You've read my computer woes

[Malgor]

Here. (http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=42389)

Now I need some suggestions on what to try.

I ordered a new rig, which will take a week or so to get here, but in the mean time I'm back on an old computer which is only able to accomodate two instances of WOW and won't run RIFT.

When I got my computer back from the shop they had freshly installed windows on it.

I reinstalled everything and it seemed to work fine. Each day there would be a new windows update, which I assumed was just trying to catch me up with all the ones I deleted when I reformatted. With the last windows update my computer started blue screening again, so I figure it's got to be something with that update. I am finally able to restrore back to a previous date and it all seems fine again, so I turn off widows updates completely.

Yesterday, I let it update something with microsoft LIVECAM. I started playing a new map I'd downloaded for StarCraft II. Halfway through the map SCII crashed, so figured it was that map and tried playing a different one I play all the time. Crashed SCII again. Tried a third time and it crashed to Bluescreen.

When it rebooted I choose to have it boot up in Safe Mode since I was planning to do a restore to the day before again and see if that helped.

But, nada. Won't boot up at all. The power seems to run the DVD drive on start up. I can feel the HD doing some work, but nothing happens. Nothing at all comes up on the screen. I try booting it up about 10 times, nothing.

I pull out the two video cards and take out the battery on the motherboard to reset the bios.
I remove half the ram and leave in just 6 gigs.
I reseat all my connections.
I put one video card back in and try booting it up and still, power goes to the components, but nothing happens.
I connect an extra HD that I have, which is filled with pictures, movies, etc that I use to back stuff up via a dock, and you can feel it spin, but it doesn't give any signal to the monitors that I am aware of.

What are the possible problems now?

Fried MB?
Fried RAM?
Fried HD?
Fried eggs?

Thanks again,

Mal

[Malgor]

Well I decided to try and take everything out again and put it back.

I was able to reboot it and take it back again to a previous version and it seems to be running again.

Sill have the new computer coming. Computers for me seem to last about three years and this one is no acception.

[MiRai]

I don't exactly remember what was talked about in the previous troubleshooting thread (and I'm slightly lazy at the moment to
double check) but blue screens are most likely caused by hardware. You can turn off the auto-restart function of Windows when
you get a blue screen so you can see the actual error and then Google it. If it wasn't suggested in the previous thread I can't
stress enough that if someone is getting a blue screen to run memtest86 (http://www.memtest86.com/). It's a free program which stress tests your memory
and will find any errors that you have. If you get errors on a certain stick then you need to swap around sticks to double check
whether you have a faulty motherboard bank or whether it's the actual stick itself.

If that comes up clean then my next guess would be a PSU. If you don't have a spare one lying around it's pretty difficult to
troubleshoot one of these unless you want to purchase a digital multimeter to start measuring voltages since most of the time
software and even the BIOS reporting a voltage can be incorrect.

Memory and PSU are 2 things that can cause a lot of unforeseen errors. When Windows is sitting on the desktop or you're
using MS Word it's not pushing the system. When you start to play a game more memory gets used and the PSU has to
actually begin to push more voltage though it. That's when shit usually goes wrong, when hardware has to actually work.

Troubleshooting hardware can be a very long and tedious process and most find it easier (or cheaper) to just purchase another
rig instead of jump through the hoops. It's also why people usually like their pre-built systems and full coverage warranties for
the same reasons, ultimately it can end up being much less of a hassle when something like this occurs.

[Malgor]

Thanks Fenril.

I took out everything and unplugged everything internally. Then I slowly and painstakingly put it all back together. I made sure the memory sticks were all seated properly before firing it back up, and sure enough it booted.

I did exactly what you said and ordered a new rig. I figure 1500 bucks every 3 years is a small price to pay for what I use as my main source of entertainment.

Thanks again.

Mal

[ElectronDF]

I use multiple computers, so I kinda have a few spare parts laying around when I upgrade them. The MB is the hardest to change, so I would put that last. The easiest is ram. But that is expensive to buy it and if it doesn't fix it, then have to return it. Maybe you have a local computer store that you can buy a power supply and ram and ask for a return policy. If one fixes it, return the other, if neither fix it, return them both.

I don't think a HD would be a problem that would crash a computer. It might lose your data, but not really crash.

You should do a backup to a good state. So if you can when you get the new computer, do a backup before you do anything, no AV, no spyware, no nothing, just a straight backup. That way if something doesn't work out right (update, install, etc), you can get back to the start. My software tries to do an incremental backup (adds newer parts onto the old ones), so I just renamed the old one so it will be there unmodified so I can always go back to it. Need to do a full Windows install? Bam, just the time to do a restore and you are back in business. Also I would do another seperate backup when you have about 95% of your stuff on. WOW, AV, spyware, other games, etc. That way as long as everything works, you can get back to where you need to be really quickly.

But mostly do an incremental backup about once a week or two. I won't take long and HDs are cheap. I would suggest an external, so almost nothing can crash it.

You might check things that don't take work, just time. Install a video card or hardware temp/load monitor. I use GPU-Z and/or MSI Afterburner and/or Windows 7 gadget "GPU observer". Maybe your computer or video card is overheating. Maybe it is overclocked and your MB doesn't like it. Maybe it only crashes when you are under full load of stuff. Maybe you only crash when you fill up all your RAM. Just turn on computer and don't touch it with power savings turned off. Let it run for 1-2 days. Anything happen? Load up just a game and don't play it. Pick a time for how long to watch it (1-5 hours). Does anything happen? See if there is a demo (cinematic for video or gameplay for CPU and GPU loading) that you can use to load up the CPU so you don't have to be there. Let it run for a time (1-5 hours). Does it work?

Other things that might make things odd, drivers. That is when you can go back to just Windows fresh with no drivers and try stuff. They shouldn't crash. It will run slow as hell, and some, very few but some things might make it crash, but usually just runs slower. Then if things work, then try to update a few drivers. Like maybe sound and MB. Then try again, if things work, update some more. When you get a crash, backup a step and see if it was the newly installed software/drivers.

There are so many things that can go wrong, it is hard to narrow it down. Sorry. I just think of it like programming. Start off with something so small, it can't break. Test the hell out of it and then add more. When something breaks, you know it was in something you just added. Also for me in programming, I like to compartmentalize things, so you have 90% that works. The part that breaks is only in a section that is seperate. For computers, at least you have Windows, it might be slow, but at least it works. Then add more and more to make it work better.

Hope you find something. It sucks to find nothing and always wonder what it was.

[Apps]

I don't exactly remember what was talked about in the previous troubleshooting thread (and I'm slightly lazy at the moment to
double check) but blue screens are most likely caused by hardware. You can turn off the auto-restart function of Windows when
you get a blue screen so you can see the actual error and then Google it. If it wasn't suggested in the previous thread I can't
stress enough that if someone is getting a blue screen to run memtest86 (http://www.memtest86.com/). It's a free program which stress tests your memory
and will find any errors that you have. If you get errors on a certain stick then you need to swap around sticks to double check
whether you have a faulty motherboard bank or whether it's the actual stick itself.


Memory and PSU are 2 things that can cause a lot of unforeseen errors.



I agree with Fenril. 99% of the time Bluescreens are Memory related dumps. Loosing memory can be heat related, the stick itself, the mobo socket, poor CPU connections... etc etc. Again, agreeing with Fenril here, start with the software to check your system. Then (1) single GOOD, and KNOWN good, RAM stick. perform same check. If it comes back ok, you are likely looking at a power problem or a load problem. If it comes back bad... then you could be RAM or the RAM slot on the Mobo, and STILL could be a power problem.

I have built my own PCs for more than 13 years. I currently have three desktops and a laptop that I maintain.

What is the error you get when you bluescreen?

[Malgor]

Thanks ElectronDF - will try some of that.

Apps. I don't have the exact error right now, but it's actually given me several different errors on the blue screen. It's not always the same one.

One of the last ones I wrote down was:
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
STOP:
0x0000000A, (0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF, 0x000000000000002, 0x000000000000001, 0xFFFFF8000C109C22)

[Apps]

Thanks ElectronDF - will try some of that.

Apps. I don't have the exact error right now, but it's actually given me several different errors on the blue screen. It's not always the same one.

One of the last ones I wrote down was:
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
STOP:
0x0000000A, (0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF, 0x000000000000002, 0x000000000000001, 0xFFFFF8000C109C22)


Ok. thanks. Here is some info about your error. (assuming this is the only one.)



Error Message:
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
Explanation:
This Stop message indicates that a kernel-mode process or driver attempted to access a memory address to which it did not have permission to access. The most common cause of this error is an incorrect or corrupted pointer that references an incorrect location in memory. A pointer is a variable used by a program to refer to a block of memory. If the variable has an incorrect value in it, the program tries to access memory that it should not. When this occurs in a user-mode application, it generates an access violation. When it occurs in kernel mode, it generates a STOP 0x0000000A message. If you encounter this error while upgrading to a newer version of Windows, it might be caused by a device driver, a system service, a virus scanner, or a backup tool that is incompatible with the new version.
User Action:
This error usually occurs after the installation of a buggy device driver, system service, or BIOS. To resolve it quickly, restart your computer, and press F8 at the character-mode menu that displays the operating system choices. At the resulting Windows 2000 Advanced Options menu, choose the Last Known Good Configuration option. This option is most effective when only one driver or service is added at a time. If you encounter this error while upgrading from Windows NT 4.0 or earlier, it might be caused by a device driver, a system service, a virus scanner, or a backup tool that is incompatible with the new version. If possible, remove all third-party device drivers and system services and disable any virus scanners prior to upgrading. Contact the software manufacturers to obtain updates of these tools. For additional error messages that might help pinpoint the device or driver that is causing the error, check the System Log in Event Viewer. Disabling memory caching of the BIOS might also resolve this error. You should also run hardware diagnostics supplied by the system manufacturer, especially the memory scanner. For details on these procedures, see the owners manual for your computer. If your system has small computer system interface (SCSI) adapters, contact the adapter manufacturer to obtain updated Windows 2000 drivers. Disable sync negotiation in the SCSI BIOS, check the cables and the SCSI IDs of each device, and confirm proper termination. For enhanced integrated device electronics (EIDE) devices, define the onboard EIDE port as Primary only. Also, check each EIDE device for the proper master/slave/stand-alone setting. Remove all EIDE devices except for hard disks. If the message appears during an installation of Windows 2000, make sure that the computer and all installed peripherals are listed on the Microsoft Windows 2000 Hardware Compatibility List (HCL) on http://www.microsoft.com (http://www.microsoft.com/isapi/redir.dll?prd=Hardware%20Compatibility%20List&pver=1.0&ar=/hwtest/hcl/). For more troubleshooting information about this Stop message, refer to the Microsoft Knowledge Base at http://support.microsoft.com/support (http://www.microsoft.com/isapi/redir.dll?prd=support&ar=SearchKB).


This would seem to suggest the problem lies with driver conflicts, given you stated a fresh copy of windows is fine, whereas when updating software, you begin to have these errors. Its still possible however, the memory has some defective sections in it.

Yet, it does lean towards elliminating power problems.