Pally Tanking Questions

[Silly Gooooose]

So pally forums suck, no help there, so I figured id try here.

I am looking to gear a friend's holy pally, as prot, so he can help me grind SM and shit for my shaman.

What libram is best for tanking crap in SM? Hes got the libram from Mother shaz, and could get the 1 from badges.

Stack shield block right?

What seals and methods do you use to tank?

Keep in mind I am mainly killing lowbie SM mobs, so they die fast, and thus re judging stuff often.

[Vyndree]

So pally forums suck, no help there, so I figured id try here.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com should help as well.


What libram is best for tanking crap in SM? Hes got the libram from Mother shaz, and could get the 1 from badges.

Libram of Repentence ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29388') is great, as it increases your block %


Stack shield block right?
Correct. Stack block, put a shield spike on a good shield (Petrified Lichen Guard ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25828') is great with a Felsteel Shield Spike ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23530'))


What seals and methods do you use to tank?
Use rank 1 holy shield (you just need to up your block percentage so that the shield spike activates), blessing of sanctuary ('http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27168'), retribution aura, and judge/seal a combination of wisdom or light (depending on whether you want to consecrate more and aren't taking much damage, or need more healing).

Key talents to use are ardent defender, imp righteous fury, shield specialization, BoSanct, one-hand spec, holy shield, and reck. Personally, I don't use reckoning as I have a high mitigation spec, but it does help since it procs light/wisdom more often.

To pull, just run around with BoSanct, ret aura, and righteous fury on. Once you've gathered up a good amount of mobs, run to a nice spot (line of sight the casters), and start rank1 consecrates. If you know you can down them fast, you can max rank it, but for runners/long fights, I use rank1. Spam rank1 holy shield whenever it's up to keep your block value high. Every time an attack is blocked, you will deal holy damage (BoSanct/Holy Shield), shield spike damage, and a poison if you're using the sporeggar rep shield.

Reflective damage armor/trinkets like the Darkmoon trinket ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31858') also work well


Keep in mind I am mainly killing lowbie SM mobs, so they die fast, and thus re judging stuff often.

In lib, be careful when you pull a hallway as some mobs will reset if you run outside of the hallway. I find a good strat for boss farming in lib is to run into the courtyard, grab all the mobs + the houndmaster, and then track back into the hallway and gather the remaining hallway mobs. Keep the lowbies at the zoning starting area and as long as you kill everything in the hallway they'll get XP. After that, run straight to Doan, aggro him, and run ALL the way back into the same starting hallway to kill him. The resetting mobs will reset, so you won't get XP, but you can farm Doan's caster gear (and perhaps the epic ring) easily. Keep him far enough away that his detonation won't kill your lowbies -- anywhere in the first hallway before the courtyard is fine.

In graveyard, it's not too tricky. Pull what you can handle, and keep consecrate up since some mobs will spawn adds. When you reach the underground tomb area, leave your lowbies well outside of aggro range as the spawned adds can sometimes happen while you're in the midst of starting your pull, and if the lowbies get aggro it's hard to run back upstairs to save them.

I didn't really do armory, so I won't comment.

Cathedral is the best for leveling, since you can do it in 3 pulls with "meh" gear. The first pull is the bottom courtyard. Run down the hallway, skipping mobs if you feel like it, and gather up all the mobs in the bottom courtyard. I usually go down the right far side, right middle, left middle, left far side, then head back into the hallway and gather up all the mobs. If you sit inside a windowsill, you'll line of sight the casters into getting close and melee'ing you. The lowbies can stay at the loading area.
2nd pull is the upper courtyard. Leave the lowbies at the right stairs (be careful -- there's a pat) and do the same thing -- upper right side, middle right and grabbing the guys by the door, left middle, left far side, and hten run THROUGH the fountain and jump onto the middle level of the stairs. If I jump correctly, I can get a Gift of the Naaru (dranei racial) or a heal off before they start hitting me again. Consecrate on the middle section of the stairs, and use the upper and lower stairs to line of sight the casters once they run away so they get back into melee range.
3rd pull is the easiest -- aggro the boss. He'll pull the entire room to you. Leave the lowbies at the very edge of the fountain's watermark and pull the mobs JUST outside the door (to line of sight the casters). Do not dps Mograine until you've killed most of the healers first. If you don't have reckoning, parrying the mobs alone will make it so you have reckoning-like speed since it resets your swing timer, which will help you obliterate the healers. Once healers and most mobs are down, kill mograine, which brings out Whitemane. WHITEMANE CAN MC YOUR LOWBIES so be careful!! Kill all teh wizards first -- they will aoe your lowbies if you're unlucky. Spreading out your lowbies will help prevent this, as they only aoe if more than one enemy is in range. By the time whitemane is at enough health to rez mograine, all the remaining mobs will be dead. Kill the two bosses somewhere where it's easy to loot them and you're done. :)

[beyond-tec]

Talent-Tree Prot-Pala (klick me) ('http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/paladin/talents.html?0000000000000000000005305133500021025 215510520500000000000000000')

Libram which increases the holy shield (15 batches afair)

activate Righteous Fury
activate Retribution Aura
activate Blessing of Sanctuary

keep Holy Shield always up when the cooldown is ready (very important)

pull the mobs with Avenger's Shield
run behind edges or corners to get caster mobs to close distance

when all mobs are close to you: Consecration

activate and judge Seal of the Crusader on the focus mob
activate Seal of Righteousness and judge it every time you need an aggro burst

[Silly Gooooose]

the more I see on sites suggesting the best tanking gear, the less I want to trust them.

Most of them suggest other gear with no shield block over stuff with shield block. Is that just due to them having tanking bosses in mind, where as I want to AoE farm, thus I want to block a lot, so we have different priorities?

Should I be skipping the guides and stacking shield block for AoE farming?

Also I don't really need to worry about getting the 490 def do I? Considering the mobs are 30ish levels below me, rather than 3 above me.

[Djarid]

Vyndree,

looks like a candidate for the wiki! ;)

[bryanc]

Most of the gear guides will be focusing on raid boss tanking. Over at maintankadin there is one post re: Pre-raid tanking ('http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=163') that does note specific items as "good for raid tanking" and "good for 5-man tanking"... the 5-man stuff is closer to what you'd be looking for. In addition to stacking block, stacking +spelldmg is a great idea for what you've got in mind. Cons, BoSanc, Ret. Aura, Holy Shield, etc... all spell damage.

You aren't going to need 490, like you said it assumes a level 73 mob. Defense decreases the chance of crits (regardless of level) by .04% for each point that your def is higher than the mobs weapon skill.
(theorycraft here ('http://wowwiki.com/Defense')).

So, a level 40 mob has 200 weapon skill. At 70, your base def is 350, that's+150 on them, and 150 * .04% = 6%. A mob at your level has a 5% chance of critting you (+.2% for each level above you). Now I have no idea if a mob lower than you has less than a 5% chance, but even assuming they don't, 6 is a bigger number than 5, so you're good with just base def. ;) (Aside: Resillence also figures into this equation, but it's not relevant for our purposes due to the level discrepancy).

[Sanctume]

Mobs in SM are all under level 40, so base defense of 350 is plenty.

However, without Shield block/Holy Shield, those AoE pulls can still kill a level 70. I've had plenty of times where my shield durability went to zero and I died rather fast soon after.

When it comes to level 50+ mobs like BRD, you'll need some defense to get to the un-critable range.

That Maintankadin forum is a great resource. There's even a link there to get the "uncrusahble" gear prior to any raid instance like KZ; and it's obtainable.

I think you want to stack on Shield Block Value and not much about Shield Block Rating--there's a difference. Shield Block Value is a direct reduction of each incoming hits that is blocked--and you can block a lot with Holy Shield up.

I think the good rule is to get the defense 485 (for level 72 heroic bosses)

Then unbuffed health of 10k which should be easier now since the extra Talent % stam increase.

Then mitigation wise, as much Shield Block Value for farming/grinding.

Followed by Dodge, then Parry last.

Remember that Defense over uncrit still gives 0.4% towards block rating, dodge and parry.

I think 25 strength = 1 block value.

[zecaguilherme]

So pally forums suck, no help there, so I figured id try here.

I am looking to gear a friend's holy pally, as prot, so he can help me grind SM and shit for my shaman.

What libram is best for tanking crap in SM? Hes got the libram from Mother shaz, and could get the 1 from badges.

Stack shield block right?

What seals and methods do you use to tank?

Keep in mind I am mainly killing lowbie SM mobs, so they die fast, and thus re judging stuff often.

Foe SM get the Libram of repetance (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29388) ->for the shield block rating or Libram of Eternal rest (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27917) ->for extra dmg on consec...
most important (to easy your life); get Figurine of The Colossus (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27529) -> pull whole cathedral instance(both CY and inside building) and pop this thing.... your life goes back really fast
and Petrified Lichen guard (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25828).
I have heard of paladins at 70 doing SM using Demon Forged Breastplate (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=12628) for the heal... never tried thou

[Vyndree]

Vyndree,

looks like a candidate for the wiki! ;)

I was hoping to make a "prot pally powerleveling" video of SM cath first. ;)

[Sanctume]

Vyndree,

looks like a candidate for the wiki! ;)

I was hoping to make a "prot pally powerleveling" video of SM cath first. ;)

I do that quite often, lol.
I think I have Fraps in one of my old computer loaded.

I don't know where to upload huge frap files. Or do I edit the video in Windows Movie Maker first and add basic comments? Still, I have not uploaded any type of video before.

I'd do:
RFC
SFK
SM
BRD
I even started playing in LBRS--but I hate the trolls.
I have not spent much time in Strath though since @ 55, I prefer Outlands Ramparts and Blood Furnace grind.

[Vyndree]

Vyndree,

looks like a candidate for the wiki! ;)

I was hoping to make a "prot pally powerleveling" video of SM cath first. ;)

I do that quite often, lol.
I think I have Fraps in one of my old computer loaded.

I don't know where to upload huge frap files. Or do I edit the video in Windows Movie Maker first and add basic comments? Still, I have not uploaded any type of video before.

I'd do:
RFC
SFK
SM
BRD
I even started playing in LBRS--but I hate the trolls.
I have not spent much time in Strath though since @ 55, I prefer Outlands Ramparts and Blood Furnace grind.


EDIT THE FRAPS FILES FIRST.

Raw Fraps files are huge. Use windows movie maker (yay, free) like I did in my RFK video ('http://v-boxing.net/blog/videos.php/2008/01/26/rfk') and then upload the rendered version to a place like Youtube, WarcraftMovies, or Vimeo.

[Bravo]

I found this a while back, dunno if it's any help

http://ardentdefender.blogspot.com/2007/11/uncritable-uncrushable-pre-kara-and.html

[Silly Gooooose]

oh I just realized something.

How do you know and decide/chose which screen fraps records when you do movies?

[Vyndree]

Cathedral is the best for leveling, since you can do it in 3 pulls with "meh" gear. The first pull is the bottom courtyard. Run down the hallway, skipping mobs if you feel like it, and gather up all the mobs in the bottom courtyard. I usually go down the right far side, right middle, left middle, left far side, then head back into the hallway and gather up all the mobs. If you sit inside a windowsill, you'll line of sight the casters into getting close and melee'ing you. The lowbies can stay at the loading area.
2nd pull is the upper courtyard. Leave the lowbies at the right stairs (be careful -- there's a pat) and do the same thing -- upper right side, middle right and grabbing the guys by the door, left middle, left far side, and hten run THROUGH the fountain and jump onto the middle level of the stairs. If I jump correctly, I can get a Gift of the Naaru (dranei racial) or a heal off before they start hitting me again. Consecrate on the middle section of the stairs, and use the upper and lower stairs to line of sight the casters once they run away so they get back into melee range.
3rd pull is the easiest -- aggro the boss. He'll pull the entire room to you. Leave the lowbies at the very edge of the fountain's watermark and pull the mobs JUST outside the door (to line of sight the casters). Do not dps Mograine until you've killed most of the healers first. If you don't have reckoning, parrying the mobs alone will make it so you have reckoning-like speed since it resets your swing timer, which will help you obliterate the healers. Once healers and most mobs are down, kill mograine, which brings out Whitemane. WHITEMANE CAN MC YOUR LOWBIES so be careful!! Kill all teh wizards first -- they will aoe your lowbies if you're unlucky. Spreading out your lowbies will help prevent this, as they only aoe if more than one enemy is in range. By the time whitemane is at enough health to rez mograine, all the remaining mobs will be dead. Kill the two bosses somewhere where it's easy to loot them and you're done.

For visual learners (or people who don't want to read my wall of text), I've uploaded a video of my strat/pulls for SM: Cath at http://v-boxing.net/blog/videos.php/2008/03/09/powerleveing-sm-cath-with-a-prot-paladin

Higher quality version coming soon. ;)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj5x3M2qpYQ

[Notes]

oh I just realized something.

How do you know and decide/chose which screen fraps records when you do movies?
Your active window will get frapsed.

And thnx for the SM farm video 8o Can't wait to start myself :rolleyes:

[Zanjii]

zecaguilherme ('index.php?page=User&userID=2152'):
Foe SM get the Libram of repetance ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29388') ->for the shield block rating or Libram of Eternal rest ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27917') ->for extra dmg on consec...
most important (to easy your life); get Figurine of The Colossus ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27529') -> pull whole cathedral instance(both CY and inside building) and pop this thing.... your life goes back really fast
and Petrified Lichen guard ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25828').
I have heard of paladins at 70 doing SM using Demon Forged Breastplate ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=12628') for the heal... never tried thou Apart from the spelling mistakes and the fact that Libram of Repentance is USELESS, this post has the gold. Figurine of the Colossus is the best aoe grinding item in the game.
You can do both Cath and Armory in one pull if you have high end blue tanking gear. "Warrior" gear is better, has more avoidance and stamina.
Cath is easy, Armory requires a bit of dodging. In Armory, run past all the mobs, without aggroing, and pull the mobs right outside Herods door. Then its a footrace to the slaughter ground where you left your alts.

Reflective gear wise... Well, when I do this Consecration does 50% dmg, Holy Shield does 9%, Spore Cloud does 8% (Petrified Lichen Guard), Felsteel Spike does 5%, DMC:Vengeance does 4%, Blessing of Sanctuary does 4%, Retribution aura does 2%.
Rest is melee and singletarget killing with Seal/Judgement of Righteousness.

I normally ignore the last bunch of stragglers when doing Cath. Singletarget dps vs healers and casters just isn't worth it, run out and reset instead. I might be a bad person giving advice on this though, my Paladin is in epic raid gear, and my health bar doesnt move down as long as I am facing the group of mobs.

[Vyndree]

I need that figurine -- I'm not using it in my video. I can easily do 2-pull groups without the figurine, and I'd imagine it's a good safeguard if things "go wrong", but if you're not scared of sitting in AD range (and don't care that it's a 2-3 pull instead of just 1), you really don't need the trink.

I didn't put any extra damage on my weap (righteousness/sharpen stones, etc). I found that just using reflective damage and consecrates worked well. I typically judge/bless wisdom and max rank consecrate, switching to judge light / seal wisdom once I hit 30% or so. I use rank 1 holy shield to conserve mana and to increase the chance mobs will hit BoSanct.

[Vyndree]

Here's the Figurine of the Colossus in action...

Though he had to use a swiftness pot + figurine of the colossus and got down to 300 health when opening the door to Cath. >.< Not sure how much I like that.

Slow & Steady wins the race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72c8YUNusEo

Plus, with this strat -- how are you going to get your lowbies near enough to get XP after the pull? I don't think he'd make it all the way back to the loading area.

[Zanjii]

Well, I guess I am just blessed with good gear. It's true I sometimes get fairly low at one point during the pull and need to do a heal when dropping off the waterfall.

That video shows a funky way of pulling it though.


What I do is pull one half of the bottom area, "inside" and out at once with a bit of weaving, Blood Elf Mana Tap and making mobs pull each other. Then up the stairs, and again, pull all the mobs on one side, same strategy. Then run to the door, and I guess you could heal here but mostly I've barely taken any damage at this point. Open and run inside. Pull Mograine with a Mana Tap, turn around and back outside. Then depending on gear and health at this point, you can figure out how much more you want to pull. If it looks good, pull the other side of the upper area, run to the waterfall and jump down, asses again. Heal if needed, pull the last bit of mobs if you've got the health, otherwise run back to the door and start the slaugther.

Map of my route, in case all that nonsens didn't make sense. The dark blue line is the optional route, if you're running low on HP. Red dot is where I kill, using the "door" thing to LOS the casters that run back away from you.

You don't get to loot the bosses this way, but it is the fastest way I know of to pull (most of) the instance. I do this in a rotation with Armory, and use the lockout pauses for breaks to eat, lay down, read forums and generally stay sane :D


The way I did it before, by the way, before realizing you can open the door while bubbled, saves you a lot of being beat upon. Run past all the mobs without pulling, go to the door, open, run in and pull Mograine, then basically do the return run from above / on the map. Yes, you skip half the outer instance, well, nearly half, but its still great exp per hour, and as I said, I am not that concerned about lockout periods :P

[cerruption]

Nice video =)

I read lately about Athene's lastest powerleveling..... 1-70 in something like 1 day, 4 hours /played (straight =O).

I didn't get the exact details, but I recall something about dotting mobs to death, then running out of the instance at the last second before they died. The lowbie(s) stay inside, and get huge XP, as the game will register the kills to the lowbie, without the help of a 70.

Now, do you think it would be possible as a paladin to do something similiar? I was thinking, gather those large pulls like you're doing, then consecrate mobs to death by the door. Right as they're about to die (problem will be runners), you BOP the lowbie then run out the door. Would the consecrate damage still kill the mobs assuming you're timing was bang on?

I think no doubt, some mobs will escape. Oh well. Lets say you pull 20, and kill 12. The lowbie gets credit for 12. Imagine you're bringing a single level 30 along for the ride. You run out the door as 12 level 36 elites die, and the game registers these as solo kills by the lowbie. No outside help. I think that would be roughly 800xp a kill or something crazy.

[Thedonsquad]

zecaguilherme ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forum/js/index.php?page=User&userID=2152'):


Foe SM get the Libram of repetance ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29388') ->for the shield block rating or Libram of Eternal rest ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27917') ->for extra dmg on consec...
most important (to easy your life); get Figurine of The Colossus ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27529') -> pull whole cathedral instance(both CY and inside building) and pop this thing.... your life goes back really fast
and Petrified Lichen guard ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25828').
I have heard of paladins at 70 doing SM using Demon Forged Breastplate ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=12628') for the heal... never tried thou Apart from the spelling mistakes and the fact that Libram of Repentance is USELESS, this post has the gold. Figurine of the Colossus is the best aoe grinding item in the game.
You can do both Cath and Armory in one pull if you have high end blue tanking gear. "Warrior" gear is better, has more avoidance and stamina.
Cath is easy, Armory requires a bit of dodging. In Armory, run past all the mobs, without aggroing, and pull the mobs right outside Herods door. Then its a footrace to the slaughter ground where you left your alts.

Reflective gear wise... Well, when I do this Consecration does 50% dmg, Holy Shield does 9%, Spore Cloud does 8% (Petrified Lichen Guard), Felsteel Spike does 5%, DMC:Vengeance does 4%, Blessing of Sanctuary does 4%, Retribution aura does 2%.
Rest is melee and singletarget killing with Seal/Judgement of Righteousness.

I normally ignore the last bunch of stragglers when doing Cath. Singletarget dps vs healers and casters just isn't worth it, run out and reset instead. I might be a bad person giving advice on this though, my Paladin is in epic raid gear, and my health bar doesnt move down as long as I am facing the group of mobs.
Libram of repentance useless? how? u gain 5% block while holy sheild is active, each block reflects dammage (blessing of sanc if holy sheild is running out of charges). Making it a reflective gear item, that ultimatly can produce more dammage than the 10% more consecration dammage in aoe pulls. The only way that 10% consec buff might outdo the holy sheild 5% block is if you have 500+ spelldmg in prot gear, which is not attainable kara and below.

On the other hand, too much avoidance vs low mobs is bad, let a mob swing on you thats level 30 when you are 70 with 51% pure avoidance and see how long it takes for it to kill itself. In the case of tanking lowbie instances, you are best off focusing on the highest block rating possible as you will still mitigate most if not all of the dmg incomming from lowbie mobs while reflecting the most dammage back. IE: Block = take minimal dammage and hit back for Ret aura + sanc or holy sheild + items vs Dodge = you take no dammage and give none back.

In my prot pallys max threat/block gear i ran thru sm, and aoe killed the whole instance at once, peaked at over 7000 DPS ended the fight at about 1700 DPS overall, but then i'm full epic with almost 500 spelldmg in tanking gear. There are plenty of ways to be able to do it... but ultimatly the figurine is the biggest survival peice for mass tanking... (it will allow youto take the 25 mobs on top of bt all at once in maybe 2-3 other epics)

The most i've had the figurine end up doing was while tanking 30 mobs i was at 12% health (of 13.6k at the time) and clicked it and by the time it finished i was full health. The more the mobs and the more block you have the better that trinket works.

[Silly Gooooose]

Well I know it's not that big of a deal, but after speccing him prot (he was prot geared, specced holy) I finally was able to single pull SM cath.

[Soulo]

With all the Refer-a-friend bonuses out there.. I'm sure i'm not the only one going crazy with alts.. but I do want to share what I've been able to do with a friends Prot Pally. First off..
Stamina: 877 Intellect: 178 Spirit: 94
Armor: 14978 Defense: 517
Dodge: 15.6% Parry: 17.99% Block: 32.23% Resilience: 0

Here is a trick i've learned when gathering mobs.. instead of pressing "W" on the keyboard to run forward.. I rather press "A" or "D" to strafe.. however, by turning yourself with the mouse left click.. you can effectively run sideways at ALMOST full speed. This allows you to block,parry,dodge (most attacks).

The benefit? EASILY pulling ALL of SM Cath in one pull.. once i didn't even need the collossus. My strat.. is leave the nubs at the entrance. Gather hallway mobs.. make a right in the courtyard.. staying under the awning.. then exit the awning at the last exit to go up the right side stairs. Then do the same thing on the upper level. Exit the right side.. and all the roaming mobs will be picked up by casters running past them. Go to the door.. gather the 4 mobs.. Pop Divine Shield. Open the door... run to Whitemane.. pull her.. run back out of cath.. this time taking the opposite side of the courtyard. I pull all the mobs to the original hallway.. but JUST barely inside.. so as to LOS the casters. By then.. i'm usually down to 2k health.. and I pop the collosus. Full health. Seal of Wisdom is active.. so as to regen my mana... while popping max rank Consecrate & Holy shield.

Again... the key to surviving the pull is the strafe run... followed by Collossus.

I do SM from lvl20 to lvl 45. Then head to strath. Going in the service entrance I am able to basically 4 pull all the streets. Ignoring Live side & Undead side respectively. The streets are worth about 70k honor (with RAF).. and takes about 15m. It would probalby be a little too hard to describe but I'll try if ya'll are interested. This took me to lvl59 where I stopped so I could level more alts.