End Time group comp?

[MadMilitia]

Ok so I've raised my blood pressure quite a bit (with IE9, IsBoxer and WoW lately).

I've been attempting to 5 box the heroic End Time dungeons with little success. My character comp is:

Blood DK
3* MM Hunter
Resto Shaman


This group seems solid but has so much trouble in these dungeons. In summary, here are my woes.

1. Shaman. Shaman all day and all night. Always out of sync because of that stupid issue with the 'Face Target' macro I wrote in. It's supposed to halt them and make them all use the focusing lens to turn at the same time. Problem? The shaman refuses to do it when I'm spamming the mouse wheel. I have to wait a good heartbeat before the action will register across the board. Otherwise one does it and the other won't. In the heat of a 5 man run this is without a doubt the most frustrating thing I've seen multiboxing.

2. Hunter DPS. Do they swing a lot? I cannot get them over 11k on Azshara's lackeys in Well of Eternity. They seem to do ok killing the puppet hands and killing in general but it seems too slow. Shouldn't it be more like 15k? None of them are under 370 ilvl. I really don't get it.

Here is my spammable:



/castsequence reset=target Hunter's Mark, null
/castsequence reset=target/15 Serpent Sting, null
/castsequence Steady Shot,Steady Shot,Arcane Shot
/cast !Aimed Shot
/cast !Chimera Shot
/cast !Focus Fire
/cast !Kill Shot
/cast !Rapid Fire


3. I can drop the hunters, which I've done routinely (dropped one and added warrior back in the comp) but End Time has these retarded encounters that make a group comp impossible to run with. Thinking my melee CTM here against Sylvannas.

Anyone have any input here? Should I ditch the shaman for a holy paladin? I can also replace all 3 hunters with a lock, a mage and a priest. Would it be preferable to what I have now?

[JohnGabriel]

You dont need a Face Target macro, just Interact with Target. You can two-step it I believe as well so have first step Interact with Target to have them face the mob and 2nd step takes a step back.

I think your problem is a gear problem, once your dps is doing 20k+ you can get through them. I run those dungeons on my team and seldom wipe at all anymore, they are all around 383+ iLevel.

[MadMilitia]

You dont need a Face Target macro, just Interact with Target. You can two-step it I believe as well so have first step Interact with Target to have them face the mob and 2nd step takes a step back.

I think your problem is a gear problem, once your dps is doing 20k+ you can get through them. I run those dungeons on my team and seldom wipe at all anymore, they are all around 383+ iLevel.

Hunters still have the IWT problem where at 180 angle they will not turn to face the target while in combat. I've yet to see a better workaround for this than the focus lens.

It's odd they do 20k dps on the raid dummy but absolute crap on some other fights. I think I know why though. Fights like Peroth'Arn mean sometimes you pull them too close and they switch from range to melee, severely reducing their dps. Probably the same is true on Queen when a puppet gets close which they often do in melee terms.

That's one of the best things about casters. Even if something gets in melee range they will cast. Not so with hunters unfortunately.

[EaTCarbS]

For some reason your macros look terrible to me. I'm not currently at the home or I would provide a more insightful reply. Ill probably add one later.

Have you considered survival? My hunter did 9-12k in 85 quest greens.

[MadMilitia]

The macro I wouldn't suspect to be the problem but linked it just in case.

The primary cause I suspect is due to the fight mechanics negating the hunter range attacks. If something gets next to your hunters for a long period of time it may as well be gg.

The macro itself has been tested on the raid dummy with all the hunters putting out 20kdps on the dummy, totems provided.


Now that I think on it, I used to use a disengage -> IWT setup on the fly so they'd disengage from melee and reset to proper range distance. I don't use it in 5 mans for obvious reasons.

[traedoril]

Check this forum out I posted how to beat each boss and each HoT instance.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/45851-Cata-End-Times-Heroic?highlight=End-Time

[MadMilitia]

Check this forum out I posted how to beat each boss and each HoT instance.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/45851-Cata-End-Times-Heroic?highlight=End-Time


Hey, thanks for that.

I should be clear that I've already cleared all 3 of them boxing so it's doable. It just seems this comp has a rough time of it. Well, all my preferable comps anyways =(


My own strat for doing Baine for instance is much different than most other multiboxers. I pull him to the middle left platform (if facing him at the start on the far platform). I then position all my range all around so I can 1) easily see totems and 2) easily handle healing one toon instead of 4. I keep my shaman right next to the tank at all times just for jesus totem.

Where I run into problems ultimately is the positioning of my hunters which is far more difficult than it seems from the perspective of a mage/lock team. Reason being you cannot just IWT to face the target. It gets messy after that. Hence why I prefer a surround rather than a cluster.

[MadMilitia]

Crap... I just had an epiphany..

I could change the IWT FTL assist macro to a IWT / 'follow me' hybrid. Then change the macro startups to something like:


/focus [harm, exists]
/castsequence [@focus] reset=target Hunter's Mark, null
/castsequence [@focus] reset=target/15 Serpent Sting, null
/castsequence [@focus] Steady Shot,Steady Shot,Arcane Shot
/cast [@focus]!Aimed Shot
/cast [@focus]!Chimera Shot
/cast [@focus]!Focus Fire
/cast [@focus]!Kill Shot
/cast [@focus]!Rapid Fire






I believe that will set the focus in the right condition and then only direct its attacks against that target even if you issued a follow me followed by a IWT press.


No game up yet to test it. Definitely over the default char limit so will need an addon in game or isboxer addition.

[EaTCarbS]

Do you have movement keys that only broadcast to your alts? I find them invaluable.

[MadMilitia]

Do you have movement keys that only broadcast to your alts? I find them invaluable.


I'm left handed so no. I don't have the keys available on the right side of the keyboard to pull that off.

What I have is an alt + arrow key, with arrow key being default for the jamba master.

It works sometimes but this keyboard has LONG modifier keys. Meaning the time it takes to register them from a full click can be a bad thing. This is really what sets the G510 apart from the Razer Lycossa. It's just not as geared towards real gamers the same way. Unfortunately, the Lycossa's button texture was not made for gamers either. So yeah. I'll settle on the G510 for now as changing my input hardware again is just asking for hard-wired frustration.

[JohnGabriel]

I'm left handed so no. I don't have the keys available on the right side of the keyboard to pull that off.

What I have is an alt + arrow key, with arrow key being default for the jamba master.

It works sometimes but this keyboard has LONG modifier keys. Meaning the time it takes to register them from a full click can be a bad thing. This is really what sets the G510 apart from the Razer Lycossa. It's just not as geared towards real gamers the same way. Unfortunately, the Lycossa's button texture was not made for gamers either. So yeah. I'll settle on the G510 for now as changing my input hardware again is just asking for hard-wired frustration.

Have you tried a gaming keypad instead of a gaming keyboard? It might be better suited for a left handed person.

[MadMilitia]

I have the G13 laying around here somewhere..

Thing is, when you've played (and worked) all your life left handed on a right-handed keyboard you become accustomed to having that additional space around the arrow keys.

When I try to use the G13 it feels cramped.

I would love to have something a hybrid like the arrow keys to the right, but the G keys to the right most spot of that instead of the number pad. THAT would be awesome.

[Apatheist]

I'm left handed so no.

Just a suggestion, but try binding a modifier key to on of your mouses thumb buttons (ALT or CTRL). Then set the movement keys on your alts to ALT+W/A/S/D (or create a keymap in ISBoxer to send said hotkey to all other). That way, you don't have to take your hand off the mouse. When you want to move your alts, hold the thumb button and WASD normally.

I use this method for all my movement, jumping, etc.

[MadMilitia]

Just a suggestion, but try binding a modifier key to on of your mouses thumb buttons (ALT or CTRL). Then set the movement keys on your alts to ALT+W/A/S/D (or create a keymap in ISBoxer to send said hotkey to all other). That way, you don't have to take your hand off the mouse. When you want to move your alts, hold the thumb button and WASD normally.

I use this method for all my movement, jumping, etc.

Thanks!

I made a decision just like this last night. I have the death adder lefty version. So I used mouse 4 + alt to move them left, mouse 5 + alt to move them right, end to move them backwards and home to move them forwards.

Works real well on echo of Tyrande. Only issue now is having a 'other melee' setup for quick movement. Thinking Murozond here.

End Time just blows for multiboxing.

[Ualaa]

You can use any key or button as a modifier, the same as ALT, CTRL or SHIFT.
See: http://isboxer.com/index.php/guides/43-using-any-button-as-modifier-key

[MadMilitia]

You can use any key or button as a modifier, the same as ALT, CTRL or SHIFT.
See: http://isboxer.com/index.php/guides/43-using-any-button-as-modifier-key

Oh nice! Didn't know that.

That would mean doing what Apatheist stated. Just using a mouse button as a modifier. Not sure if that's really any better than the alternative I mentioned though.

Worst yet is the brain rewiring. I still have nightmares of trying to adjust to a right-handed mouse.

[MadMilitia]

Ualaa,

I gave that a go but the same problem with drift in that one happens in all the others.

Basically, if I let my finger off the modifier at any point before the movement key, my characters will continue moving until I press that modifier again and repeat the same keystroke to trigger the in-game 'on release' notification.

Incredibly annoying in high paced fights. I'm still looking for movement alternatives.

Is there a way you can eliminate the aforementioned drift using this method?

[MadMilitia]

I've given up on modifiers and now use the arrow keys as designated for range move.

I found it pretty instrumental in beating the well of eternity final encounter. You don't want to be right on top of Varo'Then when moving (especially with hunters in your box party) as his spike AE is retarded.

What I do is keep them away from my tank and when fel storm starts just strafe along left (not towards the well, you can get trapped) while walking Vaor'then towards them but not too close. Then just eat the one AE he will do once they get close, reset their facing and then keep away again. Repeat for the second fel storm and then bloodlust/AE the crap out of Varo'Then and the suppressors on Tyrande.

I think that was the cleanest well run I've had boxing so far. It still sucked hard on Queen. I don't know but my DPS seems to hit a brick wall on that fight. 5 wipes and of those, 4 had all my dps in the sub 11k range. When I did finally take it, 2 of my dps were over 15k. Food for thought. Not sure how much of that is luck.

Only one that I cannot handle at this point is Sylvannas. I'll figure her out eventually.

[Apatheist]

Oh nice! Didn't know that.

That would mean doing what Apatheist stated. Just using a mouse button as a modifier. Not sure if that's really any better than the alternative I mentioned though.

Worst yet is the brain rewiring. I still have nightmares of trying to adjust to a right-handed mouse.

The advantage of doing it this way is that it opens an entire set of keybinds for every mouse button you have available. I use a Naga mouse with mod keys on buttons 1 through 6. Meaning all the easy to access keys (1-6, F1-F4, Q-R, A-F, Z-V, space, tab, tilde) all have 6 functions each depending which mouse button I use them with. I don't even use the rest of my keyboard anymore and I never need to take my hand off the comfortable WSAD pad.

It takes a bit of getting used to, but once you get to the point where you're familiar enough not to have to think about it, it increases your reaction time quite a lot. Also removes the necessity for awkward keystrokes (SHIFT+Alt+X, etc).

[MadMilitia]

The advantage of doing it this way is that it opens an entire set of keybinds for every mouse button you have available. I use a Naga mouse with mod keys on buttons 1 through 6. Meaning all the easy to access keys (1-6, F1-F4, Q-R, A-F, Z-V, space, tab, tilde) all have 6 functions each depending which mouse button I use them with. I don't even use the rest of my keyboard anymore and I never need to take my hand off the comfortable WSAD pad.

It takes a bit of getting used to, but once you get to the point where you're familiar enough not to have to think about it, it increases your reaction time quite a lot. Also removes the necessity for awkward keystrokes (SHIFT+Alt+X, etc).


The disadvantage seems to be if you derp the modifier release before the movement key release, your toons will continue to move in the direction they were going.

Maybe this is my razer mouse + G510 issue, but its there.

If I use alt instead of mouse 4 they don't do it. So I can only surmise this is because of a hardware conflict.

[Ualaa]

I've not used the method, beyond testing that it worked...
ie., use a button/key as a hotkey to disable an entire Key Map and enable a different Key Map, while the key is held.

You could do it as a toggle.
Still two steps, but not enable/disable on press or release.

Enable it, do your alternate stuff.
Then disable it.

Not really sure on how well that will work, but its an option to try.





My roommate is left handed as well.
He uses the arrow keys (right hand) for the main to move alone, interchangeably with the right/left button pressing on the mouse (left hand).
The slaves are on follow.
With nothing for slave independent movement.
But does have the Spread Out key.
And has Down Arrow (to everyone), in one of his keys... specifically to stop run-off-IWT-Melees from going too far.

You can (assuming you're using IS Boxer)...
Create a bunch of Click Bars.
Make the button around 40x40 (pixels), which is close to the size of a Warcraft button in game.
Make it transparent and place it over a button.
Or give it a black/white color (background) and the revese (for contrast) as text with a very short abbreviation.
Set the Click Bar to Target: Current Window.
But drag the desired mapped key onto it (in the Toolkit, on the Clickbar interface).
In game, you'll need to open the GUI interface, and on the Clickbar tab, Show All.... position them and hide the ones you don't want.
Thereafter, you can mouse click to do things.
Possibly have Toon A moves left, Toon B moves right, or whatever.... when this button is clicked.
Might need to use Hold Keystroke while Hotkey is Held; not sure on the interaction of that with a clickbar as I don't use those often in my setup.
But that's another direction to investigate.

[MadMilitia]

Ualaa,

That doesn't solve my problem of drift between the controllers.

The problem is if I release the modifier (mouse4) before I release the arrow key, the arrow key is still pressed in the slave windows.

PS: I do use isboxer.
Mouse: Death Adder 3.5G left handed version
Keyboard: Logitech G510

Another odd problem has come up which I'll look into for another thread.

Link: http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/47004-Mouse-software-installed-repeat-now-abysmally-slow?p=359669#post359669

[Ualaa]

If modifiers for movement aren't working for you...




As a right handed player...

I have my right hand on the mouse.
And my left hand accesses:
1 to 5
Tab to T
A to G
Z to V



As a left handed player...

Could you not have your left hand on the mouse.
And your right hand accesses the opposite keys, but the same number of keybinds?
8 to =
Y to ]
H to ;
N to /




I have WASD not set as mapped keys.
Which means they apply to the main/active window only.

If you had the arrow keys, not set as mapped keys.
They would also then apply only to your main/active window.

When I need the slaves to move independently...
I take my hand off of the mouse, and use the arrow keys, which are bound to slave independent movement.
You could do the exact reverse, and use WASD for the slave movement.

From the home row, there are as many keys accessible on the left or right side of the keyboard.
And they're as easily/hard to reach with either hand.

[MadMilitia]

Ualaa,

That's not a bad suggestion. I am not sure why I need the mouse in my hand but I suppose the reason is I fat finger the buttons if I'm trying to do something quickly and I'm not accustomed to the layout.

Sending my slaves off to stand in fire for example. Could happen!

[traedoril]

I am missing something here I think. Why can't a left handed player use the normal key binds we use? Instead of having your right hand on the right side of the keyboard you could have your right hand on the left side of the keyboard.

[MadMilitia]

I am missing something here I think. Why can't a left handed player use the normal key binds we use? Instead of having your right hand on the right side of the keyboard you could have your right hand on the left side of the keyboard.


I don't usually use a click. Just the mouse wheel for pretty much everything I do now.

I finally got Sylvannas today. Good times!

I figured out a few things in my setup.

For starters, I canned the razer Death Adder and now use the Evoluent left handed mouse again. This thing is seriously underrated.

The Evoluent has 6 programmable buttons and then another 3 combinations that can be used with mouse6 and any combination of 1,2,3.

I put strafe left and strafe right on the 5 and 6 buttons, with alt+5 and alt+6 star and collapse star functions. This way I can bring them together quickly and spread them out quickly to avoid AEs.

Next I put an alt+mousewheel down function in to make it so nothing attacks with CTM. This way I hop on my arms warrior, alt+mousewheel to get off heals, warrior dps and hunter dps. Result is dead as fried chicken Sylvannas.

I'm still working out some kinks in my setup but so far its looking nice. This was the cleanest end time run I've had. One wipe on Murozond and that's only because I missed the 'oh shit' button on my tank. I need to put that in the click bar for sure.

[MadMilitia]

Another update:

Baine is still my most difficult fight. Sylvannas is no longer difficult. Killed her again this time on 2 attempts. Took me 7 on Baine ><. I one shot Murozond again.

This fight is ugly, ugly ugly for range/melee CTM setups. You have to remember to not use CTM when he pulvarizes and even then you have to be ready to move everyone. I eventually got it down but not without a death. In short, he blows.

[MadMilitia]

Sylvannas making a comeback at pissing me off tonight.

90k Sacrifice on one of my hunters..

Dropped Entire Well of Eternity run without a single death. End Time is still reigning champ of shit. I never, ever seem to get Jaina.

[candlebox]

Razer Naga. 12 buttons on left side, 4 buttons on top.

Win

Also: You can have them keyboard or numlock numbers. just by flipping a switch at the bottom of the mouse

[traedoril]

Razer Naga. 12 buttons on left side, 4 buttons on top.

Win

Also: You can have them keyboard or numlock numbers. just by flipping a switch at the bottom of the mouse

Considering he is left handed he would have to hit the buttons with his pinky.

[candlebox]

people paint with their feet just sayn

[MadMilitia]

people paint with their feet just sayn

No thanks.

I paint with my left hand and cannot imagine how badly it'd suck to retrain my brain to paint with my feet.

The retraining bit is the hardest part of it all. Throw in peer pressure and viola, quit material.

The naga would be ok if it were 1) bigger buttons for a big hand and 2) left handed to begin with.

The evoluent rocks face.

[candlebox]

it took me a while to figure it out, and i wont lie i still miss a lower button now and then.

But, my pvp skills are a million times better now. Less thinking with my brain using one hand.