Best way to install Win 7; Clean, or XP to 7 upgrade?

[Grail]

Hi all,

Back in January, i used my 3-pack Windows Home Premium 7 upgrade kit to do a clean install on a WD 640 GB hard drive. I called MicroSoft and explained I had several retail versions of Windows XP but wanted to install 7 on a new hard drive. They couldn't have been more friendly and helpful. I didn't even have to go to Tech Support. The fellow in Pre-Sales simply gave me a key. This time around I couldn't reach Pre-Sales, and the tech people (two of them) couldn't have been ruder right from the get go, even before they knew what it was I wanted.

If I end up having to load XP on my Boot drive SSD (if it even supports XP?) and then try to upgrade from there, will there be any performance loss? I also could try to clone my platter drive with Windows 7 to the SSD with the included Norton Ghost software, but Samsung does say in the manual a clean install is best.

I am most concerned that there might be some sort of performance loss.

Thanks,

Grail

[Peli]

A clean install of Win7 on my SSD took me like 15 minutes (it was insane, and it was limited by the read speed of my optical drive). It'd take you longer than that to find the stupid SATA driver, a floppy disk, and a USB floppy drive in order to install XP on the SSD.

[MiRai]

Windows 7 is well aware of what an SSD is and how to install the OS onto it properly without an issue. Windows XP, on the other hand, doesn't know what an SSD is and will most likely install the OS improperly (unaligned) which will affect performance and, it will most likely default to defragmenting the drive unless you manually turn it off. Past that, I have no knowledge with using Windows XP and SSDs without consulting Google.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Ebay your upgrade disk or something and buy a full install. I think you can get Win7 Pro for under $100 now.

[johny_mnemonic]

You can clone the system OS without any problem if the only change is the SDD.

[d0z3rr]

There is no such thing as an XP to 7 upgrade. The upgrade does a clean install of Win7, it just attempts to assist with migration of user specific data. It is not the same as the XP to Vista upgrade.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

There is no such thing as an XP to 7 upgrade. The upgrade does a clean install of Win7, it just attempts to assist with migration of user specific data. It is not the same as the XP to Vista upgrade.

You do realize Vista did the same thing, right? We're getting far too deep into the weeds with regards to the original question.

[Grail]

Thanks Everyone,

Peli- I hear you. I hope I don't have to install XP first.

MiRai- I always appreciate your input. These are the things I am afraid of.

Ugmahedhurtz- I will tuck that advice away. Might come in useful. Still, despite the ebay possibility, the reason I liked the 3-pack Win 7 upgrade option is that
as I have three retail copies of Win XP, it meant that I was basically upgrading to three retail copies of Win 7. That is as long as I have those
original XP discs, I can install as many times as I want and unlike oem Win 7 discs, I can even install on a new computer down the road.

johny_mnemoic- Thanks for affirmation. The only things I am concerned about there is whether there would be performance loss over a clean install. Partly
because my Samsung 830s' manual declares "Samsung recommends that you do a fresh OS install to ensure an optimal operating environment
for your new SSD." So while I know it should work... I am concerned if it will be "optimal".

dOz3rr- I do understand. However, evidently something is evidently left behind that lets the Win 7 upgrade disc know that this was formally an XP disc and
therefore a legitimate upgrade attempt. This is what I am trying to bypass. MicroSoft has made it clear this is perfectly legal as long as retail XP
discs are in hand and not used concurrently.

So, while the consensus seems to be it is possible, I am thinking if I have to go this way I will attempt the clone. Anyone think Samsung's warning can be
taken with a grain of salt?

Thanks to all,

-Grail

[daviddoran]

What I do, for Windows 7 upgrade versions, is to install windows 7 twice on the same partition. The first time, don't enter a CD key, (it will be in trial mode for 30 days, but you won't need it that long.) Then, once that's installed, start over, and when you select which OS to upgrade, pick the OS you just installed.

Windows 7 when doing an upgrade install simply moves the old files into a "windows old" folder, and does a clean install.

I wish the windows upgrade installers worked like the Adobe Acrobat installers, and merely asked for the Key of an older version. Or at least to insert a disc to prove you have it. Having to install Any OS, just to allow an "upgrade" os to work with proper licensing is not a good way to treat paying customers. Frankly it's just easier to do it the illegal way...

[Grail]

Thanks daviddoran, that gives me some hope. I too wish the upgrade simply asked for an older Key. Those I have in hand. I would be more than willing to enter them. Still, I might need a moment to let my head wrap around what you are suggesting. Never heard of that one.

How about this idea though, can I make a system image using Win 7 on my platter drive and place that system image of a licensed Win 7 onto my SSD then just swap out the Mechanical drive and boot from the system image? Or is that image only good if used as some sort of restore, but incapable of being used as a functional OS?

Signed,

Inching toward Multi-Boxing

p.s. if I do what you are suggesting daviddoran, any idea if it will be recognized as a licensed copy? Does this take care of the 'verification'? Will I still be entering in the key from inside the Upgrade box? Or do I run some risk of running up a red flag one day? Like when they collect non-personal system information.

[daviddoran]

The aspect of upgrading windows, only looks for a previous installation of any version of windows, it doesn't matter if it's activated or not, as it has no way of verifying that kind of information. It sees C:\windows\system32 and such and says OK, I can install now. So the easiest OS to upgrade from, is merely an unactivated version of the same OS you are using. You can't switch between 32 and 64 bit, and you can't downgrade from Home Premium to Home, or Ultimate to Home Premium, etc, it always has to be the same or "greater" version. I have only done this with Vista, as I had purchased windows 7 ultimate upgrade versions, but with windows 7 I have OEM full retail versions, but the process should be the same.

Even if you do have to install XP first, it's not a big deal, and you don't have to worry about xp having no knowledge of how to utilize an SSD, as the xp files will get moved into a windows.old folder, and will no longer be bootable.

You can image to your heart's content as far as my experience tells me. I don't think a hard drive swap will flag windows to reactivate, I believe that's reserved for bigger things such as motherboard swaps.

Here's some more info

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/howtos/how_use_your_windows_7_upgrade_disk_fresh_pc

http://www.mydigitallife.info/clean-install-windows-7-with-upgrade-media-and-product-key-on-formatted-or-empty-blank-hard-drive/

[Bollwerk]

IMHO, do a clean install anytime you upgrade the OS.
In my 15+ years of doing computer support, this is almost always the best option.
Upgrading seems to have a high chance of causing annoying issues sooner or later.

Oh, and if you use an SSD for the OS, then you REALLY should do a clean install, for a number of reasons.

[Grail]

Thanks daviddoran, Thanks Bollwerk,

I do understand upgrading from XP to 7 would not be considered a "clean" install. Yet, is it also true that cloning or imaging really cannot be considered the same as a clean install? I think they would have us believe the connotation of cloning is that the clone is an exact copy, but in truth without knowing the technical realities would you say "Nothing beats the original"?

If I take the upgrade root I will follow the path, you daviddoran, laid out for me. I thank you. But I do have a clean install of Windows 7 on my WD 640 GB drive, I could simply create an image (as daviddoran seems to suggest could work fine) or a clone.

I trust you will not think I am dancing unnecessarily around the mulberry bush here, but as per Bollwerk's advice on a clean install, I am not sure that would also apply to Daviddoran's methodology of upgrading from 7 to 7 as opposed to upgrading from a different or previous version (and essentially a different product.)

If Bollwerk, you mean to say always use a retail or oem version of the OS, I am going to have to find another hundred dollars somewhere. And here I thought I had it covered.

I will look at the articles with interest.

Hey is it possible to five-box with one hand? Because this sling on my left arm it really slowing me down...

I think I am going to have to get one of those twenty button mice. ;)

Doh! That makes two hundred. So, not, happening.

Thanks,

-Grail

[daviddoran]

I'm pretty certain that when you do an "upgrade" install of windows 7, it basically is a clean install, and merely moves the prior contents of the drive to which you are installing to a folder labeled windows.old. It's not supposed to keep any programs or settings, that's what their migration tool is for, but you don't need to use that.

The only way you can do a true "clean" install would be to call microsoft and explain your situation like you did in the first post, and jump through their hoops, and possibly play CSR Roulette before you get results. Either that or just use one of the pirate methods. Its so sad to me that it's easier to steal software than it is to use it legitimately :(

[Ughmahedhurtz]

A clone image of a drive is a clone image of a drive. That is, it is an exact copy of what's on the drive at the time the clone was made. So, unless you changed hardware (HDD does not count as long as it is used in the same manner e.g.: didn't switch AHCI to RAID, etc.) then yes, a clone of a clean install will be identical to a clean install.

The caveats to the above are in cases where you changed the drive mode, changed the motherboard/controller or changed the mode your software backs up the drive image e.g.: sector-by-sector/RAW mode versus normal per-file mode.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I'm pretty certain that when you do an "upgrade" install of windows 7, it basically is a clean install, and merely moves the prior contents of the drive to which you are installing to a folder labeled windows.old. It's not supposed to keep any programs or settings, that's what their migration tool is for, but you don't need to use that.
For upgrades from WinXP, this is correct. In fact, Microsoft recommends backing up all your important stuff with Windows Easy Transfer first, then doing a clean install, then restoring them once Win7 is installed.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/help/upgrading-from-windows-xp-to-windows-7

For Vista, this still works but you can migrate certain apps and settings directly to Win7 during the upgrade. I probably wouldn't trust it without backing things up first, not because of any distrust of the Easy Transfer tool but simply because some apps really aren't designed to be easily portable. Roxio EZ-CD Creator and antivirus apps like McAfee or NOrton are prime examples.

[Grail]

Thanks daviddoran, Thanks Ughmahedhurtz,

Ok, I feel squared away there. I did some research on it and your answers were clearest. I think I will try the clone. Then if that doesn't work, and my hd is now half fried so it might not, I will try david's savy work around. I really don't want to have to play Russian Roulette with People I have given over $1000.00 to for legitimate copies of Windows, but the analogy was great.

I do believe one of the top problems with America today is in fact poor customer service. Manners should be mandatory.

I have to post now about a dying (?) psu in hardware. If either of you two have experience there please check it out.

With appreciation,

-Grail

[Bollwerk]

Some caveats about ghosting/cloning a W7 image:
1) If any hardware is different, this may cause some issues, depending on the hardware. If it's something minor like a video card, it's no big deal, but a motherboard might cause problems, as some hardware combos are picky about the order in which you install drivers.
2) If you clone an image from a HDD and put it on an SSD, you could run into serious performance issues due to partition alignment.

[Grail]

*sighs*

lol

Now I am reading about that.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

*sighs*

lol

Now I am reading about that.

Don't panic. :)

http://lifehacker.com/5837769/make-sure-your-partitions-are-correctly-aligned-for-optimal-solid-state-drive-performance

[Grail]

Ok, I feel better!

Thanks Ughmahedhurtz,

Thanks double for not letting my head hurt too much!

-Grail