I7 6 core

[thefunk]

Given most processors are dual or quad core at the moment, what are the downsides of getting the 6 core I7-3930k in terms of software limitations, if any? And hardware?

I'm looking at upgrading my current dual-core, and at the moment price isn't an issue but I want to ensure I'm buying something that will be compatible with parts for up to 2-3 years. To give you an idea, I bought a pentium 4 a few moons ago with RD ram, just before SSD RAM won that battle; for obvious reasons upgrades became extremely expensive once it was effectively discontinued as mass market technology. Thus a 512meg RD RAM stick which should have cost me £40 went for about £150. I'd like to avoid that situation!

[JackBurton]

Intel Ivy chips are coming out in a couple months. They are heard to be priced the same as today's chips so consider waiting.


The difficulty of software optimization is a further reason why adding more CPU cores doesn’t help much. Game developers have made progress in using multi-core systems, but the rate of advance has been slow. Games like (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)Rage (http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/99729-deconstructing-rage-what-went-wrong-and-how-to-fix-it) and Battlefield 3 — two high-profile titles that use multiple cores — both utilized new engines designed from the ground-up with multi-core scaling as a primary goal. (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)


-Lax
The way i7 cores work is 1,3,5,7 are physical (real) cores and 2,4,6,8 are logical (fake) cores. My understanding is that for optimal performance, each fake core should be paired up with its corresponding physical core. And you should never assign only a fake core.

With 5 WoW instances on my i7, here is what I set mine to:
Slot 1: 1,2
Slot 2: 3,4
Slot 3: 5,6
Slot 4: 7,8
Slot 5: 5,7 (this one is assigned 2 physical cores)

This has served me well and is what I recommend to other i7 users. Enjoy (http://isboxer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1090)

[thefunk]

Can I use all 6/12 cores with ISBoxer?

The more I read, the more I see the 6 core as unnecessary, and 2700k largely suitable enough for my needs.

[JackBurton]

Recommended System Specifications (http://isboxer.com/wiki/Multiboxing) As a general rule of thumb for multiboxing 3D games on one PC, you want about one CPU core and at least 1GB of RAM per game instance, and a middle to high grade video card with at least 512MB of RAM on it.
Approximate recommendations

2 instances: 2 CPU Cores, 2GB RAM, 512MB video card
3 instances: 2-4 CPU cores, 3GB RAM, 512MB video card
4 instances: 3-4 CPU cores, 4GB RAM, 512MB video card
5 instances: 4-6 CPU cores, 5GB RAM, 512MB video card
6 instances: 4-6 CPU cores, 6GB RAM, 512MB video card

Note: Some Intel chips, such as the i7, will list having more CPU cores (logically) than they physically have. These extra CPU cores do not count as part of our recommendations as they cannot fully power a game instance and must be paired with a physical core (See i7 CPU: Assigning Separate Cores to Different Clients (http://isboxer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1090)).
See CPU Management (http://isboxer.com/wiki/CPU_Management) for more information on this topic.

[Ualaa]

If you're going to be 5-boxing tops...
I wouldn't even consider the 3930.

If you were planning on 10-boxing, on a single system.
Or were doing other things, in addition to more than 5-boxing...
Or just like to have the top system and best possible performance...
The 3930 starts to look better.

Without running much else, the i5 2500K is a decent processor; it overclocks well too.
The i7 2600K is only $100 more, give or take, and would be my recommendation to the "average" boxer.
The hyper-threading becomes more valuable as you add additional clients.
And if you'll be streaming, encoding movies, or just doing a lot of multitasking... it becomes increasingly better than an i5.
Plus, for the cost difference ~$200 vs ~$300, it seems a no-brainer unless you're on a tight budget.

I'd personally go for more than a 512mb card.
My current 1GB card is fine for medium graphics on the main, and minimal (except view distance which is medium) on the slaves.
Depending on settings, you might want more than 1GB of video memory.

I don't use more than 6GB of ram.
And I five-box and stream, with 15-20 Firefox tabs open, my stream software, iTunes, and frequently Media Player too.
But ram is pretty cheap, so more is probably better than less.

[MiRai]

Can I use all 6/12 cores with ISBoxer?
Of course.


The more I read, the more I see the 6 core as unnecessary, and 2700k largely suitable enough for my needs.
A 6-core Intel machine is not necessary at all as shown in my Hardware Science thread.

[Bollwerk]

If you want to have ample breathing room on your proc, I'd recommend getting a CPU with as many threads/cores as 2x wow toons, if possible (i.e. 10+ threads for 5 toons). You may be fine with less, but it also depends on factors like what resolution you're running at, etc...
If I was building a PC now, I'd probably wait for the 6 core/12 thread Ivy Bridge, but the 2700K is fine for 5-boxing if you don't want to wait. I use a 2600K and it's pretty solid. Just make sure you get a CPU with hyperthreading (i.e. 4 cores/8 threads). When I upgraded from the 2500K to 2600K, it made a HUGE difference.
As for assigning cores to each window in ISBoxer, I just assign everything to everything and it seems to balance perfectly fine.

[thefunk]

Thanks.

How much of a pain in the bum is it to attach a CPU to the motherboard? Reason for asking, I can save ~£100 by getting everything separate but if I screw up inserting pins in motherboard/using thermal paste/screwing motherboard into case due to shaky hands, I'm going to get a little pissed off....

The safer option is to buy a hardware bundle, i.e. http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ShowSystem.asp?SystemID=1265

[MiRai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w6UZNeGgXU#t=1m41s

You can stop watching after 4 minutes if you're going to use an aftermarket cooler.

EDIT: Or this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3COOE1srOoo#t=3m15s

This shows an aftermarket cooler being installed. You might want to watch more
aftermarket cooler installation videos and see how others do it as well.

[thefunk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w6UZNeGgXU#t=1m41s

You can stop watching after 4 minutes if you're going to use an aftermarket cooler.

EDIT: Or this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3COOE1srOoo#t=3m15s

This shows an aftermarket cooler being installed. You might want to watch more
aftermarket cooler installation videos and see how others do it as well.

Funnily enough, I'm less worried about the aftermarket cooler - that wasn't so difficult to install once I knew how (and with thermal paste the second time!), but the pins for the CPU? That scares me ...

[jstanthr]

Funnily enough, I'm less worried about the aftermarket cooler - that wasn't so difficult to install once I knew how (and with thermal paste the second time!), but the pins for the CPU? That scares me ...


The pins aren't on the CPU anymore for intel and most amd, the pins are actually on the motherboard, as long as you dont cram your finger in the socket or something dumb like that, you won't have any issues. you just align the orientation pins, or knockouts whatever you want to call them, and the retention mechanism does the rest for you, on most newer boards, the clip is super tight, it might even feel like it's gonna break, it won't, unless you have the chip turned wrong, but you'll know pretty quick if the chip isn't seated properly.

[thefunk]

Right. I've just upgraded my system (~£800). Here are my amateur learnings

Old
Core2Duo
8meg ram
8500 Nvidia 250meg

New
I7 2600k
Z68 motherboard
16gig RAM
880 PSU
560TI overclocked EVGA

First, make sure your DVD drive is compatible with the new motherboard, otherwise you'll suddenly realise after 2 hours of installation that your lovely drivers on the lovely boxed DVD's are completely useless. Not only that, but Windows won't recognise your ethernet controller. This is where work laptops + usb stick + internet are handy.

Second, if you bought a fancy CPU cooler, don't install motherboard/graphics card/everything else, and then realise you need to take it all apart because you need to screw something on the back of the motherboard.

If there is a large thud as you install the stock CPU cooler, sweat and drink a shot of vodka.
If you get a headache, lie down for 30 minutes (it helped me)
If the children start screaming, close all doors
If the wife starts screaming, send her to bed
Don't sneeze over the brand new motherboard
Be organised, so you know which wire goes with which component. If said component doesn't fit, don't force it in and panic.
Be really glad that the new graphics card comes with an adapter for VGA/HDMI.

And finally, when you receive all these lovely components and freed up an evening of getting it ready, be glad you ordered a PSU with them and you didn't have to find a shop near work the next day to buy it overpriced.

By the way, I can't believe I managed to 5 box on my old system. Clean 60FPS makes WoW look absolutely great (bear in mind what i'm used to)

And thanks to everyone who helped and contributed to this site!

[thefunk]

The pins aren't on the CPU anymore for intel and most amd, the pins are actually on the motherboard, as long as you dont cram your finger in the socket or something dumb like that, you won't have any issues. you just align the orientation pins, or knockouts whatever you want to call them, and the retention mechanism does the rest for you, on most newer boards, the clip is super tight, it might even feel like it's gonna break, it won't, unless you have the chip turned wrong, but you'll know pretty quick if the chip isn't seated properly.

And thanks, I realised this when I nervously opened the box. It's not the most comforting thing to prize down the CPU metal handle...

[MiRai]

By the way, I can't believe I managed to 5 box on my old system. Clean 60FPS makes WoW look absolutely great (bear in mind what i'm used to)
That's exactly how I felt when I moved from a Q9550 system to an overclocked 2600K. ;)


First, make sure your DVD drive is compatible with the new motherboard, otherwise you'll suddenly realise after 2 hours of installation that your lovely drivers on the lovely boxed DVD's are completely useless. Not only that, but Windows won't recognise your ethernet controller. This is where work laptops + usb stick + internet are handy.
What was wrong with the DVD drive? And the Ethernet issue happens depending on which LAN chip the
motherboard uses onboard. Sometimes Windows 7 can use it's generic driver and sometimes it can't. /shrug

[Bollwerk]

RE: the DVD drive - Maybe he's talking about SATA vs IDE? Otherwise I can't see how a DVD drive wouldn't be compatible. As long as your motherboard has the correct connectors (everything is SATA now).

[thefunk]

That's exactly how I felt when I moved from a Q9550 system to an overclocked 2600K. ;)


What was wrong with the DVD drive? And the Ethernet issue happens depending on which LAN chip the
motherboard uses onboard. Sometimes Windows 7 can use it's generic driver and sometimes it can't. /shrug

Exactly that bollwerk, no IDE connectors on the z68 motherboard. I also got an m4 ssd but the case doesn't have a slot for it... it will have to hang loose somewhere. At least I saved some cash

The Windows drivers were not helpful which is why the usb stick came in handy

[Sajuuk]

Exactly that bollwerk, no IDE connectors on the z68 motherboard. I also got an m4 ssd but the case doesn't have a slot for it... it will have to hang loose somewhere.
You can always tape the drive down if it worries you. (Or velcro/glue/RUBBABANDS)

[lans83]

You can always tape the drive down if it worries you. (Or velcro/glue/RUBBABANDS)

Or he can order one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817997010

I've got two of them with SSDs on them in my case. But if you go with the method Sajuuk suggested, go with the rubber bands. The case I got has HDD mounts connected to rubber tubes to absorb vibrations, sadly these are not compatible with SSDs, so I had to buy these mounts. I didn't want to mount it to the bottom of the case where they designated SSD mounting, cause I wanted them closer to the intake fans for better cooling.

[thefunk]

Thanks some good ideas. It also helps if you actually plug a power lead into the SSD. As I've discovered after much "Why isn't it SHOWING the drive?!?!?!?"

Seriously it's like the epic Izzard sketch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C_HjWr3Nk

I'm almost disappointed I'm not getting 60 fps on 5 instances on ultra. From a price point of view. But from a playability it's AWESOME. Even spider solitaire is faster. I can't wait to try Morrowind on it ;)

[thefunk]

One more question - what's your average CPU temp when running 5 instances at good grafiks? I'm on 47 with the case open, which suggests I may need some better fans...

[Sajuuk]

One more question - what's your average CPU temp when running 5 instances at good grafiks? I'm on 47 with the case open, which suggests I may need some better fans...
A better question to ask is firstly: what is your ambient temperature? Secondly: What is your average CPU temp under load?