Theory Crafting: x4 DK + 1

[daanji]

I've been looking at specs and trying different configurations to min/max the team for damage output and survivability.




1. Scarlet Fever

I've been thinking about using this spec for one of the DKs. With 2/2 Scarlet Fever, it reduces all melee damage by 10%. That should reduce the pressure on our team for our healer a bit.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jchrZGzRrfzRdbu

This of course requires Blood Plague to be on the target. To control, this I"ve created the following castsequence
and added it to this single DKs spam keys.


#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=21 Horn of Winter, Plague Strike, Pestilence


What this will do is cast Horn of Winter first, then Plague Strike to apply Blood Plague and Scarlet fever. Pestilence is used to spread it to the rest of the opposing team.

Since Horn of Winter is on a 20 second cool down, it will block until for the next 20 seconds (during which time we will do Necrotic Strikes). This is ideal since Blood Plague lasts for 21 seconds.

Thoughts? We are giving up too much to do this? A 10% damage reduction against melee cleaves could be nice.


2. Butchery

I've also been toying with the idea of speccing into Butchery
Butchery 2/2
Whenever you kill an enemy that grants experience or honor, you generate up to 20 Runic Power. In addition, you generate 2 Runic Power per 5 sec while in combat.

On the surface, this doesn't look so good. However, it procs whenever you kill the following

Pets
Shadow Apparitions (5 health)
Minions

Just imagine the opposing team has a shadow priest that is spawning a ton of Shadowy Apparitions. They will easily die to our AoE and grant us free Runic Power

3. Scent of Blood

I've also considered Scent of Blood.

Scent of Blood 3/3
You have a 15% chance after dodging, parrying or taking direct damage to gain the Scent of Blood effect, causing your next 3 melee hits to generate 10 Runic Power.

This would give us a ton of extra Runic Power.

With more runic power from #2 and #3, we can Frost Strike more which will reset our runes more often.


However, we do sacrifice some tasty talents such as Unholy Command and Hand of Doom.

Though, in my experience this team is a 1-minute team. If we fail to kill someone in the first mine, it is almost always going to be a loss. So if we can maximize our burst and sustained damage perhaps we can kill more reliably.

[remanz]

Though, in my experience this team is a 1-minute team. If we fail to kill someone in the first mine, it is almost always going to be a loss. So if we can maximize our burst and sustained damage perhaps we can kill more reliably.

You said yourself. 1min team. Its all out offense or die trying. Don't really need the tank talents.

10% melee damage deduction is not needed as your DKs don't lose to melee cleaves. You are the best cleaves in the game. Unless the other side got 4 warriors or something.

Other blood talents, they are not a game changer but probably not as good as reduce CD on death grip and + disease damage.

[Shodokan]

I like the scent for blood as it gives me more frost strikes which is more offense. I won over 20 games in a row after switching to a spec with 3/3 into that against teams i was having problems with before with decent AOE damage.

[daanji]

I like the scent for blood as it gives me more frost strikes which is more offense. I won over 20 games in a row after switching to a spec with 3/3 into that against teams i was having problems with before with decent AOE damage.

That is what I was thinking too. Combined that with Butchery...more Frost strike, more offense.
I'll try different specs and see if my dps increases at all.


Does anyone know if Death Grip resets when you get a killing blow on Shadowy Apparitions?
Might be a nice tactic to try - target apparitions kill them to get a Death Grip Reset.


Also, what is everyone's thoughts on Virulence (30% disease increase), it could add a bit more pressure but doesn't do a lot of damage.

[Kruschpakx4]

You are the best cleaves in the game. Unless the other side got 4 warriors or something.



NOT FUNNY http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/arena/stormscale/5v5/ulticleave/

[Multibocks]

Did you lose to them? :)

[Toned]

I use scent of blood

[Kruschpakx4]

Did you lose to them? :)

no^^ but just saw a few days again there were 8 warriors and a resto shaman in that team

[Noids]

I have lost to a melee cleave team. It was a 2 heals team with 2wars and a frost dk. I could not believe the rate at which my health dropped, even with poh spam. The wars would end each game on 400k damage with the dk on 300. Even the rr hungering cold trick wouldn't work due to ams and blade storm. After the third loss trying a few variations in tactics I switched all dks to blood and didn't see them again.

I recently switched out of virulence and desecration into Blade barrier and hand of doom. This was mainly to get the 1min cool down on strangulate and work with some macros so I can cast strangulate on my focus (healer1) every 5 seconds (on 2dks) and at my target (healer2) every 5 seconds also. I have also built in all of my cool downs into my opening hb spam so I have 10seconds of unccable dps on a healer or caster dps with healers effectively cced.

[Mosg2]

Yeah, I did the same with my DPS key. Getting that initial huge DPS boost from Ghoul, Pillar of Frost, Trinket etc is huge while you have AMS and Lichborne up.

[Shodokan]

I have lost to a melee cleave team. It was a 2 heals team with 2wars and a frost dk. I could not believe the rate at which my health dropped, even with poh spam. The wars would end each game on 400k damage with the dk on 300. Even the rr hungering cold trick wouldn't work due to ams and blade storm. After the third loss trying a few variations in tactics I switched all dks to blood and didn't see them again.

I recently switched out of virulence and desecration into Blade barrier and hand of doom. This was mainly to get the 1min cool down on strangulate and work with some macros so I can cast strangulate on my focus (healer1) every 5 seconds (on 2dks) and at my target (healer2) every 5 seconds also. I have also built in all of my cool downs into my opening hb spam so I have 10seconds of unccable dps on a healer or caster dps with healers effectively cced.

Kill the DK for melee cleaves

This is my kill priority list for cleaves.

Dk > rogue > feral > warrior > ret

DKs have rampup time on their defensive cooldowns so its best to gib them from the start.

[Ualaa]

This was mainly to get the 1min cool down on strangulate and work with some macros so I can cast strangulate on my focus (healer1) every 5 seconds (on 2dks) and at my target (healer2) every 5 seconds also. I have also built in all of my cool downs into my opening hb spam so I have 10seconds of unccable dps on a healer or caster dps with healers effectively cced.

I like that idea a lot.
It should really help against double-healer teams.

[Toned]

Kill the DK for melee cleaves

This is my kill priority list for cleaves.

Dk > rogue > feral > warrior > ret

DKs have rampup time on their defensive cooldowns so its best to gib them from the start.


I go War > DK > Rogue > Feral > Ret

You can gibbed warriors before they shield wall if you come out hard and fast on them and silence before the shieldwall.

[Ualaa]

Thinking of trying Scent of Blood a bit.
Two questions...

A) 2/3 Blade Barrier & 3/3 Bladed Armor or 3/3 Blade Barrier and 2/3 Bladed Armor.
B) 3/3 Scent of Blood or 2/3 Scent of Blood & 1/2 On a Pale Horse

I like the 1/2 Pale Horse, as it puts the DK's very close in mounted speed (5% slower) than the Pally, so I can lead with the Pally in BG's and basically run half the map before a DK drops follow.

[Shodokan]

Thinking of trying Scent of Blood a bit.
Two questions...

A) 2/3 Blade Barrier & 3/3 Bladed Armor or 3/3 Blade Barrier and 2/3 Bladed Armor.
B) 3/3 Scent of Blood or 2/3 Scent of Blood & 1/2 On a Pale Horse

I like the 1/2 Pale Horse, as it puts the DK's very close in mounted speed (5% slower) than the Pally, so I can lead with the Pally in BG's and basically run half the map before a DK drops follow.

Unholy aura makes you move 15% faster as is, counts mounted and does not stack with OPH

[Ualaa]

I don't believe Unholy Presence (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48265) (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48265) increases mounted speed.
The spell effects, show three effects with the movement portion specifically saying Run Speed.
Or if it does, then Pursuit of Justice is calculated in such a way that a Paladin not using Crusader Aura is consistently faster than 0/2 On a Pale Horse + Unholy Presence.

The second question (B), is more a convenience vs effect question.
Scent of Blood is absolutely mechanically stronger in every way.
But similar movement speed is nice in battlegrounds, which is 98% of my PvP experience.

I'm more interested in the first question.

Which is stronger... 2 additional attack power per 180 armor or 2% damage reduction when both Death Runes are on cooldown.
It seems that Howling Blast uses Frost Runes before Death Runes, Necrotic Strike uses Unholy Runes before Death Runes and Obliterate also uses fixed runes before Death Runes... so the 4/6% reduction is up less than I would think it should be.

[daanji]

I've been testing out my new spec with "Scent of Blood". Overall, I like it and I feel it gives me a lot more runic power.

In fact, it seems that I have a bit too much. My frost strikes are going so often that my Necrotic Strike doesn't go and my Unholy Runes are left up for far too long.

After considering the talents again and reviewing many PvP articles and top-end Frost DKs, I decided to try this spec out.


http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jMhhZGcRrfzRd0ub:Mma0qb0mM


In this spec, I opted NOT to take the "Improve Frost Presence" talent. The only benefit is provides is 4% RP generation is retained and I believe we get a lot more from "Scent of Blood" procs.

I haven't done the math, so correct me if I'm wrong.


Instead, I put the points into "Annihilation" and picked up the Glyph of Obliterate.


I'll test this out tonight and see if it helps making the first kill.


My main strategy is to start dps on a plate-wearing target, then mass-death grip, mass strangulate, switch targets and do Empower Rune Weapon + Obliterate + Hungering Cold + Arcane Torrent on round-robin for the initial kill.

I'm thinking with the above spec the burst from 3 obliterate in a row should kill anything.

[Darm]

What's the general consensus on priority for a Frost DK these days?


At the start of the fight, each DK has 2 death runes, 2 frost runes, and 2 unholy runes.

Should the priority be aimed to get 4 necrotic strikes and 2 howling blasts? Or the other way around, with 2 necrotic strikes and 4 howling blasts? Or 3 of each?

[Noids]

I prioritise howling blast over necrotic strike. Being a ranged spell is so important for early pressure and I actually prioritise frost strike over necrotic strike when in melee to try and get the first kill.

My only other rotation is single target dps which rotated hungering cold and opens with outbreak and empower rune weapon then unloads 3 x obliterates. If I am playing a melee heavy team I will open with the howling blasts then when I get targets in melee will convert to the single target rotation. I often find that switching my target after the initial salvo will quite often overload or confuse the healers to the point that my second target dies without a heal.

[Darm]

I prioritise howling blast over necrotic strike. Being a ranged spell is so important for early pressure and I actually prioritise frost strike over necrotic strike when in melee to try and get the first kill.

My only other rotation is single target dps which rotated hungering cold and opens with outbreak and empower rune weapon then unloads 3 x obliterates. If I am playing a melee heavy team I will open with the howling blasts then when I get targets in melee will convert to the single target rotation. I often find that switching my target after the initial salvo will quite often overload or confuse the healers to the point that my second target dies without a heal.

What's your spec? I'm asking since I thought the traditional way of spec'ing DK x4 meant that some of the talents that improved Obliterate (Annihiation mainly) are skipped, but maybe I missed something along the way.

[Ualaa]

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=37658

I've got three, but mainly use two priority sequences.

A) Howling Strike -- Howling Strike > Frost Strike > Necrotic Strike
This has Mind Freeze built into it, as close to one Mind Freeze on the kill target, every 2.5 seconds as possible.
It has IWT for the melee toons, on every press.
It has Howling Blast on Press.
It has Howling Blast x1, Frost Strike x2 and Necrotic Strike x1 on release (meaning 25% chance for HB, 25% chance for NS and 50% chance for FS, assuming it was on GCD on a press and is not on a release).
If on a given press or release, the rune is not available or the runic power is not available nothing happens.
I spam at 2.5 clicks per second, so 2.5 down events and 2.5 up events per second.

B) Obliterate Spam -- Obliterate > Frost Strike
This also has Mind Freeze and the IWT, on every press.
This is combined with the Hungering Cold, which I manually manage.
I will use Outbreak with this, as Obliterate hits harder against diseased targets.
I use usually save the Runic Empowerment for this one, as it is another three Obliterates in quick succession.

[Darm]

What is the conventional wisdom regarding gems and enchants for a 4 DK setup?

It seems to me that the conventional wisdom regarding solo DKs that resilience is still an excellent stat, and if you look at the top DKs, you can see 3600+ resilience.

Does that sort of strategy to gem/enchant for high resilience still make sense for 4 DKs? Or is still just more about Str/haste (after capping hit and spell pen) ?

[Ualaa]

I've gone with:

Red = 40 Str
Yellow = 40 Res.
Blue = 50 Sp.Pen

So far I've got just the right number of Blue sockets.
If I had an extra blue socket, I'd probably go 60 Sta.

I put a 40 Res gem into the prismatic socket on the bet.

[Shodokan]

I have nearly 3700 resil... resil helps... A LOT