Anyone tried/had success resetting an item's value?

[Ualaa]

The volatiles and pyrium that transmute into Truegold have remained at a constant price for the last 6-8 weeks.
But Truegold has dropped in value over that time, from 600g per bar to low 400's per bar.

At any given time, there are 40-50 bars listed on the auction house.
Buying them all, would cost 16-20k which isn't really all that much compared to what I have.

That said, I transmute 35-40 bars (depending on procs) every 3rd day.
And don't really have a use for Truegold aside from selling it.
Certainly don't have a use for an extra 50 bars.

But would rather sell them for 600g each, rather than 400g each, given the mats for the final product are constant.

Or would I be better off to ignore Truegold entirely.
And just go Life > Air, two commodities that have stable values?

[Oatboat]

you just have to err on the side of caution... someone might be holding out for when the first batch sells and plopping another batch at 400g.

You throw 30 up there at 600 and get another 5 under you at 400... its a never ending battle.

[Ualaa]

There are five or six of us, who have a lot of Truegold... or at least produce/acquire it consistently.
Some will match the lowest price, others undercut by a copper or so.

Then there are the idiots who post 1-2 bars for 20g less.
And that has... escalated.

Would probably have to watch it closely, rather than play the game.
Put up 5 or so, at once.
And re-list at the new lowest price if undercut by a small amount.
Or re-buyout anything listed substantially lower.

Not sure its worth it, but thanks for the input.

Life > Air, is almost as profitable as Truegold is now.
And those prices haven't fluctuated at all.

[Kekkerer]

Lives to airs are a lot less hassle to put up with as well since you don't have to deal with the above situation. Airs are needed in far larger amounts than truegold.

[daanji]

Another option is to contact the other regular sells and enter into a price fixing scheme.


Only works if the six or seven of you trust each other and are willingly to work together to control the market.

You could also do some math to determine how many listings it would take at what price to move the mean price as calculated by auction house tools. That way when people get the suggested list price with auctionator or auctioneer, it is a higher price.


I once tried to take over the volatile air market. It worked for a couple days, but ended up breaking even.

To hard to dominate the supply. Truegold though....might be easier but more risk.

[zenga]

Then there are the idiots who post 1-2 bars for 20g less.
And that has... escalated.


Refer to them as idiots as in being 'dumb' is something I wouldn't do. Plenty of theories out there that prove that deep undercutting works.

For example yesterday I snatched 37 inferno ruby at alliance side for 40g each. I play horde and alliance on my realm is about 3 or 4 to 1 horde. Int Inferno ruby sells for 115g on horde, about 100g on alliance. Usually I sell about 2 of every red cut a day, it's not something I'm very active at. The 10 inferno's I get everyday come from flipping obsidium ore into enchanting mats, which is my goal of prospecting ore rahter than the gems. So rather than trying to sell the 37 inferno's at max price I listed all 37 cuts at 85 gold each at once, on a toon that never sells jc stuff. They were sold withing the hour at prime time, to a guy who most likely bought them to resell. I don't care about the 30*37 gold I've missed out on just because it was an extra snatch. Having to sell them over time means more work involved and price decrease risk. Not to mention that there is a possibility that I snatch more over the next day, which would cause me being stuck with a huge stock. Hence why I go for the quick profit.

As for price resets: I only do that for markets with little supply, 'never ending markets' or where the time is in my advantage.

Example 1: glyphs: glyphs are easy to make, a large part is pretty cheap to craft and very beneficial. I get my ethereal inks from alliance side, which makes my crafting cost 21g per glyph, those who buy horde herbs have a crafting cost of 80-90g. My sell price for these glyphs is 145g. Whenever someone enters the market and undercuts me I sell them for 75g. Everyone who tries to buy me out is just a fool. I keep mass supplying them for lower and lower, eventually pushing them out. Whenever he decides to get out of ethereal glyph market and dumps them on the AH, I buy him out and start back to list at 145. The main glyph guys stay away cause they know it's a lost battle. This is not true for inks that are available at a way more reasonable price, I just undercut for 1c.

Example 2: belt buckles are not listed en masse on horde side. There is not a constant supply from the same people. Yesterday they were up to 375 gold. And everyone needs belt buckles. Sometimes, typically near end of the week before reset they can go down as low as 220 gold. If there are only 3-5 buckles up at that price, I just buy them out and relist at 375. They sell anyways. The other guys who sell buckles basically do the same with me to reset the price. Eventually we all gain with it by forcing a price reset.

Example 3: saronite ore. Prior to cata I stocked 9 gbank tabs full with saronite ore. A pretty safe long term investment since if the price wouldn't go up as I expected, I could vendor them and run breakeven. Have about 4 gbank tabs left now and price is 8g a bar (I only bought ore below 0.70g means I make a 6.6g gain per bar). There is very little supply. And people who level professions need tons of them. Usually I list about 100 bars once a day. But if none is leveling professions, other people list a few bars a day for less gold, the next day same, etc. I've seen price going down to 4.5g where there was only like 50 bars listed. The it's very safe for me to buy them all out and relist. I'll make a profit anyways, even in the long run.

Edit: 2 other dangers of resetting the price is a/ people automatically list at market price rather than 1c undercut or b/ people not looking at prices (like me for many stuff) and just let the addon put it up on AH en masse at a predefined price. Thus screwing you over or forcing another buy out.

[Ualaa]

Lets say you're listing eight of every glyph, and consistently sell that many every day without fail at 150g each.
Sometimes someone undercuts you, and you undercut back or match them.
Irregardless you average 8 sales of every glyph close to 150g each.

Then over the course of a couple of weeks...
Three or four players compete with each other over price.
Each is listing 10 of the glyphs.
And then cancels auction and relists.
They undercut each other (you initially) by 20g a sale.

By the end of two weeks...
There are 50-60 of every glyph on the AH... sold by 10 or 15 different sellers.
And now the going price is 40g.
When if they had all undercut you by 1 copper at a time, the going price might be 144g.

Everyone is making 100g per sale less than they could.
And you're not sure you want to spend 25k buying lots of your formerly most profitable glyph.

The analogy is not perfect, as you probably list 400 types of glyphs.
Rather than one or two products.
Let's say for argument, each glyph sold for 150g and now each glyph is 50g or so.

Would you call the people who drove the market down to 33% of its value in 2 weeks, and have it flooded/killed idiots?
I would.




I think I'll just do the Volatile Air.
That's a safe 40k a week profit.

Truegold was 75k but is barely 50k a week profit now.
And falling still.

[zenga]

At a certain point someone is going to make a loss by matching the deep undercutting. A lot depends on the demand. Of course a deep undercutter can be an idiot who has no clue of the market, but I just wanted to point out that deep undercutting can be a very viable startegy, to either get rid of competition or to sell in volume.

As in my glyph example, I get mails everytime to up my price from the competition as there is more money to be made for everyone. Thing is there is a limited demand. So every type of competition is bad as for my business. For other glyph types I've (unasked) whitelisted a mass seller so I match his price.

About truegold, I stay far away from that market, unless I have some orbs less where I need truegold for. There is an oversupply on my realm ever since new year. Volatiles are way more liquid and less of an investment.

[Atrocious]

It's hard to do this. There are often just too many people supplying. It works to a certain extent with glyphs, with volatiles I had some luck. I did make some money over a certain period, but in the end I just gave up. Now I'm just buying out volatiles that are listed so cheap that they are almost at the volatile life prices as I generally view my time to do the transmute would be equal to the extra gold I pay for the other volatile.

On my server the Darkmoon Cards of Destruction are so low in price that I don't even understand why anyone is doing them. The Earthquake decks are going for 3-4k. The cost of making them are close to 800g per card. So I don't even understand why people bother making the decks. I'm thinking that the problem is that I'm on a medium population RP server. I got out of that market with a huge "loss"(just decided to keep the one deck I made for my self, and sold off the remaining singles for a bit of a profit.)

On my server glyphs are the big money makers, and here I do try to control the market of all glyphs with a 75g+ profit, and it has worked. So far....... The next big profit are the enchants(both regular and the leather/cloth ones), but the sales are fewer. Bags are sometimes profitable, but often people are selling at a loss. I do make some money with disenchanting.

I am baffled that someone would sell a epic cloth piece for 200-300g profit when you can only make about 1 a week, and they do not exactly move like hotcakes.

[Ualaa]

I can see, selling at a low price.
To make the market not viable for others.
And then you have the market cornered again, and can do with it what you want.

Just kind of frustrated with the constantly undercutting by several parties.
Seeing a commodity that was selling 30+ bars a day at 600+ gold each.
Drop a couple of hundred gold per bar, within a relatively short time frame.

But that's the way it goes.



My server is high population, top 10 on the US realms.
More players than any of the big boxing realms, EU or US.
And 90% of the player base is alliance.

Glyphs are a loss to make, across the board.
Like just about everything else, raw materials exceeds the value of any finished product.
Not even sure why someone would craft, aside from using their mats and charge a combine fee or to level up their skill.

I tried glyphs, but you're lucky to get more than 6g for any glyph.
And people only need them once.

I did make quite a bit selling alliance vendor (unlimited quantity) pets on the horde side.
Made about 20k doing that, in a month.
But the horde unlimited pets actually sell for basically at cost, no profit on the alliance side doing the same.

The gold accumulation is just another game.
There's almost nothing I can buy on the AH that is an upgrade.
But you never know when something will come along that is.

[zenga]

Feel your pain. Compared to such a busy realm, mine is heaven (medium populated, no anal trade spam on horde, a very tight community on hode, top guilds all get along well enough 25m hc guilds though only top 50 guild in world has disbanded recently, so overall progress is mediocre). Plenty of opportunities to do what I want. Get competition? There is always a niche available to compensate.

Been looking a few times to join a top pvp server, but really I'd give up a lot. No way I'd enjoy such an environment after experiencing my current realm.

[katsurahama]

I don't think what you're proposing will work without paying the $3 a month for the remote AH or having a laptop/ipad next to you all the time constantly checking the AH. It would be so time consuming.

Besides that Ualaa, aren't you already wealthy beyond the ability to ever spend it?

Why not get your healer team up for pvp? :)

[Ualaa]

The gold accumulation is just another game within the game.
Just because there's nothing I can buy that I want; could buy some PvE upgrades, and do a Heroic team I suppose, but have no interest in the PvE aspect at the moment...
Doesn't mean I don't want to see how far the gold game can be pushed; and next expansion there might be another 200k (across a team) sink like Vial of the Sands.



Looking at the numbers...
Transmute Life (at 8g per, on average).

30 Life (240g) = 10 Fire, 10 Water, 10 Air
Plus 3 Pyrium = (20g each) = 60g
Total cost in mats per Truegold 300g.

30 Life (240g) = 30 Air
Total cost in mats = 240g per 30 Air.

Truegold was selling for 800g per bar a couple months back.
Last month it was in the 700-750g range.
Today, it is barely over 400g per bar.
So Truegold is 100g profit per bar.
Transmute procs are nice, but that's an average of +15%

30 Volatile Air sell for 16g each, when sold as singles.
Which is 480g per 30, or 240g profit per 30.
Quite a bit more than Truegold.
Stacks of 10's, at 219g 99s 99c, sell very well... which is another 180g profit.
Plus the same long-term 15% additional Volatiles of random types.

Back to Air.
Thanks for the input; don't think its worth trying to reset the price on Truegold.

[Shodokan]

I can see, selling at a low price.
To make the market not viable for others.
And then you have the market cornered again, and can do with it what you want.

Just kind of frustrated with the constantly undercutting by several parties.
Seeing a commodity that was selling 30+ bars a day at 600+ gold each.
Drop a couple of hundred gold per bar, within a relatively short time frame.

But that's the way it goes.



My server is high population, top 10 on the US realms.
More players than any of the big boxing realms, EU or US.
And 90% of the player base is alliance.

Glyphs are a loss to make, across the board.
Like just about everything else, raw materials exceeds the value of any finished product.
Not even sure why someone would craft, aside from using their mats and charge a combine fee or to level up their skill.

I tried glyphs, but you're lucky to get more than 6g for any glyph.
And people only need them once.

I did make quite a bit selling alliance vendor (unlimited quantity) pets on the horde side.
Made about 20k doing that, in a month.
But the horde unlimited pets actually sell for basically at cost, no profit on the alliance side doing the same.

The gold accumulation is just another game.
There's almost nothing I can buy on the AH that is an upgrade.
But you never know when something will come along that is.

So you are on tich?

Anyway I myself am at the point where i can throw any amount of gold at anything I want. So i just buy stuff out and re-sell it no matter the cost.

Glyphs are server dependent... i get near 200g per glyph where i play now.

The best way i'm making gold is flipping gems... but that won't work next patch since cut gems go down to .75g per and the uncut sit at 5 per.

High pop servers are much harder to influence the markets but when I played Illidan I was able to do it quite a few times... you just need the capital and the free time to sit and camp the ah for a few days. It is REALLY hard to justify selling truegold for 600g when even on low pop servers the mats are only like 250.

[Noids]

The gold accumulation is just another game within the game.
Just because there's nothing I can buy that I want; could buy some PvE upgrades, and do a Heroic team I suppose, but have no interest in the PvE aspect at the moment...
Doesn't mean I don't want to see how far the gold game can be pushed; and next expansion there might be another 200k (across a team) sink like Vial of the Sands.



Looking at the numbers...
Transmute Life (at 8g per, on average).

30 Life (240g) = 10 Fire, 10 Water, 10 Air
Plus 3 Pyrium = (20g each) = 60g
Total cost in mats per Truegold 300g.

30 Life (240g) = 30 Air
Total cost in mats = 240g per 30 Air.

Truegold was selling for 800g per bar a couple months back.
Last month it was in the 700-750g range.
Today, it is barely over 400g per bar.
So Truegold is 100g profit per bar.
Transmute procs are nice, but that's an average of +15%

30 Volatile Air sell for 16g each, when sold as singles.
Which is 480g per 30, or 240g profit per 30.
Quite a bit more than Truegold.
Stacks of 10's, at 219g 99s 99c, sell very well... which is another 180g profit.
Plus the same long-term 15% additional Volatiles of random types.

Back to Air.
Thanks for the input; don't think its worth trying to reset the price on Truegold.

Definitely back to air mate. In your calculations above you are forgetting the other cost of production which is a 24 hour cooldown transmute...

To make the truegold (30 lifes) you are using 2 mutes for the mats then 1 for the actual truegold. For the air you are only using 2 mutes. Therefore to have comparable profit over your limited (somewhat :P) stock of transmutes you need to get 50% more profit from your truegold...

On my realm people give away there true gold transmutes for the cost of mats only, hoping they get a proc. I can make a 10g profit per volatile going from life>air plus the proc on top of that, so this is preferable for my realm and sounds like it probably would be on yours too.

[zenga]

The gold accumulation is just another game within the game.
Just because there's nothing I can buy that I want; could buy some PvE upgrades, and do a Heroic team I suppose, but have no interest in the PvE aspect at the moment...
...
Back to Air.
Thanks for the input; don't think its worth trying to reset the price on Truegold.

1 thing to take into account is that when 4.1 hits (shouldn't be to far away, actual expected it to be live by now) 352 epics will become easy obtainable for the masses. For quite a few of the *feel free to insert* players, the only thing that matters is that the gear is purple. Thus in theory the price on 359 crafted pieces will be even lower, or the demand for truegold will decrease. Having a large stockpile of these (or risking to have one by resetting the price) is not something I'd fancy. Whereas volatiles are always going to be in need. Hec, I used over 2k volatiles just tonight to craft a bunch of stuff.

And yeah the gold game is an aspect of the game. I used to do it to be able to buy stuff when I started playing, once I was 'safe' I started pushing for high numbers. And I enjoy it as much as I do enjoy raiding or pvp'ing. And multiboxing is an incredible asset in the economy game. It was actually my main motivation to keep my accounts around and level them up after cataclysm as I mainly focus on solo playing now. Not to mention that broadcasting software makes many of the crafting process trivial. For example milling / prospecting can be nearly automated. While playing solo on a main, every keystroke gets translated into the same key and is send to the alt which triggers a milling/prospecting macro.

[MiRai]

My server is high population, top 10 on the US realms.
More players than any of the big boxing realms, EU or US.
And 90% of the player base is alliance.

Wait... aren't you on Cenarius?

[Ualaa]

Yes.

Cannot find the census site I was looking at earlier.
It showed Cenarius-US as the 10th most populated realm.

Googling, Warcraft Realms and Warcraft Census are showing it as medium population, not high population.

Oh well..
Definitely on Cenarius.
And there are way more alliance than horde; horde AH auctioneer scan is 2 minutes, alliance AH auctioneer scan is 35 minutes.

[Shodokan]

Guilds Ranked: 207 Characters: 4,938 (active 85s)
Horde / Alliance: 0.32 / 1 Highest ranked guild is 603 world rank

I'd def say this is NOT in the top 10 in the world.

Also new recipes come out next patch (4.2) which truegold will be needed for which will make the price go up again.

[zenga]

Here (http://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us) you can check the realm rankings based on guild progression in the latest tier. Show your realm is 71th in US. In terms of progression it's a very average one, just the balance seems to be totally off.

[Ualaa]

Afterlife (www.afterlifeguild.org), from Everquest chose Cenarius.
There were the #1 progression guild across all EQ servers for the longest time.
And then eventually Fires of Heaven, Titon and another guild basically caught up to them and were always neck and neck for world-wide firsts.

Blizzard basically did what they could to steal the top guilds, or appeal to them to move whatever you want to call it.
Just about everyone from Mithaniel Marr who moves to Warcraft chose Cenarius because that was the guild Afterlife chose, so their friends would most likely migrate here.... and at release there were a few hundred familiar names.

Afterlife and Arathian Knights emerged as top guilds for PvE progression on the Alliance side.
But over time, both have faded away.
The top raiders from Afterlife are now in Rift, having become rather bored with the ease of Warcraft raiding compared to Everquest.
I remember my buddy, complaining that a ton of Afterlife people hated that there were addons in raids; they didn't mind rearranging the unit frames or action bars, but thought things like Deadly Boss Mods or Decursive were incredibly stupid and should not be allowed.
Anyway, Afterlife isn't really a progression guild anymore... they're not even the furthest progressed of the guilds with that name anymore.

Towards the end of WotLK there were 10-15 GDKP's a day, every day of the week for whatever the current furthest raid content was.
I haven't seen too many GDKP's yet, but there are tons of PUG raids every day.

[valkry]

I always undercut by 10-20g, always. Not cos I like messing with people, I just want fast sells cos I cbf waiting for good value sells or relisting. I'm quite happy for me to undercut and some AH player to buy all of me out so they can re-list and profit.

And when they do manage to reset the price, means my undercut still sells fast for an even better price :P