BOXability of SWTOR

[47Savages]

I am not in the Beta for SWTOR but the consensus in RevenantGaming is that SWTOR combat will NOT allow multiboxing. :( The lack of an InteractWithTarget mechanism and neglect of Macros darken our future...

I hope that opinions differ outside of Revenant. Anyone out there Beta-ing that sees the possiblity of boxing SWTOR out of the gate?

[drarkan]

Not sure if bioware will actually allow multiboxing, different company, different rules. Hopefully they do and they will have the needed elements though, however I think i'll have to play the game single player just cause its a new game, and I've decided to single box any new game to get the feel for the game mechanics.

On a side note, can't wait to be a sith! :D

[Mosg2]

There's a follow button and an assist party member button. As long as they allow multiboxing we'll figure out a way to do it.

[drarkan]

Hmm, I think I'll send a message and inquire, but follow, and assist is a great start!

[Redbeard]

IWT is a fairly new thing, people boxed for years and years without it. Follow and assist wil get'er done if you really want to do it.

[Crum1515]

I am not in the Beta for SWTOR but the consensus in RevenantGaming is that SWTOR combat will NOT allow multiboxing. :( The lack of an InteractWithTarget mechanism and neglect of Macros darken our future...

I hope that opinions differ outside of Revenant. Anyone out there Beta-ing that sees the possiblity of boxing SWTOR out of the gate?

it works. with assist and follow we are golden. we were just saying in warzones with all the knockbacks and pits and terrain its gonna be a bitch.

[47Savages]

Thanks for the reassurance! *puts the revolver back in the drawer* I will avoid warzones like Huttball, I suppose.

I played two computers side-by-side for two years before I ran into someone multiboxing. At worst I can do that again...

[Lyonheart]

I know a lot of boxers multibox "mostly" to PvP. But i only PvP as a side thing. I have always boxed for the PvE benefits. It will be a bitch to box in the WZs for sure.. just the way they work is WAY different than any current BGs. For PvPrs, you will get the most enjoyment from open world I guess. And you might end up soloing your toons through WZs for PvP gear.

In this game I am only going to two-box. With two of the right classes and well geared companions, you have a full group. Those for you that end up 4-boxing might have an edge if you can get it done.. but for me 2 will do the job. And all I need is passable keystrokes../follow and assist!

[Mosg2]

Please explain how the warzones are so different from BG's in WoW.

[defactoman]

Please explain how the warzones are so different from BG's in WoW.

Apparently the difference is light-sabers and cool voiceover's you'll kill yourself when hearing after playing a month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rblDKlx404Y

[Mercbeast]

I dualboxed over the beta weekend.

It works absolutely flawlessly in PvE. PvP is a different story because most abilities will not trigger autoface. Anything channeled however will follow a target so long as they have LOS when the ability starts.

[Crum1515]

apparently the difference is light-sabers and cool voiceover's you'll kill yourself when hearing after playing a month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbldklx404y


hurrrrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrr i'm a horse

herrrrrrrrrrrrrr derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Mosg2]

@Mercbeast:

WoW doesn't do autofacing either and people have been pretty successful in PvP :) I'm getting on the 4x Sith Inquisitor train I guess. If there's a flashpoint I can't handle 4x I'll just use a companion as a tank and if that doesn't work I'll drag in another player.

They seem a lot like Shaman in WoW. Maybe not as survivable.

[Niley]

Ive been in beta for a bit now, I have few toons with highest being lvl 28.
Playing on hk-47, alliance......derp republic side.
Anyone has a guild that I can join? I'm a bit lonely.

[defactoman]

hurrrrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrr i'm a horse

herrrrrrrrrrrrrr derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


lol

[Lyonheart]

Ive been in beta for a bit now, I have few toons with highest being lvl 28.
Playing on hk-47, alliance......derp republic side.
Anyone has a guild that I can join? I'm a bit lonely.


I'm on that server as well.dark side Baby!

[Niley]

I'm on that server as well.dark side Baby!
well i do have a bounty hunter named rade'k on the sith side too, haven't played him much yet

[Multibocks]

I'm a terrible beta tester. I've logged in maybe 6 times and my highest is level 6.

[MiRai]

I'm a terrible beta tester. I've logged in maybe 6 times and my highest is level 6.
As a terrible beta tester, it is your duty to pass along your beta account to someone else. ;)

[Mosg2]

Preferably someone with a red name :)

[ZooljinX]

so tempted to 4box at start.. 4 Bounty hunters would rock!

[Mokoi]

OK, so some of the information from Revenant has come from me, and I apologize for not sharing it here as well.

Boxing in SWTOR

possible, and doable in certain situations.

PvE - no problems. questing, easy and really good idea as a boxer. Instances should be easy enough with a boxer group. think...

PvP - also ... doable.. BUT with the caveat that, because BGs are 8v8 a 4 boxer has a huge amount of responsibility, and it could be difficult to coordinate with the other half of your team to effectively hold your node, or the ball, or the flag etc.

in swtor, there are a TON of CC abilities, even more than in WoW, and some of them suck. almost every class seems to have an aoe knockback ability, which is usually instant cast, similar to thunderstorm. for any ranged class, this isn't so bad, as you can still kill that person after being knocked back, and it prevents them from being able to aoe you down.

HOWEVER.. in games like Huttball, which is a large, complicated blades edge arena, where you MUST carry / pass a ball to the enemies defensive line, it will be almost impossible to effectively be a ball carrier, as everyone on the other team can split you into 4 parts of the map almost at will. that will be very.. suck.

AGAIN HOWEVER... you get a lot of EXP and currency for even a loss in BGs, and so if you are intent on just getting gear, you can cheese your way to gear by just sitting in a flat part of the map while the raging jedi / sith race towards what they perceive to be free kills and watch them burn as the other 2 people on their team win the match.. so you will lose, but as long as you get the match "achievements" finished, you still get a good amount of currency. PvP gear is pretty easy to get, and for some BGs boxing would be fine. There is a map where you need to defend bomb sites, and attack bomb sites, and I think having 4 coordinated toons would be useful there, maybe even 2 boxers to attack and defend one side each would be really nice.

Anyway.. im not sold on 4 copies of the game, but I WILL be buying 2, so as to lvl effectively (there are a bunch of heroic quests that you can probably 2box with good companions) and then see how PvP is at higher levels when the game comes out.

-Dan

[Mercbeast]

@Mercbeast:

WoW doesn't do autofacing either and people have been pretty successful in PvP :) I'm getting on the 4x Sith Inquisitor train I guess. If there's a flashpoint I can't handle 4x I'll just use a companion as a tank and if that doesn't work I'll drag in another player.

They seem a lot like Shaman in WoW. Maybe not as survivable.

Half the advanced classes in the game have an AoE knock back. This is like half the classes in WoW having an AoE fear that you cannot block.

You simply will not be able to effectively box Huttball. It won't work.

Inquisitors are light armor. If you want to draw a parallel between TOR classes and WoW classes.

Inquisitors are priests.

Personally, I've leveled up a half dozen level 50's in the last month in the proper beta and I've multiboxed with ISboxer on the beta weekends. Right now with how the game is, four boxing is going to be a nightmare.

First as of right now you HAVE TO hardware box, so unless you have 4 computers capable of running the game atm, you are simply SOL.

Second, there is no elegant way to setup assist or follow. You have to brute force it all the way. Right now, this is how assisting works.

Target Party 1, Target of Target.

Following = Target Party 1, Follow Target.

Now if you run 4 clients on one computer (let's hope they make this possible) you are going to run into a situation where you cannot easily just jump from client to client with window swapping and have assisting working off of your new master. Your assist/follow macros will all be set to one character, this means that if you want to run 4 characters and have the ability to hotswap you need 4 different sets of assist/follow macros.

With 2, it is simple, the other guy is always party 1.

Right now there is no chance I would recommend anyone 4 box out of the gate. Two WILL be ideal and 3 if you really have to push it will be a balance between taking advantage of the absolutely fantastic companions, and filling your group up with PC's.

Companions can tank all of the flashpoints in the game, and they can do it as well as a player can in a pure mitigation/threat generation standpoint.

For me, two is absolutely ideal. This allows me to run a tank companion with a healer companion or a DPS companion. In world PvP I can run a DPS/Healer with two DPS companions and I will have extremely solid damage throughput. I can also run DPS/DPS with DPS companions, or DPS/DPS with healer companions.

Interestingly enough, I feel that the ideal 4x PvP team will actually be scoundrels and operatives in the melee tree. Melee works surprisingly well with autofollow tied into your DPS spam key, and the HOTs they get will make it very difficult to down them in PvP. Stealth, super burst, healing, medium armor. They are very beefy.

[Esca]

Merc, thanks for the detailed info about boxing in the Beta. I'm just a little confused about the fact that you say that you've successfully used ISboxer to multibox, but right after that you say that you have to hardware box:


...I've multiboxed with ISboxer on the beta weekends......
......First as of right now you HAVE TO hardware box, so unless you have 4 computers capable of running the game atm, you are simply SOL.........


Could you please explain this a little better? Are you saying that ISboxer will open but that performance is really bad running 4 sessions on a single computer?

[Mosg2]

@Mercbeast:
Ditto Esca's question. Also, there is an autofollow your target button that works on enemies?

If so, maybe melee *will* be doable. It's like IWT but better.

Now, I've been accused from time to time of being a Negative Nancy (Tm) and of being intentionally argumentative for no good reason, but...

You're the second person that I trust that cited knockbacks as basically a show stopper for boxing in BG's. I appreciate where you guys are coming from--You do BG's as a solo toon and get CC'd and knocked all over the place. I also appreciate that (after watching many hours of BG gameplay) Huttball is a really complicated map. At the same time...

I remember when I first saw Thunderstorm, and Typhoon and Death Grip and I thought "Wow, boxing is dead." Of course that was an overreaction but the idea was the same--I was convinced that these would hamstring boxing enough that it wouldn't be fun spending half your time collecting your guys. It isn't, but I don't spend half my time doing it. I spend just a bit of my time doing it.

~~~

One of the differences I've seen between Sith Inquisitor and any WoW caster is how many more insta cast abilities the SI has. As long as you don't get knockbacked onto another level of the map (I'm looking at you, Hutball) then you should be ok. Knocked into a loose formation? Cast the insta heal or the dot while you run back to the main. /shrug

I just feel like it's too early to throw in the towel and say "4 boxing will be way too hard at launch." Some of the brightest people I've ever known are active here on this site and I'm positive that with all/many of them working on these problems (follow, assist etc) we'll have an entirely workable setup for 4 boxing within the first week.

I guess we'll see, but for now I've got super excited face on :)

[Apps]

Merc, thanks for the detailed info about boxing in the Beta. I'm just a little confused about the fact that you say that you've successfully used ISboxer to multibox, but right after that you say that you have to hardware box:



Could you please explain this a little better? Are you saying that ISboxer will open but that performance is really bad running 4 sessions on a single computer?


Bioware has made this very clear... no macros at the launch of the game. This makes SOFTWARE boxing rather difficult, if not impossible.

Of course as soo as someone "says" impossible, some knuckle head will argue it, or claim they have a work around.

Either way, what hes saying is, HARDWARE boxing should work at launch.

[Crum1515]

I believe he is saying that only one instance of swtor can be open per a PC at the moment. macros presence, or lack there of has no bearing on software or hardware boxing really. but please give me a free pass, as today i am hopped up on pain pills and bed bound, so if i missed the point completely please just ignore me today

[Apps]

yup. reading is hard. I missed that comment. Tkx Crum

[Crum1515]

<3

3chars

[Mosg2]

@Apps:
I don't understand how the presence or absence of macros makes hardware boxing easier than software. I spent two hours working in ISBoxer and got a setup that should work fine for PvE:

I have an individual keymap for each character. When that character gets pip swapped to it activates his map and deactivates the others. Each map has a unique "target partyX" and "assist partyX" bound in game. Then, every button that needs an assist has two steps; One step sends the unique "assist partyX" and the next step sends the keypress. Each of these activates on keypress down or up, so you can just spam the button.

It's not elegant but it's about the best that can be done without macros. It breaks down in BG's where you may or may not get to reorder your characters properly.

As long as multiple instances can be opened on one PC we're golden now... And I'm sure Lax can or has already included an option that will force games to open.

[Apps]

yup. reading is hard. I missed that comment. Tkx Crum


@Apps:
I don't understand how the presence or absence of macros makes hardware boxing easier than software. I spent two hours working in ISBoxer and got a setup that should work fine for PvE:

I have an individual keymap for each character. When that character gets pip swapped to it activates his map and deactivates the others. Each map has a unique "target partyX" and "assist partyX" bound in game. Then, every button that needs an assist has two steps; One step sends the unique "assist partyX" and the next step sends the keypress. Each of these activates on keypress down or up, so you can just spam the button.

It's not elegant but it's about the best that can be done without macros. It breaks down in BG's where you may or may not get to reorder your characters properly.

As long as multiple instances can be opened on one PC we're golden now... And I'm sure Lax can or has already included an option that will force games to open.


Already corrected me a couple hrs ago. Thats what I get for scan reading, instead of actually reading..lol

[Mercbeast]

You use the multi computer method for ISboxer. There is a setup guide but basically each character is launched by a separate computer and ISboxer broadcasts to each computer linked via innerspace. You can't effectively drive with anyone but the main character from what I have experienced since you have to turn broadcasting on and that causes all sorts of problems.

[Mercbeast]

@Mercbeast:
Ditto Esca's question. Also, there is an autofollow your target button that works on enemies?

If so, maybe melee *will* be doable. It's like IWT but better.

Now, I've been accused from time to time of being a Negative Nancy (Tm) and of being intentionally argumentative for no good reason, but...

You're the second person that I trust that cited knockbacks as basically a show stopper for boxing in BG's. I appreciate where you guys are coming from--You do BG's as a solo toon and get CC'd and knocked all over the place. I also appreciate that (after watching many hours of BG gameplay) Huttball is a really complicated map. At the same time...

I remember when I first saw Thunderstorm, and Typhoon and Death Grip and I thought "Wow, boxing is dead." Of course that was an overreaction but the idea was the same--I was convinced that these would hamstring boxing enough that it wouldn't be fun spending half your time collecting your guys. It isn't, but I don't spend half my time doing it. I spend just a bit of my time doing it.

~~~

One of the differences I've seen between Sith Inquisitor and any WoW caster is how many more insta cast abilities the SI has. As long as you don't get knockbacked onto another level of the map (I'm looking at you, Hutball) then you should be ok. Knocked into a loose formation? Cast the insta heal or the dot while you run back to the main. /shrug

I just feel like it's too early to throw in the towel and say "4 boxing will be way too hard at launch." Some of the brightest people I've ever known are active here on this site and I'm positive that with all/many of them working on these problems (follow, assist etc) we'll have an entirely workable setup for 4 boxing within the first week.

I guess we'll see, but for now I've got super excited face on :)

There is no IWT and autoface only works if you have LOS when you begin casting a channeled or casted spell, so this is good news for Mercenaries/Commandos and Inquisitors where their primary DPS ability is casted or channeled. Once you initiate the attack everyone will track and if you time it perfectly they will continue start right into their next attack without losing LOS. Problem then becomes once you get blasted via knock back, you have significant down time as you gather everyone back up line someone up and start DPSing again.

The reason why I think Scoundrels and Operatives might very well be the best 4 man PvP team is for this reason.

With the way autofollow works when tied into a DPS rotation, they will swing and then follow you. Each down stroke breaks autofollow, but each keystroke up turns it back on. Operatives have a bag full of tricks. First they have stealth and vanish. They have self shield, healing/hots. They have the ability to long duration mez out of stealth, but they also get short duration AOE mezes. They have CRAZY burst damage that only snipers/gun slingers can really hope to match.

Sages and Inquisitors really have low DPS, in fact they might have the lowest DPS of any class in the game. Take for example a level 50 Mercenary spamming tracer missile. This is a 1.5s casted ability. The GCD is right around 1.5s, I think it might actually be 1.5s. So what you have with tracer missile is a reverse weighted GCD ability because by the time it executes it is ready to be cast again.

Inquisitor burst is based off of force lightning combined with procs that make their next casted ability instant. Force lightning for example at level 50 is going to do about 1500 damage if memory serves over the channeled time which is 3s (I think, it might be more, I haven't played a Sorc since last build over a month ago! ;p ) Tracer Missile hits for about 900-1200 non crit every 1.5s and crits are 1600-2k (Both characters in fresh level 50 pvp gear). Mercenaries can also through a railshot or a heart seeker instantly right in behind tracer and these abilities hit as hard or harder than tracer. Best case scenario for a Mercenary is a 4-5k burst in one GCD. Best cast scenario for a Sorceror is probably half of that in a 1.5s GCD. The difference is, Sorcerors and Sages can DPS forever. They have essentially no fall off in terms of DPS output whereas a Mercenary has to keep their heat level in an optimal zone.

If you run 4 characters, I think that looking strongly at commandos and or mercenaries is going to be a very good idea. They have much higher front loaded damage, they rock tank level mitigation once their DPS is humming along and they can all heal. Additionally, if perspective locking ever becomes possible with the camera in game, you gain access to the absolute beastliest AOE's in the game. Death from Above and Mortar while unusable currently while boxing due to the perspective drifting are probably the best abilities in the game. Four of those sync'd up will kill *EVERYONE* caught in them for the full duration.

I got off point, I wanted to talk about Operatives! Ok, so the way follow works in game right now makes me think melee will be easier to manage and keep on target for PvP. A group of 4 operatives will mow through people lightning fast and the follow range will keep them DPSing on the target. Basically I see it working basically like this. Go up the melee tree, get ranged snare 100% 2s immobalize, work that into a round robin spam every 4s. This means that 6 out of 12s your target will be stuck allowing you to line up lacerate bursts. Throw in your melee stun on top of that and your 4 AOE mez's and you have all the disables you need to line up lacerate bursts which will blow people up.

For you specifically Mosg2 if you are dead set on running 4, consider running a BH powertech or Trooper Vanguard with 3 Sorcs or Sages. The PT/Vanguard is a range based tank, better yet for you however is that this class has a pull which has obvious implications for PvP. You can yoink people off of your Sorcs to set them up to get DPS'd. With a 4x Sorc/Sage setup you are going to struggle in flashpoints and many 4 man heroics that have bosses. With 1 PT and 3 Sorcs, you have probably the best PvE squad in the game.

[ZooljinX]

Tho the whole follow thing with Operators sounds cool it all depends on how far away you can use follow (if there is as people say alot of knockbacks) it would be very painfull as you need to get them all back to you before they can attack again, as IWT they just go attack at once.. and your position doesnt really matter?

So if you get knocked all over the place or just CCd yout slaves will just stand there following you which sounds bad, and too easy to get kited all over the place hehe..

not trying to sound all negative just looking for you'r ideas on melee boxing(as i would love to do it aswell)

[Mercbeast]

Tho the whole follow thing with Operators sounds cool it all depends on how far away you can use follow (if there is as people say alot of knockbacks) it would be very painfull as you need to get them all back to you before they can attack again, as IWT they just go attack at once.. and your position doesnt really matter?

So if you get knocked all over the place or just CCd yout slaves will just stand there following you which sounds bad, and too easy to get kited all over the place hehe..

not trying to sound all negative just looking for you'r ideas on melee boxing(as i would love to do it aswell)

Follow works from targetable range which is just short of visual range.

Just to add, operatives are also ranged. So even if you are not on them in melee, you can be putting out ranged DPS which is virtually 100% instant cast.

[Kris1234]

ok, so if im understanding what I have read right. you cannot currently run 2 or more copies of the client of 1 computer yes?

if that is so, would this work then?
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-run-multiple-versions-of-the-same-program-on-your-pc/

any error messages etc would be appreciated, for finding a solution

[Crum1515]

2 more days of beta and then we are getting a new build.

[Mercbeast]

2 more days of beta and then we are getting a new build.

Well, this build ends. Who knows how long the turn around will be. I've also heard rumors the NDA drops soon.

[Crum1515]

Well, this build ends. Who knows how long the turn around will be. I've also heard rumors the NDA drops soon.

im sure it will be short because they are keeping the forums open and not doing the reinvitation process and they are keeping the distro servers live and hot swapping the new build in.

[Mosg2]

This close to launch it'll probably only be down until the end of next week at the longest. They've got to do a couple practice patches before early access starts.

[Lyonheart]

Should be a short downtime. The game needs more testing ( more than the time to launch permits IMO )

[Crum1515]

i disagree, I think its on track for release.

[Mercbeast]

i disagree, I think its on track for release.

Agreed. Few problems but nothing out of the ordinary.

[eauxfolles]

... would also like to ask one of the testers if it is possible to open more than one instance of SWTOR at the same time?

The comments above are a bit confusing for me.

Thanks!

[Mercbeast]

... would also like to ask one of the testers if it is possible to open more than one instance of SWTOR at the same time?

The comments above are a bit confusing for me.

Thanks!

No it is not. To use ISboxer you use the multiple computer guide. As in you need a separate computer for EACH instance.

[Mosg2]

I thought someone posted that they had two up last beta weekend on one computer with no problems?

[eauxfolles]

I thought someone posted that they had two up last beta weekend on one computer with no problems?That´s why I´m getting confused (and because that´s a rather important question for Boxers) :-/.

[Crum1515]

the only way I was able to get 2 clients running on the same PC was through virtualization, and it had some decent lag. before I tried that, I had emailed them asking why they didnt allow more than one and they basically said they were running reporting software in the background to report statistical data and errors and at this time they had no information as to if they were going to allow multiple instances at launch.

[eauxfolles]

... ok, so hope is still strong in you ;). Let´s cross fingers that software boxing will be allowed.

[Crum1515]

i hope so, I don't see anything as a blatant step to stop us from boxing, but at the same time they avoid the question like the plague if asked haha.

I have high hopes.

[Mercbeast]

Technically it is possible to get two clients open on one PC as of last build. However, these are not very viable options for MBing.

So yes, you can install a virtual machine and run a second copy of TOR but it probably isn't going to run very well, it probably won't even be playable.

Last build I leveled one character to 50, boxed two more to 50 and boxed another duo to 35. ISboxer running in multiple computer mode with two accounts is perfectly manageable. I ran my second character on a 4 year old gaming laptop that cost about 700 dollars then, it was a little slower in terms of loading but it was perfectly playable.

[Esca]

Technically it is possible to get two clients open on one PC as of last build. However, these are not very viable options for MBing.

So yes, you can install a virtual machine and run a second copy of TOR but it probably isn't going to run very well, it probably won't even be playable.

Last build I leveled one character to 50, boxed two more to 50 and boxed another duo to 35. ISboxer running in multiple computer mode with two accounts is perfectly manageable. I ran my second character on a 4 year old gaming laptop that cost about 700 dollars then, it was a little slower in terms of loading but it was perfectly playable.

Were you doing Flashpoints with your duos? If so, what were their advanced classes and which companions did you use most of the time?

[Mercbeast]

Yes I ran some flash points.

I cleared District 7 I think it is called, with a level 50 Mercenary + Mako the healer and a level 50 Operative and Scorpio the melee tank.

The Operative didn't actually level up with the Mercenary, I leveled the Operative with an Assassin. That team face rolled pretty much all the content with the exception of a couple of boss fights in flash points due to agro switching mechanics.

One fight in particular in the flashpoint boarding party has you fight 2 bosses + an elite medic. One boss cannot be tanked because it has a huge damage reflection shield on it, and it automatically swaps it's agro every 10s or so. This made it very difficult to manage tanking and healing with a boss that could basically "global" my operative.

I think in retail I will run one of these duo's, double operatives, Powertech + Operative, Mercenary + Operative, Mercenary + Powertech or the Republic equivalents. Who am I kidding, I will eventually run all of them!

For leveling and doing all the content pretty much any combination that has you with a tank or a healer will work.

Double juggernaughts + 2 companion healers will clear everything I think. Double assassion + 2 companion healers will also clear everything. Jugg+Marauder will probably also clear everything. The only real advantage I see of running double tank over tank + dps is that companion healers do not heal as well as a player. Two companion healers will be enough healing for 95% of everything you do, but, with double tanks you can switch tanks and rotate like that.

Obviously sorcerors and sages will be extremely viable and in terms of what I think the absolute best possible duo for PvP AND PvE will be, they are going to be right there with Merc/Merc Merc/PT. Operative/Operative is the sleeper for me, this coming build I will try to hit 50 with Op/Op before skyrim I think and do a little PvP. Healing wise Op/Op will be INSANE, they also will boast INSANE burst DPS. The only question will be how will autofollow work in PvP when you don't autoface.

[Lyonheart]

Yes I ran some flash points.

I cleared District 7 I think it is called, with a level 50 Mercenary + Mako the healer and a level 50 Operative and Scorpio the melee tank.

The Operative didn't actually level up with the Mercenary, I leveled the Operative with an Assassin. That team face rolled pretty much all the content with the exception of a couple of boss fights in flash points due to agro switching mechanics.

One fight in particular in the flashpoint boarding party has you fight 2 bosses + an elite medic. One boss cannot be tanked because it has a huge damage reflection shield on it, and it automatically swaps it's agro every 10s or so. This made it very difficult to manage tanking and healing with a boss that could basically "global" my operative.

I think in retail I will run one of these duo's, double operatives, Powertech + Operative, Mercenary + Operative, Mercenary + Powertech or the Republic equivalents. Who am I kidding, I will eventually run all of them!

For leveling and doing all the content pretty much any combination that has you with a tank or a healer will work.

Double juggernaughts + 2 companion healers will clear everything I think. Double assassion + 2 companion healers will also clear everything. Jugg+Marauder will probably also clear everything. The only real advantage I see of running double tank over tank + dps is that companion healers do not heal as well as a player. Two companion healers will be enough healing for 95% of everything you do, but, with double tanks you can switch tanks and rotate like that.

Obviously sorcerors and sages will be extremely viable and in terms of what I think the absolute best possible duo for PvP AND PvE will be, they are going to be right there with Merc/Merc Merc/PT. Operative/Operative is the sleeper for me, this coming build I will try to hit 50 with Op/Op before skyrim I think and do a little PvP. Healing wise Op/Op will be INSANE, they also will boast INSANE burst DPS. The only question will be how will autofollow work in PvP when you don't autoface.

I'm jealous that you get to box the beta..WAaaAAaa! Videos and guides please! :) ( after NDA lifts of course )

[Altsoba]

Yes I ran some flash points.

I cleared District 7 I think it is called, with a level 50 Mercenary + Mako the healer and a level 50 Operative and Scorpio the melee tank.

The Operative didn't actually level up with the Mercenary, I leveled the Operative with an Assassin. That team face rolled pretty much all the content with the exception of a couple of boss fights in flash points due to agro switching mechanics.

One fight in particular in the flashpoint boarding party has you fight 2 bosses + an elite medic. One boss cannot be tanked because it has a huge damage reflection shield on it, and it automatically swaps it's agro every 10s or so. This made it very difficult to manage tanking and healing with a boss that could basically "global" my operative.

I think in retail I will run one of these duo's, double operatives, Powertech + Operative, Mercenary + Operative, Mercenary + Powertech or the Republic equivalents. Who am I kidding, I will eventually run all of them!

For leveling and doing all the content pretty much any combination that has you with a tank or a healer will work.

Double juggernaughts + 2 companion healers will clear everything I think. Double assassion + 2 companion healers will also clear everything. Jugg+Marauder will probably also clear everything. The only real advantage I see of running double tank over tank + dps is that companion healers do not heal as well as a player. Two companion healers will be enough healing for 95% of everything you do, but, with double tanks you can switch tanks and rotate like that.

Obviously sorcerors and sages will be extremely viable and in terms of what I think the absolute best possible duo for PvP AND PvE will be, they are going to be right there with Merc/Merc Merc/PT. Operative/Operative is the sleeper for me, this coming build I will try to hit 50 with Op/Op before skyrim I think and do a little PvP. Healing wise Op/Op will be INSANE, they also will boast INSANE burst DPS. The only question will be how will autofollow work in PvP when you don't autoface.

Thank you for sharing your experience.
Would it be safe to say that a possible combo would also be:
Jugg+Assassin+ 2 companion Healers?

I'm asking this because they use different types of armor and if I'm not mistaken, with this combo you'll be able to use any kind of loot (heavy-medium-light armor).

Cheers,
A.

[Mercbeast]

Thank you for sharing your experience.
Would it be safe to say that a possible combo would also be:
Jugg+Assassin+ 2 companion Healers?

I'm asking this because they use different types of armor and if I'm not mistaken, with this combo you'll be able to use any kind of loot (heavy-medium-light armor).

Cheers,
A.


This should work absolutely.

I will say this however, any class composition you come up with that relies on your companions to be the primary healers is going to be the bottom tier in terms of effectiveness.

Ranking the effectiveness of companions it quickly becomes clear that the tank companions not only win the marathon, they are collecting their trophy before anyone else starts.

If you do not run a full four man group, I adamantly believe having a group composition that supports a companion tank in PvE is the winner. I can quickly rank the companion archetypes for you and my reasoning for this.

#1 Melee Tanks. Many tank abilities are PBAOE based (point blank area of effect). Melee tanks have to run up to stuff to hit them, this means that generally they are in range to get the most out of their abilities. To put it simply, right now Companion tanks hold threat and mitigate as well as players can.

#2 Ranged Tanks. With the current tank mechanics, these guys suffer slightly from often not being in range to hit enemies with their PBAOE abilities. I expect this mechanic to be fixed promptly!

#3 Ranged DPS. These guys are generally superior for two reasons, they get on target more quickly, and they avoid any PBAOE lowering the healing load. (These guys are far and away #1 for PvP though!) Both DPS classes put out less DPS than a DPS player will.

#4 Melee DPS. They might actually put out more DPS this build than range DPS, but due to the fact they have to run to the target (can take a bit of time) and then they can take significant damage from AOE, I have to rank them as less useful.

#5 Healers. Keep in mind this is a group rating. When solo I actually prefer healers, even if I can heal myself. The reason why Healers rank 5th in the group environment is simply this, their healing output is low. One player can comfortably out heal two companions.

When I leveled my Operative/Assassin combo I primarily used a ranged tank with a single healer companion. In flashpoints I would be forced to supplement the healing of the healer with the operative.

At the very least I would recommend one healer in your team. So while Jugg Assassin or Jugg Marauder will probably work, Jugg/Sorceror would work better, Assassin/Sorceror is going to be the ideal force user duo IMO. Also, keep this in mind, there will be a flashpoint Hardmode at release. Basically WoW heroics. It might be that at 50 for the Hardmodes a companion tank simply will not suffice in which case Tank/Healer becomes the gold standard. If you only run two Tank/Healer with double ranged DPS companions is the ultimate group. If anyone is planning to run 4, I know there are a few, here are the two groups I expect to be the absolute cream of the crop in PvP and PvE respectively.

In PvP 4x Mercenary (Or drop one Mercenary and drive with a powertech)

In PvE 3x Operative(Sorc's also in this discussion) 1x Powertech.


Mercenaries are quite simply ridiculous. I would argue that they currently reside at number 1 or number 2 in terms of DPS if they are going all out. By going all out they will drop their ultimate DPS potential significantly after about 15 seconds. Stacking Mercenaries counters this, more Mercenaries on a target means they don't need to blast away for as long. Additionally death from above (and the republic analog) is the most devastating ability in the game. Combine this with a passive DR through armor that will hover north of 40% and spike up to around 60% at need, AND they heal. Ya they are beastmode. You could do all the content in the game with 4 Mercs quite easily I think.

Powertechs, and Vanguards are the best tank right now. Ranged tanking doesn't suffer for players like it does with companions.

[Altsoba]

Mercbeast,

This is quite an impressive analysis. Thank you very much for both the awesome content and your time.
I'd love to run 4x too (I'm a former wow 10 boxer) but since no more than one client runs per machine that'll make logistics quite difficult (I have two/three computers).

I believe you're using IS and so am I. Never tried the multi computer setup but I also have no way of trying it with SWtOR at the moment.

I think I'll have more questions for you in the near future but I didn't want to miss the opportunity of thanking you :).

Have a good weekend,
A.

PS: Btw, you'll be playing US or EU?

[Lyonheart]

why not two Sorcs? One healing specd and one dps. They can both still heal.. they both have melee tank pets that do good damage. With two Val Khems.. I'm sure they could handle anything non hard mode. Later you can change one of the tank pets for a DPS.

[Mercbeast]

why not two Sorcs? One healing specd and one dps. They can both still heal.. they both have melee tank pets that do good damage. With two Val Khems.. I'm sure they could handle anything non hard mode. Later you can change one of the tank pets for a DPS.

2 Sorcs would work well as well. I thought you were interested in at least some melee component to your group. For easy of leveling initially ya 2 Sorc will beat Sorc/Assassin.

[Mercbeast]

Mercbeast,

This is quite an impressive analysis. Thank you very much for both the awesome content and your time.
I'd love to run 4x too (I'm a former wow 10 boxer) but since no more than one client runs per machine that'll make logistics quite difficult (I have two/three computers).

I believe you're using IS and so am I. Never tried the multi computer setup but I also have no way of trying it with SWtOR at the moment.

I think I'll have more questions for you in the near future but I didn't want to miss the opportunity of thanking you :).

Have a good weekend,
A.

PS: Btw, you'll be playing US or EU?

Yea, I am running ISboxer with the multiple computer linkup. I think that two accounts right now is the sweet spot in terms of manageability and group effectiveness. Not having the MBing friendly mod support of WoW really reminds you of how simple playing a single character can be when it comes to the mundane stuff like picking up loot, accepting quests, crafting etc.

I'll be playing US with my guild, we want to go imperial, but Republic will probably win out due to population differences.

[Lyonheart]

2 Sorcs would work well as well. I thought you were interested in at least some melee component to your group. For easy of leveling initially ya 2 Sorc will beat Sorc/Assassin.

I think the best reason to start a team of the same AC is so you can do the exact same quests. it would speed things up a tad. But two sorcs have lots of CC..heals..ranged dps..and two bad ass tanks from the start. I have not leveled anything above 20..so I have no idea what order they get pets and what spec the pets are. But I'm sure at some point a ranged pet would be better with the tank pet.

[Mercbeast]

I think the best reason to start a team of the same AC is so you can do the exact same quests. it would speed things up a tad. But two sorcs have lots of CC..heals..ranged dps..and two bad ass tanks from the start. I have not leveled anything above 20..so I have no idea what order they get pets and what spec the pets are. But I'm sure at some point a ranged pet would be better with the tank pet.

Basic class.

All basic classes share the same story, so Assassin = Sorc, Merc = Powertech, you get the picture. This allows you to do a little mix and matching. Obviously the two that stand out are then Sith Inquisitor and Bounty Hunters since they can have both a Tank and a Healer!

Inquisitors get their ranged DPS companion on Tatooine, which is roughly level 24-28. They get their melee DPS companion on Taris which is level 32-36 roughly. They get their healer companion on Hoth which is around level 38-40. They get their ranged tank companion after Voss, Voss is a level 46ish planet.

Additionally, the bonus crafting companion, the Ship Droid, was turned into a healer as of last build to fill the gap for some AC's that don't get access to a healer until the end game. The Ship Droid has infact become statistically the best healer IMO for Imperials due to the nature of Droid Armor. Ever wished you could run around with a healer companion that sported tank levels of mitigation? Additionally all droid armor in the game have tank stats, so they get significant evasion abilities as well.

[Lyonheart]

I'm just about to get the droid as we speak.. i did not know they did that change.. nice.. Vettes DPS is insane though.. from a soloing perspective, I'm not sure what will be better at these lower levels. ( playing a SM atm )