Want to get better in arena? Ask questions here.

[Shodokan]

Theres no limit to what you can ask but please understand if i don't have a super awesome answer for it. Please keep this civil as i'm just trying to help here.

Keeping this simple and open ended.

I will not answer software related questions though.

[Emo?]

One question that i think many would like to discuss is the target prioritizing when playing 4dk+1healer.

I find myself losing sometimes to what i think is, picking the wrong target. I manly open on lock/druid if it exists one, try to DG the lock before he gets a portal up, in that case he have a high chanse of dying. Pritty much alwats swap to warriors that reckstorming cause they go down like shit.

Thoughts/experience?

[Fat Tire]

I have found that videos help more than anything else. I myself have learned so much from videos and then putting it into action than anything I have tried. Granted none of those videos were mutiboxing videos, but they translated pretty easily.

I am not talking about the ton of chessy "highlight" videos out there. I am talking about videos that show what the player is thinking and tactics involved. More specific I am talking about pvp players who stream, and record their streams for others that can be watched at anytime. You get to see all the wins as well as all of the losses.

I admit I have copied their UIs, tatics and strats and sometimes their live streams can be entertaining. They are my secret to my ratings,pvp success and also my paid carries.

[Nikita]

You said you did 2 DKs + 1 ret. What tacs are you using here? How do you counter RMP? RLS? FMP? TSG? Are you going for the healer @ the start? Or do you start on a DPS to force defensive CDs from the healer, then switch quick and gib him?

[turbo92]

EDIT: found my answer

[Sydwayz]

Do you use Death Coil?
Do you play aggressive or defensive?
Do you change you tactics from beginning of match to the end of the match?
Does your healer worry about anything other than you staying alive? i.e. interrupts
What do you do when you play the same team over and over again?
What is your most important/used spell?

Thank you for your help. Your awesome.

[Shodokan]

One question that i think many would like to discuss is the target prioritizing when playing 4dk+1healer.

I find myself losing sometimes to what i think is, picking the wrong target. I manly open on lock/druid if it exists one, try to DG the lock before he gets a portal up, in that case he have a high chanse of dying. Pritty much alwats swap to warriors that reckstorming cause they go down like shit.

Thoughts/experience?

It REALLY depends on comp.

For me the following normally holds true.

Kill a healer if its shaman/priest healer. Kill a reck'd warrior. Sit on DK after it blows AMS since it's defensive cooldowns are crap. Chain silences on one healer while you kill the other. Firemages need to die... like ASAP. Other than that clothies are my primary targets or boomkins. Silences never go into holy paladins due to bubble + trinket + aura mastery.


I have found that videos help more than anything else. I myself have learned so much from videos and then putting it into action than anything I have tried. Granted none of those videos were mutiboxing videos, but they translated pretty easily.

I am not talking about the ton of chessy "highlight" videos out there. I am talking about videos that show what the player is thinking and tactics involved. More specific I am talking about pvp players who stream, and record their streams for others that can be watched at anytime. You get to see all the wins as well as all of the losses.

I admit I have copied their UIs, tatics and strats and sometimes their live streams can be entertaining. They are my secret to my ratings,pvp success and also my paid carries.

I do stream 3's sometimes but i hate streaming 5's. My FPS drops too much unless i KILL my video settings. I will be streaming my 3's i am going to run with my shaman i think.


You said you did 2 DKs + 1 ret. What tacs are you using here? How do you counter RMP? RLS? FMP? TSG? Are you going for the healer @ the start? Or do you start on a DPS to force defensive CDs from the healer, then switch quick and gib him?

RMP: Paladin sits on mage, dks kill priest
RLS: Swap between shaman and lock or just kill shaman
FMP: AMS for when going for a kill otherwise tunnel the priest
TSG: CC paladin and sit DK unless warrior recks... you can also try and global the paladin when he pops out from behind a corner with all your burst.

Its a mixture of what you talk about.

The most important thing vs shaman teams is knowing to kill spirit link as soon as it is dropped. This cannot be done through macros anymore.


Do you use Death Coil?
Do you play aggressive or defensive?
Do you change you tactics from beginning of match to the end of the match?
Does your healer worry about anything other than you staying alive? i.e. interrupts
What do you do when you play the same team over and over again?
What is your most important/used spell?

Thank you for your help. Your awesome.

Not normally, it hits for significantly less than frost strike
Never defensive.
Yes, i change tatics a lot depending on how they react, what they are doing for CC etc.
No they do not
I stop queuing if i get a team more than 5 times within 20 mins above 1900 unless i'm farming them so bad it isn't even funny.
Frost strike, howling blast, strangulate correctly.

[daanji]

How can you effectively kill spirit link totem? With everything going on, I can't find the damn thing.

I really with there was a "KILL THE TOTEM NOW" mod that painted a giant RED CROSS over it so I can easily select and destroy it.

[daanji]

Also, do you use Dark Simulacrum? If so, how do you use it?

[Fat Tire]

I do stream 3's sometimes but i hate streaming 5's. My FPS drops too much unless i KILL my video settings. I will be streaming my 3's i am going to run with my shaman i think.


I think my point was missed. No worries.

[Shodokan]

I think my point was missed. No worries.

I understood your point. Your point was that people can get better by watching other people of a higher caliber play. Thus my comment.

[daanji]

I believe his point was that you can get better by watching videos of yourself and critiquing what you did wrong and what the opposing team did correctly.

Though, your statement is equally valid.

[Sydwayz]

Thank you so much for the tips and insight into how you play.

How do you use strangulate effectively?
I cannot seem to get it to go off when i absolutely need it to.

[Shodokan]

Thank you so much for the tips and insight into how you play.

How do you use strangulate effectively?
I cannot seem to get it to go off when i absolutely need it to.

Its hard to, have to not mash so much and TRY and make sure you have the rune :\

[Fat Tire]

There are a number of top pvp dks who stream, I would recommend those to all dks boxers. For rets Vanguards stream often and records, there are a number of other rets who stream also. All classes are streamed quite often by the best players. Watch and learn and most important listen, then apply it to boxing, a better solo pvp player will ultimately be a better pvp boxer. However, with that said I would still like to see some streams/fraps of your 3s shodo as I am sure the community would also. Its just another avenue for people who wish to learn all they can about pvp. Alot of streams suck but its pretty easy to find the best ones with the streamers who are pretty chill and not raging or cursing like a sailor.

You can follow you favorites and be notified when they are streaming.

http://www.twitch.tv/directory/World%20of%20Warcraft:%20Cataclysm

http://www.own3d.tv/game/World+of+Warcraft

[daanji]

Feral Druids. I cannot kill them.

In a recent 3v3 match, my opponents were also Triple DPS. A rogue, ret paladin, and a feral druid.

I killed both the rogue and the retribution paladin. I lost a single DK, the other 2 were at full health and the feral druid was also at full health.

No problem right? 2v1? Piece of cake? I lost. I was smashing him as hard as I could, but I could not overcome his frenzied regeneration and bear form.

[zenga]

Feral Druids. I cannot kill them.

In a recent 3v3 match, my opponents were also Triple DPS. A rogue, ret paladin, and a feral druid.

I killed both the rogue and the retribution paladin. I lost a single DK, the other 2 were at full health and the feral druid was also at full health.

No problem right? 2v1? Piece of cake? I lost. I was smashing him as hard as I could, but I could not overcome his frenzied regeneration and bear form.


Bear form is OP atm because the way vengeance currently work in pvp. When 4.3.2 hits, vengeance can no longer be gained in pvp. Druid bear form is still good defence, but they will hit like a sissy in bear form. For now you'll have to keep track of his vengeance stacks, and kite him w/o damaging him until it's reset, then blow cd's. Rinse & repeat.

[daanji]

I had an interesting time in a Stormwind raid today.

I encountered a mage I could not kill.

I death grip him in, silenced, blow cool downs and smash hit. His health went from 100% to 0% to 100% again.

I killed all Alliance near by, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't getting heals. As I continued to smash him, his health would ping-pong from 0% to 50% over and over again.

With 5x Dks, 5x Army, 2x Paladin HoJ, a Hunter, and my silence we could not kill him.

I think Cauterize was bugging out and proccing multiple times a minute. If this was not the case, then I don't know what is going on.

[zenga]

I had an interesting time in a Stormwind raid today.

I encountered a mage I could not kill.

I death grip him in, silenced, blow cool downs and smash hit. His health went from 100% to 0% to 100% again.

I killed all Alliance near by, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't getting heals. As I continued to smash him, his health would ping-pong from 0% to 50% over and over again.

With 5x Dks, 5x Army, 2x Paladin HoJ, a Hunter, and my silence we could not kill him.

I think Cauterize was bugging out and proccing multiple times a minute. If this was not the case, then I don't know what is going on.

It's done through fucking around with trading an item. If they follow the proper 'steps', than the classes who have a last stand ability (like cauterize) get 15 minutes of god mode. Blizzard is aware and I assume they 'll fix it any time soon (they already fixed a variation of it). If you saw an influx of epic gems for example by the goldsellers, very likely they used this :)

[daanji]

Ah, thought it was some glitch.

At first, we thought our camping of the Stormwind Auction House had caused enough tickets that a GM showed up in God Mode.
But then I realized it was just some regular slob on the server.

After the raid, the god-mode mage logged onto a Horde toon to gloat about it. He was stating how skilled he was and how badass that he took on 10 character and survived.


Thanks for the info! It gives me more information to put in my ticket :)

[Shodokan]

Feral Druids. I cannot kill them.

In a recent 3v3 match, my opponents were also Triple DPS. A rogue, ret paladin, and a feral druid.

I killed both the rogue and the retribution paladin. I lost a single DK, the other 2 were at full health and the feral druid was also at full health.

No problem right? 2v1? Piece of cake? I lost. I was smashing him as hard as I could, but I could not overcome his frenzied regeneration and bear form.

The problem with druids is you NEED to stop hitting them UNLESS they used their healing cooldowns and such. If they have just stack necrotics on them and laugh at them, If they haven't you neeed to kite them so turn CTM off and have one dk follow the other and use Chains of Ice and howling blast. Druids are decently easy to kite.

[sethlan]

I really want to start arenas with my shamans but all of them are elementals, I really dont care about the rating, but would like to cap conquest points every week- do you pick on healer first or dps?

[Shodokan]

I really want to start arenas with my shamans but all of them are elementals, I really dont care about the rating, but would like to cap conquest points every week- do you pick on healer first or dps?

Depends on the comp. But normally i blow up a healer first.

[sethlan]

ok, im working also on mages, they are level 60 atm, not sure if thats gonna be ok for arenas.

[Shodokan]

ok, im working also on mages, they are level 60 atm, not sure if thats gonna be ok for arenas.

Nope. Mages are terrible for 5's.

[sethlan]

Nope. Mages are terrible for 5's.

how about druids? or warlocks?

[Nikita]

The only comp that would work above 1800+ rating would be melee cleave. Too easy to lock down casters in arenas.

[sethlan]

The only comp that would work above 1800+ rating would be melee cleave. Too easy to lock down casters in arenas.

agree, I guess I'm going to start working on DK's.

Is 5v5 harder than 3v3 lets say 3x dks, or for 5's 4x dks 1 pala.

[hannibal]

I assume you are playing 4dk+pally.

If so, how are you using hungering cold now that it has a cast time?

Do you use dark sim and if so how?

Are you "steering" the dks from the pally or do you actively play one of the dks?

thx

[Shodokan]

I assume you are playing 4dk+pally.

If so, how are you using hungering cold now that it has a cast time?

Do you use dark sim and if so how?

Are you "steering" the dks from the pally or do you actively play one of the dks?

thx

holy paladin calls when he is using aura mastery, i use it then... can't be interupted.

[Sydwayz]

how do you handle smoke bombs. Does you healer come in or do you run out?

Does you healer play close or at max distance?

Do you have a kill button or are kills based more on silencing heals?

[Shodokan]

how do you handle smoke bombs. Does you healer come in or do you run out?

Does you healer play close or at max distance?

Do you have a kill button or are kills based more on silencing heals?

No such thing as a kill button.

Plays outside unless smokebomb. I normally save trinket for bombs and run out of it towards one of their healers. But if i can't he runs in.

[Sydwayz]

Is there any reason or do you currently use Outbreak?

[Shodokan]

Is there any reason or do you currently use Outbreak?

I don't have any idea what you are asking here.

[Sydwayz]

I guess you don't use it then...lol.

Outbreak is just one of the death knight spells that puts two diseases on a target instantly.

...Do you use obliterate very much?

[Shodokan]

I guess you don't use it then...lol.

Outbreak is just one of the death knight spells that puts two diseases on a target instantly.

...Do you use obliterate very much?

I use that in my "burst" macro, and when on clothies I use obliterate otherwise the damage gain is minimal and you are better off with the extra runic power from your HB/NS.

[Ashley]

How can you effectively kill spirit link totem? With everything going on, I can't find the damn thing.

I really with there was a "KILL THE TOTEM NOW" mod that painted a giant RED CROSS over it so I can easily select and destroy it.

Theres an addon called Healers Must Die which puts a big X on their nameplates. Possibly could show an X on the spirit link, if not, the author of the addon could add it if you got in touch.

Worst case, have a macro for both mana tide and SLT as both of these totems need to die asap imho.

[Shodokan]

Theres an addon called Healers Must Die which puts a big X on their nameplates. Possibly could show an X on the spirit link, if not, the author of the addon could add it if you got in touch.

Worst case, have a macro for both mana tide and SLT as both of these totems need to die asap imho.

Can't target totems with macros unless you use protected API.

[Emenems]

How you are doing damage with retri? 2 step or some castsequence macros?
When you play dk/ret combo what class is your 'main'?

[Shodokan]

How you are doing damage with retri? 2 step or some castsequence macros?
When you play dk/ret combo what class is your 'main'?

Ret due to procs.

[Xanatus]

I use that in my "burst" macro, and when on clothies I use obliterate otherwise the damage gain is minimal and you are better off with the extra runic power from your HB/NS.

whats your burst makro shodokan?

[Shodokan]

whats your burst makro shodokan?

Same sorta thing that was in the "manifesto"

pillar of frost, on use trinket, pet, ams, and IBF to prevent stuns on me while bursting.

[Xanatus]

thank u

[heyaz]

Feral Druids. I cannot kill them.

No problem right? 2v1? Piece of cake? I lost. I was smashing him as hard as I could, but I could not overcome his frenzied regeneration and bear form.

That sounds about right. I can kill 2 separately controlled Frost DKs on my feral druid because the class is too squishy - put up a couple bleeds, go bear form, watch them die.



Do you have a kill button or are kills based more on silencing heals?

Man, there hasn't been a kill button since BC. It could often be outhealed in Wotlk back when one attack could knock off 30% of HP. In Cata, it's hard to hit an attack that big on 0 resilience.

[sethlan]

I really would like to cap conquest points every week, i don't care much about rating, I just cant do it. I did few games and it sucked. I'm boxing 5 ele shamans i390, pvp gear. Also i'm thinking to spec 1 shaman heals, Missing only 2 pieces for healing spec. Maybe that would help. I'm capped with honor points. Thinking to create 4 dks and buy heirloom gear for them.

[Nikita]

Recommend to go 5 elementals, pop 5 x healing rain and 5 x EQ on yourself, do a quick hex and your bound to get your cap. Practice makes champ :)

[sethlan]

Nikita: Thanks! That is true,- I'm going to practice more.

Btw, can 5 ret paladins do OK in 5v5?

[traedoril]

I single box in RLS any one got any advice on beating PMR. All our losses this season are against RMP and Triple DPS.

[Shodokan]

I single box in RLS any one got any advice on beating PMR. All our losses this season are against RMP and Triple DPS.

Rogue needs to be on their mage as much as possible to stop damage. Rogue damage is negated through healing. If you aren't above 2400 mmr right now though you don't know what good RMP's are capable of. I suggest finding a high rated RMP on your server who are currently sitting gladiator and doing wargames until you understand the matchup. Theres no 1 answer to any pvp comp, its ever changing due to map and current circumstances.

[daanji]

I've been trying to push to 2200, however I can't seem to get past 1800 this season.
I am full cataclysmic with epic gems so additional gear won't help.
I've tried a few different combinations, (3s 2x Frost + Ret, 3s 2x Frost + Holy Paladin, 5s 4x Frost + Holy Paladin) and can't seem to do well.
Currently, I am dual 2H Frost and thinking that perhaps Dual Wield would work better.

How do you use your cool downs? I wait till I select a primary target and a focus target. Once I am in range, I blow all my cooldowns. This includes

/use 10 (glove tinker, snyapse spring
/cast Pillar of Frost
/cast Anti-Magic Shell
/cast Icebound Fortitude
/cast Raise Dead

For my focus target, I try to harass them with strangulate and death grip to break their casts.

For my kill sequence, cast

/cast Empower Rune Weapon
/use 13 (one use strength trinket)
/cast Outbreak

Then I use Obliterate + Frost strike to force a kill.

This works 65% of the time, but I tend to lose against the better teams.



Rogues tend to peel my DKs like crazy as do Frost Mages, so my DPS is weakened.
Rogues, Mages, Ferals, and locks CC my Holy Paladin so his heals are useless.
If my partner is Ret, he is basically a glass cannon.
Ferals bleed cause me to die fast.

Rogues, Fire Mage, Holy Paladin is impossible to win against.


Arrgh.

[Shodokan]

I've been trying to push to 2200, however I can't seem to get past 1800 this season.
I am full cataclysmic with epic gems so additional gear won't help.
I've tried a few different combinations, (3s 2x Frost + Ret, 3s 2x Frost + Holy Paladin, 5s 4x Frost + Holy Paladin) and can't seem to do well.
Currently, I am dual 2H Frost and thinking that perhaps Dual Wield would work better.

How do you use your cool downs? I wait till I select a primary target and a focus target. Once I am in range, I blow all my cooldowns. This includes

/use 10 (glove tinker, snyapse spring
/cast Pillar of Frost
/cast Anti-Magic Shell
/cast Icebound Fortitude
/cast Raise Dead

For my focus target, I try to harass them with strangulate and death grip to break their casts.

For my kill sequence, cast

/cast Empower Rune Weapon
/use 13 (one use strength trinket)
/cast Outbreak

Then I use Obliterate + Frost strike to force a kill.

This works 65% of the time, but I tend to lose against the better teams.



Rogues tend to peel my DKs like crazy as do Frost Mages, so my DPS is weakened.
Rogues, Mages, Ferals, and locks CC my Holy Paladin so his heals are useless.
If my partner is Ret, he is basically a glass cannon.
Ferals bleed cause me to die fast.

Rogues, Fire Mage, Holy Paladin is impossible to win against.


Arrgh.

I capped out at 2400 this season (not in 5's). Just keep at it. Also oblit is worthless against non cloth targets.

[Keptoknight]

Is it only me that think QUAD boxing BG9 (Bloodlust battlegroup) is tough as shit? Or is it just plain bad luck lolol So many premades left and right. Maybe something I don't know. Stopped playing wow for 8 months. Anyone?

[MiRai]

Is it only me that think QUAD boxing BG9 (Bloodlust battlegroup) is tough as shit? Or is it just plain bad luck lolol So many premades left and right. Maybe something I don't know. Stopped playing wow for 8 months. Anyone?
All battlegroups were merged together around the time that Cataclysm was released. Arena is the only ladder that wasn't merged. This means that "BG9" means absolutely nothing because you're playing with everyone from your region (e.g. North America).

[Kayley]

All battlegroups were merged together around the time that Cataclysm was released. Arena is the only ladder that wasn't merged. This means that "BG9" means absolutely nothing because you're playing with everyone from your region (e.g. North America).

I didn't know that either :|

[Shodokan]

All battlegroups were merged together around the time that Cataclysm was released. Arena is the only ladder that wasn't merged. This means that "BG9" means absolutely nothing because you're playing with everyone from your region (e.g. North America).

BG 9 means a lot actually at least for 3's (competition wise and queues 2300+ throughout the season). But BG won't change the difficulty overall at least for the 5's bracket since it is basically the same thing... zerg and pray for a lot of comps or some gimmick. BG9 would actually be easier to achieve 2200 due to far more activity in both 3's and 5's and you can legit GRIND it out.

Also Mirai cross realm is done by datacenter from my experiences. When playing on SBurn I never once faced a team from bg9 or cyclone only mid west datacenter servers like manno, mag etc or EC servers like KT (i played against chris, zilea, nuvos etc in 5's on their stream)

Also you have to wait 5+ mins to queue against someone cross BG (or they have to have been waiting that long). So queue times are much shorter on BG9 in comparison to other places.


I personally just moved to Tich to play on BG9 for the queues. On Sburn 3's and 5's queues sucked... 20 min 5's queues 2300+ just to play 1900 teams, and 10-15 min 5's queues to not play anyone 2200+.

[MiRai]

BG 9 means a lot actually at least for 3's (competition wise and queues 2300+ throughout the season). But BG won't change the difficulty overall at least for the 5's bracket since it is basically the same thing... zerg and pray for a lot of comps or some gimmick. BG9 would actually be easier to achieve 2200 due to far more activity in both 3's and 5's and you can legit GRIND it out.

Also Mirai cross realm is done by datacenter from my experiences. When playing on SBurn I never once faced a team from bg9 or cyclone only mid west datacenter servers like manno, mag etc or EC servers like KT (i played against chris, zilea, nuvos etc in 5's on their stream)

Also you have to wait 5+ mins to queue against someone cross BG (or they have to have been waiting that long). So queue times are much shorter on BG9 in comparison to other places.


I personally just moved to Tich to play on BG9 for the queues. On Sburn 3's and 5's queues sucked... 20 min 5's queues 2300+ just to play 1900 teams, and 10-15 min 5's queues to not play anyone 2200+.
The second sentence of my post:

All battlegroups were merged together around the time that Cataclysm was released. Arena is the only ladder that wasn't merged. This means that "BG9" means absolutely nothing because you're playing with everyone from your region (e.g. North America).
And you're right, cross-realm zoning is done by datacenter, but that has nothing to do with my reply to Keptoknight and wasn't even active on live realms at the time of my reply.

[Fat Tire]

I think this was just a basic misunderstanding....

BG9 still has a reputation in arenas as the largest and most active. BG9 means nothing in regards to random battlegrounds.

[Shodokan]

I think this was just a basic misunderstanding....

BG9 still has a reputation in arenas as the largest and most active. BG9 means nothing in regards to random battlegrounds.

Indeed it was

I didn't see the post talking about premades left and right >_>

My bad.