Anyone tried arena yet ?

[remanz]

Even for non-boxed, How is the burst vs healing + defense. Nothing is going down ? All 25min battles ?

I played some bgs. getting rolled right now as lacking gear right now.

[Shodokan]

Games in 3's can last 2 mins due to burst (bm hunter + something), or 20+ mins (mage/ret/druid vs dk/mage/shaman, mage/ele/priest, RMP)

[Nikita]

Been gearing my shamans in BGs aswell, at first I almost cried cus 1 lock could solo my team. Now Im at 16 % pvp power, and shit die. Get some kills by trinket, insta Elemental blast followed by (insta sometimes) Lava burst, then ES. Gonna try 5v5 once Im close to fully honor geared.

[heyaz]

Been gearing my shamans in BGs aswell, at first I almost cried cus 1 lock could solo my team. Now Im at 16 % pvp power, and shit die. Get some kills by trinket, insta Elemental blast followed by (insta sometimes) Lava burst, then ES. Gonna try 5v5 once Im close to fully honor geared.

I'm assuming that 1 warlock was full pvp geared and you were in fresh 90 with quest stuff? Cuz is a quest geared fresh 90 can own my whole team already, kinda makes me not wanna finish leveling them to 90 :)

[remanz]

At least pallies can survive. Pallies are pretty beefy this round with all the defensive stuff. But damage are not there, at least not yet that I can see. So I just run around getting feared/CCed to no end until I am out of mana and bubble.

[Kruschpakx4]

I think I've enjoyed fok aoe silience in arena more than bgs these days :D, srsly sometimes you feel like nothing dies, although you dont die too but anyway its so fcking boring

I've also done an arena game with 12% pvp power, at least the oneshot macro does its job but still pretty hard with all that cc stuff and warrior/mage damage, will see how its going with full gear.

[heyaz]

How is the Ascendance burst holding up at 90? I played a few WSG's when I hit 87 and with Ascendance + SWG it was god mode. Blow the hell out of level 89 flag carriers even with their healers, they couldn't stop it.

The problem I had at first, and will just come with experience, is when to use it. I ran into a couple 89 blood DKs who ate my entire burst through an AMZ I didn't know was up, and a pally with the run twice as fast as me thing just outrun me even with SWG up and I couldn't get enough lava bursts on it.

Survivability: the stone bullwark totem + 4x healing tides kept me alive against beast 89 ret paladins and warriors who would otherwise wreck my whole time in 5 seconds. But after those were on cooldown, way squishy. But this was level 87 with no resil or pvp power.

My other observation is that the "empowered" chain lighthing aka lava beam was garbage, not worth using the 15 seconds of ascendance when with ele mastery and/or bloodlust it was more effective to pick off individuals.

On another note, a good counter to all the mass CC, especially warrior/mage stuff will be crucial. I have this idea in my head of strategically projected capacitor totems and the old earthbind root + thunderstorm trick that procs in mid air and lands them 20-30 yards away, rooted.

[Palee]

I don't even know what to do level anymore, so I'm just leveling randomly whichever characters pop up on my screens when I log in.
Eventually, maybe by the next expansion I will have all teams up at 90.

[remanz]

Ok I just got full set of pvp gears in time before Monday night. How about gemming. PVP power > all ? I had a feeling PVP power > even primiary stats (Str) for pvp. Played some solo arena. Rets are best described as semi tanky + off healing + 2min per burst. Even the 2 min burst is mediocre comparing to Warrior, BM Hunter, or even Frost DK. As usual, the best tools Rets bring to the team is the off healing and support.

What I see from other offensive classes are:
1. Warrior and BM Hunter burst are retarded. Should not be ignored. Either CCed or take down first.
2. Demo lock is unkillable. Serving as a tank/bait in arena where locks run ahead to soak damage.
3. Frost DK outputs more sustained pressure and damage than warrior, but it is kind of squishy.
4. Mage, didn't see any good mages here. But they are definitely not as good as in Cata where they can pvp with just pve gear, and nobody can touch them. Some of these PVE mages, I killed them with just range attacks.
5. Both enhance and elemental shamans are squishy as usual. Usually targeted first by opposing teams. The burst from them are 2nd to warrior and BM hunter. But the survival is much worse compare to warrior and hunter.
6. haven't seen enough rogues/druids/monks/priests.

EDIT:

btw for shamans, 4 elementals, at around 30% PVP power, 4 elementals can 1 shot pretty much everything without immunity (even demo lock). It kinda felt like LichKing era. So aim for 30% pvp power.

[heyaz]

btw for shamans, 4 elementals, at around 30% PVP power, 4 elementals can 1 shot pretty much everything without immunity (even demo lock). It kinda felt like LichKing era. So aim for 30% pvp power.

By one shotting I assume you mean 4x flame shock + lava burst is a kill, not ascendance and spamming lava bursts in god mode equals a kill?

If so that's great to hear... I'm almost 90 and have taken a break at every level to pvp and even at 89 I still cannot one shot anything (maybe an 85 without pvp gear but who cares). The math makes sense though, 30 (or 40%?) base mitigation, 4x 30-40k lava bursts don't equal a kill on 160-300k hp. Nice to know some pvp power may change that.

[remanz]

30% pvp power is maxed out. All pvp gear + all pvp power gems. At that level, probably 2 elemental shamans can already burst 1 target down with a straight basic combo LB > FS > LVB > CL.

[heyaz]

I wonder if this early if that's the way to go, that'll be a huge loss of spellpower

[Kruschpakx4]

straight basic combo LB > FS > LVB > CL.

I've got heroic weapon and blue pvp gear; on a dummy that combo deals 19,1k, 8,9k 52k 17,3k = 97,3k *1,3 power ~126,5k *0,4 resilience ~50,5k *4 = 202k total, about 40% of a full geared player, ofc you do a bit more due to epic gear later in the season but still I doubt the effectiveness of that combo since it involves 3 casts

[heyaz]

I've got heroic weapon and blue pvp gear; on dummy thats 19,1k, 8,9k 52k 17,3k;; 97,3k total *1,3 power ~126,5k *0,4 resilience ~50,5k *4 ~ 202,4k, if your target is lvl <88 the combo would work

well that's good because I suspect I'll be facing a lot of level 87s in arena :)

[remanz]

I've got heroic weapon and blue pvp gear; on a dummy that combo deals 19,1k, 8,9k 52k 17,3k = 97,3k *1,3 power ~126,5k *0,4 resilience ~50,5k *4 = 202k total, about 40% of a full geared player, ofc you do a bit more due to epic gear later in the season but still I doubt the effectiveness of that combo since it involves 3 casts

hm, you sure about the number ? I don't have a geared shaman, but my friend has a fully pvp geared elemental shaman. and he bursts my DK down within 6 seconds. Solo

97.3k x 1.3 = 126.5k x 0.4 (???) why 0.4 here. should be 0.6 isn't it ? should output 80k per shaman still this number is kinda low.

[valkry]

hm, you sure about the number ? I don't have a geared shaman, but my friend has a fully pvp geared elemental shaman. and he bursts my DK down within 6 seconds. Solo

97.3k x 1.3 = 126.5k x 0.4 (???) why 0.4 here. should be 0.6 isn't it ? should output 80k per shaman still this number is kinda low.
It's the base resil everyone gets, so all the dmg you do, gets reduced by at least 40%

[remanz]

It's the base resil everyone gets, so all the dmg you do, gets reduced by at least 40%

I know that. "reduced by" it should be x 0.6 (1 - 0.4)

[zenga]

I have a 489 weapon (http://www.wowhead.com/item=86148), fully pvp geared and my lava bursts hit for 46k on geared players. Which is a complete joke. Solo ele is in a really bad spot, but amazing as a team to multibox. The damage is garbage compared to other specs (count the amount og globals it takes to kill someone), and the defense is weak.

[Kruschpakx4]

I know that. "reduced by" it should be x 0.6 (1 - 0.4)

fully geared players have around 60% resilience

[valkry]

fully geared players have around 60% resilience

Beat me to it

[Shodokan]

fully geared players have around 60% resilience

Perfect pvp gear = about 40% total reduction of PVE damage after PVP power is taken into account.

Theres a post discussing it on AJ/MMO-Champion.

[remanz]

well , the calculation already factored in pvp power. Then my assessment is off. So overall elementals' damage is weak. I tried to play 5s last night. getting 15+mins queues, nobody plays 5s anymore. So ended up queuing 3 at a time. and took all night to cap the points.

[Nikita]

Did arenas with 4 ele shamans. Got my cap pretty darn quick. Im only at 1500 rating with like 13 wins and 7 loss. Overall the dmg from 4 shamans are okay, you cant global anyone, but with critts on insta EB with trinket + Earth shock + LvB on a purged target is almost a guaranteed kill

[heyaz]

Did arenas with 4 ele shamans. Got my cap pretty darn quick. Im only at 1500 rating with like 13 wins and 7 loss. Overall the dmg from 4 shamans are okay, you cant global anyone, but with critts on insta EB with trinket + Earth shock + LvB on a purged target is almost a guaranteed kill

No healer?

And when/how did you figure Ascendance into the mix? Poke at them a bit then pop it, or wait till they bursted first then do it?

[Nikita]

4 ele shamans + a high duelist paladin. Tbh, I hardly use Ascendance, I even forget to use that damn stormlash. Havent done 5v5 since s10, still getting used to ele shamans and 5v5. But one thing Im using like a baws is hex, WS and purge. Hoping to push 1800-1900 before next reset.

[valkry]

It goes, your dmg, multiplied by your pvp power, then reduced by their resil.

Say you ahve 30% pvp power, they have 60% resil.

An attack does 100 dmg normally, now it will do 130 dmg to the enemy. They reduce that by 60%, you do 52 damage.

Your 30% pvp power doesn't cancel out 30% of their resil.

[zenga]

It goes, your dmg, multiplied by your pvp power, then reduced by their resil.

Say you ahve 30% pvp power, they have 60% resil.

An attack does 100 dmg normally, now it will do 130 dmg to the enemy. They reduce that by 60%, you do 52 damage.

Your 30% pvp power doesn't cancel out 30% of their resil.

This is correct. Except that pvp power doesn't really multiply your damage but rather increase it as in [normal damage + (normale damage * pvp power)].

PVP power has no influence on resilience, and the other way around. PVP increases your dmg vs players, resilience reduces your damage taken from players.

[Shodokan]

I can tell you that it is not actually reduced by 60% of PVE damage in full s12. Essentially the % increased pvp damage from PVP Power makes it so that 57.8% resil is less than stated. Theres a graph and explanation here

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/984349-Mists-PVP-Power-and-Resilience-Guide

Because of the linear scaling of PVP Power you can essentially increase your damage more than it is reduced. As you can see if you can manage to get 56.7% of your PVE damage vs someone in full s12 gear not completely gemmed for pvp power, and a warrior can effectively get 66.8% normal damage with t2 + full pvp power gems etc.

PVP power scales linearly where as resil has diminishing returns.

[remanz]

not sure about EU, but you guys actually get to play 5s at all ? on US servers. I can't get any match to pop at all.

[Nikita]

2-4 min que in 5v5. Its the same as its allways been. Got heroic weapons on all shamans now. Sitting at 30% PvP power + 16k SP. Pushing higher this week, hopefully i'll hit 1900-2000 rating. Will post how it went :)

[zenga]

PVP power scales linearly where as resil has diminishing returns.

Resilience does not have diminishing returns. You probably mean that once beyond a certain point, if you stack 1 extra resilience that you get less of a gain in absolute value. But that doesn't mean that it's proportionally worse (and that is what diminishing returns are).

Example:

A player has 30% mitigation, so it means that if you deal 100 damage, he will take 70 damage.
That player adds another 20% mitigation, so if you deal 100 damage to him, he will eat 50 dmg.
By stacking an extra 20% resilience, he takes 29% less damage than before.

Which is basically exactly the opposite of diminishing returns. Because the higher your mitigation is, the higher that the effect of adding more resilience iwill be, just not in absolute numbers.

An more extreme example:

You have 10% resilience and add 1%, If a player deals 100 damage to you, you would receive 90, with increasing your resilience by 1% you will now take 89 damage. or you have just reduced the anount of damage you took by 1,2%.
In other words: the effect of adding 1% mitigation is a 1.2% dmg reduction taken.

You have 90% resilience and add 1%, If a player deals 100 damage to you, you would receive 10, with increasing your resilience by 1% you will now take 9 damage. or you have just reduced the anount of damage you took by 10%.
In other words: the effect of adding 1% mitigation is a 10% dmg reduction taken.

[remanz]

2-4 min que in 5v5. Its the same as its allways been. Got heroic weapons on all shamans now. Sitting at 30% PvP power + 16k SP. Pushing higher this week, hopefully i'll hit 1900-2000 rating. Will post how it went :)
I assume this is EU ?

[Shodokan]

Resilience does not have diminishing returns. You probably mean that once beyond a certain point, if you stack 1 extra resilience that you get less of a gain in absolute value. But that doesn't mean that it's proportionally worse (and that is what diminishing returns are).

Example:

A player has 30% mitigation, so it means that if you deal 100 damage, he will take 70 damage.
That player adds another 20% mitigation, so if you deal 100 damage to him, he will eat 50 dmg.
By stacking an extra 20% resilience, he takes 29% less damage than before.

Which is basically exactly the opposite of diminishing returns. Because the higher your mitigation is, the higher that the effect of adding more resilience iwill be, just not in absolute numbers.

An more extreme example:

You have 10% resilience and add 1%, If a player deals 100 damage to you, you would receive 90, with increasing your resilience by 1% you will now take 89 damage. or you have just reduced the anount of damage you took by 1,2%.
In other words: the effect of adding 1% mitigation is a 1.2% dmg reduction taken.

You have 90% resilience and add 1%, If a player deals 100 damage to you, you would receive 10, with increasing your resilience by 1% you will now take 9 damage. or you have just reduced the anount of damage you took by 10%.
In other words: the effect of adding 1% mitigation is a 10% dmg reduction taken.

From past experience the amount of resil required for 1% damage reduction goes up.

Basically... with gear + gems you get more pvp power faster than you get damage reduction through resil which actually means throughout the seasons yes you will have more negation percentage but the increased damage will more than likely net a higher damage gain over said reduction. (vangurads did a whole video on this as well)

[heyaz]

2-4 min que in 5v5. Its the same as its allways been. Got heroic weapons on all shamans now. Sitting at 30% PvP power + 16k SP. Pushing higher this week, hopefully i'll hit 1900-2000 rating. Will post how it went :)

30% pvp power, so you went with solid pvp power gems in every slot? or some mixed ones to pick up socket bonuses?

I don't have full season 12 yet but it doesn't look like 30% pvp power is possible without gems in almost every slot.

Also, how did you find a good healer? I've been out of the boxing and 5v5 scene since wrath. It was hard to find a healer back then, I ended up with a dpriest that was very nice and dedicated, but the two problems were that he was a priest and that he wasn't very good - I blame him for getting stuck at 2100 and quitting. THen again 2100 in that season was #1-3 for boxers in the world, not counting cheaters and win traders.

So I have to convince a good paladin on the server to try it out, just for fun... someone that's already meeting their pvp goals in 3v3 and doesn't care that the team is experimental at this stage.

[Nikita]

Heyaz and remanz

I went for full PvP power gems in every slot, all the r1 guys go for that.

Yes, 2-4 min que in 5v5 are in EU, Im playing on EU Ravencrest, Alliance.

Without sounding like a total douche, Im actually pretty well known on my realm. Im nice to everyone, even haters. Ive done tons of 3v3 with 2200+ players. So there is allways some guys who wants to test it out. My former paladin who I played with in s10 just came back. He is pushing glad in 3v3 this season, so he will get the conq weapons and t2 weapon pretty fast, which helps a ton when it comes to surviving that retarded mage, spriest, hunter and warrior dmg.

Im still tweaking my macros for arena, would gladly share my ideas if anyone is interested

[remanz]

Ya agreed. everyone is gemming for pvp power now.
EU is great. I am stuck for US servers for now.

[Ualaa]

Resilience does not have diminishing returns. You probably mean that once beyond a certain point, if you stack 1 extra resilience that you get less of a gain in absolute value. But that doesn't mean that it's proportionally worse (and that is what diminishing returns are).

Example:

A player has 30% mitigation, so it means that if you deal 100 damage, he will take 70 damage.
That player adds another 20% mitigation, so if you deal 100 damage to him, he will eat 50 dmg.
By stacking an extra 20% resilience, he takes 29% less damage than before.

Which is basically exactly the opposite of diminishing returns. Because the higher your mitigation is, the higher that the effect of adding more resilience iwill be, just not in absolute numbers.

An more extreme example:

You have 10% resilience and add 1%, If a player deals 100 damage to you, you would receive 90, with increasing your resilience by 1% you will now take 89 damage. or you have just reduced the anount of damage you took by 1,2%.
In other words: the effect of adding 1% mitigation is a 1.2% dmg reduction taken.

You have 90% resilience and add 1%, If a player deals 100 damage to you, you would receive 10, with increasing your resilience by 1% you will now take 9 damage. or you have just reduced the anount of damage you took by 10%.
In other words: the effect of adding 1% mitigation is a 10% dmg reduction taken.

10% Resilience is 10% reduction.
20% Resilience is 20% reduction.
That's a given.

What he means is, at some point linear returns become diminishing returns.

As in, it might be 1000 rating for 10%, up to a point.
But then it becomes 1200 rating for the next 10%.
And 1600 rating for the next 10%.

PvP Power stays the same rating for each 10%.

[Shodokan]

10% Resilience is 10% reduction.
20% Resilience is 20% reduction.
That's a given.

What he means is, at some point linear returns become diminishing returns.

As in, it might be 1000 rating for 10%, up to a point.
But then it becomes 1200 rating for the next 10%.
And 1600 rating for the next 10%.

PvP Power stays the same rating for each 10%.

100% this.

[zenga]

Basically... with gear + gems you get more pvp power faster than you get damage reduction through resil which actually means throughout the seasons yes you will have more negation percentage but the increased damage will more than likely net a higher damage gain over said reduction. (vangurads did a whole video on this as well)

The pace at which resilience rating converts into absolute damage reduction slows down by each extra point of resilience rating you gain, which is basically a diminishing return on resilience rating for scaling purposes. However the importance/value of damage reduction increases the more you have. And it increases at a faster rate than the diminishing returns of resilience rating does, thus making resilience actually having stacking returns (dont know the exact word in English, but the returns do not diminish but increase)

Or ... the effect of adding resilience becomes bigger the more resilience you have. Thus resilience does not have diminishing returns whatsoever.

http://i.imgur.com/Wp3SF.png

B is the amount of resilience you have
A is the amount of extra mitigation you get per extra point of resilience rating.
C is the value of damage mitigation

The first curve goes down slower than the 2nd one climbs, relative to your amount of resilience.

I'm not sure if I'm the best at explaining this, and it might be confusing, but this is how it works.

Edit: I didn't say / give the impression that pvp power is worse or better than resilience, I basically just commented on your statement that resilience has diminishing returns.

[Shodokan]

The pace at which resilience rating converts into absolute damage reduction slows down by each extra point of resilience rating you gain, which is basically a diminishing return on resilience rating for scaling purposes. However the importance/value of damage reduction increases the more you have. And it increases at a faster rate than the diminishing returns of resilience rating does, thus making resilience actually having stacking returns (dont know the exact word in English, but the returns do not diminish but increase)

Or ... the effect of adding resilience becomes bigger the more resilience you have. Thus resilience does not have diminishing returns whatsoever.

http://i.imgur.com/Wp3SF.png

B is the amount of resilience you have
A is the amount of extra mitigation you get per extra point of resilience rating.
C is the value of damage mitigation

The first curve goes down slower than the 2nd one climbs, relative to your amount of resilience.

I'm not sure if I'm the best at explaining this, and it might be confusing, but this is how it works.

Edit: I didn't say / give the impression that pvp power is worse or better than resilience, I basically just commented on your statement that resilience has diminishing returns.

It stacks decently well... but the other person's information shows that pvp power and resil actually come to a point where you deal more damage % than the reduced amount should allow (Should only do 40% damage but does 54% etc)

I'm not saying resil is bad, or that pvp power is the best thing since sliced bread (it is better than main stats for a bunch of classes) but they do interact with one another and have an effect on damage done and the reduction of said damage being equal to if you had only reduced it by Y% opposed to the original X%.

[Owltoid]

There is an analysis on elitistjerks that describes why resil increases in value the more you have. I believe pvp power always stays linear but is theoretically second to resil. For boxers the priority is different due to reliance on focused burst to overcome our significant disadvantages (ie pvp power is probably the best as the alpha strike determines games)

[Shodokan]

There is an analysis on elitistjerks that describes why resil increases in value the more you have. I believe pvp power always stays linear but is theoretically second to resil. For boxers the priority is different due to reliance on focused burst to overcome our significant disadvantages (ie pvp power is probably the best as the alpha strike determines games)

Pretty sure the post on EJ, AJ, MMO and a few other sites are all the same thing that I linked.

[remanz]

I got some 5s matches in. Keep getting BM hunters x N + Warriors (4 - N) + Healer combos. These guys are unbeatable for now, not just for boxing teams obviously. Even a normal team faces them, if you are not BM + warriors, you are probably not gonna win. They don't need to CC , just faceroll.

[heyaz]

ew...

[Nikita]

remanz, try to precast healing rain before they engage. Then do AS, HTT and hex. After hex is up, purge em. Then do your thing.

[remanz]

oh , i would if i have 4 shamans :P. I run a melee zerg team with dk and rets. Not a good sign for me when they blow my team up faster than I can blow up 1 target. I think shamans can do better in this case with a more defensive strategy

[heyaz]

You play all 5? No dedicated healer I'm guessing?

[zenga]

It stacks decently well... but the other person's information shows that pvp power and resil actually come to a point where you deal more damage % than the reduced amount should allow (Should only do 40% damage but does 54% etc)

That is only true for warriors who DW 2H and humans (and obviously a combination of both), or for players who give up on the escape trinket. 5 months ago I basically wrote a post that the introduction of pvp power and base resilience was making the gap between humans and other races only bigger. Their (some blue) counter argument was that it was merely a problem with on proc pve trinkets, and that the introduction of pvp power fixed that. It's beyond my understanding that they don't see that.


I'm not saying resil is bad, or that pvp power is the best thing since sliced bread (it is better than main stats for a bunch of classes) but they do interact with one another and have an effect on damage done and the reduction of said damage being equal to if you had only reduced it by Y% opposed to the original X%.

Honestly there is zero interaction between resilience and pvp power. PVP power increases your offensive spells vs players and does absolutely nothing for your defence (and the other way around). You can compare what adding 1 pvp power does to a target, or how much pvp power you should add when your target increases his resilience with 1. But hat is basically exactly the same as comparing what adding 1 int would do vs your target.

Btw, like I posted in my previous post: resilience scales many times much better than pvp power does, there is never a point where pvp power overtakes mitigation (actually it should be effective health, as its a combination of both your healthpool and your resilience). Except for humans & warriors who DW 2h, which hopefully will be fixed soon.

[Palee]

5 months ago I basically wrote a post that the introduction of pvp power and base resilience was making the gap between humans and other races only bigger.

I don't think this is true. If it was, then why would a bunch of high end pvp players on Tichondrius transfer from alliance to horde? Just to gimp themselves even harder?
Knowing how elitist and min-max they are I doubt they would do this if humans were that much better than other races.

[Ualaa]

The interaction between PvP Power and Resilience, is always when comparing yourself to an opponent.
It is their PvP Power vs your Resilience and your PvP Power vs their Resilience.

Given an equal set of gearing, lets say full Honor gear on both sides, with equivalent trinkets and weapons...

If one were to Gem & Enchant entirely for PvP Power and the other entirely for Resilience, who has the edge?
As in, an equal amount of rating spent...
Which doesn't necessarily mean an equal amount of PvP Power or Resilience achieved.

If PvP Power scales (off of rating) better than Resilience scales (off of rating)... but 1% Resilience (which costs more rating to get) is worth more than 1% PvP Power (costing less rating to achieve)...
Which is a better investment, for a boxer... the Resilience (which will be a slightly lower percentage) or the PvP Power (which will be a slightly higher percentage)?
I'd assume, if the scaling stays the same (ie., linear gains on rating for PvP Power, but diminishing returns on rating for Resilience), at some point towards the end of the expansion, you'll have a lot more percentage PvP Power than Resilience, for the same Enchant/Socket options and that will be a winner.

But which is better now?
And if the answer is Resilience, at what point does PvP Power surpass it?

[Shodokan]

I don't think this is true. If it was, then why would a bunch of high end pvp players on Tichondrius transfer from alliance to horde? Just to gimp themselves even harder?
Knowing how elitist and min-max they are I doubt they would do this if humans were that much better than other races.

Classes that can be undead went horde for the most part (and their friends)

Because of dispel mechanics WoTF is very very useful in high end arena.

[remanz]

You play all 5? No dedicated healer I'm guessing?
ya. i don't have someone to heal me. Dedicated healer will make a difference.

[Nikita]

So what kind of rating do people have now? And with what comp are you playing?

[zenga]

The interaction between PvP Power and Resilience, is always when comparing yourself to an opponent.
It is their PvP Power vs your Resilience and your PvP Power vs their Resilience.

Given an equal set of gearing, lets say full Honor gear on both sides, with equivalent trinkets and weapons...

If one were to Gem & Enchant entirely for PvP Power and the other entirely for Resilience, who has the edge?
As in, an equal amount of rating spent...
Which doesn't necessarily mean an equal amount of PvP Power or Resilience achieved.

If PvP Power scales (off of rating) better than Resilience scales (off of rating)... but 1% Resilience (which costs more rating to get) is worth more than 1% PvP Power (costing less rating to achieve)...
Which is a better investment, for a boxer... the Resilience (which will be a slightly lower percentage) or the PvP Power (which will be a slightly higher percentage)?
I'd assume, if the scaling stays the same (ie., linear gains on rating for PvP Power, but diminishing returns on rating for Resilience), at some point towards the end of the expansion, you'll have a lot more percentage PvP Power than Resilience, for the same Enchant/Socket options and that will be a winner.

But which is better now?
And if the answer is Resilience, at what point does PvP Power surpass it?

PVP Power never overtakes resilience, unless for humans and DW 2H warriors. It doesn't matter that you get less absolute resilience per extra unit of resilience rating compared to PVP power per 1 unit of extra pvp power. Because the diminishing returns on resilience rating are slower than the increasing returns of damage reduction it offers. So at equal gear levels if the opponent adds 1 unit pvp power, you are gonna mitigate more by adding 1 extra unit of resilience than the extra damage he gains.

There are not hard caps or numbers, since there are so many other variables that should be taken into account, class/playstyle/your comp/their comp. The question is basically if your team needs more offense or defense, in a particular situation. And to answer that the player has to rely on his own judgement/experience, as nothing is set in stone.

[Ualaa]

Well... assuming four toons have the firepower to out-DPS one healer...
Which I'm not sure if that is the case, but once it is...

Stacking a combination of Resilience and/or Stamina, to get a longer absolute survival period, has been a good strategy for boxers in the past.
In both WotLK and Cataclsym, my DK's favorite gem was 40 Res.
We have the luxury of not needing the absolute most possible killing power on our only toon, as long as our combine DPS gets the job done.

More competitive levels of arena (for me 1600+), is about the only place where you need every choice to be optimal or near optimal to succeed.
In random battlegrounds, a 5-boxer with a half-decent composition will effectively be a raid boss.
I'd imagine 10-boxing will be the same...

Still, while boxing gives immense kill power, it doesn't necessarily let you achieve the victory conditions for the battleground.

[heyaz]

In wrath I went max spellpower, no resil gems unless i wanted the socket bonus. It was still possible to global someone; at higher levels though I had to use a invisible focus target in order to get the kill, and I had a very loud and audible grounding totem alert so I could purge it off. At 2100 rating and 2300+ mmr it was still possible to burst people down but no one would dare get anywhere near you - warriors would spell reflect, charge, then intervene back. Casters would pick off your grounding totems. They'd wear you out over 20 minutes. I only got totally obliterated by 2300+ teams twice I believe - once against an all melee team that went for straight zerg and just annihilated the entire team - I used to have a video of that on youtube, it was pitiful. Another was a 2500+ team who used no CC at all, it was Icefoxx (mage) and his crew in all pve gear. Soft as hell but they globaled my shaman one by one. Icefoxx had ice block wired to his brain and would pop it while LVB was in mid-air even when he was the invisible focus target. Pallies with legendary weapons kept everyone alive even when I got people to 5% hp they were back to 100% almost instantly.

Anyway, right now the problem with shaman maxed out on pvp power or spell power or whatever is giving max burst, they still can't kill anything. AND they're soft as hell. They're not even glass cannons. They're just glass.

A 4 boxing shaman would be lucky to take out two people right now even given max burst. If it's a resto druid and a warlock you probably won't even kill those two - druids can survive an all-out EM + ascendance rush, uninterrupted when they go tree form. Warlocks can take 20-40 casts of any spell an still somehow survive it. The others can be killed but their burst is so high as is their aoe cc and interrupts that you're going to lose 1-2 shaman in seconds and not be able to kill anything - warriors, shadow priests, and ret paladins come to mind here.