gang pvp & mission running

[tchallawow]

hey folks - I'm just doing my beginning tutorials for my triple. However, as I plan I'm looking to do gang pvp w/ my friends but run missions for money (I hear L4 pays out decent).

I've been reading the solo incursion thread below this one, wow! but realistically, I don't think I could do that many.

Anyhow, if you had the situation where your friends want to do gang pvp and you want to make money on the side when they are not around. You had 3 multibox accounts, which direction would you go.

Any comments are appreciated, even shouts of noob :-)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I ran 3 drakes in level 4s for a while before I jumped ship (lol) to Rift. They're cheap, relatively fast, shoot inexpensive ammo and don't hurt all that much if you lose one by accident. If you have the money to fit the more advanced T2 BS builds, that would work as well (and can kill L4's faster than BCs) but it is a LOT more expensive. Whichever you have the skills and investment for. If I had the skills for Paladins or something really good at long-range beam weapons, I'd do that judging by the videos I've watched. (Golems just seem like they're too....close to the edge of micromanagement, and shoot expensive missiles.)

[tchallawow]

how about domi - domi - hurricane?

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I've heard good things about domi setups. I have no experience with them. I'm also not a big fan of drone micromanagement.

[Kromtor]

if you have 3 ships you can make anything work for L4's. drones are not really much to micromanage, for multiboxers they can be less because you can have them all assist 1 guy and then just select targets and destroy them one by one with him while keeping cap stable reps going on the other ships. domi domi hurricane will definitely work and both ship types are of great use in pvp as well, plus the domi is versatile as hell and can do some remote repping, neuting, etc too if you want to get fancy.

[Redbeard]

My biggest issue with the domis (and this is coming from somebody with gallente BS 5 and maxed drone skills) is that the game really F's drone users. If you get disconnected, you will lose your drones. If you aggro additional stuff and dont babysit your drones, you will lose your drones. Drones have to travel around to stuff.

Dont get me wrong you can put out some scary numbers in a domi when skilled but i dont think its worth the hassle. And imagining that across mulitple chars makes me want to hurl. I have since switched over to caldari for missioning and its no fuss.

My 2 cents.

[tchallawow]

well. I do appreciate the info.

My idea is to dual box for pvp w/ some friends and run L4's - L5's w/ 3 triple box for missions and money. Eventually, i could see my 3 going into incursions w/ some help.

In any event, i'm with you, less management is better, so call me crazy, i want the least micromanagment.

So with that in mind, you mention caldari, which flavor would you recommend?

[Ughmahedhurtz]

My biggest issue with the domis (and this is coming from somebody with gallente BS 5 and maxed drone skills) is that the game really F's drone users. If you get disconnected, you will lose your drones. If you aggro additional stuff and dont babysit your drones, you will lose your drones. Drones have to travel around to stuff.
Amen. Having to carefully send/recall/send/recall/etc. to keep them from dying annoys the crap out of me.

[Kromtor]

using my new fleet it has been a while since i had to worry about drones dying cause mine are currently t1 cheapies. but ya that is a real pain in the ass.

[leroyreborn]

I found drone to be easier to keep dps applied to the enemy ships. just warp in first with you main ship ( one set up to tank) argo the room then i jump in my 2 sentry domix put out the sentry drones and have them guard the main ship and they will start shooting away. You have to watch them to see if there getting shot but lest there right there by your ship. You got to baby sit them but if you go with a gun or mission set up have to baby sit them to make sure there shooting some thing. As for missiles are great for pve but when boxxing i found you end up sending way more missiles than needed at a target to kill it.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

As for missiles are great for pve but when boxxing i found you end up sending way more missiles than needed at a target to kill it.I didn't have much trouble with that. Once you've run L4's for a week or two, you get pretty good at estimating how many more salvos it will take to kill something. And really, considering the huge amounts of money you pull in from being able to clear quickly and salvage everything in the mission, even 50% overkill with missiles/ammo is just not worth wasting time worrying about, IMO. If you're using T2 ammo, I might understand a bit, but why, as a multiboxer, would you use T2 missiles in PVE?

[leroyreborn]

I didn't have much trouble with that. Once you've run L4's for a week or two, you get pretty good at estimating how many more salvos it will take to kill something. And really, considering the huge amounts of money you pull in from being able to clear quickly and salvage everything in the mission, even 50% overkill with missiles/ammo is just not worth wasting time worrying about, IMO. If you're using T2 ammo, I might understand a bit, but why, as a multiboxer, would you use T2 missiles in PVE?
if you have all your ship shooting the same target would be easy to count salvos but most the time i have 2 ship per target and one ship taking out the small. have not had any luck counting salvos. But everyone finds some thing that works for them =)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

if you have all your ship shooting the same target would be easy to count salvos but most the time i have 2 ship per target and one ship taking out the small. have not had any luck counting salvos. But everyone finds some thing that works for them =)

Yes, I do tend to focus-fire the high-priority targets first. ;) I also tend to run either an all-Drake or all-Raven team, so heavy missiles are fairly easy to keep an eye on targeting and salvo-wise.

[Redbeard]

I have 5 pilots right now.

I manage the "waste" issue by having different people targetting different things.

My main pilot (in a vulture) and my first alt (was in a drake, just recently got a tengu) focus on the smaller targets and work their way up.

My 2 alts (also in drakes at the moment, just recently got ravens but havent flown em yet) focus on big ships and work their way down.

I find at this point the big stuff is usually down before the small stuff.

At any rate, there is not a lot of wastage because I manage the targets thusly.

[tchallawow]

Other than Kromtor (which counts as 25 votes), i don't hear alot about Apoc combos. Is that soley due to cost?

[Kromtor]

when you're really min maxing the hell out of missions people love ravens because you can choose what damage type you deal which can provide a significant amount more damage vs. whatever faction you happen to be facing for that mission. it makes a big difference when you're solo running missions and you're trying to break tanks but for multiboxers who can kill stuff in a couple salvos the potential for wasting salvos (ie firing a second wave of missiles while you still have a wave headed toward the target that is going to kill it) ends up being a real tear jerker for efficiency nuts like me. drones provide incredible efficiency not only due to no waste but due to the fact that you dont have to pay for ammo when you use drones. probably the only reason i dont run 26 domis is because stealth bombers would rain on my drone parade so easily i'd have too much of an achilles heel.

[Redbeard]

Finally flew my tengu last night in a couple level 4s.

Holy crap I might be changing my mind and doing 5 tengus lol. That thing is so sleek and fun to use.... good damage, good speed.

My focus would have to go from looting / salvaging to just bounty hunting and farming LP, which would be a change of pace.

I like to collect crap in game and like sitting on it for some (weird) reason but i find myself falling asleep when im salvaging so I am considering making this move.

I need to figure out:

1) HAMS vs HML. I know HAMs have range issues but theyre supposed to do more damage. Maybe the range issue wont be such a big deal if i am in a super speedy ship? Need to research it. More damage is good.
2) bonus to kinetic missile... should i just always use kinetic? I am not sure if the boost offsets the penalty for not using the right mission type (but it sure would be a time saver to not have to switch around missiles).

[Kromtor]

im pretty sure when you factor in the kinetic that even if there is a tiny bit of bonus switching to another type for a particular mission the time you spend dicking around doing that and worrying about stocking up on ammo types isn't worth it so you should just stick kinetic.

[Redbeard]

Man I am all for that.

This is going to cut a ton of time off missioning.

Can easily fit an omnitank and only one missile type to deal wtih? Woot.

Any thoughts on the HML / HAM issue?

[Kromtor]

no I don't have any expertise in that. i remember when i ran drakes i preferred Heavy missiles but that may have been because a) i had no prop mod and/or b) i had fit issues. you'd really need a significant DPS boost to justify having to afterburner after all the rats before you can start shooting though but then again it'd save you from wasting volleys as well.

[zashi]

The Tengu should have a prop mod on it anyway, and you

HML tengu! Yes, you'll do more dps on paper (and to the BS'es) with the HAM's, but there's more HP's worth of rats in the room of smaller ships, which the HAM's will struggle with. Carry furies for cruiser+ and precisions for the small things.

If you decide to go the BS route, a raven and/or Abaddon supported by either Domis or Oneiros would be your cheapest best bet.

Torp Raven with range rigs and minimal tank, with a RR domi for drone support. Aggro the whole room with the Raven and launch all your drones & set the to guard. Usually with 2 BS and good drone skills. by the time the Raven is done with the big stuff, the drones are finishing up the smaller things.

Abaeddon > Apoc, with proper skills.
Abaddon+Oneiros vs Sansha will outrun any other two ships that you can put together.

I 5 box, but I solo incursions now. Back when I did missions, I wound up with two separate groups, as I was being limited by travel time between gates.

Let me know (or look me up - Zamp) if you have any specific question about setups, ship combos, or PVP.

[d0z3rr]

Amen. Having to carefully send/recall/send/recall/etc. to keep them from dying annoys the crap out of me.

I dunno, having to manage 3x t2 strips with 4 different crystals across 6 miners is an exercise in sanity.

[Redbeard]

Current plan has reverted to 2 golems, 3 tengus.

Currently flying 2 tengus 3 drakes.

Hoping I can warp in, tengus can start small and work up, golems can take out BSs and then focus on salvaging / looting.

We will see how it turns out.

[andrewdok]

I've got to say Tengus are the best, I run 3 chars. I do 0.0 ratting (havens/sanctums and plexs).
I've tried using Ravens before but 10/10 plex's can really ruin your day with those energy neut/webifier towers mixed w/ scramming frigs.
The speed of the tengus mixed with the damage HAMs have over Cruises versus smaller targets is great. Plus the 100km+ distance of same acceleration gates just ruins your isk/minute with a raven.

I haven't been using any dual-boxing software for this (just a lot of alt-tabbing). About to try iskboxer.. before I shell out the dough for that, does anyone have any other suggestions for good software? (Preferably something that clones mouse clicks as well!)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I was using Octopus for some of this before switching to ISBoxer, and I must say that the accuracy and video feeds options in ISB make broadcasting actually usable in EVE. The biggest issue with EVE is that (as you're aware) most things are done through mouseclicks and the buttons and menu items are TINY.

I thought I read where some folks were using hotkeynet in EVE but a quick search didn't find anything here. You might check with Freddy and see what he says. There also appear to be some results for that in a google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=hotkeynet+eve+online

[edit] Also, to amend my above statement about drones being a pain in the ass, with the feed setup outlined in the other thread (http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=45642), I can actually broadcast clicks accurately enough that sending/recalling drones is now trivially easy. ISBoxer continues to contribute to my enjoyment of the MMOs I play. :D

[d0z3rr]

Question about the Dominix:

That is the ship to use if you want to use drones right? Doesn't it allow you to operate more than 5 at once or something?

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Dominix has a huge drone bay and significant bonuses to drone damage. For T1 ships, yes, it's the only real choice. The Rattlesnake has similar capabilities but obviously suffers from Gank-Me syndrome and different skills focus.

[tchallawow]

I suppose that is the question, ie which boat(s) to use and drone versus x dmg as the primary source of dps.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Personally, I doubt I'll bother with L5 missions, so for most L4's I won't be dealing with much cap neutrailzing. Most of the Caldari stuff is Guristas, which is lots of ECM. Thus, the Dominix choice as drones don't stop shooting if you get jammed. Also, it's wonderfully helpful to be able to switch out your heavy/slow guns (sentry drones) for light/accurate guns (Hobgoblins) to kill off frigates that are annoying you.