5 Warlocks, is it viable at 90?

[tsircou]

So I'm setting up a 5 Warlock team and I'm wondering if it's actually viable at 90? It'd seem with all the burst damage they have it'd work pretty well. I'm leaning more towards destruction, primarily because I haven't played the other specs much. I think the strength of Conflgarate, Fel Flame, and Rain of Fire all being instant casts you'd have some great burst potential. That's not even including the short cast times on Incinerate, and the burst potential of Chaos Bolt. So what am I missing here?

[Khatovar]

Viable for what? Ebony has been running 5 destruction (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/47885-Warlock-2-Step) warlocks since beta. She's done some dungeon (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/47120-MoP-dungeons-collected-WIP?p=368807#post368807) stuff and pvp.

[Ualaa]

Five warlocks could work, but four warlocks and a healer is a strong option too.

If you're interested in PvP, five of the same might be the best.
Although a healer gets you the option to ressurrect, should you survive on some of your toons.
The warlocks can Soul Stone, which is like a battle rez.

If you're interested in PvE, and 5-man content..
You'll likely want a healer capable toon and a tank capable toon.
That doesn't mean you need to be in those specs, but being able to spec in those directions lets you use Dungeon Finder.

Warlocks can play as a dot class (Affliction).
They can play as a pet class (Demonology), with limited tanking ability via glyph.
They can play as a nuke class (Destruction).

They have Healthstones and Soulstones.
They can Drain Life to heal.
Affliction has more heals then the other specs.
You can distribute damage partially to your pet with Soul Link.

I like the class, but am not sure what you want to do with them.

[tsircou]

For PvP primarily. Hmmm....not too many videos out there, I guess I'll have to venture out into un-treaded waters. In theory everything looks solid though. Maybe Ebony could chime in with some of her experiences? Or anybody else with 5 warlock experience.

[Apatheist]

I don't really see any reason not to add one healer to a PvP setup. Damage is nice, but I find my burst goes down quite a lot when I'm dead.

[Lyonheart]

Damage is nice, but I find my burst goes down quite a lot when I'm dead.

Well put!

[Ualaa]

The drawback to a healer on a PvP team, is that they're focused.
So you need a degree of survivability.

Less so in world/battleground play, where things are hectic.
And more so, in arena where it is five vs five.
But still, the healer (or different class) will get extra attention.

A Paladin as your healer can be a good choice, because you have three basic cooldowns.
Bubble is a survivability cooldown and Devotion Aura (previously Aura Mastery) will let you cast without interruptions.
All other class cooldowns go onto the "big button", which massively increases your healing through-put.
I also put the healer trinket on a separate keybind from the others, which has helped a lot.

If your characters are Destro Locks, they'll be standing and casting.
Which means a healer who stands and heals will work.
If you spec into Affliction and stay on the move, a more mobile healer (Priest/Druid) might be a better choice.



The flip side is, if you can survive without a healer, then you have a lot more DPS which means you need healing less.
The caveat is, can you survive without the healer?

My 5x Ferals had enough healing through Leader of the Pack and/or 5x Lifebloom/Rejuvenation.
They also had Predatory Swiftness, approximately once every ten seconds of combat against a single target.
The team did not need a dedicated healer for questing or battlegrounds; I don't imagine it would have worked that well in arena though.
By having five DPS, they were able to defeat quest mobs in Cataclysm that the 4x DK/1x Paladin team could not defeat; the Baron Geddon, in Mount Hyjal, was the only boss they couldn't "kill" while ignoring quest items that weaken the mob.
Conversely, the 4x DK/1x Paladin died on three other mobs that the Druids had no issue with.

So what survival, or self healing options do 5x Warlocks have?
Tier 1: Harvest Life (AoE Drain Life)
Tier 2: Mortal Coil x5 (15% heal, 45 second reuse) or a mixture of AoE Fear and AoE Stun.
Tier 3: Soul Link (Half of damage taken goes to the pet) or Dark Bargain (8 seconds of damage immunity, but then take 50% of what you would have taken over 8 seconds; on a 3 minute cooldown)
Tier 4: Unbound Will (same as your PvP trinket, on a 1 minute cooldown)... a 1 min PvP trinket, plus your 2 min PvP trinket...
Tier 5: Stronger Pets or an extra Pet for burst or no Pet (with 2% Regen every 5 seconds, and some spells are stronger).
Tier 6: Archimonde's Vengeance (opponent within 40 yards takes 125% of the AoE damage your team takes), which could kill someone who AoE's your team.
Glyph of Demon Training w/ Felhunter = Heals you, whenever your Felhunter devours a magic effect.
Glyph of Siphon Life = You heal 20% of your Corruption damage.
Healthstone = Heal
Soulstone = B.Rez

Is it enough survival/healing, to outlast opponents with your 25% increased DPS (5/4 = 125% of 4/4 =100%).

[Apatheist]

Self-healing isn't reliable, the character will be interrupted and CC'd during a switch. Rets can cross heal fairly well, but it's still not consistent.

Having bad teams focus your healer will win you games, you hope that's what they'll do :D One of the reasons DK's are so good in arena is their ability to peel. Warlocks may be almost as good with their instant fear, silence, etc.

Not having a healer just seems silly to me. Between LOS/CC/Interrupts, you're not going to be able to burst anyone down on a caster team. No healer just means the other team can sit back and pick you apart.

In BG's, it's already horrible getting a queue with no healers. You're doing a service to yourself and the rest of the team by bringing one.

[Ualaa]

OP just asked if they were viable.

We don't know if this is a PvE or a PvP server.
We don't know if they'll be questing up, instancing up, or running battlegrounds.

We really don't know what the question is in regards... viable for what?




If they're on a PvE server, then PvP is purely consensual.
5x Warlocks might be extremely viable for questing, dailies on the team, and battleground style PvP.
Possibly as DPS in LFR or a guild raid.
Pretty sure a healer (probably played by someone else) will be a requirement for success in arena 5's.

If they're on a PvP server, then they can get into combat at any point.
Sometimes they'll be outnumbered or against someone much higher level.




If the focus is on Arena, then the question of which viability still varies.
Is the goal to hit 1800 and to push for 2200+?
Is the goal to cap Conquest Points weekly?
With MMR, if you play on days when the masses are playing (Mon before server reset, Tue after server reset, Weekend afternoons), you'll eventually encounter teams at your skill level.
The system is not perfect, you do get teams well above and below you.

If the focus is on Battlegrounds, a much less optimal composition will work fine.

I've seen boxers post that they want their team displayed on Grid/Vuhdo/Healbot, but have no interest in displaying the rest of the raid.
Basically meaning, if they bring a healer it is purely for their team.
If your healer will help the raid/battleground out, as well as your characters then bringing a healer to a battleground is a bonus for others.

[heyaz]

Self healing from pure classes has never been reliable. It always looks amazing on paper until you start dying. Even hybrid healing won't keep you alive against burst for long at all.

In battlegrounds and outdoor pvp you could do some amazing burst but a couple healers around will ruin your day. In arena you'd have to really exploit a seriously overpowered and broken mechanic to get to a high rating, and then that could just get nerfed. If you either 4 box and have a separate healer, or 5 box with your own healer it may work out a lot better. You could always make the 5th a priest and run shadow when you want to dps or disc/holy otherwise. I ran that comp back in BC and it was fun in BGs but even when I tried SL/SL spec on the locks they still died sooner rather than later. I finished out that expansion as a dot and run group, all affliction + shadow priest. A lot has changed since then sure, but it's still just a pure class with some minor healing.

[Multibocks]

I don't really see any reason not to add one healer to a PvP setup. Damage is nice, but I find my burst goes down quite a lot when I'm dead.

LOL nice ;)

[remanz]

The last thing you want is to have your team split up after dead -> rez in BGs. Whatever it takes to NOT die, do it. Personally, i would bring 2 healers 3 dps. But That's just me, but 3 warlocks nuking is enough to bring down a focused target. The rest of the game is just survival.

[Apatheist]

2 healers

I had considered this in the past, but I feel like with the amount of cross-healing some classes have now, you can be pretty hard to kill unless you come up against an organized rated team. My comp is 4 Rets & a disc Priest. If they focus the Priest, my Rets can pump out huge HPS through Selfless Healer & WOG. If they focus a DPS, the Priest can free heal. Plus all 5 can ressurect.

Moonkins could be good. Or shadow Priests. Both have in-form healing and solid group-wide healing cooldowns now. I don't think either would be viable in arena, but for random BG's and PVE they'd be great fun.

[ebony]

The last thing you want is to have your team split up after dead -> rez in BGs. Whatever it takes to NOT die, do it. Personally, i would bring 2 healers 3 dps. But That's just me, but 3 warlocks nuking is enough to bring down a focused target. The rest of the game is just survival.

i play 5 locks 2 healers very fun :D.

anyway sorry missed this post had a small dead pc prob :S hoping to get on this week and gear up then see what there like :)



For healing i been toying with using

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=56224

and

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108359

will get you a good bang of hp back very fast.

the prob i got using the glyph of healthstone as i would like to use others but if it works it works :)

[Ualaa]

I'm leaning towards 6x Warlocks, 1x Shadow Priest, and 3x Resto Druids.
I keep bouncing back and forth to 7x Warlocks or 6x with the Priest.

I like the extra buff and Mass Dispel.



I visited the CDC website, to get all their names.
It should be a fun team.

[remanz]

Well, check this out. up coming for warlocks

Destruction


Cataclysm (New) The Warlock channels cataclysmic power, immolating all enemies within 10 yards. After 4 sec, all burning enemies within 10 yards are knocked away and stunned for 5 sec. The channelling of Cataclysm cannot be stopped and the Warlock cannot be slain until it completes.

[Lyonheart]

Well, check this out. up coming for warlocks

Destruction


Cataclysm (New) The Warlock channels cataclysmic power, immolating all enemies within 10 yards. After 4 sec, all burning enemies within 10 yards are knocked away and stunned for 5 sec. The channelling of Cataclysm cannot be stopped and the Warlock cannot be slain until it completes.

Sounds fun!

[ctrolz]

I'm leaning towards 6x Warlocks, 1x Shadow Priest, and 3x Resto Druids.
I keep bouncing back and forth to 7x Warlocks or 6x with the Priest.
I like the extra buff and Mass Dispel.

I visited the CDC website, to get all their names.
It should be a fun team.

Nice team Ualaa, I have been toying with a similar team except 5 locks, 1 shadow/dis priest, 3 resto druids, and a mage for the 5% spell crit. Also I wouldn't have to level another lock. Not really sure the 5% spell crit helps this team for normal BG's though.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

For PvP primarily. Hmmm....not too many videos out there, I guess I'll have to venture out into un-treaded waters. In theory everything looks solid though. Maybe Ebony could chime in with some of her experiences? Or anybody else with 5 warlock experience.

DISCLAIMER: I haven't played a lock personally since early Cataclysm.

5 locks have always been pretty squishy. Furthermore, except for a specialized destruction build, they just don't have the burst to kill anyone protected by a healer (I chased a resto shammy once all the way from Tarren Mill to Southshore with 3 stacks of dots on him and he just dropped totems and healed through everything. And that was back when resto shams sucked.)

If your real question was "Are 5 locks faceroll in pvp?" The answer is no, and they never have been. They do shine in certain cases. Ebola's mid-air DoT kills were hilarious to watch. And classes that couldn't heal were pretty much dogmeat.

[Lyonheart]

Warlocks are a blast in lower level BGs.. fear=dot ftw 8).. but yea.. at max level not so great.

[ebony]

not been on wow much, but been waiting for av weekend ill let you know how it goes,

Glyph of Supernova (New) (http://www.wowdb.com/spells/135032/#0-16155) When you are killed, all enemies within 0 yards take damage equal to 10% of your maximum health per Burning Ember held.

now thats a spell if it stacks Yes your going to die but your going to take the hole off glavs room with you!

[JohnGabriel]

not been on wow much, but been waiting for av weekend ill let you know how it goes,

Glyph of Supernova (New) (http://www.wowdb.com/spells/135032/#0-16155) When you are killed, all enemies within 0 yards take damage equal to 10% of your maximum health per Burning Ember held.

now thats a spell if it stacks Yes your going to die but your going to take the hole off glavs room with you!

Looks like its only going to take melee down with you, and only the ones attacking you. In PvP thats kindof going to be a thorn in their side but not much else. Usually wont be more than 10% since you'll be burning through your embers for the fight.

[ebony]

Looks like its only going to take melee down with you, and only the ones attacking you. In PvP thats kindof going to be a thorn in their side but not much else. Usually wont be more than 10% since you'll be burning through your embers for the fight.


as this item is not in game as off yet i would think the 0 yard is a bug many times on beta we had a 0 yards on items thery normley use a def nameing if it was 0 yards think its ment to be 10 or 15 yards. and yes i was thinking for pvp ;)

[johny_mnemonic]

I have played 3 locks through BC and WOTLK, and 5 locks through CATA. I must say the damage is not there to kill someone in reliable time, ie. before they get healed/heals themselfs. Sure it was fun to stack 5x dots and what not, but single pala or DK pretty much wipped most of the team anyway. Coupled with healer and I was toast.

I have played aff, destro, demo and have found demo to be the best for me, because I love the demons and the simplicity of spell casting. With demon form it was possible to burst something down, but without it I was pretty much walking dead. I switched to 5x Dks (I have played 3 DKs since wotlk) and never looked back. It was night and day.

I played locks in beta and it was not that fun as it was during previous expansions. I decided not to buy MoP, because I dont like where it went. I may buy it in the future, but right now all 5 accounts are frozen.

just my 2 cents.

[Multibocks]

I don't know. There was a lock that would hunt my 10 man team down to kill them all by himself while I was leveling. I just couldn't do enough damage in between AoE fears and the damage he was doing. Really annoying when he would teleport too. But after 87 I got my revenge. I will say that warlock's CC's and damage seem out of control. With9 guys beating on him I feel like hes a paladin with bubble and LoH... and he can use both.