More EU blue

[Monkofdoom]

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=3111662873&sid=1&pageNo=3

Just as I don't see as many blue posts in the forums about MB'ing :p

[Majestic_Clown]

I replied, reading it back to my self, it doesnt make much sense, oh well :P

[raylion]

It's quite a fun thread...people moaning about multiboxing being unfair but when you quiz them to be specific they suddenly can't think of anything. Seems to be the best approach to deal with this sort of stuff, just keep asking them why its unfair until they find for themselves that the only conclusion is that its not.

[Djarid]

lol I just replied too ;)

I asked how they can consider keyclone to be automated when they agree that vetras aren't!

[Majestic_Clown]

I'm trying to plug the website as much as I can in my posts :)

[raylion]

Hehe...was going to suggest that given the thread started to heat up a bit :)

Shame that the nay sayers are suggesting that we're just power levellers now with the intention to sell the accounts. Quite incredible really, some people will try and find the worst in anything and ignore what is most probable, just players having fun.

[Majestic_Clown]

Yeah it is a shame, well im going to watch the thread and keep posting :D

[Otlecs]

I asked how they can consider keyclone to be automated when they agree that vetras aren't

<dons flame-proof jacket>

That's asking for trouble, because anybody who knows anything about Keyclone will be able to reel off a massive list of things KC does that you just CAN'T do with hardware solutions (running multiple instances on a single box, sending keystrokes to un-focussed windows, do not pass lists, white lists, etc, etc).

I'm glad it's still allowed - today - but that particular question opens KC users up to all sorts of attacks.

Personally, I'm not comfortable using it any more - it goes down in history as the very first piece of software I stopped using because it became TOO functional! - and went back to the one box, one WoW, wireless keyboard solution because there's just no arguing with that.

Except there is, of course, because most people who attack us multiboxers don't base their attacks on logical thought processes and rational debate in the first place :)

[Ðeceased]

hehe couldn't resist posting myself :)

[Eteocles]

Post some excerpts for those of us stuck behind work firewalls and dying for entertainment ;)

[Ðeceased]

OP:
" I first encountered this about 2 weeks ago, 5 locks running around stv all copying each other all doing the same thing, thought no more of it, reported as possible bot abuse and left, Now over the last 2 days i,ve been witnessing more of this behaviour in bgs, 4/5 chars all running around doing the same thing casting same spells etc. im aware these people invest alot of time money, ie having multiple accounts but is it in the spirit of the game. when you encounter such a group its so ridiculous. there were mixed comments from the bg team, some approved (cos they wanted a win at any cost) and some were very vocally against."

Someperson:
" If the characters were doing the same thing at exactly the same time then it's botting and against the ToS .. if one person is actually playing all 5 it's fine.
From your description it's probably botting, using software to make one keypress echo to several machines or copies of the game running on one machine, something Blizzard have stated is against the ToS."

Response:
"False.
Multi boxing is completely allowed, both by IO switches, or keyboard echoing. It's perfectly fine to do."
then lots of ppl complaining and trying to say it's against the ToS and unfair

A very majestic clown: :love:
" Hi All,

Thank you confirmation Mr Blue :)
I'm really tired of people who create an explanation of something they know nothing about just by looking at the outcome.
I mean come on, the 'No Live' or 'That person is sad' factor is utter crap, I don't waste money on a mobile phone on a £35 per month contact or the highest TV package on VM or Sky neither have enough time to actually raid every single day.
That is why people choose multi-boxing, being able to do a Heroics late at night is not a possible thing (team strength wise) normally unless you are in a large guild.
I would suggest to go to Dual-Boxing.com and read up on how and what it is
Bot = A way of allowing your character to be played on and leveled without you actually having to press a button or being at your PC (Completely self playing computer)
Multi-boxing = A way of allowing to play multiple clients with multiple accounts. If you don't press a button...nothing happens.
There are the technicalities, you can try to justify all you want that its not the spirit of the game or what ever but the fact is its legal.
Laws of the n00bs.

Someone has better items than you = They Are Sad or Have no Life
Someone is doing something you can't = They Are Sad or Have no Life
Someone is doing something you can't and has better items than you = Really sad and still has no life and your opinion will not change no matter how the other person justifies it and will threaten to leave the game and/or kick and scream until they no longer are allowed to do something better than you to gain better items.
Someone has worse items than you = n00b
You are doing something better than someone = ...
The last statement shall be left blank for the mean time as us multi-boxers freely share our LEGAL knowledge on how to multi-box.
Dual-boxing.com my friend...
Majestic_Clown Signing out"

ppl start saying multiboxers are sad etc

Me:
" I find it rather amusing listening to ppl saying multiboxers have no life :P

My average day so far has been this (started doing it recently).
get back from work..
log on.. do instance at my desired pace. don't have to wait for LFG pugs etc... and if i mess up i know who's to blame.. not this constant gibbering and arguing.
when I finish I log off or could probably do a second run, where before I would normally have just found a group that is going to stay for the duration of a run at this point.
log off..
infact I've spent half the time on wow since i started multiboxing then before i did it
go out..
or if nothing else is on I play a while longer.. and once I'm at lvl 70 I know who's going to be helping out half the server with quests :P or gankprotection.
U won't belive the amount of times someone has comeup to me and said.. /lol or reported only to ask me for help 10 mins later..
stop ur endless QQ and get used to us, we are here to stay (providing blizz doesn't change things)
Edit: oh and as someone else pointed out.. I'm glad i'm spending a few pounds a year more on this game.. seeing as I like 90% of everyone playing it am addicted.. this actually frees up a lot more of my time for friends and family."
Clovus replying to someones attempt at pointing out how its unfair in BGs:
"
Who said I only focus on battlegrounds (other than you)? The reason I said that is because battlegrounds are (supposed to be) about teamwork. If one person controls half the team (in the case of WSG) or a third (AB) and can hit one button to control 5 characters, then it's against the whole point. That is why I said that. In PvE, for the most part, they don't interfere with other people as it's a big world.But that means that half/third of the team is focussing on one character/objective...what are the others in the opposing team doing? The other team members that the boxer is not focussed on should be using CC, AOE or getting around the boxer to do their attack. If you charge in face first on your own your not going to survive just the same as you would if you charged into 5 individually played characters.

Overwhelm the boxer, they're watching 5 health bars, they're watching all their characters are still mobile, they're checking they are facing the same way...etc. I'd argue that in a PUG WSG/AB/EOTS a boxer can be less effective than 5 individual characters (this is less so than AV due to its scale). The problem isn't the boxer, its the failure of communication between individuals. If you harass the lead character or start CC'ing the following group they become less effective...just don't go solo, go as a team and you'll win.

As I've said before, the boxer has one advantage and that is focussed fire. If any 5 individuals playing as a team take on a 5 man boxer they should win if they use the tools available to them (ie. individual movement/targetting, CC and AOE (especially AOE fear).

Personally, if I had a choice between facing 5 players of several classes or 1 player 5-boxing 1 or 2 classes I'd rather face the boxer. They can only focus on one thing at a time."

another one:
" have said this many times before, but I find it completely un nesacary for you to inform everyone that you use linux. It has nothing to do with the subject so please go play on the ubuntu forums.
My views on programs such as keyclone is they should be illegal.
Example:
Press 1 on client 1 = cast lightening bolt
keyclone echos the input to client 2 = target player , cast heal
so by pressing a single button you are firing a ligtening bolt and healing. This is a level of automation by a third party application.
Ban keyclone."

MC:
"Correct, but the target player, cast heal can only be done with in game macros.
You can also get the job done by keyboard for 1 char and voice activation on another character.
Dual-boxing.com community express lots of different way to multi-boxing, be it multi client on 1 PC, or over several, software or hardware.
The essence is that software isnt needed to archive the same result."
and now for some fun mincing ppl ^^
Some random:
" I am very surprised about Blizzards opinion about Multiboxing.
Because if you boil it down, investing more money = one person being more powerful than other players. There is no way to argue around it."

Responce:
"I am very surprised about Blizzards opinion about grouping.
Because if you boil it down, a group of people being more powerful than one. There is no way arguing around it."

[Ðeceased]

Some random:
"
I am very surprised about Blizzards opinion about grouping. Everyone in the group pays the normal (single) fee AND they use an in-game feature.
Grasping at straws, eh?"
"It vastly enhances your chances to complete many aspects of this game, like leveling, pvp and even instance-running. Some of them to the disadvantage of other players.
The next step would be for Blizzard to add some options to the account management page:
- 5000 more hitpoints for +2,99 per month
- bot-controlled dungeon-sidekick for only +4,99 per month
etc."

Responce:
"Nope. Blizzard unfortunately agrees with the multiboxers. You are grasping at straws :)
(and can’t explain why it gives an advantage)
Edit: Just to explain. Because Blizzard says that it’s OK, it does not fall to us to defend it. It falls to you to give a good reason of why it’s wrong. Nobody has done that so far."

ME: "
everyone in my group pays a normal single fee.. i don't see what ur getting at.. :S
I personally am paying for 5 ppl essentially, but blizz isn't against multiple accounts soo.. :S
grasping at straws,eh?
u realise most of these arguments have been heard by nearly every multiboxer a million times as the few that do exist have to always answer the same questions.

Simple facts don't lie..

a multiboxer is controlling the characters therefore it is not botting
the argument keyclone being against the ToS is false, it has been accepted by many a blue. that same argument is anyway redundant as it can all be replicated via hardware/firmware (its just a little more expensive).
multiboxers do not sell their gold or accounts, and any caught doings so are shunned from the mboxing community and hopefully banned from playing by blizz.

your claims of it being against the ToS are unfounded and damaging to the wow community. Blizz has accepted this fair few into the game and thus deserve the same treatment as all other players, regardless of your views on the matter."

"
So does grouping, boosting and levelling.
If I, as a level 70 character, boosts one of my friends who are level 30, that player has an enhanced chance of completing it. Should we ban boosting?
If I group with friends while levelling in STV, I have a huge advantage over single players. Should we ban levelling?
If I'm a much higher level than someone else, I can easily kill them. Should we ban grouping?
Multiboxing is available to everyone (it's relatively cheap).
As Clovis said, Apples and Oranges. You can’t compare it with one account. You have to compare it with 2/3/4/5 accounts. "

ME:
"
It vastly enhances your chances to complete many aspects of this game, like leveling, pvp and even instance-running. Some of them to the disadvantage of other players.
The next step would be for Blizzard to add some options to the account management page:
- 5000 more hitpoints for +2,99 per month
- bot-controlled dungeon-sidekick for only +4,99 per month
etc. again this is completely wrong.. you are arguing against something which is not even the case in the first place.. If you wish to make any comparison you must refer to any advantage that a multiboxer has over 5 players playing individually (depending on the size of the mboxers group)

the only argument you could possibly make is that a multiboxer has his group ready to go straight away, but this is anyway redundant as a group of friends can accomplish this same thing with a little outside WoW communication. by this logic having friends that also play WoW, is against the ToS"

Somerandom:
" One multi-boxer using five accounts is like having the permission from Blizzard to have ONE character with (roughly!) five-times the power it normaly would have.
Normal boosting (using five different people) and all other group-features is the normal use of the features of an MMORPG. Not paying more money to become "better" in the game than other INDIVIDUALS."

Me again:
"again wrong.. many aspects of this game are group limited or number limited.. a multiboxer may have 5 times (potentially) the firepower, but takes an equal number of places were those to be taken by 5 individuals
Edit: continuation of argument.. assuming for a second we take your statement and say it's just ONE character.. can we go into heroics with 4 other friends? no i think not.."

somerandom:
"Yet, you, as an individual, are still more powerful than another one in the game paying his normal fee. But i have to admit that there are no hard facts to proofe my point. Like someone said before, it's more a matter of morality."

anyways that's where it is so far methinks.. low blow that last one rly.. find it rather insulting being told its a question of morality but oh well

but someone came up with the perfect response ^^

"
Killing is morally wrong so a game which is based on killing (i.e. WoW) should be banned?
You didn't think your argument through."

[Eteocles]

Wow...some freakin stupid people in that thread then, thanks for posting the excerpts, I appreciate it :p

Anytime they give the argument "LOLZ U HAS 2-5x the HP OF ME WTF", just ask "What makes this different from 5 unique, non-boxed chars ganking you in an even more merciless fashion? They can CC multiple targets and keep an eye on each other; multi-boxers can focus fire, but cannot multi-task." "And no, I do not have 5x the hp...I still die in just as many hits whether I'm alone or with my group, just like you would. Just like in any other pvp situation, you have multiple targets to deal with, each with their own hp pool, and in normal pvp, killing one or fearing many doesn't completely destroy their ability to fight; doing those to a multi-boxer causes huge issues and "breaks" most of them; cut the head off and the limbs are useless; seperate the limbs from the head and they're fairly useless."

"Your arguments have holes which you conveniently ignore. Blizzard has not stated anything about what we are doing is illegal in any way, shape or form, PERIOD. We can and will provide you with these quotes and links if necessary. And you're welcome to ask 'em yourself via petition or forums, you'll hear the same thing. Even if you ban keyclone, there's so many other ways to do this both expensive and not so expensive that you wouldn't have accomplished anything but deny a legitimate businessman, keyclone's programmer, of his earnings on a program he has gone out of his way to contact blizz and ensure is legal, as well as not add features that could even be considered botting or automated. It could be as simple as 5 $10 wireless keyboards & mice or simply using NO HARD OR SOFTWARE WHATSOEVER AND ALTTABBING/USING INGAME MACROS to synch things up.

Multi-boxing is an old, if relatively low-population hobby. It has been done in UO, it has been done in DAoC, it was done in EQ and is in WoW and picking up interest and spreading to other games as well. It is a CHALLENGE, not EZMODE. It has cons that counterbalance what you consider the pros, and if you actually -try- to do it with trial accounts you will realize this.

Bottom line is, since you have an easier whine(OMGFOCUSFIREWITHOUTTEAMSPEAK/VENT/INGAMEVOICECHAT), you take it instead of what you WOULD have whined about(OMG5LV70sWITHNOLIFESGANKING&CAMPINGME&GENERALCHATDOESNTGIVEASHIT/WONTHELPME or ZOMGNERFCLASSxORyCUZTHEYBEATMEWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HBLIZZWAAAAAAAH); Multi-boxing is here, legit, resistance is futile, you will be ass-laminated."

[raylion]

Looks like Ellay has picked up another fan...if only I could fully understand what he's going on about ;)

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=3111662873&postId=31902424410&sid=1#145