Anyone using Rogues ?

[Shania]

Im not a big melee fan, but I do like the rogues, does anyone multi box them, or use them in their grps, if not why ?

If so, have you any macroes for them ?

[Ualaa]

There were/are a few videos of Asonimie trying rogues during Cata-Beta.
With equal gear (full pvp gear) they took out a lot of equal/larger groups.
This was in PvP play, mostly battlegrounds and some world play.

For PvE...
You have the initial Sap.
You can fairly easily macro Blind to a Focus target, for in-combat CC.
Not sure the spec you would use for PvE play.
They'll likely do more from backstab if possible; then again Combat Swords/Maces or Mutilate probably doesn't require much facing...
As always, you're best off if melee (any melee) are behind the mob and the mob only faces the tank.

Rogues would suffer the same as other melee.
Namely being in melee/cleave/pbaoe range of the boss.
On fights without a lot of movement, they're extremely good damage.
They have a lot of interrupts, if you need those too... kick, gouge, kidney shot, etc.

If you're running them for PvP.
Recuperate is better healing than rogues have ever had previous.
Unless of course you run with a healer.

I was primarily interested in PvP.
Which is why I went with Ferals instead of Rogues.
The everyone-can-heal and everyone-can-rez things.
Stealth for PvP is quite nice.

I would look at the two-step macros either Mercurio's or Toned's or possibly Aragent's which are all forum stickies.
Decent places to start.

[Aragent]

Im not a big melee fan, but I do like the rogues, does anyone multi box them, or use them in their grps, if not why ?



If so, have you any macroes for them ?



The Hardest part about Multiboxing rogues is unless they are in your Main Window, you will not even come close to Optimal DPS due to Combo Points

That said we can still maintain a decent and steady amount of dps [but you should see a significant diferance in dps if you were soloing]

My Project curently has macros for each of the Rogue specs. [though im curently revauating them for the Update as I write this]

[katsurahama]

I have four rogues. Three in one team and one in a different team for the crit buff. I like them. Also, sap is a very nice cc. I use mutilate spec. I dont even bother stealthing though i probably will after 4.1 gets applied. I dont spam IWT so they dont run aroundlike maniacs. I would for pvp. In pvp i woukd also use a 2step with backstab as step 2. In pve though im too worried about them running off in random directions.

I thinK theyre like hunters - easy mindless dps. It sometimes sucks having four group members in range of boss aoe. They have cloak of skill for emergencies though.

Im not at my computer right now and my rogues are only 70. But with assassination spec you can pretty much guarantee when you have combo points. I use a 1 step castsequence macro and it hasnt locked up on me. I probably waste some combo points but i dont try to use abilities in the sequence without knowing ill have some pts.

Any class at end game is going to do better dps single boxed than it will multiboxed.

[Ualaa]

You could probably approximate combo points, fairly reliably.

Either go when they will have at least four, but usually five combo points.
Or go with a finishing move when they all have five combo points, but some might have had five for a little while.
Not sure which would be the better DPS.

If you're using IS Boxer or something equivalent.
You could use video feeds, to see the current combo points for each rogue.
A clickbar could manage finishing moves for each rogue.
Although I'd probably lean more towards a more automatic timing with less management; even if some DPS was lost, it would likely be preferable compared to the amount of concentration/micromanagement required.

[Shania]

Mutilate is the spec to go I think. Stil working on my 2nd team as I type this, might try some rogues next batch and see, maybe just 2 and 2 something else.

[Kicksome]

I have 4x rogues at 85. I use the DK priority system as my setup - just using rogue skills obviously. I have them all Sub spec. It's REALLY fun to gank people. But they are really weak compared to 4x DKs - at least for me now.

I sometimes wander around with 1 of my shaman, with 4 rogues in stealth following - and see who tries to gank a poor shaman - and own them - it's really funny.

[Ualaa]

Going to a semi-high traffic area...
I'm on a PvE server, so if you're on a PvP server the flagging part is not necessary.

Anyway, flag your one non-stealth toon.
Have them sit down, via "x".
And type /AFK.

Then actively watch with your stealth guys.
See if anyone wants an easy and unfair "free kill".
They cannot complain if you get an easy and unfair free kill.

[blast3r]

Going to a semi-high traffic area...
I'm on a PvE server, so if you're on a PvP server the flagging part is not necessary.

Anyway, flag your one non-stealth toon.
Have them sit down, via "x".
And type /AFK.

Then actively watch with your stealth guys.
See if anyone wants an easy and unfair "free kill".
They cannot complain if you get an easy and unfair free kill.

Done this several times before. hehe...

[Toned]

I have a rogue in my mixed melee team that I'm working on (currently 82/83ish).
Mutilate is definately the spec of choice for multi-boxing.

Button 1


/cast mutilate
/cast coldblood
/use 13
/use 14
/cast Vanish
button2


/castsequence reset=combat mutilate, slice and dice, mutilate, envenom, mutilate, mutilate, rupture, mutilate, mutilate, envenom, mutilate, mutilate, envenom, mutilate, mutilate, rupture, mutilate, mutilate, envenom

[schilm]

I have a rogue in my 85 boxing team and the 2 step macros Toned posted are the ones I am using and work very well for me.

One thing I do in addition to that is put vanish on one of my other keybinds that I spam.

Vanish is a dps boost for rogues now due to the Overkill (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=58426) buff.

So vanishing on occasion and continuing to spam the 2 step macro provides a bit of dps boost.

The other thing I do is stealth and ToT the tank leading up to each fight to make sure I get the overkill buff and the ToT buff at the start of the fight.


For a rogue melee team one thing you may consider doing is to use the ISBoxer video feeds to record the combo points bars of your rogues, and display them on your tanks screen. That way you could strategically hit slice and dice and rupture rather than relying on the macro to hit them. I've been meaning to set this up for my 85 rogue but haven't gotten to it yet... but especially if all your dps are rogues it should be pretty manageable.

[Toned]

I have a rogue in my 85 boxing team and the 2 step macros Toned posted are the ones I am using and work very well for me.

One thing I do in addition to that is put vanish on one of my other keybinds that I spam.

Vanish is a dps boost for rogues now due to the Overkill (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=58426) buff.

So vanishing on occasion and continuing to spam the 2 step macro provides a bit of dps boost.

The other thing I do is stealth and ToT the tank leading up to each fight to make sure I get the overkill buff and the ToT buff at the start of the fight.


For a rogue melee team one thing you may consider doing is to use the ISBoxer video feeds to record the combo points bars of your rogues, and display them on your tanks screen. That way you could strategically hit slice and dice and rupture rather than relying on the macro to hit them. I've been meaning to set this up for my 85 rogue but haven't gotten to it yet... but especially if all your dps are rogues it should be pretty manageable.

I have /cast vanish in my main spam button as well. Exactly for the OverKill buff. I just typed the macros in my post and forgot to put that in :)

[katsurahama]

I will be running a 4 rogue, 1 druid team soon. I have the three of the rogues at 70, one at 69 so far, and the druid currently at 65. Once theyre all 70 i will do a mix of pvp and questing to level them from that point. Im really looking foward to it.

I will definitely have to get 2-step working for that team though! :(

[Ualaa]

Will the druid be running as Resto or Feral?

Feral would get you heals on crits.
The option to rez, or heal in down time.
Would have comparable stealth and the most speed possible while stealthed.

Resto, would be heals in pvp, which would be huge.
But the toon would definitely be focused to be killed.

[katsurahama]

I havent decided how to run the druid. If its resto, it will be slow and easier to detect in stealh so i will have to be choosier about my path of travel. But as resto i will be more likely to survive battles not started on my terms. Also, i will have a better field of view when controlling from a stealthed resto while the rogues kill stuff, only coming out of steal myself when absolutely necessary.

If the druid is feral, it will be quicker in stealth and less detectable so i will be able to move from point to point more quickly. I will be better able to start battles on my terms. Fights not on my terms will be less survivable than if the druid was resto. Being feral would increase the overall damage output of the group since the fifth member wpuld not be spending the majority of time in stealth, coming out only for emergencies. I would need to have the rogues use recuperation if the druid is feral. It will be almost like having no healer - if i need a feral druid to heal im probably screwed anyway. Id rather the group die than split them all up (the rogues could CoS, vanish, sprint away but the druid would be sacrificed).

There are advantages to both. I may end up runnign as feral and using any honor gained to buy resto stuff. Why have the druid (i have no rogue on th at acct) at all if it will never heal?

On a side note, i wonder if its possible to have enough speed enchants for a feral druid to match the stealth speed of a 4.1 assn rogue?

The prospective druid is now 67.

[katsurahama]

Druid is 68 now. Leveling SUCKS with no rest bonus and no heirlooms. Leaving on an extended trip soon so I'm pushing to hit 70 before that. I want to start trying some BGs (even though i'm likely to get murdered at 70).

Not only pvp, I'm also looking forward to just trying this composition out while questing. I cannot wait to stumble across the opposing faction (even though thats extremely rare now) while leveling.

UALAA: What is your strategy in AV with your all druid team?

[Ualaa]

General strategy is the same for most teams.
I play alliance, so...

My start of game macro, essentially says:
- Take and hold Iceblood Graveyard so we rez on offense.
- Give the horde Stonehearth Graveyard so they rez on offense.
- Kill Galv if he's open, or come back for him in 5 mins if he's camped.
- At least five in towers until they burn.
- Backcap Iceblood/Stonehearth Bunkers is good too.
- Rush RH with one group, capping it before FWGY.
- Talk to Wing Commanders, that is bonus honor if they make it home.




Depending on the group you're with...
If people seem onboard with that, I'd generally go to Iceblood Graveyard and hold that.
Once it caps, almost any alliance who dies will rez on offense which helps immensely.

Or the ground outside of Iceblood Tower's entrance if the horde had a lot in with Galv.
That way, 4x Army of the Dead... could help defend IBT when they come out.

If anyone suggests defending Belinda, I almost always go with that.
Even though that is likely to wipe the horde, split their offense and turn the game into a longer attrition match.
In those games, I rotate from Stonehearth Graveyard, Belinda and Icewing Bunker, trying to hold all three and kill every horde that is moving north.

If it doesn't look like we have many at Dun Baldar, I will often hearth home via the AV Trinket.
And recap the bunkers or the final two graveyards.

With the Druids, I was less likely to run into the middle of a large group.
But more likely to stealth around a group... and then attack the stragglers hard.
And then run away from anything that hit hard, or if focused... with powershifting to break snares.
Would use the new 83 Roar spell, for root break/immunity too.
And once I have distance, heal up via HOTs and stealth to repeat.

The Druids would frequently stealth past a horde turtle blockade around IBT, IBGY, TP.
And then cap Reserve Hut, East/West Towers then move towards FW graveyard.
And harass a lot there, possibly take that graveyard too.
Even if nothing got to cap (something often did), it would frequently draw enough away from the middle that something in the middle would cap or our offense could move up some.




As an AV boxer...

With casters/deathgrip, the Bunkers are easier to take or retake.
Because you can stand on the last set of stairs that lead up to the ring around the outside.
And cast or DG things to you.

With melee the towers are easier to take/retake.
Getting up is the same deal, auto follow works fine.
Once you're up in the top, it is a small area where any kind of a cleave move is great.
Just need to beware of fear.
Druids had Trinkets + Beserk.... just Trinkets now; DK's have Lichborne + Trinkets.

Taking Towers/Bunkers and holding them wins games.
Retaking Towers/Bunkers, so they don't burn wins games.
Holding a forward graveyard can win games.
Taking an objective away from their main army can split that army making it easier for the rest of the group.

The mines are mathematically a waste of time to take, even as a solo toon.
So should probably be avoided as a boxer.

If there's any kind of battle going on, whether in the Field of Strife or around Iceblood Graveyard...
It is essentially not doing either side any good.
But as boxers, we can shine in those environments, especially if we distract a lot of opposition while our objectives move closer to finishing.