Upgrading PC for 8 x accounts

[jnorland]

I just added my 8th account last night and quickly realized I'm going to need to do some work to my PC to play affectively. I know that step one is fixing or replacing my SSD. A few months ago I started having some issues with it completely locking up the computer and then failing to reboot. To the point I had to pull the data, reformat and start over. I reverted back to my 2.0 TB Drive which I know is killing my performance. What I'm considering is completely replacing the SSD and possibly upgrading to a new SSD and or Video Card. I built this config about a year ago so it's a little dated and it was never top of the line. It does a pretty good job. I'm looking for suggestions on what SSD you recommend or any other systems upgrade recommendations that would significantly increase performance. I'm able to plug in the current SSD in as an external drive so I'm not 100% convinced, or even 10% convinced, I need a new drive but I'll take any excuse I can. It seems like I’m' running into major problems with the drivers from my G13 or the Logi Headset. After installing the drivers that is when the SSD would lock up. I'm considering using the old SSD for the game and the new one for the OS or vice versa. I've pulled the 2011 Toms' H reviews and can't seem to even find the top SSD to order or price. Here is my current configuration:

Windows 7 Professional x64
i7 920 2.66 Ghz; Overclocked to 4.0 Ghz
Corsair Hydro h50
Corsair Force F120 SSD (Tom’s Hardware Score 372) (Currently running 7200 Large HD due to Hardware issues with the SSD)
AMD XFX|HD-687A-ZNFC HD6870 R
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650-Watt
Patriot Viper Xtreme Series DDR3 12 GB (3 x 4 GB) PC3-16000 2000MHz
GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R (http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-Intel-ICH10R-Motherboard-GA-X58A-UD3R/dp/B0034CSTFY)

Toms Hardware overall performance #1, #2 & #3
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/ssd-charts-2011/AS-SSD-Overall-Total-Score,2792.html

#1 Micron RealSSD P300 100 GB, Marvel 88SS9174-BJP2, SATA 6 Gb/s
Great reviews but where is it? Can’t find it for purchase.

#2 Plextor M2P 128 GB, Marvell 88SS9174-BKK2, SATA 6 Gb/s
Amazon – $239.99
http://www.amazon.com/Plextor-PX-128M2P-128gb-Sataiii-6gb/dp/B005Z2BYH6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329465905&sr=8-1
Amazon - 256GB - $470
http://www.amazon.com/Plextor-PX-256M2P-256GB-SATA-III/dp/B005Z2BYMG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1329465905&sr=8-2

#3 Samsung SSD 830, 256 GB, SATA 6 Gb/s, SATA
Amazon - $375 http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-830-MZ-7PC256N-Internal-Laptop/dp/B005T3GPXY


All my settings are set on low and I generally don't have any issues. I know there are other settings I can do to increase performance but this is the easy solution for me right now.


I've read through MiRai's recent post and I'm considering a Video card upgrade based on that info, I just know that step 1 is fixing the SSD issue.

Thanks for any input.

[MiRai]

I know that step one is fixing or replacing my SSD. A few months ago I started having some issues with it completely locking up the computer and then failing to reboot.
That drive uses a SandForce controller which has had nothing but firmware issues.
You should look to see if Corsair's site has a firmware upgrade for you to fix the
issue.


I built this config about a year ago so it's a little datedand it was never top of the line.
Could it have been more than a year ago? Intel's i7 2500/2600 were out 13 months
ago and the i7 920 came out in like Q4 '08 and it hit it's EOL cycle almost 2 years
ago in early 2010. Unless it was in a pre-built system that was still hanging out in
stock, you would have had to look hard for an i7 920 chip a year back. 920's were
replaced with 930's and eventually 960's (if I'm remembering this correctly).

With that being said, I know Kicksome (member on this forum) 10 boxed using a
stock clocked i7 920 and said it became much smoother after his upgrade to GTX
580 and 24GB of RAM (from 12GB). He took a break from boxing months back so,
we can't ask him what settings he was running in game.

At the moment it's difficult to recommend a video card since the new AMD cards
just came out and the new nVidia cards in April are rumored to be super awesome
(and very expensive). Also, your motherboard doesn't have any PCIe 3.0 slots to
fully take advantage of the new cards; although, I'm not sure multiboxing World of
Warcraft would fully saturate PCIe 3.0.

That card in your system is only 1GB and 5 clients using DX11 can easily exceed
1GB, let alone, 10 clients on the same system. If you're running DX11 the obvious
suggestion would be to try DX9 and see if it improves.

Crucial M4 (want one), Samsung 830, Corsair Performance Pro (own one), and Intel
510 (own two) all get my vote for SSD.

[jnorland]

Could it have been more than a year ago? Intel's i7 2500/2600 were out 13 months
ago and the i7 920 came out in like Q4 '08

HA! Yes Sir, you are correct. I pulled the CPU from my old Dell for the build; it was my first venture into overclocking so I thought it would be best if I used the chip I had just in case I managed to fry the little bastard.

I went with your recommendation on the Crucial M4, the charts show it pretty much on par with the Samsung but its $60 cheaper. It's also twice the score of my old card and I'm sure way better than the HHD I'm using now. I also doubled the ram as you suggested. I decided to just go with what I already had in there since it's only 80 bucks right now. I think I'll just throw the old SSD into a laptop.

So now I'm up to the video card and based on what you wrote above I may wait until April. That being said I really don't want to change out my motherboard right now so I may either go with a videocard I can use, which I believe the 580 is PCI 2.0, and just replace my current card or I may get a replica of the one I have and try running it in crossfiremode. I've always wanted to try crossfire I just never have.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2012-vga-gpgpu/01-3DMark11-B-Performance,2932.html

Thanks again for the info. I'll start with this and then look at the video card options in the next month or two. Thanks again!

[MiRai]

So now I'm up to the video card and based on what you wrote above I may wait until April. That being said I really don't want to change out my motherboard right now so I may either go with a videocard I can use, which I believe the 580 is PCI 2.0, and just replace my current card or I may get a replica of the one I have and try running it in crossfiremode. I've always wanted to try crossfire I just never have.
PCIe 3.0 is backwards compatible with PCIe 2.0 and vice versa. If you changed out
your motherboard you'd be changing out your processor and ditching some of that RAM
(unless you went with an X79 chipset).

Also, there are numerous threads in this forum that state don't use SLI or Crossfire as
it provides nothing for multiboxing and will most likely hurt your performance. Don't
waste your time.

[jnorland]

I apologize up front for my lack of knowledge on the subject; I do realize that I'm just scratching the surface so I really do appreciate your input.

So after reading your last comments I did a little more research and I think I have a little better understanding. From what I’ve read here in the forums the best thing to do with multiple video cards is to split the games using ISboxer as SLI and Crossfire were intended to run one game very well and but will not improve the performance of multiple games. I only brought one monitor with me on this deployment so I don’t believe that would help me in this situation. My plan is to just upgrade to either a GTX 580 or an AMD Radeon HD 7950 . According to the charts (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2012-vga-gpgpu/01-3DMark11-B-Performance,2932.html) the 7950 is scoring higher and is about $80 cheaper for the OC version.

$449 Radeon HD 7950 3GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102962)

$470 Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 OC (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102963)

$549 GTX 580 3GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125399)

I’m always a little concerned about the first generation of a new system such as the PCIe 3.0. That being said saving $80 bucks for a product that appears to be performing better I thing is enough to make me bite the bullet. The reviews on Newegg have all been pretty good so far. If I’m still having some issues I may try splitting the games with the old card when I get back home and have all of my monitors.

[MiRai]

I apologize up front for my lack of knowledge on the subject; I do realize that I'm just scratching the surface so I really do appreciate your input.
It's all good. It's better to first ask rather than buying $1000 (or more) worth of
equipment and then come here and be told that what you bought isn't going to work as
expected. ;)


the best thing to do with multiple video cards is to split the games using ISboxer
Correct. Assuming your CPU isn't your bottleneck but, in your case I think you might be
pushing the limit with 10 clients on that 920 at stock speeds (maybe not at 4GHz).


My plan is to just upgrade to either a GTX 580 or an AMD Radeon HD 7950.
It's always my recommendation to choose a single video card solution with lots of
horsepower rather than fumbling around with multiple video cards and hoping you get
the performance you want. While splitting the load works just fine in World of Warcraft,
another game might not play so nice with multiple cards and that's why I always suggest
a single card (assuming a budget can handle a $500+ card).


According to the charts (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2012-vga-gpgpu/01-3DMark11-B-Performance,2932.html) the 7950 is scoring higher and is about $80 cheaper for the OC version.
I personally wouldn't use any synthetic benchmarks to judge a video card's in-game
performance as they kinda give you a theoretical number on horsepower for whichever
test it's doing. While anyone can say they get approximately a score of 7,000 on 3DMark,
that really doesn't translate to any FPS numbers you're going to see in a game.

It's kinda like looking at your new Ferrari and knowing that it can do 230MPH (according to
the piece of paper that the dealership gave you) but, on the street that really means
nothing because it's unlikely that you'll have enough road (and traffic conditions) to even
reach those speeds. Not exactly the best comparison, but... it's 2AM give me a break.


$449 Radeon HD 7950 3GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102962)

$470 Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 OC (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102963)

$549 GTX 580 3GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125399)

I’m always a little concerned about the first generation of a new system such as the PCIe 3.0. That being said saving $80 bucks for a product that appears to be performing better I thing is enough to make me bite the bullet. The reviews on Newegg have all been pretty good so far. If I’m still having some issues I may try splitting the games with the old card when I get back home and have all of my monitors.
Now, here's where this comes down to personal preference. The three cards you linked
above use an exhaust system that I'm not a fan of. Those cooling setups take the cool
outside air and dump the card's hot air back into your case. If you look at this EVGA GTX
580 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130655) you'll notice it uses a different cooling setup -- It blows the air out of your case
instead of sucking it in (AKA "EE" - External Exhaust). If you were actually considering the
older GTX 580 at $550 then I will point you towards the AMD 7970 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=100006662&isNodeId=1&Description=7970&x=0&y=0) which uses the same
"EE" cooling setup. I'm also personally not a fan of Sapphire because they did me (and an
entire group of people) wrong back years ago and if you were going to go with an AMD
card I would probably suggest an XFX, MSI, or ASUS (in no particular order).

A sample review -
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/01/25/asus_radeon_hd_7970_video_card_review/

[jnorland]

Awesome! Thanks for the info. And you are correct I would much rather ask the questions now and get a better product than figure out I wasted my time and money down the road. I hadn't considered the exhaust on the cards and that makes almost to much sense. The EE sounds like it will be the way to go. Looks like I could get the 7970 for around $570 which may be my first step in a whole new system. I always forget how easy it is to go down the rabit hole and want to upgrade everything. I think with the hard drive and ram upgrade I'm headed in the right direction. I may wait on the video card until I can start from scrath, I never really had a reason to make a my system better until I started boxing. But I'll take any excuse I can to a better PC. Thanks again for your help!

[MiRai]

Coming back to this late...


I may wait on the video card until I can start from scrath, I never really had a reason to make a my system better until I started boxing. But I'll take any excuse I can to a better PC. Thanks again for your help!

If you're willing to wait a bit more for an upgrade you may want to wait either for the launch of
the new nVidia cards in a few months or even wait until Intel's new CPUs launch in the summer
(hopefully). I'll be honest, this 2600K system of mine is a beast and it'll most likely be my system
until I can maybe get a dual-CPU system built (probably 2013).

[kaiverrettu]

SSD sux becouse you can't write/rewrite on it as many times as on a typical Hard Drive. Install system&wow to your SSD and other stuffs to non-SSD drive and it will last for longer.

Now im not sure if having another Hard Drive installed will deter your gaming performance( I doubt it but it requires electricity anyway so who knows). If that's the case, concider using an external, USB Hard Drive instead, for your non-boxing needs.

[MiRai]

SSD sux becouse you can't write/rewrite on it as many times as on a typical Hard Drive. Install system&wow to your SSD and other stuffs to non-SSD drive and it will last for longer.

Now im not sure if having another Hard Drive installed will deter your gaming performance( I doubt it but it requires electricity anyway so who knows). If that's the case, concider using an external, USB Hard Drive instead, for your non-boxing needs.
SSDs are becoming much more reliable today than they ever were in the past. My Intel 510's have
a "Minimum Useful Life" of 20GB/day for 5 years (that's considered normal usage). That's 36.5TB of
total data that I can write to this drive before it will explode.

So far, in almost a year (10 months), I've written 1.9TB of data to my OS SSD and that includes
numerous reinstalls of Windows 7. 1.9TB / 10Months = 190GB/Month. 190GB / 30Days = ~6.3GB/day.
My other Intel 510 was used as my gaming drive and it had about 900GB of Host Writes before I
moved my games off of it. That's 50% less usage than the OS drive. Could these drives fail sooner
than 36.5TB of Host Writes? Sure, but I've got a nice 3 year warranty with these Intel 510's. After
3 years if they still work that would be great, and if not I'll just buy the next super fast model SSD.
I should be able to save up enough money in 3 years if the drive needs replacing after that. ;)

[kaiverrettu]

F
SSDs are becoming much more reliable today than they ever were in the past. My Intel 510's have
a "Minimum Useful Life" of 20GB/day for 5 years (that's considered normal usage). That's 36.5TB of
total data that I can write to this drive before it will explode.

So far, in almost a year (10 months), I've written 1.9TB of data to my OS SSD and that includes
numerous reinstalls of Windows 7. 1.9TB / 10Months = 190GB/Month. 190GB / 30Days = ~6.3GB/day.
My other Intel 510 was used as my gaming drive and it had about 900GB of Host Writes before I
moved my games off of it. That's 50% less usage than the OS drive. Could these drives fail sooner
than 36.5TB of Host Writes? Sure, but I've got a nice 3 year warranty with these Intel 510's. After
3 years if they still work that would be great, and if not I'll just buy the next super fast model SSD.
I should be able to save up enough money in 3 years if the drive needs replacing after that. ;)

Fair enough. I just didn't want my computer to end up failing in the midst of a gaming performance without the opportunity to backup. So after I heard about the nightmares some people had with the SSD's here(and elsewhere) I decided to skip it, but if it's really that good for multiboxing I might end up buying one someday.

[MiRai]

Fair enough. I just didn't want my computer to end up failing in the midst of a gaming performance without the opportunity to backup. So after I heard about the nightmares some people had with the SSD's here(and elsewhere) I decided to skip it, but if it's really that good for multiboxing I might end up buying one someday.
Your point is valid, though. I wouldn't keep anything on an SSD that I wouldn't be comfortable losing.
Game installs? Operating system? Neither of those things are a big deal to me if they're lost because
everything can just be reinstalled. If I was going to use SSDs as any type of back up they would have
to be enterprise-level SSDs in a large RAID array. Unfortunately, I don't have that much money to spend
on that and 1TB, 2TB, or even 3TB hard drives aren't hard to come by these days at a much lower price.

[jnorland]

MiRai what do you think would be the best way to determine if my video card is my limiting factor or if it's my CPU? Again I have a i7 920 2.66 Ghz; Overclocked to 4.0 Ghz and the AMD HD6870. The new RAM is installed and the Crucial M4 is up and running with both the OS and WOW. Everything is running pretty good but it's still a bit sketchy when I get all the accounts up. I may try running them in DX9 as you suggested earlier but I'm considering one more upgrade. Not sure if watching task manager is enough to determine the CPU performance with all 8 games up and running. I’m guessing the 1G card is still my limiting factor but I’m wondering how much room I would gain before capping the CPU by upgrading.

I'm looking at either getting a new video card right now that will increase my performance as much as my CPU will allow (also step one in a new system down the road) or waiting until I can build a new system all together. The determining factor being how much room can I theoretically gain with the video card. I'll keep in mind that I'll never get the most out of the newer video card until I've upgraded the motherboard to PCIe 3.0.

[MiRai]

MiRai what do you think would be the best way to determine if my video card is my limiting factor or if it's my CPU?
GPU-Z (http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/) and Windows Task Manager. In GPU-Z check to see what your video RAM usage and load is at.
I believe with an ATI/AMD card you should be looking at Memory Usage (Dedicated).


I'll keep in mind that I'll never get the most out of the newer video card until I've upgraded the motherboard to PCIe 3.0.
I think maybe I put too much emphasis on PCIe 2.0/3.0 in my prior posts. Right now, with PCIe 2.0 we
cannot saturate all of the available lanes with data and PCIe 3.0 is currently overkill in a single card
setup. Reading this review (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/49646-amd-radeon-hd-7970-3gb-review-21.html), you'll see that an AMD 7970 was tested in both a PCIe 2.0 slot and a PCIe
3.0 slot. As you can see you won't actually be losing out on anything and you should be able to safely
upgrade your video card now if you wanted to get a new AMD model.

The only issue that may arise is when you're going to throw multiple 3.0 video cards at a system which
can only handle 2.0. From the article:


However there are a few caveats that should be mentioned. Even though a single HD 7970 may not
saturate a PCI-E 2.0 x16 slot, things could change drastically once two of these cards are installed into
a Z68 motherboard which uses a dual 8x setup for Crossfire and SLI. Things will likely get even more
complicated when AMD’s new dual GPU product is released in the first half of 2012. We’ll likely revisit
this topic throughout 2012 but for the time being, rest assured knowing that AMD’s HD 7970 is in no
way limited by current PCI-E certifications.

[jnorland]

Awesome, I'll pull up GPU-Z tonight and see what I get. I know we talked about the cards but I am really considering going for the 7950 and saving $80 to $100 bucks. I just dont' know if I'll use enough of the 7970 to pay for the upgrade.

This one is OC'd to 900MHZ XFX $470 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150601

These is the cheapest 7970 I can find:

HIS $550 : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161399

XFX $590 OC to 1000Mhz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150591

I'm avoiding Sapphire based on your recommendation and ASUS because of a recall http://www.overclock.net/t/1220328/behardware-asus-hd-7950-directcu-ii-fault-report

Card Reviews:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5476/amd-radeon-7950-review

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2012-vga-gpgpu/01-3DMark11-B-Performance,2932.html