Can i box with this comp ?

[mihon]

Hello, ive been thinking of starting to box again, and i was thinking of quad boxing.

Board : MK MSI Z77A-GD65 Z77
CPU : CPU Core i5 3570K 3,4Ghz
Ram : Corsair 16GB (4KIT) DDR3 1600MHz/CL9/VENG
GPU : ASUS Radeon HD 7970 3GB GDDR5

Is that computer good enough for quad boxing ?


And i was thinking of how i would set the clients up, ive got 3 screens.
695

Like main in midle and 3 on the left one and webbrowser on the right one ? Or how would you do it ?

[heyaz]

of course. my 4 year old q6600 with 8gb ram and an ati 5700 can quad box fine with graphics settings medium/low. you should do fine - just make sure you use an SSD (even a cheap one), and disable windows' paging file because it destroys performance (for everything, not just boxing) - you don't need a paging file with 8gb or more ram.

I put my main in the middle screen, 3-4 alts on the left screen, and whatever on the right screen.

[mihon]

of course. my 4 year old q6600 with 8gb ram and an ati 5700 can quad box fine with graphics settings medium/low. you should do fine - just make sure you use an SSD (even a cheap one), and disable windows' paging file because it destroys performance (for everything, not just boxing) - you don't need a paging file with 8gb or more ram.

I put my main in the middle screen, 3-4 alts on the left screen, and whatever on the right screen.


Ok Thank you, what do you mean by windows paging ? ive got a SSD now and 2 other harddrives. The SSD is for windows.

But one more question, shall i have 4 world of warcraft copied on one drive ? or just play all for with one copy of wow ?

[MiRai]

Your computer is fine. Also, don't turn off the Page File, just shrink it (link below).


Ok Thank you, what do you mean by windows paging ? ive got a SSD now and 2 other harddrives. The SSD is for windows.
You should familiarize yourself with this guide:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1156654/seans-windows-7-install-optimization-guide-for-ssds-hdds
http://www.overclock.net/t/1156654/seans-windows-7-install-optimization-guide-for-ssds-hdds#post_15523325


But one more question, shall i have 4 world of warcraft copied on one drive ? or just play all for with one copy of wow ?
The answer to this is dependent on which software you use to multibox with.


disable windows' paging file because it destroys performance (for everything, not just boxing) - you don't need a paging file with 8gb or more ram.
Don't tell people to disable the Page File when you have no idea what programs they use on their computer. It's not that big of a deal to shrink it to the minimal 800MB that Windows 7 wants.

[mihon]

Your computer is fine. Also, don't turn off the Page File, just shrink it (link below).


You should familiarize yourself with this guide:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1156654/seans-windows-7-install-optimization-guide-for-ssds-hdds
http://www.overclock.net/t/1156654/seans-windows-7-install-optimization-guide-for-ssds-hdds#post_15523325


The answer to this is dependent on which software you use to multibox with.


Don't tell people to disable the Page File when you have no idea what programs they use on their computer. It's not that big of a deal to shrink it to the minimal 800MB that Windows 7 wants.


Okey thank you for your help, i am using Keyclone. But thinking of maybe change to another one if keyclone isnt the "best" now days.
Wich one do you prefeer ?

[MiRai]

Okey thank you for your help, i am using Keyclone. But thinking of maybe change to another one if keyclone isnt the "best" now days.
Wich one do you prefeer ?
ISBoxer is the best if you can afford it.
HotKeyNet is the next best if you want a free solution and you like to code.
Your existing Keyclone license could also be "the best" if you don't want to spend any more money nor learn to code.

[heyaz]

Don't tell people to disable the Page File when you have no idea what programs they use on their computer. It's not that big of a deal to shrink it to the minimal 800MB that Windows 7 wants.

Whoa, yes sir!

I've been going with zero page file on every machine I own with 8GB RAM or more for years, running everything from seven wow clients, to VMware, to Office, to enterprise software that wants 32GB ram, to video/photo editing, to GPU accelerated cryptanalysis software, and so on. I didn't just throw that out there because I read it on a forum, I've tested it extensively and never had a problem. Windows has a habit of paging very early, long before you are anywhere near out of RAM, like the old days before hard drives got silent and you could hear them crunching. That simple tweak is the single largest boost of performance I've ever been able to get out of a Windows machine, followed by an SSD of course.

I think the paging/swap system still exists only because people are still running machines with 2GB or less RAM, and they still sell brand new machines with 4GB or less. If you have more RAM, it's just hurting your performance. I've found with most programs if you are utilizing more than your 12-24GB of RAM all at once and need swap space, you're going to be exhausting other resources anyway, or you're doing something wrong (trying to run a dozen VMs at once and expecting them to be usable). Or running Firefox and its plugin container, the world's most popular memory leaks, with 50-100 tabs at once.

[mihon]

ISBoxer is the best if you can afford it.
HotKeyNet is the next best if you want a free solution and you like to code.
Your existing Keyclone license could also be "the best" if you don't want to spend any more money nor learn to code.


Okey Thank you so much for your help, i think ill get ISBoxer.

EDIT:

Any other tip you want to give me ? things i shall think of when starting ? Im going 4 shamans at first.
Anything is welcome :D

[JohnGabriel]

An article on page file,

http://lifehacker.com/5426041/understanding-the-windows-pagefile-and-why-you-shouldnt-disable-it

[heyaz]

Okey Thank you so much for your help, i think ill get ISBoxer.

EDIT:

Any other tip you want to give me ? things i shall think of when starting ? Im going 4 shamans at first.
Anything is welcome :D

Setup, even with ISBoxer (which makes it easy), will still take considerable effort compared to just rolling one toon and being ready to go. ISBoxer will have you ready to go to start leveling and as you get used to boxing you'll be adding more settings and more macros and streamlining the whole process. Don't expect anything to work perfectly right away, even experienced boxers are constantly tweaking settings and dealing with a game that wasn't exactly designed (although supports) multiboxing.

[mihon]

An article on page file,

http://lifehacker.com/5426041/understanding-the-windows-pagefile-and-why-you-shouldnt-disable-it

I´ve actully read that :D But thanks anyway, im gonna start boxing without windows pagefiling.


Setup, even with ISBoxer (which makes it easy), will still take considerable effort compared to just rolling one toon and being ready to go. ISBoxer will have you ready to go to start leveling and as you get used to boxing you'll be adding more settings and more macros and streamlining the whole process. Don't expect anything to work perfectly right away, even experienced boxers are constantly tweaking settings and dealing with a game that wasn't exactly designed (although supports) multiboxing.

Okey, well i know its easy and it takes alot of time to get it all right.

[heyaz]

An article on page file,

http://lifehacker.com/5426041/understanding-the-windows-pagefile-and-why-you-shouldnt-disable-it

A lot of theory in there, none of which I have seen true in practice and I have several machines all with very different purposes

But...Lifehacker is a site for quick hacks that "worked for me!".... at the end they guy claims to have a 6GB machine and his programs open quickly. Cool story bro! Grandma likes her programs to open quickly. I like mine to have performance once they're open.

Be that as it may, I would recommend the detailed article on the paging file to know more about it. But, in my experience Windows has not been keen on deciding when and when not to use it, so I've kept it disabled.

[MiRai]

Any other tip you want to give me ? things i shall think of when starting ? Im going 4 shamans at first.
Anything is welcome :D
You are derailing your own thread in the hardware forum. Don't just make a single thread and ask hardware questions, software questions, composition questions, and other miscellaneous questions -- It makes it impossible to find anything when you bundle several subjects together into one single thread in a random sub-forum.


Whoa, yes sir!

I've been going with zero page file on every machine I own with 8GB RAM or more for years, running everything from seven wow clients, to VMware, to Office, to enterprise software that wants 32GB ram, to video/photo editing, to GPU accelerated cryptanalysis software, and so on. I didn't just throw that out there because I read it on a forum, I've tested it extensively and never had a problem. Windows has a habit of paging very early, long before you are anywhere near out of RAM, like the old days before hard drives got silent and you could hear them crunching. That simple tweak is the single largest boost of performance I've ever been able to get out of a Windows machine, followed by an SSD of course.

I think the paging/swap system still exists only because people are still running machines with 2GB or less RAM, and they still sell brand new machines with 4GB or less. If you have more RAM, it's just hurting your performance. I've found with most programs if you are utilizing more than your 12-24GB of RAM all at once and need swap space, you're going to be exhausting other resources anyway, or you're doing something wrong (trying to run a dozen VMs at once and expecting them to be usable). Or running Firefox and its plugin container, the world's most popular memory leaks, with 50-100 tabs at once.
That's a fantastic story. It's also the equivalent of telling someone they can speed down a certain road because you say "I've never been caught speeding on this road because the cops don't patrol here", and then when they get pulled over by the police a week later for speeding... Whose fault is it?

Shrinking the Page File hurts absolutely nothing, eliminating it altogether can end up hurting something.

[mihon]

You are derailing your own thread in the hardware forum. Don't just make a single thread and ask hardware questions, software questions, composition questions, and other miscellaneous questions -- It makes it impossible to find anything when you bundle several subjects together into one single thread in a random sub-forum.


That's a fantastic story. It's also the equivalent of telling someone they can speed down a certain road because you say "I've never been caught speeding on this road because the cops don't patrol here", and then when they get pulled over by the police a week later for speeding... Whose fault is it?

Shrinking the Page File hurts absolutely nothing, eliminating it altogether can end up hurting something.


Okey sorry, i just didn't want the forum to get "spammed" but well thank you all for your help. I wont be asking anymore question unless its regarding hardware. Wich it looks like im done doing :D Thank you again all.

[heyaz]

That's a fantastic story. It's also the equivalent of telling someone they can speed down a certain road because you say "I've never been caught speeding on this road because the cops don't patrol here", and then when they get pulled over by the police a week later for speeding... Whose fault is it?

Shrinking the Page File hurts absolutely nothing, eliminating it altogether can end up hurting something.

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

I tried shrinking it and windows still pegs it like crazy. As far as the hurt from eliminating it, I either never experienced it or never noticed it. Don't know what to tell you.

Anyway, argument ends here. You can choose to close this or delete my posts, but either way I'm out. Just trying to give the guy a couple tips.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I hate to chime in on the whole pagefile thing but it is worth noting that no pagefile will probably work GREAT! Right up to the point where it doesn't. If you end up with weird crashes or bluescreens, you might end up having a hard time debugging what's going on. "Out Of Memory" (OOM) errors tend to be extremely erratic/intermittent. You'll notice that pretty much everyone in this thread commenting on this is saying there are caveats to running without a pagefile. There's a reason for that.

Running without a pagefile is somewhat similar to overclocking your 3.6GHz CPU to 3.8GHz -- 99% of the time it won't be an issue but 1% of the time you're basically screwed. If you're willing to accept potential problems, go for it! I'd definitely recommend keeping your backups up-to-date, though, if for no other reason that it is Just Good Policy(tm).

[heyaz]

The only thing I've ever gotten (when overdoing it with VMware) was a dialog in Windows warning I was running out of RAM - and you have plenty of time to fix the issue, it's nowhere near a crash. No blue screens, crashes, or anything like that. It's hard to believe I just got lucky and never experienced the 1% on so many different machines running different software over many years. You still have control of what's running and when you're overextending your machine.

A server, on the other hand, is a different story. Unexpected server load and the like, on machines that aren't run as desktops, now that could go south very quickly. I'd never run without a page file.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

and you have plenty of time to fix the issue, it's nowhere near a crash. No blue screens, crashes, or anything like that. It's hard to believe I just got lucky and never experienced the 1% on so many different machines running different software over many years.
Your sample size is small enough to make it purely anecdotal (not that you ever asserted anything else), plus I would suspect you're kinda like a bunch of us here in that you're aware and savvy enough to work through any edge cases you run into. ;) I tested various pagefile setups for and with the top two PC OEMs for about 10 years. You wouldn't believe how many oddball edge cases we ran into when the pagefile was either missing or too small. Granted, we're talking about machines that were always running an optimal memory size (read "least amount of memory we can get away with") for the configurations (I was working with small & medium business units) whereas you and most of the rest of us these days are running WAY more RAM than just about anything we do will use.