 DK and 4 Ret paladins, is that still a doable build?

[Fat Tire]

I guess it just boils down to what your goals are and what you want to accomplish with your time.

As others have said if you are looking to become glad lvl in 5s, I think that ship has sailed for everyone. Kromtor mentioned the politics outside of arena and he is spot on. Kids these days dont mess around, if you even got anywhere even close they would wintrade,snipe and ddos you. Not to mention these days only top 2 or 3 in 5s get glad.

[heyaz]

So I hadn't boxed since wrath. I had the 4x ret + dk team at the end of wrath as well, and my four shaman. Shaman looked so good on paper (especially with ascendance) in MoP I went with them.

I leveled 4x 90 shaman and a druid (pve tank) right when the expansion came out. It became clear very quickly that elemental was weak in pvp, in fact the weakest I've ever seen it (worse than beginning of wrath). I tested enhance on one shaman and decided not to box it. Anyway I continued to gear them thinking they'd hit critical mass as some pvp power percentage but they didn't get much better. At the moment I mostly play them as 4x resto, just healing - that spec is actually quite strong and stacking them has significant advantages: huge passive healing, no issue with fears (4x tremor totems a minute or 8x with the talent), raid-wide freedom-like totem (windwalk), 4x spirit link and ascendance resto duplicates all healing across the team. it's fun but, it's healing... not blowing stuff up.

I'm leveling 5x DKs (almost 89 now). They're fairly strong in PVP, have their share of aoe-cc (check the 90 talents), can death grip twice in a row, and have several other benefits. With tech being so cheap I'll be building out a new machine and add in my other guys for a 5x DPS 3-5x healer comp I'll use in world PVP and battlegrounds.

Arenas - I'm not planning anything serious this season. If DK's stay strong I'll probably go with 4x DK + dedicated healer or try the method of leading with the healer; if neither my resto shaman nor resto druid are viable I'll bring up a paladin.

I'm also considering swapping in a warrior for one of the DKs to add in shockwave, AOE fear, skull banner, etc. as it would probably add more to the comp than a 5th DK.


tl;dr
-I have 4x shaman + 1 druid at 90, and the shaman suck
-leveling 5x DKs to add to them
-adding in a warrior later

[Kromtor]

I've really only been playing about 10 days. The first group I've messed around with is my tried and true 4 ret 1 blood dk. They are very strong. The rets heal like crazy and it's easier than ever to multibox it since you slap on the glyph of battle healing and let your seal of insight heal efficiently just as a percentage of your damage. In the past I sacrificed a lot of DPS for the healing when playing rets but now it's actually a bit less. You lose a good chunk from having to use seal of insight (especially hurts your single target DPS), but it's not as much as I lost before when I rarely could use a templar's verdict since HP was always was used for word of glory.

The blood DK is a great tank that self heals/shields like a beast, and his DPS is incredible. He will often out DPS your rets even on single targets simply because he gets so much extra atk power from taking damage.

The fact that they're not really viable for top tier PvP is simply due to lack of magic removal from cleanse (but that nerf happened a long time ago) and the plethora of AoE CC and damage that's now available to every class.

I'm probably going to test 4 DK 1 ret/prot, simply because DKs have a bit more in the way of getting out of CC without sacrificing DPS and have some interesting delayed burst stuff. I still don't think it'll work out in arenas and it'll a bit harder in PvE since DKs can't really heal each other like they used to, but I'm sure it'll be fun and easily heroic viable.

[Kruschpakx4]

I do suggest you to play quad enhance, sustain damage and healing is really good, the oneshot macro is like those from elemental shamans back in bc, no travel time, no gcd between and a guaranteed kill, I'm currently always lurking around between 1,6 1,7k , for sure I need either a good resto shaman or druid (currently have neither), some major problems are getting fixed with 5.1, maxing out gear will ofc also have a big impact on the comps performance, once I'm not getting oneshoted within the first 2 seconds of the fight by bm/war/war/x/x comps then quad enhancement is high rating viable due to retarded amounts of healing+stacking healin stream glyph, ofc mastering primal elementalist is necessary

beside that its also incredible strong in small battlegrounds, like ele shamans in s8, may not as strong in 40 bgs as elemental because ... well because melee..

[Kromtor]

I haven't looked into enh so Krusch may be on to something, especially if they have a reliable insta kill shot - I didn't think anybody had that anymore at least not at range. Another grind to 90 followed by an honor grind I suppose.

[Ualaa]

If you're horde, strongly consider Magtheridon <The Zerg>.
We have 18 active boxers, at the moment... I think four of them are 10-boxers.
Camping the Stormwind AH has been fun, and <For the Horde> runs too.

If you're alliance, take a hard look at Kil'jaeden <Legion of Boom>.
Again, a lot of boxers, which is rather fun to play with.

Pretty sure you're US based.
If you're EU based:
Alliance > Outland > Autobots Roll Out
Horde > Grim'Batol > GIMP

Playing with other boxers absolutely rocks.
Going with 30 boxed toons, into an AV or IoC is quite fun and devastating for the other side...




You get Honor points from winning battlegrounds, or achieving objectives.
You get Conquest points from winning random battlegrounds, from rated battlegrounds and from arena.
I believe you also get some Conquest from whatever the Call to Arms BG is.

You can blacklist a couple of BGs, which you'll never get from "Random", unless they're the CTA for that period.




The advent of Real ID and Battletags is great too.
As Horde, you can do RathStrat AV's (where the goal is HKs) and the win rate is close to 99%.
Alliance can do QQ (or it is QueQue?), which is similar.

You real ID friend request the wait list holder.
Join their vent.
Basically get invited after 30-45 mins wait.
Then run as many games as you'd like.

Worst case scenario, you're not terribly interested in this type of play...
But it will get you full Honor gear, without a lot of pain in the process, and likely in a relatively short period compared to running BGs on your own.

[heyaz]

I haven't looked into enh so Krusch may be on to something, especially if they have a reliable insta kill shot - I didn't think anybody had that anymore at least not at range. Another grind to 90 followed by an honor grind I suppose.

The reliable insta kill shot is within a 3 minute window when you are in Ascendance and not CC'd. Stormblast (stormstrike under ascendance) hits for about quadruple and is all nature damage, bypassing armor. Correct me if I'm wrong but outside of that, enhance damage with stormstrike and lava lash is like auto-attacking compared to other melee. The kill shot with elemental back in BC was CL + ES. In wrath it was 4x lava burst + 4x FS/ES and or CL to connect at the same time - but this could be repeated every 10-15 seconds or so, you didn't need to wait for elemental mastery to come back up although it helped.

How do you kill anything quickly outside of ascendance every 3 minutes? You need a lot of uptime (not something you get often these days) to get kills after that is over. You need lucky windfury procs, stormlash, and some big stormstrike/lava lash hits to put out any real damage and it's not reliable. Correct me if I'm wrong but that was my limited experience with enhance, they've always been a CD, 2-3 minute cooldown class with mediocre damage in between.

As far as I can tell, elemental just doesn't have an insta-kill, period. With maxed pvp power and high spell power you may be able to get a good 200-250k hit with ele blast + earth shock but players have 350-400k and ele blast has to be hard casted unless you took Ancestral Swiftness. It's not a guaranteed crit and shaman have negligible crit with good gear (around 12%)
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Novoz/simple

Ascendance + lava burst in ele can score a kill but that's just because you can rapidly launch wet noodles for 15 seconds until something dies. But you get cc'd the second you pop it and need a good 5+ seconds (an eternity in arena) to get off that many lava bursts.

[Shodokan]

I do suggest you to play quad enhance, sustain damage and healing is really good, the oneshot macro is like those from elemental shamans back in bc, no travel time, no gcd between and a guaranteed kill, I'm currently always lurking around between 1,6 1,7k , for sure I need either a good resto shaman or druid (currently have neither), some major problems are getting fixed with 5.1, maxing out gear will ofc also have a big impact on the comps performance, once I'm not getting oneshoted within the first 2 seconds of the fight by bm/war/war/x/x comps then quad enhancement is high rating viable due to retarded amounts of healing+stacking healin stream glyph, ofc mastering primal elementalist is necessary

beside that its also incredible strong in small battlegrounds, like ele shamans in s8, may not as strong in 40 bgs as elemental because ... well because melee..

DKs will also be much more viable as soon as BM/Warrior burst gets fixed

But honestly warrior damage is so dumb that you can play wheelchair cleave in 3's once again (rshaman/hpal/warrior) and wait for a 5 stack of Taste For Blood and kill someone in a single heroic strike. If that doesn't show you how dumb this expansion is then I don't know how else to explain it.

5's have high representation on bg9 but every other bg seems to be super prone to win-trading (my old bg shadowburn as a perfect example, when i queued above 2200 i'd get ddosed by the r1 team if they were playing because they straight lost 100% of games they played me last season)

If you want to do 5's I'd highly suggest a multi-class comp. Enhance and dks will be okay especially if you GRIND with the mmr changes next patch. But with that said... higher rated players who play more will always out-scale you.

[heyaz]

i'd get ddosed by the r1 team if they were playing because they straight lost 100%

How exactly are these teams getting your IP address to DDoS you?

And not to mention, people are serious enough about this now to rent time on a botnet to perform a DDoS? That kind of thing used to be expensive and was used for taking down websites for either financial gain or to make some kind of protest. I didn't realize it was so commoditized that some wow jerk offs can rent one to ddos a someone at will.

[Fat Tire]

How exactly are these teams getting your IP address to DDoS you?

And not to mention, people are serious enough about this now to rent time on a botnet to perform a DDoS? That kind of thing used to be expensive and was used for taking down websites for either financial gain or to make some kind of protest. I didn't realize it was so commoditized that some wow jerk offs can rent one to ddos a someone at will.

Skype was the easiest way, but now there are more advanced ways and really its pretty common knowledge. Tech has really come along and you dont need very much at all to cause someone to disconnect from wow, even if they log right back in by then you will have killed their team. You dont have to flood an ip with packets from a shit load of bots the way people do to take down large websites.

[heyaz]

but now there are more advanced ways and really its pretty common knowledge

indulge me then


Tech has really come along and you dont need very much at all to cause someone to disconnect from wow, even if they log right back in by then you will have killed their team. You dont have to flood an ip with packets from a shit load of bots the way people do to take down large websites.

You could take down a host with 1 packet 15 years ago, it's not "tech"
again, specifics?

I still feel like they probably obtained the IP prior when you were on Skype, Vent, visited their web site, or whatever. Not through wow directly, but again since it's common knowledge maybe someone could share it with me.

[Fat Tire]

indulge me then



You could take down a host with 1 packet 15 years ago, it's not "tech"
again, specifics?

Are you seriously asking how to ddos other players? I dont think the mods would like that, but grab a shell booter, I got the script.

[heyaz]

I have no interest in doing this, I'm curious as to how Shodokan and others cannot seem to avoid it, since you said there are advanced ways of getting IP addresses and it's common knowledge, yet all I've ever heard of is through Skype or Vent.

[Ellay]

Back on track, what's the DK build that everyone is loving. Can you play 5 previously and heal with vampiric touch or do you need a dedicated healer type?

[Fat Tire]

I have no interest in doing this, I'm curious as to how Shodokan and others cannot seem to avoid it, since you said there are advanced ways of getting IP addresses and it's common knowledge, yet all I've ever heard of is through Skype or Vent.

The only thing someone needs to get your ip from skype is your user name and then trace your ip using Skype resolvers. This isnt rocket science. Why would anyone use other methods if grabbing it from skype works. Most people that play wow use skype to communicate. I know I said there are other ways, if you dont believe me, thats fine. I am not here to prove anything or provide details and since this is a public website its not in my best interest, bottom line is it happens and its easy. The sad part is that there are people who take a game so seriously that they have to resort to something that is illegal.

[Kromtor]

Ellay, I haven't fully looked into it I've just messed with blood, but it seems that the all of the group healing abilities of the DK have been removed. They heal themselves quite strongly still though with death strike, vampiric blood, rune tap, etc. The only thing it appears you can do as far helping allies is with the death coil glyph which gives them a shield which could buy them time to heal themselves. I haven't tested it though and the tooltip makes it seems rather tiny.

Plus you get a battle res which is great in PvE

[Fat Tire]

I personally dont like boxing dks because of the way KM works with obliterate, since obi is you burst/dmg dealer in pvp. If you are boxing 4 and only 2 have the KM procs and you press your Obi button, only 2 are going to crit. Obi's are only good if they crit. I dont know, personally I like more control over my dps and keeping track of KMs across a team is not very fun to me.

[Ellay]

Either way the discussion is great. I'm probably a week out before I get back into the actual game. So just doing a ton of research.

I was kind of leaning towards the DK + Paladins or Enhancement Shamans, but either way I have a set of Dk's / Paladins / Shamans to work with and I guess with the scroll of res you can just instant boost anything to 80? besides monk of course.

Kromtor if the DK's don't have much in the way of healing, why would you consider dropping the dk / 4 ret paladin team for more dk's if they won't survive. Or is it the hope of bursting down before they need the heals.

[remanz]

Melees, I tried, DKs, Rets, Warriors, Enhances.

Frost DK:

Overall damage Frost DKs are far ahead of everything else. Sustain + burst > Rets or Warriors. It is squishier vs the other 2. So you only got about 1.7 HP bar with dark pact to zerg someone down. Frost DKs are weaker than they are in Cata. Blood DKs are broken. It is currently not really dying in arena. So Death Strike for blood is getting a nerf.

Warriors:

Warriors are the burst king obviously, but that's going away with avatar nerf and possible 5 stack of taste for blood reduced to 3. 1 change I don't quite get with MOP is the "be able to sit in defense stance to do everything now, and defense stance is -25% by default ? wot? " So warriors are walking around with a 25% damage reduction by default. I also played warrior solo with my friends. I just sit in 1h + shield to mortal strike + overpower + overpower to gain taste of blood stacks. As soon as I get 5, I swap 2h and do colossus smash -> all CDs -> heroic strike 1 shot. It is a 300k + heroic strike. There is no stopping it If I have trinket + avatar ready. Boxing wise, warriors are not so great, the damage outside of the CDs are shitty. No anti mass CC (mass spell reflect doesn't work against AOE CC). So I can't keep be in melee all the time.

Rets:

Boxing wise, rets are just not working at all as DPS. They are the ultimate support in arena. With god like off healing, double freedom, double HOS, double HOP, and shitty damage. Rets got a small burst window with wings + HA. Even that it is baby damage comparing to what DKs and warriors can do. 4 Rets cannot even global a clothie even with CDs all burnt. It is very slow. 5 holy power templar's verdict supposed to be rets' hardest hitting skill. That hits non-crit for 38k, nearly useless.

Enhances:

I didn't get to try a whole lot about enhances due to lack of gears. But I like the burst potential. They do need the healers to be able on ball with the healings or defensive CDs. With warriors getting nerfed, I think enhance will easily top warriors in burst as it is range.


edit: I tried all these combos with 5s. None of them are working for 5 box, at least for me. 5s in US bloodlust battlegroup are 10mins queue with all those pro teams boosting for money. Not enjoyable for boxers. So I switched to 2s and 3s at the moment. 2s are full of teams that are trying to cap points. So I get a lot of wins there. Once going above 1500 ratings, it becomes competitive. No healer, no win.

[heyaz]

Obi's are only good if they crit..

No they are good without a crit as well, they just hit for half as much. With it being so easy to stack up all diseases in order to max obliterate damage, it's still a good burst. It would be nice to be able to easily manage KM procs across all DKs but as of now they are still doing the most burst despite probably not having KM procced on all DKs. Sustained damage is also fairly high.

On another note, the amount of CC protection DK's is probably better than any other class in the game right now:
1. AMZ anti all magic debuffs including fear, poly, and death grip
2. lichborne anti-fear/seduce/sleep
3. pillar of frost anti-knockback, including deathgrip
4. IBF anti-stun
5. pillar of frost glyphed = 1 minute trinket with no shared cooldown, if you want to sacrifice some burst. With your pvp trinket that's 3 trinkets out of anything every 2 minutes. If you don't need the pvp trinket, go with the other DPS trinket for another 1200+ pvp power and you can be rocking 45% pvp power easy

2, 4, and 5 can be used when already CC'd.

That and you have an aoe CC which is a bitch: remorseless winter. It stacks faster with multiple DK's casting it and it's a stun so it does not break on damage.

If you run several DKs it's probably worth grabbing 1-2 asphyxiate since you don't really need 4-5x chillblains as they're going to be slowed anyway. Asphyxiate turns strangulate into a stun, making it useful against non-casters. Yes, you lose strangulate, but I can't imagine many scenarios where you would need to use 4-5 strangulates within the cooldown window, and if you did, asphyxiate accomplishes the same thing.

[remanz]

That and you have an aoe CC which is a bitch: remorseless winter. It stacks faster with multiple DK's casting it and it's a stun so it does not break on damage.


Lately, I've seen a lot of DKs ditching remorseless winter for desecrated ground for CC immune. I do think the AOE freeze is a bit overrated. With multiple DKs, should just go immune to CC and pew pew. Combined with anti magic shell, you got as much up time as any melees can get.

[heyaz]

boxers ditching remorseless winter or single players? I see desecrated ground pretty often among single players but I don't know if multiboxers are ditching it. You do have to stay within that little circle to be immune... but I guess you could death grip everyone in there.

[remanz]

single. there aren't that many boxing DK teams. Remorseless winter can only freeze melees (even melees know to run away from it now). Also even if you freeze someone, doesn't mean ranges can't CC you. I haven't tried swapping all to Desecrated ground, just a thought. If we go anti CC, might as well go all the way.

grip someone in, then asphyxiate his ass.

[heyaz]

single. there aren't that many boxing DK teams. Remorseless winter can only freeze melees (even melees know to run away from it now). Also even if you freeze someone, doesn't mean ranges can't CC you. I haven't tried swapping all to Desecrated ground, just a thought. If we go anti CC, might as well go all the way.

grip someone in, then asphyxiate his ass.

there are a lot of DK boxers... you should see magtheridon
it's half the guild

[Shodokan]

Remorseless winter is useless against: Mages, Spriests, Warlocks, Druids, Anything with a paladin on the team, shaman who spec into freedom totem, death knights, warriors, hunters, monks... The only time it is useful at all it seems is when their "hey i can gtfo" buttons are on cooldown. Multiple grips helps but it normally isn't enough to secure a kill even with asphixiating multiple targets (healers) into a stun on one of them (from hpaladin) into blind.... there just isn't enough CC for the comp in comparison to something like godcomp (mage/spriest/warrior/druid/shaman) which has ring, AOE fear, stun x 4, silence, cyclone, hex, disarm x 2 or another similar comp ive seen run (hpal/druid/mage/demo lock/warrior) or even the most notable quad dps comp (Mage/Warrior x 2/BM/Hpal).

Class stacking limits your crowd control and effectiveness right now. Most high end 5's games have 2-3 focusing, one dps that is mainly dedicated to control. Dks have a lot of burst (if they crit) but otherwise they have very high sustained damage but fall over insanely fast unless you can cycle your defensives (and effectively doing so on 4 toons is a pain in the ass). The changes to dispel screws so many comps out of being able to be CC'd and still get out if it effectively.

Honestly if you are dead set on coming back I wish you the best of luck my friend but IMO this is the single worst expansion to come back for if you want to PVP.

What I'm personally doing is leveling my warriors to play with friends for fun.

@heyas i've already gone over how i got ddosed, the person who owned the only real pvp guild on the server basically had people add him to our calls when we were playing 3's or 5's or w/e (so i basically couldn't play with anyone but two friends) and he did the same shit to them through people he know that knew them.

[Fat Tire]

No they are good without a crit as well, they just hit for half as much.

Yea, that is the problem and no its not good.

Your theorycrafting is good and I await the practical application.

If Ellay is only coming back to play and stream world pvp and rath strat av, he will be very happy with dks along with 90% of dk boxers. I would rather shove bamboo shoots up my finger nails personally.

[Shodokan]

Yea, that is the problem and no its not good.

Your theorycrafting is good and I await the practical application.

If Ellay is only coming back to play and stream world pvp and rath strat av, he will be very happy with dks along with 90% of dk boxers. I would rather shove bamboo shoots up my finger nails personally.

Exactly. No one on Mag even does 5's.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/ruin/5v5?comp=&team=&realm=78&faction=&minRating=&maxRating=&compType=all

There are so few boxers doing 5's in the US AT ALL. I mean no one has even broken 1500 yet. Almost every boxer is on Bloodlust BG this season it seems.

[remanz]

Exactly. No one on Mag even does 5's.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/ruin/5v5?comp=&team=&realm=78&faction=&minRating=&maxRating=&compType=all

There are so few boxers doing 5's in the US AT ALL. I mean no one has even broken 1500 yet. Almost every boxer is on Bloodlust BG this season it seems.

Ya. pretty much all in bloodlust. 3s are also very competitive. Above 1600, there are no easy wins, even for 1 box. I think the general level of skills for pvpers have gone up significantly. Everywhere I go, I meet god combo or KF cleave.

[Shodokan]

Ya. pretty much all in bloodlust. 3s are also very competitive. Above 1600, there are no easy wins, even for 1 box. I think the general level of skills for pvpers have gone up significantly. Everywhere I go, I meet god combo or KF cleave.

Comp =/= skill

People making comps that are kinda crap and still get 2200+ are skilled :P

But yes a lot of people got a better understanding of how to CC.

[remanz]

all these discussions about melees, none of them will be more effective than a 5 boxed BM hunter team I am afraid.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/arena/kiljaeden/5v5/thunderbrewtavernDOTcom/

Stealth open, 30 pets -> no BOP/Immunity you die, even with BOP you die a little later -> double deterrence he wins. I got facerolled by this team several times in 5s. That was before the stamped pet nerf though

[Shodokan]

all these discussions about melees, none of them will be more effective than a 5 boxed BM hunter team I am afraid.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/arena/kiljaeden/5v5/thunderbrewtavernDOTcom/

Stealth open, 30 pets -> no BOP/Immunity you die, even with BOP you die a little later -> double deterrence he wins. I got facerolled by this team several times in 5s. That was before the stamped pet nerf though

Ring of frost... oh look stampede is negated. AOE fear, AOE stun, AOE blind.... so many ways to negate it.

I beat someone running the same comp with EASE because of remorseless winter + icebound

[remanz]

well there are ways to beat it. Still I think it has higher chance than 5 non-stealthed melee zerg. Release pets is minimum control on his part. I have to rotate AOE CC to stay alive. I did use blind. But hunters kill way faster than melees. Also double deterrence is kinda B.S. DPS vs DPS, who can last through the 2nd Deterrence vs Hunter.

[pinotnoir]

Well I was thinking about coming back to mainly PVE and do a little PVP. I gave up on serious PVP last expansion but I still did it just not serious. It seems like the only reason to come back would be for PVE. At this point I doubt I want to level up all my teams just for that. So now it has me thinking about just playing 1 toon if I come back. With LFG and LFR you really don't need to do everything yourself anymore. I joined a new SWTOR guild that's raiding HM TFD. That may keep my eyes off wow longer.

[Ellay]

On the reference on worst pvp for boxers yet. I'll have to gauge it when I get in but when wrath came out a single DK could take out my entire group by just dropping death and decay, with the chance to fear/stun glyph the entire team just sat there and could do nothing. This was nerfed quite heavily in one of the first patches, much like they are doing apparently with hunters and warriors now. Hopefully it smooths out.

I'm not super dead set on Arena PvP - it's ultimately the height of PvP (possibly rated bg's? for boxers). I'll have to see if my playtime can align with being competitive. If not, then enjoying the game and producing videos for others to enjoy is the main goal. Again watching my own video from years ago was inspiring, I want more of that.

[remanz]

Oh Ellay plz come back and make more videos/streams. If nothing else, simply just for the community, to have Ellay and Kromtor pvp again. I am tired of checking out boxing streams on twich. Only to see Prepared 40 man camping alliance honor gear vendor on KJ.

[EllaysWife]

...

[remanz]

...

[candlebox]

This is good time to post this pvp video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gl2QnHNpkA

[heyaz]

On the reference on worst pvp for boxers yet. I'll have to gauge it when I get in but when wrath came out a single DK could take out my entire group by just dropping death and decay, with the chance to fear/stun glyph the entire team just sat there and could do nothing. This was nerfed quite heavily in one of the first patches, much like they are doing apparently with hunters and warriors now. Hopefully it smooths out.

I'm not super dead set on Arena PvP - it's ultimately the height of PvP (possibly rated bg's? for boxers). I'll have to see if my playtime can align with being competitive. If not, then enjoying the game and producing videos for others to enjoy is the main goal. Again watching my own video from years ago was inspiring, I want more of that.

When wrath came out a single warrior could also bladestorm your entire team to death until you were in full pvp gear. I remember not even playing until season 6 (or was it 7?) And that fear/stun glyph was the worst thing ever.

If you want to come back, roll some BGs, actually do world pvp again and play a more streamlined game (even the quests are easier - loot x off a mob quests drop 1 for everyone), I think you will enjoy it. If you want top level arena or RBG, now's not the time to come back.

[Lyonheart]

I'm sure you have seen this, but its inspiring! http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/48355-Enhancer-OP-!!!!!!!!!!

[Shodokan]

I'm sure you have seen this, but its inspiring! http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/48355-Enhancer-OP-!!!!!!!!!!

2h enhance is fun in bgs for sure.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

...

lol!

[Lyonheart]

... What we miss? Dang editing options!

[Fat Tire]

What we miss? Dang editing options!

It was actually pretty funny. I wish I would have quoted it.

Jist was everyone should spend more time hugging their loved ones and stop living in a fantasy world. It was directed towards ellay in general and was pretty clever.

[Ellay]

It was actually my wife too. Was legit. I've been talking to her non stop about coming back for a week. I'm sure she's tired of hearing about it. That was her way of 'responding' :)

[Fat Tire]

It was actually my wife too. Was legit. I've been talking to her non stop about coming back for a week. I'm sure she's tired of hearing about it. That was her way of 'responding' :)

Too funny.

Tell your lovely wife that her post was pure gold. Your going to be streaming and then randomly disconnect and I will think back to her post. "I WILL UNPLUG THE COMPUTER"

[remanz]

It is sure harder to balance out everything in life than to figure out wow pvp. How do you guys deal with that, I am curious. When you have to balance between RL (families, relationships etc) and wow. I assume most of us are not in college anymore.

[Shodokan]

It is sure harder to balance out everything in life than to figure out wow pvp. How do you guys deal with that, I am curious. When you have to balance between RL (families, relationships etc) and wow. I assume most of us are not in college anymore.

It's all about finding a girl who doesn't mind your hobbies. Mine is ecstatic that my hobby costs me nothing other than some time and gives me more money to spend on her lmfao.

[djensen2010]

Remorseless winter is useless against: Mages, Spriests, Warlocks, Druids, Anything with a paladin on the team, shaman who spec into freedom totem, death knights, warriors, hunters, monks... The only time it is useful at all it seems is when their "hey i can gtfo" buttons are on cooldown. Multiple grips helps but it normally isn't enough to secure a kill even with asphixiating multiple targets (healers) into a stun on one of them (from hpaladin) into blind.... there just isn't enough CC for the comp in comparison to something like godcomp (mage/spriest/warrior/druid/shaman) which has ring, AOE fear, stun x 4, silence, cyclone, hex, disarm x 2 or another similar comp ive seen run (hpal/druid/mage/demo lock/warrior) or even the most notable quad dps comp (Mage/Warrior x 2/BM/Hpal).

Class stacking limits your crowd control and effectiveness right now. Most high end 5's games have 2-3 focusing, one dps that is mainly dedicated to control. Dks have a lot of burst (if they crit) but otherwise they have very high sustained damage but fall over insanely fast unless you can cycle your defensives (and effectively doing so on 4 toons is a pain in the ass). The changes to dispel screws so many comps out of being able to be CC'd and still get out if it effectively.

Honestly if you are dead set on coming back I wish you the best of luck my friend but IMO this is the single worst expansion to come back for if you want to PVP.

What I'm personally doing is leveling my warriors to play with friends for fun.

@heyas i've already gone over how i got ddosed, the person who owned the only real pvp guild on the server basically had people add him to our calls when we were playing 3's or 5's or w/e (so i basically couldn't play with anyone but two friends) and he did the same shit to them through people he know that knew them.

I know this is kind of pointless buttt i run 8 dk 2 helas and i have 4 dks with gorefiends grip and 4 with remorseless and i set it up on a round robin when one dks grips and targets to one dk that uses remorseless. When im in a big bg with my 15 boxer buddy (he runs 9 ele shammies) ill just spam that macro and it will death grip all ranged and melee in and with 4 of those winters going they basically get insta freezed. works excellent against the 40 boxer

[Shodokan]

I know this is kind of pointless buttt i run 8 dk 2 helas and i have 4 dks with gorefiends grip and 4 with remorseless and i set it up on a round robin when one dks grips and targets to one dk that uses remorseless. When im in a big bg with my 15 boxer buddy (he runs 9 ele shammies) ill just spam that macro and it will death grip all ranged and melee in and with 4 of those winters going they basically get insta freezed. works excellent against the 40 boxer

I don't really talk about things other than arena and small group play. But that works.

[Fat Tire]

It is sure harder to balance out everything in life than to figure out wow pvp. How do you guys deal with that, I am curious. When you have to balance between RL (families, relationships etc) and wow. I assume most of us are not in college anymore.

My wife plays wow although no where near as much as she used to play. She only plays one class and one alt, she usually only plays on the weekends.
My goals are simple - I play my pvp characters 3box (war/dk/ret/enh) in different combos, "do what ever it takes to get t2" for my guys as quickly as possible and then have fun blowing up randoms/other mutiboxers in bgs/do some arenas and I fc for a rbg team sometimes.

I dont play very much. 10-20 hours a week maybe, sometimes just to cap and done. I dont do pve unless the wife wants something from it and needs my help.

Make the time for family first and then the rest is wow time or w/e.

[Khatovar]

It is sure harder to balance out everything in life than to figure out wow pvp. How do you guys deal with that, I am curious. When you have to balance between RL (families, relationships etc) and wow. I assume most of us are not in college anymore.

I don't have kids, so that helps. My husband and I are both gamers, so that pretty much solves the problem. We met through work but pretty much our entire courtship took place around and through gaming.

[Ellay]

This is what my wife said before I had her edit it out. I'm a meany I know.


I am so over WoW and you have not even started. EVERYONE---please go kiss your wife/girlfriend/significant other/goldfish/whatever and tell them they are more important than anything on your computer...

If you try to talk to me about your quest/characters/swords/whatever....I will ignore you.

I will stalk your videos just to make fun of you and your ridiculously bad commentary. See "jiggle jiggle wiggle" as reference of this at 1:14. Yes, I found that. Ridiculous.

After baby(ies) go to bed, you can play. If I am exhausted and have gotten said baby(ies) to bed already numerous times---I WILL come in and unplug your computer.

Please, continue living in dreamland that you'll be able to guide our son onto a path of Shamans, Death Knights, Paladins OR Mages; letting you believe this makes it easier to control you.



In response to remanz question above and to continue on what the wifey said... She's not really into gaming, but she does support me. This was her way of making a joke by with an undertone of knowing what's important.

That's what the past week has been about for me, is it worth the investment. I really really do miss WoW and I 'think' I've found a plan that works.

To give a brief history back in the day I was able to put in 10-12 hours a day into the game because I had no one to say otherwise. Times were good for self indulgence.
After taking a break from the game, found a wonderful wife and made a family. We now have an 18 month old and another one almost here. Kids (and a wife) but especially young children consume an incredible amount of time, and looking back on it it's the time where if you don't make the most of it. It will be a regret down the road. Yet it is a constant struggle for me. I've always gamed since I was 4, it's basically a part of me and our generation to my reckoning is not going to grow out of it like one does of a toy.
My 'plan' is to play/stream from 9-11pm each night guaranteed time slot for wow. That's at least 10 hours for the week not counting days off and I can still hit the gym in the mornings! I'm doing this for fun, it's my time to unwind and hell I miss this community :)

[Lyonheart]

I don't have kids, so that helps. My husband and I are both gamers, so that pretty much solves the problem. We met through work but pretty much our entire courtship took place around and through gaming.

The lucky bastage! The only gamer girls i know are way too young ( I'm 47 ). I play with my uncle and aunt every night via ventrilo.. I'm so jealous of them.. they are 60ish and have been gaming together since atari lol!

[candlebox]

I am tired of grinding/leveling/tards. I am slowly moving my way back to console. I have found that BG healing is where its at. Everyone loves you after they see you solo healing boss fights. My resto druids are relaxing, and having a team of 15 plus unable to kill you is awesome. One match I got stuck at FWGY and kept almost half their team on me for about 5 minutes. We won with controlling everything.

When I get super pissed/irritated with this game, I either walk away, or play a different spec.

If you are not getting anywhere dpsing right now, then try healing.

[remanz]

Panda was my best chance to get my wife to play WOW. She got hooked by the panda model and the demo she played at Blizzcon 2011. and then she quit after a few hours of leveling a monk.

[candlebox]

Lol women play healers you didnt know? Night Elf priests. :D

Seriously though.....We need so new vids people. LETS GO!

[MiRai]

Apologies if this was covered earlier in the thread (didn't feel like recapping 8 pages again), but when you do make your return do you have a faction/server you picked out?

If I remember correctly you were on Archimonde before, right? From the scientific statistical graphs I have at my disposal, it looks like that realm is dying or already dead at this point in time. I would guess you'd probably be bored with it and its economy if you re-rolled there again, especially the lack of world PvP (regardless of CRZ) if you were also looking for that aspect of the game.

If you weren't already looking at a specific faction/server/guild, perhaps these will help you decide:

http://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us
http://wow.realmpop.com/us.html

The best sites that we, as regular non-Blizzard employee players, have at our fingertips to check out population and progression overall.

[Ellay]

My best friend irl, is also what is dragging me back. He came back about 2 weeks ago and already picked out a server for us.. Bleeding Hollow. Which is actually the original server I started this game on.
I am currently torn between choosing Horde or Alliance. It's down to 4x Enhancement Shaman and a DK or 5x Shaman.. OR 4 DK and a healer, unsure which. Ultimately if Shaman I'd want to be Horde, if DK's I'd want to be Alliance..

Someone help me choose!

[JohnGabriel]

My best friend irl, is also what is dragging me back. He came back about 2 weeks ago and already picked out a server for us.. Bleeding Hollow. Which is actually the original server I started this game on.
I am currently torn between choosing Horde or Alliance. It's down to 4x Enhancement Shaman and a DK or 5x Shaman.. OR 4 DK and a healer, unsure which. Ultimately if Shaman I'd want to be Horde, if DK's I'd want to be Alliance..

Someone help me choose!

I would use the above links to find out the population of horde/alliance. My server has a small horde population so the AH economy is very poor, but on alliance side I make much more gold.

[MiRai]

My best friend irl, is also what is dragging me back. He came back about 2 weeks ago and already picked out a server for us.. Bleeding Hollow. Which is actually the original server I started this game on.
I am currently torn between choosing Horde or Alliance. It's down to 4x Enhancement Shaman and a DK or 5x Shaman.. OR 4 DK and a healer, unsure which. Ultimately if Shaman I'd want to be Horde, if DK's I'd want to be Alliance..

Someone help me choose!
That is... unbelievable. ;)

I recently re-rolled Alliance over there and dragged Svpernova with me. We're pretty casual at the moment and neither one of us are multiboxing, but there is drama over World PvP everyday on those forums. It's a very balanced server at the moment for both factions and I already know of a multiboxer who is the GM of a multiboxing-friendly guild (Unfair Advantage). I don't have an ETA when I might fire up a new set of RaF, but right now I'm just trying to catch up on this long list of ISBoxer tutorial videos before I head back to class next semester. ;)

[MadMilitia]

No kids here but 45-50 hours of work, two puppies and a house to maintain reduces my time considerably.

[daanji]

My best friend irl, is also what is dragging me back. He came back about 2 weeks ago and already picked out a server for us.. Bleeding Hollow. Which is actually the original server I started this game on.
I am currently torn between choosing Horde or Alliance. It's down to 4x Enhancement Shaman and a DK or 5x Shaman.. OR 4 DK and a healer, unsure which. Ultimately if Shaman I'd want to be Horde, if DK's I'd want to be Alliance..

Someone help me choose!


Unless you are dead set on Bleeding Hollow, have you considered Magtheridon and <The Zerg> ?

Currently, we have 18 active multiboxers that I can think of off the top of my head (that play everyday) and then a bunch of more casual boxers.

We sport a bunch of 5-boxers and at least 7 10-boxers.

We do a lot of battlegrounds, world pvp, Alterac Valley, some PvE, and harest a fresh supply of tears.

See the link in my signature for more details. We'd love to have you and your friend. In case you are hurting for gold, bags, or resources, we can provide with a startup fund.

Be sure to check out the new RageWhispers.com ! It has been recently revamp and show the latest of our adventures.

[Ellay]

Appreciate the very kind gesture :) I've already been in the process of moving my characters over. He was dead set on alliance, just going to stick with that for now.
The good news is though I think we are on the same battlegroup, get to see you in the field!

[MiRai]

The good news is though I think we are on the same battlegroup, get to see you in the field!
Yes, Bleeding Hollow is in the same datacenter as other Horde-heavy realms such as Illidan and Cho'gall (and Stormreaver if you consider it an heavy hitting server). This makes leveling as Alliance while CRZ is in effect all that much more interesting. ;)

http://www.wowpedia.org/US_realm_list_by_datacenter#Chicago_Datacenters