J/K/L/V/Z (Killer) Rogues...

[Ualaa]

5x Rogues is interesting... and you're definitely getting more difficult to counter / more of a threat to one-shot people... as your gear improves.

How are you finding 5x rogues?
What do you like?
What don't you like?

[3box]

I'm no expert on pvp, but...

Assuming you get the 1st kill, vanish and kill the 2nd, they cc and you blow trinkets, would you be able to take out the other 3 while they pick you apart at range? At that point it's 5 on 3, you have sprint & blind...hmm I don't know. That's the first thing I thought of. Maybe you could work in round robin saps to start off. Interesting.

[Shodokan]

The only means to kill something would be to kill it in two globals and vanish, do it again, prep and do that again.

It WORKS, but it is VERY VERY hard to pull off.

[Ualaa]

In the battlegrounds... Rath Strat, horde...
Alliance rogue boxer.

The first few times I saw this boxer, the horde considered him as free honor kills.
He basically had very little gear, or an initial setup that was not that optimal.

As the games have progressed, he's become a lot more of a threat.




A few of the more geared characters (who do a lot of the back cap), called me back because they could not handle him...

In that game, he opened with Ambush and dropped one of my DK's, not in a global... but still faster than I could react.
I tried to heal the second one, while the team was doing Howling Blast on his team.
He basically dropped the second DK at about the point where his team dropped.

In the second altercation, the Pally was able to bubble before dying (he opened on the Pally, instead of a DK)... but I was at a Frostwolf graveyard and he was in the vicinity...
And the graveyard was tapped by the horde, but in the process of changing (a couple mins left on the 4 min timer), so I knew he would attack at some point and was watching for it.
With the bubble and the 'Big Button', which blows all of the cooldowns, there was not enough burst to down any of my toons before the cleave (Howling Blast) got his set.

But I'd imagine I still have a gear advantage over him.
I'm not sure if he has Conquest weapons yet, or not... but that will be a strong upgrade when/if they're added.
Anyone in full honor, but no conquest, will likely fall in the opener.
And in BG play, you can be wherever... without a healer or two, on the opposite side specifically looking for the opposing team and ready for their opener.

I remember Asonimie really liking the team, in the Cataclysm beta...
But haven't really seen anyone post about 5x Rogues, as their team.
I do like the odd-ball or unique teams, and thinking outside of what we typically recommend.

[Shodokan]

In the battlegrounds... Rath Strat, horde...
Alliance rogue boxer.

The first few times I saw this boxer, the horde considered him as free honor kills.
He basically had very little gear, or an initial setup that was not that optimal.

As the games have progressed, he's become a lot more of a threat.




A few of the more geared characters (who do a lot of the back cap), called me back because they could not handle him...

In that game, he opened with Ambush and dropped one of my DK's, not in a global... but still faster than I could react.
I tried to heal the second one, while the team was doing Howling Blast on his team.
He basically dropped the second DK at about the point where his team dropped.

In the second altercation, the Pally was able to bubble before dying (he opened on the Pally, instead of a DK)... but I was at a Frostwolf graveyard and he was in the vicinity...
And the graveyard was tapped by the horde, but in the process of changing (a couple mins left on the 4 min timer), so I knew he would attack at some point and was watching for it.
With the bubble and the 'Big Button', which blows all of the cooldowns, there was not enough burst to down any of my toons before the cleave (Howling Blast) got his set.

But I'd imagine I still have a gear advantage over him.
I'm not sure if he has Conquest weapons yet, or not... but that will be a strong upgrade when/if they're added.
Anyone in full honor, but no conquest, will likely fall in the opener.
And in BG play, you can be wherever... without a healer or two, on the opposite side specifically looking for the opposing team and ready for their opener.

I remember Asonimie really liking the team, in the Cataclysm beta...
But haven't really seen anyone post about 5x Rogues, as their team.
I do like the odd-ball or unique teams, and thinking outside of what we typically recommend.

It may be fine in AV or a huge BG where you can instagib a stragler or hold a tower invis but in arena or other bgs i see them being a burden on the team as you can't maximize the usage of a rogue when playing multiples. Positioning requirements and such are just too much.

[Ualaa]

To a degree, that's true for 5x anything.

In a Warsong Gulch match, if my other five players can capture the flag at least once.
My team usually does extremely well, because my composition (Pally & 4x DK's) are difficult to deal with, as I play on their half of the middle and prioritize their flag carrier over everything else.
When I have to capture the flag myself, because my team cannot do so, I cannot intercept their carrier too... or if I do, another picks up the flag and goes another route.
And the team is by far the strongest I've played in a PvP environment.
Granted, this is non-rated, so the typical player has far less gearing and typically there is not strong coordination of cooldowns, crowd control and the like.
WSG is around 75% win rate.

Similarly, in EotS...
There isn't really an objective that needs to be done... like in AB where you click a flag and need to stick around.
The team essentially runs from one base they hold to the next.
With the sole objective of killing their players... which is all that is necessary to capture that point.
EotS is close to 95% win rate.

Aside from those two, my 5-box which is in more Conquest gear than Honor gear, I have no better than a 50% win rate (in 10/15 man BG's).
And while I'm not necessarily the best at PvP, by any stretch of the imagination, I do understand the strengths and weaknesses of the team... know my binds, and have a lot of practice with the composition.
And it is a stronger composition.

Any other 5-box group I've run, has been an extreme detriment to my faction in the battleground, in anything other than AV/IoC/WG/TB.
Even AB has sucked... I had one match, where I solo (5-box) attacked their 10 players at Blacksmith, killed them and took it... and killed their entire 15-man team, a minute later when they attempted to take it back from me (no help from my team)... despite having the power to kill any combination of their team, including their entire team (have to love opponents who use brute force/hit point depletion as their sole tactic)... having my five unable to split up, and thus unable to hold more than one of the five bases, resulted in a loss.

[Shodokan]

To a degree, that's true for 5x anything.

In a Warsong Gulch match, if my other five players can capture the flag at least once.
My team usually does extremely well, because my composition (Pally & 4x DK's) are difficult to deal with, as I play on their half of the middle and prioritize their flag carrier over everything else.
When I have to capture the flag myself, because my team cannot do so, I cannot intercept their carrier too... or if I do, another picks up the flag and goes another route.
And the team is by far the strongest I've played in a PvP environment.
Granted, this is non-rated, so the typical player has far less gearing and typically there is not strong coordination of cooldowns, crowd control and the like.
WSG is around 75% win rate.

Similarly, in EotS...
There isn't really an objective that needs to be done... like in AB where you click a flag and need to stick around.
The team essentially runs from one base they hold to the next.
With the sole objective of killing their players... which is all that is necessary to capture that point.
EotS is close to 95% win rate.

Aside from those two, my 5-box which is in more Conquest gear than Honor gear, I have no better than a 50% win rate (in 10/15 man BG's).
And while I'm not necessarily the best at PvP, by any stretch of the imagination, I do understand the strengths and weaknesses of the team... know my binds, and have a lot of practice with the composition.
And it is a stronger composition.

Any other 5-box group I've run, has been an extreme detriment to my faction in the battleground, in anything other than AV/IoC/WG/TB.
Even AB has sucked... I had one match, where I solo (5-box) attacked their 10 players at Blacksmith, killed them and took it... and killed their entire 15-man team, a minute later when they attempted to take it back from me (no help from my team)... despite having the power to kill any combination of their team, including their entire team (have to love opponents who use brute force/hit point depletion as their sole tactic)... having my five unable to split up, and thus unable to hold more than one of the five bases, resulted in a loss.

The game has been that way for a long time now, where kill/easy objectives where you don't need 3-4 people per base opposed to 5 per. On my old DKs i had a 90+% win rate on every map other than AB which was around 80%. You have to be a roamer in most cases and basically tell your team up front that if they don't defend a base YOU take, then its over.

It sucks but like you said thats how boxing has always really been. We excel in killing.

Rogues are great for taking objective flags and pouncing on people, but i've honestly never once had a problem obliterating any other boxer of any class (even 5 v 10) in AV/IOC, the gear might help them kill 1-2 fast enough but if you have enough AOE and their cloak is down... game over.