5v5 arena Question!

[Skuggomann]

Hi if i buy a 5v5 with 2100 rating can i go in there with my alts ( that have not done enny pvp ) or do i need to have a spesific rating?



I want to:

buy a 5v5 2100 ratign team and loose 10 maches and have aroudn 2000 rating and get 1000 points on my new digned lvl 70's, is that pissible??

[Lynly]

For points, yes. You most definitely can do this. In fact, this is why people are selling arena teams. They start a 5, bring it up to a 2000 rating and then sell it for a few thousand gold. Of course the risk here is that you may end up losing more than 100 points for those 10 losses. It all depends on the teams you face and they all won't be up in the 2000 stratosphere.

On the other hand, if you're going to do this to buy the S3 should and weapon, it won't work since those rating requirements are based on your personal rating, not the team rating. So you'll start out with a personal rating of 1500, but if you keep losing, you're going to drop a lot in the personal rating.

[Ellay]

Ya, you will be losing a lot more points than 100. If the team is 2100 rating, I would guess you'll probably lose about 150-200 points depending on the time of day your playing.
You'll get about 2 maybe 3 weeks out of it, then it will be minimal. Overall probably more cost effective than having to pay for each characters slot on a team they are selling points on.

[Skuggomann]

Ya, you will be losing a lot more points than 100. If the team is 2100 rating, I would guess you'll probably lose about 150-200 points depending on the time of day your playing.
You'll get about 2 maybe 3 weeks out of it, then it will be minimal. Overall probably more cost effective than having to pay for each characters slot on a team they are selling points on.


So best time to play wud be at aroudn 19:00-20:00 gametime? or?

[Ellay]

I would ask someone from a top 20 team on your server, or just ask from the team your buying it from and find out what day and time is most active.

[Silly Gooooose]

yes, you can buy it and do what you say, and get decent points.

Though I would expect to lose more than 100 pts.

150-200

[Vyndree]

Yes, time of day can help you to keep your rating as high as possible for as long as possible. 5's groups typically aren't sold as much as 2's and 3's, I've found. A 3's group will easily hold all of your 5 characters -- just play 2 sets of 5 games on each group of 3.

The trick is to find out when other people are doing the same thing that you are. For my server, that means late at night. You're going up against teams who are expecting to lose because of their sh*tty gear - so why not try to win? If you face these sort of guys, you can easily get your team rating at a stable 2k and your personal rating up some too, if you're lucky with the queues. :)

[Diamndzngunz]

I'm sorry that is cheap as hell. Why fake your way to getting good items rather then just work hard for them?

[yarr]

I'm sorry that is cheap as hell. Why fake your way to getting good items rather then just work hard for them?Because no matter how hard you work you will still have to wait for your measly 250 points per week to add up to 6k+ to get a set of armor. With a higher rated team you can get in excess of 900-1000 points per week. Its not a matter of working harder, but waiting longer. Most of us arent that patient =/

[Electrissy]

I'm sorry that is cheap as hell. Why fake your way to getting good items rather then just work hard for them?I agree with you Diamnd. I'm going the hard work route with my shamans, even though I could easily buy a 2k personal rating for my shamans on Bloodlust. The gear just feels that much sweeter when I earn it.

However, I have to say I personally have helped out friends in my guild with a highly rated team on more than one occasion (I wanted to gear them up so they could arena with me quicker), but not everyone has friends who can pvp ^^ .

[Nitro]

I'm buying points the difference is as large as me being kitted out in 3 months or in 9+ months

I'll use my 5 shammies to farm gold and go the 3 month route.

[empeha]

for points i would suggest following:
1) buy a high rated 5vs5 team.
2) loose 3 matches
3) buy (or play with your regular) 5vs5 team to make 7 games.

buy a 5vs5 high rated team would be more expensive than pay a 5vs5 team to play 7 games a week for you.

[thinus]

Someone said 6k to get a set of armor? You seriously expect someone to wait 20 weeks (5 months!) to get gear? Think about that for a minute or two.

It is not a complete set. There are numerous slots filled with honor gear and you can buy S1 gear with honor as well. You also make the assumption that your rating will stay rock bottom. As your gear improves your rating will probably improve as well.

But I agree that the Blizzard pvp system is completely screwed up.

Lets analyze how it works:

Without rating trading - top rated teams are rewarded with more points, gets gear quicker, starts each season with a huge advantage and new teams face an uphill struggle right from the start.

With rating trading - new teams buy points with gold, devalues the rating system and further fuels the gold buying market.

[Vyndree]

I'm sorry that is cheap as hell. Why fake your way to getting good items rather then just work hard for them?

While I agree with you, the WoW PvP system is so fucked up, its the only way to do it without wasting your entire life away (like the original PvP system). 2.4 is doing a LOT ot help n00bs get the ball rolling, but its still a huge time commitment.

People will choose the path of least resistance almost always. Its just human nature. :P

QFT. The reason why buying arena points "matters" timewise, is because you're not going to be facing appropriately geared people in your given level-range. Half the people you will meet in prime-time arena pvp even in the 1500's are full season 3 players powerleveling up an arena team for sale. You will not be evenly matched, and you will not receive appropriate points (or point decreases) when fighting teams "of your level". Sure, buying arena teams isn't helping the problem, but it's a bigger issue than any single team/player can fix -- which is why Blizz has their eyes on it for 2.4.

I think the biggest issue in this case is that honest players are being penalized when full s3 arena farmers are recreating low-ranked teams when they shouldn't be in that bracket to begin with. That's the biggest problem - that means that honest players are going to have a much lower rating then they deserve, just because they may have "lost" to a 1500-ranked s3 group which set them back many more points than if they had played the group when it was rated 1800's+. So yes, I believe the whole way until you get your full s3 set you're going to be sitting at rock bottom in the rating system due to that fact alone.

2.4 is helping, but it's not here yet. They're changing the way teams are gaining points and taking personal rating into account. There will also be some baseline pvp gear you can get from rep vendors to minimize the HUGE gear gap for new 70's.

However, until it gets here, the PvP arena system ramp-up is completely fubar'ed, and most will find a far more efficient use of their time farming PvE gold to spend helping them become BASELINE competitive with the current PvP system, flawed as it is. If you don't have the gear to support your skill, you can expect a long, frustrating pvp arena experience wading through the low 1000's bracket.

[Boylston]

You know what would really help...

* One team per character per season.

or

* After switching teams, you are not eligible for arena points for next 3 weeks.

The ability to switch in and out of teams if the root cause for a lot of these problems. That and the personal rating farming that is going on.

[Vyndree]

You know what would really help...

* One team per character per season.

or

* After switching teams, you are not eligible for arena points for next 3 weeks.

The ability to switch in and out of teams if the root cause for a lot of these problems. That and the personal rating farming that is going on.

I think that's a little excessive. However, with the 2.4 changes where point earnings are based on each individual's personal rating, I could see making personal ratings stick for a whole season instead of reset when you join a new team -- that would make it difficult for s3 geared folks to restart with a new 1500's team, as they wouldn't be getting great points per game, and the 1500's teams they're up against wouldn't be losing as many points per game.

That way, if you get stuck with a sucky arena group, you don't have to worry about not getting arena points for weeks if you bail for a better group/more synergistic group makeup.

[yarr]

However, with the 2.4 changes where point earnings are based on each individual's personal rating,
Where did you get this vyn? I don't see it in the current 2.4 test patch notes ( http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html), was it in the earlier "leaked" notes?

[thinus]

However, with the 2.4 changes where point earnings are based on each individual's personal rating,
Where did you get this vyn? I don't see it in the current 2.4 test patch notes ( http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html), was it in the earlier "leaked" notes?

I think she means this:


Arenas
Matchmaking: If a queued player has a personal rating higher than their team rating, the matchmaking system will now use the highest personal rating of a queued member of that team for matchmaking purposes, instead of the team rating. In addition, when making a calculation for rating gains and losses at the end of a match, the calculation will use the higher of the personal or team ratings on the opposing team.

[Majo]

1.) Here's my opinion: I compare buying points with the idea of buying BOE epics on the auction house. It's a way to spend your hard earned gold to better your character. Buying BOE epics gets you up to par for PvE content faster, and buying points gets you up to par for PvP content faster.

It's just gear, and all it does it accelerates you to a competitive level. What it doesn't give you is player skill; it doesn't get you top dps on the damage meters, nor does it give you the glory of good arena ratings/titles. That's a whole other achievement -- buying gear merely brings you to the starting line of the *actual* race.

My advice to anyone buying points is: don't short yourself by waiting until you're geared to start doing arenas; play as many games as you can so you can familiarize yourself with arena strats now rather than later. If you want to be good, the best time to start is now, and you're not saving yourself that much time by getting the gear if you don't know how to play yet. Even if you can't break out of the 1500's due to your lackluster gear, I guarantee you'll at least learn something, and learning is half the battle. Actually it's 100% of the battle once you're wearing the same gear as everyone else.

With that said, I really like the rating requirements they've put on the latest season's gear. It actually associates them with achievements and makes them represent something. If I were to have it my way, I would have a rating requirement on ALL of the latest season's gear, but cut the arena point cost of the previous season's gear significantly (maybe 50%) to make it more accessible. You can still be competitive wearing last season's gear (we're talking 5-10% stat differences), but the latest season will represent a tournament ranking reward.

That's my 2c on that.


2.) Let's be inventive here, guys -- after all, we are on a multi-boxing forum, right? So how about you buy two 2k+ teams at the same time, multi-box both of those teams very late at night when not many people are queuing, and hit that queue button at the same time? If you do it late enough at night, you would have VERY good chances of queuing up against yourself. Don't have 10 characters (if you're doing 5v5's) to multi-box with for double queuing? In that case, you could either:
a) Hook up with another multi-boxer. (Hello The Zerg)
b) Help some of your dear friends get some arena points too. They'd love you forever.
c) Sell those extra slots to people.
^ ^ (great idea!)

So here's what you would do. Queue up in the middle of the night.. you might need to do the first set of games around 3am-4am to maximize your chances. Exchange wins with yourself each game. When you do this, the higher team loses more/gains less as the lower teams gains more/loses less. What happens because of that? The 2 team ratings get closer and closer to each other until the point where you're exchanging exactly 15 points each game. The closer your rating gets to each other, the better chance you have of actually queuing up against yourself (matchmaking goes off team rating right now). If you have the exact rating (i.e. both exactly at 2137 rating, exactly) you could start being more relaxed about the times you queue, too. Maybe not too relaxed, but not 3am-4am I'm sure.


The result:
a) Your purchased teams last longer than 3 weeks of losses before you need to buy a new one.
b) Your points earnings stay constant in that time frame (for the most part).
c) You would have bought a 2nd team, or even 3rd team, once your other team expired, so you're not really spending more money.
d) You can make back some, if not all, of your investment selling those extra slots. Heck, it could end up being profitable.


Was that long winded? :pinch: Well, I hope somebody finds that helpful.

-Majo

[BobGnarly]

1.) Here's my opinion: I compare buying points with the idea of buying BOE epics on the auction house. It's a way to spend your hard earned gold to better your character. Buying BOE epics gets you up to par for PvE content faster, and buying points gets you up to par for PvP content faster.

There is a very significant difference. Clearly BoE epics are condoned by Blizzard, since they set the BoE flag on the item and allow them to be placed in AH. Just as clearly, they don't condone this team selling stuff, as we can see by the coming changes in 2.4.

To be perfectly honest, I could extend that line of reasoning to include buying chars/gold on ebay. Both are trading my time for items (whether its in game gold, which takes time to make, or my personal assets which do the same). Probably not an apple/apple comparison, but its pretty close imo.


It's just gear, and all it does it accelerates you to a competitive level. What it doesn't give you is player skill; it doesn't get you top dps on the damage meters, nor does it give you the glory of good arena ratings/titles. That's a whole other achievement -- buying gear merely brings you to the starting line of the *actual* race.

And an ebayed character is just a character, and also doesn't supply player skill, but most people frown heavily on this.

My personal opinion is that it would be nice if this was not possible via some game mechanic (which, hopefully, eventually will be the case). I know it sucks for newly minted 70s, and they are trying to address that in future patches; however, if we going to go with the notion that in-game achievements should have merit, then they should be unadulterated by both external influences (cash & ebay) and gaming the system ala current purchasing teams thing.

Of course, that's what I like, what I'll get is probably much different. :)

[Vyndree]

In addition, when making a calculation for rating gains and losses at the end of a match, the calculation will use the higher of the personal or team ratings on the opposing team.

Correct, that's what I meant by saying that personal ratings are taken into account for the points you get per match. High personal rating = bad point gain if you're fighting a low rated team. ;)

[Majo]

My personal opinion is that it would be nice if this was not possible via some game mechanic (which, hopefully, eventually will be the case). I know it sucks for newly minted 70s, and they are trying to address that in future patches; however, if we going to go with the notion that in-game achievements should have merit, then they should be unadulterated by both external influences (cash & ebay) and gaming the system ala current purchasing teams thing.

Of course, that's what I like, what I'll get is probably much different. :)I can definitely appreciate your outlook. I think another thing to point out is that by buying characters/gear, you're bypassing alot of game content. It's kind of like using "cheat codes" in console games.. sure they're available, but you usually end up *diminishing* your experience with the game when you use them.

I can't imagine WoW would ever offer a Guild Wars style of PvP catering -- in that game you could actually start with a highest level character straight out the gate, just so you can jump right into the PvP aspect of the game. Not sure how I'd feel about it if they did, though.