Monitor Setups

[JackBurton]

I've heard alot of talk about CPU, GPU's and motherboards upgrades but nothing about display setups and arrays, and FX layouts. Not that you realy need to upgrade a monitor. Its one of those things you dont need to upgrade most of the time. Like a Case or a Power Supply.

I currently have a 27" main monitor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254026) with a 19" monitor that my slaves live in. they both are are set up in the pretty much standard 5box 1 w/ 2x2, horizontal side by side configuration. Mirai's boxing video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiKHcrAJfvc) has led me to look for ways to improve my setup.

Why do i need to change my setup? The aspect ratio's on my current diplays are too different. isboxer included an improvement a few years ago that synced the mouse repeater even though aspect ratio's didnt match across clients. Although the game is defiantly playable with the current setup I would feel more comfortable with an improved monitor array.


MiRai
Watch out, if your Fermi card(s) [nVidia] is/are running multiple monitors at different resolutions, the card itself may be running at full load 24-7 (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1461/19/).



EVGA Forum (http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1405644&mpage=1&print=true)
3 24" monitors takes up a LOT of real estate! I went from 3 24's to 3 23's and I think I would be happy with some 22's. IMO The problem is once your viewing gets beyond your peripheral vision you have just wasted the money. If I were to do it over again I would probably go with the smallest 1920x1080 with good specs that I could find. ASUS makes a 21.5" that is 1920x1080 with a 50 million:1 ratio with a 5ms refresh rate that I like. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236176

What do I want to do with this setup? I want 5 clients across 2 displays with a third display for web browsing and everything else. Have the toon im driving on in the center with the slaves on one of the sides on a Vertically positioned display. Can 4 clients sit 1x4 on a like that and still look decent? Of course I plan on having all toons on minimum settings unless its the toon im driving from.

I've shopped around both online and localy but I cant figure out what to get. I saw some Samsung monitors at my local Costco that scared me. Because apparently not all monitors have the standard VESA mounting system on the back of them. I've seen a nice BenQ product that include a pivot, height and tilt ajustment. Something like that allready in the box would be great. Multi Display mounts (http://www.standsandmounts.com/lenovoibmdesktopmonitor360degreeradialarm-19k4464.aspx) can be pretty expensive for some reason. (http://www.macmall.com/s?cc=MCA*&man=Ergotron)

MiRai Last Years Thread (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/33292-Monitor-Setup-%28opinions%29?highlight=display+setups)
This (http://malice.ws/bin/images/setup02.jpg) is a picture of my old setup from about 15 months ago [3x 23" // 1x 22" (top)]. I'm in the middle of moving from Chicago
to Tennessee and currently in a 'temp' living quarters which brings me down to 1 monitor. I'm also putting together a new
system as well and in TN that 22" is going away for another identical 23". I'm going to keep those vertical monitors where
they are but mount the horizontal ones on top of each other to put them in a rectangle shape on my desk; looking up at that
22" on my old setup eventually began to bother my neck.

I would recommend monitors that have a native resolution of 1920x1080 in case you play WoW in full screen mode solo and
want to record with FRAPS, makes video editing and converting between 1080p and 720p all that much easier (just my
opinion). I'm sure 1900x1200 is a nice resolution as well, you lose a little bit of the horizontal space and gain some vertical
space, not a huge difference between the 2 choices I'm sure.

This quote is from a thread a year old. MiRai do you still have the same opinions now that GPU's Power has changed?

These are the displays I was thinking of buying. Which of the two would you get?

28" Hanns-G HZ281 1920 x 1200, VESA 100x100 3ms (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254052) / This would be the mounting arm I would use (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824994039) - $370 (allready have one)
24" ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 2m 1920 x 1080 VESA 100x100 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236049) / This would be the mounting arm I would use (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824994039) $510


This quote will hold true until the new nVidia cards are released (different architecture)

Have any idea when Nvidia is releasing its next generation cards? Have any idea when Intel is releasing (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Intel-to-Release-22nm-Ivy-Bridge-CPUs-on-April-8-Say-Taiwan-PC-Makers-243276.shtml) the Ivy Bridge chipsets (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/ivy_bridge_benchmarks_specifications_and_q2_2012_r elease_date_leak)? Think they will release them in Synergy? Express3 and all that? I've been reading some stuff recently that's made me reconsider upgrading right now.


russianhaxor (http://www.reddit.com/user/russianhaxor) Reddit
How badly do you need/want this rig?
(http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/p08v1/build_ready_need_opinions_plz/)
Because its going to be obsolete relatively soon and you can probably get 20-30% better performance out of it if you wait a few months... (http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/p08v1/build_ready_need_opinions_plz/)
Hard Drives will get cheaper... and so will SSDs. (http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/p08v1/build_ready_need_opinions_plz/)
If you like this build, by all means build it. There's nothing wrong with it at all. I probably would've picked a different case, but that's generally a matter of asthetics than anything else. (http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/p08v1/build_ready_need_opinions_plz/)





Do you realy think it will be a considerable margin of improvement?


Extreme Tech ForumsThe difficulty of software optimization is a further reason why adding more CPU cores doesn’t help much. Game developers have made progress in using multi-core systems, but the rate of advance has been slow. Games like

(http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)Rage (http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/99729-deconstructing-rage-what-went-wrong-and-how-to-fix-it) and Battlefield 3 — two high-profile titles that use multiple cores — both utilized new engines designed from the ground-up with multi-core scaling as a primary goal.
(http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)
The bottom line is that its been easier for Intel and AMD to add cores than it is for software to take advantage of them. Seven years after the multi-core era began, it’s already morphing into something different. (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)



ISboxer wiki
Note: Some Intel chips, such as the i7, will list having more CPU cores (logically) than they physically have. These extra CPU cores do not count as part of our recommendations as they cannot fully power a game instance and must be paired with a physical core (http://isboxer.com/wiki/Multiboxing#Minimum_System_Requirements)


Lax
The way i7 cores work is 1,3,5,7 are physical (real) cores and 2,4,6,8 are logical (fake) cores. My understanding is that for optimal performance, each fake core should be paired up with its corresponding physical core. And you should never assign only a fake core.

With 5 WoW instances on my i7, here is what I set mine to:
Slot 1: 1,2
Slot 2: 3,4
Slot 3: 5,6
Slot 4: 7,8
Slot 5: 5,7 (this one is assigned 2 physical cores)

This has served me well and is what I recommend to other i7 users. Enjoy http://isboxer.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
(http://isboxer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1090)

[MiRai]

MiRai
Watch out, if your Fermi card(s) [nVidia] is/are running multiple monitors at
different resolutions, the card itself may be running at full load 24-7 (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1461/19/).

This quote will hold true until the new nVidia cards are released (different architecture).


Can 4 clients sit 1x4 on a like that and still look decent?
I found that 4 clients stacked on a vertical monitor looked acceptable.



MiRai
I would recommend monitors that have a native resolution of 1920x1080 in case
you play WoW in full screen mode solo and want to record with FRAPS, makes
video editing and converting between 1080p and 720p all that much easier (just
my opinion). I'm sure 1900x1200 is a nice resolution as well, you lose a little bit of
the horizontal space and gain some vertical space, not a huge difference between
the 2 choices I'm sure.

This quote is from a thread a year old. Do you still have the same opinions now that GPU's have changed?

Yep.

[MiRai]

First of all, please reply to this thread instead of continually modifying the original post. It's very confusing to have replied to your original post and then all of a sudden there are 50 new lines of text which weren't there before.


These are the displays I was thinking of buying. Which of the two would you get?

28" Hanns-G HZ281 1920 x 1200, VESA 100x100 3ms (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254052) / This would be the mounting arm I would use (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824994039) - $370 (allready have one)
24" ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 2m 1920 x 1080 VESA 100x100 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236049) / This would be the mounting arm I would use (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824994039) $510
Monitors are a personal choice and unless you're a web designer or photographer or some sort of graphic artist, they're pretty much all the same (I might get yelled at for saying that). The only thing I would recommend is that it has a DVI port on it and that you use it.

As for what you've listed:
Do you want a big 28" screen in your face?
You said you wanted 3 screens so, do you have room for 3x 28" screens on your desk?

I wouldn't choose the 28" monitor for the reason I listed that you quoted, and that is that I don't like a 1920x1200 native resolution (other people do). That ASUS monitor also has over 1400 reviews on Newegg compared to the 300 that the HannsG has. I don't uphold Newegg reviews to a high standard, by any means, but that would be a lot of people to be wrong about a product.




This quote will hold true until the new nVidia cards are released (different architecture)

Have any idea when Nvidia is releasing its next generation cards?
ATi has already released the new generation of video cards and nVidia should be doing so in March/April.


Have any idea when Intel is releasing (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Intel-to-Release-22nm-Ivy-Bridge-CPUs-on-April-8-Say-Taiwan-PC-Makers-243276.shtml) the Ivy Bridge chipsets (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/ivy_bridge_benchmarks_specifications_and_q2_2012_r elease_date_leak)?
Your Google search is as accurate as my Google search.


Think they will release them in Synergy? Express3 and all that?
Certain motherboards today are already equipped with PCIe 3.0.


I've been reading some stuff recently that's made me reconsider upgrading right now.


russianhaxor (http://www.reddit.com/user/russianhaxor) Reddit
How badly do you need/want this rig?
(http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/p08v1/build_ready_need_opinions_plz/)
Because its going to be obsolete relatively soon and you can probably get 20-30% better performance out of it if you wait a few months... (http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/p08v1/build_ready_need_opinions_plz/)
Hard Drives will get cheaper... and so will SSDs. (http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/p08v1/build_ready_need_opinions_plz/)
If you like this build, by all means build it. There's nothing wrong with it at all. I probably would've picked a different case, but that's generally a matter of asthetics than anything else. (http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/p08v1/build_ready_need_opinions_plz/)
Here's the problem with that statement. If you wait a few months now, then why not wait a few more months for the next best thing? Or even better... If you can wait 6 months why not wait 9 months? Or 12 months?

See where this is going? You get stuck in a waiting game because after one technology gets released the next step up is right around the corner again. However, right now we're close to nVidia releasing their new technology and Intel possibly releasing Ivy Bridge. If you need to upgrade right now, then do so; otherwise, I might wait to see Ivy Bridge pricing compared to Sandy Bridge. Then again, there's also the part where you'd be investing in brand new technology which hasn't fully matured yet and you might find yourself in the middle of a recall like brand new Sandy Bridge customers did last year.


Do you realy think it will be a considerable margin of improvement?


Extreme Tech ForumsThe difficulty of software optimization is a further reason why adding more CPU cores doesn’t help much. Game developers have made progress in using multi-core systems, but the rate of advance has been slow. Games like

(http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)Rage (http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/99729-deconstructing-rage-what-went-wrong-and-how-to-fix-it) and Battlefield 3 — two high-profile titles that use multiple cores — both utilized new engines designed from the ground-up with multi-core scaling as a primary goal.
(http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)
The bottom line is that its been easier for Intel and AMD to add cores than it is for software to take advantage of them. Seven years after the multi-core era began, it’s already morphing into something different. (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)

At this point we're deviating from your monitor setup but, every single review or benchmark you are going to find on the internet is going to be while playing a single game. Do we buy hardware and build machines so we can play a single game or do we do it so we can play 5 or more at the same time? I think the answer is obvious that multiboxing on a quad-core processor is much better than multiboxing on a dual-core processor. In terms of multiboxing World of Warcraft, more cores = more performance.

[JackBurton]

I really didn't want to shamelessly bump my own thread. I didnt want people thinking I would do my own homework. I accidentally started the thread before I could proof read it. I got carried away updating the first post my bad. I can't afford improvements every quarter. I last upgraded my PC two years ago actually. So I have to do a lot of research before I buy. I hear a lot of conflicting advice so I wanted to hear from boxers themselves.

[JackBurton]

How come no one mentioned the newest IPS technology? Sounds like their viewing angles would be useful for those setting up monitors vertically. They are up to 25% more expensive but most of the Manufacturer includes Pivoting on the mount that would save me 100 on a 3rd party mount. Lots of these Monitors are sold out in most Websites. When im looking for the best product in a store one of the things I look for is what is almost sold out. I also read that this panel that Dell uses on this model is just something re-branded originally made by LG.


Removing the back of the U2312HM confirms that the screen is using LG.Display's LM230WF3-SLD1 panel (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/content/dell_u2312hm.htm#ergonomics)
Dell UltraSharp U2312HM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260055) SOLD OUT

LG IPS231P-BN Black 23" (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005234) sold out

[Kekkerer]

I've just bought a bunch of these monitors:

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/382087-382087-64283-72270-3884471-5163694.html?dnr=1 (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/382087-382087-64283-72270-3884471-5163694.html?dnr=1)


The great thing about them is that they are wLED matrix (the matrix part is important) backlit and hence age better than CCFL displays.

[JackBurton]

A 700 monitor? Got any handmedown hardware Daddy Warbucks?

Im happy that the 2312 became available on Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260055) finally, but even better its 40 bucks cheaper on Dell's website (http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=us&l=en&cs=&k=U2312HM&cat=all&x=0&y=0).

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Do you realy think it will be a considerable margin of improvement?

Extreme Tech Forums: The difficulty of software optimization is a further reason why adding more CPU cores doesn’t help much. Game developers have made progress in using multi-core systems, but the rate of advance has been slow. Games like

(http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)Rage (http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/99729-deconstructing-rage-what-went-wrong-and-how-to-fix-it) and Battlefield 3 — two high-profile titles that use multiple cores — both utilized new engines designed from the ground-up with multi-core scaling as a primary goal.
(http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)
The bottom line is that its been easier for Intel and AMD to add cores than it is for software to take advantage of them. Seven years after the multi-core era began, it’s already morphing into something different. (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/116561-the-death-of-cpu-scaling-from-one-core-to-many-and-why-were-still-stuck/2)





That quote, as MiRai said, is in the context of a single application. Sure, games like WoW may be optimized for 2 cores and more won't make much difference but you're not just running one copy of WoW -- you're running 2-10. At that point, having intelligent affinity settings spreads the load across all cores evenly, which will DRAMATICALLY improve the system's responsiveness and stability. We effectively play a different game than everyone else, so normal benchmarks just don't apply.

[MiRai]

How come no one mentioned the newest IPS technology? Sounds like their viewing angles would be useful for those setting up monitors vertically.
Something that I just came across that might help - http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2226747

[Kekkerer]

The monitor I mentioned is IPS and that's why it's got a price premium. IPS for multi monitor setups is great because on normal monitors you see significant colour variation due to varying viewing angles per monitor, that does not occur with IPS (They advertise viewing angles of 178 degrees with no colour variation). The problem with IPS is that you have to do quite a bit of research on which one to buy, you generally want to avoid ones that have built in scalers because that increases input lag and in my opinion LED marix backlighting is the only way to go. Samsung panels for example have a row of LEDs on the sides which makes the panels much thinner but you get a lot of backlight bleed (Edge-LED).

[Kekkerer]

To illustrate my pro IPS point here is the difference between viewing angles for a normal (TN) vs IPS displays.

TN: http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/monitor/2008/24inch-roundup/asus-mk241h-angles.jpg
IPS: http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/monitor/2008/24inch-roundup/dell-2408wfp-angles.jpg

Lots of useful information about displays:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3372494&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

[confusedtx5]

The monitor I mentioned is IPS and that's why it's got a price premium. IPS for multi monitor setups is great because on normal monitors you see significant colour variation due to varying viewing angles per monitor, that does not occur with IPS (They advertise viewing angles of 178 degrees with no colour variation). The problem with IPS is that you have to do quite a bit of research on which one to buy, you generally want to avoid ones that have built in scalers because that increases input lag and in my opinion LED marix backlighting is the only way to go. Samsung panels for example have a row of LEDs on the sides which makes the panels much thinner but you get a lot of backlight bleed (Edge-LED).

They're also 2560x1440 resolution which adds to the price quite a bit. Sexy as hell in my opinion (single 2560x1600 here - never going back...ever), but require more processing grunt to run.

The IPS comparison looks great, def gonna get some of those next time I change monitors.