$2200.00 Budget..what should I do?

[Lyonheart]

Building a new PC ( or having one built.)

I have spent hours searching for deals..what componets work well together ect.. Im still undesided on which way to go. When i price componets at newegg i get only about 100-200 dollars top savings ( thats not enough to do it myself and not have the warranty that comes with a builder)

So for 2200ish i will be 5 boxing Rift and 10 boxing WoW at some point. So what i would like in the build..

2600k OCd by 20%
16GBs Of good ram
A good and reliable SLI MB ( only using one card atm but might sli later )
580gtx 3GB ram
not sure which way to go with HDs..help me out.( SSD or raptor ).I know i need one for gaming and a big one for storage..
blue ray drive and something to make DvDs/Audi files on disc..etc..( do i need two drives? )
a power supply that will handle two 580GTXs in the future
a good/cool case

Did i miss anything?

Just having a hard time deciding which way to go.. or who to buy from...8(

I live in between DC/Richmond area if that helps ( in case one of you are a local builder hehe )

[Lyonheart]

i wanted to add that I will be buying a 24inch monitor..keyboard and mouse separately.

[Sam DeathWalker]

See the 2nd post on my forum "DeathWalker's Unlimited Money Recommended Multiboxing Computer"

48G ram ...

Just get velociraptor (400 or 600G).

The 580gtx is better then what I recomend and 3G is the way to go, but also more expensive. But then ram is only $900 or so now so you have a bit extra.

Its a server with server ram but if you really want a computer with no texture lag .....

Or you can wait until 8G chips are available for regular motherboards.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

If you're doing $2200 worth of build, I might suggest building TWO computers so you can divide the workload. You'll get more performance out of two 85% PCs than one 110% PC, IMO.

[Oatboat]

2200 bux. Vegas?

[Ualaa]

Just to be clear, the monitor, keyboard and mouse are separate from the $2200?

[Starbuck_Jones]

Im going with Ugh on this one. 6 years ago when I built my set up. I went with Dell. True I worked for them but I as able to get 5 computers for $3200 and that included 5 monitors. I have since had 1 of them totally fail beyond reasonable cost of repair, and two others I gave away as gifts when it turned out that each box could handle 4 instances of wow. This was before the Dalaran and now Cata requirements but they still dual box just fine.

Use Input Director to KVM them together and KeyClone or Innerspace. But you will be much happier with awesome performance from 2 or 3 boxes than great performance from one. The game is still new, but if it lasts at all and its requirements grow, you will be better off not having to spend more money to keep up.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Not to mention with two PCs, you won't have to fight SLI/Crossfire compatibility/stability/performance issues.

[Slayerjerman]

Go with two PCs.

Definitely go with small-ish SSD drives for your OS and Gaming drives. I already had several Sata drives and a WD raptor for storage. The Raptor is great, but not as great as the SSD, especially in Win7. Also, you will never need or use 16GB of RAM in one system, its better cost-wise to do 4GBx2 in each system and get the extra only if you need it. The six-core CPUs are very nice to have, but if you want to cut costs, the 4-core's are plenty powerful. SLI'd or videocards with tons of RAM will not net you any significant performance, what you want is raw GPU power for rendering multiple windows/ game clients.

The system i built below can run 5x Rift on its own, two of them is a bit overkill TBH.

Here's what I built last month on $2400 bux off NewEgg


2 EVGA SuperClocked 012-P3-1572-AR GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support ... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130595)Item #: N82E16814130595

VGA Replacement Only Return PolicyFor Tech Support 888/881-EVGA (3842) $719.98
($359.99 ea)
2 AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT90ZFBGRBOX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103849)Item #: N82E16819103849

CPU Replacement Only Return Policy $399.98
($199.99 ea)
2 ASUS M4A87TD EVO AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131647)Item #: N82E16813131647

Standard Return PolicyFor Asus Tech Support, Please Call 502-995-0883 or http://helpdesk.asus.com/ $219.98
($109.99 ea)
2 Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 140mm ... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153)Item #: N82E16811147153

Standard Return Policy $109.98
($54.99 ea)
2 Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148348)Item #: N82E16820148348

Limited Replacement Only Return Policy $399.98
($199.99 ea)
2 Antec TruePower New TP-750 Blue 750W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.3 / EPS12V V2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE ... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371022)Item #: N82E16817371022

Standard Return Policy $259.98
($129.99 ea)
2 LG DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH24NS70 - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136236)Item #: N82E16827136236

Standard Return Policy $41.98
($20.99 ea)
2 COOLER MASTER Hyper N 520 RR-920-N520-GP 92mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Intel Core i7 compatible (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103057)Item #: N82E16835103057

Standard Return Policy $59.98
($29.99 ea)
2 Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104173)Item #: N82E16820104173

Memory Standard Return Policy $185.98
($92.99 ea)
2 BYTECC Bracket-35225 2.5 Inch HDD/SSD Mounting Kit For 3.5" Drive Bay or Enclosure (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994085)Item #: N82E16817994085

Standard Return Policy $11.96
($5.98 ea)

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya my suggestion is if you insist on one computer but multiple mid level computers for the same total price will always be better then one super computer at the same price, I have 6 computers.

Although if its for 5 boxing or less 48G ram on one computer might still do better then multiple computers (but he can 3 or 4 for that much with older parts), as he will have the whole wow folder in ram. You just might not want to be stuck with a server computer.

[eauxfolles]

Actually I plan to go with a similar setup, so I have exactly the same components in my mind. Two things I'm thinking about...

- Regarding SSD I'm not sure yet if I should go with 2 drives (one for OS, one for games).
- With the 3 GB version of the GTX 580 I'm not sure if the additional memory is useful at all.

But apart from that... same box.

[mikekim]

Actually I plan to go with a similar setup, so I have exactly the same components in my mind. Two things I'm thinking about...

- Regarding SSD I'm not sure yet if I should go with 2 drives (one for OS, one for games).
- With the 3 GB version of the GTX 580 I'm not sure if the additional memory is useful at all.

But apart from that... same box.

running an ssd for the os will speed up your startup and shudown times, and the opening of programs. depends if you are impatient :p

an ssd for the games on the other hand is a must.

the 3gb version of the 580 will help alot if you are 10 boxing on one card, no real benefit on 5 box setup

[Tonuss]

48GB of memory is severe overkill. 8GB should do fine for four or five copies of WOW, and if you find that to be a bit tight, just double it to 16GB. RAM costs are rising a bit, but are still pretty low.

And I would also agree with building two less powerful systems as opposed to a single more powerful system. I don't know if you can do it for $2,200, but it's possible you can even do it for less depending on where you decide to make trade-offs. Just as a quick rundown of some prices (via Newegg):

Core i7-2600 is $300, Core i5-2400 is $185 (or $370 for two).
3GB 580GTX is $540-590, 1GB Radeon 5770 is $120 (or $240 for two).
128GB SSD can be as low as $150-200, 750GB 6Gbps/64MB 7200RPM SATA drive is $70 (or two for $140).

And so on. Again, it depends on how much you are willing to give up (you may feel that the 5770 just isn't going to cut it, for example). If you prefer a single machine (for reasons of space, or heat, etc) then a Core i7-2500K can provide the horsepower you need (and then some, since the "K" models are easy to overclock) at a savings of around $60.

[Lyonheart]

Just to be clear, the monitor, keyboard and mouse are separate from the $2200?

yes..most the sites do not have the new logitech that has the 18 Gkeys like the old G11 or G15s had.. thinks it called G510. And it also seems like the monitors they sell are over priced. So I will just get those via newegg i guess.

Also.. i will not have room for two PCs.. i will only have room for one and a single monitor ( I'm used to using two monitor set ups.. but space in limited in my room ( roommate situation ) When i get my own place, I will look into getting a 2nd PC. But for now I just need one good enough to 5 box Rift comfortably. ( 10 boxing WoW is down the road a bit )

And thank you guys for all the replies!

[Ashley]

If you want to save some money you can get 4 HDD's in a RAID0 array, this has like 250MB/s writes and 280MB/s reads, which basically means 500gb 'SSD' equivalent for about £800 less. There is a slightly higher chance of a fault, but, minor really.

So, a 500GB set up that's very nearly an equivalent to an SSD for only £120.

Debunk all the myths people will try and tell you though, we're in 2011 now, not 2000.

Only problem with this set up is that it's heavier, requires a proper RAID card, and probably slightly warmer.


-- This is what I'll be doing. Maybe using drives smaller than 500gb though so I don't feel reluctant to store all my data there.

[Ashley]

P.s. people mention the i7-2600k but not the i7-970 that has six cores?

[Lyonheart]

P.s. people mention the i7-2600k but not the i7-970 that has six cores?

From what i have read, the Sandy Bridge CPUs are better..run very cool, even when OCd. And are best CPUs for games?
Not sure, If I'm wrong..fill me in!

[Tonuss]

The Sandy Bridge versions are faster, even when comparing quad versus hex cores. If you want to overclock, they seem to have a fair amount of headroom for it. And the "K" versions are multiplier-unlocked, meaning that you can increase the multiplier instead of the bus speed, which can result in more stable overclocking. They are much cheaper as well, if I am not mistaken.

As for a RAID array, if you are worried about the lack of fault tolerance, just go with a RAID-5 setup. A dedicated RAID card should have support for RAID-5. You lose some drive space but gain redundancy; if a drive fails the array can continue to operate until you replace the bad drive, and you won't lose any data. The dedicated card adds to your costs, but it can provide a very nice performance boost via less expensive SATA drives.

[Sam DeathWalker]

48G is not "overkill". You are going to put the entire wow folder into a ram disk (5 clients will take maybe 5G or less and the OS about 2G.), so that you don't need SSD. System Ram is WAY better then SSD.

3G video ram is also not overkill ....

Read the other threads on the front page here. Even SSD has only 20Mb/sec when accessing 4K random chunks like wow does with random textures. All this talk of 400Mb/sec etc. just only happens during loading and zoneing, during running around in Org your SSD is down to 20Mb/sec and raid Velociraptors are down to under 4Mb/sec .....

Look at the chart "4K"

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1437&pageID=5993


Not sure what system ram is during 4K random chunks but its going to be WAY WAY faster then 20Mb/sec


http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=44099

[Ashley]

As for a RAID array, if you are worried about the lack of fault tolerance,

My angle on it was that, why buy an SSD (zero fault tolerance) when you can make an equally as fast (if not faster*) Quad RAID0. If you're installing WoW onto it and other applications then you don't need fault tolerance providing you keep your saved files elsewhere.


@Sam: Cool you've got 48GB of RAM, loading an entire copy of WoW into it might actually be against the TOS lolz. Isn't that how Glider got done over? Anyway, not saying you will get done but, the way WoW has been written has improved efficiency A LOT and long gone were the days of loading screens when zoning from Elwynn into Redridge.

The only benefit I see of 48GB of RAM to load WoW into is so you get an extra 30 seconds of buff time in WSG lol............................................... ...............................

[Sam DeathWalker]

Its just a ram disk, I doubt that it would be against the ToS as you are not decompiling or using the wow folder in ram for any other purpose then high speed. The game itself loads textures into system ram ...

Ya but its not the loading times that is the big advantage, its the fact that 4K textures can get to the video card almost instantly when you encounter a new character running through org or in BG's etc.

Texture loading is what casues lag when you run through org as when a new toon comes into view naturally you have to load its textures.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Ya but its not the loading times that is the big advantage, its the fact that 4K textures can get to the video card almost instantly when you encounter a new character running through org or in BG's etc.

Texture loading is what casues lag when you run through org as when a new toon comes into view naturally you have to load its textures.
Very true.

[Lyonheart]

Sooo.. ill have only 1500.00 to start.. had some money hiccups 8(..this build is to get me going ( I'm going nutzo having to go to the mall to play hehe ) I will upgrade the 8GB ram to 16 in a few weeks ( getting 2x8GB to start ) I have a 480GTX i stole from my last PC, and my 300GB raptor HD ..which has all my game/isboxer files on it rtg!

Is the 2600K a definite improvement for my needs ( multiboxing ) over the 2500K ? because if not.. that will save me some money and allow me to upgrade faster in a few weeks

I chose Digital Storm because they have a sale atm, and i have read lots of great reviews about them. Hard to beat the price and service from what i can find.

Specifications:
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K 3.40GHz (Unlocked CPU for Extreme Overclocking) (Quad Core)
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO (Intel Z68 Chipset) (Features Intel Quick Sync Technology)
System Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series (Highly Recommended) (Hand Tested)
Power Supply: 750W Digital Storm Certified (Dual SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition Recommended)
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (1TB Hitachi/Seagate (7200 RPM) (32MB Cache)
Optical Drive 1: Blu-Ray Player/DVD Player (Play Blu-Ray and Play DVDs)
Optical Drive 2: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x)
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 1x NVIDIA GeForce GT 430 1GB (Includes PhysX Technology)
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 1: High Performance Cooler (Compatible With i5/i7/AMD Processors)
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Boost Processor: FREE: Overclock the processor between 3.3GHz to 3.9GHz
Boost OS: FREE: Yes, Disable and tweak all of the non-crucial services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium (64-Bit Edition)
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows 7 CD)
Warranty: Life-time Expert Customer Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty

[Grail]

Another thing that might help you make a decision is that the 6 core sandy bridges will be out within the year. So, you might want to go with the 2500K now, save some money, and then upgrade to the 6 core when it arrives. If you even need to.

Good Luck Lyonheart !

-Grail

[MiRai]

Video Card: 1x NVIDIA GeForce GT 430 1GB (Includes PhysX Technology)
Is that seriously the video card they're trying to sell you? I think you should probably Google a few benchmarks...

If you change from a GTX 580 to that prepare to be seriously let down. You won't be multiboxing your way out
of a cardboard box with a GT 430.

Another thing that might help you make a decision is that the 6 core sandy bridges will be out within the year. So, you might want to go with the 2500K now, save some money, and then upgrade to the 6 core when it arrives. If you even need to.

Good Luck Lyonheart !

-Grail
As far as I know, 6 core processors will be for LGA 2011, not LGA 1155.

[Grail]

Hi Fenril,

I had the impression on the video card that he was going to supply his own from another machine, and he just had to take something or they wouldn't sell him the rig. So he probably just took the least expensive. Of course, I could be wrong, and it is best you brought up the question.

*edit* Wanting to check on Fenril's concerns, I did a bunch of googling for you right now Lyonheart, and as sad it makes me right now, my hopes for an 1155 are not as well founded as I thought.

If that idea appeals to you at all though Lyonheart, just ask Digital Storm if putting in a new processor a year from now will compromise the warranty.

-Grail

[MiRai]

Hi Fenril,

I had the impression on the video card that he was going to supply his own from another machine, and he just had to take something or they wouldn't sell him the rig. So he probably just took the least expensive. Of course, I could be wrong, and it is best you brought up the question.
You're right he mentions keeping the GTX 480.


Also, I did read 6 core sandy bridges were coming for 1155 and we wouldn't have to wait for Ivy Bridge. However, just right now, I can't quote where I read it.
I would love to read that article.

[Lyonheart]

Thx guys! I am going to go with 2500k OCd for now.. it saves me a chunk of change and will let me do some upgrades in a few weeks faster ( 580GTX 3GB and sell my 480gtx ) and more ram if needed.

[wyofiddler]

Fenril has mentioned several times that Crossfire/SLI is a poor choice for multiboxing, and I really appreciate hearing that because I was wondering about that myself.

From all I've read here on this thread and others, it sounds like it is not possible to force, say 3 clients onto one graphics card, and the other 2 clients onto the other graphics card, but rather all five clients try to use both cards (or not, if WoW doesn't support SLI at all) at the same time.

If you go two computers instead of one, how does the system play? Do you have one mouse that scrolls seemlessly across multiple screens like the single computer with dual monitors I run now, with IS boxer pip-swapping windows in and out or is it more like running two comps, with two monitors, two mice, two keyboards etc? I really like the performance side of this option, but I started boxing one toon on my desktop with another running on the laptop next to me and moved away from that as soon as I could; I don't really want to go back to what for me is a less intuitive setup.


TL/DR: boxing on more than one computer - can it be seemless or will it always be clunky using two machines?

[MiRai]

Fenril has mentioned several times that Crossfire/SLI is a poor choice for multiboxing, and I really appreciate hearing that because I was wondering about that myself.
The only reason I keep touting this is because there has yet to be a group of people who actually claim, and
can prove, that they truly see any significant increase in performance while using SLI/CF. In helping people
troubleshoot multiboxing issues throughout the years, I have run into numerous people who have had SLI/CF
enabled, and disabling it has always fixed any issues they've had. This is just in my experience and could of
course be different for others yet many agree with not using SLI/CF.


From all I've read here on this thread and others, it sounds like it is not possible to force, say 3 clients onto one graphics card, and the other 2 clients onto the other graphics card, but rather all five clients try to use both cards (or not, if WoW doesn't support SLI at all) at the same time.
I have yet to actually figure this out 100%. While WoW natively supports using different monitors (prior to that
it could be accomplished through Inner Space), in my quick test with two GTX 570's I was unable to get WoW
to actually use any of the second GPU's VRAM. I will be honest that I did not test this as thorough as I possibly
could have before I just opted to get a much stronger GPU instead.


Do you have one mouse that scrolls seemlessly across multiple screens like the single computer with dual monitors I run now, with IS boxer pip-swapping windows in and out or is it more like running two comps, with two monitors, two mice, two keyboards etc? I really like the performance side of this option, but I started boxing one toon on my desktop with another running on the laptop next to me and moved away from that as soon as I could; I don't really want to go back to what for me is a less intuitive setup.
People use software KM's (KVM w/o the V) to accomplish using a single mouse/keyboard between multiple
machines at the same time. Input Director (http://www.inputdirector.com/) would be my recommendation if you're able to use Windows on
both machines. If you're running different OS's on these machines then your next choice would probably be
Synergy although many have reported that Synergy can act up at times while multiboxing.

[wyofiddler]

I have yet to actually figure this out 100%. While WoW natively supports using different monitors (prior to that
it could be accomplished through Inner Space), in my quick test with two GTX 570's I was unable to get WoW
to actually use any of the second GPU's VRAM. I will be honest that I did not test this as thorough as I possibly
could have before I just opted to get a much stronger GPU instead.

Do you know if the computer was using all the processing power of the two cards, just not utilizing the VRAM, or if it was only using/recognizing the presence of one card? You said it was a quick test so I totally understand if you didn't pry that closely, but the way you said VRAM made me wonder....

Totally brainstorming here without having done much (any) research, but I would be really curious if a system could have two graphics cards, maybe even NOT SLI'd together, and software could split the 5 wow client (or Rift client) graphics load onto different cards much like ISBoxer does with picking which core to run the client threads on. As I understand ISBoxer, it's not locked strictly and exclusively to the chosen core alone, it's simply a priority system for distribution of the load across the CPU, but the idea is interesting to me. Of course, it would be even better if I could afford a system like that, but hey, it's fun to think about :)

[MiRai]

Do you know if the computer was using all the processing power of the two cards, just not utilizing the VRAM, or if it was only using/recognizing the presence of one card? You said it was a quick test so I totally understand if you didn't pry that closely, but the way you said VRAM made me wonder....
From what I remember it seemed to be using some (very little) of the second GPU's actual power. The second
GPU was definitely not idle, but was nowhere near being fully utilized despite having 3 game Windows
supposedly attached to it.


Totally brainstorming here without having done much (any) research, but I would be really curious if a system could have two graphics cards, maybe even NOT SLI'd together, and software could split the 5 wow client (or Rift client) graphics load onto different cards much like ISBoxer does with picking which core to run the client threads on. As I understand ISBoxer, it's not locked strictly and exclusively to the chosen core alone, it's simply a priority system for distribution of the load across the CPU, but the idea is interesting to me. Of course, it would be even better if I could afford a system like that, but hey, it's fun to think about :)
That is what I was actually talking about was not having the GTX 570's in SLI. During my test they were
separate and I was unable to split the game textures into the two different VRAMs (whatever you want to call
it). This is killing me at this point and I am tempted to just buy another damn card and do further SLI and split
load testing.

IN THE NAME OF MULTIBOXING SCIENCE!

[Ughmahedhurtz]

TL/DR: boxing on more than one computer - can it be seemless or will it always be clunky using two machines?
Well, the answer is, "It Depends(tm)."

For folks who use multiple PCs to 5-box/6-box/single-group-box, we usually run one or two clients on the main (while being able to watch movies on it and do other things at the same time, in addition to having the main's graphics set to gorgeous settings without a performance hit) and the rest of the alts on 1 or more PCs. With FTL setups (in particular, the semi-automatic ones like ISBoxer), you will be able to instantly switch leaders just by moving your mouse to that window with something like Input Director. It's effectively like having more monitors on the same PC with some caveats noted below.

Using ISBoxer as an example, things you will not be able to do with multi-PC setups:

* Swap an alt window from alt PC to main PC.
* Video FX/Video feeds/etc.
* Reliable, painless mouselook/camera-panning broadcasting (until this bug (http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=44503) is fixed).

I haven't found any other missing features with multi-PC use so far.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I use 6 machines, I am hardware from key/mouse to each computer then software (Isboxer) between the clients on the same computer so its kinda hybride.

I play full sceen so I don't load my gpu's much and I alt/tab so I have instant switching. But I can only see one client per computer at a time.

Nothing clunky at all if you more then 5 box multiple computers are better I thinks.


Im not saying how I connect 6 computers to one mouse/key but I am working on a "usb splitter" (no easy task I might add), Ill be selling them if it works properly.