Crashing still occuring post update

[Norrin]

Just wondering if anyone else is still crashing after the update to fix the crashing?
I can't even stay in the game longer 10 minutes before a client crashes.

[crowdx]

Been having this issue this morning using ISBoxer. I did not have any crashes last night when I was playing solo and also when boxing a duo.
This morning trying to 5 box games keeps crashing each client one after each other, about 30 seconds between each client crashing.
Very bizarre

[Norrin]

Yeah I don't see the crash while playing solo.
I totally uninstalled and installed my video drivers (again).
That had no effect, game still crashes.

[molecake]

Same here, i've been 5 boxing using ISBoxer happily all week, I logged in today and each client is crashing.

I thought it was just me, i'm relieved that others are experiencing the same.

Hope they sort it out soon.

[leroyreborn]

same here. i can solo box the game but anytime try to use isboxer it crashes like crazy. put in a ticket have yet to hear any thing back yet. if i hear any thing that can help i'll post here about it

[Smedbox]

I'm 3-boxing across two computers right now without any problems (two characters on one computer, one character on another).

[Krago]

Same problem here.

Can't keep them logged in long enough to do much of anything, very irritating.

[Smedbox]

5-boxing with two computers also seem fine (3 on one, 2 on the other).

[Lyonheart]

damn..glad its not just me but bummed I cant 5 box 8(

[Norrin]

5-boxing with two computers also seem fine (3 on one, 2 on the other).

Smedbox, are you using ISBoxer? When I don't use ISBoxer it works fine. Well the games run fine that is.
I don't think it is ISBoxer causing any problems. ISBoxer has not changed at all in the last few days. And before the update I had no problems at all.

I am running an ATI 5870 graphics card, and it powering 5 monitors. Not that I think that has anything to do with it either.
One thing I have not tried yet though is playing the games on the same crappy low setting that I normally box with. I was thinking maybe it was a conflict with ATI's Catalyst drivers. I did do a complete uninstall of the ATI drivers and reinstall them yesterday. That made no change.

Anyway will continue to play it with it today.

[crowdx]

So just logged in this morning and have the same issue. Both 5 boxing and also duo boxing. I have a laptop with an nVidia video card and my desktop with an ATI video card, both are crashing.
The bizarre part is that the laptop was fine on Friday night and then the following day was crashing. So somthing changed without a notification to cause this issue :(
Very frustrated right now

[Norrin]

Someone on the ISBoxer forums pointed out that the magic time/number was around 15 minutes. I have run 4 tests so far and each time the first client crashes at 14/15 minutes from enter game world.

I guess we can rule out video card though. At first I thought it had to do with ATI cards. Guess not.

I did some research into the actual crash. Looking at the Event Log, the exception that is getting raised is a general access violation error. I just ran a test with the Rift client exe running as Admin along with ISBoxer. I still get the crash.

Well I am out ideas now.

[crowdx]

Another point is that even single boxing with ISBoxer is causing a crash. Whereas single boxing without ISboxer the clients is stable.

[Norrin]

I was thinking maybe it was related to an AFK timer, and that maybe if the client was not focused when that timer hit, the act of setting afk would cause a crash. But I have been setting in game solo (no ISBoxer) for almost 30 minutes and its been unfocused the whole time. Also I never went in AFK so, I guess that got ruled out.

I can't seem to reproduce a crash at all, without ISBoxer running the client.

[crowdx]

I was thinking maybe it was related to an AFK timer, and that maybe if the client was not focused when that timer hit, the act of setting afk would cause a crash. But I have been setting in game solo (no ISBoxer) for almost 30 minutes and its been unfocused the whole time. Also I never went in AFK so, I guess that got ruled out.

I can't seem to reproduce a crash at all, without ISBoxer running the client.

Yeah, definitely an ISBoxer issue.

[Smedbox]

Smedbox, are you using ISBoxer? When I don't use ISBoxer it works fine. Well the games run fine that is.
I don't think it is ISBoxer causing any problems. ISBoxer has not changed at all in the last few days. And before the update I had no problems at all.

I am running an ATI 5870 graphics card, and it powering 5 monitors. Not that I think that has anything to do with it either.
One thing I have not tried yet though is playing the games on the same crappy low setting that I normally box with. I was thinking maybe it was a conflict with ATI's Catalyst drivers. I did do a complete uninstall of the ATI drivers and reinstall them yesterday. That made no change.

Anyway will continue to play it with it today.


I'm running with ISBoxer and InputDirector with no problems. Haven't tried with more than three characters per machine, but I have zero problems. I've stood idle in Meridian for 15+ min, I've been in Runic Descent for 40 min, I've played PvP, no problems.

My two machines are using different OS (Win7 and Vista), but both are 64-bit. The only problems I'm having are that the summon friend dialog box won't go away until you hit /reloadui or re-log and that one machine doesn't get any voice overs even though it's enabled in the settings.

[Norrin]

I'm running with ISBoxer and InputDirector with no problems. Haven't tried with more than three characters per machine, but I have zero problems. I've stood idle in Meridian for 15+ min, I've been in Runic Descent for 40 min, I've played PvP, no problems.

My two machines are using different OS (Win7 and Vista), but both are 64-bit. The only problems I'm having are that the summon friend dialog box won't go away until you hit /reloadui or re-log and that one machine doesn't get any voice overs even though it's enabled in the settings.


You are on separate machines for each character. All mine are on the same machine.
Maybe that has something to do with it. However I think Crowdx has seen it crash with just one client running.

[crowdx]

You are on separate machines for each character. All mine are on the same machine.
Maybe that has something to do with it. However I think Crowdx has seen it crash with just one client running.
Yup, just a single client logged in and it still crashed :-(

[Smedbox]

You are on separate machines for each character. All mine are on the same machine.
Maybe that has something to do with it. However I think Crowdx has seen it crash with just one client running.

As you can see in my post, each machine is running up to three characters.

[Norrin]

As you can see in my post, each machine is running up to three characters.

Even so, for Crowdx and I, it doesn't matter how many we run, even just one it crashes.

What are you running different that has it so you don't crash.

And by InputDirector, I assume you mean innerspace?

[Ozzilla]

Yeah I don't see the crash while playing solo.
I totally uninstalled and installed my video drivers (again).
That had no effect, game still crashes.

Same with my I duo box and keeping having random crashes. Playing solo nada.

[Smedbox]

Even so, for Crowdx and I, it doesn't matter how many we run, even just one it crashes.

What are you running different that has it so you don't crash.

And by InputDirector, I assume you mean innerspace?

Nope, InputDirector (http://www.inputdirector.com/). Each machine has an NVIDIA GPU (but different ones) and both uses the 275.33 driver.

Time to dump your system specs and see what's common/different.

[Norrin]

Nope, InputDirector (http://www.inputdirector.com/). Each machine has an NVIDIA GPU (but different ones) and both uses the 275.33 driver.

Time to dump your system specs and see what's common/different.

Are you running the Developer version of innerspace? I was not until now. I noticed that when I selected to use that, there was an update. I am testing my 5 man team right now. Would be very nice if that fixes it.

Edit: No still crashes.

[crowdx]

Nope, InputDirector (http://www.inputdirector.com/). Each machine has an NVIDIA GPU (but different ones) and both uses the 275.33 driver.

Time to dump your system specs and see what's common/different.
My notebook has an nVidia card (GTX460M) and desktop has an ATI 6970. Both systems are intel based.

[Norrin]

Intel I7
12 gig
Radeon 5870

Lax mentioned he is looking into the problem.

[crowdx]

Intel I7
12 gig
Radeon 5870

Lax mentioned he is looking into the problem.
Your setup is very similar to mine, same chipset and gpu

[Smedbox]

I'm using InnerSpace 1.11 (build 5469).

[Norrin]

I am using IS 1.11 (build 5473)
I just upgraded to 5473 today though.

[crowdx]

I am using IS 1.11 (build 5473)
I just upgraded to 5473 today though.


Still on 1.11 build 5469

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Ouch. When did this start happening? Was doing fine last week.

My setup: 1 main (first PC; NVidia GTX460; Win7 x64) + 4 alts (2nd PC; ATI 5750; Win7 x64). I'm running IS 1.11(5469) and ISBTK 39.1.818.1.

After 11 minutes by the in-game chat, 3 of my 4 alts and my main all crashed within 60 seconds of each other.

W. T. F.

Guess I'll go back to playing Dead Space until things are sorted out. :/

[edit] OK, so without ISBoxer running, the clients are still up (no crashes) after 30 minutes.

[edit2] Been playing (running quests) for 45 minutes now using Octopus and haven't had a single crash. Be interesting to see what Lax has to say about this.

[edit3] And wow...my FPS on my main went up from averaging 40fps to a smooth 55-60. /boggle

[Smedbox]

Have you guys tried with the NVIDIA 275.33 driver version? It could be that other driver versions don't like the combination of recent RIFT optimizations and IS hijacking all D3D calls to display the IS overlays.

Also, it could be interesting to see if you guys also have problems with FRAPS, since it does a similar D3D-hijacking as IS does?

[notole]

Have you guys tried with the NVIDIA 275.33 driver version? It could be that other driver versions don't like the combination of recent RIFT optimizations and IS hijacking all D3D calls to display the IS overlays.



I'm having the same problem on a laptop with a radeon 5800. Don't think its just a nvidia issue. The other 4 computers run just fine.

I've tried everything easy i can think of. Stuff like turning off addons, and removing the files in the interface folder. I was able to dupe the crash a few times by loading different interfaces.. ie /loadui 5box. It doesnt always crash when i mess with that though.

Not sure what else to do, the game runs fine when i don't launch with isboxer.

[Norrin]

I am running an ATI Radeon 5870. So not NVidia here either.
I have not played with no Overlay, though I can't imagine that being an issue.

[Smedbox]

I'm having the same problem on a laptop with a radeon 5800. Don't think its just a nvidia issue. The other 4 computers run just fine.

I've tried everything easy i can think of. Stuff like turning off addons, and removing the files in the interface folder. I was able to dupe the crash a few times by loading different interfaces.. ie /loadui 5box. It doesnt always crash when i mess with that though.

Not sure what else to do, the game runs fine when i don't launch with isboxer.

Yeah, it's not an NVIDIA-only issue, but that doesn't mean that it's not a graphics driver issue. It does make it much less likely, but there can be some bad interference between IS DirectX-hooks and the DirectX usage of the game, which certain driver versions could be more tolerant to than others.

When IS is enabled, all graphics drawing from the game is diverted from going straight to DirectX and the driver. Instead, all graphics function calls will go to IS, which then forwards the calls to DirectX and the driver. IS will modify some of these function calls and add it's own drawing at the end of every frame. FRAPS does this too.

[Norrin]

Yeah I understand driver issues. Was only mentioning that I dont have NVidia.
Turned overlay stuff off and crash still happens. Not a big surprise there.

[Norrin]

I have not tried Octopuss. Maybe I will try that until the issue with ISBoxer gets figured out.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Have you guys tried with the NVIDIA 275.33 driver version? It could be that other driver versions don't like the combination of recent RIFT optimizations and IS hijacking all D3D calls to display the IS overlays.

See above with regards to NVidia vs ATI -- I have one box with each type of graphics card and are (with the exception of the disk subsystem) identical in CPU/motherboard/RAM/etc..


Also, it could be interesting to see if you guys also have problems with FRAPS, since it does a similar D3D-hijacking as IS does?

Hmm...an interesting thought. I don't have fraps but I may download the trial version and see what it does.

[Lax]

I'm working on tracking this down, but when I kill rifterrorhandler.exe and attach a debugger I'm not getting any crashes. And of course, the rift error handler won't share any of its information it will only send it to Trion and there doesn't seem to be a log of it.

So... if anyone wants to try killing the rifterrorhandler.exe processes (there is one per instance of rift.exe) and see if the crashes stop for them too... report back ;)

[Norrin]

I'm working on tracking this down, but when I kill rifterrorhandler.exe and attach a debugger I'm not getting any crashes. And of course, the rift error handler won't share any of its information it will only send it to Trion and there doesn't seem to be a log of it.

So... if anyone wants to try killing the rifterrorhandler.exe processes (there is one per instance of rift.exe) and see if the crashes stop for them too... report back ;)


I will do that now. After my test with older ati drivers fails.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I'm working on tracking this down, but when I kill rifterrorhandler.exe and attach a debugger I'm not getting any crashes. And of course, the rift error handler won't share any of its information it will only send it to Trion and there doesn't seem to be a log of it.

So... if anyone wants to try killing the rifterrorhandler.exe processes (there is one per instance of rift.exe) and see if the crashes stop for them too... report back ;)

I'll give this a shot when I get home tonight.

[crowdx]

Running 4 clients right now with the error handler disabled. Will report back with results

[Norrin]

I still crash at the 15/16 minute mark even with the Error thing disabled.

[crowdx]

Ok, all clients still crashed with the error handler disabled :(

[Smedbox]

I'm working on tracking this down, but when I kill rifterrorhandler.exe and attach a debugger I'm not getting any crashes. And of course, the rift error handler won't share any of its information it will only send it to Trion and there doesn't seem to be a log of it.

So... if anyone wants to try killing the rifterrorhandler.exe processes (there is one per instance of rift.exe) and see if the crashes stop for them too... report back ;)

Perhaps try that packet sniffer tool (pcap or something) and see if the data rifterrorhandler.exe sends out is readable?

[Smedbox]

Also, does anyone know if there's debug setting to run Rift in single-threaded mode? Perhaps it's using multiple threads and there is a race condition somewhere that only occurs on some machines and with the timing difference of IS running.

It could also be a memory leak (GPU or CPU) that causes the machine to run Out Of Memory and crash. Check your CPU memory usage in Task Manager. Not sure how to check GPU memory usage without a GPU tool like PerfHUD or something, and I'm not sure that's system-wide anyway...

[Norrin]

According to the Error logs I have the error is an access violation error.
Not sure at all what or why is causing it.

I am loading up Wireshark now and see if I can get anything from the ErrorHandler.

[Smedbox]

Yeah, an access violation error means a bad pointer - it could be 0 (or a small offset from 0) which could indicate Out Of Memory. If the accessed address is a large number, it's probably not Out Of Memory.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Same crash with rifterrorhandler.exe closed. Ran 16.5 minutes from the time I clicked Play before they started crashing.

[Norrin]

I got nothing from the Packet Sniffer, which admittedly is not my strength.
I also tried forcing the game into Dx9 mode by adding the -dx9 parameter.

Still crashes.

[Smedbox]

Hmm, are you guys using any addons?

[Norrin]

No addon's at all here.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Same here, just the base game.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Have you guys tried with the NVIDIA 275.33 driver version? It could be that other driver versions don't like the combination of recent RIFT optimizations and IS hijacking all D3D calls to display the IS overlays.
I'm running 260.99 on my NVidia and Catalyst 11.8 on my ATI. Just to reiterate, I played for almost an hour with no crashes with ISBoxer unloaded (used Octopus instead). With ISBoxer running, 4 of 5 clients crashed within 60 seconds of each other and all in 11-18 minutes.

I'm sure it'll get figured out soon but considering how many different drivers, hardware solutions and platforms this is failing under, I seriously doubt it has anything to do with video drivers. ;)

[molecake]

I don't think it is hardware specific.

Last week I was happily boxing using ISBoxer on 2 subscribed and accounts 3 trial accounts, after the latest Rift patch, my 2 subscribed accounts kept crashing after 15 mins but the trial accounts were fine.

My trials ran out so I upgraded them to subscribed accounts and now all 5 accounts crash within 60 seconds of each other after about 15 mins.

So i'm confused why my trial accounts were fine until I upgraded them. I made no hardware or driver changes, I just upgraded my accounts.

I have also found out that if around 13 or 14 mins you log out to the character select screen and then log straight back in again on all of your accounts then this seems to reset some sort of timer within rift and you are fine for another 13 or 14 mins, it's a pain but it's not as bad as all of your clients crashing.

[Krago]

I'm running 260.99 on my NVidia and Catalyst 11.8 on my ATI. Just to reiterate, I played for almost an hour with no crashes with ISBoxer unloaded (used Octopus instead). With ISBoxer running, 4 of 5 clients crashed within 60 seconds of each other and all in 11-18 minutes.

I'm sure it'll get figured out soon but considering how many different drivers, hardware solutions and platforms this is failing under, I seriously doubt it has anything to do with video drivers. ;)

Is Octopus still available?

I may need to setup HKN net again as I am taking part in the extra-life.org 24 hour event this coming weekend and I need to have something in place that works.

Running one client with ISBoxer still crashes.

[Ozzilla]

I tried something this morning. 1st using ISBoxer with my 2 accounts and it did crash 13-15 mins in. I then tried the 2 accounts without ISBoxer and no crash. But then again I couldn't play it in proper boxing fashion.

[molecake]

Hotfix #5 is to be released to NA servers at 8.00am PDT.

No Details of what's in the Hotfix yet, but fingers crossed :)

http://community.riftgame.com/en/

[Lax]

Inner Space build 5474 may correct this issue. I have it available as of now as a development build. To try it out, right click IS and select Patcher, check "Download development (test) patches" then close and restart Inner Space.

[Lax]

I ran with 5474 for a good 45 minutes this morning, and someone else in the ISBoxer chat room has been going for 30+ minutes now as well. I've moved this build live, you can patch to it just by restarting Inner Space

[crowdx]

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Krago]

I ran with 5474 for a good 45 minutes this morning, and someone else in the ISBoxer chat room has been going for 30+ minutes now as well. I've moved this build live, you can patch to it just by restarting Inner Space

You da man!

Can't wait to try this out tonight.

[crowdx]

So the obvious question would be, why did some people run fine whereas others were having the crashing issue?
:)

[Norrin]

Yeah that has me baffled as well.

[Norrin]

Been running the new update and been in game with my smaller team and no crash.
Been about 40 minutes now.

[molecake]

Been playing for a couple of hours now and no crashing.

Thanks Lax

[Ughmahedhurtz]

So, what was the root cause?

[Norrin]

I am curious to know as well.

[leroyreborn]

same been on for couple hours not and all smooth and running great. thanks for the fix =)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Only played for half an hour tonight but no issues.Thanks, Lax.

[Krago]

Was logged in and/or played for about 4 hours last night, no issues at all.

Thanks again, Lax.

[Lax]

So a funny thing happened on the way to fixing this bug.

2 of my 3 accounts were suspended for 24 hours, about a week apart from each other. So like a week and a half ago I got a suspension email from Trion that I thought must have been a phishing attempt, until I tried to log in to be sure and the game wouldn't let me.

Knowing that I hadn't done anything other than fix this crash, and that the question of whether ISBoxer is allowed or not had already been answered some time ago, I started wondering if my account had been stolen, or if since their email said it was an "in-game report" that someone might have reported my 3 year old son when I let him play in the newbie area, etc. Sadly when I tried to verify what it was that got me suspended all I was able to confirm (over the course of several emails) was the timeframe (being while I fixed this crash) and that they said it was indeed my own IP address (so it wasn't stolen). Beyond that all they told me was that their logs were right and that the action would not be reversed, but they did specifically tell me that ISBoxer is fine and insisted that's not what I was suspended for. Well thanks, jerks.

This morning I checked one of my non-primary e-mail addresses and, herp derp, another suspension email from a few days ago! Same thing, second account, a week later, same incident. I haven't even logged into RIFT since the last email exchanges had left me angry, so I know damn well that it's not from anything new.

So once again I sent them an email. Here's what happened this time!



http://i.imgur.com/awx28.png

(note: that is not an "endorsement", but this just goes to show that multiboxing is acceptable behavior and ISBoxer is not prohibited)

Thanks GM Morgana! :)

[Smedbox]

Perhaps you had Visual Studio or another debugger attached and they detected that?

[Lax]

I was indeed debugging and I had even sent in a crash log at one point, I'm not too worried about it.

[Lyonheart]

That is nice to see. I'm sure the GMs get a TON of people emailing them and saying they did nothing wrong..when in fact they were cheating or exploiting in some way. So they just treated you as one of the numbers. Your continued pursuit of an answer made them dig deeper and it all turned out good in the end. Whats best about it is now we have some clear cut documentation from a GM stating they are fine with ISBoxer AND MBing in general. NICE!