Enhancement shamans in BG

[David]

Since I`m playing my shamans with paladin team again I was wondering if I could do some pvp at 85.

Has anyone tryed to play holy paladin + 4 enhancement shamans? Or just a pack of enhancement shamans in general?

Don`t have the time to level 4 dk`s and I just like my shamans :-)

Focus is BG`s, not arena.

Just don`t want to start gearing and spending money on it and it turns out that my team gets melted like nothing :cool:

[Firstcow]

Do enhancement shamans have a way to get out of the infinite roots you have to put up with from mages?

[David]

Earthen PowerRank 2Your Earthbind Totem's pulses have a 100% chance to also remove all snare effects from you and nearby friendly targets.

Don`t know if it gets you out of nova`s and such but it sure helps against slows.

[Firstcow]

You might want to verify if it removes roots before you go all the way. The main reason so many boxers use DKs now is because 4xDG counters roots quite well and the DK dmg is now viable, unlike in Wrath.

[xtobbenx]

I'm also looking into Enhancment shammys now days. and have been going through specces etc I did try 4 enhancment shammys in wrath (bad geared tho) but it worked out quite well even with poor setup then.

Their Earth Bind used to remove all snears including all kind od roots, but then blizzard have changed so much around this kind of mechanics so atm i actualy think that they dont, but If they do, then this is for sure a really strong combo since they are basicly unroot/snearabol, unfearabol, and they cant really die in the first 30 sec with wolfs and instand heales up with a healer looking after the focused target ether. And there is nothing wrong with their dps for sure, tho i think that most of their instant cast will be going to be used for heals and not bolts, atleast in the begining. With a clear setup to show when all shammys got melee storm and 4x heal on same target, this should be a quite strong combo. Might get some mana trubble in longer fights.

[Ualaa]

Snares aren't Roots.

While rooted, you'll only DPS those in melee with you.
Still you have some healing, and a bit of ranged DPS.
Mages are annoying, they won't necessarily kill you.. but they'll prevent you from killing others too.

If you're doing BG's, I'd think about the Fire Elemental glyph, for 5 minute Fire Elementals.
Haven't really done much Enhancement play.
But it's worth a shot.

Rogues are also annoying.. sap one member of your team.
And then switch to another member and sap..
Buggers.

Still you have Tremors on round-robin.
Which negates Fear, the other thing that sucks for boxers to deal with.
That is a huge boost in favor of Shammies vs almost anything else.

[Toned]

Season 7 during the Beastcleave Era it removed roots, but was nerfed after MLG dallas ><

[David]

Still thinking about a setup and including a warrior. They seem to be waaay to powerfull:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/865498-Warrior-damage-out-of-control

How about holy paladin, 3dk`s and warrior?

Or maybe very out of the box, 4 warriors with a paladin/druid?

[Ualaa]

Holy Pally can provide Freedom to one toon.
Can also cleanse a lot of stuff off of your toons.

A DK doesn't provide a lot of buffs that Enhance does not already have.
But Death Grip is huge; it brings someone into the kill zone, even when you're rooted.
As I'm gearing up my 4xDK/Pally team, mages with freeze or hunters with entrapment die with 2-3 pulls and then the root effect is gone fairly fast; the inability to move is not a drawback at all.

Warriors have spell reflect.
And put out sick damage, for a very brief burst on a typical cooldown (2-3 mins).
If you want to go with them...
Play to their strengths.
I'd see them as similar to the Feral Druids... in that root sucks, but when you're on something it is dead.




Lots of combinations.
A general choice is Ranged vs Melee.

Ranged generally don't survive too well with melee on them, especially cleave classes.
But ranged can attack from further back and run away much easier.
Depending where you're pvping; ranged cannot force range play in a tower/bunker in AV.

Melee generally destroy most ranged classes, if you close to melee.
They might be rather vulnerable to spell cleave; my Ferals did not like 5x Demo Warlocks with Immolation Aura, Hellfire and Felguard-Cleave.
My DK's have AoE attacks, and would kill the Warlocks as quickly as the Warlocks kill them, not to mention things like Mind Freeze, Strangulate and a Healer.

Snare (to a lesser degree) and Root (more so) are an issue to be aware of as melee.
Either you need something that can break Root on demand.
Ret pallies could with self cleanse, via talents.
Ferals cannot anymore, but powershifting use to do this.
DK's are as weak in escaping as others, but Death Grip others to them.
Even if you cannot escape the root, if they cannot kill you, it is just a breather for everyone.
Anyway, this is one major issue for melee.

Second issue is AoE fear.
But that is something ranged have to worry about too.
Tremor is a party-wide trinket.
Lichborne is 10 seconds of immunity every 2 minutes.
Warriors go Berserk (forget the ability name) for a short duration.
An IWT Key, with movement afterwards (to break the movement from IWT) is a recovery tool.
Plus we have the trinket.
And diminishing returns.

[David]

The reason I`m looking into a nice setup is where I can have a real MAIN char. One to farm achievements and follow quests since the story is sweet now.

I played with my shamans for a short while now and it seems that I`m really burned out on pve with a box team. It`s new places with the same don`t stand in the green stuff events. Difference that you have to move out now while you outhealed it in wotlk.

One of the best, if not the best box experience for me is leveling my 4 rets in pvp. I just loved bashing skulls. Untill I reached 80 and getting rolled, guess the gear difference is big like beeing discussed in a different topic atm. So my focus for a box team is PVP.

My characters with achievements worth continuing are:
Mage:4600points and some fancy mounts and such
Paladin: 4000points and 2 legend weapons
Warrior: old tbc char, has like 25-30 factions on exalted or atleast revered and only 1600points
Yea, maybe i`m a bit picky, I know that ain`t much points compaired to others hehe

Mage is 80, warrior 75 and the pala is 85. Only reason I played the pala because he had the sexy feats while hating every bit about him.

Right now I`m thinking of going either:
4 warrior and a druid or shaman healer from lvl1 and replacing one warrior at 75 with my fancy one:o, think druid because he can be the guy with the remote controlling the warriors in stealth and only popping out when heals are needed, besides that the speed in forms helps TONS with kiting people on him while warriors take them down. Not sure if druids can do offensieve dispels these days to remove roots.
This setup seems like it could be a LOT of fun, esspecially with all 3 warrior specs beeing decend in packs. Think with the healing on warriors these days they could work.
Guess I have to swap out the druid or shaman healer at 85 with the paladin because he still is the better healer.

Second choice is leveling 4 dk`s and at 75 replacing one or adding the warrior. Then at 85 add the paladin. The warrior adds sick dps, the 10% healing debuff + he benefits from DG as well

Maybe a small third option: 3 warriors, 1 dk and a healer, the DK for atleast one grip and his slows and silences

For me personally I feel like the warrior at 75 is something I should add to my team, he has by far most time invested and the reps he has with outland factions are quite a grind for other chars.

I don`t feel like I need an out of the box setup, I`m willing to try something out. A 4 warrior with a healer setup sounds like a LOT of fun in bg`s(while leveling) on paper but in reality it can suck with boxing.

[Ualaa]

A resto druid can powershift out of roots, just by being resto.
No talents necessary.
All healer classes can do defensive dispels, to remove things from your own team; I believe druids will have magic (talented) and curse + poison (base).
The first couple of tiers of Feral would be available for +30% movement in Cat Form.



Given the toons you have, and would like to continue (Mage, Paladin, Warrior), I would personally go 4x DK + 1x Pally (Holy); but 3x DK, 1x Warrior and 1x Pally could work too, and wouldn't be that different.

Drive with the Pally (Healer) in PvP.
In PvE/Heroics, if you feel like doing them or pursuing acheivements, drive with Warrior (Tank) or if you go 4x DK's then respec/dual-spec them Blood and drive with the Healer still.

Mosg2's Manifesto basically lists everything you need for the 4x DK + Healer team.
There are even two manifesto videos.

[David]

Yea I ran into on yesterdya on youtube, I think the second. He talked about maybe replacing one dk with a warrior for the dps, I do think that the 10% healing debuff adds another +. The 3 of 4 dk group looks the most like my old ret team I guess, which was great.

[Ualaa]

I don't like the changes to my Ferals.
Their damage was buffed a bit, which was the wrong approach.
The removal power-shifting and bersker fear immunity, killed the fun.

So I've started the Pally + 4x Frost DK team.
Substituted the Pally (then a Priest, and back again to the Pally) in, in the place of one of the DK's.




With the starter PvP set on both sets of toons.
Plus enough honor to buy one pvp piece on the Pally.
Nothing but the base 1200 res blue crafted set on the DK's (who are using quest iLV 319 Axes)...

I've primarily run AV's, to gear up.
Did 22 yesterday, winning 8 of them.

But I can see the potential for the team.
Anytime the focus is on the DK's and not on the Pally...
Which is a surprising amount of the time.
Well it doesn't go good for the horde, as long as the Pally has mana.
Sure the DK's go down shortly after the mana has ended, but they invariably take down many more horde.
Even a horde DK or Warrior with 40k more health, so a lot more gear, lasts only 3 or 4 GCD's of attacks.
The majority of opponents are dead on the 2nd GCD of attacks (not counting Death Grip as a GCD of attacking).

The best AV... someone suggested we defend Belinda, and give the horde the same shit they give us, when they defend Galv.
Six players actually entered Belinda's area, so I joined with my team.
A bunch of horde came in, so I did Army of the Dead x4.
And we killed ten or so that came in immediately.
And then I deathgripped in another ten or so, that over the course of a few mins kept poking their head around the corner.... that was rather fun.
We ended that AV up 585 resources to 0, winning through attrition (with several whiners complaining there were no tanks or healers for Drek).
Twenty one minutes, not that long of an AV either.

A typical AV seems to be...
5-10 deaths total, across my five toons.
Anywhere from 50 to 200 HK's each, with a mean around 90 or so.

Most of the time, I go directly to IB graveyard.
Cap that, then support the area between Tower Point and Iceblood Tower.
A group of five coordinated horde totally destroyed me, twice in the same AV.
They did the cyclone on the Pally healer.
And took the team out relatively fast.
That's probably what arena would be like, as a very undergeared team against a coordinated team.
Cannot win them all.




After day one.

The Paladin got her second piece of PvP gear, which gives the set +400 Res bonus.
She's human, so did not bother with the pvp trinket.

Meanwhile the Gnomettes...
They figured they knew all about PvP... run into AV, cap the graveyard and try to burn the two towers... then lose and get their 60 honor.
They were ecstatic, when they won the first AV; and actually won four in a row.
And they have their first shiny, which they were rather excited about.
They have PvP trinkets now.

Pally has jumped to 1700 Res and the DK's are around 1500 Res.

[Sephice]

Has anyone tryed to play holy paladin + 4 enhancement shamans? Or just a pack of enhancement shamans in general?

Not now, but i want try it, but as 2H

WTF???

Yes, i know i cant use LL and other things, but with the changes on Windfury i hope i can make as boxer ( and only as boxer ) really heavy burst and with 8 wolfes its really cool.

From thge equip i but evenrything in Dex Primary and in Crit as secondary

i think / hope they can burst really, really hard ;)

[Noids]

Adding an enhancement sham to 3 DKs would actually be a really nice idea I reckon. The snare removal from totem would be awesome with the added burst of the enh and extra fear protection. Would also get the 10% atk pwr buff...

...leaves to level shammy

[Feehza]

I don't like the changes to my Ferals.
Their damage was buffed a bit, which was the wrong approach.
The removal power-shifting and bersker fear immunity, killed the fun.

So I've started the Pally + 4x Frost DK team.
Substituted the Pally (then a Priest, and back again to the Pally) in, in the place of one of the DK's.




With the starter PvP set on both sets of toons.
Plus enough honor to buy one pvp piece on the Pally.
Nothing but the base 1200 res blue crafted set on the DK's (who are using quest iLV 319 Axes)...

I've primarily run AV's, to gear up.
Did 22 yesterday, winning 8 of them.

But I can see the potential for the team.
Anytime the focus is on the DK's and not on the Pally...
Which is a surprising amount of the time.
Well it doesn't go good for the horde, as long as the Pally has mana.
Sure the DK's go down shortly after the mana has ended, but they invariably take down many more horde.
Even a horde DK or Warrior with 40k more health, so a lot more gear, lasts only 3 or 4 GCD's of attacks.
The majority of opponents are dead on the 2nd GCD of attacks (not counting Death Grip as a GCD of attacking).

The best AV... someone suggested we defend Belinda, and give the horde the same shit they give us, when they defend Galv.
Six players actually entered Belinda's area, so I joined with my team.
A bunch of horde came in, so I did Army of the Dead x4.
And we killed ten or so that came in immediately.
And then I deathgripped in another ten or so, that over the course of a few mins kept poking their head around the corner.... that was rather fun.
We ended that AV up 585 resources to 0, winning through attrition (with several whiners complaining there were no tanks or healers for Drek).
Twenty one minutes, not that long of an AV either.

A typical AV seems to be...
5-10 deaths total, across my five toons.
Anywhere from 50 to 200 HK's each, with a mean around 90 or so.

Most of the time, I go directly to IB graveyard.
Cap that, then support the area between Tower Point and Iceblood Tower.
A group of five coordinated horde totally destroyed me, twice in the same AV.
They did the cyclone on the Pally healer.
And took the team out relatively fast.
That's probably what arena would be like, as a very undergeared team against a coordinated team.
Cannot win them all.




After day one.

The Paladin got her second piece of PvP gear, which gives the set +400 Res bonus.
She's human, so did not bother with the pvp trinket.

Meanwhile the Gnomettes...
They figured they knew all about PvP... run into AV, cap the graveyard and try to burn the two towers... then lose and get their 60 honor.
They were ecstatic, when they won the first AV; and actually won four in a row.
And they have their first shiny, which they were rather excited about.
They have PvP trinkets now.

Pally has jumped to 1700 Res and the DK's are around 1500 Res.

I did the opposite thing: i switched from pala to priest. i think i will suck a lot with my priest when i reach level 85.
i hope the mobility and anti-cc-utilities will pay off when i gain a lot of resilience

What was your reason to change back to paladin ualaa?

[Ualaa]

For me the choice was Priest or Paladin.
Priest = more offense.
Paladin = more defense.

Pretty sure the healer is the focused kill target, for any opposition with brains.
And that the Pally will last a lot longer.




Priest gets a healer with more offense; mana drain, dispel magic, etc

Mass Dispel, allows the DK's to almost automatically kill the initial target; Pally/DK's cannot prevent a bubble/pain suppression or similar mechanic on a kill target.

Priest does have healing after they die.

For many other teams, I'd love the priests mobility... but I don't want my healer in the middle of the DK's.




Paladin gets a healer with more survivability/defense.
Heavier armor, a shield, Divine Protection and Bubble.
I like the macro-ability of the Pally...

Two macros:
/castsequence [target=focus,exists] holy shock, holy shock, holy shock, word of glory

/castsequence [target=focus,exists] flash of light, flash of light
/cast [target=focus,exists] holy shock

If I set a focus, that puts out immense mindless healing.
Without a focus, I use mouse-over healing for the Grid frame.

[David]

Leveling my 4 dk`s now, might add the warrior at 74 and at 85 the paladin. It`s just crazy.

So far lvl 59 and closing in on 60. It`s just roflstomping, grip oneshot, thanks for the flag.

Hope it works that nice at 85 as well.

Seriously, I`m rofling irl behind my computer.

[Ualaa]

I don't have even half of the honor purchased items.
Did start with the starter PvP crafted set on both the DK's and Pallies.
Using a iLV 318 blue quest weapon, not the Conquest one yet.

The DK's basically rape hordies.
I can die to 5-6 coordinated and geared players, still do that occasionally.
But in random mass pvp's (AV weekend), I can also kill twelve players by myself.
The team rocks at 85th.

Most BG's, my Pally ends up top five in healing for both sides.
My toons combine for 5-10 deaths with an average of two each maybe.
I'm almost always top six or seven for HK's on alliance, and most BG's I'm top five for either faction.

We had an AV (tonight) where neither side did many objectives.
Both captains and 1-2 towers I believe.
But an attrition win (alliance which is odd for an attrition win).
I had 345 HK's on my Pally, 1 death on each DK none on the Pally; no team wipes, but did survive and rez each DK once.

[David]

Well as expected, once I get to 60 I`m lowest in the bracket and I get rolled. Maybe some questing is in order then?

[Toned]

I have an 85 paladin sitting at well over 3k resil waiting to heal my dks, but i'm liking the priest so much I might stick with that. The mobile healing of the priest is ridiculous. Also paladin's are too easy to control now days, and the BUBBLE LOL only last like 6 sec now :(. I'm running disc, but will probably go holy for arenas till I get gear just for the spirit redemption.

[Ualaa]

Either works, its a preference.

The Priest automatically dies early in arena.
At least until they have a lot of gearing done.
The Spirit of Redemption absolutely rocks, free healing that cannot be interrupted directly (just Cyclone a DK, as far as I know).

The Pally has the bubble mechanic, making them a poor first target for many compositions.
But undergeared, they will die very quickly too.

With gearing, I'm sure both will rock.
My Pally is 2.8k res, almost full honor gear now.
That's over 80% melee mitigation, if you add armor + resiliency; she can take a beating, but smart hordies in BG's do the chain fear/cyclone/horror, etc.