I love...

[Mosg2]

...AV weekend!

...Despite the fact that Alliance has a 70%+ win rate against us poor Horde on my BG ><

32k honor so far since yesterday afternoon. I plan to quadruple that before the bonus honor goes away. I can sleep later :D

[butta]

Haha nice. I remember when I leveled my rogue up it was AV weekend. Got him 3 pieces of the old High Warlord stuff that weekend.

[Diamndzngunz]

Despite the fact that Alliance has a 70%+ win rate against us poor Horde on my BG

Hey you guys win and WSG EYTS, and AB most of the time. Give us AV.

[Mosg2]

Meh, I'd rather have a 50/50 ratio on all BG's than get hosed on honor for AV. What's the point of being able to farm up tokens easily if you're behind on honor? ><

I'm just stunned that they're going to make it even harder for Horde to win in 2.4. As it stands, we're already 2 minutes behind on a full rush for 4 bunker caps.

[Dor]

The one av i got to play on test pretty much panned out how I thought it would..Alliance loses due to even the stupid hordelets playing d since we all reach IB at the same time.

[Mosg2]

Gone though are the days of 10 minutes ~400 honor wins/losses once 2.4 hits. Le sigh.

[Stealthy]

70 AV's on the weekend - Horde won 3. Yep, the battle group for Mag sucks as horde.

At least playing 5 shammies is AV is a blast. Nothing clears a flag like 5 x Fire Eles.

Cheers,

Stealthy

[thinus]

I'm just stunned that they're going to make it even harder for Horde to win in 2.4. As it stands, we're already 2 minutes behind on a full rush for 4 bunker caps.

Rush? You are stuck in pre 2.3, there is no rush in AV anymore, not if you want to win. In our battle group Horde dominates AV, probably 90% win ratio. We usually have about half the Horde defending at IB. If it is crappy Alliance we repel the initial attack, take Snowfall and then just crush them at SP and then take the bunkers in their base.

If they are a bit stronger we will usually lose IB and then slow them down as much as possible at FW and in the base to give our offense time to cap bunkers and win it.

[Tamu]

The Shadowburn Horde own AV unless the Alliance have a preform. Oh, and Glaives do nasty things. ;(

[Mosg2]

I'm just stunned that they're going to make it even harder for Horde to win in 2.4. As it stands, we're already 2 minutes behind on a full rush for 4 bunker caps.

Rush? You are stuck in pre 2.3, there is no rush in AV anymore, not if you want to win. In our battle group Horde dominates AV, probably 90% win ratio. We usually have about half the Horde defending at IB. If it is crappy Alliance we repel the initial attack, take Snowfall and then just crush them at SP and then take the bunkers in their base.

If they are a bit stronger we will usually lose IB and then slow them down as much as possible at FW and in the base to give our offense time to cap bunkers and win it.
As my little pre-AV message goes to the battleground, the quickest way to get honor is to get the 4 bunker caps and hold them for a 10 minute win or loss.

I guess my problem is that Blizz has for some reason decided that if Horde wants to win 50% they have to play D, and if Alliance wants to win they have to play rush. The imbalances in the map and NPC's are just ridiculous--If I do a full rush with a Pally for aura I can cap AS about a minute after Alliance *at best*. Doing this requires a blocker to take the damage from the Dun Baldar bunkers, absolutely nobody defending AS, and at least one pet totem to tank while I cap.

There's just something inherently unfair in that--I understand that the same strat doesn't necessarily have to work for both sides, but the way the game is designed right now it heavily favors Alliance. Sure, you might win 90%+ games, but they're longer games AND if you keep it up the Alliance on your Battlegroup will inevitably boycott as they've done on many Battlegroups. I'm just saying that it should be fair any equitable :)

We want our Alliance to keep que'ing, so we don't go for the scorched earth strat. By doing so we're condemned to a 70%+ loss ratio. It's a lose lose I tell ya!

[Eteocles]

Behind on the rush my fat boomkin ass...by the time alliance pass SNOWFALL you guys're already over-fucking-running Stonehearth GY, Belinda's polymorping the nearest rogue(Which, 95% of the time, was me on my troll rogue) isn't shit vs Galv fearing the entire fucking raid slowing us down even more than we already are, then there's SH vs IB...Stonehearth has no less than 2.5 paths up to it; from belinda's place up the ramp between it and the far tower, or from stonehearth tower, or attacking from below the cliff/charging up the hill if not ranged. IB has -1-, 1.5 if you manage to Charge a respawning horde at the GY. Plus, you guys don't even have to get shot ONCE by an archer going to SH if you don't want to be. To get to IB, we have to go through that god-forsaken chokepoint which is 100% in range of IB tower's archer guards, which we have to, SURPRISE, stop and fucking kill, slowing us down MORE as well as splitting up the attacking forces.

Then let's compare FW to Stormpike...FW is wide open, on flat ground, in view range of the entrance cave + main town(Which has a 5inch wide gate to boot but that's another rant); SW is across a bridge which is easily camped and choked against alliance reinforcements from firstaid, and anyone coming from the cave takes fall damage from the jump down, not to mention the hills on YOUR side of the GY giving you perfect sniping points that are very often abused.

I'll stop here, and pose a question: What makes horde think 2.4 is going to make them lose? Pre-2.3 it was fairly even win/loss when horde didn't pull Vandaar without his warmasters(Which we couldn't ever do on Drek'thar), post-2.3 it started out mostly horde wins and now it seems to be evening out a bit...so again, what makes people think 2.4's gonna do shit? The terrain is uneven and always will be, the distance for alliance to their first destinations is longer than horde's(We meet up at our first GY rather than middle most of the time), I don't see what's gonna change it as it'll even out like it always has.

[Mosg2]

horde wins and

Erm, lemme start by saying this: On my battlegroup, we lose 70%+ of the time. It's basically 95%+ loss from 7 in the morning local (Hawaii standard) until about 6 in the evening when it "evens out" to just a 30% win rate. Maybe it's better on other battlegroups, but mine is *horrible*.

As to your points... It comes down to the fact that while you guys are pushed along basically a single path from Snowfall to Drek, at least you are *forced* to cap everything along the way. At least 50% of games on my battlegroup either IB or SH bunkers don't get capped or they get recapped because everyone leaves. That's honor right there.

We may be able to take SHGY before you guys get to Snowfall, BUT we're talking about the whole match, right? Alliance don't have to do jack shit to cap the FW aid station. You can rush right through to it and take virtually no damage getting there, whereas I lose half my health if I try and rush through the killing grounds in your base to get to the Aid Station... Lest we forget that there are 5 aggro elite NPC's right by that graveyard, making it virtually impossible to rush AS with less than 5-6 people. If there is a single Alliance playing D at the aid station it requires 10+ people to cap the f'ing thing.

The problem is that both sides can't use the same strategy: Horde could play D if they wanted to, and we'd win, but it'd be a 30+ minute game. It's easier to just go full offense and hope we get all four bunkers destroyed in a 10-15 minute game. Nobody wants to play D like that though because it's less honor per hour... So we're *forced* into playing a blitz offense, and sadly with the way your guys' base is set up and the map all together we will *always* be 2-3 minutes slower getting the aid station cap... When you're talking about an 11 minute game that's a significant advantage.

I have never seen a 10-15 minute game where we capped aid station before Alliance capped FW. Not ever, and I have 3 toons in full S1 and vindicator's and my 4 shammies who're on about 150k honor since they hit 70.

~~~

As to what's going to change? They're making it even more difficult for horde to rush AS while keeping Alliance at the same speed for a FW rush. That means that if we don't play D and go full O, we'll be getting less caps on average. That means these 300 honor losses on AV weekend are going to turn into 120 and 180 point losses because the only thing we could cap before Alliance kill Drek is IW and SH bunkers... Which is going to push Horde as a group to play D games. We're going back to 30-60 minute games where Horde chokes Alliance out at IBGY and turtles.

[Stealthy]

horde wins and

Erm, lemme start by saying this: On my battlegroup, we lose 70%+ of the time. It's basically 95%+ loss from 7 in the morning local (Hawaii standard) until about 6 in the evening when it "evens out" to just a 30% win rate. Maybe it's better on other battlegroups, but mine is *horrible*.

As to your points... It comes down to the fact that while you guys are pushed along basically a single path from Snowfall to Drek, at least you are *forced* to cap everything along the way. At least 50% of games on my battlegroup either IB or SH bunkers don't get capped or they get recapped because everyone leaves. That's honor right there.

We may be able to take SHGY before you guys get to Snowfall, BUT we're talking about the whole match, right? Alliance don't have to do jack shit to cap the FW aid station. You can rush right through to it and take virtually no damage getting there, whereas I lose half my health if I try and rush through the killing grounds in your base to get to the Aid Station... Lest we forget that there are 5 aggro elite NPC's right by that graveyard, making it virtually impossible to rush AS with less than 5-6 people. If there is a single Alliance playing D at the aid station it requires 10+ people to cap the f'ing thing.

The problem is that both sides can't use the same strategy: Horde could play D if they wanted to, and we'd win, but it'd be a 30+ minute game. It's easier to just go full offense and hope we get all four bunkers destroyed in a 10-15 minute game. Nobody wants to play D like that though because it's less honor per hour... So we're *forced* into playing a blitz offense, and sadly with the way your guys' base is set up and the map all together we will *always* be 2-3 minutes slower getting the aid station cap... When you're talking about an 11 minute game that's a significant advantage.

I have never seen a 10-15 minute game where we capped aid station before Alliance capped FW. Not ever, and I have 3 toons in full S1 and vindicator's and my 4 shammies who're on about 150k honor since they hit 70.

~~~

As to what's going to change? They're making it even more difficult for horde to rush AS while keeping Alliance at the same speed for a FW rush. That means that if we don't play D and go full O, we'll be getting less caps on average. That means these 300 honor losses on AV weekend are going to turn into 120 and 180 point losses because the only thing we could cap before Alliance kill Drek is IW and SH bunkers... Which is going to push Horde as a group to play D games. We're going back to 30-60 minute games where Horde chokes Alliance out at IBGY and turtles.

This man speaks the truth.

And Eteo, look at the stats I posted. 4% win ratio - and I'm on the same server as you! ;(

Cheers,

Stealthy

[lille]

In my BG group (shitty i admit :P ) alliance lose about 60% of the AV games, when horde reaches Balinda, im still in the field of strife, and i got 20% speed aura :(

[Eteocles]

I'd like to know what AVs you're in then Zyrex cuz most of the ones i join are losses...now how can both sides be losing? Are the Harpies rebelling? Did Korrak come back with his Winterax Trolls? :P Or maybe we're all bad luck for our teams boxer or not and cause losses...lol

This also includes Dark Iron and Gul'Dan's battlegroups both recent and less-than-recent...an alliance win is rare and all you see is bitching in the chat regardless lol

[Stealthy]

I'd like to know what AVs you're in then Zyrex cuz most of the ones i join are losses...now how can both sides be losing? Are the Harpies rebelling? Did Korrak come back with his Winterax Trolls? :P Or maybe we're all bad luck for our teams boxer or not and cause losses...lol

This also includes Dark Iron and Gul'Dan's battlegroups both recent and less-than-recent...an alliance win is rare and all you see is bitching in the chat regardless lol

Pug AV's I ran last weekend (AV weekend) cuz Im doing the hnour grind at the moment. I pretty much ran them back to back, only breaking for lunch, dailies and to earn gf rep. :P There were pug premades going on the weekend but I didnt join any of those.

Basically this would happen almost every match - Horde zerg Bal & 1st 2 bunkers. Fight up the road to SP GY, cap then go for AS and last 2 bunkers. Alliance would rush to Gal, cap 1st 2 towers, often go right past FW GY (flat open spaces FTL!) and cap AS and last 2 towers. Many times Alliance would kill Drek even before we'd cap the the last 2 bunkers. The rush game definitely favours Alliance, and the bowmen in the last 2 horde towers are useless. On the other hand my main's health will go into the red running accross the bridge and up to the northern bunker as I get peppered with arrows from bowmen in both bunkers.

Cheers,

Stealthy

[Eteocles]

I'll trade you games then cuz alliance ALWAYS caps Frostwolf in every game I play, and the ones they don't cap it due to defenders we all end up dying from campers at relief hut and being sent back to either snowfall(because they're still fighting/ninjaing IB) or all the way to AS because you bastards stole snowfall ad won't let us take IB, forcing us to turtle because not only are we all sent back without choice but you won't let us LEAVE either and gank anyone who tries to ride past without bothering anyone lol, even the late-joiners who're just trying to catch up to the rush(Who're still on galv) you all slow/snare/gank at Stonehearth(Which is already mid-cap at the same time galv's engaged), forcing them back onto Defense...blame yourselves :p

[Mosg2]

The part that kills me right now is that Alliance on my BG intentionally leave FW alone... So when all of your O dies they pop at FW and have to run through 30+ alliance to get back on O. Every single game, FW rush, then alliance cap East and West and then farm the people at FWGY for ~4 minutes unless Horde also has capped North and South DB Bunkers, in which case they'll multi-tank.

As an aside... I made about 100k honor this AV weekend and there were only two games where Horde got over 500 honor: Two ~560's. I've never ever seen one of the fabled 606 honor games on my current BG. Sigh.

Oh, and uh... AB was a wash last night. 50% win/loss ratio. Sigh. I hate 30 minute 1 token games. Running 4 toons sucks in pugs because you have to go O if you want to win, but nobody wants to defend. So, I'll merrilly run across the map capping everything and then having it all recapped behind me. When I play O the Alliance just leave that node alone and push everything else. Anyone have any tips for AB and WSG marks, other than "form a premade"?

[Eteocles]

I don't completely approve of this but it does happen; you can form a premade that isn't intent on winning, but on simply losing, letting the enemy 5cap and getting your mark in about 5mins at worst; they won't realize you're not capping till it's too late and therefore not be able to uncap anything to slow down and farm you. They'll see your matching realms and go "OH SHIT PREMADE" and hurry to cap...it's dirty and cheap but extremely effective and fast.

[Mosg2]

I don't completely approve of this but it does happen; you can form a premade that isn't intent on winning, but on simply losing, letting the enemy 5cap and getting your mark in about 5mins at worst; they won't realize you're not capping till it's too late and therefore not be able to uncap anything to slow down and farm you. They'll see your matching realms and go "OH SHIT PREMADE" and hurry to cap...it's dirty and cheap but extremely effective and fast....And it's bannable. Blizz just started taking account action against people who do this. Sigh. No quick way for marks at all anymore.

[BobGnarly]

Despite the fact that Alliance has a 70%+ win rate against us poor Horde on my BG

Hey you guys win and WSG EYTS, and AB most of the time. Give us AV.

This is true in our bg too (alliance almost always wins pug-vs-pug AV, horde wins most others). Given this, I wouldn't mind losing AV since it's just become a big honor grind anyway. However, lately the alliance have taken it upon themselves to defend SHB, IWB, balinda, etc. While this is perfectly within the spirit of this game, of course, it amounts to 0 honor horde games, which has resulted in many of us just not playing, which means longer Q times for alliance (which they are complaining about). Gee, I wonder why there aren't a slew of people queuing up to spend 15 mins for zero honor.

I just wish they'd fix all the damn bgs so that a) they all give approx the same amount of honor per time played, play the one you like most, and b) the difference between winning and losing wasn't so high to keep the losing teams motivated to play. It sucks to always lose and get shit for it, I'm here to tell you.

[Stealthy]

I'm hoping 2.4 will mean a lot more Horde defense in AV. Why? No diminishing returns on HK's...yeah honor farm FTW!!!! LoL

[MrLonghair]

Defense by the base yes since they're moving the starter cave all the way down the map? Yea

I have characters on both sides, I don't like it how 16 months passed of 90% hordelosses on 90% of the battlegroups, 2.3 arrived with the reinforcement mechanic and it quickly got fixes from blizzard to balance things. Ick