A Question for Those in the Industry

[boxer]

While browsing the forums, I see that a lot of you work for hardware companies, or know someone that does.

Im a high school senior, and i have decided to look into what kind of major would get me going in that type of direction. There are a bunch of computer majors at Ohio State (where im going), like Computer Science & Engineering and Computer & Information Science, but it doesnt seem clear which one would point me in the direction that would eventually get me a job with a hardware company, probably as a developer.

Any information on your experiences would be great! Thanks.

[wallshot]

degree doesn't "really" matter. It was only a few years ago when there was Electrical Engineering(EE) and Computer Science(CS). Companies had it easy, if you want a coder then grab a CS, if you want a hardware person, go EE. Unfortunately in the HW realm, a person that can't code is useless.

I would *guess* that CSE is more geared towards what you want to do as engineering usually indicates some sort of HW and circuits classes where Information usually indicates mostly coding.

I would recommend looking up the career services department for your school and ask them what percent of the majors that you are interested in have jobs before they graduated for each of the last few years, as well as salaries. That info should give you an idea for the general demand for the degrees at your school. I would also recommend cruising the career fairs as a freshman to talk to companies that you are interested in, the people their may be able to help you as well just by telling them that you are interested in their company and what kind of classes/degrees they look for in students from your school.

Ultimately, it's *you* that will end up getting you a job. Everything you do along the way, like your major, internships, clubs, etc. only help you get more interviews.

[boxer]

thanks for the info bud

[Boylston]

As an engineering manager for the last decade, what I'll tell you is this:

Your exact degree doesn't matter as much (to me) as long as it fits in the "family" of degrees that is appropriate for the job. What matters more (again, to me) is the caliber of school and the history of your grades. I really shy away from folks who do badly in their last year or 18 months of school, even if their overall GPA is fine. I also don't penalize folks for having a Freshman-Ooops as they made the transition from high school to college.

Like I said, the school matters more to me than the exact degree. College is about learning how to learn, and engineering degrees are about learning how to learn technical things. You will learn more things relevant in your job in the first 6 weeks of that job than the 4-5 years prior.

Some other things I tend to believe are true now:

If you are a science or engineering degree type person, an MBA is probably not worth it unless you can do a very top-tier school. Doing an executive MBA or nights/weekends type thing is only worth it if you REALLY want to learn more about business. You would probably do as well (or better) to focus on your career for the same amount of time it would take to get said MBA. Additionally, getting an MBA with less than 3-5 years work experience is nearly totally useless (and most of the top-tier programs won't take you, anyway).

Technical masters CAN be more useful, especially if you can study something you want to work on later. You can command more salary and have a huge leg up if a company looking for Widget Design sees that you did a thesis in Widget Design. PhD is a whole other ballgame that opens other career doors (and closes almost as many).


Anyhow, take some of that for what it's worth. It's one guy's opinion. (Just so happen that one guy has hired nearly 100 engineers in the last 10 years for a major semiconductor company).

[Vyndree]

I dated an EE major while I was doing my CS major in college. You WILL still learn coding techniques with a degree in EE, and neither will prevent you from "jumping" between disciples. A CS major can still get a hardware-related job, and a EE can still get a software-related job, but it's generally easier to get your application/resume through the door if you're the right kind of major.

If you're only interested in hardware, stick with EE. CS will drive you nuts. Having to explain data structures to my EE friends, they looked at me like I was nuts when I told them about the things I enjoyed. Likewise, I couldn't understand their fun in the EE courses that I took with them either (though I did enjoy learning assembly).

They're sister majors, really -- very closely related. But since it sounds like you know what you want to do (hardware), I'd stick with EE. :) You'll take the courses that interest you more, and you'll be in the right place for relevant internships and starting your career.

[Boylston]

It's worth noting that CS and EE have overlap, and the degree of said overlap varies wildly by institution. Also, all this advice about "getting a job" should really be "getting your first (maybe second) job". 5 years after your first job, your resume will look very different and the education section will not at all resemble what you will be putting on it pre-1st-job.

[boxer]

Being an engineering manager, is there a point (after Xish many years of working in the industry) that which college I got the degree from becomes eclipsed by my actual experience and what companies I have worked for?

And kind of rough idea would be great (because ohio state used to suck ass but now its very selective, and unfortunately carries the older stigma to a lot of older employers as i have been told)

[Zuxto]

I believe so boxer.

I'm a software engineer and database administrator for a major institution. All I have is a degree in Economics. When I applied for the position the college and degree seemed like a minor footnote in my resume compared to my prior work experience. It was challenging getting into the field without a CS degree but not impossible. The college and degree help you get your foot in the door but won't dictate your position.

[Ripper]

I have a Computer & Electrical Engineering degree from Carnegie Mellon. Worked for the government and Lockheed before I got into something else a while back. If you like working with hardware, then go ahead and pursue a Comp/EE degree. Once you get past the shock of freedom, girls, parties, etc, you really need to ask yourself if you still want to go all the way with engineering, or switch into something like IS, Business, etc. Talk with juniors/seniors at the college. Check out their textbooks at the store, see if that's something you can dig. College is filled with people who don't know wtf they want to do in life, and end up graduating in 5-6 years. Don't be one of those people.

When you graduate, have a plan to get an master's degree, an MBA, CCIE, or something. An undergraduate degree will get you in the door, and that's about it. When I was at Lockheed, everyone on my floor had a Master's or PhD in math/engineering/compsci. The managers usually had a master's and MBA, or a PhD. If your grades are decent, you can get into a lot of graduate schools(Master's degree) for free if you agree to teach/research while you're there. Make yourself valuable. Just something to consider.

Best of luck:)

[keyclone]

i have degrees and mathematics and compsci... i have been everything from coder to architect to cto. but if i were 4-6 years before hitting the industry right now, and i liked noodling with hardware, i could consider embedded devices and wireless tech. these 2 will be hot for the next 10+ years.

in order to do these, consider compsci and/or EE. you should also consider doing some work on your own (co-op works). anything to get yourself more experience for when you are sitting in the interview room next to a bunch of guys from your graduating class. what sets you apart? grades? sounds good.. but grades won't help me deliver a product. i'd take a C student whose hobbies include the field and is a complete nerd about it over the well-rounded A student any day.

at the end of the day, schedules are always absurd. there is never enough people. and the customers/investors expect miracles. in that situation, i cannot afford any fat. i don't need someone that can identify a certain artist or ski down moguls like nothing... if they can, that's fine... but it's secondary. what i need is someone that isn't going to bite off more then they can chew, while delivering a top notch job well within the absurd deadlines. (well.. that's the view from this side of the desk :D )

another bonus would be combining 2 degrees with varying directions.. EE and marketing or CompSci and graphic arts. anything that might give you a different, useful, perspective on the market and/or help you deliver a quality product.

[wallshot]

like I wax saying earlier, college is not really that important. Going to to MIT or CalTech is a guaranteed job/interview, anything less will help you get 1-2 more interviews than your average school. I went to a mostly engineering school, which helped bring in tech companies. Your school will only "help" on the first interview/job, which is why I mentioned the career center. I would expect OSU to bring in > 100 companies 1-2 times a year.

Everything else after your first job will be on experience and school will be secondary. I would say that you would be hard pressed to get a 2nd job with out working 2-5 years in the first one, depending upon performance. I personally got my second job after 4yrs, but would not recommend looking with in 2 yrs of starting as you should take that time to learn about the company and try to get yourself promoted to prove your potential.

I do not look at school at all and only use the company's imposed GPA limit to screen resumes. I look for leadership and experience when screen my resumes. Leadership and experience usually make job offers easy to give out. I cannot help you on leadership ;), but experience can only come from summer interns and co-ops. Summer interns and co-ops will also help you find out if you actually like this stuff.

I am not sure on OSU's current recruiting status, but my guess is that it is a great time to go there and you should enjoy it. Don't forget that homework is ?% of your grade, like I did, and try to keep yourself busy with fun things and learning and you'll be fine.

...In relation to keyclone, but off topic...if you have any crazy rule the world/company thoughts, I highly recommend a technical PhD as psuedo fast track, although 10-20 yrs of rock star performance is needed in tandem.

[Boylston]

Being an engineering manager, is there a point (after Xish many years of working in the industry) that which college I got the degree from becomes eclipsed by my actual experience and what companies I have worked for?

And kind of rough idea would be great (because ohio state used to suck ass but now its very selective, and unfortunately carries the older stigma to a lot of older employers as i have been told)There is absolutely a point. It depends on the strength of your work experience as a professional, and the relative strength of your education. My undergraduate Chem Eng degree from Texas A&M (a strong school, but not amazingly top-tier) was eclipsed by my professional experience in 3-4 years. Not that it didn't count, but just that it became a minor point on my resume.

"BS Chem Eng, Texas A&M, Completed 1995" - That's it.
I do not look at school at all and only use the company's imposed GPA limit to screen resumes. I have found a big difference in performance between students from different tiers of schools, moreso with graduate level work, but also with undergraduate engineering hires. There are exceptions to every rule, and NOTHING replaces good interviewing/screening, but I have lower expectations from students graduating from average (or worse) colleges. This is not educational snobbery, it's a lot of correlation with job performance I've seen over my career.

[Mudd]

Can't say much about the hardware side, but for software I would say where you got your degree or in which program doesn't mean all that much. Like many others have mentioned already it may help you get your foot in the door, but after a few years its all about your experience. That being said, some schools no longer have languages like C/C++ in their curriculum and I find it difficult to offer an interview to anyone who doesn't know what a pointer or memory allocation is. Of course that all depends on the type of programming you want to get into.

[Boylston]

That being said, some schools no longer have languages like C/C++ in their curriculum and I find it difficult to offer an interview to anyone who doesn't know what a pointer or memory allocation is.

FORTRAN 77 for the win!

[Schwarz]

Anyone Hiring? I am graduating in May with a Comp Sci degree and don't have anything locked down yet.

[Djarid]

This isn't relevant but I wanted to add another perspective to this discussion.

I am a senior Active Directory specialist for a very large global company so we are talking systems rather than hardware or software development.

I Joined the British Army at 16 and so skipped higher education. I retrained when I left the Army at 27 and moved into corporate IT with zero experience (resettlement training). Hard work, diligence and and eagerness to learn have provided a great base on which to build experience allowing me to climb the IT ladder ;) To be fair to the academic process, I was a linguist in the Army and so spent several years in an intense (8hours + 3 hours homework, 5 days a week) academic environment learning Russian, Spanish and Serbo-croat.

While this is the UK, not North America, I would say that experience, both vocational and of life, can open doors even without a degree.

NB: Ironically I am considering doing a correspondence degree in mathematics but that is just for interest ;)