bot?i think so

[honeypot2011]

was in stormwind..doing a ui pic for another thread..when came across this 85 shaman..near fountain...was curious and went over..asked him what he was doing..he was jumping about..i thought he was maybe trying to do a wall jump glitch or something..
but got no answer and after watching him a while ..became clear hes on a path..and looks to me its some sort of anti afk..probly for ah or something..was too good to miss so i recorded it..you can see a short clip here on my stream..below the pic i took..

kind of ironic when we get called bots and here you go.. :)..now should i report it or not?..hmmm

http://i.imgur.com/KPbmY.jpg


http://www.twitch.tv/honeypot2011/b/309990902

[lans83]

I would have personally. It's all up to you tho. If we as boxers get ridiculed for 'botting' then people that get away with using these programs should not get away with it. Besides, wth would be the point in running a bot program like just to stay logged in the game now anyway. With so many servers and fewer players on WoW now, it's not like the old days where it took you hours in line just to connect to the server being stuck in que.

[Shodokan]

I would have personally. It's all up to you tho. If we as boxers get ridiculed for 'botting' then people that get away with using these programs should not get away with it. Besides, wth would be the point in running a bot program like just to stay logged in the game now anyway. With so many servers and fewer players on WoW now, it's not like the old days where it took you hours in line just to connect to the server being stuck in que.

Still like that on illidan at peak hours.

[eff-]

While I hate bots, Imagine having to wait 2 hours to play during new expansions and major patches. On Illidan I still get 300 queues randomly.. I can't really blame people for using an auto clicker (not nearly as bad as a bot) to avoid waiting hours to play a game you pay for.

[Peli]

Could have been an anti-afk bot waiting in a BG queue. I've had queues that randomly spike to 10 minutes for some reason...

[honeypot2011]

yes could have been waiting in queues for bg...ive tried a few bgs and the queues averaging 18 mins or more..on kilrogg ..that said,level 40 ish bgs..may not be so busy as the higher levels..
funny though i logged in last night..same place i logged out..and he came on again around 9pm uk time..and he was going round one of the trees in a circle..it was constant and he never disappeared and came back pvp enabled...i was there maybe 30 mins..and then left..so i do not know what it was up to..but there you go..each to there own..ohh i didnt report it..not sure where i stand on the grounds of that..have that feeling of what goes around comes around..
was just strange to come across it and it would seem its a regular thing ..anyway..there you go :)

[JohnGabriel]

Just simply report him when you are standing near him, the gamemasters can pop to your location and see for themselves.

If he is botting the GM will take care of it, and if he isn't botting there will be no harm done.

[lans83]

Just simply report him when you are standing near him, the gamemasters can pop to your location and see for themselves.

If he is botting the GM will take care of it, and if he isn't botting there will be no harm done.

^


It's also people like this is the reason why Ques are so bad.

[Apatheist]

It's also people like this is the reason why Ques are so bad.

That seems like poor reasoning to me. If he's set up a simple macro to take a step every now and then to avoid having to re-queue, logically there must have been a queue for him to want to avoid prior to his behavior. Also, I'd have to assume the number of people doing this is a tiny, tiny percentage. The queues are there because a lot of people play WoW.

Calling this boting seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

That seems like poor reasoning to me. If he's set up a simple macro to take a step every now and then to avoid having to re-queue, logically there must have been a queue for him to want to avoid prior to his behavior. Also, I'd have to assume the number of people doing this is a tiny, tiny percentage. The queues are there because a lot of people play WoW.

Calling this boting seems like a bit of a stretch to me.
This seems like poor reasoning to me. If he's set up any system that allows him to take action in-game without user-input, then by definition he is botting. There is no ambiguity here. Using software to defeat painful mechanics instead of providing feedback to Blizzard about said mechanics also prevents those feedback systems from working, which inconveniences other players doubly: first, by adding players to the queues that may end up unresponsive or, worse, join BGs and then remain AFK, which directly impacts the success of their team; second, by screwing with the queues by causing them to drop legitimate, active players in favor of the tireless bots (first come, first served).

Now, you can argue how many people do this as a percentage but the Law of Unintended Consequences is important to consider as it means the collateral damage from these activities is far greater than their raw participation rates imply.

[Apatheist]

definition he is botting..

I made two statements. The first statement was separate from the second one, and simply a semantic point about his reasoning behind the cause of WoW queues. I don't see how you could find my reasoning behind whether or not it's boting to be poor, since I didn't post any.

If we're going to be pedantic, it's still boting. I'll freely admit I have a mouse macro set up to spam click the area where the dungeon finder queue pops up, so I can go get a coffee while I'm waiting and not miss the queue. Also technically boting, but who really cares? Plenty of things players do, particularly multiboxers, crosses that line. However, if it's not giving him any advantage in PvP, hurting the economy, etc, it's a fairly trivial issue.

[Khatovar]

I'll freely admit I have a mouse macro set up to spam click the area where the dungeon finder queue pops up, so I can go get a coffee while I'm waiting and not miss the queue. Also technically boting, but who really cares? Plenty of things players do, particularly multiboxers, crosses that line.

Speak for yourself, don't group other multiboxers into it.

[Apps]

... any advantage in PvP, hurting the economy, etc, it's a fairly trivial issue.

Just using this one statement to make a broader one.

In the future, I would refrain from "feeling you must admit" such comments as your previous posts, and exposing yourself as a cheat. All be it we (this community), can be harsh to one another, or the non-boxies, we do remain fairly united when it comes to any sort of ToU rule breaking. I shouldn't need to remind, nor should it be any surprise that we (this community) are very often raged against, and treated very poorly due to our own play-style, purely out of ignorance. Some members still push to defend our play-style even though debating with an overly opinionated stubborn and WRONG individual, is futile.

Point is, we get enough guff. We don't condone adding extra that, all be it may seem trivial..., at some point someone will notice, and or know, then the whole community suffers a setback, again.

A mouse repeater macro program is against the ToU. Period. Now any butt-hurt solo player can find these forums and will read your comment, just confirm his assumptions that "plenty of things players do, particularly multiboxers, cross that line."

The fact is... we don't.



Who's to say a player who abuses mouse repeater macro programs doesn't also use it for something else? Who's to say that type of individual, who's "ok" with blending the line of black and white into a grey to serve their own selfish purposes, doesn't also use other programs? .. or buy and sell gold? or more. THAT is how it hurts. Its perception and reputation.

Our reputation means more than the ability to make a dungeon queue for a video game. And lets not forget its also out of respect to all the others who have posted to battle.net forums, contacted GMs, talked to Blizz employees on the phone or in email, to help push education into how we play, to keep our play-style from being overrun by ignorance. Hundreds of contacts made... I respect those people. WE respect those people.

Now, I'll put on my douche-bag hat and say this...

Are you really so ignorant to believe that even some boxers wouldn't copy this weblink and forward it onto a Blizz GM and report you? Not to mention when you click the "I AGREE" at the bottom of the ToU, then break the rules... it makes you a liar. Why would anyone believe what is said after that?


Botting is cheating, Multiboxing isn't, there's a difference.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I made two statements. The first statement was separate from the second one, and simply a semantic point about his reasoning behind the cause of WoW queues. I don't see how you could find my reasoning behind whether or not it's boting to be poor, since I didn't post any.

If we're going to be pedantic, it's still boting. I'll freely admit I have a mouse macro set up to spam click the area where the dungeon finder queue pops up, so I can go get a coffee while I'm waiting and not miss the queue. Also technically boting, but who really cares? Plenty of things players do, particularly multiboxers, crosses that line. However, if it's not giving him any advantage in PvP, hurting the economy, etc, it's a fairly trivial issue.
I can't figure out if you're being willfully obtuse or just having problems communicating. Your original point seemed to be that this wasn't that big of a deal because it was cheating to A) get around a lame mechanic (arguable) and/or B) very few people do it so it's not harmful (sophistry). Now you're admitting to cheating as a way to prove...what, exactly? At the risk of taking you slightly out of context, it should be obvious that WE care.

[honeypot2011]

Hi just to say..in hindsight and the arguments that have a arisen due to my post in the first place..i am sorry that i probably posted this in the first place :(..i was just at the right/wrong place at the time to see this..and in my own nieve eyes just posted it,seeing it as ironic of a perceived bot in my eyes..and its actions..and the view of us as multiboxers ..but i didnt expect it to develop into a raging discussion..or downwould spiral into one..and i apologise..for getting this started..it was just an observation..and i am a little embarrassed its become this :((..and as app above says..we get a enough stick as it is..and i hate to see multiboxers fighting among multiboxers..
But again everyone is allowed there own opinion..right or wrong..but.if i could delete this post i would..i feel like hiding in a corner somewhere..and sorry again..
in future..i'll probably think more before i post like this..hindsight is a blessing and a curse...lets make love not war..
anyway...just wanted to say..

EDIT: Sorry for the grammar too,probabaly should be a few fullstops in there too :)unless you can read it in one long breath :)

Have a habit of the ... thing between...words...and sentences...or so it seems..(a little rushed typing this and need to be elsewhere..ill re-edit sometime )

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Don't sweat it; it's not your fault that we're a passionate bunch around here. ;)

[F9thRet]

Only time I ever get caught Cheating, In real life that is, is if I'm like , riding my horse into town, and cross a neighbors field. Even then, I tell the sheriff, my name is Ughma Ed. Hurtz and I'm from out of town. I get a warning and go back to whatever it was I was doing.

Stephen

[Apatheist]

I can't figure out if you're being willfully obtuse or just having problems communicating. Your original point seemed to be that this wasn't that big of a deal because it was cheating to A) get around a lame mechanic (arguable) and/or B) very few people do it so it's not harmful (sophistry). Now you're admitting to cheating as a way to prove...what, exactly? At the risk of taking you slightly out of context, it should be obvious that WE care.

Please. Multiboxing pushes the line of automation and exploitation on a daily basis nobody seems to mind. Multiple actions per keystroke and macro strings are both against Blizzards ToS and are standard features of all decent boxing software.

The selective outrage over an utterly trivial issue is seems a little bit hypocritical to me. If it's not impacting anyone, have at it.


i am sorry that i probably posted this in the first place

No need to be sorry. Arguments are good for you (plus it stops me from falling asleep at work).

[Khatovar]

Please. Multiboxing pushes the line of automation and exploitation on a daily basis nobody seems to mind. Multiple actions per keystroke and macro strings are both against Blizzards ToS and are standard features of all decent boxing software.

Where is this automation and exploitation that you claim that we all use on a daily basis? Multiple actions per keystroke and macro strings are also standard features of most decent keyboards and mice, that doesn't mean they're acceptable to use or that we use them. And last I checked, WoW wasn't the only game on the planet. There are games out there that do allow such things.

[Apps]

Please. Multiboxing pushes the line of automation and exploitation on a daily basis nobody seems to mind.

Completely False statement.
People really should learn a little bit about coding / scripting before continuing to push uneducated nonsense.


Multiple actions per keystroke and macro strings are both against Blizzards ToS and are standard features of all decent boxing software.

Again, Completely False statement.
Not only does blizzard allow it, they provide a means to use it in game. Type /Macro in game to learn more about it.
Also, simply click on the link below to learn more about all the various ways you can use blizzards in game UI / macro system to make your gaming a lot more fun.
w (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wow+macro)ow_macro (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wow+macro)
Or as Khat pointed out...


The selective outrage over an utterly trivial issue is seems a little bit hypocritical to me.

And this comment is the reason why some individuals will likely never understand. Attempting to trivializing an issue, does not lessen the fact that its an issue.


If it's not impacting anyone, have at it.

Absurd statement. However indirect, all actions have an impact, regardless of being uneducated. Just reading these posts has an impact on people.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Please. Multiboxing pushes the line of automation and exploitation on a daily basis nobody seems to mind. Multiple actions per keystroke and macro strings are both against Blizzards ToS and are standard features of all decent boxing software.
I don't have the energy to counter-troll you. Google "multiboxing popsicle stick" for more info. You're welcome.

ITT: stark example of moral turpitude.

[thefunk]

He reminds me of Shodokan's arrogant little brother... ;)

Apatheist it sounds like you're either trolling or having a bad day. On this forum we prefer to prove factually that multiboxing is legal and not automation. This has been confirmed by blue posters after a huge amount of work from the community in ensuring we adhere to the EULA. We are also adults that don't partake in nonsensical debates that clearly offer no constructive ideas or improvements.

What you are doing is not helpful and downright disrespectful to this community.

edit: Can I please ask this thread gets locked so we can move on away from this drama thanks.

[Zub]

This made me think, can one set keydown and keyup macros in WoW itself? (via elaborate /macro maybe?)
I believe this is possible in ISBoxer, but always wondered how to do it in-game.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

This made me think, can one set keydown and keyup macros in WoW itself? (via elaborate /macro maybe?)
I believe this is possible in ISBoxer, but always wondered how to do it in-game.

I know you can change which event it keys on but I don't recall seeing an option to bind both events in-game.

[Ualaa]

You can do it with addons, there was an option in Macaroon.
Or at least it was reported as an option, at one point; I never used Macaroon myself.

Someone else mentioned Snowfall, but I believe that was changing an event to register on press instead of release.




I know of no option to modify press or release events, while in game.

[Apatheist]

I don't have the energy to counter-troll you. Google "multiboxing popsicle stick" for more info. You're welcome.

ITT: stark example of moral turpitude.


I don't understand why you find it necessary to resort to personal attacks rather than simply having a discussion? You disagree with me, I get it. Why be an asshole about it?

-Edit


Never mind. After I take a break for a while I forget what a lot of the WoW community is like.



Completely False statement.
People really should learn a little bit about coding / scripting before continuing to push uneducated nonsense.

It's not a false statement. Blizzard does not allow macro strings (they were intentionally removed by Blizzard a while ago). They also don't allow multiple actions per key press, outside of a select few instances via in-game macros.

The rule has always been one action per client, per key press. Go and ask a GM what the stance is on being able to keymap an entire rotation and interrupt sequence into a single button, predefined delays on actions, etc. Addons do this are banned.

Like I said, I'm not pointing it out because I have a problem with it. I was simply using it as an example of something that's generally considered acceptable, though it's technically breaking the rules.

[valkry]

I always thought that 'keydown = assist + dps' and 'keyrlease = interact with target' with ISboxer is close to multiple actions per keypress. Would have thought that they would have to be on seperate keypresses, attack on one, interact on the other.

[Khatovar]

The things we do with multiboxing :

Action on Keyup, Action on Keydown - No different than spamming a key twice as fast, which in my experience is a detriment to DPS and can be just as easily duplicated by using additional steps in a keymap. But if you really want to do it in the default interface it's pretty simple to do with all of 2 macros -


/castsequence reset=4 Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Lifebloom, Nourish, Lifebloom, Regrowth
/console ActionButtonUseKeyDown 0
/swapactionbar 1 2


/castsequence reset=4 Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Lifebloom, Nourish, Lifebloom, Regrowth
/console ActionButtonUseKeyDown 1
/swapactionbar 1 2

Simple cast sequence, a simple command to toggle the "Cast Action keybinds on key down" option off and a simple action bar swap to change it to a mirror macro that turns it on again.

It doesn't even need to be the same macro -


/castsequence reset=4 Rejuvenation, Nourish, Regrowth
/console ActionButtonUseKeyDown 0
/swapactionbar 1 2


/cast Lifebloom
/console ActionButtonUseKeyDown 1
/swapactionbar 1 2

Castsequence used on keydown, Lifebloom used on key up.



Multiple Steps in a Key - easily achieved in game


/castsequence Spell, Ability, Debuff, Another Spell
/swapactionbar 1 2


/cast Proc
/swapactionbar 1 2

First press uses the cast sequence and swaps the action bar to the next page. Second press casts the proc and swaps the action bar pages back.


Multiple Keys Sent Via One Keypress IE Popsicle Stick method - all keys are sent simultaneously, not in a successive order. The game decides what goes off. Can also be achieved via the default game with /click either stacked or added to a standard macro -


/click ActionButton1
/click ActionButton2
/click ActionButton3


/castsequence Spell, Ability, Debuff, Another Spell
/click ActionButton 3

And for things like IWT + DPS like Valkry mentions {I am another manual user} it's nothing you can't do manually by simply putting your spam key on 1 and IWT on ` and resting your finger 1/10th of an inch over, or slapping on a keycap/penny/eraser/stick to tie two keys together.


I don't see these predefined delayed actions you mention being used or advocated anywhere here. I do, however, see people preventing certain keys from going to certain windows for round robin purposes, essentially turning off broadcasting of that key to that window. That is not a delayed action, nor is it automation. A delayed action would be you press a key once, window 1 immediately does something, 2 seconds later window 2 does something, 2 seconds after that, window 3 does something. That would be automation and is against the rules.

If you're referring to something like this (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/47049-Affliction-Macro?p=360334&viewfull=1#post360334), that macro is created directly in game. All it is doing is trying to trigger an on use spell off of a paper doll slot (http://www.wowpedia.org/Equipment_slots#Equip_slots_in_Macros). The 0 is for the old ammo slot and it can just as easily be any slot in the paper doll, including things that don't have on use effects, like your shirt, tabard or legs, or it can be something that does have an on use effect like glove tinkers or trinkets if you want to make use of their timers to help force a cast sequence into cooldown.

Or you can simply forgo that and build the "timing" into your macro with spells like he does in the first part of his multistep for CotE, BoD and Corruption.


There is nothing wrong with duplicating actions available in game externally. It's a matter of ease of configuration. If ISBoxer and HotKeyNet and everything like that disappeared tomorrow leaving us nothing but straight broadcasting like we had with Keyclone, we'd still be able to do the same things in the game. It would just look messier and probably only mean more people would be keeping track of everything in their setup via spreadsheets.


TLDR - Just because it looks like magic doesn't mean it is. There's no automation here, so don't try to claim there is to try to make a case for automation and breaking the rules. That itself falls under the No Tolerance Policy in the rules (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/1518-Community-Guidelines-Read-Before-Posting) for this community.

If some people out there are breaking the rules, they are breaking the rules on their own. Trying to throw it back on multiboxing is just flat out wrong because the vast majority of us here stay well within the rules. Blizzard gave us an inch by being so kind to us multiboxers and defending what we do nearly as much as we do. No one wants to see it taken away because someone wants to take a mile.



honeypot2011 - I'm sorry your thread devolved into this and I'm sorry I have to close it now. I was hoping this would be a discussion where people got a refresher course in the difference between botting and boxing, but instead it looks like something off the official forums.