Not looking forward to this...

[Multibocks]

Item Level Squish
The second solution actually involves compressing item levels, which is why we call it the “item level squish solution.” If we can lower stats on items, then we can lower every other number in the game as well, such as how much damage a Fireball does or how much health a gronn has. If you look at the item level curves, you can see that most of the growth occurs at the maximum character levels for the various expansions. This is because we keep rewarding more and more powerful gear to make the new raid tier and PvP season in an expansion reward significantly better gear than the previous one. However, those huge item level jumps don’t accomplish a lot once the character level has increased again. Very few players notice or care how much of an upgrade the Black Temple loot is over the Serpentshrine Cavern loot when their characters are level 80.

With that in mind, we could go back and compress the big item level increases that occur at level 60, 70, 80 and 85. The Mists of Pandaria gear would still grow exponentially from patch to patch, but the baselines would be a lot lower. Health could go from 150,000 back down to something like 20,000. The big risk of this approach is that players will log into the new expansion and feel nerfed… even if all the other numbers are compressed as well.

In other words, your Fireball will still do the same percentage damage to a player or a creature that it does today, but the number would be smaller. Logically, this seems like it would work, and it does. But it feels weird. When we tried this internally, everyone agreed that it just felt off throwing a spell for hundreds of damage when you are used to it doing thousands of damage.

I came up with an analogy -- even though I know logically that people drive on the left side of the street in the UK (we drive on the right side of the street in the US) and wouldn’t be surprised to see it, it would still feel really disorienting if I was driving in the UK and had to make a right-hand turn.

If they nerf us back to 20k health so I can fireball something for 800 damage this will prevent me from buying MoP. I like to feel powerful and soloing bosses is something I enjoy doing. I realize that this is only one of the proposed methods of fixing stat scaling, but I'm not looking forward to their decision. I have a bad feeling that this is they way they will go. Like I said, when I get new gear I want to feel like a badass, not imperceptibly better. Where is the fun in that? I wouldn't even bother upgrading from t15 to t16 if I knew that I had to pay out 10kg in enchanting costs for +10 int set total.

/rant off

[Lyonheart]

The bottom line is players like to "feel" like they are getting more powerful for their effort. It does not matter if the numbers get bigger over time.. its feels good. One day we could see " I just crit that guy for 1,000,000 Damage!" and so what?.. thats what you expect down the road.

[jstanthr]

if all numbers are reduced all across the board, your 1mil crit would do the same effective damage as your 800crit as it would take away the same overall % of the health of the mob, (the mob health would be reduced by the same curve) at least that is the way i understand it.

[Multibocks]

yeah but I dont want to hit for 800, not interested thanks.

edit: I want to be clear that I understand the principle of %health per spell. I am actually looking forward to seeing my tank hit 500k health or whatever, that is cool to me.

[valkry]

Could someone just make an addon to add a zero or two to each number in game if they do this change lol?

And TWINKS care about the difference between BT and SSC loot!! FFS!!

[MiRai]

I am hoping they nerf stats into the ground. Where we're at is completely ridiculous and it makes
absolutely no sense that I've got 1/100th of the health at level 60 that I'll have when I'm level 85.

[Multibocks]

I respectfully disagree. There is not much point in being 85 if you are not more powerful than a 60. Would it make sense for a child to come up and kick your ass? Not that sense and wow are relevant.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Could someone just make an addon to add a zero or two to each number in game if they do this change lol?

And TWINKS care about the difference between BT and SSC loot!! FFS!!
See, there's one of those areas where the Law of Unintended Consequences is going to bite them in the ass. There are a bunch of people that run old dungeons for twink alts or just for nostalgia or just to go blow things up that aren't the same old 5-man heroics they've been doing for the last 6 months. If they nerf things so badly that 85/90s won't be able to solo/3/5man old raids or roflstomp older instances the way you can today, they'll be disenfranchising a lot of people.

We'll see whether they consider that, or if they decide that Kung Fu Panda will draw in enough new people so it won't matter.

[EaTCarbS]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GTbsRrzSJ1g/TdjWr47XgQI/AAAAAAAAAIk/7tONFHpZB3s/s1600/13-are-you-serious-face.jpg

The only thing changing is the size of the numbers, not the difficulty of the game. If you're going to bitch and quit over something as stupid as this, then I say "good riddance."

[Kang]

I am hoping they nerf stats into the ground. Where we're at is completely ridiculous and it makes
absolutely no sense that I've got 1/100th of the health at level 60 that I'll have when I'm level 85.


If it's a straight percentage drop then you will still be 1/100th the health of an 85.

Either way it doesnt seem likely they will do this since the blue said it felt weird and everyone agreed. No sense alienating their player base.

[MiRai]

If it's a straight percentage drop then you will still be 1/100th the health of an 85.

Either way it doesnt seem likely they will do this since the blue said it felt weird and everyone agreed. No sense alienating their player base.
From what I understood they wanted to normalize it... not just turn a knob to get a straight percentage
drop. Multibocks didn't link the actual blog post located here which has cool pictures:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585/

[valkry]

If it's a straight percentage drop then you will still be 1/100th the health of an 85.

Either way it doesnt seem likely they will do this since the blue said it felt weird and everyone agreed. No sense alienating their player base.
No, they are nerfing the exponation increase, so instead of increasing massively from lvl 60 onwards, it's only slightly. Instead of getting like 200 hp a lvl, it will be like 40.

IMO, they should just make the lvling stat increases linear, with the gear at max lvls increasing in that same linear. So that the BiS gear at lvl 80 would be as good as gear you get at lvl 84. But so that if you level from 60-61, you get 40 hp, if you lvl from 80-81, you get 40 hp.


From what I understood they wanted to normalize it... not just turn a knob to get a straight percentage
drop. Multibocks didn't link the actual blog post located here which has cool pictures:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585/

Yes, fig. 5 from that link, is what it should be like imo.

10 lvl 60s should be able to bring down a lvl 85, just like a whole gang of 40s can take a 60.

[Khatovar]

I'm all for it. Maybe then maybe healing won't be such a struggle when crossing expansion thresholds. Big numbers don't mean anything to me as long as the thing I'm hitting dies and the things hitting it live. ;)

[Lyonheart]

if all numbers are reduced all across the board, your 1mil crit would do the same effective damage as your 800crit as it would take away the same overall % of the health of the mob, (the mob health would be reduced by the same curve) at least that is the way i understand it.


I know how the math works.. I'm talking about the perception that players have... players WANT to feel MORE powerful as they advance in the game..from level to level..gear upgrade to gear upgrade..expansion to expansion. Its all in the mind, I know.. but it FEELS better as you level and upgrade to see your damage do higher numbers and your heals heal for more.. PERIOD! Thats why its a bad idea to squelch the numbers IMHO!

[Littleburst]

I think your perception will change soon enough.At lvl 60 you were like whooo 800 dmg aswell. It all about to what you relate it. Ofcourse back then you didn't had 70k crits, but I doubt it'll really have an effect. People justhave to flip the switch.

[Multibocks]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GTbsRrzSJ1g/TdjWr47XgQI/AAAAAAAAAIk/7tONFHpZB3s/s1600/13-are-you-serious-face.jpg

The only thing changing is the size of the numbers, not the difficulty of the game. If you're going to bitch and quit over something as stupid as this, then I say "good riddance."

You have so much faith in blizzard it's cute. Despite what you say, difficulty will change. Thats the thing with exponential explosion, you have much more health right now than was designed for a boss from BC. If they normalize health you bet your ass difficulty is going to change. It possible it may even become easier.

[Daeri]

They would not only reduce all the numbers they would also reduce (remove ? I know from experience that once Blizzard take a direction they really explore it completely) the big gaps between expansions so rushing old dungeons / raids may become really more difficult if not impossible. Even it's not intended by Blizzard, lots of people like to be able to easily solo old contents for various reasons (farm a mount or a pet, complete an old set, get old achievements..)

I personally don't mind big numbers. To keep them easy to read, just change the unit (1.2M instead of 1 200 000) and voila.

[valkry]

I know how the math works.. I'm talking about the perception that players have... players WANT to feel MORE powerful as they advance in the game..from level to level..gear upgrade to gear upgrade..expansion to expansion. Its all in the mind, I know.. but it FEELS better as you level and upgrade to see your damage do higher numbers and your heals heal for more.. PERIOD! Thats why its a bad idea to squelch the numbers IMHO!
Give it two months and after a while, you will go from 800 crits to 900 crits and will feel HUGE!!


You have so much faith in blizzard it's cute. Despite what you say, difficulty will change. Thats the thing with exponential explosion, you have much more health right now than was designed for a boss from BC. If they normalize health you bet your ass difficulty is going to change. It possible it may even become easier.
The bosses stats/dmg and hp will also go down though. It will still take the boss 4 hits to kill you and you 3 heals to get to full. Only the number's size will change, not the effectiveness.

Bagging someone for having faith in blizzard, yet you play their game too... cute.

[Lyonheart]

No, they are nerfing the exponation increase, so instead of increasing massively from lvl 60 onwards, it's only slightly. Instead of getting like 200 hp a lvl, it will be like 40.


Ok i should have stated that I was not talking about ME..im talking about the masses. I will play MoP 100% for sure. Even if I'm playing something else at the time. I know I, personally, will get used to the change. Look at this way. If they make NO change..how many people will quit because the stats are "out of control"? MAYBE a few out out millions? But this change will cause a lot of people to not even bother with the expansion. They will see it as a big nerf and not buy MoP.. A players perception and how they "feel" about the game mean everything to some, and they don't want to ever "feel" like they are going backward. This change will do that for them.

Again.. I understand the PoV of why Bliz is considering this.. I just think it will hurt their subs more than it would help...and doing nothing will have very low to no negative effect.

[valkry]

Ok i should have stated that I was not talking about ME..im talking about the masses. I will play MoP 100% for sure. Even if I'm playing something else at the time. I know I, personally, will get used to the change. Look at this way. If they make NO change..how many people will quit because the stats are "out of control"? MAYBE a few out out millions? But this change will cause a lot of people to not even bother with the expansion. They will see it as a big nerf and not buy MoP.. A players perception and how they "feel" about the game mean everything to some, and they don't want to ever "feel" like they are going backward. This change will do that for them.

Again.. I understand the PoV of why Bliz is considering this.. I just think it will hurt their subs more than it would help...and doing nothing will have very low to no negative effect.
And then those players will come crawling back lol, like they always do. WoW is STILL the biggest MMO. Those we lose wont be missed

[MiRai]

You have so much faith in blizzard it's cute. Despite what you say, difficulty will change. Thats the thing with exponential explosion, you have much more health right now than was designed for a boss from BC. If they normalize health you bet your ass difficulty is going to change.
In MoP you're going to be 6 - 9 tiers above what a BC boss would be. I'm pretty sure you're still going to
have no problem downing old raids with much less people than originally intended.

It possible it may even become easier.
Then, what's the problem? You're threatening to quit when you're not even sure if it's going to be harder
or easier.

[Multibocks]

Give it two months and after a while, you will go from 800 crits to 900 crits and will feel HUGE!!


The bosses stats/dmg and hp will also go down though. It will still take the boss 4 hits to kill you and you 3 heals to get to full. Only the number's size will change, not the effectiveness.

Bagging someone for having faith in blizzard, yet you play their game too... cute.

What does having faith to do with playing their game? That's fucking moronic.

You clearly don't understand the complexities of the combat system. What about armor? And no a % change does not work in time to live. Its not as simple as "reduce all the numbers" and even blizzard knows that. There are always unintended consequences when you make sweeping changes. I bet you any amount of money they will Fuck it up. The question is: if it doesn't affect current raid content, will they bother to fix it? I'm guessing no.


In MoP you're going to be 6 - 9 tiers above what a BC boss would be. I'm pretty sure you're still going to
have no problem downing old raids with much less people than originally intended.

Then, what's the problem? You're threatening to quit when you're not even sure if it's going to be harder
or easier.

No I said I'm not looking forward to it. Yes if its screwed up then I will quit. If its better then game on Garth. I'm also saying its a bad idea, they should just continue with the current stats and the leveling to 90 should be a marginal increase in stats. Each tier in MoP should be linear increase in stats. with some balancing changes it should be problem solved.


And then those players will come crawling back lol, like they always do. WoW is STILL the biggest MMO. Those we lose wont be missed

And this is why you don't run a game the size of WoW. Your view of screw them is short sighted and a good way top disenfranchise your player base.

[EaTCarbS]

And this is why you don't run a game the size of WoW. Your view of screw them is short sighted and a good way top disenfranchise your player base.

You don't either.

Blizzard has a history of putting a lot of forethought into their products. Sure, there are always unintended consequences, but that's just life.

They will test the number changes. They will tweak things if needed. Its what they've been doing since 2004.

[Multibocks]

You don't either.

Blizzard has a history of putting a lot of forethought into their products. Sure, there are always unintended consequences, but that's just life.

They will test the number changes. They will tweak things if needed. Its what they've been doing since 2004.

They will tweak if they feel its worth the effort. If you can't solo raid bosses from BC, Wrath or vanilla then I doubt they will care. As long as current raid tier has no problems I'm sure they will be fine with the changes.

[ebony]

i can not even look at HP on my chars its to big 145k or 14500 i know a heal does 2600 so i need how many heals to heal this char up to full?

Right so what char do i need to heal more? Oh wait to late am dead.

how blizzard would change it loweing stats

i got 1200hp a heal does 500 hp 3 heals over full HP wow easy.


pointless stuff in game.. : What all players are forgetting it that there a big jump from 70-80 right so i got tair 7-8-9 but really all we care about is none becouse its old stuff. and ill get better gear at level 80 in wotlk

all there doing is getting rid of the jumps there still be the same overpower @ cap just looks lowers and to be fair if i meens lass D-B server lag then DO IT!

they lower all monsters and bossess if not you anit going to beable to do dungons becouse the hps of the npcs got more then the chars.


and like i said the systems can not keep up with big numbers thats probs why the worlds so laggey now then what it used to be hell a 40man raid on a 56k dailup the servers used to be less laggey then they are now. just to have 00000000000000000 at the end of a spell and to confuse the hell out of you.


And the other thing that noone seems to get is if they do olny change the stats 85-90 by 10hp each level then WE can use tair 13 to kill bossess in MOP and fram the gear from the old stuff and its be easyer then raiding... really think about it!

[valkry]

i can not even look at HP on my chars its to big 145k or 14500 i know a heal does 2600 so i need how many heals to heal this char up to full?

Right so what char do i need to heal more? Oh wait to late am dead.

how blizzard would change it loweing stats

i got 1200hp a heal does 500 hp 3 heals over full HP wow easy.


pointless stuff in game.. : What all players are forgetting it that there a big jump from 70-80 right so i got tair 7-8-9 but really all we care about is none becouse its old stuff. and ill get better gear at level 80 in wotlk

all there doing is getting rid of the jumps there still be the same overpower @ cap just looks lowers and to be fair if i meens lass D-B server lag then DO IT!

they lower all monsters and bossess if not you anit going to beable to do dungons becouse the hps of the npcs got more then the chars.


and like i said the systems can not keep up with big numbers thats probs why the worlds so laggey now then what it used to be hell a 40man raid on a 56k dailup the servers used to be less laggey then they are now. just to have 00000000000000000 at the end of a spell and to confuse the hell out of you.


And the other thing that noone seems to get is if they do olny change the stats 85-90 by 10hp each level then WE can use tair 13 to kill bossess in MOP and fram the gear from the old stuff and its be easyer then raiding... really think about it!
From what I can remember, Nihilum defeated lvl 70 Naxx while in mostly t6, or was it Kara while in t3? Can't remember exactly, oh well. But yea, with less gap it would be possible again.

[zenga]

From what I can remember, Nihilum defeated lvl 70 Naxx while in mostly t6, or was it Kara while in t3? Can't remember exactly, oh well. But yea, with less gap it would be possible again.

Exactly, I never understood the reasoning behind having to farm icc for a year, be in bis 277 heroic, only to replace it with lvl 81 quest greens. If the item lvl & stats jump would be much smaller into a new expansion, many of the probs would be solved.

[pinotnoir]

I cannot remember where I read it, but they wanted to make doing old raid content harder. If they nerf our health, damage, and heals it will accomplish that goal. Recently I have enjoyed farming the old tier sets from the old raids. If they made it difficult to run ancient content they will lose some people. Those old raids are good for farming gold as well. What would the point be if they just wanted lower numbers and used the exact same percentages based on our current stats? The goal is to nerf us. Time will tell what they decide to do.

[zipzip]

[...] I'm also saying its a bad idea, they should just continue with the current stats and the leveling to 90 should be a marginal increase in stats. Each tier in MoP should be linear increase in stats. with some balancing changes it should be problem solved.
[...]


I don't think you've fully understood the problem. There are limits to how big numbers (integers & floating point numbers) can be. They simply CAN'T keep increasing the numbers from expansion to expansion.

Also, by reducing the numbers the game performs better for everyone, since smaller numbers can crunch faster than larger numbers.

[zenga]

I cannot remember where I read it, but they wanted to make doing old raid content harder. If they nerf our health, damage, and heals it will accomplish that goal. Recently I have enjoyed farming the old tier sets from the old raids. If they made it difficult to run ancient content they will lose some people. Those old raids are good for farming gold as well. What would the point be if they just wanted lower numbers and used the exact same percentages based on our current stats? The goal is to nerf us. Time will tell what they decide to do.

How cool would it be if AQ, black temple, ICC, etc etc would all be tuned for the cap level ... plenty of old content I never saw would become very attractive to raid again. I don't really see the fun in 1 shotting mobs. Maybe they should just keep the original instances the way the were so people can keep farming, but add an 'elite' mode were numbers scale with current raiding content.

[valkry]

How cool would it be if AQ, black temple, ICC, etc etc would all be tuned for the cap level ... plenty of old content I never saw would become very attractive to raid again. I don't really see the fun in 1 shotting mobs. Maybe they should just keep the original instances the way the were so people can keep farming, but add an 'elite' mode were numbers scale with current raiding content.
We been asking for that option for years. It's why we finally got heroic deadmines and SFK

[MiRai]

I keep hearing they're trying to nerf us so we can't solo content. Who is "us"? Multiboxers or single
players? Last time I checked as multiboxers we aren't soloing content with a single character. We use
teams of 5, 10, or some other mixed number greater than 1. I'm pretty sure what Blizzard is trying to stop
is something along the lines of players soloing the Lich King or possibly... soloing Deathwing once MoP
releases. They don't want players at 90 (with retardedly high stats) to be soloing some of the newer Cata
raid content that shouldn't be able to be solo'd.

Why any of you think that a drop in stats and a normalization of stats between expansions is going to
crush your hopes and dreams of farming the same shit you've been farming all this time (T1 - T6) is going
to change is beyond me. Were the naysayers really thinking that they'd be farming Heroic Lich King for
Invincible, that Firehawk from Firelands, or whatever Deathwing is going to drop? With as far as
multiboxers have gotten in this expansion's raid content I would say the answer is doubtful.

This is the same THE SKY IS FALLING type of post we see after every single BlizzCon. World of Warcraft
will continue to dominate the MMORPG realm with or without you.

[Starbuck_Jones]

The obvious problem if you look at the graphs is that they grew items on a curve that approaches infinity. That last graph where they did an item level squeeze is better, but still flawed. They could keep it flat but at each expansion, they could jump the level up. They way it looks now items from vanilla raids would out gear all of BC. That's kinda dumb.

[zenga]

I'm pretty sure what Blizzard is trying to stop
is something along the lines of players soloing the Lich King or possibly... soloing Deathwing once MoP
releases. They don't want players at 90 (with retardedly high stats) to be soloing some of the newer Cata
raid content that shouldn't be able to be solo'd.


What reason would they have to want to stop that? As in what objections could they have against those solo kills? besides that it's not like half of the game is able to solo LK.

[MiRai]

They way it looks now items from vanilla raids would out gear all of BC. That's kinda dumb.
It is and it isn't. I say, if someone is willing to take the time to farm all of that raid content for the gear
then the time they spend doing so should help them progress to 70 better/easier/faster. Of course, no
one in their right mind would farm T2 gear at level 60 to progress to 70 at this stage in the game.

Vanilla T3 (not obtainable) would in theory bypass all BC leveling gear and carry you to BC T4 content.
Then BC T6 would bypass all of Wrath leveling gear and carry you to Wrath T7... and the cycle would
continue on like that.

Blizzard stated that T13 from Dragon Soul isn't going to be obtainable through Valor vendors. Who knows
if that will change but, the people with the top tier heroic mode T13 shouldn't have to work their ass off
at the end of an expansion only to have their gear mean nothing 2 levels into the next expansion.




I'm pretty sure what Blizzard is trying to stop
is something along the lines of players soloing the Lich King or possibly... soloing Deathwing once MoP
releases. They don't want players at 90 (with retardedly high stats) to be soloing some of the newer Cata
raid content that shouldn't be able to be solo'd.


What reason would they have to want to stop that? As in what objections could they have against those solo kills? besides that it's not like half of the game is able to solo LK.
Not currently, no; but what happens when stats double again? I don't care if people can solo old content...
I really don't. But people are throwing around the terms "we" and "us" as if Blizzard is in their meetings
saying, "Well, we really hate multiboxers specifically so... let's normalize gear so they can't possibly do this
old content by themselves." <--- That's exactly how Blizzard meetings go down.

I don't know what the real true secret underlying reason why they want to normalize the gear but, why
does there have to be one? Ghostcrawler explained right in the blog article what the reason was...
because stats are inflated and are ridiculous and that's not what they want.

[Ualaa]

In the current model, with the extremely rapid acceleration of gear...
In particular Classic > BC and WotLK > Cataclysm...

An expansion is a complete gear reset.
Everyone starts off on an even and equal footing.

Compare that to say Everquest.
Where your BiS items would be 40% from the current expansion, 30% from the previous expansion, 20% from the expansion before that, and a piece or two from somewhere else.
It would take a newer character, fresh to maximum level and starting the first raid of the current expansion approximately 1.5-2 years of regular raiding in a top DKP progression guild, before they approach equal gearing to someone who is starting the same content at the same time but who also ran maximum level content for the last few expansions.
I had a few friends in Everquest go through this process with Afterlife, back with Afterlife and Fires of Heaven were the top two guilds.
In the EQ model, SSC/TK would be very challenging content and impossible for the majority of players across all servers throughout the entirety of the WotLK expansion; and casual guilds would start to clear that content towards the end of Cataclysm.
(I got out of EQ in the middle of the Planes of Power expansion, it might have been different beyond that point).

The old EQ system was one extreme end of the previous raid gear is still relevant spectrum... and the Warcraft complete gear reset is another end of the spectrum.
I like the idea of a middle ground, where top gear of the previous expansion (Cataclysm) is superior to 86th-89th level gear, but say 90th blues are across the board superior.
That way you get the advantage from running content in the previous expansion, but heroics/maximum level dungeons is superior gearing which everyone needs for the first tier of current expansion raiding... and there is a gear reset putting everyone close enough to the same level going into the first raid of an expansion.

Whatever our opinions on the matter, Blizzard will do what they think best for the game.

[Mercurio]

If you look at the first and second charts in the link earlier in this thread and compare the vertical distance between level 60 and 85 content/gear, you can easily tell that the "squish" they are talking about would be an absolutely huge nerf to high-level characters running previous content.

I know I'm running every single raid I can think of that has decent transmog gear 4-8 times per week now so if they "squish" our ability to run anything in the future, I'll already have all the cool gear I could ever want.

Plus, running all the old raids and collecting great looking gear is super fun :D

[Zub]

Found this on haxxors.com (http://www.hellokitty.com/), looks legit


The revamped stat numbers have arrived!

In the upcoming release, all players will have a health pool equal to 10 times their level : Level 60 toons will have 600hp, level 90 toons will have 900hp.
Tank specs get 150% hp. Level 60 tanks will have 900 hp, level 90 tanks will have 1350hp.
Every damaging spell or move in the game will hit for as much as the player level. Level 60 toons will hit for 60 damage, level 90 toons will hit for 90 damage.
same goes for evey healing spell. At level 60 every heal will give back 60hp, at level 90 heals will heal for 90hp.
Dps specs hit for 150%, healing specs heal for 150%.
All HOTs (and DOTs) have been reworked to have 10 ticks, no matter what their duration is. Each spell will heal (or damage) for 1/10th per tick. For example, at level 60 Renew (or SW:P) will tick for 6 if the character is untalented, and for 9 if the character is specced for healing (or dps, respectively).
We believe this will make for a more balanced game, and remove alot of stress from our realm servers, allowing players to enjoy a lag-free experience!.

[valkry]

Found this on haxxors.com (http://www.hellokitty.com/), looks legit


The revamped stat numbers have arrived!

In the upcoming release, all players will have a health pool equal to 10 times their level : Level 60 toons will have 600hp, level 90 toons will have 900hp.
Tank specs get 150% hp. Level 60 tanks will have 900 hp, level 90 tanks will have 1350hp.
Every damaging spell or move in the game will hit for as much as the player level. Level 60 toons will hit for 60 damage, level 90 toons will hit for 90 damage.
same goes for evey healing spell. At level 60 every heal will give back 60hp, at level 90 heals will heal for 90hp.
Dps specs hit for 150%, healing specs heal for 150%.
All HOTs (and DOTs) have been reworked to have 10 ticks, no matter what their duration is. Each spell will heal (or damage) for 1/10th per tick. For example, at level 60 Renew (or SW:P) will tick for 6 if the character is untalented, and for 9 if the character is specced for healing (or dps, respectively).

We believe this will make for a more balanced game, and remove alot of stress from our realm servers, allowing players to enjoy a lag-free experience!.

Just lol, I hope you were being sarcastic about it looking legit!!

[Ughmahedhurtz]

lol...now that's some funny stuff right there. Let's see where it ends up when it hits beta. ;)

[drarkan]

I think bliz should expect another drop in subscribers after the one year commitment people gave for D3, and before that, a small drop of those who didn't commit. With games like SWTOR and Skyrim, they should be doing things to keep subs, not loosing them.

[Ualaa]

Blizzard is a rather successful company.
I'm pretty sure they always look for ways to both retain subscribers and attract new ones.

I'd imagine they will stagger the releases of Starcraft, Diablo, Warcraft and MMO games, along with anything else they bring out.
The MMO games are subscription based, so the free Diablo with a year commitment could easily become their model for any non-subscription product they release; that way, they get a year of subscriptions from anyone interested in both Wow and any other Blizzard product.

[Gomotron]

We believe this will make for a more balanced game, and remove alot of stress from our realm servers, allowing players to enjoy a lag-free experience!.

Hahahaha meaning there will be mass cancellations?

Sounds fishy to me. Overly simplistic typically doesn't work out so well in the real world. It's going to take a LOT more balancing than that to do a proper squish.

[Zub]

Oh my, I can't believe people actually consider this as potentially being legit, when i wrote it in 5min after a couple glasses of wine, hehe

Then again, i did quote my source, which everyone obviously checked.. since it points to hellokitty.com ;-)

[Multibocks]

LOL nice

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Then again, i did quote my source, which everyone obviously checked.. since it points to hellokitty.com ;-)
I didn't click that link as it was obviously a keylogger.

http://www.l00py.net/images/smilies/angel2.gif

[Zub]

I didn't click that link as it was obviously a keylogger.

http://www.l00py.net/images/smilies/angel2.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouseover :-p

[ebony]

i don't know why players are crying over there 1.5m hp noone going to quit if they do then there e-peen is far to big. there still be a jump from 85-90 but just no big jump from 59-60 69-70 79-80 thats all there changeing.

[Multibocks]

English, do you speak it?

/kidding

If you don't know why, then maybe you should... I don't know... read the thread. Also:

It seems to me that some of those that have expressed misgivings about the squish are worried about feeling 'nerfed' when facing older content, but the item squish shouldn't mean that soloing older raid content will die, necessarily. Though we appreciate the feedback, I think it's safe to say that we wouldn't want anyone to turn their back on the idea purely out of concern for losing the ability to take down older raids solo or in small groups.

Isn't the point of big numbers that they're big relative to the other numbers in the game, though? I can't speak for you, obviously, but I enjoyed putting out big numbers in previous expansions, and I expect that once I got a feel for the new baselines, I'd likely feel the same way in the future as well.

I highlighted necessarily, because this sounds like an out if it does change. They will say something like, "We didn't promise it wouldn't change!"

[Khatovar]

Having an out goes without saying for anything Blizzard plans to, or not to, do. The numbers you're seeing in that original post don't even mean anything yet, they could well decide that's too far and the item squish isn't going to be that big or even happen at all.

We still don't know anything yet. I don't think it's worth buying heavy duty umbrellas over.

[ebony]

Having an out goes without saying for anything Blizzard plans to, or not to, do. The numbers you're seeing in that original post don't even mean anything yet, they could well decide that's too far and the item squish isn't going to be that big or even happen at all.

We still don't know anything yet. I don't think it's worth buying heavy duty umbrellas over.

they said they got to do something when who knows.

[drarkan]

Just think, this will all be for naught since blizzard will have a new mmo and we will forget about this topic and be whining about some other nerf in the new mmo

[BobGnarly]

I understand about the "I feel nerfed" angle to this problem, but something needs to happen, and just like the blog itself says, there aren't a ton of options here (at least obvious ones). If we just let this inflation continue, pretty soon it will be hard to read and process the stats on items, or real-time events on the screen. Imagine that BG with multiple 1,293,398,218 figures flying all over the place.

[Zub]

I understand about the "I feel nerfed" angle to this problem, but something needs to happen, and just like the blog itself says, there aren't a ton of options here (at least obvious ones). If we just let this inflation continue, pretty soon it will be hard to read and process the stats on items, or real-time events on the screen. Imagine that BG with multiple 1,293,398,218 figures flying all over the place.

Not to mention the increased hw and memory requirements for the servers and databases with millions of doubles or longs instead of integers

[valkry]

I can tell you right now, I play twinks, and I still feel huge with my 1.4k crits at 60 (even though I can crit much higher than that, 1.4k is still ncie to see). And I have done over 200k in a BG with my Arc mage to the EFC with the debuff lol.

[Multibocks]

Not to mention the increased hw and memory requirements for the servers and databases with millions of doubles or longs instead of integers

Easily fixed with their mega damage scenario.

[Tonuss]

It seems to me that some of those that have expressed misgivings about the squish are worried about feeling 'nerfed' when facing older content, but the item squish shouldn't mean that soloing older raid content will die, necessarily. Though we appreciate the feedback, I think it's safe to say that we wouldn't want anyone to turn their back on the idea purely out of concern for losing the ability to take down older raids solo or in small groups.

Isn't the point of big numbers that they're big relative to the other numbers in the game, though? I can't speak for you, obviously, but I enjoyed putting out big numbers in previous expansions, and I expect that once I got a feel for the new baselines, I'd likely feel the same way in the future as well.
I figured that they were primarily concerned with runaway stat inflation and simply wanted to reel the numbers in a bit, with no particular concern over the ability to farm old content. What I wonder is... if you are going to flatten the curve from 60 to 85, does it make sense to keep the old school raids? Whether or not you re-tune them for the changes, they're useless to level-appropriate players. No one will farm Molten Core when you can level to 70 before the instance resets.

About the only thing that old school raids are good for is to clear with a few friends (or with a boxed team, or solo) for kicks or to twink someone's alt. It would seem useless to do them for progression. So it becomes kind of awkward. Do you eliminate the raids? Ignore them? Re-tune them for level 90? None of those seem as if they would work.

As for player power, I don't mind either scenario. If my characters have 350,000 health at level 90 and hit for 45,000 with insta-cast spells or white damage melee attacks, that's fine. If my level 90s have 18,000 health at level 90 and hit for 500 damage with basic attacks and a whopping 1200 damage on crits or specials, I don't care. I am curious to see how they deal with the old raids, though.

[MiRai]

What I wonder is... if you are going to flatten the curve from 60 to 85, does it make sense to keep the old school raids? Whether or not you re-tune them for the changes, they're useless to level-appropriate players. No one will farm Molten Core when you can level to 70 before the instance resets.

About the only thing that old school raids are good for is to clear with a few friends (or with a boxed team, or solo) for kicks or to twink someone's alt. It would seem useless to do them for progression. So it becomes kind of awkward. Do you eliminate the raids? Ignore them? Re-tune them for level 90? None of those seem as if they would work.
There are guilds that are dedicated to raiding at level 60, 70, and 80 and people that like to re-live the
older content in its true form (or at least as close as they can get) rather than plow through it at top level.

[Crum1515]

Also, the old raids will be left in as a time sink for people wanting to transmorgifyificate their stuff

[Oatboat]

i would re-sub if they did this. this was one of my biggest gripes.

[valkry]

I for one love old school raids. And have boxed in a hardcore 60 only (no 61+ chants/gems allowed) raiding guild with my priests. It was a lot of fun.

I don't think I will have any problem clearing them if they change the stat values. They are already a joke.

[Catamer]

I quit playing for a very similar reason, for me to spend 6 months of raiding to get all of the best gear I could get only to have that gear be worthless when an expansion came out. For me to have a green item out class my purple from the very first quest in an expansion really pissed me off.

I'm playing a game now that stuff I had 3-4 years ago is still viable and they have put out several expansions. At least I don't feel robbed when an expansion comes out and I bet everyone of you will feel robbed when they nerf the numbers.

[valkry]

I quit playing for a very similar reason, for me to spend 6 months of raiding to get all of the best gear I could get only to have that gear be worthless when an expansion came out. For me to have a green item out class my purple from the very first quest in an expansion really pissed me off.

I'm playing a game now that stuff I had 3-4 years ago is still viable and they have put out several expansions. At least I don't feel robbed when an expansion comes out and I bet a lot of you will feel robbed when they nerf the numbers.
Changed that for ya.

[Klesh]

Seven pages of tears about going back to reasonable numbers. Wow, this slowly turns into WoW general forums.
Seriously, mudflation was bad enough with WotLK (even though its been an awesome expansion), but cata seriously messed up. So it's a good thing they are trying to fix their mistakes of the past.

[Multibocks]

Says the person crying about people crying.

[Zub]

I'm playing a game now that stuff I had 3-4 years ago is still viable and they have put out several expansions. At least I don't feel robbed when an expansion comes out and I bet everyone of you will feel robbed when they nerf the numbers.
The problem with this system, is taht after 3 years you toon is still wearing the same items (or at least some of them).
The feeling of progression is not so great and looking at the same outfit for so long gets a bit old.

There is no perfect solution to this (although transmo will help :-)
At least they are trying, which is good.

[Ualaa]

I personally don't care if the numbers are 150,000 health and 30,000 crit hits, with bosses at 100,000,000 health and raid combined DPS at 25,000,000...

Versus player health at 15,000 and player crits at 3,000, with average raid bosses at 10,000,000 health and a raid combining for 2,500,000 DPS.
There is the same relative strength, in terms of how quickly a player can kill another player and in terms of how a player matches up against the current expansion bosses.

Hopefully everything is scaled correctly/evenly across the levels.
So whatever you can "solo" or "box" now, you'll be able to with the same level of ease/difficulty as currently.

[Tonuss]

I quit playing for a very similar reason, for me to spend 6 months of raiding to get all of the best gear I could get only to have that gear be worthless when an expansion came out. For me to have a green item out class my purple from the very first quest in an expansion really pissed me off.

I'm playing a game now that stuff I had 3-4 years ago is still viable and they have put out several expansions. At least I don't feel robbed when an expansion comes out and I bet everyone of you will feel robbed when they nerf the numbers.
I didn't have a problem with the gear resets, but I think that they were the result of a miscalculation. Prior to the release of tBC, Blizzard seemed to understand the philosophy that "the game starts at max level." In other words, making the gear and stats scale smoothly should not have been a problem. Did they really think that hard core raiders in their late Vanilla epic sets were going to care about gearing up on the way to 70? Of course not; they wanted to get to max level ASAP and then worry about gear. It's even harder to understand because Blizzard made the leveling curve so flat. Many raiders were 70 in less than two weeks.

The problem now is that many players will receive a bit of a shock when they go from 70,000 DPS to 6,000 DPS or when their 112k crits become 2.5k crits. In a game that is based around progression, where the numbers always get bigger, suddenly it feels as if we all took a huge step back. I expect that we'll get used to it pretty quickly, but it's going to happen and it really didn't have to.