New management discussion

[Svpernova09]

Rawr

[Crum1515]

ah... listen a while and stay

Gratz dude

[Vecter]

Great to have ya aboard Lax.

[Lyonheart]

Welcome! I knew the dark side would win out in the end! JK!!

[Gurblash]

Cant wait to see what changes are in store! Welcome aboard Mr. sLax

[Eloxy]

Great with new leadership :) Gogo lax

[Souca]

Grats Lax!

- Souca -

[Obsidian7]

Congrats Lax :)

[Oatboat]

multiboxing websites now huh?
congrats

[Poyzon]

This change is good. I approve.

/back to lurking

[David]

Hail to the king baby.

[Tonuss]

When I saw the topic heading, I got nervous. Then I saw who was taking over. Sounds good.

Many, many thanks to Ellay for the site and the inspiration. Good luck with whatever is next for you (which hopefully includes multiboxing!).

Best wishes to Lax in taking over, and to him and the rest of the awesome folks who keep the wheels greased.

[zenga]

I guess in any other similar situation I wouldn't like it when a company becomes the owner of an 'independent' site. But it's not like you have pushed your product or abused this site to promote your stuff, so the community has enough faith in you for it not to really matter. As long as nothing changes, there is little reason to be unhappy :)

[Apps]

Now that you mention it, I havent seen Ellay recently.

Lax, without a doubt, can handle the task. Ellay and company have put in much time and effort to getting the site, community, projects, etc.. so much that DB.com is a thriving community worth passing a torch to begin with. I think a tremendous bit of appreciation and grattitude is definitely due. Id expect to see some of the "old crew" here from time to time yet still.

Being a results oriented individual, I think Lax is the proper candidate and successor. Time will tell how the train maintains its track, going further. I look forward to it.

Lax, those guys teed up for you, you just need to hit it... :)

Congratulations, and good luck to both parties!

PS-yay no adds!

[keyclone]

3. The Keyclone link in the header is gone -- this isn't because I'm eradicating every non-ISBoxer product or link from the site, but because a) Rob/Keyclone is no longer an active participant in the site (for some time now) and the software is no longer updated, and b) for the same reason as #1 and #2, these revenue streams are no longer necessary to support the site

been lurking for a while... boxing daily. why update something that's not broken?

so much for 'community'

LOL

[Svpernova09]

Now that you mention it, I havent seen Ellay recently.

Lax, without a doubt, can handle the task. Ellay and company have put in much time and effort to getting the site, community, projects, etc.. so much that DB.com is a thriving community worth passing a torch to begin with. I think a tremendous bit of appreciation and grattitude is definitely due. Id expect to see some of the "old crew" here from time to time yet still.

Being a results oriented individual, I think Lax is the proper candidate and successor. Time will tell how the train maintains its track, going further. I look forward to it.

Lax, those guys teed up for you, you just need to hit it... :)

Congratulations, and good luck to both parties!

PS-yay no adds!

To be clear. The only party that was involved with DB yesterday, that is no longer involved today, is Ellay. Myself and the rest of the mods are still here.

[Svpernova09]

been lurking for a while... boxing daily. why update something that's not broken?

so much for 'community'

LOL

A community you abandoned. People may have listened to your snide remarks a year ago, but not now.

[Gurblash]

Not gonna lie Rob... you've been MIA for a LONG time. Your software is not updated (supported??).

[Ashley]

Let's get this community pumpingggggggggggggggggggg

[Vecter]

Lets keep the conversation on track and focused on where it should be, that's a new beginning and many new opportunities for our community.

[keyclone]

A community you abandoned. People may have listened to your snide remarks a year ago, but not now.
you're call. my definition of community and yours seem to differ. mine would be more all inclusive, and less single-product-promotion. hence the reason i never made a competing forums and point to the d-b forums from the keyclone site... community building

[keyclone]

Not gonna lie Rob... you've been MIA for a LONG time. Your software is not updated (supported??).
real-life health issues take priority over monitoring a forum.

as for updating keyclone, i've used it daily for a while... no updates needed

when was the last time you got a keyboard driver update?

i'm only here now as i've received calls of people complaining .. so i logged in to see

[Lax]

Hi Rob, welcome to dual-boxing.com!

I don't know what you're QQing about, you have links to your site all over dual-boxing.com and you're not paying anything for it -- you don't even have to pay affiliate fees to Ellay anymore in exchange for your advertising. The only difference from before is that your link in the header is no longer there.

You're being a jerk over nothing.

[Fat Tire]

nvm

[Fat Tire]

Hi Rob, welcome to dual-boxing.com!

I don't know what you're QQing about, you have links to your site all over dual-boxing.com and you're not paying anything for it -- you don't even have to pay affiliate fees to Ellay anymore in exchange for your advertising. The only difference from before is that your link in the header is no longer there.

You're being a jerk over nothing.

Then why remove the link? If it doesnt hurt anything.

[Lax]

Then why remove the link?
That question was answered in the original post.

Guys, let's not pretend this is something it's not. Keyclone was paying Ellay, in exchange for links. Ellay needed/wanted that money to run the site. I don't need that money to run the site. The link in the header is no longer needed, just like the donate link and the ads.

You're not helping yourselves by acting like this over the link in the header.

[Bollwerk]

Not gonna lie Rob... you've been MIA for a LONG time. Your software is not updated (supported??).
Nothing against Rob, as I used Keyclone happily for quite a while, but this quote is correct.

If you are the author of a piece of software used heavily here and you go from being very active to only lurking and you stop updating your software with either new features or bug fixes, then you give people the impression you've abandoned your product.

I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall seeing a message from Rob saying he was going to focus on other pursuits (i.e. stop updating Keyclone). Then one day recently, out of the blue, Rob posts again that he has a new addon he was working on. That's fine, but it would have been nice to at least let people know you were moving on to another project before disappearing for however many years/months it was. After all, this community DID put money in your pocket. =)

[Bollwerk]

real-life health issues take priority over monitoring a forum.

as for updating keyclone, i've used it daily for a while... no updates needed

when was the last time you got a keyboard driver update?

i'm only here now as i've received calls of people complaining .. so i logged in to see
RL taking priority is perfectly understandable. Just would have been nice to see a note saying you were going to stop adding features to Keyclone (updates were not always just bug fixes) and were going to be less active in the community. Something simple like "Hey guys, I need to focus more on RL, so I won't be around here much anymore and I am happy with where Keyclone is at, so I won't be updating that anymore." =)

[Fat Tire]

That question was answered in the original post.

Guys, let's not pretend this is something it's not. Keyclone was paying Ellay, in exchange for links. Ellay needed/wanted that money to run the site. I don't need that money to run the site. The link in the header is no longer needed, just like the donate link and the ads.

You're not helping yourselves by acting like this over the link in the header.

Right, I understand. It sometimes tough to get people to admit to the truth when they want to be all PC about it as the way I read it in your initial post.

[keyclone]

Guys, let's not pretend this is something it's not. Keyclone was paying Ellay, in exchange for links. Ellay needed/wanted that money to run the site. I don't need that money to run the site. The link in the header is no longer needed, just like the donate link and the ads.

You're not helping yourselves by acting like this over the link in the header.

yes, i was paying Ellay for every db-keyclone... it was the only source of revenue (not counting the $40 from ads) for the site for years (until the last year?). it kept the community alive and the site funded. money from keyclone should actually fund the site for a few more years. but that's up to ellay. what he does with that is up to him.

my only balk is the term 'community' while removing a link to a competing product. that's funny.

and the reason is ... it hasn't been updated? something needs updating? should we remove the d-b banner as well? it hasn't been updated in years.

i receive numerous calls each week and i always ask if they'd like something added. some having used it for years. the answer is always 'it does everything i need'. i'd agree, as i use it myself.

[Crum1515]

This conversation needs to be taken to another media other than this thread. I use both IS and Keyclone and dont like it when daddy and daddy fight.

We are seriously off topic here.

[Lax]

If you're wanting to pay me in exchange for a link in the header, just as I had to pay Ellay and you had to pay Ellay when he was the owner, then you can talk to me about that. This isn't the right way to begin those discussions.

[thefunk]

rob thank you once again for an amazing piece of kit. Would have never made it to 5 boxing without it!!! The basic functionality still works even now.

I hope the health issues are resolving themselves.

As for links, Lax's call however an easier way to manage new starters would be a wiki type page showing all available software and hardware options with costs, features and how long to set up etc...

I'm looking forward to the same quality and open forum that we had under Ellay's management with Lax!

[keyclone]

RL taking priority is perfectly understandable. Just would have been nice to see a note saying you were going to stop adding features to Keyclone (updates were not always just bug fixes) and were going to be less active in the community. Something simple like "Hey guys, I need to focus more on RL, so I won't be around here much anymore and I am happy with where Keyclone is at, so I won't be updating that anymore." =)

i did post that events occurred in my life that required more attention. after 3 years and 4k+ posts, i figured people could get by.. otherwise they'd call (which they do).

i didn't say i was no longer updating keyclone.. i would update when needed. some updates in other products are clearly over the line, and i wouldn't put those in (one key - one action)

as for moving on to other projects... an addon is trivial and i make those nightly for myself (the new one being an auto-gear check for bgs identifying the lamers). they aren't projects. AMX was very useful so i wrapped it up and offered it to the community.

[Ashley]

It's only a fucking link jeeze.

I'm sure more people found out about both your products through word of mouth, or more importantly the "how the fuck do I multibox" thread than seeing a random link in the header they have no association with.

[keyclone]

I'm sure more people found out about both your products through word of mouth, or more importantly the "how the fuck do I multibox" thread than seeing a random link in the header they have no association with.

definitely.

removing the link is more symbolic then anything.
saying so in the same breath as promoting 'community' is just hilarious

[Ashley]

Forums and other online communities are way different than your local city hall or whatever with statues of notable people/events.

I'm sure if you stuck around a bit more, or poked your head in a few times to give us an update on Keyclone, this argument wouldn't be happening.

Now you're just making an ass out of yourself by bitching over something so trivial rather than being mature, accepting where people are coming from and their reasons like an adult.


I've even told people to switch to ISBoxer because the future of Keyclone was uncertain.

[Gurblash]

Rob we are still in IRC if you'd like to come talk about it. Hugs are free.

[Fat Tire]

Ellay made this site for boxers who loved boxing and while he fell out of love of boxing long ago he did had some mods step in and they have done a great job. My questions is now that this site is owned by a business for profit, are the mods now compensated? Just curious

I guess I am a little disappointed we never got this thread from ellay. He built a community for boxers to have a place to call home. Sure he of course didnt have to build the site in the first place and maybe feels like he doenst owe anybody anything. I dont know I just feel kinda meh about it. I hope ellay enjoys the cash lax paid for the site. I just feel like he took the money and ran, off the back of the community he greatly helped build while having someone else take any heat that might come from it.

[Vecter]

Ellay made this site for boxers who loved boxing and while he fell out of love of boxing long ago he did had some mods step in and they have done a great job. My questions is now that this site is owned by a business for profit, are the mods now compensated? Just curious

I guess I am a little disappointed we never got this thread from ellay. He built a community for boxers to have a place to call home. Sure he of course didnt have to build the site in the first place and maybe feels like he doenst owe anybody anything. I dont know I just feel kinda meh about it. I hope ellay enjoys the cash lax paid for the site.

There are very few members that have any connection to Ellay. Most have no idea who even owns this site, most just know Svpernova runs it because he is a bad ass. Time to move on and hope the community becomes a more active, fun place to be. Changes will happen, that's just the nature of the beast. Feathers will get ruffled, again just the nature of the beast.

Lax has every right to do what he wants now that he owns this site. We hope and put trust in him that he will not change what is the core of this community, the sharing of ideas and openness to discuss everything about boxing. Let's give it some time and see where the road takes us, and as a community band together to keep it going.

[Apps]

To be clear. The only party that was involved with DB yesterday, that is no longer involved today, is Ellay. Myself and the rest of the mods are still here.

Ahh. Well that definetly make for a better decision. And very good sense. thanks Svper.

[Svpernova09]

Ellay made this site for boxers who loved boxing and while he fell out of love of boxing long ago he did had some mods step in and they have done a great job. My questions is now that this site is owned by a business for profit, are the mods now compensated? Just curious

Right this second? No. To my knowledge none of the mods are being compensated for being mods. That's not to say that couldn't change at any point in time. We're in a unique point because before, Ellay didn't have the cash to support paid moderators. I did this because I wanted to do it FOR the community. If Lax wants to pay moderators, by all means. The important thing to remember here is the site is no longer being run by someone who has no long term, vested interest in multiboxing. Ellay did it for the community, Lax is doing it for the community as well. The main difference here is now there is an actual multiboxing product behind the site. Make no mistake, there was a product before, it was Ellay's wallet. I don't mean that negatively towards Ellay at all. I consider Ellay a friend and we've had multiple occasions to do business outside of dual-boxing.com He was promoting and using advertising on a relevant site to sustain that site and pad his income. People do that every single day.


I guess I am a little disappointed we never got this thread from ellay. He built a community for boxers to have a place to call home. Sure he of course didnt have to build the site in the first place and maybe feels like he doenst owe anybody anything. I dont know I just feel kinda meh about it. I hope ellay enjoys the cash lax paid for the site. I just feel like he took the money and ran, off the back of the community he greatly helped build while having someone else take any heat that might come from it.

Ellay is still an admin here. I'm sure he's not going to stop viewing the site. Ellay built this site because he wanted a place like this to come lurk. He's gonna keep lurking. Don't think of this as Ellay cashing a huge amount of chips in and bolting for the door. Think of this as Ellay being compensated for his investment and passing the site on to someone who has the funds and motivation to do more with it.

If it wasn't Lax, it would have been me. But even I don't have the weight to put behind the site that Lax does.

[Oatboat]

You guys need to quit fearing Change.

Keyclone and any legitimate software will still be discussed. I use ISB and Keyclone, both have their uses and it would be a shame to lose any future help on this site because we get a little offended over the internet.

[Apps]

Bah! I refuse to talk about this until shit changes aroun... oh wait.

(wink Svper)

[Shodokan]

I have wanted to make a post about the community for a few days now, but i really am not going to go into things much.

First off I'd like to say congrats LAX. You've been extremely active and helpful to everyone.

Second off I'd just like to say this is the most active thread on the forums in a decent amount of time... and that the only sense of community you get is if you become a regular in IRC with everyone else who is a "regular." But even then a majority of those people do not post a lot.

Is it just that there is very little to say? Not wanting to share information? Not enough boxers that care about talking to others that are socially inept enough to even use this place as it is meant to be used?

Rob talks about the sense of community...and from my perspective there is almost none. Just because there is a message board to house us does not mean we are a real community.

There are times i will log in and see 1-2 new posts... if that. Then there will not be another for like 6 hours. I know people have lives and stuff... but from a community perspective it just hasn't been the same since WoTLK ended.

[Tonuss]

Bah! I refuse to talk about this until shit changes aroun... oh wait.

(wink Svper)
Heh.

As for community, that's one of those organic things that has to develop naturally. It can't be forced, and it can't be built upon demands and wishes. There are approximately elevanty bajillion communities on the web (give or take a dozen). Some are large and active, some are tiny and dead. This community is somewhere in between. All in all, that isn't so bad.

[Bigfish]

Some of us have gone on to other games. Not really much fun seeing everyone talk about WoW when I'm playing FFXI, nor is it really worth posting a 0-reply topic for a game not many others play. Which is kind of odd given the number of boxers in FFXI.

Part of it is also that in growing so big, it's much easier to get boxing info. I recall the heyday being when people were trying to figure things out. Well, things have been figured, what now?

Not a whole lot of new stuff coming out at the moment, though in the future, maybe. I know RIFT was pretty unfriendly as far as boxing goes, and the wow dev staff is trying to avoid the whole binding a rotation to one button thing.

[Shodokan]

Heh.

As for community, that's one of those organic things that has to develop naturally. It can't be forced, and it can't be built upon demands and wishes. There are approximately elevanty bajillion communities on the web (give or take a dozen). Some are large and active, some are tiny and dead. This community is somewhere in between. All in all, that isn't so bad.

You are right in that respect, but I think you give the activity here a bit too much credit to be put above tiny and dead. =P (activity wise)

Theres just far too many lurkers.

[Igg]

Well thing is, once everyone gets their setup up and running, there's little cause to come here to have a "community" when wow provides one in game who's far more engaging.

[Alemi]

Well thing is, once everyone gets their setup up and running, there's little cause to come here to have a "community" when wow provides one in game who's far more engaging.

^ This. Long gone are the days when we had to try to form a community across multiple realms to post on while we ran to a battlemaster in Shattrath to queue and we'd alt-tab to these forums to talk with each other or gang up on the official forums multiboxing threads that cropped up as the influx of new boxers rose. We'd PM back and forth about strategies, etc. Heck, I still have old pm's from the start of wrath on how I multiboxed Occulus back in the day.

Now, I have boxing friends RealID'd on other servers, and there are 3 other boxers on Coilfang now (which, admittedly, Coilfang has always been a wierd realm in that we had 3 during BC - and that we didn't organize or know each other until after the fact).

And to echo what's been said before, there's little theorycrafting and fun discussions going on anymore, as a lot has been already hashed out. What I see are a majority of topics on two ends of the spectrum - the typical "How do i get my characters to follow" posts by newbies who can't use the search function (for this, I greatly miss Fursphere to nip these in the bud) or the opposite end of pure e-peen stroking and general douchebaggery I'd expect from the battle.net forums.

Editting: not saying that the community is bad, just that it's changed and a lot of the "old timers" have/are moving on and a new batch is coming in. Hell, I think a bunch of the old timers who still post aren't even boxing a majority of the time?

Change is always good.

[ebony]

Hey lax welcome to the owner. your support has been great and you have a lot of free time on your hangs (wait if the in laws not stessing you out :D) it be nice to see some new themes a few extra stuff forums can do a lot and have a lot fun of with.

Ok so his the owner of Isboxer, I could think of someone else buying it for a cash pit and we all know who that is. that bans other software. edits topics and does a lot of over stuff,

Its a Link that is all think about he could Ban the word Keyclone. He could Remove the owner ban him and delete any topics then you kick off not at a kick being removed. just my cent.

( i know this is old news now but my nets been down all day.)


And i was one of many that think that Svpernova09 owning the site/irc ((running it from 486 in his basement running windows 3.11 :D with 4mb of ram :D))

[Kicksome]

Grats Lax. It's good to know that db.com has an owner that's in it for the long term.

Very positive news for everyone here I think. I used to have a forum with a lot more traffic than db.com, but after a few years I got distracted with other businesses and it just fell apart, the mods can only do so much. Looking back, it would have been the right move to hand it over when I lost interest. I'm sure it would still be alive and kicking today.

Great job to all the mods who kept everything going up to this point, and Ellay for starting this awesome site and passing the torch when the time was right.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Considering we are a "vanishingly small minority" of gamers, is it at all surprising that there isn't an incredibly high rate of posts? I'd rather maintain our relatively high signal-to-noise ratio than have the inane "U JELLY?" posts cluttering things up. Smalltalk is what IRC/IM/in-game chat is made for, IMO.

I don't expect much to change around here, to be honest. Except for those few drama queens that regularly make mountains out of molehills. ;)

Anyway, congrats Lax. And thanks Ellay for giving us a place to hang out. /salute

[Eloxy]

what ugh said

[Zub]

Thanks Ellay (and other involved at the time) for creating this community.

I'm excited to see what Lax will bring to the website, i know he's capable, but i AM concerned about this website (or the coming one) becoming a ISBoxer front-shop, just like mb.com is a frontshop for pwnboxer.
Clearly that would not make it an open community forum, but simply a product forum like the one on isboxer.com (are those forums going to merge btw?)

Regarding the KC link on top, i tend to see Robs point. By leaving only the ISB link you explicitely say that this site recommends firstly this product, where really it should have a link to the list of all boxing products like in the wiki i think. maybe sorted by number of users or a star rating or whatever

Then again, it's your site Lax, your rules i guess. but it's a fine line to walk

[Acidburning]

I knew it, Lax = Steve Jobs.

You didn't have to quit your job to multibox!

grats on the transfer, keep up the good work (and forum mods).

acid

[jstanthr]

Thanks Ellay (and other involved at the time) for creating this community.

I'm excited to see what Lax will bring to the website, i know he's capable, but i AM concerned about this website (or the coming one) becoming a ISBoxer front-shop, just like mb.com is a frontshop for pwnboxer.
Clearly that would not make it an open community forum, but simply a product forum like the one on isboxer.com (are those forums going to merge btw?)

Regarding the KC link on top, i tend to see Robs point. By leaving only the ISB link you explicitely say that this site recommends firstly this product, where really it should have a link to the list of all boxing products like in the wiki i think. maybe sorted by number of users or a star rating or whatever

Then again, it's your site Lax, your rules i guess. but it's a fine line to walk

Gratz to Ellay and Mr. Lax from me as well. and i agree with Zub's post. That is just my personal opinion take it as you wish. I agree that it would be awesome if all the dev's could work together and let their products stand for themselves, they all have their strong suits, i use keyclone and isboxer both, certain teams get is, and others get kc, and they are situational in themselves, but like i said, it would be awesome if u guys could work together and come to a common ground and let us "the community" weigh it for ourselves. but anyway, #endrant.

[Yeti Detective Agency]

Cool beans and good luck with the server migration!

[Gomotron]

Come on, people. This thread is so boring.

All it's doing is pissing a few people off.

Back on track:

Congrats Lax. Do a good job! Or else!

[ElectronDF]

I know I love this site and would feel a loss without it. Not sure what people would get bent out of shape over the word community. I enjoy reading things other people are doing. I try to inject my thoughts so other people can think about locks or hunters or 5 computers or Mac/PC boxing or HKN. To me a place to read and share is my version of a community. Everyone is different though.

I don't mean to be a downer, but I like that we are continuing. I am not looking for big changes. The change that affect me the most is if it stopped.

/Congrats on taking over, and may /HighFives come your way.

[Khatovar]

but i AM concerned about this website (or the coming one) becoming a ISBoxer front-shop, just like mb.com is a frontshop for pwnboxer.
Clearly that would not make it an open community forum, but simply a product forum like the one on isboxer.com (are those forums going to merge btw?)

Regarding the KC link on top, i tend to see Robs point. By leaving only the ISB link you explicitely say that this site recommends firstly this product, where really it should have a link to the list of all boxing products like in the wiki i think. maybe sorted by number of users or a star rating or whatever


Honestly, I don't think that would be any different than it has been. An overwhelming majority of people that post here use ISBoxer. And the vast majority of the time when people ask what they should use, they're going to be told ISBoxer. People come here for ISBoxer help all the time. I mean, look at the software forums - In the last 5 pages of posts there's 69 posts for ISBoxer, 12 for Keyclone, 4 for HKN and one each for AHK, pwnboxer and general Mac multiboxing.

This community in general has been recommending ISBoxer over anything else for well over a year. It's what people are using and I'd venture to guess that it's because that's what is discussed most frequently, not because of a link at the top of the forum. Adding a list sorted by ratings or user numbers isn't going to change that. Unless some product comes out with a neural interface that allows users to configure it by simply thinking about what they want, I don't see that changing anytime soon. And face it, it'll probably be Lax who does it with JoeMultiboxer, lol.

I've seen a few posts about there needing to be a wiki about all products...I mention just about every product under the sun in the Newb Boxers thread {which is also on the index of the wiki}. It took me many, many hours to track down the sparse number of links in there. And to track them down again after the wiki got blowed up.

The content we have here is always, always, always a gesture of love. People don't get paid to create content for the forums or the wiki. It's not anyone's job. Yes, maybe an in-depth overview or review of each program out there would be nice, but it would also be an insane amount of work to keep it fair, unbiased and up-to-date. And it's not likely to do anything other than lead new people think that there's actually a wide and active userbase here of people using X, Y or Z when there isn't.

That said, I don't know what Lax plans to do here. For all I know, I could come back tomorrow and be de-modded and find all my HKN-related posts poofed. Or things could be the same as ever. *shrug*

[Zub]

Honestly, I don't think that would be any different than it has been. An overwhelming majority of people that post here use ISBoxer. And the vast majority of the time when people ask what they should use, they're going to be told ISBoxer. People come here for ISBoxer help all the time. I mean, look at the software forums - In the last 5 pages of posts there's 69 posts for ISBoxer, 12 for Keyclone, 4 for HKN and one each for AHK, pwnboxer and general Mac multiboxing.

This community in general has been recommending ISBoxer over anything else for well over a year. It's what people are using and I'd venture to guess that it's because that's what is discussed most frequently, not because of a link at the top of the forum. Adding a list sorted by ratings or user numbers isn't going to change that. Unless some product comes out with a neural interface that allows users to configure it by simply thinking about what they want, I don't see that changing anytime soon. And face it, it'll probably be Lax who does it with JoeMultiboxer, lol.

I've seen a few posts about there needing to be a wiki about all products...I mention just about every product under the sun in the Newb Boxers thread {which is also on the index of the wiki}. It took me many, many hours to track down the sparse number of links in there. And to track them down again after the wiki got blowed up.

The content we have here is always, always, always a gesture of love. People don't get paid to create content for the forums or the wiki. It's not anyone's job. Yes, maybe an in-depth overview or review of each program out there would be nice, but it would also be an insane amount of work to keep it fair, unbiased and up-to-date. And it's not likely to do anything other than lead new people think that there's actually a wide and active userbase here of people using X, Y or Z when there isn't.

That said, I don't know what Lax plans to do here. For all I know, I could come back tomorrow and be de-modded and find all my HKN-related posts poofed. Or things could be the same as ever. *shrug*

i agree with all of you say. and indeed it's up to Lax now.
I just wanted to point out in my previous post that -even though ISB is the best, I used it too- people still need to have the choice. Removing other options because one is better is not good for the community.

In a perfect world the top link would point to your wiki list of boxing software ;-)

Time for the stupid analogy:
Imagine Top Gear (or whatever car review magazine/show/etc) was bought by, lets say, a car company like Ford. What would you think of the reviews involving Fords?
As I said, stupid example, don't read too much in it :-).

[ebony]

(are those forums going to merge btw?)



i asked lax in irc about this i as i think its a good plan but lax said they will not merge/using one forum there not the same.. am sure i got a irc log of this cono somwhere. His paying for the site and doamin and hosting cost am sure this uses some server to run it.

the owner of MB.com makes stuff and sells it he starts something then sells it on his been doing it for years lax does not he keeps his stuff and updates and adds new stuff all the time. the froums have many good years of fun untell wow dies and theres no good new game to box lol.

[Ashley]

I think you should put a link to Jamba in the title where Keyclone used to be.

I think that addon is equally important.

[Khatovar]

i agree with all of you say. and indeed it's up to Lax now.
I just wanted to point out in my previous post that -even though ISB is the best, I used it too- people still need to have the choice. Removing other options because one is better is not good for the community.

In a perfect world the top link would point to your wiki list of boxing software ;-)

Time for the stupid analogy:
Imagine Top Gear (or whatever car review magazine/show/etc) was bought by, lets say, a car company like Ford. What would you think of the reviews involving Fords?
As I said, stupid example, don't read too much in it :-).

I hope you didn't think I was singling you out, sorry 'bout that. I just didn't want to sift through all the sky is falling posts to get to the point.

That little link section up there is such a minuscule part of the site in more ways than one, heh. There was never links up there or user badges for HKN, AHK, Synergy and so on, that doesn't mean users of anything other than Keyclone and ISBoxer were excluded here. That's because this is a site for multiboxers, not products, which is what makes it unique. As long as dual-boxing.com remains a legit site about multiboxing, where we're all able to discuss whatever acceptable methods or tools we use to accomplish that, I'm happy.

[zenga]

The internet, communities and forums work fairly straight forward: as soon as the owner starts to fool people it's basically over. Community will stop existing or move to a new independent plat form and the owner gets a bad reputation. Most of the users here are not retarded. If lax keeps the current way of doing things around, all be fine. If he tries to turn db.com into isboxer.com I'm afraid he is throwing in his own windows. And given his history and how he has been pretty much objective about his own software, I doubt that will happen; If it was to go downhill a couple ppl will stand up, grab a new url and forum software and just move. It's not that hard to see what the options are.

[Apps]

I think you should put a link to Jamba in the title where Keyclone used to be.

I think that addon is equally important.


All 100% this^

When patches come out, and I go for updates.. what do I ALWAYS look for??

[Daeri]

All 100% this^

When patches come out, and I go for updates.. what do I ALWAYS look for??
What ? You're not using an automatic addon updater such as curse client ? ;)

(just kidding whenever a new patch comes out, I watch Jamba thread closely to make sure my problems have been reported or if I can help in some way)

I'm sure Lax has chosen to take the responsibility of running the forum because he only felt something had to be done for the good of our community and he could handle this properly.

HKN (nor any free multiboxing software) has never got any page-top link but thanks to Kathovar's active participation this is the one I've chosen to use when I (very rarely I must admit) multibox on a computer running Windows. I guess hkn users in troubles tend either find answers within the numerous contributions of Kathovar or to directly head to hkn forums ;)

[Ellay]

I still plan on being around, the community is important to me, and I read the site pretty much every day, although I don't post much. No one wants to hear about "in my day I took on 10 baddies with no multiboxing software while brushing my teeth!" So it's mostly just appreciating that the style of play is still alive and kicking and seeing what is going on.
I haven't myself been able to multibox for going on a year and a half now. Had a baby, moved. I can't even find enough time in my day to go to the gym let alone game it up like I used to. I do dearly miss those days, and I felt it was quite unfair to the community that I wasn't able to continually improve us. Lax has great things planned and knowing that it is in good hands made the transition much easier to gulp down.
It's still my home, just without the responsibility :)

[Andreauk]

yes, i was paying Ellay for every db-keyclone... it was the only source of revenue (not counting the $40 from ads) for the site for years (until the last year?). it kept the community alive and the site funded. money from keyclone should actually fund the site for a few more years. but that's up to ellay. what he does with that is up to him.

my only balk is the term 'community' while removing a link to a competing product. that's funny.

and the reason is ... it hasn't been updated? something needs updating? should we remove the d-b banner as well? it hasn't been updated in years.

i receive numerous calls each week and i always ask if they'd like something added. some having used it for years. the answer is always 'it does everything i need'. i'd agree, as i use it myself.

I'm still using Keyclone - have for years. Just because the site doesn't need the money anymore isn't a reason to kick the link. Rob's product still works 100% and I like it because I have no doubt at all that it's safe with no risk to my accounts. He's brought something very valuable to boxers, and it's sad to see it kicked to the side.

[Vecter]

I'm still using Keyclone - have for years. Just because the site doesn't need the money anymore isn't a reason to kick the link. Rob's product still works 100% and I like it because I have no doubt at all that it's safe with no risk to my accounts. He's brought something very valuable to boxers, and it's sad to see it kicked to the side.

Please everyone understand it was a PAID ADVERTISING spot. That is why you didn't see links to any other software besides ISBoxer and Keyclone. They paid for the privilege. The site is now under new ownership and that negotiated agreement is no longer valid.

[Gurblash]

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9589260.jpg

[Crum1515]

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9589260.jpg

Das Problem ist, die Menschen lassen Leidenschaft treiben für ihren gesunden Menschenverstand. Wenn in der Tat sind sie dumm.

[keyclone]

Please everyone understand it was a PAID ADVERTISING spot. That is why you didn't see links to any other software besides ISBoxer and Keyclone. They paid for the privilege. The site is now under new ownership and that negotiated agreement is no longer valid.

actually, the payment was demanded. i never asked for the link nor any link, though having it was something

keyclone was being talked about on the forums so much, the site owners felt they should make some money off it. since i wanted to support the community, i agreed. without it, the site would have had issues with funding.

please don't make out like i was soliciting for ad space. i wasn't.

[keyclone]

BTW, if someone is trying to reach me, do not bother with d-b mail. the box has been capped and will not except any more mail.

please contact me via phone or email to keyclone at solidice com

[Apps]

Das Problem ist, die Menschen lassen Leidenschaft treiben für ihren gesunden Menschenverstand. Wenn in der Tat sind sie dumm.

^LOL. Das ist sehr wahr.

[thefunk]

Google translate ftw

[Fat Tire]

Please everyone understand it was a PAID ADVERTISING spot. That is why you didn't see links to any other software besides ISBoxer and Keyclone. They paid for the privilege. The site is now under new ownership and that negotiated agreement is no longer valid.

I think this is the problem everyone is seeing. WE the community didnt know they were paid advertising, we or I thought that the links were put up to make it easier for new players and the community to find the different software sites. Its not like the links were flashy or anything or popped up after every page change.

I dont think anyone is under the impression that Lax bought the site out of the kindness of his heart, he wants a return on his investment.. I just dont like being looked at as only a consumer now on this site,even if I use isboxer. I guess my biggest question is an ISboxer subscription going to be required to post or be able to read the forums?


I still plan on being around, the community is important to me, and I read the site pretty much every day, although I don't post much. No one wants to hear about "in my day I took on 10 baddies with no multiboxing software while brushing my teeth!" So it's mostly just appreciating that the style of play is still alive and kicking and seeing what is going on.
I haven't myself been able to multibox for going on a year and a half now. Had a baby, moved. I can't even find enough time in my day to go to the gym let alone game it up like I used to. I do dearly miss those days, and I felt it was quite unfair to the community that I wasn't able to continually improve us. Lax has great things planned and knowing that it is in good hands made the transition much easier to gulp down.
It's still my home, just without the responsibility http://www.dual-boxing.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I think every one here wishes you well. Also, apparently from keylone's last post you are quite the business man.

[Svpernova09]

I think every one here wishes you well. Also, apparently from keylone's last post you are quite the business man.
Don't be so quick to believe everything you read.


...I dont think anyone is under the impression that Lax bought the site out of the kindness of his heart, he wants a return on his investment.. I just dont like being looked at as only a consumer now on this site,even if I use isboxer. I guess my biggest question is an ISboxer subscription going to be required to post or be able to read the forums?


If you go back and look at past and current other communities Lax has owned / developed you'll see that none of them (that I was ever aware of) require a subscription to access. Could Lax require it? SURE! Will he? No, it doesn't make business sense for him to.

Here is a direct quote from a larger post that Lax posted earlier for the mods and myself:


Okay you're all wondering what I'm going to do to the site now that I own it. I get that. The answer is nothing. I'm not going to do anything to the site you've all been working hard on. I removed some things that were driving money at Ellay because they don't make sense to keep. Some of you understand that, some of you don't, that's fine.

I don't think it gets any more up front than that. Sure it's all subject to change, hell anything could change.

I don't know what else to say to put anyone's concerns to rest. If we can get past the sky falling, that'd be great.

[Alemi]

If we can get past the sky falling, that'd be great.

But...

Earthquakes, hurricanes, record heat waves!

The sky IS falling!

(in all seriousness - I think people are reading way too much into this)

[Zzc2]

For me, the links to keyclone and Isboxer at the top weren't considered advertisement spots, but links to multiboxing software that people could use. I always thought that the banners were paid advertisement spots.

As far as:

3. The Keyclone link in the header is gone -- this isn't because I'm eradicating every non-ISBoxer product or link from the site, but because a) Rob/Keyclone is no longer an active participant in the site (for some time now) and the software is no longer updated, and b) for the same reason as #1 and #2, these revenue streams are no longer necessary to support the site

That's just some BS to remove the competition out. Ive been using keyclone for years, no problems and when there is, Rob does put out an update. So to say that keyclone is not working or broken is not the case and Rob does answer emails and respond to people's questions. Don't use that as an excuse to remove the link to keyclone, that's just stupid. Shit, remove the link to the wiki because that is never updated and is completely outdated.

All I know if this site turns into isboxer promotion site, I'll just find a new boxing site to go to.

[MiRai]

Shit, remove the link to the wiki because that is never updated and is completely outdated.
The Wiki has been user-driven since day 1 of its creation. If you had felt that the Wiki was out-of-date (which
it is), you had all the power to step up and adjust its content. At this point, I would hold off as the Wiki will be
seeing a revamp soon™.

[Zzc2]

Wiki went out of date when Vyndree stopped updating it

[MiRai]

Wiki went out of date when Vyndree stopped updating it
Both myself and Khatovar have added new parts to it in the last few months. Again, if anyone felt that strongly
that the Wiki needed updating they could have stepped up and updated it at any time.

[naPS]

That's just some BS to remove the competition out. Ive been using keyclone for years, no problems and when there is, Rob does put out an update. So to say that keyclone is not working or broken is not the case and Rob does answer emails and respond to people's questions. Don't use that as an excuse to remove the link to keyclone, that's just stupid. Shit, remove the link to the wiki because that is never updated and is completely outdated.

I tried for weeks to contact Rob when my copy of Keyclone bugged out. I was unsuccessful. His support for his product is awful at best. His site is never updated, he doesn't post links for updates, and the e-mail address provided to get new keys is NEVER answered. Look at the reams of posts on here about folks trying to get in touch with Rob.

It's the absolute truth man, and imo, a completely valid reason to remove the link.

The utter lack of communication and support is what drove me kicking and screaming to ISBoxer now.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Both myself and Khatovar have added new parts to it in the last few months. Again, if anyone felt that strongly
that the Wiki needed updating they could have stepped up and updated it at any time.

This. Also, there were lots of changes that may not have been obvious, like corrected links, fixed formatting, etc. If it's a content issue you had, step up, brah.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I tried for weeks to contact Rob when my copy of Keyclone bugged out. I was unsuccessful. His support for his product is awful at best. His site is never updated, he doesn't post links for updates, and the e-mail address provided to get new keys is NEVER answered. Look at the reams of posts on here about folks trying to get in touch with Rob.

It's the absolute truth man, and imo, a completely valid reason to remove the link.

The utter lack of communication and support is what drove me kicking and screaming to ISBoxer now.

You have more than one avenue of contact. From what I've read (even recently), the phone number on the site works like a champ. If you sat around and waited for an email response, then that's on you.

[edit] And really, this isn't the thread (or the forum) to be bashing people in. /shrug If you wanna vent frustrations, I hear IRC or the OT forum is pretty good for that.

[Kedash00]

ban everyone that has a problem with therotical situations!
problem solved

[Fat Tire]

Don't be so quick to believe everything you read.

I don't know what else to say to put anyone's concerns to rest. If we can get past the sky falling, that'd be great.

Dont think anyone thinks the sky is falling, which is why its funny so many people keep bringing it up. I honestly expected more tin foil hat jabs than anything. The future possible nefarious acts are what people like me are bringing up mostly in jest.


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Zub]

Just a case of wait-and-see-and-trust-and-hope ;-)

[Shania]

Hm interesting. I dont use other programs only isboxer, however I agree why remove other links ?
I though this site was dual boxing, multi boxing, not isboxer boxing ?

Though when anyone asks me what do I use, I always say, look up isboxer it's awesome, easy to use, sometmes people assume Im using HKN, and are surprised when I say I never tried it or know much on it.

Why not have other links there anyway ?

Anyway Grats I guess on new ownership. /shrugs

Just write easier guides for noobs and I be happy :P

[Khatovar]

Hm interesting. I dont use other programs only isboxer, however I agree why remove other links ?
I though this site was dual boxing, multi boxing, not isboxer boxing ?

Why has been multiple times in this thread and in the sticky.

There has been no removal of any other links on this site. You can still find information, help and download links for everything, including Keyclone, all over this site.

When there were no links up there, this was a site about multiboxing. When both links were there, it was still a site about multiboxing. It didn't become a site about multiboxing with ISBoxer or Keyclone.

Nothing else has changed. It's the exact same site that it was last week.


Why not have other links there anyway ?

Because there's at least a dozen different multiboxing products out there and no one wants to have to scroll down half a page just to actually see the forums or be required to use ctrl+f to find the link to the chat among all the other junk up there.

[drarkan]

Ok I tried to read through the whole thread, but I get a few pages at a time, then life pulls me away. I stopped at page 7, so anything between then and now I will not read till a later date.

First, CONGRATS LAX!! This site will be well taken care of from a person who is the owner of a multiboxing software which means, you know what to put into a site dedicated to multiboxing discussion.

I don't see this site being merged with ISBoxer's forum, why would it. Its setup as a community already for those who have ISBoxer licenses. I don't see this site being setup in such a way to chop half the community who don't use ISBoxer, so yes, I agree with Lax's decision to not merge the two sites. I also don't see it going the direction of MB.com where its so undermaintained that you get spam lingering on the fourms for 3-10 hours per day, due to the fact that the site owner (we all know who it is, lets not get into a discussion about opinion) has so much on his plate, I'm sure the luxury of 1-2 hours to scan the site, reply to posts just isn't there. So spam gets to linger, and the other mods who run it, don't seem to scan the site often enough or have the tools in place to prevent it. Here, theres more activity, more people to discuss things with, and an overall feeling of community.

Which brings me to my next point. Ok, lax is the owner, its his choice to post what links on the site to what product. I agree with him totally on that regard, being a business owner myself, being that I wouldn't want someone posting up a sign in my store, telling my customers to buy their product that is in direct competition with me, I would loose business. However, I use ISBoxer, I used to use Pwnboxer, but not anymore. ISBoxer to me is a better product. Shit for the price, and what it has to offer, I am surprised its that cheep of a subscription for the whole year! Now thats thinking of community!

Keyclone, now I understand your feelings on being upset for loosing your link. You also provide a product which is useful for multiboxers. Lax is open to having the link, under the similar circumstances you and him had to pay Ellay previously. Now I'm not sure what the fee is, but if you want the link perhaps instead of bickering with Lax, why not discuss with him the options to have the link back up there.

Now links to other multiboxing tools. Well the WIKI is still there! That has a list of the multiboxing tools available. Keyclone is there. HKN is there, and HKN doesn't have a link here... whats the argument, advertising costs money, but you have the best advertising tool right at your fingertips. THE FORUM! When potential multiboxers come to a site, they will search the thread for people's opinions on a product rather than a link to the company's own promotion. So really the link is only half of the full deal.

Now I think I was going to say more, but its late and I'm tired. Bottom line, don't fight, get along, play wow/EQ/Rift/Eve and all the other multiboxable games out there, and HAVE FUN GODDAMNIT!

[raylion]

I just want to add my thanks to Ellay for keeping this site going over the years and wish Lax all the best in taking the site forward...and not forgetting to thank the mods who do a great job.

Thanks to you all!

[Kruschpakx4]

I still plan on being around, the community is important to me, and I read the site pretty much every day, although I don't post much. No one wants to hear about "in my day I took on 10 baddies with no multiboxing software while brushing my teeth!" So it's mostly just appreciating that the style of play is still alive and kicking and seeing what is going on.
I haven't myself been able to multibox for going on a year and a half now. Had a baby, moved. I can't even find enough time in my day to go to the gym let alone game it up like I used to. I do dearly miss those days, and I felt it was quite unfair to the community that I wasn't able to continually improve us. Lax has great things planned and knowing that it is in good hands made the transition much easier to gulp down.
It's still my home, just without the responsibility :)

gonna make an eye of storm movie dedicated to you, as your eye of storm movie forced me to multibox 3 years ago

movie is up http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=45183

[highdesi]

In my opinion, lax should put the link to the wiki(or any place that has the list of multiboxing software) on the top and remove ISboxer link.

This way new people who sign up can see all the multi boxing or keybroadcasting software.

[drarkan]

What ? You're not using an automatic addon updater such as curse client ? ;)

Jamba isn't on curse far as I know, you have to manually update it.


For me, the links to keyclone and Isboxer at the top weren't considered advertisement spots, but links to multiboxing software that people could use. I always thought that the banners were paid advertisement spots.

I never considered it to be advertising really, thought that this site was maybe promoting those two software's myself. Advertising, is more like flashy banners, with slogans, key features, and a blurb as to why they're the best, "Blast your enemies with (insert multiboxing software title here)


That's just some BS to remove the competition out. Ive been using keyclone for years, no problems and when there is, Rob does put out an update. So to say that keyclone is not working or broken is not the case and Rob does answer emails and respond to people's questions. Don't use that as an excuse to remove the link to keyclone, that's just stupid. Shit, remove the link to the wiki because that is never updated and is completely outdated.

All I know if this site turns into isboxer promotion site, I'll just find a new boxing site to go to.

Hell if you want a site with no competition, head over to multiboxing.com... there they edit out any terms regarding isboxer.com, keyclone.com, or anyone else. Its all him, and nobody else! I don't agree with that shit more, the stuff happening here, thats nothing!


In my opinion, lax should put the link to the wiki(or any place that has the list of multiboxing software) on the top and remove ISboxer link.

This way new people who sign up can see all the multi boxing or keybroadcasting software.

Hey man, if you want it done that way, then buy the site from Lax and do it yourself. When I searched for multiboxing software or key-broadcasting software, I found a different wiki here http://www.wowwiki.com/Multiboxing_software where it even, whats that, yes it includes pwnboxer, but ISBoxer and Keyclone are on the list too, but they come up first. Oh and when I did a google search for multiboxing software, I see that Lax and Tim both paid for advertising space on google :p but Lax's product comes up first!

Oh and about the competition, if you put ISBoxer beside all other products, you will find that the daily support, (chat, skype, forum, ingame) lax is there. Functionallity, I have used pwnboxer, and will never go back after using ISBoxer. Its definitely premium product which covers all areas of multiboxing, so much, the manual to use it is multiple pages long. Thanks to Ualaa :D

As for Keyclone I think its pretty simplistic in functionality. I downloaded the trial for it, saw that it was pretty complicated in setup being that you needed to script your codes from scratch, and I quickly left that and moved on.

[MiRai]

What ? You're not using an automatic addon updater such as curse client ? http://www.dual-boxing.com/images/smilies/wink.gifJamba isn't on curse far as I know, you have to manually update it.
JAMBA has been available on Curse (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/jamba.aspx) for awhile now.

[zenga]

Only sensible thing left after all the discussion, is to ask blizzard to ban all keybroadcasting software and only allow multiboxing if you use multiple keyboards and couple of mice. Let logitech, steelseries and razor fight over the banner then, and the really skilled multiboxers can also make a buck out of it then, as they'll promote the next big ass mouse with 5 trackballs on it.

[MiRai]

Only sensible thing left after all the discussion, is to ask blizzard to ban all keybroadcasting software and only allow multiboxing if you use multiple keyboards and couple of mice. Let logitech, steelseries and razor fight over the banner then, and the really skilled multiboxers can also make a buck out of it then, as they'll promote the next big ass mouse with 5 trackballs on it.
http://www.panelsonpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/nes-power-glove.jpg

[jinkobi]

Lax is amazing and will make the site amazing.

[zenga]

Lax is amazing and will make the site amazing.

Are you saying the site isn't amazing yet?

[drarkan]

http://www.panelsonpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/nes-power-glove.jpg

MUAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I REMEMBER THIS THING!!!

Oh and I didn't know it was on curse. I have it installed but I don't see it in the curse list. I'll check again. but I've been having to manually install it from the jamba website

[Sam DeathWalker]

If anyone remembers most were against Lax even posting here the very first times he posted. I was the first who came to his defense and was strongly in favor of his presence here on this forum.

Lax is very lucky though Ellay didnt put the site ownership up for bidding .....

Hey Lax if you plan on selling the site for whatever reasons in the future send me an email first.

Although Rob is a great guy and did in fact provide valuable support to the site with an excellent product for its time the simple fact is that IsBoxer just destroys Keyclone in any resonable comparison of the two products on their merits only.

Although it is very harsh to say the difference between the two products is so great that steering those new to boxing to Keyclone is almost a diservice. I know that many will disagree with that statement but sorry just calling it as I see it, well calling it as it is.

If the situation were reveresed and keyclone was the superior product I would be mad at Lax for taking down the link but just on the merits of the products there is no other conclusion except IsBoxer just blows away all competition, including the pwnboxer stuff and I am in favor of him posting here as well, and it might be time to change that policy and for Lax to show that the site is in fact all inclusive. Let the quality of the products speak for themselves and let all speak on all products.

And ya Jamba needs some kind of boost, how long can someone put in so much work for zero finacial gain. Lax has income from his product and thus can afford to put more time into it and make it the best, how much longer can Jamba servive as a labor of love?

[MiRai]

and it might be time to change that policy and for Lax to show that the site is in fact all inclusive. Let the quality of the products speak for themselves and let all speak on all products.
I think you missed the memo but, any censorship on this site was lifted months ago.


And ya Jamba needs some kind of boost, how long can someone put in so much work for zero finacial gain. Lax has income from his product and thus can afford to put more time into it and make it the best, how much longer can Jamba servive as a labor of love?
Blizzard doesn't allow the sale of add-ons, hence, why Jafula doesn't sell JAMBA but is allowed to take donations.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I think you missed the memo but, any censorship on this site was lifted months ago.

Blizzard doesn't allow the sale of add-ons, hence, why Jafula doesn't sell JAMBA but is allowed to take donations.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=22261


Well ya Blizzard dosn't allow the sale of add-ons, but maybe a link to Jamba and a donation button or something would be reasonable.

[MiRai]

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=22261
That thread is in the wide open and explains exactly why he was banned -- there's nothing cryptic about it. If
anyone else decides to follow that route it would result in a ban as well. You break the rules and act like a
douche, you get banned... it's as simple as that. However, you can talk about PWNBoxer all you'd like.

Well ya Blizzard dosn't allow the sale of add-ons, but maybe a link to Jamba and a donation button or something would be reasonable.
There's a big ol' donate button the only two legit places you should download the add-on from:

http://wow.jafula.com/
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/jamba.aspx

[Ughmahedhurtz]

If the situation were reveresed and keyclone was the superior product I would be mad at Lax for taking down the linkWhether a product is better than another product has NEVER been a consideration when including links at the top. I don't understand what you mean by that statement.

[Tonuss]

I don't know what else to say to put anyone's concerns to rest. If we can get past the sky falling, that'd be great.
I don't think you guys have to do anything different than you are now. Most of us support the community to some degree, and I haven't seen many people who would do anything to hurt it out of spite. Give it a few weeks and when the forum stays the same and there are no catastrophic changes, everyone will settle down and get comfy again.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Whether a product is better than another product has NEVER been a consideration when including links at the top. I don't understand what you mean by that statement.

Those new to boxing should be steered to the best product.




That thread is in the wide open and explains exactly why he was banned -- there's nothing cryptic about it. If
anyone else decides to follow that route it would result in a ban as well. You break the rules and act like a
douche, you get banned...


Having a blanket amnesty for all those previously banned would be a fine gesture on Lax's part and show he is not concerned about any competition from inferior products, and that the site is in fact all inclusive.

[lightstriker]

Thank You for everything you have done, Ellay.
Thank You for keeping the site going, Lax.

[drarkan]

Although Rob is a great guy and did in fact provide valuable support to the site with an excellent product for its time the simple fact is that IsBoxer just destroys Keyclone in any resonable comparison of the two products on their merits only.

Although it is very harsh to say the difference between the two products is so great that steering those new to boxing to Keyclone is almost a diservice. I know that many will disagree with that statement but sorry just calling it as I see it, well calling it as it is.

If the situation were reveresed and keyclone was the superior product I would be mad at Lax for taking down the link but just on the merits of the products there is no other conclusion except IsBoxer just blows away all competition, including the pwnboxer stuff and I am in favor of him posting here as well, and it might be time to change that policy and for Lax to show that the site is in fact all inclusive. Let the quality of the products speak for themselves and let all speak on all products.

And ya Jamba needs some kind of boost, how long can someone put in so much work for zero finacial gain. Lax has income from his product and thus can afford to put more time into it and make it the best, how much longer can Jamba servive as a labor of love?

I agree 100%. I left using PWNBoxer 5 or 6 months ago in part cause Tim was trashing Lavishsoft and their products, saying things about the company using their product for ill gain. Uppon my own research this was learned to be untrue, and within that research I learned that ISBoxer was a supperior product and that using ISboxer VS Pwnboxer is much like using Adobe Photoshop CS6 and Microsoft Paint for windows 3.11. Though Paint will get the job done for making an Image, Photoshop will make the image look spectacular!

I have tried Keyclone a little, Pwnboxer for a few years, then now ISBoxer, and its clearly the better of the ones I've tried. If you want to compete, then try to beat the competition by making a better product, then there will be a better discussion on what product is better, as of right now, ISBoxer beats the competition in all situations.

[MiRai]

Having a blanket amnesty for all those previously banned would be a fine gesture on Lax's part and show he is not concerned about any competition from inferior products, and that the site is in fact all inclusive.
Lax should probably consult you on any future decisions he decides to make.

[Zub]

The various products around here catter for a different crowd, some will like the simplicity of keyclone and some will prefer the depth of ISB.
For my part i believe that a total newbie would prefer starting with KC, whereas a more accomplished boxer will find what it needs with ISB. I can't comment on other products as I haven't used them but i'm pretty sure they are in one or the other categories.

The problem (if there is one) is not about what the products can or can't do, it is about letting the community know about them and letting the community make its own decisions instead of saying "Take this, it's the best anyway".

[Starbuck_Jones]

This 12 page thread makes me look around kinda shifty eyed. I haven't multi-boxed in a long time. Its been a little over a year and a half now because WoW has implemented enough changes to bypass the reasons I started in the first place. I consider this to be one of the premier forums for macro and multi-tasking knowledge there is.

Personally I am a little disappointed with the Keyclone situation, but I am not involved, nor am I privy to the negotiations of the site changing hands. It's mostly because Keyclone was all there was when I started and Rob is a cool guy. Like he said, shit works.

Dual-Boxing.com will still be the top of my bookmark list and I'll still visit. Keep the torch lit.

[Tonuss]

Those new to boxing should be steered to the best product.
That is at least partially subjective. Anyone who gets serious about multiboxing will ask, and that's where the forum really helps new multiboxers. Depending on a banner to tell you what is the best is never a good idea, IMO.

[Apps]

WOW!

I am astonished as to how long this thread is... silly. Me wonders how many Trolls are open for business right now?

I consider myself a realist and a "responsiblist".
It not my site; I didnt buy it; its not paying for any of my stuff; Its not playing my toons; its not my responsibility; change is both inevitable and guaranteed. Subsequently, my opinion is just that... opinion.

What I do control is my choice, I like the level of information here, thus I stay and remain active. If not, then Id choose to go else where and make my own forums. :rolleyes:

/dead horse

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Having a blanket amnesty for all those previously banned would be a fine gesture on Lax's part and show he is not concerned about any competition from inferior products, and that the site is in fact all inclusive.
http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9645883.jpg

[Ñightsham]

This is the 1st Multi-Boxing site that I came to when looking into playing multiple characters on World of Warcraft and it didn't take long to graduate to ISBoxer as well.

Glad to see both under one roof (so to speak).

Thanks again to all that contribute here

[Redbeard]

Not sure how I missed this post for so long.

Have had nothing but good interactions with Lax and his product so far, heres to the future.
Had nothing but good interactions with Rob and his product in the past, so hope all goes well for him too.

Also, I am making a dps bear Svper. To spite you.

That is all.

[Eteocles]

Thanks for taking the Torch and keeping a good resource site for new and old boxers alike guys ;D

My 2 cents on Keyclone though, I still use it myself because I simply don't need more. I'm not as hardcore a boxer nor a major pvper, I just do it for fun and the challenge of doing things such as instances myself(As well as not havingto deal with idiot pugs, but that's besides the point), or raiding with other boxers for fun. I really don't see the harm in leaving the link up there, just make sure people know Keyclone is more of a beginner's or simple intro to Multiboxing with little setup/work necessary, but you can get far more out of ISboxer. It still, and always will, have it's place, no matter how awesome ISboxer is ;)

[Silence]

After reading this thread I actually had to go and search for this header thing everyone was so butthurt about...

It honestly took me like 5 minutes. Now that might say something about my perceptiveness or intelligence, or about the incredibly low acctraction factor that silly bar has.

Either way I've used ISB for some time now and it's a great product with a great person behind it. So I know for a fact this place will survive as long as the games we all box will.

The reactions kind of reminded me of the following:

I was an admin on a site once... It was a guild site where I used to be leader for years and years (Earth 2025). I hadn't been around for 1-2 years until they revoked my access. I never went there but when I got the confirmation email I was pissed. It took me about 1 minute to realise it was bullshit and that my absence more then justified removing a defunct account which led into me logging on in my now normal account and apologize to whoever remained. It's human nature to get instantly upset over losing something, but in the end we grow up and accept that most things happen for a valid reason. In this case, and mine, absence.

Would the link be removed if Rob was actively posting and contributing to the "community" he now so easily dismisses? I kind of doubt it as it would create a far greater outcry then the 2-3 people who are now. No matter the reasons he didn't, he didn't. Dissing the community targets everyone here, not just the new owner.

Good luck to every boxer, business wise or just player.

ps. I need to get in touch with more EU boxers! My server is flatlining fast.

[Toned]

I've used EQPlaynice since it's inception, macroquest, and innerspace. Seeing Lax involved only means 1 thing. His greatness will take dual-boxing.com to another level.

[Kicksome]

I've used EQPlaynice since it's inception, macroquest, and innerspace. Seeing Lax involved only means 1 thing. His greatness will take dual-boxing.com to another level.

^^^

[Slats]

I've been on a huge break for awhile now. Glad to see Lax is taking things over, been wondering if that new software Joe Multiboxer is coming out anytime soon or if we are gung ho full speed ahead with IS Boxer. :)

Thinking of coming back and re-rolling and taking it nice and slow and 'relaxing' rather than 'power gaming'.

Thanks for all the time you spent Ellay and good luck wit your new kiddo, I too have had kids since I started boxing and I look back fondly sometimes on all that free time I used to fill with boxing - wouldn't change it for the world though when I get home from work and they are bouncing all over the place super excited to see me.

I look forward to whatever changes you implement Lax enjoy your products and passion for the playstyle and thinking outside the box.

[Sin Saint]

I've used EQPlaynice since it's inception, macroquest, and innerspace. Seeing Lax involved only means 1 thing. His greatness will take dual-boxing.com to another level.


this

[TheHamburglar]

Could have sworn that xzin started with site and ellay was the site admin but that was years ago. Never had a problem with keyclone or rob. Makes me a bit uncomfortable that this site is company owned now but whatever. Just hope things stay neutral.

[Ualaa]

Aside from his title changing to "Keeper of the Zoo", I've not seen any changes made by Lax to the operation of this site.
Sure KC lost the advertising banner at the top of the site, but that was due to revenue from advertisements not being required any longer.

As to the actual content on the site, the moderators, etc..
Nothing has changed at all.

We know Lax puts out quality products, and supports them very well.
And that he's been around the gaming industry a long time.
His involvement with this site is a very good thing, imo.

[Lax]

The Commons (http://www.dual-boxing.com/commons) is the result of many many hours of development -- my development time, mind you -- since I took over dual-boxing.com. Now everyone on dual-boxing.com can get their videos and screenshots on the front page, the front page highlights some fresh content instead of old news, we can vote on tons of multiboxing content, list our teams and characters for all of the games we play in a unified area so we don't need dozens of "what server y'all play on so I know what server I want to play on" threads to match the "list your toons here" threads, etc.

Not sure why you guys seem worried about this community imploding. I think it's getting a big dose of exactly what it needed!

dual-boxing.com will continue to be the most open and inclusive multiboxing community there is. :)

[valkry]

The contents of these forums always has been, and always will be, dictated by those who live here. Just because the owner changes it's not going to go downhill. I barely even know Lax but so far the site has run exactly the same, and we even have the commons which is great. The sky is not falling lol

[Littleburst]

The contents of these forums always has been, and always will be, dictated by those who live here. Just because the owner changes it's not going to go downhill. I barely even know Lax but so far the site has run exactly the same, and we even have the commons which is great. The sky is not falling lol

If, the sky is falling up. Sorta.

[Eloxy]

Get back to boxing little.... Solo is not the way to go;)

[Vipeax]

I had a boxing break for a quite a while and when I came back I read all the positive posts and guides (MiRai's videos were probably the dealbreaker) about ISBoxer and it was just stupid to not give it a try, especially with the free trial. When the trial was about to end I had a small credit card issue (those stupid Dutchies, mhm) and I sent a mail to Lax if we could work around it by slighty extending the trial to then pay for the free days when it was fixed. He replied that he had a better idea of just extending my trial by 2 weeks. I'm also 100% convinced that switching to this software made my play at least twice as good.

How can such a kind and helpful person not be trusted to run a forum?

[Littleburst]

Get back to boxing little.... Solo is not the way to go;)

I haven't played wow for about 3 months and haven't gamed for 1,5 week? Wow is not the way to go :P
But if, I would get bored to quick with soloboxing. But if I'm only gaming for 5-10 hours a week, the money isn't worth it.

Good thing you're still enjoying it!

[suicidesspyder]

See i guess ive been in the dark i never knew that the torch so to speak had changed hands. Guess when you have been caught up in real life and having two little babies priorities change smh lol. But anyways congrats to you lax. You deserve it you have a great product under your hand and very broad array of knowledge. So keep up the good work.

[valkry]

See i guess ive been in the dark i never knew that the torch so to speak had changed hands. Guess when you have been caught up in real life and having two little babies priorities change smh lol. But anyways congrats to you lax. You deserve it you have a great product under your hand and very broad array of knowledge. So keep up the good work.
Talk about a necro post lol

[ebony]

only been what 3 years?

[suicidesspyder]

Hey Hey i just recently cameback about 6 months ago lol