DeathKights in 4.2

[ebony]

Hey so lets talk about the deathkights now 4.2 now is live before season 10 starts I still like this group and hopeing the nulfs are not that stong on them.. but i feel we can get more out the group.
so the main change is Hungering Cold with its cast timeadded that you can not cast when moveing now (did work on the ptr)

So my 2nd spam bar might as well go and changed for somethink more fun. now with this we might as well free up Glyph of Hungering Cold that removes the rune power cost. but really we olny got two choices.



Glyph of Chains of Ice

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=58620

Glyph of Pillar of Frost

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=58635

starting to like Glyph of Pillar of Frost 20secs you can not get feared or MC then we can keep Trinket and the LB as a exta cooldown (heal) half way though the match. but at a cost of being stuck if the one your nueking down gets away then it kinda a lost game.Well what do you think?

[Toned]

Going to see if I can make unholy work, or reroll something else. If my shamans don't work for me either. the HC nerf and dmg nerfs hurt a lot.

[Shodokan]

Going to see if I can make unholy work, or reroll something else. If my shamans don't work for me either. the HC nerf and dmg nerfs hurt a lot.

Damage nerfs were only in the hotfixes.

The nerf to HC is pretty shitty though, part of the reason i was leveling warriors, shaman and rets.

[Mercbeast]

Going to see if I can make unholy work, or reroll something else. If my shamans don't work for me either. the HC nerf and dmg nerfs hurt a lot.

Brostorming should have the DPS you need to burst at least 1 guy down. Then hopefully it is just the weight of your DPS advantage that will win out for you.

I'm going to farm up heirlooms probably start of next week with my DK's and then start a warrior team, they might do better, might do worse but being alliance insta pop BG leveling will be fun regardless.

[Shodokan]

Brostorming should have the DPS you need to burst at least 1 guy down. Then hopefully it is just the weight of your DPS advantage that will win out for you.

I'm going to farm up heirlooms probably start of next week with my DK's and then start a warrior team, they might do better, might do worse but being alliance insta pop BG leveling will be fun regardless.

Quite a few of my friends were complaining about a 3 warrior, ret, disc priest team they were facing (and they were around 2500 mmr)

[remanz]

i thought warriors got nerfed more than the DKs.

How is the enhance's damage in 4.2. Any noticeable improvement ? My warrior team is closing in on 85, but I am not too confident on bladestorm x 4 can kill 1 in arena, even with equal gears.

[Emo?]

Dks will still be viable, i pritty much won 50% of my wins without the HC so shoudnt be any problem to tweak. Maby do something in ISboxer to make one dk stop with actions and just do HC for 1,5 sec then join the action target grp again and continue as normal?

[ebony]

so far am doing just as well in BG then i was before the infact am doing better cus i can heal a lot better with the changes. its crazy!

[Multibocks]

healing as what? priest?

[Littleburst]

healing as what? priest?

I'm guessing shaman.

[ebony]

I'm guessing shaman.

pally infact even with the mana cost changes get some crazy crts.

[Shodokan]

Pally healers are going to be top tier this season.

Your divine light can crit for up to 80k
Your flash of light can be made instant
Exorcism + aura mastery to negate burst during recklessness and other offensive cooldowns (6 seconds your opponent can't crit... can also use it on healers during burst phases to make sure they aren't getting good heals in)
WoG buffed
More chances to run away behind pillars with speed boost talent

I'll still be playing with a priest though most likely but we'll see.

[Multibocks]

yikes 80k heal =(

[remanz]

Gotta shatter that bubble and stop his DL. No bloodlust, it won't be easie to cast those. Leaving the pally free, and he is gonna keep everyone up. I think we have an open field where multiple melee teams can work for this round.

[Shodokan]

Gotta shatter that bubble and stop his DL. No bloodlust, it won't be easie to cast those. Leaving the pally free, and he is gonna keep everyone up. I think we have an open field where multiple melee teams can work for this round.

Not easy to cast divine light? Infusion of light removes 1.5 seconds from it very easy to cast... not quite an instant FoL but still very fast.

[remanz]

Well that's been there. and you can't count on holy shock to crit all the time. Not spammable is what I mean. if you let the pally spam DL, nothing goes down.

I don't know about this round yet. But based on S9, I rather face paladin healer than priest and shaman. Especially priest, if I don't kill him by the 2nd fear. It is over.

[Mercbeast]

I last played my DK's early in January before the Blood -> Death rune change for frost DK's.

Coming back now the nerfs DK's took are not noticable to me, all I see is that I can throw down 32 HB's on someone in 5 GCD's.

[Shodokan]

I last played my DK's early in January before the Blood -> Death rune change for frost DK's.

Coming back now the nerfs DK's took are not noticable to me, all I see is that I can throw down 32 HB's on someone in 5 GCD's.

The only nerf is the CC

[Fat Tire]

I did really really well this season as dk/ret/holy pally. Even though I used the mmr bug, I still did really well. I wont say if i will earn(lol) any end of season awards since I dont know if my team will be reset. I will say that I plan on playing the team for S10 and for the forseeable seasons. I just felt unkillable, dps-burst was decent enough, but the survilibity and all the cc outs and melee heals allowed me to make many mistakes.

[remanz]

I did really really well this season as dk/ret/holy pally. Even though I used the mmr bug, I still did really well. I wont say if i will earn(lol) any end of season awards since I dont know if my team will be reset. I will say that I plan on playing the team for S10 and for the forseeable seasons. I just felt unkillable, dps-burst was decent enough, but the survilibity and all the cc outs and melee heals allowed me to make many mistakes.

I tried out some more 3s matches. 2 teams I had some problems with. All wizards, usually mage,warlock,priest and of course the RPMs. Those 2 teams seem to have figure out melees pretty well. I keep getting peelled off, whoever I attack would run like no tomorrow and his teammates would just keep CCing me. and When I switch, they switch. They don't burst me. just keep peeling me off (CC, snare, kite) my target. Those teams that burst me right off the bat are usually low ratings and I can handle them.


how do you guys deal with those 2

Btw. congrats on your arena season success (no pwn intended).

[Shodokan]

I did really really well this season as dk/ret/holy pally. Even though I used the mmr bug, I still did really well. I wont say if i will earn(lol) any end of season awards since I dont know if my team will be reset. I will say that I plan on playing the team for S10 and for the forseeable seasons. I just felt unkillable, dps-burst was decent enough, but the survilibity and all the cc outs and melee heals allowed me to make many mistakes.

Glad on most bgs was 2700+. Most teams that used the MMR bug (if reported) are getting reset, as well as teams who had other people play their toons.

I never MMR bugged, but i wish i had taken the time to do so since everyone else seems to have done so.

[Multibocks]

MMR bug?

[Shodokan]

MMR bug?

Lets say...

One of my dks is 2k mmr in 3's... i'm playing with two dks who are 1 or 1.5k mmr

dk who is 2k mmr will gain mmr 3x faster than the lower players... so after about 40 wins/20 losses or so you gain 800 mmr.

Main dk's mmr is now 2.8k

The way your team rating works is it tries to catch up to the two highest mmr players... so if you have two to three 2.8k+ mmr players you get 96 points for your team per win up to glad rating.

[ebony]

Lets say...

One of my dks is 2k mmr in 3's... i'm playing with two dks who are 1 or 1.5k mmr

dk who is 2k mmr will gain mmr 3x faster than the lower players... so after about 40 wins/20 losses or so you gain 800 mmr.

Main dk's mmr is now 2.8k

The way your team rating works is it tries to catch up to the two highest mmr players... so if you have two to three 2.8k+ mmr players you get 96 points for your team per win up to glad rating.


Don't really think you sould post that info here and just say google it.

[Fat Tire]

Glad on most bgs was 2700+. Most teams that used the MMR bug (if reported) are getting reset, as well as teams who had other people play their toons.

I never MMR bugged, but i wish i had taken the time to do so since everyone else seems to have done so.

2800 I figure. However, its no big deal if I get reset, barring reporting myself I almost would prefer it. I have played almost all the seasons only skipping a couple. I have drakes from a few other seasons and they are not a big deal, I barley use them and only when I remember them, titles are also not a big deal at all. Honestly wow will soon have as many titles as EQ does soon. I enjoy the greifing aspect of wow, the bloodbath of bgs and tactical aspect of arenas and really nothing else. Exploiting or wintrading which I have done my fair share of is only a means to an end for me and in general saves me time which is much more valuable. Normally I would have only played until I got the weapons but I was halfway decent this season, no idea why, probably rng. I decided to utilize the mmr bug a little, I didnt go to 3600 like a few teams. meh was fun!

[Shodokan]

Don't really think you sould post that info here and just say google it.

Its on AJ, MMO-Champion, Official forums and other places... not like it matters.

Also i made a long post about dks in comparison to other melee

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2743688550?page=1#2

For those who are interested in reading it.

[Shodokan]

Sorry to double post. But quad dk isn't dead... far from it.

[ebony]

am framing 2 1h's atm and going to try DW it seems like its more dps,

[Shodokan]

am framing 2 1h's atm and going to try DW it seems like its more dps,

That is incorrect.

Your damage is lower with necrotic spam which is what wins you games (the anti-healing + damage) in my experience. Sure you do more damage with oblit and frost strike... but I never use oblit unless it is for a kill vs clothies or leather wearers.

I'll get two and try it i guess after i finish doing arena for the week.

[Multibocks]

So are unholy DKs any good now or should we stay Frost?

[Kekkerer]

If you're able to box UH without being a total gimp then go for it, as far as I know no one has been very successful.

[Multibocks]

What about 1 UH and 3 Frost?

[Toned]

I'd say stay frost the AOE cleave and burst is superior to Unholy's dmg. The HC nerf on frost hurt a lot, but you can still get one off here and there. Frost still has decent burst, and with round robin focus strang macros you can lock down 1 healer, and train the other or a squishy dps. With some focus strang macros / leap and gnaw macros. I could see you getting Unholy to work for you as well. I just don' t like Unholy's playstyle and lack of burst outside of Transformation + Garg.

4 Frost DKS + 1 are still able to win games, but just takes a little more effort.

3 Frost DK 3s still seems to work to some degree.

3 Ele Sham 3s... I'm still working on a setup that works. I went like 1-7 when i tried it lol.

4 ele + 1 I have yet to try.

[Shodokan]

What about 1 UH and 3 Frost?

What is the point to the unholy?

[Multibocks]

+20% str, but ya guess it wont be good enough for burst.

[Fat Tire]

Just a tip for dk's to try out I have been using DW using a spec without annihilation and using Cinder/Razor and I am getting a ton of dmg and burst. I am also using the Khaz boe trinket. I am seeing 35k-40k frost strikes with pillar and have gotten a couple back to back. I dont NS as much usually twice for the uh runes because I am saving rp for km procs and I still hb a ton since rp regen is fine.

Anyways I recommend people try it out, you might be surprised.

[Toned]

With the KM changes dual wield might actually be better for 4 Dks,

[ebony]

i tryed Dw got 2 pvp weps but could not get the buest our maybe i was doing it wong what is the spell br setup you useing????



2nd thing am toying about with is adding 1 or 2 rat pallys played a few games with 2 rats in did not take them down top: cus there bubble so i left them up till end.
I lost my healer but stil had 4 dk's all over 80% hp an two pallys was unkillble with there healing and there dps is a lt stonger with wings/pets easy took out my 4 deathkights. i been playing solo rbg with my pally (testing) and agean rats takeimng out players with crazy healing. even 1 rat could just make them mass up and the nuke cooldowns on that and bubble will save its life + exta buffs thats allways nice.

[Shodokan]

The only thing to add to quad dks is to take one out and add a rogue. I went 22-5 when i took out one of my 4 dks for a rogue friend.

Edit: Dks vs any CC heavy team (rmpls, rmp(s)lp as examples) is an instant loss really if you don't land a kill within 25 seconds on something other than the warrior.

[Koralon]

Edit: Dks vs any CC heavy team (rmpls, rmp(s)lp as examples) is an instant loss really if you don't land a kill within 25 seconds on something other than the warrior.

So True. :mad:. Double ring of frost = lame sauce, hate mage teams lol, only way to win is to insta gib a healer or melee with AMS, then they lose focus, and its easy sailing from then on LOL

[Shodokan]

So True. :mad:

I tanked from 2148 to 1986 tonight because all i fought were...

RMPLS
Rogue/spriest/mage/warrior/hpally
Rshaman/Spriest/Rogue/Mage/Rdruid
Rsham/Lock/Spriest/Mage/Rdruid
Ele shaman/Lock/Mage/Hunter/Hpally

Tanked from 2148 to 202x with my rogue friend still playing with me, and the rest as quad dk. Tried both dual-wield and t2 weps. The lack of CC doesn't matter even with mass silences.

[Mercbeast]

I tanked from 2148 to 1986 tonight because all i fought were...

RMPLS
Rogue/spriest/mage/warrior/hpally
Rshaman/Spriest/Rogue/Mage/Rdruid
Rsham/Lock/Spriest/Mage/Rdruid
Ele shaman/Lock/Mage/Hunter/Hpally

Tanked from 2148 to 202x with my rogue friend still playing with me, and the rest as quad dk. Tried both dual-wield and t2 weps. The lack of CC doesn't matter even with mass silences.

How does DW DPS stack up with 2h?

[ebony]

seeeing a lot of 2 to 3 healer teams as well now there a ins lost anythink with more then 1 mage ins lost. (some 2 healer groups are easy)

Worse group so far 4 mages 1 hpaly = what to burst down frist they all got blocks. others i win and lose pay a few games i win then lose a game to them that fooks over my points am about 1505 now agean i wonted to get to about 1600/1650 big lack of bust sometimes


ele shammys are doing my head in as well now i got soloed by one i left shammy till left was not a healer and it one shooted all my 5 guys with LB crting like crazy i had 3 deathkights and my pally i maged to heal my deathkights just before i got one shooted on pally by shammy. then it picked of the deathkights before magic shell got off cooldown.

[Multibocks]

I had a 4 healer team yesterday. I couldnt burst anything down and they just mana drained my healer. Was the slowest loss ever and oh so embarassing. I'm seeing mostly 2+ healer teams now.

[Toned]

I'm having issues in 5s atm... Again I'm playing all 5 toons (my healer xfered off). I was able to cap points with 5s, so that was alright, but I want a higher conquest cap!

3v3 with little effort I hit 1600 in a night. (3 Frost Dk 3s, still running with 2handers not dual wield. I need to farm some weapons).

[remanz]

so what's the verdict.

DKs ain't so hot anymore ? or simply just met the first wave of arena elites. If I remember correctly, seasoning start is always tough. Didn't we always let the pro arena players get their ratings up first and play the catching up afterwards.

Once the 1st wave of players settle down a little bit, then we make the push for 2000-2200

[Toned]

It still works, just have to adjust. It's a lot harder when you are running your healer + Dks. Also with the KM proc changes dual wield frost > 2hand frost.

No HC was a pretty big hit, and with the heal crit changes you basically want to get a healer down fast vrs double healer teams. If you down the warrior first on most teams and leave 2 healers + like lock/mage up it's game over for you.

[ebony]

It still works, just have to adjust. It's a lot harder when you are running your healer + Dks. Also with the KM proc changes dual wield frost > 2hand frost.

No HC was a pretty big hit, and with the heal crit changes you basically want to get a healer down fast vrs double healer teams. If you down the warrior first on most teams and leave 2 healers + like lock/mage up it's game over for you.


i down shamy/durid if there a healer there easy targets not a lot of def i can burst then down in a few GCD then just pick the others of priest are ok but i like to down a healer and just get it out the way now if u got to holy pallys then its game over it goes down to how well geared they are and how much CC they got. am at 48% win last week so not to bad for week one.

[Toned]

Any team with a resto druid ... that druid is a free kill with a good grip :)

[Koralon]

I really don't see why everyone is saying get 2 1 handed weapons, it's less burst... tried it with 3 different 1hander specs and yeah things died significantly slower in all the BGs I went in with those specs, was sooooo relieved when I went back to my 2h (think I'm at like 70% win avg in 5's with my 2handers)...But I guess I'll leave you guys to see what is best for you personally, could just be something with my setup. :confused:

[ebony]

I really don't see why everyone is saying get 2 1 handed weapons, it's less burst... tried it with 3 different 1hander specs and yeah things died significantly slower in all the BGs I went in with those specs, was sooooo relieved when I went back to my 2h (think I'm at like 70% win avg in 5's with my 2handers)...But I guess I'll leave you guys to see what is best for you personally, could just be something with my setup. :confused:


if u use the right trinkets and remove NS and ob and use PS then it is better burst. as far as am thinking.

[Shodokan]

I really don't see why everyone is saying get 2 1 handed weapons, it's less burst... tried it with 3 different 1hander specs and yeah things died significantly slower in all the BGs I went in with those specs, was sooooo relieved when I went back to my 2h (think I'm at like 70% win avg in 5's with my 2handers)...But I guess I'll leave you guys to see what is best for you personally, could just be something with my setup. :confused:

Frost strike crits for 24k on targets with 359 weps without cooldowns for me... it will crit for about 28-30k with new s10 weps and no apparatus.

[deadguyfred]

I equiped 2 x 359 1h pvp axes on 2 of my DKs for testing I, respeced for the Ih talents and used Razor Ice and Fallen Crusader. I use the on-use and proc pvp str trinkets and saw reduced damage overall and cannot justify the increased cost in conquest points. Im staying w/ 2h.

Deadguy

[Fat Tire]

I really don't see why everyone is saying get 2 1 handed weapons, it's less burst... tried it with 3 different 1hander specs and yeah things died significantly slower in all the BGs I went in with those specs, was sooooo relieved when I went back to my 2h (think I'm at like 70% win avg in 5's with my 2handers)...But I guess I'll leave you guys to see what is best for you personally, could just be something with my setup. :confused:

Well honestly there should be no comparison. In reality you have two strikes HB and FS and thats it. You are not using NS very much at all and saving RP for KM procs for frost stikes. If done right KM will be up alot and your crits will be very nice. I only NS when my uh runes are up. You are trading NS pressure for more up front burst. I use Cinder main hand and razor off hand.

I see no reason for some people with 4dk that have trinkets up and pillar couldnt almost 1 shot people with 4k resilience.

[Toned]

Frost strike crits for 24k on targets with 359 weps without cooldowns for me... it will crit for about 28-30k with new s10 weps and no apparatus.

Those numbers are a little inflated I'm using 2 Obsidium Cleavers on my main DK. I get those kind of numbers on targets in shit gear with all cooldowns up, and both hands critting. I've always liked dual-wielding frost, I'm just glad now it's viable :)

[Shodokan]

Those numbers are a little inflated I'm using 2 Obsidium Cleavers on my main DK. I get those kind of numbers on targets in shit gear with all cooldowns up, and both hands critting. I've always liked dual-wielding frost, I'm just glad now it's viable :)

Not inflated... i hit a glad shaman friend for 23k frost strike last night when i went against his 5's team. I'm not trying to impress anyone here lol.

[Multibocks]

So why is that trinket better than using the strength pvp ones?

[Toned]

Go human and use both

[Shodokan]

So why is that trinket better than using the strength pvp ones?

you can get an extra 25% mastery or more for burst (which is more than the damage from str), plus 3xx str at all times.

[remanz]

well. I did some 5 boxing with Rets/Enhance shaman. Funny I keep going back to shaman thinking it would work. Reality is : enhance shaman doesn't work. All teams (I mean all teams) focus fire shaman when they see that blue bar arena frame vs pink.

And melee, I need at least 1 DK. Otherwise the other team is going to abuse the ledge and its over for me when I fall off due to IWT spam. So TSG here I come.

[Fat Tire]

well. I did some 5 boxing with Rets/Enhance shaman. Funny I keep going back to shaman thinking it would work. Reality is : enhance shaman doesn't work. All teams (I mean all teams) focus fire shaman when they see that blue bar arena frame vs pink.

And melee, I need at least 1 DK. Otherwise the other team is going to abuse the ledge and its over for me when I fall off due to IWT spam. So TSG here I come.

Good luck Remanz-

war/frostdk or Ret/frostdk are my favs. I manually play the war or ret and iwt the frost dk since they are easier to play and war/ret have more abilities to micro manage, but still easy.

[Mercbeast]

well. I did some 5 boxing with Rets/Enhance shaman. Funny I keep going back to shaman thinking it would work. Reality is : enhance shaman doesn't work. All teams (I mean all teams) focus fire shaman when they see that blue bar arena frame vs pink.

And melee, I need at least 1 DK. Otherwise the other team is going to abuse the ledge and its over for me when I fall off due to IWT spam. So TSG here I come.

I'm gonna try 2 DK + 3 Enhance.

Enhance DPS so far seems much higher than DK and I feel like the synergy will be pretty high especially with frost unleash elements + howling blast spam.

[remanz]

I'm gonna try 2 DK + 3 Enhance.

Enhance DPS so far seems much higher than DK and I feel like the synergy will be pretty high especially with frost unleash elements + howling blast spam.

Enhance. Tough

I overlooked the defense with Enhance and put too much emphasis on offense and self heal. Being stunned meaning you get locked down for 0 DPS. and that's exactly what happens to my shaman 99% of the time. He is getting focused down, stunned.

I got 12-15k dps on dummy for burst. When it comes to arena, my shaman had like 1k dps. Only the wolf did some damage. AMS + IBF are hard to come by in this game.

[daanji]

I'm curious to know what others people DPS is on target dummies with Frost DKs.

I've been doing tests with full season 10 gear, dual wield spec and pull about 13-14K when I blow all my cool downs.

[remanz]

13-14k sounds about right.

DK burst is near frontal. You get that DPS peak at about 2-3 second into the fight, which is really really good. And the sustainable dps is not much lower than the peak.

My rets can burst up to 17-18k peak blowing everything, But needs about 15 seconds ramp up. and Once cooldown is out, dps drop to around 10k. 15 sec is a long time to get tossed around in CCs. So ended up no burst at all in the beginning ,and bubble + holy radiance trying to survive.

[Mercbeast]

13-14k sounds about right.

DK burst is near frontal. You get that DPS peak at about 2-3 second into the fight, which is really really good. And the sustainable dps is not much lower than the peak.

My rets can burst up to 17-18k peak blowing everything, But needs about 15 seconds ramp up. and Once cooldown is out, dps drop to around 10k. 15 sec is a long time to get tossed around in CCs. So ended up no burst at all in the beginning ,and bubble + holy radiance trying to survive.

Running S9 gear, I'm not putting up 14k DPS. According to recount I am ranging between 9 and 11k, I'd figure the ave is about 10k.

Although I did discover something about how ISboxer works while playing my shamans that I didn't notice with my DK's and by taking that into account my dps might spike a bit. I'll need to recount that!

For people that don't know, when you set like 6 abilities to fire on one step, the ability at the top of the list fires first if all conditions can be met for all abilities. So, having howling blast as your first ability in a spam system is a bad idea because even if you are in melee range, you will HB before you do anything else! I'm guessing this is more a case of my own ignorance and not something most people don't already know! ;p

[remanz]

Running S9 gear, I'm not putting up 14k DPS. According to recount I am ranging between 9 and 11k, I'd figure the ave is about 10k.

Although I did discover something about how ISboxer works while playing my shamans that I didn't notice with my DK's and by taking that into account my dps might spike a bit. I'll need to recount that!

For people that don't know, when you set like 6 abilities to fire on one step, the ability at the top of the list fires first if all conditions can be met for all abilities. So, having howling blast as your first ability in a spam system is a bad idea because even if you are in melee range, you will HB before you do anything else! I'm guessing this is more a case of my own ignorance and not something most people don't already know! ;p

Hm. what do you spam in melee range though. OB ? Dual wield OB doesn't seem to hit that hard. I haven't been optimizing my DK lately. Which system is better. the old HB + NS + FS spam ? Or HB at range, OB + FS in melee.

[Mercbeast]

Hm. what do you spam in melee range though. OB ? Dual wield OB doesn't seem to hit that hard. I haven't been optimizing my DK lately. Which system is better. the old HB + NS + FS spam ? Or HB at range, OB + FS in melee.

I don't run OB on my basic macro.


The biggest question I have is, is NS even worth using. What about a system that goes...

Downpress
FS
Oblit
HB

Since oblit should hit harder than HB, if in melee range it will try to oblit before it HB's. This might lower sustained DPS but it might spike burst a bit. Or for that matter if you simply want straight DPS and not the backloaded DPS of NS, swap NS for PS.

[Toned]

HB + Frost Strike spam is all you need ><

[Mercbeast]

HB + Frost Strike spam is all you need ><

Isn't that a waste of your unholy runes though?

[Shodokan]

Isn't that a waste of your unholy runes though?

Necrotic is useful... the damage of the move isn't what makes it good.

[Mercbeast]

Necrotic is useful... the damage of the move isn't what makes it good.

Necrotic strike is essentially no different from any other DPS ability. It is a gimmick. 6k damage +6k heal absorb is fundamentally no different than 12k damage. The difference is that NS is backloaded, the damage is partially hidden but it is there all the same.

If you take 12k damage you need to be healed. If you take 6k damage and a 6k HP absorb, you need to be healed. The only difference is baddies might not recognize the stack of HP absorb building up. Good players will treat NS damage just like any other damage and they will simply heal through it not allowing it to become troublesome.

For the purpose of multiboxing, I simply don't know if dropping unholy runes into NS or even PS is worth it.

As far as I am concerned, the only worthwhile aspect of NS is the 30% casting slow on it as the gimmick heal absorb is completely pointless.

[Shodokan]

Necrotic strike is essentially no different from any other DPS ability. It is a gimmick. 6k damage +6k heal absorb is fundamentally no different than 12k damage. The difference is that NS is backloaded, the damage is partially hidden but it is there all the same.

If you take 12k damage you need to be healed. If you take 6k damage and a 6k HP absorb, you need to be healed. The only difference is baddies might not recognize the stack of HP absorb building up. Good players will treat NS damage just like any other damage and they will simply heal through it not allowing it to become troublesome.

For the purpose of multiboxing, I simply don't know if dropping unholy runes into NS or even PS is worth it.

As far as I am concerned, the only worthwhile aspect of NS is the 30% casting slow on it as the gimmick heal absorb is completely pointless.

They generate runic power. Necrotic's back ended damage allows for you to make them have to heal through a shitload so when you do burst them they take it all in the face. Which you just pointed out why dual wield is better than 2h...the necrotic strike anti-healing is the same for both specs and the increased damage for all other main attacks due to mastery/more killing machine procs yields higher overall damage.

[Mercbeast]

They generate runic power. Necrotic's back ended damage allows for you to make them have to heal through a shitload so when you do burst them they take it all in the face. Which you just pointed out why dual wield is better than 2h...the necrotic strike anti-healing is the same for both specs and the increased damage for all other main attacks due to mastery/more killing machine procs yields higher overall damage.

Agreed, but I feel like NS is only useful versus retards who see minimal damage going down on someone and not healing. Anyone healer with a clue is going to know that while their guy is showing 40k damage, he is rapidly building up a fat backloaded NS stack as well ESPECIALLY vs MB'ing dk's.

[Shodokan]

Agreed, but I feel like NS is only useful versus retards who see minimal damage going down on someone and not healing. Anyone healer with a clue is going to know that while their guy is showing 40k damage, he is rapidly building up a fat backloaded NS stack as well ESPECIALLY vs MB'ing dk's.

Most mb dks(if they've even seen them before) don't STACK necrotic exclusively.

[daanji]

I've been actually considering creating a prioritized Necrotic Strike spam sequence.

It would do the following

Necrotic Strike x4 + Empower Rune Weapon + Necrotic Strike x 4 = 8 x Necrotic Strike from a single DK.

Multiply that by 4 Dks, that is 8 * 4 = 24 total. That is a ton of backloaded DPS.

Once finished, do your DPS burst macro and try to kill the target.

[Shodokan]

I've been actually considering creating a prioritized Necrotic Strike spam sequence.

It would do the following

Necrotic Strike x4 + Empower Rune Weapon + Necrotic Strike x 4 = 8 x Necrotic Strike from a single DK.

Multiply that by 4 Dks, that is 8 * 4 = 24 total. That is a ton of backloaded DPS.

Once finished, do your DPS burst macro and try to kill the target.

Sorta like what i do, but you gain more from having the 20-30k attack power from all your crap while doing your 8 necrots than the damage of your howling blasts.

[Toned]

I didn't mean it literally... don't use NS...It has it's uses for sure. I have a button for stacking NS up before a big burst.

[Shodokan]

After some more games... this comp loses to a lot of stupid double healer teams, mostly against priest/paladin teams since they have so many fucking cooldowns.

Still hovering around 2100... maybe the weapons will help next week.

[Toned]

Holy paladins are nasty as fuck in 4.2... I'm currently running into double resto sham / hunter/ war/ holy pal... ya it's gay shit doesn't die ... 2 SLT is GG lol. I've beat them 2/5

[death]

yeah, as you know im mboxing 4 restos, in both 5s and 3s and i find holy paladin/priest tems to be annoying, ive seen alot of teams have members with 140k hp, when i only have 123k

[Mercbeast]

After some more games... this comp loses to a lot of stupid double healer teams, mostly against priest/paladin teams since they have so many fucking cooldowns.

Still hovering around 2100... maybe the weapons will help next week.

Yep.

I have a heck of a time vs double healers. I slacked off this week and didn't do any RBG's to hit my cap. I'm going to sub my paladin out and run 4 DK's now probably with a shaman. We climbed to about 1656 tonight and I don't think we will slow down for awhile. I also went charity case for about half the night helping friends cap their points and that meant some losses we should have otherwise not have had.

Paladin is probably a better bet than the Shaman but we will see. Priest is nice too because you can just straight jack paladins with them.

I haven't really put much effort into maximizing my rating yet, really just doing games for minimum points and I haven't even enchanted all my gear yet!

Ran into a few teams tonight as well. Frenzy, Lawlstryke and one other DK team whose names I didn't recall.

Our strategy started to work pretty well but it will still take some fine tuning.

We sort of settled on, riding warlocks as number 1 priority since other than teleport they have nothing for us.

In double healer teams, if it is priest, paladin it is going to be rough, try and silence the pali and have the shaman interrupt the priest while you spike a DPS.

Otherwise vs Druids, we started spiking the druid and then switching to the second healer. Usually could get that kill on the second healer before the druid could ramp up healing.

I'm also playing with the idea of a double healer team myself and running the 4 DK's on rotation. I've got warriors in the wings I am working up as well that may find themselves part of split 2DK 2War teams.

[Mercbeast]

Holy paladins are nasty as fuck in 4.2... I'm currently running into double resto sham / hunter/ war/ holy pal... ya it's gay shit doesn't die ... 2 SLT is GG lol. I've beat them 2/5

Haha, I played you tonight in the sewers.

My Shaman was on his Spriest and his buddy was subbing in as a druid (charity points).

Druid wasn't on vent so I couldn't tell him how to mess with you best, druid got LOS'd and you blew up one of my 3 DK's pretty quick. I lost the second DK as I took one of yours down and then I figured the game was over and just left my 3rd DK autorunning into the wall until I realized we were still in it ;p Turned out we managed to whittle you down to 2 DK's + your priest was it? One of your DK's was doing the auto run into a wall as well and the spriest and druid managed to pull out the win.

My DK's are Gripzilla and company.

[Shodokan]

Yep.

I have a heck of a time vs double healers. I slacked off this week and didn't do any RBG's to hit my cap. I'm going to sub my paladin out and run 4 DK's now probably with a shaman. We climbed to about 1656 tonight and I don't think we will slow down for awhile. I also went charity case for about half the night helping friends cap their points and that meant some losses we should have otherwise not have had.

Paladin is probably a better bet than the Shaman but we will see. Priest is nice too because you can just straight jack paladins with them.

I haven't really put much effort into maximizing my rating yet, really just doing games for minimum points and I haven't even enchanted all my gear yet!

Ran into a few teams tonight as well. Frenzy, Lawlstryke and one other DK team whose names I didn't recall.

Our strategy started to work pretty well but it will still take some fine tuning.

We sort of settled on, riding warlocks as number 1 priority since other than teleport they have nothing for us.

In double healer teams, if it is priest, paladin it is going to be rough, try and silence the pali and have the shaman interrupt the priest while you spike a DPS.

Otherwise vs Druids, we started spiking the druid and then switching to the second healer. Usually could get that kill on the second healer before the druid could ramp up healing.

I'm also playing with the idea of a double healer team myself and running the 4 DK's on rotation. I've got warriors in the wings I am working up as well that may find themselves part of split 2DK 2War teams.

Double warrior double dk could do alright i think but coordinating burst and cooldowns may be a bit of a headache. I'm either going to run tripple warrior + dk or tripple warrior + rogue with a holy paladin healer. I'm really not sure how well it will do in the end though as warriors are INCREDIBLY gear dependent.

@toned

I ran double dk + priest + pally + rshaman last season towards the end with a few friends for fun... i think we lost 2 of 25 games (all vs mediocre mmr players though) and then the priest quit the game and the rshaman decided to piss off after i got him his 2200 achieve >_>

[Toned]

Haha, I played you tonight in the sewers.

My Shaman was on his Spriest and his buddy was subbing in as a druid (charity points).

Druid wasn't on vent so I couldn't tell him how to mess with you best, druid got LOS'd and you blew up one of my 3 DK's pretty quick. I lost the second DK as I took one of yours down and then I figured the game was over and just left my 3rd DK autorunning into the wall until I realized we were still in it ;p Turned out we managed to whittle you down to 2 DK's + your priest was it? One of your DK's was doing the auto run into a wall as well and the spriest and druid managed to pull out the win.

My DK's are Gripzilla and company.

Lol ya I was like I think that is a 3boxer +2, but wasn't sure. That was me on all 5 with priest rolling renews via innerspace. I was just tryin to cap pts on the priest. The priest I normally play with wasn't online. Trust me I was so annoyed how close that was because of 1 walled DK.

[Toned]

I'm tryin to get a rogue friend to play. Gonna run 3DKs and have rogue and priest friends.

[Mercbeast]

I feel like 3 + 2 is PROBABLY going to be the most effective comp. DPS with 3 sync'd DK's is still pretty good and can burst people down quite easily still.

I'm torn over if I think double healer or healer + DPS is going to be more effective. It will probably be a bit of a roshambo situation.

3+1+1 healer will probably be better vs double healers while 3+2 healers will work better vs trip heal teams.

[Nikita]

I actually beat a triple healer team with DK and warrior several times. And they had like 1750 MMR. I play 4 shamans and a friend priest. Its all about getting 3 seconds to burst em down. I feel its easier to beat those teams as shaman since you have hex and fearbomb. Any thought on that?

[Toned]

I feel like 3 + 2 is PROBABLY going to be the most effective comp. DPS with 3 sync'd DK's is still pretty good and can burst people down quite easily still.

I'm torn over if I think double healer or healer + DPS is going to be more effective. It will probably be a bit of a roshambo situation.

3+1+1 healer will probably be better vs double healers while 3+2 healers will work better vs trip heal teams.

I'm torn too between Holy Pal / Disc Priest + 3 DKs or Disc Priest / Rogue + 3 Dks

[Mercbeast]

I actually beat a triple healer team with DK and warrior several times. And they had like 1750 MMR. I play 4 shamans and a friend priest. Its all about getting 3 seconds to burst em down. I feel its easier to beat those teams as shaman since you have hex and fearbomb. Any thought on that?

Range DPS is the difference I think. Any interruption via CC to the DK's and the best part of their DPS stops even if it is only for a second or two. That alone can be enough to save someone, a fear, a root whatever.

With Shamans if you're on target, you're on target ;p

[daanji]

I'm torn too between Holy Pal / Disc Priest + 3 DKs or Disc Priest / Rogue + 3 Dks

I've been experimenting with different compositions this season. So far I've tried the following



4 DKs + Disc Priest

This one didn't work for me as my priest partner would be trained into the ground. Nothing could save him.

4 DKS + Holy Paladin

This still works fine up to 1750s, but my paladin partner tends to be chained CCed while one DK gets focused and dies.

3 DKs + 2 Holy Paladins

This adds more survivability and having Might+Kings is nice, but the Paladins both get chained CCed.

3 DKs + 1 Holy Paladins + 1 Rogue

This seemed to work fairly well, only did about one week of games like this.
However, doing coordinated burst with a Rogue partner proved challenging and smoke bomb was easily overcome by good teams.

3 DKs + 1 Holy Paladins + 1 Resto Shaman

This worked ok, but wasn't a huge improvement. The shaman would get trained and die to fast. The only trick it has to offer is the Spirit link totem, but once that is blown, the shaman dies.


3 DKs + 1 Holy Paladins + 1 Disc Priest

Now this is the comp I'm most excited about. The Disc priest's jobs is mass dispel + shields. It keeps me from getting rooted and can get rid of those pesky immunities. The opposing team knows this, so the priest always gets CCed and trained first. This allows the Paladin to heal effectively. Secondly, when I really need a mass dispell (to make a kill) I call for it, my Paladin partner will BoP the priest, the priest will fear and mass dispells comes raining down while my DKs dance on a corpse.

With only 3 DKs, kills are harder to come by so games tend to last longer. Good teams will survive the initial burst and onslaught. By the time 1 minute has passed, their healers have blown all their cool downs and the mana is low, just in time for all my cooldowns to fire again. This is when I get most of my killing blows. I do a lot of hard switches to keep them guessing and use a focus Death grip macro to keep one healer busy and always in range. Also, mass death + fear is awesome.

[Mercbeast]

I've been experimenting with different compositions this season. So far I've tried the following



4 DKs + Disc Priest

This one didn't work for me as my priest partner would be trained into the ground. Nothing could save him.
4 DKS + Holy Paladin

This still works fine up to 1750s, but my paladin partner tends to be chained CCed while one DK gets focused and dies.
3 DKs + 2 Holy Paladins

This adds more survivability and having Might+Kings is nice, but the Paladins both get chained CCed.
3 DKs + 1 Holy Paladins + 1 Rogue

This seemed to work fairly well, only did about one week of games like this.
However, doing coordinated burst with a Rogue partner proved challenging and smoke bomb was easily overcome by good teams.
3 DKs + 1 Holy Paladins + 1 Resto Shaman

This worked ok, but wasn't a huge improvement. The shaman would get trained and die to fast. The only trick it has to offer is the Spirit link totem, but once that is blown, the shaman dies.
3 DKs + 1 Holy Paladins + 1 Disc Priest

Now this is the comp I'm most excited about. The Disc priest's jobs is mass dispel + shields. It keeps me from getting rooted and can get rid of those pesky immunities. The opposing team knows this, so the priest always gets CCed and trained first. This allows the Paladin to heal effectively. Secondly, when I really need a mass dispell (to make a kill) I call for it, my Paladin partner will BoP the priest, the priest will fear and mass dispells comes raining down while my DKs dance on a corpse.

With only 3 DKs, kills are harder to come by so games tend to last longer. Good teams will survive the initial burst and onslaught. By the time 1 minute has passed, their healers have blown all their cool downs and the mana is low, just in time for all my cooldowns to fire again. This is when I get most of my killing blows. I do a lot of hard switches to keep them guessing and use a focus Death grip macro to keep one healer busy and always in range. Also, mass death + fear is awesome.



Holy Pal + Resto druid is pretty solid as well.

I may try Holy Pal + Mage. Mage isn't there to do damage. He is there to CC and protect the Paly from melee trains.

[daanji]

I've tried Holy Paladin + Mage before, didn't work too well.

Since I spam Howling Blast and since IWT causes my toons to circle, I end up breaking all the CC.

Sure, I could adapt and use a Obliterate rotation, but that decreases our pressure by a huge amount.

[Shodokan]

Hpal/disc + 3 dks works great if your healers are good... if not then you're going to end up doing far worse.

I ran double healer + 3 dks to about 2300 last season as well as quad dk to 2200.... this season with our severe lack of CC other than silences it is possible double healer may be better.

Also your paladin can coordinate Aura mastery for when you need mass dispels most.

[Mercbeast]

I'm leveling up warriors at the moment. In the 3 DK team, I am wondering how effective it would be to go to 2 DK's and drive as the warrior.

DK's are IMO easier to manage as drones since so much of their DPS and effectiveness is ranged. The warrior on the other hand has wreckstorm for huge burst + mortal strike to reduce healing effectiveness even further.

Or maybe even go to a 3 DK 1 War + healer team.

While the MS debuff is only 10% right now, Bliz has admitted that 10% is too low right now with 200% crits for healing and they have dropped a hint that 20% MS(all MS style debuffs) would bring it in check.

[Shodokan]

I'm leveling up warriors at the moment. In the 3 DK team, I am wondering how effective it would be to go to 2 DK's and drive as the warrior.

DK's are IMO easier to manage as drones since so much of their DPS and effectiveness is ranged. The warrior on the other hand has wreckstorm for huge burst + mortal strike to reduce healing effectiveness even further.

Or maybe even go to a 3 DK 1 War + healer team.

While the MS debuff is only 10% right now, Bliz has admitted that 10% is too low right now with 200% crits for healing and they have dropped a hint that 20% MS(all MS style debuffs) would bring it in check.

warriors are super gear dependent, and even driving with one... is annoying.

gearing them now... i want to cut my wrists.

[Toned]

Wars with gear = good... Wars without max gear = failboats and easy train targets.

[Shodokan]

Wars with gear = good... Wars without max gear = failboats and easy train targets.

40 hours of afking AV incoming.

[Shodokan]

Warriors sucked, back to dks... playing 3's again with friend for fun.

I went back to 2h weps (because i didnt feel like spending an absolute assload for dual wield + 2200 dual wield weps)

I'll keep people posted on how it goes.

[Mercbeast]

DK's are solid. It always comes back to grip making that team.

[Shodokan]

2200 in 3's... three-peat.

[Mercbeast]

2200 in 3's... three-peat.

You playing all three or you running 2+healer buddy.

[Multibocks]

Hes running the 2 DKs

[Fat Tire]

Its fairly easy, dont know why more people are not doing it.

[Toned]

Warriors sucked, back to dks... playing 3's again with friend for fun.

I went back to 2h weps (because i didnt feel like spending an absolute assload for dual wield + 2200 dual wield weps)

I'll keep people posted on how it goes.

I think I'm going to do the samething. Blizz is retarded when it comes to itemization. The only str offhand that has offhand prices is an effing fist weapon. I really don't feel like spending that many conquest pts for dual 1handers. Just to do it again for tier 2.

[Shodokan]

Its fairly easy, dont know why more people are not doing it.

I want to play something else, but i dunno if i wanna run ret + dk + priest or like... tripple feral.

Unless you que into lots of MLS, FMP, RMP, kitty cleave, jungle cleave... then yeah it is pretty easy to win.