The Proposal

[Morganti]

The Proposal -

He entered the darkened room as one of many, head and body covered in heavy robes and silent as the vast space that loomed outside the reinforced windows surrounding them. Moving slowly but steadily to the front of the room, the man had gained the attention of the rest of the men and women in the room whose conversations had all but disappeared.

Turning to face the small crowd, he threw back the cowl from his head and faced them with his white on white eyes. A small light blinked on above him, and the crowd shifted almost imperceptibly as they got a better view of those hollow eyes that had been witness to so many mysteries years ago. Dominic Morganti, former lost soul of the dark voyage, now an overlord who was known to strip entire planets bare of their resources, wiping out millions of the inhabitants in the process. The crowd wondered as one exactly what the hell was going on.

"Friends", he began, spreading his arms wide. "I welcome you to my humble home. I appreciate your showing up in person in these dangerous times, and hope that this will be a most productive meeting for all involved. You'll notice that each group here has had their identities hidden from the other, and you can rest easy knowing that I alone know the corporation names and un-incorporated individuals gathered around you."

"But yet, I need you to understand this: you were not chosen at random." he continued. "Some of you may know the incidents surrounding the origins of the Endless Corporation years ago, and some may not. While a story for another day, those of us on that lost voyage long ago were marked. And those few of us who were chosen were spoken to across the distances of time and space." As he spoke, Morganti's voice became distant, like the retelling of a dream, and his eyes cut to the reinforced windows and out into the void. He stood staring at the blackness for some seconds, transfixed. Finally a cough from the crowd brought him back.

"Until recently, those voices from the past had gone silent for years...nearly a decade now even. But they remain silent no more. You may wonder where I got the names, random and seemingly without purpose or connection, for the group that sits here today. Wonder no more. Ladies and gentleman, my proposal is this: I have been directed into the darkness, and I wish you to join me. I search for a wormhole system that holds a certain Sleeper ship, the "Macross". We all know the power of the Sleepers, but this ship is special. It contains something....something that even I am not privy to. It is well known that there is wealth to be had in these wormhole systems, but this is something bigger. Fortune and glory is what I offer you. There is much wealth to be had in the process of searching for the "Macross", and that is what I offer everyone here a share of. Fly with me into the darkness. Let us discover the secrets of the void as one."

With that, the light above Dominic Morganti snapped off. "If you choose to join me on this adventure please remain in the room. Any that find the thought of the danger inside wormhole space too much to bear, please feel free to make your exit now with no hard feelings from me."

In the back of the room the door snapped open revealing harsh white light from the hallway. It was time for people to make a choice...

[Souca]

Sounds good. I'll see if I can't get a carrier BPO or BPC ready for the trip.

- Souca -

[RobinGBrown]

I'm in. Not sure which of my pilots is brave enough to volunteer, but there's a decent range of ships/skills combinations including Hulks, Orca, Freighter/Jump Freighter, and Battleships. Let me know what you need.

[Morganti]

Slow response day. Methinks folks are scared of wormhole space!

[Meeo]

i once lived in wormhole space for over a year, it was a blast, it was a mess, and it was amazing. At this time i actually have a Wormhole Deployment container with my POS+Mods initially targeted for a Class 3 Wormhole, once i found one.

With the changes a month or 2 ago to the way the sleepers work, they harder they got. When they "fixed" the sleepers neut'ing ability, the price for Tech 3 Cruisers went up dramatically, due to less people wanting to face a much harder sleeper then they were before.

I wouldn't mind going back into a wormhole for a bit, im ion a semi hiatus right now, all my guys are in Low-sec chilling while i play Rift, but i restarted my training on my toons a few weeks ago, in anticipation of getting back into the game.

[Morganti]

I did wormholes pre neut boost to the sleepers, but from everything I've seen passive Drakes are still soloing c1-c3's with a warp out or two. Shouldn't be anything a single boxer would sweat that much. Word on the street is if you are cap stable at 60% you're generally ok.

We do need to decide if we're going to look for a home system in a c3 or c4 (or even c5 if you guys really wanna get ballsy and bring in some big guns). A home system requires a large death star POS, and preferably fit for killing cruiser sized ships (the WH pirates tend to expect POS's to be hardened for BS sized ships and run in T2 cruisers). A carrier would be nice if for nothing else than defense, but I don't expect anyone to put a carrier in a c3.

The other option is of course being more mobile. We can strike out of hisec and clean house on c1-c3 wormholes and once we clear one bounce back out to hisec to look for another and sell.

Thoughts? Advice from those with WH experience? I'm open to suggestions for pretty much any angle here.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I'd definitely love to tag along, though I'm a complete noob, never seen a L4 mission before, I'm poor and I have crap for skill points (just finished T2 shields and T2 drones about a week and a half ago). In addition, I have completely unreliable play times with work going crazy lately. If we get enough interest and things stabilize a bit, I can probably adjust to be around when things are happening. I'm usually 9pm-1am CST (GMT-6) if work issues are behaving.

[Grondir]

I'd love to tag along too, but I don't think I have the skills yet (4 poorly equipped/skilled Drakes and an even worse Dominix). In a few months i'd definately be up for it :D.

Just waiting to see how my PI experiment works out and wether or not I should stop training all my accounts as miners and shift some of them to PvE/PvP pilots.....

[Morganti]

A passively tanked drake (t2 especially) is a good ship to take into a hole. It's not overly expensive if you lose it in pvp, sturdy enough to deal with the super-rat sleepers, and has lots of hi slots so you can get a probe launcher on it. The downside is dps, but hey, if you bring an army of them dps goes up right? If you want to mine, go with a retriever as a cheap but nice miner for holes.

I'd like everyone interested (even if you think you're underskilled) to post their playtimes and time zones. I know one downfall of a lot of corps I've been in is people who want to do something, but are never on at the same times.

[Meeo]

With what i hear Morganti, its probably best to find a Class 3 with people not being full T2 skilled even in drakes.

Class 4 and 5 you run the risk of getting dropped in on by other peoples carriers/BS Fleets trying to gank your steal your stuff, without a decent team to constantly watch the pocket a class the leaves you with room to sleep with a bit more sound of mind. LOL.

I may be able to come with a toon or 2, i usually play GMT-6 as well, but im on usually between the hours of 5 pm CST to 1 or 2 am, when im on.

[Grondir]

GMT here, but my play time can be quite erratic due to work. Sometimes i'm on all day, or for a few hours and others I can't get on at all. But if we can organise something and put some times down, I could let you know if I could be online or not.

Got 15 days for mining barge 5 and then up to Exhumers 3, after that it'll be time to train up the Drakes.

If we could sort something out I would love a long term 'goal' plan to head towards. I just seem to float about at the moment, training whatever I feel like at the time. A bit of constructive direction would be appreciated :D

[Morganti]

Here's a quick skill list for Wormhole living:

Scanning (Astrometrics, Astrometric Rangefinding, Astrometric Acquisition, Astrometric Pinpointing).
Cloaking (and, in particular, Covert Ops).
Combat (PVE or PVP).
Salvaging (Level 4 or Level 3+rigs required for some sleeper wrecks).
Mining/Gas Cloud Harvesting.
Hauling (Faction Industrial level 4 recommended).

[Souca]

Here's a quick skill list for Wormhole living:

Scanning (Astrometrics, Astrometric Rangefinding, Astrometric Acquisition, Astrometric Pinpointing).
Cloaking (and, in particular, Covert Ops).
Combat (PVE or PVP).
Salvaging (Level 4 or Level 3+rigs required for some sleeper wrecks).
Mining/Gas Cloud Harvesting.
Hauling (Faction Industrial level 4 recommended).

Are you asking for all characters to have this, or are these roles you are expecting to be filled? I ask because none of my combats have hauling, nor does my covert ops, and honestly I prefer not to train those skills on them. If this list isn't broken up into roles, then maybe that would be a better way to go. Example, we need a POS Minder who has hauler skills and the skills to anchor a deathstar. We would also need people to be probers, even if they are also capable of taking care of the POS. Make sense?

As for my play time, I can adjust it to whenever people are online.

- Souca -

[Morganti]

I don't think every toon needs the ability to fly an indy as long as you have access to at least one who does. Definitely not the covert ops guy (my cov ops is also my salvager and he was never in any ship buy cov ops and destroyers back then). It IS nice for every toon to have the basic ability to probe, if only for getting caught in a different WH and trying to find your way back (say you take 4 into the next WH over to rat and your prober gets popped, situations like that). I'll come up with a comprehensive list of the roles we must have and the general roles people would get the most out of bringing this afternoon and post it up.

[Morganti]

Ok, so typical roles for Wormhole living are:

POS/Logistics - getting the POS in, setting up, and fueling. Moving loot out and fuel back in/around. PI setup/logistics.
PvE - passive drakes are easy to get into, and work well versus the sleepers. Better if you want.
Miner - retrievers preferably using strip miners. If you dont mind potentially losing them bring hulks.
Gas miner - as above, but for gas (different skills/ships).
Scanner - usually covert ops with cloak and probes. Also a role assigned to someone at all times (especially during fleets)
Salvager - sleeper wrecks require level 4 salvaging+. destroyers > noctis in WH's because of price.
PI - Falls under logistics, but requires its own skills. Make POS fuel, T3 components, etc.
PVP - Move, communicate, and shoot. Listen to the FC. Pick your ship, but the drake/blackbird/tackler or stealth bomber squad .can work well. If you think you cant do pvp then make a tackler and you'll be able to contribute no matter what.
Manufacturing - guess what this does.

Never been to Wormhole space? Read this:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Wormholes_101

[Meeo]

1 thing that i have learned from being in a wormhole, is that every member is the standard roles. ie: Scount/Guard/Logistics(resupply/Farming etc. Lots of time people are solo in a wormhole, and will usually get killed.

Understanding proper Wormhole control and maintenance is a big thing. understanding the basics in what a pirate/recon scout coming into your hole is going to do, is also a good thing to learn. i was fortunately to have great teachers when i was with AHARM (Aperture Harmonics), which was the first large scale WH corp, and they still dominate the WH Field.

Once you have the concepts down living in a wormhole is fun but repetitive.

- Just keep in mind the size of each exit hole.
- never load an exit hole grid if you know its a hole, but has not been opened up.
- always use: http://www.staticmapper.com/ and dotlan to plot courses and check recon
- also learn how to tell how the hole was opened (ie: was it opened from the inside or outside)
- also keep track of the approximate time on a exit/entrance hole til it closes.
- also keep track of the approximate weight limit that is left on the exit/entrance hole. (this is also part of wh maintenance)
- close all holes that are not good for your WH, but dont get yourself locked out. (this is the main part of wh maintenance)
- always keep a prober alt in the hole at all times... You would be surprised how many people make this mistake... It happens often and its a long processes trying to get your stuff out or back in as CCP will not help.

List could go on but those are some basics.

[Morganti]

Wow, Meeo, what have you not done? :) AHARM is a legend in wormhole corps.

Great advice all around. Souca asked this question earlier if every toon needed to be able to do every role and I would say yes, but being multiboxers (most of the 4+ variety) gives us the advantage of being able to spread out the roles a little more between our toons (like hauling and cov ops for instance). I think once people get in and try it they'll get the gist of what needs to be done with their toons.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

So, work issues aren't behaving. I'll keep an eye on things here and holler if that changes.

[Meeo]

Wow, Meeo, what have you not done? :) AHARM is a legend in wormhole corps.

Great advice all around. Souca asked this question earlier if every toon needed to be able to do every role and I would say yes, but being multiboxers (most of the 4+ variety) gives us the advantage of being able to spread out the roles a little more between our toons (like hauling and cov ops for instance). I think once people get in and try it they'll get the gist of what needs to be done with their toons.


I've been around the block, i've been in the game since it started with 1 toon, but didnt really get into it til these past 2 years, when i got my other toons.

[Morganti]

I'm out searching for an empty c3 tonight. Btw, I'm U.S. central time (-6 GMT) and alone in the dual-boxing.com channel if anyone wants to chat.

[Morganti]

Went through about 25 systems tonight and found 8 wormholes, mostly c3, all heavily populated (one had like 12 POS's!!). Let me know if anyone finds an empty one.

[RobinGBrown]

Hey all.

The most difficult thing about me is that I'm unreliable. I can be on for days and days and then gone for three or four without warning, it's down to work and family issues which override game concerns. Even in the middle of a call to arms to defend the wormhole from an attack. I'm on GMT and generally have EVE open 7AM to 5PM - not always doing stuff but there semi-afk as I'm working. I can sometimes participate in group stuff in the evening but again it's unreliable.

My combat skills are severely limited as I've had almost no practice. I do the occasional L3 mission and my PVP experience coonsists of getting ganked twice. Conversely I've spent a fair bit of time mining and building up industrial assets. I'm also good at managing and planning.

The bulk of my toons are miners - I've got five Hulk pilots. All they'd need is some training to use the losec/nullsec mining crystals.

Three Hulk pilots have other skills: Orca + Freighter (and close to Jump Freighter/Rorqual), Orca + Freighter (and can train Jump Freighter), Dominix/Myrmidon w. lt/hv T2 drones

My oldest pilot, an Amarrian, actually has almost all the skills Morganti listed above - except mining. This is from the time when I thought using a Combat Recon would be good for mission running...

Every single one of the above can also fly Transport ships and thus Industrials too. Some of them have research, inventing, and manufacturing skills. I haven't done much manufacturing and no invention as I haven't worked out how to make it profitable yet. Plus PI skills dotted around.

Here's where it gets complicated as most of my remaining toons are skilled only at a single thing, and are on the same accounts as the above characters, or will be in the next few months. I currently have stuff planned for them but nothing that can't be changed.

A group of three Caldari pilots, one Drake/Cerberus, one Interceptor, and one Stealth Bomber I was vaguely thinking of using in Faction Warfare, they're currently training to Drakes.
A couple of toons with little more than salvaging/basic fitting/hauling skills.
A CEO toon - Dr Sirius of Cybernetic Legion - has skills to form an alliance if required...
A dedicated ice miner training towards mining skills
A dedicated PI/invention character with Transport ships
Dominix/Myrmidon w. T2 sentry drones pilot
Gallente Interceptor pilot

Most of my characters also have secondary skills where I've pursued an idea that didn't work out for me.

[Morganti]

Blah, blown up and podded while hunting a wormhole. :(

[Morganti]

Since we can't seem to find any empty wormhole space would folks be interested in going to 0.0 instead? Souca has a lead on a system we can rent for 1bil a month. Any other space available (preferably free!)?

[RobinGBrown]

Personally I'm really loathe to rent 0.0 space as it seems like giving money away.

I found an interesting thread on the forums re unoccupied wormholes (link goes to relevant post):

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1479449&page=1#8

[Morganti]

I agree with your assessment about paying for 0.0 space completely. I'm not even overly excited about paying for WH space, which can be bought on the forums also. The only thing I can say to this is: everyone get to looking for a WH for us! If you can't pilot a cov ops then scan the classified forums for a good deal and bring it back to us here. If you can pilot cov ops spend some time every day looking around and see what you can find. A class3 is still what we're looking for, and one with a static 0.0 would probably be best (static means it always has an entrance from somewhere in 0.0, but it can also spawn entrances to lowsec and hisec).

I'd personally like to get into a c4 or c5 once everyone gets comfortable, but I bow to Meeo's experience and will stick with starting in a c3.

[Grondir]

YES! C5 TITAN PRODUCTION!! :) But we probably should start smaller lol

[Meeo]

Personally I'm really loathe to rent 0.0 space as it seems like giving money away.

I found an interesting thread on the forums re unoccupied wormholes (link goes to relevant post):

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1479449&page=1#8


Could always join a 0.0 Corp, instead of trying to rent space if it comes down to that.